How to Make a Living as a COMPOSER

[@giulianocomoglio]

David, I'm a young composition student from Italy and dreaming all the time to making a living as a composer I regularly fall depressed and scared by it. Your videos are really important and helpful for me and I think for all the guys like me, because knowing that I'm not the only one who lived this is really really important. Thank you a lot.

[@Marunius]

How is it going after 6 years ;D?

[@giulianocomoglio]

@@Marunius Pretty ok Marunius! Just got into a composition PhD and got many great commissionings and stuff. We can keep rolling

[@Marunius]

@@giulianocomoglio Gratz!

[@Marunius]

@@giulianocomoglio Would love to hear your music!

[@aydenwalters7463]

haha, I can't believe 8notes is you!

[@Chainsawmaniacguitar]

I thought that, too!

[@reesetyra902]

Dude same! I found 8note years before I'd ever subscribed here!

[@maykilJuicewa]

omg same here!

[@mattslazik]

Very interesting video. I'm studying music composition right now in music school, and even as a freshman, it's already being emphasized that a huge part of being a composer is marketing, getting people to believe that your music is valuable, and "forging your own path." Making opportunity for yourself, and finding a way to make it all work. It seems you have certainly done that for yourself.

[@superblondeDotOrg]

... 2 years later ...

[@jayducharme]

I didn't realize you created 8notes! That's wild. Your point about writing the "perfect" piece of music resonated with me. What I love most about writing music is connecting everything together like a giant puzzle. I realize most audience members (and probably few musicians) will be aware of all the details, but it's just something that brings me delight when it all comes together.

[@pussfacebusy297]

i wanna hear more music by the teenage David Bruce!!

[@amkmtf6753]

Yes please

[@davidhodgin8900]

Yes!!!! sound like the microphones

[@HackMusicTheory]

Another fascinating video, David, thanks for making this! Been binge-watching your channel, and we're almost up-to-date :) Love your videos!!!

[@DBruce]

Thanks so much!

[@artemlyubchenko3022]

Hi, I love your channel, never thought I'd see you here.

[@TachyBunker]

@@artemlyubchenko3022 same 😂

[@ibm9117]

I say more David Bruce aged 13 and 1/2! I always enjoy your very well made videos, this is no exception. Thank you.

[@semanticsamuel936]

My sister is in Glynebourne Youth Opera, and occasionally in the chorus with the big boys and girls. I'll keep an eye out for any more David Bruce operas there. I haven't been able to go in a while, but the last time I saw my sister perform at Glynebourne was Hipermestra last year. I hadn't realised you were the composer of The Firework-Maker's Daughter. Philip Pullman + music = win. I saw it in London Christmas 2015 - really enjoyed it! I'm just an enthusiastic amateur musician - gave up hopes of becoming a professional composer a while ago though still make a few bob busking at the weekends and did succeed in having one of my compositions performed by a local youth orchestra back a long time ago when I was fresh out from finishing my music A-level. Anyway, love the channel - always interesting content. Greetings from a Sussex native.

[@DBruce]

Shame you missed Nothing! I had a wonderful time at Glyndebourne! The Youth Opera is great.

[@MichaelRichardson36]

Your discussion of not wanting to do film music because you want to be in full control of the project made me feel validated in wanting that as well. While I definitely would love to have my music in a film, I would like to be my own boss in the project and not have to cater to someone else’s desire. This is why I have also gravitated towards writing opera (just finished my first one!). Thanks for the informative video 👍

[@Marunius]

Respect! For me there are so many decisions one can take when making music that some external frameworks could feel like relief.

[@keithgalloway7110]

Thank you so much! I’m a senior in high school and I plan to go to university and study composition. Your videos have been really inspirational. Ps Thank you for 8notes

[@darragh666]

We are going to need a video on how you picked the name 8notes.

[@sail2byzantium]

RE: What it means to be a classical musician. Yeah, I'd certainly listen to that! Much enjoy the videos. Though not a musician myself, I do enjoy coming away with a better sense of music appreciation thanks to your efforts here.

[@videnteloco]

Sometimes music seems to be a challenge and almost impossible task. One thing that I really appreciate in many of my colleagues, is that no matter what, we never give up. Great video!!!

[@Dyadactic]

As someone who’s goal it is to one day operate an online record label of sorts to platform my own and friends’ compositions. Your advice is extremely welcome. Thank you!

[@Marunius]

How did it go?

[@melissacreek2612]

Thank you.. it's a relief to know that someone understand the abstract feeling of trying to get "thoughts" or feelings out in the form of sound, whether light, heavy...whimsical.. etc.. I'm going to give it another try..

[@angelsobrelacuerda5977]

No words to describe this video. That definition you gave about writing a piece of music... You really got me on that one. Thanks for taking the time of recording and sharing this with us.

[@luvchristopher]

I genuinely think that being able to compose on your computer now has saturated what made good music so great, however, it is very nice to be able to hear your compositions come to life without actually having to find a large group of people willing to sit down and play it.

[@luvchristopher]

I also find it comical that I would love to be a full time composer but am also studying computer science and developing websites haha

[@skeptale]

Listening to that first clip of you singing as a kid, I'm amazed you didn't end up an indie rock legend. Reminds me of early Conor Oberst tapes.

[@goallinjj]

I have been a modern classical composer as well in that I prefer to write music down, wanted to share. Thank you for the video!

[@bigogle]

Those old song snippets are heartwarming! Thanks for yet another candid, pragmatic and charming video on the craft and industry. So much hinges on growing those relationships. I realised earlier this year that my first big premiere (this october) has come about because of nearly a decade of trust-building. And I'm not even getting a fee so... relevant!

[@scott_maness]

I couldn't help but think of American modernist composer Charles Ives after watching the video and reading some of the comments. He had a day job selling insurance, and composed what he wanted. According to wikipedia, his works were largely ignored during his lifetime (gasp!), but now he's considered one of the true American originals.

[@TheRedverb]

I wonder what the classical composers that watch this channel think of Tim Hecker. He's a composer by way of instrumentals recorded off-site, then, via laptop, shaped into the visions in his head. Not likely that anybody here even knows who Tim Hecker is. If interested, a good place to start would be the album, An Imaginary Country. Tim's music was such a near revelation to me that I wrote a short story with two of his albums as one of the narratives main focal points. Good day lovely creatives.

[@RenegadeShepard69]

Are your short stories somewhere on the internet? I'd be interest in reading them, as I've got an interest more in lyricism for classical pieces, or that is, the literary translations from the music, the libretto stuff, y'know what I mean?

[@TheRedverb]

@@RenegadeShepard69,I do indeed know what you mean, and no, I have nothing exposed and vulnerable on the web. My writing falls too far outside of current literary conventions, as in genre-hybrid present-tense post-modern often peppered with extemporized phrases like: incalcula-buzzing-freneti-cluster... and given titles like: Five Hundred and Sixty Seven Rabbits. No, I'm very much in my own lane and attempting to evolve the short-story form (for the service of a personal yen, not to try and actuate a change of status quo.) I float around a loosely formed artist community in Ft. Lauderdale, reading the shorter examples from my collection of stories to those with the interest and the time enough to oblige me. People always ask: "Where do you get your ideas?" Anyhow, I liked your comment...cheers.

[@Trynottoblink]

Not a musician or composer but I love Tim Hecker. Virgins is one of my favorite albums ever.

[@scottalbers2518]

This is a very honest statement of your life. Beautifully done!

[@chloehazle2726]

I really enjoyed the fact that you shared music from your successful operas and the 13 1/2 year old you singing in this video. I am trying to work on accepting all parts of my own output and being willing to share it - whether it has been a piece that I thought was really successful or a piece in which I learnt something or developed as an artist. I am still working on this though! However, I am finding the more that I share - the more that I learn. Thanks for this video.

[@深夜-l9f]

thank you, this was eye-opening for me

[@ianw1976]

As a young, and I mean quite young, composer, this helped me a lot.

[@TheGeoDaddy]

Is there a “composers website” some place where composers go to put their name out there and hook up with other artists who need non-royalty music for their own nascent plays (me) or films (soon)

[@HuggumsMcgehee]

Wow. You did 8notes?

[@jbrandao7675]

Pretty strange

[@stupidhatonthefloor3]

Name dropping A. Akiho! LOVE his work!

[@tamaraprister3278]

Thank you for your honesty. It's great video!

[@OchreFrame]

From what I keep hearing from my professors and advisors, at least here in the U.S., it’s a bit easier to make a living if you decide to write for concert band as opposed to orchestra. Especially at the high school and college level, concert bands are constantly looking for new music. Combine that demand with the connections you’ve made, as well as the power of social media as a self-marketing tool, and you’re off to a slow but steady start. It really helps me that at the college I go to, the professors here really love student-written music.

[@wingflanagan]

Great video. Thoughtful and well-considered. I often wonder when one should use the word "composer" to describe oneself. If you're an amateur, does that count? You just do it for fun and record your own stuff for the amusement of friend and family? Or do you need to be a dedicated professional? I suspect there is no one correct answer, but I've become wary of calling myself a composer because it usually results in eye-rolling from others. And I'm serious about learning and practicing my craft, but not in trying to do it for a living. My work ends up being performed by myself, with a computer supplying the noise. To me it's not self-aggrandizement or puffery. I just compose music, so...I'm a composer. _But am I really?_

[@DBruce]

Yes you are!

[@13moles]

Of course you are! And in some ways I think yours to be an ideal state. However, I also think it risky to be without high-level criticism... the kind of criticism implied or produced though regular congress with trained professional musicians. If you live entirely in your own cocoon you may well develop without an understanding of what constitutes developed, sophisticated music. You need some knowledgeable people around you---especially if you are isolated.

[@wingflanagan]

@Alan Torok: thank you, and I believe you are correct about isolation. I appreciate your taking the time to thoughtfully respond to my comment. I would very much like to solicit constructive criticism from others, but I don't know any other composers personally. I'm a software engineer by profession, so I really don't have any musical friends. I also feel self-conscious about making people listen to my work, although I'd be quite happy to reciprocate (I end up feeling like the guy who makes people watch his interminable vacation videos). Do you have any suggestions for cultivating the kind of relationships I need? I live in the Seattle area, if that's helpful information. I'm serious about learning the craft. I study scores and listen to a lot of music, as well as read everything I can get my hands on about music theory, composition, and orchestration. (As time permits, anyway!)

[@13moles]

Perhaps a clue about the kinds of relationships your compositional life needs is to be found in the kind of music that inspires, interests and speaks to you? From my art school days in the 1960s I was attracted to modernistic music. I was fascinated by the music of Messaien, Boulez, Webern, Carter... without understanding it. But I also listened to a lot of Stravinsky, Copland, Shostakovich, Katchaturian, etc... strands of music more directly connected to the 19C and earlier traditions. This naturally led me to certain kinds of study that would illuminate the nuts and bolts of such music. So I looked for people and-in my case-also institutions that cultivated such study. Most of my study however, was private rather than institutional. (You sound like you have a mindset similar to mine in the 1960s-while you are heavily engaged in another professional life, music is eating your expressive liver! Har! Har!)

[@wingflanagan]

Yes. With some fava beans, and nice chianti. :-) Thanks!

[@dolce_dreemurr]

YOU made 8notes?? I had no idea, that's so cool!

[@kuroimusic]

I love that part of "the best things I know music can do". But in my case, I don't really know what music can do until I stumble upon it.

[@FrogSkull]

So tl;dr: you don’t.

[@DBruce]

yup

[@TenorCantusFirmus]

I love Adam Neely's answer to the question: "By having a second job".

[@MitchBoucherComposer]

@@TenorCantusFirmus oof

[@cisium1184]

Hey, Chopin basically was a kept man for most of his adult life. You take what comes.

[@jackaguirre8576]

Well that's depressing.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Great, insightful video. I’ve been interested in this topic for ages... thank you for answering my questions! One question I had still though is... with your operas, did you write the narrative too or was that written by someone else? Or was it based on a preexisting story? Thank you again!

[@DBruce]

Thanks. Recently I've been working mostly with poet/playwright Glyn Maxwell, so he writes the words (after a lot of discussion and too-ing and fro-ing) and the stories have been pre-existing, it's a lot harder to get new opera commissioned on a brand new story unless it has some kind of 'hook' like the recent one on Steve Jobs.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Great stuff! It's always interesting to hear about the workings of the contemporary classical world! It's pretty mysterious to someone like myself who went down the modern, pop/rock/jazz route.

Very insightful! I specially liked the 5th topic!

[@davidgraey]

love your videos, all of em! thanks for being so genuine.

[@Tylervrooman]

I finally felt validated when I recently recorded my sting quartet. Im sure we feel a little crazy putting dots on paper. Its like a code language . Only the initiated can understand. Love doing it and won't stop. I feel output is important. Just write. I find by writing regularly is key. Some works will be trash but some will be great. I almost feel I have to write the trash to write the good stuff. I don't know. Love you work!! Thanks! --Tyler

[@philippe_powell]

Thanks for sharing man ! Very helpful !

[@dreamliver750]

youre my new #1 favorite youtuber music guy

[@Herehear49]

I waited for my bad case of chapped lips to clear up before I watched this. The laughter would have been too painful otherwise. "Art for art's sake, money for God's sake!".

[@Keviamaya]

Holy crap you did 8notes! That's amazing :D

[@sebastianzaczek]

3:52 From which of Ferneyhough's String quartets is this? I'd guess 3rd quartet, 2nd mvt?

[@neo-eclesiastul9386]

DerSibbe Ferneyhough? Did you mean suicide?

[@giannottister]

I admire a lot Ives because he wrote music not for living nor to impress other composers.

[@jhonwask]

I've been putting dots on paper for over 40 years and still no success, but I just enjoy doing it. Some things are appreciated locally and i was once approached by a company to write for a video game. That company was ID software. Wish I had taken them up on it. Good luck to you.

[@coltonmykael]

As soon as I saw you mention Akiho I subscribed

[@herbievk1179]

Since you mention that there's many ways in which a person can be a contemporary classical compser even without the ability to, as you say write stuff down, What do you think of Paul McCartney's orchestral ventures including his 1966 movie sountrack, The Family Way and Thrillington, his symphonic reworking of hs solo album Ram? I've always wondered if his compositional work would be taken seriously were he not one of the fab four. Mind you I'm a big fan, what I mean by this that I can't wrap my head around the fact a classical composer compose without being able to read or write music. Thanks for your wonderful vids!

[@BenjaminStaern]

Dear David Bruce. Many thanks for your warm videos about composing hacks and stuff. Do you have any suggestions talking about recycling ideas from previous works you've done or composers that have done it in the past?

[@alexjevincent]

Love all your videos David - each is quite enlightening. Thanks for sharing the humble tracks from your teens. It's good to know someone of your calibur started out the same way! Would you suggest studying music at university from a literacy and competency point of view as well? Do you think it made you a better composer? Would you still suggest it to someone who's older and wants to move into that?

[@DBruce]

Thanks - I probably learned most from my own private study, but that may be just me (always liked rebelling against teachers!) But definitely learned a lot about the world and how things work (along with the performance experiences I mentioned), so would definitely go again. I don't see why that would be any different for an older student. And yes, my "humble tracks" - probably my best work :)

[@Lynkevmusic]

Thanks David, starting out here but interested where the journey might lead.

[@peanut71968]

Jake is good! Enjoy your presentation and material as well! Cheers

[@csucskos]

It's scary to think how lucky I am. I write dots on the page and the computer performs it. I don't know if I could compose without hearing the actual sounds. (I don't want to be a composer, I just enjoy writing music. Both the challenge and the satisfaction about the end result.)

[@ChopinIsMyBestFriend]

how do you compose for other instruments while your doing it. say to test out harmonies. i know you have many instruments to put your hands on but usually I sit at the piano and as long as i know the instruments limitations i use the piano. but like samuel barber said once i want to “break free of the chains of the piano” when composing.

[@FMSnow]

have you ever thought about composing music for video games? it's such a different kind of composition but such a unique medium as well.

[@samwallaceart288]

And it isn’t far-fetched to have a game that’s built in service to music.

[@mal2ksc]

I _do_ compose music for video games. mal-2.bandcamp.com/ In addition to what is there (not every song is for a game, but well over 100 of them are), I contributed a few songs to an MMO that soon after shut down all but the Korean servers, so the only people who have ever heard those songs are Koreans. It's gonna be all about finding commissions, and good luck. Many game developers regard the music as an afterthought, and they don't want to pay for it, they'd rather slap together a royalty-free/Creative Commons soundtrack and call it done. Only a few take it as seriously as film scoring. Even on a game where I'm doing all the music, the same guy only had me do one song on his side project and used all free libraries for the rest. I was just discussing this with an indie developer maybe 12 hours ago, and his plan is to have me do maybe three songs that he thinks do need to be "just so", and use free libraries for everything else. And it'll be 18 months before he needs my three songs.

[@BG-pg5tu]

Dr. Bruce, I had a chance to communicate with London-based composer Dai Fujikura for my dissertation. Have you met him or worked with him? He was very kind and I thoroughly enjoy his music. I've enjoyed your videos that I've watched so far. Thanks for your work on YT.

[@2ndviolin]

My composer relative relentlessly publicises his work, and arranges performances. (He also did a lot of commercial work).

[@alexisjordan3303]

Can you imagine if that drummer had just played the shaker part :) David would have become a prog rock or metal composer I'm sure.

[@TheNachoNugget]

that song example from 1:18 was amazing! Link to full song?

[@yogyog]

As a composer who knows how to code I'd be interested to know how you'd handle a game score - in a bazaar set of circumstances where you're given complete free reign with the only instruction being that the score has to be REALLY interactive - cutting loops in and out depending on what's going in the game is just the start.

[@56independent]

Did you accidentally use the word for an arabic market rather then "bizarre"?

[@xelaxander]

You pronounced "Matthias Pintscher" perfectly. Although you wrote "Matthais" in one of the captions. :)

[@michaelbereckis]

Hello David, a great honest video! Thanks. Is it really the case that your compositions only exist on paper if you can't find musicians to perform them? greeting Michael

[@stephaniemacchi5598]

😱 I can't believe you set up 8notes!

[@genderfluids6448]

Do a video on other styles of composition like songwriting or film music.

[@robertsixto1246]

i actually really liked the song you sampled from when you were a teenager. Is there somewhere I could hear the whole thing? I'd buy it.

[@Ana_crusis]

David Have you got perfect pitch or just a very highly trained relative pitch ?

[@Techiastronamo]

Wait, you made 8notes?! :D

[@homzymusic]

Duke Ellington did it best - he had his own orchestra of distinct individuals which delivered his vision over six decades in the 20th century. Duke also had great wit, to wit: "My orchestra? Well, they get the money and I get the kicks."

[@glennsewell6980]

Hi, David - have you ever composed for the British-style brass band? Or would you consider it?

[@hendrikbarboritsch7003]

Hi Dave great vids thx. 1 question for now, do you have Opus numbers for your works, or is that not done anymore nowadays?

[@ggauche3465]

I followed a similar path many years ago. What I didn't know then was that trying to make money from composition was really about selling trust. to people. I also had become a programmer while I wasn't looking and that sustained me and the family for many years. In the end it's about your people skills when it comes to business of almost any kind, and that has nothing to do with composing that I could see.

[@DBruce]

Selling trust is a good phrase. I do think talent is part of the equation too though!

[@ggauche3465]

I was trying to say that business is about others trusting in your ability to meet their requirements. But I think composition is about being able to trust in your own inspiration, and skills, and your ability to work hard and faithfully. I suppose that all looks like talent from the outside.

[@andrewoliver7095]

Holy shit you're the 8 notes guy too!!!

[@jacobthomas9364]

I was introduced to your channel by signals jake

[@johnhamon2639]

Young David Bruce sounds a whole lot like The Velvet Underground. I approve.

[@paulhenderson4534]

I know, I want to download that song bad. help me find it.

[@martinmaguire-music6692]

What's the name of the video from Not Right Music that talks about Dorian? I can't find it and I've really been interested in Dorian lately..

[@TONIKOBLER]

great channel , thanks david , i understand enough , Stravinsky dj

[@MrKeithterrett]

Interesting video David, full of useful information and tit bits.

[@StyArth]

Hi Bruce, I've heard that composing away from any musical instrument is the best way. would you be able to elaborate on that topic? I'm particularly interested in the methodology of it. Thanks

[@ThePianoFortePlayer]

I don't know about that, personally I find that using a mix of both is best.

[@tfpp1]

Personally, I write music for others; least of all myself. Yes, I am trying to create something with a high degree of craftsmanship, but my music will not go on in perpetuity by itself. Music only outlives us if others perform it, and others consume it. It, therefore, makes sense to me that I am writing music for anyone else other than myself. That is always in my mind as I am writing. Will someone else enjoy performing it, or listening to it? Hopefully, yes. Time will tell. If the answer turns out to be yes, then I will have done my job right.

[@EdgardoPlasencia]

Composer comes from making something more complex, richer.

[@FilipSandecomposer]

Very spot on! Me, as many other classical Composers very much could agree with this. Thank you for sharing it to the world. My experience is actually that many people of today do `nt really know what a Composer is anymore....

[@maxtofone]

What are your thoughts on learning the art and craft of music composition privately under a working composer rather than through a conservatoire or an established music school or academy... do you for instance take on private composition students? Cheers, Max T.

[@franklyngisultura7506]

I remembered my choir teacher, and he advised me (which I have a plan to enter) not to enter music courses. It's sad but I'm planning to become a music teacher in public school here in the Philippines. Wish me luck!!! Sir David Bruce do you have some advice for me???

[@MrMashyker]

Anybody knows what track plays at 0:45?

[@Ana_crusis]

I'm concerned your eyebrows may crawl off and do their own thing one of these videos :)

[@augusto7681]

His eyebrows are very expressive. Like a cartoon character

[@paulhenderson4534]

HAHAHAHHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[@Dyadactic]

Khasab If he were a rockstar (although he fits my definition), his eyebrows would be the equivalent of Frank Zappa’s mustache. He could market his face

[@PrinceWesterburg]

If you watch the last Avengers film (I'm an animator, I have to watch this shit) then look at the Hulk, now half human, and its David!

[@Machodave2020]

Okay, when you mean being a composer, you mean a professional composer.

[@KevinLeroyGrant]

I really want to become a video game composer and I'm thinking if i should double major or minor with music and programming or something like that

[@EvanEvansMusic]

Here's a potential alternative/additional option: events.filmscoring.academy

[@wahawaha541]

did you ever consider remaking these songs that you make when you were young?

[@luigi7781]

Is there a specific instrument you should learn? I see a lot of composers with guitars and pianos.

[@HenryJonesVictor]

1:17 - sounds like Cardiacs lmao

[@anauel7959]

may i ask what university you went to?😊

[@simonvanroij4182]

Sick song man

[@chief2632]

I wonder if it is worth it to publish and promote your own music and take on the rigors of doing that while also working or should you just try to find a publisher who will take your work?

[@hermask815]

You're lucky to have an orchestra which plays your music. Composing with some composition software would give you both your music in sound and in paper. That would be my way, having no orchestra. Have you tested that method, and what didn't work for you ?

[@horowizard]

I want to know who the girl at 10:10 is!

[@punlovincriminal5564]

Young you reminds me of Daniel johnstone.

[@everestjarvik5502]

Do you have to have an advanced degree (in composition) to get commissions, or can that happen on the basis of the merit of your portfolio?

[@dbc2]

Having a degree certainly isn't essential. Most commissions come out of a direct connection between the player/artistic administrator and the composer, so it's hard to get to know them if you're not 'part of the scene' at all. It's very rare for a group to commission or play something purely on the basis of a good looking score that was sent in, although that happens in competitions etc.

[@daniellec5235]

@ anyone reading this im quite new to composition and am unsure how to determine if this is something i'd like to major in. i primarily play cello but also piano and vocals then basics of uke clarinet and flute but anyhow, im very hesitant to go into comp. im not sure how to determine if im even capable of being at least mediocre and am also unsure where to start. im far too scared and inexperienced to show anyone i know personally the few things ive done so long story short???????????what do i do??????????? ive been told numerous times im musically inclined and have a good ear and am able to accomplish a level of musicality beyond what someone of my experience typically could (with cello) which leads me to believe i could be ok at comp but... im horrible at technicality. etudes are horrifying. like ive gotten a 1 at state solo and ensemble with a more musicality oriented piece by faure but i cant even play the first line of a popper etude for the life of me. not only with music but in general, i love art, english, philosophy, more subjective and abstract concepts so the amount of music theory required is quite offputting. im a highschool sophomore so i guess i have time but id like to decide before applying to colleges. also, what level do i have to be at to become a music comp major? im not sure if people go in experienced or what and id rather not be behind side note; im considering music ed regardless but ive heard music ed is a difficult major to begin with

[@Xicanos]

It'd be cool to see you do a video on Euphonium (tenor horn in orchestral terms), and why you think it's not in the orchestra! Great video as always!

[@sashakindel3600]

I would like to hear what you have to say about what it means to be a classical musician, because I can't think of any meaningful lines I could draw in the sand that wouldn't be tantamount to snobbery.

[@IgnacioClerici-mp5cy]

not all of them are snobs, in fact most of them arent

[@superblondeDotOrg]

Classical composers are literate, other musicians are illiterate. That is the fundamental difference. The difference, in general, between any literate person and an illiterate person is simply education and personal attitude towards education.

[@sashakindel3600]

@@superblondeDotOrg The idea that classical musicians make heavier use of sheet music than musicians in other genres would seem plausible enough to me, so I wouldn't disagree if that's all you meant by "literate," but I don't think drawing any kind of one-to-one correspondence between that and education is accurate. Formal education in jazz is very much a thing, for example.

[@superblondeDotOrg]

​@@sashakindel3600 True, formal DEGREES in jazz is very much a thing, but formal EDUCATION in jazz is not a thing. Jazz emphasizes trial & error composition through playing, it emphasizes purposely relishing mistakes as "magic events to welcome", it does not emphasize comprehension of the music (beyond trivial scale/chord compatibility). Talk to a dozen jazz professors (MM in jazz performance or jazz studies) and none of them will know much about tonal function or can explain the various types of augmented chords, just as basic examples. They are illiterate. Talk online to a dozen 'famous' youtube jazz vloggers and they will be similarly illiterate. They can sight-read staff for their instrument, they can name pop-notation for the chords they are playing, yet they can't explain the "words" and that is illiteracy. And that is just the MM graduates; those typical musicians who are good performers and attend schools on a jazz track yet drop out prior to graduating are actually even more illiterate and many are snobbish about their abilities (perhaps out of an ego problem, self-defense mechanism) to insist that performing is a far more valuable skill than literacy (understanding the intention of the notes and being able to name their function/purpose). So yes, literacy includes knowing & understanding all the concepts and music terms in the basic "first year music major textbook". Even a recent web-stream with BMI for musicians, hosted by a long-time music industry supervisor and musician-representative, demonstrated that the host did not know the basic term 'appoggiatura' and stumbled through this knowledge area. A recent youtube interview with world-famous guitarist Steve Vai, who has recently scored and recorded his own original orchestral works, attended Berklee School of Music, dropped out after a few semesters to go on tour with Frank Zappa, yet awarded an honorary degree by Berklee and regularly teaches masterclasses at Berklee, demonstrated that Steve Vai does not know the basic terms surrounding Species Counterpoint (or certainly how to write counterpoint). This illiteracy is actually a bragging-point for guitarists in pop/rock music circles and fans will defend the illiteracy of their favorite artists until their dying breaths. This lack of education and knowledge, coupled with the bad attitudes regarding being educated in music, is extremely disappointing. It is not snobbery, it is simply stating the fact, that general musicians are illiterate, and classical musicians are somewhat literate. But even that is not the full story, because many classical musicians, even famous performers, are actually illiterate themselves (they mimic the music, playing only the dots on the page, they do not understand the music), and there are world-famous classical performers who are school drop-outs as well who never became literate on their own. Still, in general, "classical musician" implies more education and more literacy compared to any other musician.