How To Install PID Upgrade ECM Synchronika & Profitec Pro 700

[@mwrocca42]

I just performed my upgrade using this video as a guide. It couldn’t have been easier! There were no surprises once I dug in to the machine, and all was said and done in about 45 minutes. If you own either of these machines, spring for the upgrade! You won’t be disappointed. Thanks again to Todd, Mark, and the whole crew at WLL!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Mike, Gotta love the extra steam power! You are welcome and thanks for the comment.

[@mpoche50]

Just performed my upgrade using the videos to drain my boilers and the PID upgrade! Went like clockwork! Your videos are awesome! Keep up the good work!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi M, Thanks for the comment! Happy to hear your upgrade went well. How do you like the increase in steam power?

[@mpoche50]

It foams milk twice as fast as before. I also switched to the four hole tip so it really puts out the steam! Love it!

[@spearfish25]

Great video. Turned mine on, the boiler filled and the PID just keeps counting like it’s timing a shot. Turns out my older Pro 700 has a two pin connector rather than the 5 pin (with two wires). The old two pin connector has a guide that actually forces the wrong wire orientation, swapping the red and black wires. I had to pull the black plastic female 5 pin socket off the pins on the PID, then I could plug in my 2 pin male connector the correct way. Voila, PID works correctly.

[@nielsbo4648]

You can also just set the PID setting E2 to 10 which makes the PID think the temperature is 10 degree lower than measured. With that I got the 2 bar pressure on my "old" Profitec 700.

[@vaska3587]

Life pro tip - you can turn any screw driver into a magnetic tip screwdriver by striking the tip across a magnet as if you were trying to light a match. Do it about a dozen times and the tip of the screwdriver is now magnetized.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey V, thanks for the tip!

[@Wides911]

Hi what do you use for sealing ? Can I also use it to seal a heat exchanger that is screwed into the hot water boiler in addition to the copper seal or also seal solenoid valve fittings ? How pressure stable is it and to what extent good for use in contact with food (brewing water/drinking water) ?

[@hanzo52]

Possible to upgrade the ECM Technika IV to V with a pid ?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Hans, Well, most anything is possible given time and money. In this case it would be a DIY hack. As far as I know there is no ECM supported upgrade kit for that. Marc

[@hanzo52]

@@Wholelattelovepage The pid that is mounted on the Technika V wouldn't work if one cut a hole for it?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@hanzo52 Potentially. But a lot more than just the display to consider. NTC probe in boiler, relay, etc.

[@sultansultan7250]

Hi How i can change the power cable from EU to UK .from inside the machine. ECM SYNCHRONIKA

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi ss, I'd consult a professional for changing out the cable. Other simpler option is an adapter to change from EU to UK style plug.

[@petermork9641]

This is a really great tutorial. Thanks guys!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi PM, You are welcome and thank you for the comment!

[@setheroth28092]

Hello, my Syncronika (Bought 2022) came with the upgraded PID. It seems the old PID had a capability that the new PID doesn’t - Simultaneous boiler heating. Is there a PID that will let me reach 2BAR - and - allow dual boiler heating? Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Seth, No Synchronikas I'm aware of were ever sold in North America with simultaneous boiler heating - meaning the elements can be energized in both boilers at the same time. That would require 30amp power service, different power cord and more. It's been awhile since these were first introduced but I vaguely recall there may have been a mode which switched heating between the boilers from the start of heating. Machines now can set priority to one boiler or the other and the. Almost always the brew boiler first but that setting can be changed in technical section of PID programming

[@rcpmac]

Hey Mark or Todd, Can I add the PDF to an older Synchronica that doesn't have one? Do you sell that kit?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi r, You have a Synchronika that does not have a PID? If so that's a machine I'm not familiar with. As far as I know Synchronika's have only ever been a PID machine. If your Synchronika does have a PID but it's the old one with lower steam pressure/temp we may still have some upgrade kits available. Best best is to contact our tech support directly for current availability: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us

[@KimMoonbmwmoonie]

can this upgrade be added to an ECM Casa V? I know the Profitec GO has one and its the same machine right?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi KM, Thanks for the question. Unfortunately it cannot. This PID upgrade is for dual boiler Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika only. The ECM Casa V does not have a PID temp sensor in the boiler and there's no provision for one.

[@KimMoonbmwmoonie]

@@Wholelattelovepage then how does the Profitec Go incorporate it?

[@arvidbjorkstrom6554]

Can you also put the Synchronika PID on the Profitec Pro 600? I really like the silver look of the the Synchronica one =)

[@jackpast]

Great video, guys. I’ll assume the orange light wasn’t on after you put the PID out of fill mode as there wasn’t enough water in the reservoir?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jack, Yes and thank your for the comment!

[@jesussantos4783]

Great tutorial guys! Is there a PID kit for an Expobar Office Level? Mine is overheating intermittently (the pressure safety valve activates) and I belive it is the pressure stat. Maybe with a PID I solve the problem. Any advise? Thanks.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JS, No PID kit approved by the manufacturer for aftermarket install in an Office Lever. IMO you should replace the pressure stat. If in the US, our tech support can help diagnose the issue and get you the right part. Contact here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us

[@purnsey]

I have a Synchronika with the old version of the PID. I need to do a descale. Can I ask a couple of questions: 1. Does the old PID have the fill function? 2. If not, then after I've drained the boilers and want to fill them with descaling solution, do I just remove and tape a sensor from each of the boilers, turn the machine on, and then pull down brew lever/open up steam and hot water wands until solution comes out of each of these. Then switch off, and reattach sensors. Sound right?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Matt, Thanks for the question. I do not believe the older machines/pid's have the fill function. I will forward your question to our service manager first thing in the morning and get his advice. I'm fairly certain his first response will be dual boiler machines should only be descaled by pro techs. It's the same sort of response I get from auto repair shops when I tell them I'm going to do my own brakes or replace some tie rod ends. They lighten up a bit when I tell them how I was rebuilding muscle car motors back in the 1970's. When we take in DB machines for descaling the boilers are removed for descaling with other parts removed as needed based on inspection. There's a risk of scale being dislodged and affecting (plugging) other components during descaling. That risk depends on use level, source water hardness, etc. At the moment, I advise against running descaling solution through the machine. But have no idea of your skill level. If you are savvy enough to get descaler into the boilers without running through the other hydraulic systems and then get the descaler out that's another story. I'm curious as to why you think you need to descale. If the boiler needs descaling you may need maintenance in other areas as well. With DB machines our advice is to always treat/filter water so scale doesn't happen in the first place. Sorry, not preaching and I know good filtration costs but proper water quality prevents scale and protects your investment.

[@purnsey]

Thanks heaps @@Wholelattelovepage for this reply. I've had my Synchronika for 2 years. It's had only ever had filtered water through it (machine plumbed in with in-line Brita C150 Finest filter). Despite my area having soft water (50mg/L ≡ 2.9gpg), I noticed I have some light scale on the E61 discharge point. Last night I pulled the mushroom out and it had scale buildup. Nothing crazy (far less than in your video kzbin.info/www/bejne/anmYaISJerJ3ntUm20s), and nothing that a 50g/L citric acid solution at boiling point didn't remove in 15min. There was also a fair bit of calcium buildup in the threads, interestingly in the same place as your video kzbin.info/www/bejne/anmYaISJerJ3ntUm23s. I've ordered an analytical-grade water-hardness testing kit to check things (something doesn't add up), but I'm thinking that I'd rather descale now while the scale level is low, than let it get worse. I live in a rural area, so transporting the machine to a technician is a pain. To minimise blockages from scale flakes, I'm going to remove the steam and hot water wands. So, my main question was, how do I refill the boilers after draining them? But I figure it's no different than when I received the machine. I put the water tank in and the machine automatically filled the boilers. If for some reason, that doesn't work, do you think, for the older Synchronika, that your removing a probe (kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2STk5dml86lndkm13s) will do the trick? UPDATE: I did the descale. Everything went well. Boilers automatically refill if empty when machine switched on. Thanks for your videos: they really help!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Happy to hear the descaling went well! Spoke with our service manager. Machines only do the fill thing in PID when brand new out of the box. Unless reset which requires going deeper into PID controller they wont do that again. Would def check your water hardness and consider filtration based on results.

[@schh486]

Im in the exact same situation with my synchronica here. I'm using the filter from BWT you recommended so im very upset im getting scalbuildup. I thought that would not be necessary with the filter :( My water hardness is 5 so ive set the filterhead to 3 as per the manual. Have i done something wrong? Im pretty upset over this. Ive sent a water sample for analysis I am getting my machine to service tomorrow because of leaking from the steamboiler and i can see what i think i scale around the leakage. It is a pain in the arse and. I asked the tech to clean out the boilers aswell but he seems to think that this wont be necessary and says he only needs to clean the pipes / other plumbing wich makes me nervous. I need to check with him again. I also ordered the upgraded PID but ECM didnt seem to realize i needed the safetyvalvle. Ive had my machine also for two years and im pretty uspest i cant seem to trust the filter. Have done something wrong or have you any similar experiences. Thanks for great videos!

[@haraldo.2406]

As usual excellent and detailed instruction video. Thanks Mark and Todd. One question: Does there exist an upgrade version of the PID for the Profitec Pro 500 (what features would this upgrade have) and will a replacement work similar to Pro 700? Thanks in advance Mark

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Harald, Thanks for the comment and question. Unfortunately no PID upgrade for the Pro 500. Running the heat -exchange boiler hotter in the 500 would affect brew temps. Sorry!

[@markv7899]

Theoretically can this PID display be fitted onto other machines? IE a linea mini? This is the best looking display/shot timer out there and a few machine wizards have added shot timers etc to the lmlm but none look as good as an ecm display

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MV, In theory any thing is possible given the skills, knowledge and $$

[@amih777]

What is the brand of the sealant you are using there?

[@H.sadoon]

Great video. Can I install this on a pro 600 ?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi, Thanks for the question. No need to! The Pro 600 came stock with the upgraded PID for higher steam pressure etc.

[@gilochas]

Great video!!! Do you guys know a way to install a PID on the profitec pro 500? Thanks!!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi gilochas, Thanks for the comment and question. Newer Pro 500s since late last fall now have PID. I spoke with Profitec at SCA in April about a retrofit PID for older 500's. Unfortunately, they have no plans to offer one as there's no place to mount a PID.

[@amih777]

I have a question for Todd/Mark - are you familiar with a situation that this Gicar PID overshoots by 3-4 F? In particular, it overshoots only with the steam boiler temp. Brew boiler is fine. I have reset the settings.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AZ, Not certain I understand. Are you saying you set the steam boiler to a temp and it heats 3-4F beyond your set temperature? Marc

[@amih777]

Exactly. Even if I lower it by 10 degrees it will still overshoot by 2-4.

[@askay2k]

Hi Marc, I have the Synchronika, made in Feb 2021. The OPV on the brew boiler is different to all the Synchronika on this show. Mine is more like what's on Rocket (no flat screwdriver adjustment). Is that what ECM doing now?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Yes

[@joakimolsson1024]

I guess sealing tape will do fine for the pressure valve?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JO, Thanks for the question. We prefer using an NSF approved liquid thread sealant. But Teflon tape can work. Just be careful you don't get bits of tape into the boiler which could plug other machine components.

[@joakimolsson1024]

What steam tip do you prefer for this machine?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Joakim, I have the stock 4 hole on a Pro 700 in the studio.

[@ralimacry]

since when the synchronika comes with PID upgrade?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi rafy, Thanks for the question. We started shipping Synchronikas with new PID in mid-April 2018.

[@ralimacry]

The boilers needs to be empty?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

rafy barrera yes. Otherwise risk water everywhere and the electronics and water don’t play well together ;)

[@daniely9310]

Can we add this to pro500?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Daniel, Not in a manufacturer sanctioned way. Big problem is the 500 is a heat exchange machine so running the boiler hotter will increase the brew temp.

[@alsharef]

I have UK version dose it works?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Fahad, I would assume so but cannot be certain as I do not have a UK version to test. I'd contact the retailer and/or manufacturer directly.

[@MrBertneuman]

Great Vid ... "Smutz" ? Laughed my ass off. But ... I understood exactly what you meant.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

One of those highly technical terms!

[@amih777]

Grande Todd!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AZ, Thanks for the comment!!!

[@GL-rn6vp]

Awsome👍🏼

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Gonzo, Thanks for the comment!

[@trans24796]

Can you pleaseee do a comprehensive video on how to add a PID to a gaggia classic???

[@alsharef]

I have problem after I finish installing the steam pipe and turn it on the steam leaking from joint any suggestions!!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi FA, Usually just need to tighten more to stop leaking. If still leaking after that, disassemble the joint and make sure both side of the compression fitting are clean and reassemble.