How to Maximize Vertical Investment in Honkai Star Rail

[@Iyoverse]

Are you saving up for someone's more powerful eidolon or are you sticking to as many character pickups as you can?

[@crazyturbo4286]

I'm trying to do both, but I've lost my 50/50 both times I tried to get eidolons. It's kinda hard to balance both, because I just like having more characters to use, but making my current characters stronger is just as valuable. That's just me though.

[@teenagesilver6512]

sticking to as many char I can, so, pulling tingyun herta and sunday!

[@RaikamiX]

Definitely going for Sundays lc And E2 regardless of what it is. Apart from favorites, I'm looking forward to Robin's E1. Ik she just passed but feixiao was worth a lot more to me who only had jing yuan and dot

[@SenMid]

I always say this and when I do say it I get flagged for it but here's the take As f2p you have no business trying to build more than 2 to 3 teams Your main goal as f2p is to lockin those 2 teams and vertically invest into them asf ideally they should be consisting of characters you either like or characters that make the characters that you like stronger buh when I say this everyone comes at me with their Genshin mentality that "oh no horizontal is always better" then cry and ask why they can't beat content no more with their E0 S0 units lol

[@teenagesilver6512]

@@SenMid I do horizontal with e0s0, and beat all the content, bruh...

[@oyfum2638]

Meanwhile me, F2P saving for ddd banner 🗿

[@JaiMac-gc5nr]

I pulled Rappa because I enjoy her play style, character design, I wanted an Imaginary DPS, I have Ruan Mei, Langshi, Robin, and I will pull Fugue. I’ve continually skipped Dan Heng IL and Aventurine since I personally don’t like anything about them, lol. Every character becomes obsolete to some degree as months and years pass; nevertheless, I still play Seele, Silver Wolfe, Fu Xuan, Sparkle, DoT, and everything else I love… because they’re my favorites, lol. You’ll inevitably quit the game if you’re continuously collecting characters you’re “not” fond of playing with on a daily, weekly, monthly, or annual basis.

[@RaikamiX]

Vertical investment is a serverely underrated thing in hsr. I have a friend that has all destruction characters except blade. Because he doesn't pull lcs, it puts him in a weird spot where they can't use 2 destruction units to clear content without sacrificing efficiency on either side. So all that meta pulling... Only for them to still struggle with content. A single light cone would fix all their problems et they refuse because "lcs are too expensive"

[@jaimecastro3194]

Pulling lightcones depends if the character REALLY needs that cone. For example, fu xuan cone is simply useless, is very cool but it is by no means a must have. On the other hand, Acheron's is almost a must.

[@jasonkeith2832]

​@jaimecastro3194 There are also some lightcones that are more universally usable, but that is more for earlier units. Kafka's lightcone is a good example of this, because almost all nihility units would love an extra status on their attacks, especially if you have one on a team that is built for DoT/status saturation.

[@AngelOnerom]

Your friend is anecdotal evidence. I can tell you I 1-cycled this rotation and 2-cycled the previous. All the while running sustain and all units @ E0S0, without spending a single dime. If you have the best units for the job, it's way better than trying to brute force with a couple of LCs & Eidolons.

[@peterbabicki8252]

There are unlucky examples of horizontal investment, but there are also unlucky examples of vertical investment. I know an E6 Jing Yuan main that struggled through Penacony end-game. You can get severely shafted by vertical investment _(and this doesn't just include one character, but also one team)_ Another player I know invested everything into his Acheron team, only to be hit with two instances where the bosses of AS had 40% Lightning Resistance. I personally don't pull for Eidolons at all, and I've been getting full clears on all end-game modes since day 1 _(other than the first ever MoC because I didn't have 2 teams and Seele couldn't carry it 😅)_

[@SenMid]

I always believe investing in the characters you like is 10x more better than getting the supposed "new best toy" imo seems I'm the only one with this mindset and that's fine to each their own I guess For me as f2p my advice is always first lock down 2 teams of characters you like and you really enjoy playing Then go vertical I never see any reason trying to get more characters at weaker investment Buh seems that's the mindset of a lot of people Is what it is

[@kmel3588]

I still find it hilarious that iyo the guy that constantly talk about vertical investment doesn't feel the need to full invest in his characters to level up their traces. The irony is rich.

[@amp-le4699]

^^^^ me fr as an f2p as well. I have e2 robin and aven (cause theyre my favs), feixiao, and m7 as my strongest team and i just kinda do whatever w the 2nd team (trying to shoehorn Ratio in anything but hes eh wout his lc, so i just improvise a superbreak team most times). This allows me to clear 99% of endgame w 3 stars

[@dante19890]

The only issue is if the characters you like are really bad like Blade etc. Then u are severly gimping ur account for clearing endgame 3 star rewards.

[@amp-le4699]

@@dante19890 blade can still clear tho, even if it's in like 6 cycles lol (if it's superbreak it's probably even shorter, and this is just considering MOC). Just make sure to build a team for the other half that can fill in for the remaining amount needed to get 3 stars. Not everyone needs to 0 cycle

[@dante19890]

@@amp-le4699 but its not a good spot to be in especially when content getting harder in 3.X and u end up pulling a powercrept 1.1 unit thats gonna 8 cycle the future content. Its a bad move for making ur account stronger. Ur griefing urself, when u could have pulled a much stronger meta unit for the same price.

[@Zeelly60000]

We dont need vertical investment we need vertical gooning

[@Iyoverse]

Imagine gooning up into infinity & beyond. LOL

[@yrn_serios]

😮

[@kolebowyer3837]

Nah, Horizontal gooning is the way, brother. 😎

[@kingsfordkyeremeh-frimpong5150]

Brother you're alone in this, use your pronouns well😂😂

[@Slimebawt]

Here for the goonmaxxing

[@LetterSequence.]

There are some cracked eidolons but E0S1 feels like the best blend of investment vs getting the most characters. It provides a more "complete" version of a character's kit, and most lightcones feel like they provide more than E1 which is usually just a big damage buff. Plus some of the rate up cones can be actually pretty good to have multiple copies of compared to my 17th copy of a character I don't want to build. I also lose every damn 50/50 so I couldn't get someone at E1 even if I tried.

[@jasonkeith2832]

Most of the cracked eidolons are at the even mark for limited characters, while a heavily synergized light cone can easily provide a boost on par with a good eidolon, AND be usable for other characters (e.g. Kafka lightcone). The one issue I have is that, unlike excess eidolons, excess cones don't provide functional refunds if you go past their max upgrade.

[@YungNah-t8f]

An eidolons value can never be replaced tho unlike a lightcone… If there’s a really good alternative to the Sig it can feel better to go for E1

[@writerducky2589]

@@YungNah-t8f Robin case in point. Between energy boosting relics and the event LC intended for her, getting her E1 is arguably a better investment than her LC.

[@anupambarua3407]

It's simply a choice between having 10 toys with 8 of them being mid or having 2 best toys that will never lose value

[@AngelOnerom]

The answer is JUST DON'T unless you REALLY like the character(s). The only vertical investment worth getting for F2P are Eidolons for very select broken supports (E1 Robin/E1 Ruan Mei, for instance). Otherwise you'll get Acheron Andies crying about how their E2S1 Acheron + E1S1 Jiaoqiu ain't cutting it any more compared to E0S0 3.X characters. It's already happened with units who thoroughly dominated the meta in 1.X like DHIL and Jingliu and even Acheron is starting to show her age against new teams like Feixiao FUA or Firefly Super Break.

[@YvetteTyr]

Dude I started watching you from your zzz videos, I am so happy that you make hsr videos as well. I love the way you talk, your articulation and the chill cadence.

[@UZUCXXL]

reminder to pull sunday instead of fugue. Fugue is bait

[@tmtravlrsgoogleaccount1984]

"Do not pull this character"... of course I got e2 DHIL this banner. 😂 He's my fav character, and I've been having a lot of fun with his e2.

[@ckwi2245]

Feixiao (E0S0), Lingsha (E0S1), Robin (E0S0), and Topaz (E0S1) has been my go to team since the second half of last patch been loving it for most content, as long as I'm not missing both Fire and Wind Weakness it just mops through things easily. Lingsha just works so easily everywhere, pretty much wiped out the "shit should've grabbed Aventurine" I've been feeling since I decided to get Jade. I like how I really don't have to be too picky about the team with her, considering I moved from Luocha to her as my primary sustain, she's just more fun to play for the same kind of "just works" feeling. I'm still not sure if I'm even pulling at all in 2.7, atm it's a Waifu pull for Fugue - Tingyun and even that's assuming she's good for a team comp I want to play. I might be walking into 3.0 with like 300-400 pulls or so...

[@Boot_hil-l]

Yk who should f2p save for bootyhill no need for support or lc just give him healer ANY SUSTAIN either pela or hmc freaking asta anything and he will pop off SPREAD THE BOOTYHILL AGANDA

[@solarenity]

username checks out.

[@Boot_hil-l]

@solarenity I said bootyhill propaganda for a reason it wouldn't be if I don't have him as user

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

He will want fugue for 2 layer break tho, but that's pretty much it

[@Boot_hil-l]

@dreamsandhopes6802 I mean it's just extra Buff but it's not need it's not like how jq is need to acheron or she will go down or sparkle to dhl of he will be unplayable he's damge with most f2p team clear every single unit

[@MACA_Zeon]

You sold me I may get him on rerun depending on when

[@hollowcookie9648]

The easiest way to invest into your character is to max your traces!!

[@javontriplett]

Not going to lie most people don’t understand that Iyo knows what he’s doing he help me start my account just finish making a follow up team

[@ashleykirk123]

I was a new player when she 1st came out. I skipped her cause I didn't have 2 nihility units. I was looking at info though KZbin and almost caved and pulled her, but I was low level and would have struggled to build her. I pulled Sparkle. I pulled loucha over acheron cause I needed a sustain. Then, I got in Adventurine, jingliu, Robin, Topaz, Ruan Mei, Jq, and Feixiao. I use Fua and built a Super break team with Himeko. I have all harmony units and hit every team type, but acheron. She is able to brute force content, and I don't have lightning dps. I still plan to pull in 2.6 for Acheron and Lc. I have enough for a 2.6 and 2.7 character. Low spender just monthly pass. I am at the point of getting lcs and eidolons now, too. It's building what I have and let's me have more freedom banner wise on the new character. I plan on reruns to get Jade(maybe) and Lingsha for Fua. As well as Sig. Lc for Feixiao. It know it's all changing meta and things in 3.0. But I have my 2 or 3 team archetypes and elemental coverage. I may not alway 3 star endgame modes while still leveling traces and building better relics. But I have accepted that fact. It's a great place to be since March and I will continue playing. Good luck all on pulls.

[@crashsparrow6943]

From what I've seen, the sentiment around Acheron is not "she is bad now, don't pull", it's "if you want to pull, know that she will need some additional investment to shine." People aren't recommending newbies to skip acheron because they don't know how to use her, they are doing so because she is not great at E0S0. She can't get stacks fast enough even with trend on the team, and her damage per ult isn't enough to compensate for the atrocious recharge speed at that investment level. Add S1 and Jiaoqiu, and the story changes quite a bit, but is it smart to recommend pulling for a character that would want two extra 5 stars to shine (before we even start considering sustainers) when you can spend the same resources for new characters? Considering how big of a jump there was between 1.x and 2.x characters, and knowing how close to 3.x we are, I can't recommend pulling for Acheron in good faith without mentioning this. But maybe that's just me. On an unrelated note, I love the tone of your latest videos. Keep up the good work :D

[@ashy969]

While Acheron will likely be power crept (now she's still holding it), her advantage is that any future Nihility unit will be potentially able to strengthen her. Anaxa is rumoured to be ice Nihility. Maybe more comes... Maybe they will not add anything new to her teams, but... You never know. She is an emenator and Hoyo puts great importance to lore role when designing characters (I believe, they keep buffing JY for this reason, too). But I still pulled for Acheron now (I started the game at the last days of Rappa's banner) because I love her design, lore and animations. And because she has this qol element with her technique. She will be good for general use and then, for endgame or boss fights I'll see. I pulled for Rappa, too (at pull 24). I think, she will be good with The Herta (she'll need 2 erudition members and Rappa could be a good choice as a second DPS). Also... Colours :D Following the meta is one way to play this game but for some, like me, getting characters you like is more important. I followed the meta in Genshin and now I have some characters I hate - however good they might be, they didn't worth it at the end.

[@Darck800]

In my opinion the problem with archeron is that we only have 1 character that help her a lot and that is JQ and what i mean is that if you look like a F2P archeron team like JQ, pela and gallager that team is good team but if you compare that to a ff or feixiao team ( all at E0S0 ) it falls a bit short if you dont have her lightcone, if you have her lightcone yes she is a par with those 2 but only because we only have 1 premium character for her. She is still a very strong character but she needs JQ and her lightcone to be a par with feixiao and firefly and to be honest for a f2p player or new archeron really needs more investment that those 2 needs to be so what call ``tier 0´´. And yes feixiao and firefly are more f2p friendly because feixiao can use march 7th ( free character ), moze ( best opcion f2p ), topaz ( more premium but still best sup for her ), gallager ( gives her 1.5 stacks ), ruan, robin and bronya ( all harmony ). And even Firefly is better in that because you only need ruan mei and that it. If you want to put extra pulls in any dps character i think that E2 fei and E2 firefly with no lightcone have more value that a E2S1 archeron. This is only my opinion and i love archeron more that fei and ff so yea i really hope that we get more archeron love in the future

[@saverngild_o7]

Acheron Sweats be like: 🤓"Umm, well actually you can use Robin + Gallagher with Jiaoqiu" I gotta give them credit but it's hilarious. There's no way I'm using Robin when I have a FuA comp on the other side. Anyways, Fugue will provide some degree of value if you plan on using Ruan Mei + Fugue with Acheron.

[@Darck800]

@@saverngild_o7 yea like robin its only good if you have jq and her lightcone if not then its just useless. Also yes maybe archeron super break??? But idk about fugue doing something because i think that she does not put any debuffs so... yea archeron is the only character that you cant use super break XD

[@Darck800]

Like archeron really but like really needs 1 of 2 opcions for a New suport. 1. New harmony character that is base on debuffs so that archeron ( and maybe dot but nobody cares about dot ) can get a buff that help her get her charges a lot faster or just flat out damage. 2. A nihility that is a healer so that you can use at E0S0 a free slot for any other character that you want like sparkle, sunday, robin, ruan, bronya, etc

[@saverngild_o7]

@@Darck800 Apparently, I got leaked that she does apply DEF shred... Damn leak auto-played while I was washing dishes lmao. Guess I'm gonna try Acheron SB lmao

[@saverngild_o7]

@@Darck800 Here's some cool ideas I thought of: 1.) Harmony (Debuffer): Skill: Applies a debuff on all enemies every time an action is taken (either from the team or enemies). This effect lasts for every 3 of this character's turn. (Basically JQ's ULT) Talent: Enemies that were debuffed by the Skill take... amounts of... Additional debuffs increase the... of the... applied with the Skill. ULT: Applies a debuff on the target that... This enemy takes additional... based on the amount of... from the Talent. 2.) I'd run Ruan Mei + Fugue here honestly. Break applied with additional action delay and you'll survive for a cycle or two lol. Or a follower of Elation that is a Abundance/Preservation unit which can change their path based on whose selected on the team? Skill/ULT: If Acheron is selected, this character becomes a Nihility path character for 3 turns?

[@tsubasaxo]

most of the people that are doomposting acheron are the same ones who SKIPPED HER BIS SUPPORT lmao i can now comfortably run a harmony with acheron without losing damage and stacks all at e0 thank you foxboy

[@itzTony93]

It’s pointless to try to pit FF, Acheron and Feixaio against each other lol. All three will 0 cycle, clean divergent universe v6 out, clean apocalyptic shadow at 7k+, and CAN clean pure fiction. There’s no point in putting one above the other. I have all 3 with their BIS teams and sig / eidolon investment, there’s literally no difference except I’ll say I tend to capitalize more on FF specifically for her E2 for auto battle dailies and just clearing stuff fast with no regard or thoughts, but when push comes to shove and it’s about putting boots in the mud to actually clear content that Hoyo implements with intentions to be challenging, all three of them with their teams get the job done at close enough levels that you don’t need to pit one against another.. just call them the great trio (of current HSR) if you want to talk money / gem investment, Acheron and Feixaio are way more expensive team wise to bring up to Fireflies BASELINE level of being able to clear all content than it is to just bring a firefly team up to a level of clearing all content in the game, but that doesn’t make any one of them better than any other one. It just about what you’re willing to invest and what you want your investment to look like (literally animation wise..) there’s nothing lower than a 0 cycle theres no MOC harder than 12, there’s no pure fiction currently harder than difficulty 4 theres no DU higher than V6 and so on, if you want one of the best 3 teams do your investment research check your gems and see what makes sense for you and who your favorite of the three is looks wise see if you like the team looks and animation wise because there’s little to no difference damage wise for the three girls when CORRECTLY invested in their signature teams. don’t let people tell you otherwise lol do what works best for you budget but DO your research in how much you’ll have to come off money and gem wise in comparison to the other though.

[@alanbrown901]

Lowkey heres my advice. Take it with a grain of salt but i talk with other buddies of mine that play the game way more than me and often theorize with them. Ok first things first seems like you need a sustainer for your comp. Switching lynx and gallagher around can be limited with getting another sustainer. Thus where adventurine comes in. Lowkey i had a hard time with it but i think you get adventurines signature Lightcone over acheron *Disclaimer* (if you have the resources and arent stretched money wise or jade wise ftp or whale or whatever) his signature lightcone gives his kit the much needed boost. Acheron doesn’t really NEED her signature but it definitely helps. Adventurines gives 40% def which he needs for his base kit and then gives him a whopping 40% crit dmg and gives a debuff that makes them take 100% more dmg. Guess whose kit relies on debuffs? Our purple haired swordsgal. He also just needs to be your only sustainer since he is insane. Meaning gallagher can stay on the break team and lynx can be on dhil team. Once again however my biggest advice is to go for who you want. Realistically you can meta slave all you want but if you arent having fun then whats the point. Now 3.0 and onwards If you aren’t interested in the summons meta then by all means i dont think theres a world you get sunday. While sunday is good he caters too the summons meta they will be definitely pumping out in 3.0 also dont forget theres a fate collab in the works and im guessing it will take place of either 2.8 or 2.9 since people are jumping straight to 3.0 that way you can save for any other units or reruns you want like jiaoqiu Also another thing to note, sustainers like adventurine will have a very VERY hard time getting powercrept because of how they are made so if you do get adventurine know that he will be useable for a while. Other worthwhile mentions: Out of the two units in 2.7 i feel like fugue will be your best bet because she is a great break support and generally great to have but albeit not important to your account from what i can tell face value. Maybe you get sunday but honestly i dont see it. Its not worth it if you are a ftp. The only other reason for fugue would be because shes another nihility and acheron wants nihility. Food for thought

[@Scrayla]

As a F2P, vertical investment will indeed show better results for endgame content than pure horizontal investment (I pulled for aventurine feixiao acheron and yunli's LC and it really makes a big difference). However, it is also important to play characters you WANT rather than chase the meta, as you have to build a team AROUND these characters (this is where the horizontal investment comes in). That's why I pulled yunli's LC for clara but skipped yunli HAHAHA. I stan clara through and through.

[@resy-t9382]

right now It is I am deciding between pull to S1 Acheron or get Aventurine. I have got around 90 pulls saved and I am guaranteed on character banner. Aventurine should give me faster Ults than Gallagher, give me second 2nd limited sustain, and increase my team dmg but it looks like S1 Acheron will Technical do the same thing for me. Fugue I am only planning to pull since she is Nihility. After missing the jiaoqiu banner I realized I had gathered all the other Nihility characters so I planned to continue collecting those characters.

[@saverngild_o7]

I suggest you get Acheron's Lightcone. Unless you're using FART team or struggling in "endgame content", his value's not great. If that's the case, you'll be using that guaranteed pull on Fugue. If you have E2/E6 Gallager, you'll be fine without Aventurine. We have no current information for the final results of Sunday/Fugue so best to save until their final kit is revealed in the HSR Livestreams.

[@zxcentsensei.sunder]

E2 robin E1 ruan E2S1 ff E1 topaz 82 tickets 67k jades as an f2p am I cooked?

[@Iyoverse]

You might be the opposite of cooked if you’re rocking all that as F2P. Lol

[@Songbird905]

Hardly believe that you're f2p at this point.

[@saverngild_o7]

Nah, you've been cooking.

[@dante19890]

s1 firefly is copium. Ony 10 percent increase over Aion. Prioritize e1 and e2.

[@ashy969]

9:43 - sooo... Doe sthis mean that Sunday could work wirh Rappa?

[@XenogearsPS]

Horizontal cuz the game will get boring without new characters. There are times you can skip and save but not for long. Only vertical investment I made was robin e1 because she is head and shoulders above everyone.

[@dante19890]

ye but then u have to bench the old stuff way sooner.

[@XenogearsPS]

@@dante19890 yeah but I play everyday. I’m really not going to miss benching characters I’ve been using for months.

[@dante19890]

@@XenogearsPS well as long as u constantly pull the new characters u don't have to vertically Invest

[@cherrycookie85]

I just did get Rappa and before her I had problems to clear apocalyptic shadow and pure fiction with all stars, now I did clear them and I am happy :D that is enough for me. But I will still try to get her lightcone ^^

[@devinayaz9210]

FINALLY A GOOD ACTUAL VIDEO FOR F2P I try to tell people this is my method for f2p and they think im nuts. I ALSO LOSE MY 50/50s AND IM STILL DOING GOOD cause of this!

[@dante19890]

But why would we need vertical investment in a game with no powercreep XD

[@NeoDeity]

Ey man, my Kafka team is still killing it. The newest character on it is black swan.

[@dante19890]

@@NeoDeity thnx for that status report soldier

[@saverngild_o7]

We're negatively powercreeping with this one

[@stuartroom3171]

longterm playing beats everything. i have firefly e1 and boothill s1 (the rest e0s0). with the right free to play lightcone and substats you beat everything, even if you come up close at times. investing in lightcones or eidolons is a scam unless you dont play alot. other than that go crazy with getting new characters and leaving them at e0s0 (i beat hoolay this moc with clara, talents at 8 and alright substats, but i have robin e0s0 which is still strong af so it was easy). never feel forced to invest into a character otherwise, they are all viable with maxed traces and good artifacts

[@madrain9898]

Supports are broken in this game, an E1S1 robin + E2 sparkle will carry your wind dan heng and make that dude 2-3 cycle on Hoolay. I learnt that very late, save for your supports people, only then go for dps.

[@Iyoverse]

Yeah, these supports are cracked right now. Hoyo knew what they were doing. 😅

[@BARATOS768]

I hope for getting adventurine and the bipoler girl but ill try to get shield boy first > acheron > her lightcone, i hope inshalla everyone gets what they planning too ❤

[@ImperiaI_X]

I'm gonna do this with acheron e0s1, then jiaoqiu e0s1 and if they release a dedicated sustain for acheron then their e0s1

[@donnellhopkins8879]

Like I say just go for the units on the team your trying to build. Picked up Robin with the new general to solidify my follow up team. Now I got three. Don't listen to them mfs that be doom posting.

[@saverngild_o7]

We're negatively investing with this one

[@kennethyoung7457]

If you have to give up getting new meta support than vertical investment is not worth it but if you win 50/50 or 75/25 a lot than I think its fine to go for an eidolon or sig lightcone every now and than.

[@arr_arr_arr]

8:17 is a topic. What would you say about using leaks to plan your pulls/spendings/farming etc? I think watching leaks is kind of a rabbit hole (at least I have troubles not looking at them atp) which may kill the enjoyment of pulling decisions (which it did for me). I do not necessarily state they ahould be treated like a detriment but i do think players should be aware leaks can change their enjoyment/perception of the game

[@kyrogamingvt9716]

Imo kit leaks to understand what is coming and to know what to save for, thats totally fine Story leaks are cringe af

[@set5026]

How to maximise an account:Pull fei and Robin then max Hunt March(you can go with moze too but it's Better if he's e2 or more )sustain can be whatever Gallagher Is what i use,2nd team get FF/boothill and ruan mei(get mei first)hmc last option if you run ff you can use whatever(sometimes i use pela sometimes Hunt march and when i Need to Gallagher)On boothill case max pela hmc and Gallagher (all free units you could go bronya if you have her but some people don't so let's not count It,also boothill doesn't need hmc but it's a free option)on pf max Herta for First team and himeko if you got One(i use firefly on pf too and still get Max stars regardless).Ignore acheron unless you can get her lightcone and jiaoqui otherwise don't do my mistake and hear people saying "Acheron Is broken She can clears good even without her lc" she might be hot but without those things she's garbage and she needs not only High investment on her but also high investiment on her team and since i have all those unit on ss rank except boothill (most relics are ss and sss for all of them) i don't reccomand to pull for her unless you like her or for the reason i wrote above,forgot to mention if you want a premium sustain go for aven(which im going too)this is my opinion anyone has a choice to do what they want,have a fun gaming.

[@Strixx-12]

I took a long break from the game, so my account looks like new one (F2P btw) i run only one team acheron e0s1 pela gunaifen and linghsa i also have gallagher also i have ruan mei and sparkle with bronya LC and from what i see i don't have break dps should i wait for boothill or FF or i just pull for adventurine i don't know actually kinda need help. (i have jingliu but she fell off hard that's why i can't invest in her more)

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

I usually pull e0s1, but if they function well at e0s0, i leave it(like ruan mei, jade only for pf) only pulled e1s1 sparkle cuz i love her

[@awkwardseal5476]

Thanks for the advice,got rappa+cone 3 wishes after got bailus cone so i think it mas meant to be

[@kingsfordkyeremeh-frimpong5150]

I have an E1S1 archeron and E1S0 aventurine. Im getting aventurines light cone and i also have enought to get an extra eidolon for any of them. I do play follow up teams but i also love archeron. Do i get e2 Archeron or e2 aventurine?

[@saverngild_o7]

E2 Aventurine can be subsided with E1 Robin/Ruan Mei's ULT on enemies with no Lightning Weakness. E2 Acheron holds more value; preferably, Ruan Mei can be used with Fugue to deal more toughness break + delay actions further. At this point, sustain can be subsided from the Acheron team comp. I don't know if you're using Aventurine with Acheron but he can be slotted in the other team if you do choose to get Fugue as well. Note to worth, I'm not sure how Fugue's kit will be finalized so take it with a grain of salt.

[@noherczeg]

I hope I misunderstood you recommending to skip Aventurine. Bro is best in slot for followup and I assume Acheron as well. Or in general :D

[@kolebowyer3837]

He's only best in slot for Acheron with his LC if I'm being honest.

[@spiker6892]

Trend LC tho

[@sakuseihuoshen]

I'm guessing it's because Aventurine requires him to have the lightcone?

[@kolebowyer3837]

@@spiker6892 honestly, Gepard can perform just as well with enough EHR(maybe e1, too)

[@ashy969]

Okay but you can put him into many teams and just be happy cause he's making it all comfy. And with E1 and light cone he can be a sub DPS, too

[@XenogearsPS]

I liked the last half of the video. I pulled jiaqiuo for acheron and lingsha for firefily, despite everyone saying not to pull. Acheron is still meta and is busted imo, she goes toe to toe with my fexiao fart team. I invested in her and the doomposters just said to skip jiaqiuo and it made no sense to me. You want the best supports for your main dps or waifu so why not get it?

[@tastychips3938]

I did try to pull her lightcone be ended losing the 75/100 so I got E2 with the sunday lightcone level 5 Waiting for Acheton my account is 2 weeks old

[@sdr24]

I took a long break from the game, so my account looks a lot like a new account. F2P player. Lucky enough to get Fei Xiao and Lingsha to go with my Topaz. So that’s most of the team. But I don’t have any of the five star supports like Robin, Sparkle or Ruan Mei. Probably have to settle for Asta or something. So I think that’s the beginning of a really strong team. If I decide to go for Adventurine, it’d be even stronger since he probably synergizes better than Lingsha. So I could pull for Adventurine…. But I’m also going to need a second strong team as well soon. My limited five stars are Black Swan, Fu Xuan, Seele, and Silver Wolf. I also have Gephardt, Welt and Himeko. I guess I could try building a second team around DoT with Black Swan, Guinnaifen, Tingyun, and Fu Xuan - just to use the characters I have. That might be ok… Or I could try and grab Rappa or Acheron as a second main DPS, and try and build a team around them. Not sure what’s best for the account at this point. It’s a choice between giving my account a second five star sustain - Adventurine Or giving my account a second five star carry - Acheron or Rappa - to lead a second team. Not sure which is the more solid choice.

[@kyrogamingvt9716]

Imo build superbreak himeko for second team, you have most if the components already (HMC is free and you hzve lingsha) then when Firefly, or other break units 👀 roll around youll be sitting in a great team.

[@sdr24]

@ thanks. I’ve been slow to notice Himeko. Maybe need to give her a bit of love. If that’s the case, the big value pull for my account may be another five star sustain - Adventurine - so I can have one on each team, with Adventurine pairing with Fei Xiao , freeing up Lingsha for Himeko break team (don’t have Gallagher).

[@Kaien-qf6cr]

For me the best DPS vertical investment is pull newly DPS

[@DarkHowlerz]

I was planing to get e2 DL for months, but then Sunday happened in Penacony. I'm sorry DL, I'm in the Sunday's cult now. 😂

[@oshariwindsurge1213]

While i aggre with your logic, and even say outright, pulling for meta defining support is much more important to consider, than going for meta dps i had this thought lately and i now i am kinda trying to practice that. From f2p or very light spender perspective keeping up with meta is almost impossible. You need to give up too many core units, and let's be honest you still want at least 2 core dps. Then also comes fact, that people need core Light Cones (DDD, GN Sleep well/Boundless Choreo, Charmony Fall, Swordplay to name few. Sig left on purpose for now). Because of that i'd say pull less for character, more for playstyle. Because even if comp will fall off meta, as long as core is solid, this wll still perform. Maybe not 0 cycle without serious investment, but 3 star eveything easily. And ofc in time you can invest up for that. And while this sonund simple and straightforward, there is a part, that there will be some playstyles i'd have to skip. Like there is no way i pull Sunday, even if i belive that he will be meta defining, because there will be no chance otherwise, that i will get Fugue. And already i need to catch up on Topaz for Fua and Jiaoqiu for Acheron. And because of that it looks like i will miss on entire teamcomp at least until Sunday rerun. Because of that i've reached conclusion, that if you want to remain f2p, and keep up with meta, piloting 2 accounts seems as only reasonable choice. As long as you pick theme for each account you should be able to strech resources to keep up with 2-3 chosen themes for account and be able too keep up with every comp. And because Star Rail is quite low maintenance for gacha game sound like low opportunity cost compared to benefits, you can reach with it. And with how it looks so far, old comps can keep up for at least 2 full patches, so it should be perfect (account x pulls invest in 1.0, 3.0, 5.0 playstyles or maybe goes tall with eidolons for older playstyle, while account y goes for 2.0, 4.0, 6.0 comps). Also Break sound like a perfect fallback for everyone, since core is such f2p friendly with HMC, Gallagher and M7H. Just slap chosen dps into this slot, and in future expand with Ruan Mei, Fugue or whatever else releases.

[@viralm06]

Feixiao was doomposted on the feeling that she got nerfed in beta implying more chances to be less strong than 3.X characters with e0s1... So why not save till 3.X or till their respective dedicated supports...

[@Mijoulin]

1. Vertical investment into DPS characters is not worth it atm in star rail. The reason is, every eidolon will give you 20% more damage on average, the lightcone are usually around the same value. Now in the first year of honkai star rail according to prydwen the "raw" damage of the DPS went up 300% (Seele to Acheron); and Rappas calculations tell us, that the new damage ceiling is likely to be double the raw damage of Acheron. So 20% more damage is only the powercreep of maybe 1-2 months. 2. In general DPS should not be pulled on the rerun, when they're already 6 months old, DPS get powercrept the fastest. Just look back and ask yourself how long the earlier DPS were strong after their reruns. It's maybe 2 months. Save up and go for the "new" Acheron and the "new" Firefly they will drop in 3.0 and 3.1.

[@RubyPanicked]

Wow Iyo was right on the money about Rappa

[@dante19890]

he is not being truthful about the pull value. She only make sense if u dont have any break dps and u have Ruan mei and gonna pull Fugue . For people who have a firefly team already she is the easiest skip of ur life.

[@RubyPanicked]

⁠​⁠@@dante19890I think he said Rappa is comparable to Firefly, so he’d probably agree with skipping her if you’re already happy with Firefly. But I think Rappa is going to benefit more from exo-toughness than Firefly

[@tactaillike]

New supports number 1 as per usual

[@lordzeref8175]

Having two teams (one with Acheron e0s1 - Jiaoqiu e0s1 - Aventurine e0s0 - Pela e4 and the second one of Firefly e0s0 - Harmony TB e6 - Ruan Mei e0s0 - Gallagher e6), i'm really not sure what to do with my account. I could really go with the vertical investment, but i'm really scared that with the 3.0 patch we will have another Selee/Jingliu/DHIL situation, where they release new broken dps units, and characters like Acheron/Firefly/Feixiao will become (in comparison to them) obsolete. Plus the fact that Hoyo will always 100% make new content for new characters instead for the old ones....maybe then horizontal investment is better? I really don't know. How much is the difference between two eidolons for Acheron and one new dps character with his signature? This is the question that's been bothering me...

[@chuikovdma]

e2 acheron only pops off if you have a strong harmony to support her, like sparkle, robin, or e1s1 bronya. Otherwise it's not that good. I'm leaving my copecheron team at low investment, better start preparing for a 3rd team now (servants, sunday seems to be the start.)

[@jaimecastro3194]

If you like a character, get his eidolons (eidolons make your character futureproof and almost always meta and able to clean every content), if you just like him because of meta, wait for new units cus they will be the meta on the future. For example, i didn't like Firefly too much, but i needed to pull her because she was meta and my account was new, after her i just pulled some characters here or there to make the account work and then that's it. Now i'm comfortable with my account so i can farm pulls and wait for when i really need another meta unit or just get what i want.

[@mrJones-ii7sh]

All the old units are getting buffed by Sunday. Acheron is on the same level as feixiao and break teams they would have too power creep the whole game I doubt it 😂

[@alanbrown901]

I will say this. Acherons E2 gives her WAY WAY more team building potential. With her not having to have the two nihility character requirement. Meaning you can run her with a good crit support. I disagree with the person saying you need her with a powerful harmony unit. You geniunely dont. Because at e0 her team requires 2 units to be a nihility. Meaning your last slot needs a sustainer for difficult content and then your harmony if you are confident enough to walk through stuff without her dying. She needs a sustainer more than a buffer like adventurine

[@saverngild_o7]

Honestly, save up for the newest team archetypes and decide whether or not to get them on their reruns. It's better long-term and it helps relieve the FOMO & future decisions you have to make. If the summon archetype isn't to your touch, you've successfully accumulated enough jades to get another archetype in the future that may come to your liking instead. Believe me, most of my characters are reruns. If not, they're supports or characters like Ruan Mei, Robin & Topaz. Time is a game, it's best utilized in situations in your control.

[@TheRealKitty103]

Typically I go e1s1 for all the limited characters I get then if I want e2 or s2 Ill just wait until the rerun comes out

[@DaRealSk.]

s2’s pointless

[@TheRealKitty103]

@DaRealSk. not if you get them in a 10 pull

[@lespretend]

Rappa might not be 'great' now as she doesn't have her own dedicated supports but there's a very high chance she will in the future. Can get her now and get the supports as they roll out. Being fairly new everyone tells me get Acheron but doing my own research, Acheron is going to be a heavy investment as I don't have supports for her. You get HMC for free, that's already a big plus for Rappa. Meanwhile for Acheron you're going to want two nihility. Watch, there's going to be a support that does what silverwolf does but for aoe, then everyone is going to be sad they didn't get Rappa.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

​@Merlin-k2xNah, I'm pulling Fugue for lore

[@dante19890]

E1 Fugue is her dedicated support along with Ruan mei

[@leejordan6965]

I have a question! I am going for Aventurine e0 and Acheron’s lightcone and I had some interest in Sunday. (I don’t have interest in the summon meta to be honest so I prob shouldn’t pull for him). And my question is what should I do next? I don’t have Jiaoqiu so he’s first on my radar but I also want Yunli and her lightcone since her playstyle is very fun. The teams that I currently use are: Acheron/pela/guinaifen/gallagher or lynx…firefly/ruanmei/gallagher/hamorny mc…dhil/sparkle/tingyun/lynx. Would you be able to offer me any further tips on what I should focus on?

[@saverngild_o7]

Don't know if it'll help but I'll reply. Sunday should be benched since you already have a second team for "endgame content" (Superbreak). You can always pull on his rerun when summon becomes an archetype you enjoy playing. Fugue has potential because she's a Nihility character. She can also work with your Superbreak team. Jiaoqiu should be considered after you decide whether or not Fugue brings more "value/fun" to your account. Fugue (Firefly): If you decide to use Fugue on the superbreak team then you can swap out Gallagher and place him in your Acheron team. At that point, you won't need sustain for superbreak. Fugue (Acheron): If you use her on your Acheron team, just be mindfull of her final kit. If she has debuffs, great! If she doesn't it might be a little troublesome. Again, Aventurine's value varies because of the (If) Fugue situation. If you're using Gallagher with Acheron because you chose to use Fugue on the other team, then Aventurine should be benched along with Sunday. Hope it helps.

[@someoneidkwho860]

if I have a firefly should i roll for second super brake dps like boothil or rappa for a double dps team or should i pull for Fuge

[@protolight1654]

excited for the we can make 2 teams of super break rappa and firefly but both are fighting for the maincharacter

[@protolight1654]

19:00 he denied houhou?! bruh, when dot is rolling back around, remember us.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

​@@protolight1654 That sucks, Lingsha and Huohuo are currently the best supports rn unless you're running a mono-quantum like me

[@dante19890]

If u get Fugue e1 u can play two good superbreak teams

[@Twigggggy]

lingsha is a damage dealer than can heal

[@Iyoverse]

Facts. lol

[@vault29a]

gallagher is still rank 1.

[@TieflingUnshackled]

Rappa got the Boothill Treatment and I am skipping her because she's TOO cringey imo. I feel bad both characters ARE GOOD but they get stuck between broken ass characters Boothill had Firefly right after. Rappa had Acheron right after. People take tier lists TOO seriously so they see Rappa isn't "Apex" and think she's LITERALLY THE MOST USELESS. Which sucks... I started recently and trying to cobble shit together feels really bad. Characters like Firefly suck because they are "broken" forget the caveat *YOU NEED THESE THREE OTHER CHARACTERS* Acheron in a similar boat.

[@Pack52022]

Damn whenever i see acheron or kafka i click so fast 😂

[@InverseHSR]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. people who doompost Acheron are the same people who doompost Jiaoqiu, skipping him, and then bitching about their Acheron dealing mid ahh damage. Hoyo hand fed them Acheron's literal buff and they refuse to take it, yet still wondering why their Acheron feels miserable.

[@SageOfLimitlessHands]

Real talk shpupd i go for acheron s1 or rappa s1?

[@siege_sensei]

I tried to pull Lingsha but I missed so rip me lol. I think I'll try for acheron's weapon

[@davidfrost5995]

S1 is better than e1 for every dps, and the opposite for all supports

[@Dreamingdragoncat]

I fluffed up. I forgot what a s1 means so I pulled for a second and now I got two of them… what do I do?

[@dante19890]

Curse ur own stupidity

[@resy-t9382]

Bruh people are coping. The toughness type ignorers Acheron/Rappa/Fia or Weakness implanter dps Fire fly, boothill in my opinion are brute forcers. Since all of them can inflict weakness break (one of the most important mechanics in the game) that can only be ignored with the cracked investments. It doesn't matter which one you get as long as you have at least one of them two team game modes are easiers to build.

[@dante19890]

its just that for break charactes implant is much better than off element toughness chip dmg that Rappa has.

[@godle33thegreat12]

Hey im rather new to the game, i do have 2 teams, im trying to build one being feixiao and Topaz, and my 2nd team would be super break with rappa. Im thinking about getting aventurine for my foa team and fugue for my rappa team. Skip sunday completely since he doesn't really fit my 2 teams. Do you think that's best i can for now? Or should i go about it differently?

[@Iyoverse]

Both of those would be amazing choices for your account. Sunday could be useful for your FUA team, but Robin would be more ideal if you already have her. The FUA team is strong on their own without an AV unit, but the AV unit greatly improves their turn advantage.

[@godle33thegreat12]

@Iyoverse I don't have robin, but I do have bronya. Not sure if she's a decent enough replacement?

[@marcoswanepoel507]

Hello, I have a question So I have seele, jing yuan and bailu(returning player). Do you recommend that I summon for acheron, aveturine or just skip?

[@satoukazuma5958]

If your only sustains are Bailu and Natasha, highly Recommend Aventurine. If Seele and Jing Yuan are your only 5-star DPS, Acheron would be good (especially if you go for LC and/or E2), but I'd wait to see what characters are rerunning next patch.

[@marcoswanepoel507]

@@satoukazuma5958 thank you for the help Sadly I can't go for E2 and stuff like that because I am f2p and want to use my gems on new characters rather than dupes

[@sakuseihuoshen]

Honestly, I'd recommend you skip them and wait for either; Fugue/Sunday

[@sakuseihuoshen]

I recommend skipping, since Sunday can carry your Jingyuan

[@saverngild_o7]

Pulling for Acheron might pose a problem. Unless you're planning to wait for Fugue/Jiaoqiu, then consider benching her. It might sound strange to bench a good DPS but if you're suffering because Jing Yuan/Seele can't clear the content you want them to clear. At than point, it's time to think about getting supports for the characters you have with the limited amount of stellar jades you can accumulate. I know Acheron scales higher in damage (than Jing Yuan/Seele) but I'd rather recommend you to have fun with the characters you have. Sunday is a good recommendation for Jing Yuan and I highly consider it unless you're short on funds/stellar jades. Aventurine should be considered. You'll most likely run into issues with Simulated Universe (and their various game modes) so he's definitely a solid choice. Again, don't take my advice at face value. Think it over once the livestream of Sunday/Fugue comes out. Hope it helps.

[@keanesn.1513]

agreed with Rappa take

[@zomaza4961]

I have all harmony in the game with ruan mei e1, and i have the follow-up team. Except advanturin should I get him or should i get acharon don't have any sustain execpt gallager and gebard and i have silver wolf but no jiaoqui

[@jaimecastro3194]

you had a stroke mid comment

[@ClumsyAce]

get aventurine, Acheron in your explanation you didn't mention anything about nihility so yeah get your aventurine

[@NohrScum]

I stopped playing last year, does anyone have any advice on who to pull for ? I built my account around Kafka and JingLiu with bailu and bronya as other notable 5*s.

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

Kafka needs black swan to get some potential but dot is kinda screwed outside pf, but its rumoured we will have an addition to a dot so for kafka try to snipe that future support and black swan if you want dot For jingliu, she is kinda screwed, also she got a new set at 2.6,but if you wanna make her a bit work, sunday or bronya might work, sunday better due to 2 turn which also synergise well with jingliu advance forward Also there is a summon meta coming soon you can also save for that and build a complete team. Don't get into break unless you have ruan mei. You will heavily regret it.

[@NohrScum]

@dreamsandhopes6802 Thank you for the pointers. it's much appreciated! I'll probably end up saving up for Black Swan and Fugue

[@dante19890]

Get Sunday in 2.7 and Aglea in 3.0 and build a summon team. Its gonna be stronger than the other stuff

[@RudeRobin21]

Im saving for Adventurine

[@devilassassin9385]

Just getting the newest greatest characters and sometimes thier lightcones is still enough to absolutly annihilate the endgame, but for this to work I usually skip all reruns entirely I think f2p should not go for eidolons , lcs can always be shifted between characters and more characters= better team options. For example if i have acheron and firefly teams then i would rather replace my acheron team with feixiao team instead of veritcally investing on either of the old ones

[@SenMid]

I disagree wholeheartedly You don't sound f2p you sound like you spend Cuz if you were f2p you'd understand that what your saying is practically inconceivably for majority of players I'll never understand why people always want to drop their previous toy for a new one when they can always shine the old toy and make them look equally as appealing as the new one Lmao

[@yearsnyears9488]

Every patch your granted at least one new 5 star BRO it’s not that difficult

[@jaimecastro3194]

@@SenMid The new toy is new, that is why

[@XenosZombie]

​@@SenMid The logic is basically, older characters need E1,E2,S1 to keep up. Newer characters are fine at E0S0, maybe E0S1, E1S0 to keep up. Following this logic you should just pull for newer characters. Maybe even also ignore signature lightcones for specific characters, and just get versatile signature lightcones that should work for other characters in the same path. It kinda works. My account that's entirely F2P basically follows this approach. Though currently I've to decide to vertical invest into teams or just save for new teams or get versatile LCs. But I've had no problems full clearing endgame content for the past 4-5 months.

[@SenMid]

@XenosZombie again I don't support or acknowledge this mindset cuz I have done it and that shii was the worst imo I got to the point where I was purely focused on what's the new best thing and abandoned characters I actually liked for characters I could care less about I play these games f2p so as to pass time or think sometimes so playing characters I like is 10x better than getting the new best thing imo Id rather go vertical on older characters over getting newer ones because the newer ones will always become old characters a patch after so you enter this endless cycle of tryna play catch up and I ain't down for that if you are good luck Imma stay here with the characters I truly like regardless of how the meta perceives their value

[@Tortnad0]

So I guess traces are horizontal

[@nachokage6214]

I NEED SOME DOT SUPPORT. PLEASE MIHOYO RELEASE ONE AND I'LL THROW MONEY PLEASE

[@Iyoverse]

Facts! I need DOT to start critting before Super Break does.

[@theddeus514]

14:08 LMFAO

[@yeezytrump1474]

Leveling your trace to 10/10 is overrated,

[@ShiroClouds]

negative investment coming soon

[@lego6192]

o7 Panda

[@abitsaagane8433]

I started two months ago, I only Robin, bronya, as my harmony characters

[@dante19890]

Just save ur jades for 3.X and focus on playing the game.

[@thelastgamurai]

🧌