How to Level and Gain stage your AX8 and AXE-FX Presets (All 3 parts)

[@LeonTodd]

This should be mandatory viewing for anyone who buys one of these.

[@austinbuddy]

Hi Leon, thanks, this is high praise coming from you, as you make excellent Fractal videos everyone too should see. Too many people wrestle with the machine needlessly because they don't comprehend the gain staging and leveling aspect -- glad you agree the video was helpful, was a low budget but hopefully high-impact production! Cheers!

[@Tabrez79]

@@austinbuddy Great Video, thx Austin. Leon, ur vids are awesome too. Thank you guys. Where should I place my smartphone to calculate the db levels accurately? Am tryin to dial in presets for live using your 98db suggestion. Thx!!

[@Django61]

An update to the last post. After following the steps in your video, I have it figured out It is sounding great. And the levels are at -12, like you said they would be. Thx again

[@santana2420]

Great. A video teaching how to eq presets and managing signal Flow through the row it would be marvelous

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Enjoying the channel! For the uninitiated I humbly offer a directly related point on something that affected my attempts to gain stage and loudness match for many, many years... Peak meters vs. VU meters... Won’t make much difference on a highly compressed sound, but it makes all the difference on dynamic clean tones. Peak meters for maximizing signal to noise on input. VU (or better yet, loudness metering) for level matching. We hear in averages, not peak. No coincidence the Axe-FX uses a VU meter downstream. Peace out.

[@austinbuddy13]

Yes -- -12db is the "average" to shoot for, and you are so right about dynamic sounds. A clean sound can spike a transient pretty high on a meter very fast!

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Indeed! For Ableton users, they now have rms and peak displayed with dual colors in the daw's native meters. I really like that the Axe-FX has built in VU's calibrated to -20dBFS. They know what they are doing for sure!

[@rockstarjazzcat]

p.s. Picked up 700 Naked Amps XL/XL+ TonePack last night! Installing now!

[@ralphshaw9758]

Yeah this made my ax8 (running direct ) live sound so much better ! Thanks!

[@SukeCerulo]

Thank you for this tutorial! Exactly what I needed after finally getting on board with an AX8

[@adriangoleby]

Thanks for the tutorial. Loved the long sigh at the start. Hope you're doing okay :)

[@Cactustone]

Great video! I didn't know about keeping the Output 1 knob at 11:30 on my Axe II. Also, for some reason, I never thought to set my -12s using my DAW. I was using the VU meters, and even though I was hitting the 2/3 line, the difference is huge! Now I have more headroom. Hopefully I'll notice the difference at stage volumes with the Output 1 being set optimally, too. Cheers!

[@roncseak9061]

Just wanted to say thanks so much Austin for the video's cant tell you how helpful they have been as i'm learning how to better use the ax8 to its full potential..Again thanks so much will be subscribing to your page..

[@VintageModernRemixes]

Great tutorial, thanks!

[@wyzyguy726]

Wanted to thank you again.. got the Axe FX II set to unity, a patches set up at the right Db & the output levels are all the same:::

[@kevin_A613]

Thanks, this was amazing and concise high-yield content. New sub earned.

[@FrankSteffenMueller]

Awesome video. Thanks man!

[@Django61]

Great video Austin Buddy. I have been using the factory presets since I got the AX8, just started learning to build my own this week. The unit arrived set on +4db. I had always read / been told that my mackie mixer, and equipment should be set to-10. I’m not grasping the input level adjustment. And if I am understanding it, I should turn output 1 to max, and leave the input level of my interface fully counter clockwise? And if I do, my DAW meters should read -12db? Any info would be appreciated. Thx for taking the time to make these videos. Very informative and helpful.

[@MrJaydeep777]

I am equally confused! My AX8 is set at factory levels and turning output 1 all the way up is way to hot!!

[@wyzyguy726]

Thanks for putting this together.., very concise

[@blasher4]

Ok so I have Logic. The axe FX is plugged into iMac. The sound goes out to two studio monitors. Someone help me optimize all of the i/os, global, etc….I’ve had this setup for years but never thought to start from square 1 and maybe discover a better path. Any help would be great!,

[@MartinArchea]

Thank you for the tutorial!

[@gustavoolaizbarragan3985]

best video ever OMG

[@cy8919]

AB, I don't have a DAW with a VU meter. The only one I am able to use right now is the AX8 front panel. It's kind of hard to see when it averages -12db. I noticed all the factory presets touch the line on the VU ( 0db ). Is that going to be too loud?

[@austinbuddy13]

The older legacy Fractal product software editors didn't have the VU meter leveling option. If you are the some volume as the factory amp preset, then you are doing it right. But use your ears, not just your eyes. Hope that helps!

[@ste528]

Great video, just what I was after!

[@skipbass2771]

hey buddy ,on the ax8 the volume is much lower then on my axe 3.ive seen how it say to raise up the volume on ax8 but i cant do it.you have a video showing that?i push the setup then it says to push pedal 2 i do it does nothing.i must be missing something here.should it be on +4?i dont know what its on cant get that far

[@austinbuddy13]

So, you need to do two things. On the hardware you have to find the SETUP>AUDIO page and there you will find you can switch output from a -10dbv settings to a +4db setting. Change it to +4. Next, I always dime my AX8's Out1 knob going into the playback system. See if that works.

[@adamnienke3633]

This should come with the AX8 haha thanks so much man

[@tindejavu]

Thank you for this wonderfull informations.

[@LucasVale]

Cool video! My utility VU is showing a different level than the DAW's main VU. Which one should I trust?

[@austinbuddy13]

If I understand you correctly, and your DAW input has NO Gain added to it from either the DAW software itself OR the interface hardware (not the Fractal), then trust the DAW sign level and keep it around -12db there "average" - make sense? Hope that helps. This video is almost 5 years old and the firmwares on the units have changed some of it, but the concepts/principles are the same.

[@LucasVale]

@@austinbuddy13 thank you! My utility VU always marks more dbs than the DAW VU (without any gain added), i dont know whats happening, any thoughts?

[@austinbuddy13]

@@LucasVale See if the utility VU has more than ONE scale type for the VU meter. I know in lLogic there are two types for example. Try to use the DbFS scale. You want the one where 0db (top) is basically the point where digital goes red and clipping happens.

[@LucasVale]

@@austinbuddy13 oh, thanks. I'll try it!

[@KYDY]

Hey your point #1 seems off at 14:20. You need to set input level on AX8 just the same as the Axe-Fx. AX8 manual page 5.

[@austinbuddy13]

Daniel: you are correct that this is a slide error that contradicts what first part of video says: I fixed this point earlier in the video (the first part that talks about it) but didn't get time to fix it on the summary slide before publishing -- voice over would have been laid down already. The AX8 does have a similar adjustment (but not identical) to Axe-Fx as early part of video suggested. Thank you Daniel for providing viewers with the AX8 manual's page reference on how to do it, Cheers!

[@KYDY]

Thanks for the great content you put out for the Fractal users! Cheers!

[@darkglass5463]

I have to set my instrument in to 100% for all of my guitars, do I have a faulty component?

[@austinbuddy13]

Input level software knob optimizes ADA conversion, and does not affect the volume at all (its not like a preamp). As long as you get to two or three of the yellow LED bar lit up on front panel when you play notes it should be fine. Don't sweat it if it doesn't hit the red top bar.

[@jimmygrant3151]

For some reason my input is barely tickling the red on the AX8, but when I load presets, they are coming in super hot -6 to 0 db. You said in the video that all the presets are matched at about -12 db. What am I doing wrong? My input value is 0 db, the outs are -10 db. But the signal is still coming in hot. SOLVED!!! Input gain from my audio device was set too high. I normalized the sound...now everything fine.

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Jimmy. First, the INPUT (red tickle) has nothing to do with the output signal. The is set by the Output 1 hardware knob. Just dial back the Hardware's output knob a little until you see a signal average of -12db on your DAW or console (some consoles vary - are you using analog?). Also, some presets will fool your ears - say a clean versus a meal amp - they may be the same technical volume in output db but look different on meters due to varying harmonic content. Google/Check out the Fletcher-Munson effect. Hope that helps!

[@jimmygrant3151]

@@austinbuddy13 Thank you Austin for taking the time. Yes, I simply turned down the knob on my devise (facepalm) and now everything is great. The AX8 is truly an amazing piece of work.

[@aceguitarmethod]

Excellent tutorial. Is there a way in the FracTool Batch Setter, or somewhere else, to adjust the Preset levels to -12db across numerous presets? I've not used the Batch Setter yet. Thanks and keep your videos coming. Very informative.

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Jim, thanks for the kudos. Remember, just because the LEVEL control is set to -12db inside a preset, it does NOT mean that the preset signals coming out at -12 db level -- that's why I did the video! If you move drive controls, master volumes, etc of an amp around, the LEVEl control has to be adjusted. The LEVEL control range that gets ALL the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack presets 9covering all 259 amp models) ranges from as low as -24db to as high as 0 db or even +2db . On the subject of FracTool, it's awesome, and yes, it can set LEVEL controls on an AXe-Fx but the prior version for AX8 could not, not sure if latest version does. You could use it to add or subtract a set amount of db for each preset, so it does it relative to all (meaning, if you said in batch Setter "reduce all presets in specified range by -2db, then presets that are are 14-db will become -16db, and presets set to -9db will become -11 db -- you get the idea). Always makes sure to back up everything in FractalBot before you use FracTool just in case something goes awry -- you can always go back that way. Saved me a time or two!

[@austinbuddy13]

When I say this above: " The LEVEL control range that gets ALL the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack presets 9covering all 259 amp models) ranges from as low as -24db to as high as 0 db or even +2db " -- that is in the context of the signal coming out is still showing up across ALL of them as -12db on a mixer -- even though in the preset itself the amp LEVEL ranges from -24db to 0 db -- this is the whole point of the video, so people grasp the concept. Don't look at the LEVEL in the amp block. Look at the VU meters in your unit and the output signal level going into a DAW to Level/gain stage all your presets. Else your presets will be all over the map level wise as you switch between them at a gig. Hope that's clear!

[@gitrbldr941]

Thank you this is awesome!

[@crispybell51]

ok, ran into the return of fx loop of my bogner shiva as recommended, at 100 percent output, sounded great alone but was lost in mix with the band at our gig, plugged it back into front of amp and sounded big and full again but dont like the idea of preamp in front of my modeling. Not sure what the deal is

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Chris, this video wasn't intended for doing the 4 cable method but if you find you are washing out live on stage then turn down the WET mix on your wet effects like delay and reverb. They may sound great at home but you can get lost in a mix on stage if the levels are high for those. Hope that helps!

[@WeareSouledOut]

Sorry was using my personal account, but you replied to this account a month or so ago saying to run one cable to the return of the effects send, that’s what I did but was really lacking in mids, and dark sounding compared to going into the front of amp

[@darkglass5463]

If I turned my axe to noon my house would crumble surely? Going through a head and 4 x 12 with the head it the Axe FX II's fx loop.

[@austinbuddy13]

Dark Glass is your overall output level set to -10 rather than +4db inside the unit - check that. Set it to -10db.

[@BrianMay0329]

Very basic question: Step 1, how do I get to the overall volume screen.

[@austinbuddy13]

on an Ax8 - at the main preset screen, just hit the page buttoning secession I think 3 or 4 times, then the VU screen for volume will appear and stay there even as you switch presets!

[@BrianMay0329]

@@austinbuddy13 thanks.

[@allanwilson8878]

Very helpful video thanks. Just an idea, it might be worth getting a pop filter for your mic - I’m hearing a ton of plosives. Either way, great info.

[@austinbuddy13]

Thanks Allan. For this video apparently I had the wrong mic channel strip from my UAudio loaded up -- sorry about that, that would explain your hearing plosives. The others (the Ax8 tutorials) should be good.

[@Samoxleyguitar]

I have a question regarding playing live and the 90db subject. To be clear you should always aim to have the -12 on the ax8 and then to make sure you have the correct tone play it through your speakers at 90db and adjust the bass/mid/treble to the sound you like? You’re not adjusting the -12db level when you’re trying out a speaker at 90db. Thanks for the help! Sam

[@austinbuddy13]

Sam: understand that the -12db is NOT a setting on the Ax8; it is a measurement from the output of the back of the Ax8 into a DAW or mixer of the signal. It confuses people, because they think in the AMP BLOCK that "-12db" means that ids the signal going out, but it is not,, because you could have the Master or Gain turned up and raise or lower the ACTUAL sound level even though the Amp Block LEVEL says -12db. Next, when you dial in sounds for playing on stage/live, try to play them at -92 db level which is "loud" and thus defeats Fletcher Munson effect (that can fool your ears if you dial in sounds lower then try to play them louder). At the -92 db in room level, dial in the gain, master, bass, middle, treble, presence to where you like the tone. Keep an eye on VU meters page on your AX8, try not to cross the bar to the left side of that screen. Use the LEVEL control on the AMP Block (or Knob A when in the VU screen, that also controls the Amp LEVEL!) to make sure the signal leaving your AXE8 is going into your DAW at around -12db average, a little less is okay, but don't be hitting at -6db or higher. If you dial it so the VU meters show your loudest chords (chugging) are just hitting that line that is 2/3 the way to there right on the VU meters, that is usually -12db output (without your front knob panel Out1 Main maxed -- AND make sure your nominal output set to -10dbv not +4dbv in the I/O AUDIO page. Hope that helps.

[@zaulkin]

This was super helpful, thanks!

[@WazzupWill]

Great Video Buddy. Quick question, you highlight the importance of dialing in tones at performance levels and suggest 92db. Is it possible to use decibel meter (SPL) to do this in a non-performance environment (home studio or practice space) or would the different environmental characteristics make this excercise useless? Would it even be a "Move in the right direction?"

[@tomaszkrzeminski7266]

Great Video Austin. What about gain level in apollo interface ? Should it be on 0 or higher?

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Tomasz: good question. Because I use Digital SPDIF inputs into my Apollo Twin or Apollo Quad, I don't have a gain control on them; the digital signal comes in pure from Axe-Fx or AX* SP/DIF, and I can't change it's level at the top of a channel (like you can with a mic preamp). If you are using XLRs t come from the AX8 or Axe-Fx into the Apollo's input channels, you want to use unity gain on those Apollo input channels for the Mic inputs, before adding any processing in the console. You should not need to add any "gain" at the console, since the signal coming should read -12db on the Apollo console faders. Also, (and this may confuse people and I don't want it to), separately, I keep my Apollo's main out (the big round physical knob on the Twin) set to output -12db. That has nothing to do with the Axe-Edit -12db level. My speakers are turned up way loud and I found the console setting at -12db gives me a nice monitoring volume capability with the faders up 100% or less than that, but I can make it super loud by raising the master outputs above -12db on the main Apollo out (round knob on the Twin) if I need to. The -12db here is pure coincidence. Remember, the Apollo's inputs should not change the Axe-Fx or AX8 tone at all unless you are adding mic preamp gain or plug-in processing like compressor (which is cool BTW, try a LA-3!). Hope that helps!

[@austinbuddy13]

Let me add: I set my Apollo main outsider at -12 db, but only because I use powered speakers (Atomic CLRs) and that way when I want to crank the fader up it gets stupid loud, like for band practice. But I usually monitor sounds "in the room" at between 82db and 92db according to a decibel meter.

[@lorenzo-agnes]

Super helpful thank you! Subscribed …

[@darrinhowse2399]

Are you doing this with the Output of the Axe FX or the SPDIF? I'm guessing Output 1. If so, how would I know if my USB audio interface is at unity gain and not affecting the setup, due to the gain knob on it? I think it's more reliable to use the meter on the Axe FX. Or is there a downside to this? Just got my Axe FX yesterday so I have newb questions.

[@jonnyscaramangamusic2042]

Thanks for this video. I just got an AX8 and this is really helpful. When I set my patches for live use, I want to have a solo boost that will be a few dB higher than my rhythm patches. Should I set that to average -12dB, and reduce all the other patches accordingly, or is it OK for that patch to average a few dB louder?

[@austinbuddy13]

Jonny Scaramanga Music -. You can set a solo boost for about 3db louder in your output mixer for a scene, that is okay but for the main use like rhythm and non solo stuff, use the average of -12db. The -12db still leaves some headroom so it should not clip.

[@maciejhanajczyk3084]

What about Output Mixer In Axe Edit. It has a Main Slider. Should it be at -12 db or flat zero?

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Maciej: good question. The output mixer (at the end of Axe-Edit) should be set to flat zero (which is the default). However, if you want to boost a preset Scene, for example for a solo part by 3db, that Output Mixer is a great place to do it (rather than the amp block) and you can do it by just a single Scene!

[@nunya8605]

i am running ver 10.01 there is no input output button on the AX8 where do i set this? is it after i hit shift then set up in i/o menu? Then where?

[@austinbuddy13]

I am not sure what your question is? "Input/Output" button? If you mean the +4 or -10 output setting, that should be found (if memory serves) in the I/O then AUDIO tab page on the AX8.

[@nunya8605]

@@austinbuddy13 Thx for the reply. Question was around in the beginning of the video where you describe setting your instrument output level. Under my I/O section in setup mode i have 5 tabs. 1 levels, 2 audui, 3 midi, 4 ctrl, 5 pedal. I am assuming your referring under levels is where it should be in the AX8 ?. in the levels tab i have IN 1 Instrument Pad, Out 1 Main nominal Level, IN 2 (FX RTN) nominal level and OUT 2 (FX Send). So under IN 1 (instrument PAD) my choices are 0.0 dB, 6 dB, 12 dB and 18 dB. Is this the correct location and should it be set to 0dB?

[@nunya8605]

My box just seems to be kind of flat when mimicking others settings so I found your video in hopes to having it set up correctly .

[@austinbuddy13]

@@nunya8605 need more information. what are you playing your AX8 through.playback signal chain and equipment?

[@nunya8605]

@@austinbuddy13 I am playing through 2 12 inch Headrush speakers and basically I duplicated the Leon Todd video AX8Basic video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3bMYmaBmpurers. Duplicated all he does in that video and it just sounds midrange no highs or clear but mid to bass. So I factory reset my box and was starting over and it just doesn’t have the clarity it use to. I also have a Line 6 Helix and the Headrush speakers sound great so at a loss. I was curious if the equalizer needed to be adjusted or something else BUT when I first bought it and applied purchased MOCH patches I never messed with the EQ it sounded great.

[@LordBransty]

Superb video. Very informative and essential viewing. I wonder if you could help me with a problem I have? I use the VU Meter to get a balance between clean and crunch presets. I do this in a rehearsal room at loud volumes, and try to get the output volumes to the bar - demonstrated around 11:20. I'll then store these settings, and reboot the AXE FX II to make sure they have saved. All good so far. However, a few days later, when gigging, I notice that the clean has dropped right down again, and is almost silent compared to crunch and clean presets. Have you heard of this before? Could it be synchronising somehow when plugged back into my PC at home? It is so frustrating on gig day. Any help would be appreciated immensely.

[@austinbuddy13]

Never heard heard of LEVEL drift like you describe. I will tell you your ears will fool you (Fletcher Munson effect) at lower volumes, so make sure in your rehearsal room you really are playing at the actual gig volume. Cleans are deceptive - they are the most accurate on your VU meter because of bass content and spike/transients. A Modern Metal sound (like an ENGK) waver all over the map on the VU meters while you watch. What I do is hit an :A" chord and watch the VU meters -- I kn ow it will go up and down but when ti settles does it hit right at the VU meter line? If not, I will turn up the LEVEL until it does that -- knowing it goes over the line a few db on first chord hit (due to bass content and harmonic complexity). Maybe have drummer play at same time you dial in. Just remember the video concepts -- get the CLEAN etc. at around -12db average, then boost loudness of the whole rig via the power amp or PA. Sorry couldn't be of more help.

[@LordBransty]

@@austinbuddy13 - Thanks for your reply. Really appreciated. All I can think of is that it's a corrupt preset. The other presets remain at the correct levels. Just the clean sinks without trace. I'll swap it out for another preset and see if that fixes the problem. On a personal level, I can see you take a lot of time answering people's queries. I'd like to thank you for this. Guys like you are like gold dust, and really appreciated. Season's greetings to you, and happy new year!

[@TheJordonKing]

I'm using the AX8 and this just doesn't seem right. Maybe it's because I'm not using digital out? I'm running AX8 to Focusrite XLR input 1. If I crank the Out 1 knob on the AX8 it clips with gain knob turned all the way down. I have nominal level set to +4. I've been running Out 1 at noon and then adjusting input gain on 6i6 to just under clipping and it sounds much better. Should i be running -10 into 6i6? I wouldn't think so.

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Jordan -- if you run your FocusRite preamp at -10db and follow the video steps, is your signal now coming in at -12db into your DAW or mixer? Treat it like a keyboard signal coming into the Focusrite, not a mic signal. Does that make sense? If you use the digital output, you want the analog XLR out signal to match what the digital output does.mirror same output strengths Note that. on Ax8, the Output1 actually controls BOTH the SP/DIF and XLR analog outs...not true on Axe-Fx. So you can turn down the Output1 some (less than max) if you use Focusrite at +4db and in theory the AX* tone will not change, but your Focurite preamp may be adding gain. Check it out and let me know if that makes sense?

[@austinbuddy13]

I'd add that the majority of comments I get about clipping into preamps are about the Focusrite Scarlett for some reason. Change the +4db to be -10db switch in your AX8 -- that will solve the issue, that's how I set mine.

[@austinbuddy13]

For some reason I keep seeing a line striking through what I wrote in prior reply??? To be clear to readers, in your audio page on the unit, select the -10 db output level, NOT the +4db level. Make sure to check and switch that if necessary. Then everything works just as video shows/says. This -10/+4db setting trips a lot of people up; in fact I've read that Fractal's new Axe III ships with that output default setting is set to -10db now, because the +4db setting was causing so many people to call Fractal support because they were clipping and didn't understand why. Hope that helps!!!

[@jameslane9537]

@@austinbuddy13 I run into a M-Audio M-Track and was having the same issue. +4 db would cause the interface to constantly spike. I set the output to -10 db and that keeps the signal below 0 db on the M-Track.

[@austinbuddy13]

@@ryansnyderstudio -it's your focus rite. Just trust the output1 knob down low until it's giving you an even -12db in logic.

[@LifeSoDetermined]

Thanks for the information. What about the output level 2 knob being sent to my real cab/poweramp through the fx loop on my AX8? Does it have an ideal setting too?

[@austinbuddy13]

You should treat it like Output1. Turn down everything on your power amp. Turn the Axe8 Output1 and 2 up to max (assuming you have leveled your presets like in the video! so they average out at -12db), then slowly bring your power amp's volume up until you get the stage volume you want. If you are using a tube power amp and have the AX*8s power amp modeling off altogether (which would defeat it at Output1 too), you can dial back the Output2 if you find you need to do that, so you can get the real power amp's tubes cooking.

[@ivanfabiandevota]

Thank you for sharing. . Love Your Vid 1 question.. For Recording: If the AX8 unity gain was turn out 1 up in to maximum. Should i change the out 1 nominal level into -10dB?

[@ivanfabiandevota]

i try to set in -10 from my AX8, and record at DAW. i there gain close to -12db. If i set to 4db at maximum output (out 1) the signal was clipping.. Thanks Austin.

[@austinbuddy13]

Yep -- that makes sense. You are trying to come out of the AX8 or Axe-FX right at -12db as read by external mixer. Go make some great music!

[@ivanfabiandevota]

Yeah! Thank you...

[@austinbuddy13]

YES!

[@andyholley6127]

I just got one of these and no matter what I do my guitar signal clips the red light. I have out 1 set to full as directed here but even with it all the way off my guitar signal still clips the red? I'm not using active pickups. Any ideas? I've also tried turning the the output level of the preset down and that doesn't fix it either.

[@austinbuddy13]

Andy Holley are you using the S/DiF out or the XLRs? In the I/O menu under Audio page, is output 1 (main) set to -10 db instead of +4 db?

[@andyholley6127]

Sorry I didnt receive notification you responded. Yes I did get this corrected by decreasing the input pad thank you.

[@tuberockero]

Hey Austin.. this video has been super helpful i just jumped ship to the ax8 from a line 6 helix. i had a question on the VU meters for ax8. you mentioned that on the axe fx it should be set to 2/3rds of the way accross... does the same go for the AX8?

[@austinbuddy13]

YES! There is a VU meter in the AX8 itself, just like the Axe-FX and it works the same way. I think you'll love your AX8! If you are looking for tones check out my 700+ Naked Amps TonePack - see videos on my channel here on KZbin and forum reviews.

[@tuberockero]

sweet thanks for the quick reply!!! you just gained a subscriber :)

[@MaPaPir]

Thanks for the great video. One question: does the fletcher munson curve also apply while dialing in sounds using headphones? I assume listening to the sounds at 92 dB using headphones isn't probably the best idea. What do you think?

[@austinbuddy13]

Tadupah you can dial in sounds on great headphones but they should be Flat Frequency Response (most consumer headphones are not, they will hype frequencies). 92db level in headphones over extended time is NOT recommended. Fletcher Munson curve does apply with headphones; a preset will sound different to your ears at low volume versus high volume. I still would do the 92db test live if that is how you are going to use the sounds live - there is no way around it!

[@MaPaPir]

Austin Buddy I've got a pair of AKG K271 headphones and Yamaha hs7 studio speaker. However, my room isn't acoustically treated at all. Unfortunately my sounds don't translate live as well as in my studio. Besides tweaking them at 92 dB, are there other things to look out when building a preset for playing live? BTW, I purchased your tone pack, good stuff.

[@austinbuddy13]

Live sounds are also a function of the rooms you are in. Pros have FOH engineers to sit at the board and cut the highs and lows to get the guitar tone with mids to fit into band mix, but most of use don't have that luxury. Some people create presets for live use and separate presets for recording/studio use. The main thing with presets live is to have well-defined mids -- that's how you punch out and blend and don't conflict with bass, keys, other instruments. Guitars are a mids instrument, but we guitar players (Fletcher Munson!) like to add bass and treble to sound fat and full when we play guitar alone because at low volumes that sounds great, but that does not translate well in a loud, live band context -- it can sound either muddy and fizzy when turned up loud. The 8.02 Tonepack version has well-defined mids.

[@danlavi5]

Austin Buddy hi, great video , thanks. I just purchase the AX8 and i am new to the digital world . I didn't understand what you explained about the 92 db when playing live or at Rehearsal room. Do i need to duplicate all my preset , and create one preset level set at -12 db for playing at home via monitors and same present level set at 92 for playing live ?

[@austinbuddy13]

They are two different things. Using a decibel meter (you can get one for your smart phone), when you play and dial in an amp, it needs to be loud enough to hit 92db on the meter - at least loud enough for stage volume. If you do that, you will not have Fletcher Munson curve problems in your preset sounds caused by dialing in at too low a volume (say at home) then turning that same preset up live on stage - it will sound different and probably wrong due to the Fletcher Munson effect (check that out in Wikipedia). The -12db is what you want you signal to AVERAGE after it leaves the Ax8 and goes into a digital mixer for live use or a DAW. That level is NOT what you see in the Amp Block LEVEL!!! People confuse that. You measure that using the VU meters in the Ax8 found when you hit the PAGE key from the main menu about 4 or 5 times. You will see meters running left to right when you play your preset. If the are hitting that bar that is 2/3 over to the right, coming in a little under the bar or over the bar but not to much, averaging around the bar, that is good and internal preset digital level of roughly -12db - aim for that. Now, if you use Setup > I/O > Audio page, you can set the nominal output to either +4db or -10 db. If you use + 4db, then set the Out 1 (Main) Knob to noon/12 o’clock. If you use -10db, then turn the knob to Maximum out. Either way, that will yield output of average -12db leaving the unit for Factory presets or my Naked Amps Tonepack presets. Hope that helps!

[@Tabrez79]

@@austinbuddy13 Another question Austin, I use a volume pedal to control my volumes during live, i noticed that to reach the bar on the VU meters, my volume pedal must be deflected to its max. Do you suggest that I play with the volume pedal maxed out and use it only to silence when not playing?

[@austinbuddy13]

@@Tabrez79 it's a little tricky because the amps hit the VU meter differently. In Concept, YES, you should dial in with volume pedal at the maximum. Then just back off on stage to control overall volume. With Hi-gain amps thought you will see meters moving all over the place, due to high bass and high harmonic distortion content. I set my heavy/modern metal sounds with an A chord that just hits the VU meter when first struck (and it will swell a little after that). The Cus will be higher for low D or E chugs and things but still should have plenty of headroom for that and not be an issue. Hope that helps!

[@lemauvaistemps]

Hi Austin Buddy great tutorial! A question: I use AX8 and I have followed the steps to have my preset reaching the vertical bars in the in-built VU meter, but in my DAW (reaper) I have the VU meter telling me that the signal entering is approx -20dB, which is a bit low I guess. I thought that at this point AX8 is sending signal approx at -12dB. Any idea of what may be the reason? I have set the AX8 output level at -10dB. I use Focusrite Scarlett 616 with 1/4 inch cable to connect the AX8. Thank you

[@lemauvaistemps]

I forgot to add that I have the Out1 knob set to the maximum.

[@austinbuddy13]

Since you are using the Scarlett 1/4 ins from the AX8 outs (not XLRs on your Scarlett, which add extra gain you can't take out), just change the output level leaving the AX8 from -10db setting to +the 4db on the Setup >I/O > Audio page. Now you should be seeing a hot level into your DAW that averages -12db. if you need to back down the AX8 output knob from amp from Maxto a little less to get it where you want it, that's okay.

[@lemauvaistemps]

@@austinbuddy13 Yes that worked! Thx

[@WeareSouledOut]

man, i dont know....when i turn my ax8 output full blast i cant even turn my amp up to 1, it is so sensitive it almost seems like it shouldn't be turned up that high? I have always ran it and 50 % and it is still super loud with any amp, pa system. Am i doing something wrong and/or what does it hurt to have it not a 100% if its still super loud? This is for live use only that i am speaking of

[@austinbuddy13]

If you are running into an amp (not a PA) especially if you are running into an amp's INPOUT (not the Return), you can turn the Ax8 hardware output knob down to say Noon. Remember a real amp's input is designed to raise a guitar single/add gain, so that may be your issue. use the effects loop RETURN to send the signal just to the power amp of your amp, bypassing the preamp. Hope that helps!

[@crispybell51]

@@austinbuddy13 ahhh!! got it, thanks so much!!

[@darrylportelli]

the problem is, how do I Find out what unity gain is on my interface first - because in order to tell if the signal is truly at -12 , I need to have the signal coming in the interface set at unity gain, otherwise the interface's preamp might be adding gain itself .... I have an m-audio profire 2626 , any idea on how to find unity gain ? cheers

[@austinbuddy13]

Darryl Portelli you probably have to ask the manufacturer...

[@darrylportelli]

OK , I think I figured it out - to those using a PROFIRE 2626 LISTEN UP .... to set this up and set the levels as instructed in the video - DO NOT hook up your AX8 to the interface using an XLR cable - this will pass the signal through the preamps in your profire and thus the gain of the signal may be altered with the gain knobs ---- instead use a guitar cable to hook the output to the back of the profire ---- this way , the gain knobs on the profire are non functional and DO NOT alter your signal level .... I tried the factory presets as austin said and ovbiously they are perfectly gain staged and give a perfect -12 db on the DAW

[@austinbuddy13]

@@darrylportelli that makes sense to me. The FOCUSRITE user people had the same issue, the preamps were adding gain and distorting the signal, they had to bring it down using the -10db setting not the +4db setting to avoid distortion.

[@guitargogden]

Hi Austin - great video. I've done the first two steps but my signal is coming in way too hot to Logic X. Like 0db instead of -12db. I'm going XLR into Focusrite 2i4. Any ideas?

[@austinbuddy13]

It's likely the Focusrite,. Is it set to -4db or -10db input? Is there a PAD on it? You can turn down the A8 Ouput1 knob and it will be okay, but try everything else first at the other end and work backwards. I'm assuming nothing is on the Logic channel, and make sure that your Fader settings are pre-fader for signal (not post-fader) and try to use the logarithmic fader scale, there is a way to switch to it but I can't recall how -- see help manual. Let me know?

[@austinbuddy13]

Also, I';m assuming you are on an AX8 here?

[@guitargogden]

Thanks for the reply. I'll hit the manual up. It's an Axe FX II XL.

[@Sturmsaenger]

Hello and thx for this video! Sorry upfront for my maybe stupid beginner's questions. I tried to follow the steps in your tutorial but found that the first problem for me was, that the ax8 has no build in Audio Interface. So I might not be able to get the pure volume level out of my AX8, because I have to adjust the input and output levels of my USB-interface. If I crank input on the interface to let everything from my AX8 through, I get input clipping. I'm using the Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD. To my understanding I should get the correct AX8 levels if I set input levels on my interface to 0.00 db. But I'm not sure if that's correct... I tried this setting and reduced the amp block levels to get -12 db on my DAW meter with input level on my interface on 0 db. As result my amp block level is now at about -50 db! I don't think that's how it's supposed to be... This does not even change wether I'm declaring the inputs as line or instrument level on my interface. The AX8 should output line level I guess...

[@austinbuddy13]

This really depends on your interface (Behringer) and whether it is or is not adding gain to the incoming signal or padding it down. If you are going into XLRs there is always a trim knob (mic preamp) for incoming signal. So you want to come out of the AX8 using a factory preset, with Output 1 up, Then at Behringer, turn whatever gain knob it has down as far as it can go to start. Then play and raise the gain knob until inside your DAW (getting the signal from the Behringer) you see it reach -12db. make sure your DAW is set to POST fader (meaning the fader is not affecting the incoming signal strength -- that is important). Since -12db is where the Factory preset is (say, '59 Bassman) -- after you do this, you now have identified in your Behringer the setting for where "unity gain" is -- the point where the signal going and coming go has no added gain nor losss -- leaves the Axe8 at -12db,a nd enters DAW at -12db. You might have to use a signal PAD on Behringer input (sometimes there is a preset for -10 to +4) but I have no way to know your equipment. Your interface is the issue in this equation - figure out that, and everything will fall into place. Good luck!

[@austinbuddy13]

Also -- check to see if the Behringer board is taking any incoming XLR signal at +4 or -10db setting? That WILL make a difference.

[@Sturmsaenger]

I suppose you meant "Pre-Fader" metering, for that is (at least in Reaper, what I use) the state where movement of the fader does not influence the signal. I switched to that and enabled the pad-function on my behringer interface and with the input knobs all the way down my DAW shows -12 db now! I'm going from here now... Thx a lot!

[@Sturmsaenger]

...unfortunatelly with the "PAD-function" comes also unwanted noise... But well, this was primarily all about levelling out volume between presets in the AX8. So that's done now. For recording stuff I might have to dig a whole lotta bit deeper into the subject, I guess... But I still can limit the interface's input to -12 db. Maybe that's kind of a solution to begin with.

[@austinbuddy13]

YES! That is it -- you got it! Have fun and make some wonderful sounds!

[@tuberockero]

Austin last thing... the factory presets are all set to -12db?

[@austinbuddy13]

Alex Rios the average around that, yes. Some may be a little hotter or less, but they mostly come in around -12db on a fader IF you set the outputs on your Fractal as the video says...

[@darrylportelli]

Also something else that I noticed ... I set my main levels for my preset and it is now coming out at -12db as instructed ... however on my preset , I inserted an fx loop block parallel to the cab , so that I can send a signal to the PA and a signal to my amp's return and just use the pre-amp and FX of the AX8 and the poweramp and cab of my amp ---- regarding the level of this signal it is registering a bit less at around -18 ... should I use the FX loop block fader and increase the level to -12db as well ? what signal level is a guitar amp return expecting?

[@austinbuddy13]

The short answer is yes -- compensate but make sure the guitar amp return responds well. I would not tap off the Amp Block before the Cab Block and go into the PA though -- you want the Cab block sound for that into the PA. Only tap off the Amp Block and go into a power amp and real life cabinet. Make sense?

[@darrylportelli]

No, what im doing is - i have the amp block and cab block going to main out which goes to the pa... then paralell to the cab , there is an fx loop block that has no cab sim in it so that it goes to the amp's return ...... took me about 2 hrs to figure out how to gain stage properly and set everything well but now it's worth it as every preset will be consistent ... cheers

[@austinbuddy13]

Darryl Portelli ah - you got it!

[@guilhordas]

hi austin on 4cm with a marshall jvm (fx level -10db), should I set the OUT 1 [MAIN] of ax8 on -10 or 4 db? On marshall jvm is correct to set on -10 or should i set 4db? thank you very much

[@smck20]

Thank you for a VERY informative video, sir! Quick question..I'm going to be running the AX8 in a live situation into a CLR wedge. Do I still have to have Output 1 at full, and adjust the CLR accordingly? A cable from the CLR will be going to FOH. Thank you in advance. (In my practice room,, I have the ouput 1 at half, and the CLR at about 12 o'clock input, 11 o'clock output, and I believe I'm at around 88-90 db) .

[@austinbuddy13]

Stephen McKee Hi - if you are using my presets or factory ones from Fractal, put your Ax8 out at maximum and your CLR input to around 2:00. There should be NO clip light on the CLR when you play. Then use the CLR’s master out to set your stage volume. Hope that helps!

[@MrJaydeep777]

@@austinbuddy13 This doesn't work out at all for my ax8! If I turn output 1 all the way up, it is way to hot for anything! If I do this, it clips anything that I hook up to it! Please explain.

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi @@MrJaydeep777 Use a factory preset or one of mine, not your own preset, as the reference/test. Now, WHAT are you putting the AX8 output signal into, that is the question? How is THAT set up? And are you using the SET >AUDIO page at +4db or -10db setting? For some consumer grade gear it needs to be set to -10db. But for pro gear +4b is best. Hope that helps?

[@MrJaydeep777]

@@austinbuddy13 All settings on the AX8 are factory default. The factory default is +4. I’m also using unaltered factory presets. I’m going from the output 1 Main left XLR into a Presonus audiobox USB interface and I’m using a Mac computer with Logic software. Even with the input gain turned all the way down, the interface wants to clip. Thanks for helping out! I’d like to get a lesson on the AX8 over Skype. Do you offer that sort of thing?

[@austinbuddy13]

@@MrJaydeep777 definitely use the -10 db setting on AUDIO page instead of +4db. Now, are you using the S/PDIF input into Presonus or XLRs? Check the person us manual. Some companies ADD PREDETERMINED GAIN at the XLR level because they assume it will be a mic coming in (Focusrite Scralett is example). After you stench to -10db, then set the Output to the lowest. Now play chords on factory presets or my presets and turn up the output until you see the level reaching between -12db and -9db in Logic. That's your spot.

[@FaizanShakeelKhan]

Is it safe to leave out 1 at full while switching the unit on and off?

[@austinbuddy13]

Good question. IMHO, You should also turn your AX8 ON BEFORE you turn your playback speakers on (or connect them)... and you should always turn your speakers off first, BEFORE you turn your AX8 off...that way there is no chance of a audio SPIKE or Thump. I wire my studio that way so everything gets turned/off in the right sequence through different power strips.

[@talbehar]

EDIT** I saw the rest of the comments and your answers regarding this subject, but I don't understand-there seems to be this conception (even stated in the manuals) that -10 is for "toy grade" devices, and +4 is for "professional" devices. What's your take on that? Thanks!! I plug my AX8 to the UR44 by XLR to input #3. If I turn the AX8's out1 knob all the way up, it clips the UR44, even if the input gain knob on my UR44 is all the way down. Factory presets included. What am I doing wrong? Is it because I'm using a nominal level of +4dBu?

[@austinbuddy13]

That is the issue -- use the nominal level of -10dbv, not +4dbv (which the unit will default to sometimes with firmware upgrade)). Then everything should come out at -12db out the back of your Ax8 with the output knob cranked.

[@talbehar]

Exactly-that's what I said, and, indeed, everything works fine. The question is-why do all manuals refer to -10 as "toy grade" devices, and +4 as "professional"?

[@austinbuddy13]

You'd have to ask Fractal...but most people who have it +4dbv nominal output report the signal being too hot from factory presets or others for their DAW or preamp. That's why there is an option.

[@jefffranklin2294]

Hello Austin Buddy, Quick question. (I hope) I have been setting my preset to average around 0 on the VU Meter page. If I then boost my solo volume to 6db or more by using the scene fades, it boosts the preset output. Is there around this? I play in a 14 PC band so 3db is not enough solo boost. Thank you in advance.

[@austinbuddy13]

Hi Jeff: Do you have a sound guy? If so s/he could bring you up the rest of the way after 3db boostin Axe-FX for your solos...." very concert/old school." If not, you may have to re-level all your preset scenes BACK by a value -3db from where they are (you could do by scenes) so you have the headroom to boost by 6db for solos. A pain I know. Hope that helps.

[@jefffranklin2294]

Austin Buddy thank you for the response... so scenes' levels effect the overall preset level? I was hoping that wasn't the case. So to remedy this is to reduce the overall levels of the non solo scenes? I tried doing the 3db boost at a gig and was a thimble of water in a ocean. I need more db-idge. If what I said is correct to you, I appreciate you being a sounding board.

[@austinbuddy13]

Yes the Scenes add or subtract to the db going out. So if you add 6db in Scenes, it's going to push the output level from an average -12db (if you followed my video) to -6db for that scene. Make sense? So the solution is to subtract say -3db from all non-solo scenes, then add +3db off of zero for solo scenes. Let the sound guy set your overall level from a NON lead preset (one -3db below zero)...then when you hit the 6db boost you should punch out quick with no digital clipping...hope that makes sense?

[@jefffranklin2294]

Austin Buddy yes it does make sense. Thank you. You should do a series for dialing in effects. I'm sure a ton of ppl would dig that. 👍

[@Bruce87W]

when I turn the output on my ax8 all the up the levels clip big time

[@austinbuddy13]

Bruce87W - clipping where? At the mixer? Into powered speakers? Is this happening for factory presets or your own?

[@Bruce87W]

Austin Buddy i found out the problem it was my output settings into my interface. Thanks for the quick reply though bud

[@austinbuddy13]

No problem - glad u got it figured out!

[@MattDweal]

Thanks Austin! If I set the OUT1 on AX8 to max, I get hard clipping in my daw, even with gain on the audio interface (Scarlett 2i4) set to 0 and "line" level. If I turn on PAD for both inputs, I get -1db for factory presets. What am I doing wrong?

[@austinbuddy13]

MattDweal make sure your Ax8 output is set to the -10db rather than the +4db output (it is software switch that is one or the other, no range). That Scarlett preamp comes up regularly as an issue on clipping, just FYI. See if that change helps.

[@MattDweal]

Thanks! Are you talking about the Main level in the Output section, or is there another setting hidden somewhere else? The problem is, that each preset comes with a different main output level.

[@austinbuddy13]

MattDweal it is not a per preset thing but an overall software switch to go between consumer grade and pro grade electronics. Am away from my unit but it probably under the Audio output page of Settings.

[@MattDweal]

Success!!! Now that it is set up correctly, there are no clipping issues and I get consistently -12db.

[@austinbuddy13]

MattDweal you got it!!! :)

[@guilhordas]

hu buddy, is there any problem increese the level above -12? thanks

[@austinbuddy13]

If you are recording digitally, you want to avoid that. It can go up to -9 or even -6 if not a transient-heavy signals that can spike, but you will get digital clipping and distortion. The issue also comes up when mixing and you push up the master fader -- you want headroom and not to be too close to 0 already. The true pros actually shoot for -18db! But -12db works great.

[@guilhordas]

itrs more to play live

[@austinbuddy13]

If you are a pro touring musician and dealing with FOH mixers using digital consoles, then anything between -18db to -12 db signal coming INTO their console (not a number on your amp block) should make them happen, they can trim if if they need to. As the video says, they should treat the guitar signal from the Axe-FX or AX8 like a Keyboard XLR signal (not a mic'c amp where they might add EQ and gain to it to compensate) -- does that help?

[@guilhordas]

Austin Buddy thanks buddy

[@andyholley6127]

How do you use the VU on the Ax8? Theres no markers or numbers.

[@austinbuddy13]

Andy Holley - when you have the VU meters showing, you set your amp level using the “A” knob on front panel, turn it so that your guitar signal is averaging at the line in the VU meter that is 2/3rds to the right in the meter screen. That makes your signal “average” leave then unit around -12db digitally if you either 1) use the S/PDIF out and Main Out Knob maxed, or 2) in I/O section, under Audio, you set it to -10db instead of +4db and then Max the Out1 knob. Hope that helps?

[@andyholley6127]

So I set all of the patches volumes right at that 2/3 line, Turned the main out to 100% as you suggest but then my sound guy tells me I'm crazy loud and blowing up his board... What then? Do I use that main out as a sort of master volume to accommodate the sound guy? Won't that effect the signal to noise ratio?

[@austinbuddy13]

Andy Holley - did you go to GLOBAL> I/O > AUDIO > Output 1 and set it to -10db instead of +4db? That pads the Out1 (main) knob. If you do that, it probably solves the issue - and you will hit the Console/Board right around -12db which is what the sound guy should want to see. make sure the sound guy is NOT treating it like a Mic and adding the usual pre-amp gain and EQ as you would with a Mic'd amp! If that change to -10db doesn't solve it, then go ahead and use the Out1 knob on the front and turn it from max to noon or whatever your sound guy likes . It's not going to change the tone. Hope that fixes it for you!

[@andyholley6127]

Awesome thank you. I have not done that, Odd though because my buddy has a studio and I dialed it in at his place. He said the signal was a little lower than he'd like to see so we dialed it all in and then the next day the sound guy had me turn it down. I did tell him it was line level. But as long as that level doesnt effect the tone thats good to know. Our other guitarist has a Helix and that has a big ol' volume knob on it so I was wondering what my equivalent was.

[@andyholley6127]

If you would be so kind, different subject... the only other issue I'm having is running my Eventide H9 in the fx loop, using the AX8 to control the PC changes. It's programming fine, changing the presets but I'm not hearing the H9 effect at all. It appears to be working as it should I'm just not getting the effect to kick in...? I've tried adding an FX loop block, that got me to hear the effect but it was very quiet and also disrupted by the delay block in the preset. I tried rearranging, etc. Nothing seems to be doing the trick. I have a patch where I want to use 2 pitch blocks, 1 to lower the pitch of the guitar full time and the other for a harmonizer for the solo which it's not allowing, due to CPU power.

[@sanjakazakov2265]

Sub :) need more stuff like this ! Give us some more knowledge about fractal units plz :)

[@austinbuddy13]

Will have some Axe-Edit tutorials up by end of year!

[@MikaTarkela]

My DAW says -4db and Im already at -32db on the amp out level, lol.

[@austinbuddy13]

Mika Tarkela hi, check your interface. Are you on an Ax8 or Axe-Fx. In the I/O Fractal settings section, be at -10db not +4db output (you choose one or the other), especially if your interface is clipping

[@dawin6710]

This levelling doesn't take under consideration the perception loudness and RMS.

[@austinbuddy13]

Yes it does. View the whole video. You have to dial your presets in at a minimal 92db to defeat Fletcher-Munson (perception loudness) effect -- there is a demonstration of that using a db meter in the video.

[@Josephhof]

anyone helping out on this channel still? ive got some questions

[@austinbuddy13]

The Fractal Forum is the best place to get answers… but what is your question?

[@Josephhof]

@@austinbuddy13 Ive been playing around with my AXE FX ULTRA, it sounds amazing, and all my presets have been pretty good, but i wanted to take the next step into getting the best sound possible, ive gone through all of these steps except the 92 db tone dialing, i dont quite understand where to put in that value, my interface? daw? in the amp block?

[@austinbuddy13]

@@Josephhof The 92db is not a setting on the unit. If you have a smart phone download a DECIBEL App. Then turn it on. You'll see, anything it hears over 92db is considered "LOUD" - and if you want to play live, when you make your presets, you need to design that while playing them this loud. Else your ears will fool you. Hope that helps!