How to Measure Subwoofer Performance

[@BrianHensleyRULES]

As an oscilloscope designer.... You're speaking my language. Frequency response. Measurement Analysis methodologies. Group delay. Hating brick wall filters.... Love it!

[@USMC-es4yy]

Love how the dude in the red shirt has his biceps so perfectly positioned!! Cracks me up!

[@petervankeuren6644]

I have a VERY old Miller & Kreisel Mil K-1 12" sub. It is at least 50 years old. About 10 years ago, the outer surround gave out, so I had it re- coned by Orange County Speaker. They did a fabulous job - no one could ask for better. I have a DBX 2020 spectrum analyzer which shows that I regularly go down to the teens with no audible distortion. I have kick drum that pounds on your stomach, cleanly. I also inherited a Spatial Coherence Preamp, that I only recently discovered that there were only 400 ever made. It is the sweetest sounding preamp I've ever heard, if not apparently the most dangerous. It has no power switch, and I've read that you need to plug it in and wait 20 to 30 minutes before anything else is plugged in. I guess it can produce bad transients which are bade for your speakers, so I've read. Anyway, I've had it for almost 20 years now with no issues at all. It is on a UPS, given that the power in this little town is supplied by the BIA. Need I say more? I read that this preamp was made in 1979, and sold for $1200. I recently saw one on the internet for sale for $1600. I also saw one for $250. I'm not sure that seller knows what he has. Anyway, the rest of the system is a DH500 Hafler amp driving two Mordaunt-Short MS45Ti in the front, with two small Cerwin-Vega LS5 speakers in the back, wired in an ambient loop using a Dynaco QD1 to create the loop.

[@Headphoneaddict]

These sorts of videos are awesome. Been going through all of your related videos with great interest and glad to hear that the audio quality of the later videos are much improved. Please continue doing educational videos like these. Also like the dynamic between the two of you, and bet Hugo does all the lifting when optimizing subwoofer placement or taking them out to measure, no? LOL!

[@Audioholics]

Thx for the great compliments. Yes we are continuously looking to improve production quality of our videos as you've observed. Yes with my back issues now, I try to get Hugo to do the heavy lifting whenever possible but I'm often impatient and still lift the 100+lbs subs and regret doing so the next day ;)

[@josealfredfernandes]

@@Audioholics what about all in one systems? LG OK99?

[@anthonypoepoe3553]

Good video guys👍👍👍👍 dont forget leg day!!!

[@phrosda]

The small talk between these two is so corny but lots of great info. Thanks for sharing your videos.

[@michaelruggiero8284]

Great video! Does anybody know the song in the beginning? Burnin !

[@wandatepedino]

Which is the minimum size of the venue room for deploying and playing a 18 inch subwoofer? Or are they way better playing throughout outdoor venues?

[@frankjames4573]

If subs are used and set up properly, they add a warmth to the music spectrum! I wouldn't be without one! Or two for that matter!

[@wandatepedino]

What do you think about powered subwoofers sound reinforcement, like, let me think about some common brands, Yamaha DXS Series, JBL PRX Series, Electrovoice Elx Series? Is true that they only work well at a high output volume?

[@Trdat]

You guys didn't mention Qtc? I say this because I built a DIY sub aiming for .707 got .73 used the cheapest Dayton Sub woofer driver DCS305-4 and it significantly outperformed my SVS SB1000. I don't want to knock down SVS there service is great and yes there SB1000 outperforms all mid priced subs, but there was huge hump at the lower end of the frequency scale which I am guessing is due to a higher Qtc rating in turn causing excessive boomy-nes. My DIY sub had a flatter frequency curve with a typical roll off a lower Qtc has, the DIY gave much tighter bass and overall just sounded better. For a final test I placed the SVS driver in the DIY box and I still got that boomy-nes, yes it sounded significantly better but still no where near the transients and punch of the DIY. I also used the same Plate amp. I know most of this is subjective but I did perform a dirty measurement 1 meter away. That said, is the Dayton driver significantly better? Is the DIY box thicker and less resonant? Does Qtc make that much difference? OR is the $500 price range of subs purposely not going to provide us with a descent sub woffer to sell more expensive ones? And yes, if Qtc has a large part to play then it will be great if you can add that in one of your next videos although we understand it well, we can still learn a lot from testing(if exists), understanding or having specification when talking about subs... Regards Please enlighten us!

[@TheJosa007]

There is nothing more beautiful than to look at a base cone going in and out.

[@rolyduarte8343]

What do you think overall about SVS subwoofers

[@sarikaoad4650]

Hi team, I need some help. I have a neighbour who has woofers on. We live in a townhouse. So there is a common wall. When he has woofer on ...our walls are vibrating. Could you please what's the best way to measure vibration of the woofer , so I can let my strata know....pls help!!!!

[@davidh628]

have you or others tested the DYI tec ingredients panel speakers?

[@JoeTjoepJoep]

Is that Lou Ferrigno?

[@nebtheweb8885]

Hell no. Lou is 65 years old. www.fitnessandpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/lou-ferrigno.jpg

[@dayv7432]

haha we all thought it

[@charlieball9569]

Hans and Franz here to pump you up!

[@viperracing2889]

His son possibly 😆

[@6spdkeg]

Probably his son. His mom just hasn't told him yet.

[@sweetsweatyfeet]

Subwoofer are probably the most difficult pieces of audio gear to design. The complex interactions of multiple bass frequency wave lengths with room dimensions and boundary effects is going to create a series of reinforcements and standing waves in most any room. Translated this means bass is an unpredictable roller coaster ride in the vast majority of rooms unless you employ DSP equalization and room treatment. Even then a DSP corrected response will only be valid for a given area it's tested in. Room treatment goes some way as does multiple positioning of several subwoofers and a lot of trial and error can yield dividends but never perfection. Good bass is not just about quantity and extension of bass. Enclosure designs should be well damped (Q=.7 or less) combined with ability to move lots of air (large cone area) combined with low harmonic distortion (again large cone area). Subjectively there should be good pitch definition, ability to track multiple bass frequencies, dynamic range and of course extension to the lower limit of human hearing. Most sub-woofers are abysmally bad. Only a handful of woofers can offer true 20 hz extension, damped flat response, wide dynamic range and low distortion. Excluding rotary subwoofers the best unequalized conventional subwoofer I've heard was the Entec servo controlled SW1s. They could do every I described very well with no apparent weaknesses. Their bragging rights claimed the servo mechanisms lowered distortion many times that of any other subwoofer.

[@undertaker4518]

i have a velodyne va 1210 sounded crazy good could knock stuff of the wall shelves. sadly it died. so i replaced it with a optimum 10 and have to say it is supposedly more powerful but doesn't begin to have the punch? i cant seem to get the auto eq to work? also what phase is best or what do you think i might be doing wrong? or is this just an inferior sub? thanks for the help great job

[@scottlowell493]

Cheap subs are decried as being "One note". What measurement would separate the toys from the quality subs that are articulate? Is it that cheap subs tend to have a bloat at 60-80hz?

[@sumitagg1]

What do you guys recommend for subwoofers for music. Looking at REL

[@Chrissy4605]

Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. I just saw the subwoofer and click on it after I opened youtube.

[@hdmoviesource]

Hi Hi, if 75db is measure at 80hz, what should 20hz measure? I want to get an idea of what volume per 10 Hz should be. 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30 and 20 hz. I have 2X SUB3030, and I've run the auto EQ and the subs are too loud if I set them to 75db like the rest of the system. I'd like to use parametric EQ to lower the bass below 40hz I think Do you have any test patterns or test tones that can help me set my up mu subs better, please?

[@pedroluisguillemain5683]

Hello. Thanks for the video. I liked it a lot. Could you give us the results of the different subwoofers you have tested? I cant find it on your website. Thank you!

[@williammontoya8435]

hi I need your opinion I just got a denon 3313ci and trying 2 build my 7.2 surround sound I'm leaning towards definitive technology pro 1000 and get 2 pro 800 subs what you think ? its going 2 be in a 20x20 room .

[@intoitreviews]

Thoughts between a rythmik f12-300 and hsu vtf-2 mk 5? I'm really having a hell of a time deciding. I have a definitive super cube 1 in the room as well, and the room opens up to the kitchen. The overall room size is most likely over 3000 cubic feet. Not sure if I should go for the servo control (sealed) or for the ported non-servo controlled (hsu). Room is used for both 5.2.2 HT and 2.2 Stereo listening. Theil CS 2.2. main L./R. Can you solve my conundrum?

[@Cash2112]

I really appreciate your channel. Some of us still enjoy 2-channel stereo, and I actually have both a "home theater room" and a "2-channel room" when I really need to kick out the jams. I'd like to add at least one subwoofer to my old school 2-channel system. So, what's the best way to connect a subwoofer to a vintage 2-channel pre-amp with no dedicated low pass SUB OUT RCA Jack?

[@Audioholics]

+Cash2112 either preamp line level outputs and using the sub's built in LPF or speaker level wired in parallel with your mains assuming your sub has speaker level inputs.

[@farheezil]

I really want to get this stuff...but this is greek to me. Plus how do you ground test a column sub like an svs pc12 plus?

[@Mabeylater293]

What's the name of the intro tune? Sounds good:-)

[@andrepensophotography1884]

Any chance on testing the JTR Cap 1400? Did not see it on the spreadsheet. Thank you.

[@bigstusoccer]

Could I get away with using the Polk audio psw10 with my Fluance XL5FDW tower speakers or would the sub not be noticeable? Thanks

[@Dylantrugg]

Hello Audioholics Team, Great video! I'm a year late to the party it seems, but I did have one question concerning subwoofers. How do you guys feel about adding a sub to the left and right channel for home theater use? Two subs total, one for the left speaker and one for the right. No dedicated LFE channel. I'm aiming for a true full range 2 channel setup, setting the subwoofers to low pass.

[@Audioholics]

Dylan Thomas we are big fans of multi-sub. Check our videos and articles on the topic.

[@tone92565]

i cant stop looking at that sub lol

[@robertdouglas4414]

This is a cool video, have you tested an RBH 1010SEP?

[@Audioholics]

Robert Douglas NOT with CEA2010 data but that used to me my reference sub for years until I upgraded to their Status Acoustics speakers. Great performer for its size and price.

[@95Sn95]

I have 2 subs (with basically 2 spots in the actual living room) 1 spot under the tv and 1 to the right in the corner. 1 sub is the BIC pl200 an actual home theater sub the other is a car sub box and descreat new fad smooth dust capless black cone driver with only a cerwin vega logo vs flash bright driver logos and colors on a powered remotely mounted 100w plate amp I have yet to strip the carpet paint the box and add feet. Anywho I built a 37" aluminum stand slightly angled back 1" in 14" and screwed to the floor and the box ( I have bamboo flooring for it but at the moment my floors are exposed plywood ) as an experiment to see if mounting a sub off the floor would change the performance, it seems to sound better but hard to tell, one issue is the aluminum stand which uses a 2x4 square tube for the riser picks up resonance and vibrates to the touch if u even knock on the box you can feel it probably negatively affecting the sound maby no difference but I just assume it does... But it seems to make the sound hit my ears better up there? Does look really cool and makes it look less car esk. I was trying to think of something that would eliminate the resonance in the stand thought maby expanding foam in the tubing and as far as filling it with sand. Maby it is only because it's screwed to the box n to the floor but its for stability for time being. Having 2 subs sounds great even tho there not matched. Any suggestions or input on the whole thing?

[@michaelangeloh.5383]

Actually, I sit almost exactly 1 meter away from the subwoofer, but it's not that large and the system has been tweaked to sound balanced anyway. The problem then is just that it start to be kind of weak when you're farther away. I just set it properly for when I get really up close to the screen for movies or games, but I (and the family or visitors) don't sit there when watching something in a more casual way. - That's fine, though, as most of the time the system goes into stereo (2.0) mode anyway, which is more than enough noise.

[@roco9504]

How do I measure how deep my sub gets? I used REW and see my graph, but at what point do I say, “okay I’m not going to count that because it already dropped off to much” I did 20db off the peak. Is that fair ? Just curious on paper how deep my subs get in room.

[@danmal7862]

public address amplifiers, woofers , speakers vs hi fi. any sound quality different?

[@DanielDuedu]

What is your opinion on SVS' SB16 subwoofer. Thinking of buying one

[@jimolson9671]

Daniel Duedu I purchased two of the SP 16 ultras. They are the finest subwoofers I have ever owned! There are an unbelievable bargain. If you buy two you get a discount of $200. I am retired military they gave me an additional $200 discount. There was no tax! I paid a whopping $3600 for two subwoofers that in my Pinyan are would be a bargain at that price for each one! Holy musical

[@DanielDuedu]

Jim Olson Thanks will do

[@sissy1234hhh]

Why is the guy on the right side all ways a YES man?

[@bitmap1638]

+sissy1234hhh because he is the VICE president, his job is to sit there and say yes all the time. Also the president should never degrade himself by asking 'yes man' how he is doing today.

[@TubeSwarn]

I doubt the guy in red T understand any of what Gene is saying :D

[@Belfor09]

Damn man.. Hugo's been liftin!

[@krane15]

Liftin those heavy subwoofers gains.

[@Cash2112]

Question: What's the best way to connect 2 to 4 subwoofers to an AVR with only one SUB OUT jack?

[@Audioholics]

+Cash2112 The easy way is to get a Y-Splitter and connect each sub in parallel. Another option if your subs have in/out line level would be to daisy chain them in series. The optimal though more comples way would be to get a DSP box from MiniDSP and use it to individually set level, delay, and PEQ function. We will do a video explaining this. Thanks for the question.

[@booobtooober]

+Audioholics When you use Y splitters is the signal to each individual sub diminished or degraded lowering the output/spl vs A single line to a single sub?

[@Audioholics]

+booobtooober No it shouldn't since its a passive connection and going into high impedance amplifiers.

[@VisnitchiRaul]

What about air temperature/presure? What about wind?

[@jgiddings9323]

im new to the world of hifi but how do I make sure I can have an AV, sub and bookshelf/centre/tower speakers all working together without any issues, in ohms db etc..?

[@Billy123bobzzz]

Buy an all-in-one system, the factory matches everything for you.

[@krane15]

@@Billy123bobzzz True then, still true today.

[@droidzhunterz6861]

My subwoofer driver never moves, but it sounds great. Am I doing something wrong? I guess you have to play insanely loud for it to happen.

[@Airbigbawls]

It can make sound and not move. Well, it's moving but you don't see it. Because it's not moving back and forth enough for you to see it. I'm sure if you played it very loudly you could see it move.

[@silversurfer8283]

What has been the best testing result subwoofer by your test these days?

[@arongatt]

Hi Gene, have a question. I have a relatively mid-size room and have a sub klipsch r15 and I need more bass now cos my setup was in a small room before and bass was good. Now it is lacking a bit. Should I get the same sub to match or can I get another different sub like an svs pb2000 and try to match them with dsp?

[@ChrisMSepulveda]

If you don't have much space. Can a sub go to the side of your bed?

[@Billy123bobzzz]

Yes

[@l-skywalker-l2081]

I know that most Subwoofers have their own amplifiers built in, but is the sub output on every amplifier the same? So that once a subwoofer is tested for performance would it sound the same or perform the same on every amplifier? Or is there different wattage sub outputs on certain amplifiers there for changing the performance of a subwoofer on different amplifiers?. Thanks

[@Airbigbawls]

It mainly will stay the same. But when your amp or receivers wattage is too little, it will start to effect performance.

[@krane15]

They're measuring the result, not what it goes through to get there.

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Linearity baby! Yeauh!

[@XaviAG13]

The subwofer of the left side moves but it is not listened :o

[@Audioholics]

We were playing a continuous 15Hz sweep through it to add a nice visual effect to the video.

[@justinbeamon6624]

AudioholicsLIVE Haha yes that was pretty cool. Great Video!

[@michaelkaupert5672]

Audioholics that's exactly what I guessed. Cool stuff. You're often my anchor for relevant info. To be honest, I've been educated by many of your videos and articles, but this one wasn't new info to me. I watched the whole video to see if you would mention anything about the sub playing on the left haha. Keep up the good work!

[@meowza3k]

I need a glossary

[@nissangt-r4138]

Hey guys I need help I have a two channel setup in my house I only use it to listen to music I have a classe preamp a classe CD player primare two channel power amp furman power conditioner chord signature speaker cables and a pair of paradigm Studio reference floor speakers okay now you know what my setup is my question is can I add a powered subwoofer to my setup?? Some people think it's better to have a powered subwoofer and so I asked my hifi store and he said No I was told that powered subwoofers are used for home theater for movies not music listening can please help Danny

[@Billy123bobzzz]

Borrow one from the dealer, install it, set the crossover correctly, move it around to find the best location and then enjoy the sound. For many years before home theater became a thing we used subwoofers to extend the low bass response of our stereo systems and it worked extremely well. Maybe you should find a better dealer. LOL

[@TheJonazas]

I sit 0.5 meters away from my sub lol

[@jamesbutler606]

I know the feeling, mine is just over 2mtrs away from my sofa. Not everyone has american size houses!

[@birgerolofsson2347]

I have mine in my knee.

[@navinmnrk]

my room size is 200squarefeet can I buy Logitech z906 speaker for my pc

[@Audioholics]

You can buy anything that makes you happy. Good luck.

[@viktorhate5842]

,, i hope no one listen the sub from 2 m away'' ... well , what if i have a small rooman for my HT? what if 2m is the longest distance i can have?

[@FlyCat-cb8fz]

how does the room size rating matter since its going to peak in the corners of the room because of acoustics, certain parts of the room will have more bass than others, peaky in the corners and flat response in the middle

[@Audioholics]

Fly Cat 1154 that's why you employ multiple subs. Corner loading 4 subs provides incredibly uniform response for all seats.

[@phrosda]

Omg that music was such a mess. Lol I'd love for you guys to make and test the Hammer 12 inch sub by home theater gurus and compare it to something competitive in the marketplace.

[@fredygump5578]

why is the one sub playing? Must be 10hz or something?

[@jamesbutler606]

It would be nice if you didn't use jargon or at least explained the jargon you use. Not everyone is a hifi nerd and the acronyms and shorthand is confusing.

[@DCUPtoejuice]

7:55 I just spent 10 minutes trying to find this spreadsheet and no luck.

[@Audioholics]

It's attached to EVERY subwoofer we review and tech article we wrote to this protocol but also attached here: www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/powered-subwoofer-testing-outline-and-procedures-overview/Audioholics%20Excel%20compilation-062613.pdf

[@DCUPtoejuice]

AudioholicsLIVE great! thank you. Looking at Outlaw's downfiring...

[@Legionere]

Would love it if you would review some of these www.tobyspeakers.com/cube-14.html Toby Speakers is kindof a local legend in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. But I'm curious how they stack up.

[@music9556]

the smaller the room the the bigger the output at the lows. the room dictates bass dbs.

[@jimhamlin6551]

its 2021 now Where on earth is Hugo??

[@Audioholics]

We wish we knew. :(

[@Billfish57]

I like listening to these guys, but I don't know why, I'm sure I will learn something useful but I never do, it's me, not them, I just never hear anything new or something I can apply to my world. Too many stats I'll never put to use. I guess because I'm pretty much done buying stuff, I've been so happy for so long, the only big new thing I haven't done is go with he latest greatest atmos processor and I don't think I will sense my 7.1 system already sounds so darn good. Maybe when Hollywood brings up their game, I might but they put out so much crap these days, I see maybe six new movies a year worth inviting company over to watch. It's bad right now for movies.

[@davidcole2337]

When you uses a Testing Procedure that is not Industry Standard you can sku it to be bias towards what you sell...

[@Audioholics]

that's why our testing procedure is standard and we sell nothing :)

[@krishtrinity]

www.thonet-vander.com/sw10.html What do you think of this subwoofer?this is the only subwoofer that I could find where I live at reasonable price.I really liked the build in the pics and Germans are suckers for quality or so I heard

[@tedtimmis8135]

You might look at Hsu. You can get a beautiful 15 inch sub for under a grand.

[@musgrovebarry]

That background, is this a child's/ young person's Bedroom from the 70's? Anyway was just listening to a guy who openly admits he is a SVS affiliate, he said he wouldn't listen to anything duel less than the pb1000 a pair $950 I'm hoping you might say, you can do it for less.

[@Audioholics]

No it's not a child's bedroom but thanks for the insult ;)

[@musgrovebarry]

Sorry, your welcome:)

[@juanbaclavab]

most subwoofers are too big, heavy and boomy. better get a sealed small one or a in wall one

[@joeytruelove]

+DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME ANYMORE, SERIOUSLY! Size usually translates to performance though. Should you find your sub to be boomy sounding you're likely experiencing a node in your room. This is likely down to positioning of the sub, or there's some sub sonic anomalies that clutters your sound (this is why I tend to suggest subs that go to perhaps 25Hz -3dB). I would second your suggestion of going with a sealed sub as these usually sound tighter and offers better timing.

[@krane15]

Exactly. But most people don't know any better.

[@varunahlawat9013]

Max. Make only 2:00 mins video at most

[@stickgs]

What about how it sounds? Geez, specs, graphs, charts, crossovers, etc. Just tell me how the damn thing sounds for basic TV, music, or DVDs, or movies.

[@max311955]

cosa c"e di vero nel suono di un subwoofer? OLTRE LA DISTORSIONE .

[@dalerogers2490]

Sad they are on you tube.

[@mikebradbury7003]

I just lost 13 minutes of my life.

[@Audioholics]

+Mike Bradbury Sorry, we can explain things to you but we can't learn them for you.

[@camelazo]

+Mike Bradbury Maybe you need to listen more bass i love you and less audioholics! ;)

[@protoman247]

Audioholics sick ass burn

[@deanlindsay3155]

spend 13 min more looking for it dummy

[@stikupartist3]

HaHa! "Base head".

[@aspjake123]

Love the info but stop with the pop ups onscreen please.

[@krane15]

You mean the logo? That thing is annoying.

[@brauliofloresjr]

Do away with the script and spit knowledge. Sounds too rehearsed.

[@Audioholics]

The fact that you think we use a script or rehearse our videos is a compliment to the amount of knowledge we can share off the top of our heads in a fairly concise and accurate manner. Thank you but we don't use scripts, nor do we rehearse our videos prior to shooting.

[@dennisdeacon5340]

Rick F Rick, I think you are being too cynical here. Someone is providing a valuable service and you are hung up on the presentation. I enjoyed the presentation myself. Just because you do not, it should not cause you to question their sincerity.

[@justkiddin1980]

***** i thought exactly the same thing...looks like lou ferrigno....

[@bretmuldner]

brauliofloresjr There are ALL ways some cry baby that just has to open there big mouth! Go wine some where else!

[@krane15]

False. True professional ALWAYS use a scrip. They also have everything timed down to the seconds. Why do yo think they never hear them say "umm" during a newscast/broadcast/etc.?

[@dalerogers2490]

13 minutes of useless info

[@poolboy3653]

These nerds talk way to much and when they're not talking they're just nodding at one another

[@RandomTessellate]

Gene - no offense, drop Hugo,. +views. Does Hugo do anything other than acknowledge you (yes, mmhmm, lol, correct, yes, mmhmm, yes good point, mmhmm yes), never mind he sounds scripted and visually there strong arm people into subscribing at the end of each video? At least get someone who fully appreciates audio. You know, It's really hard to have a one sided conversation.

[@khurram88]

Don't diss on Hugo, people like Hugo.

[@tedtimmis8135]

Hugo serves an important role in these videos. If Gene is Johnny Carson, then Hugo is the Ed McMann of Audioholics.

[@krane15]

But what of Ed McMahon, and hundred others?

[@krane15]

@@tedtimmis8135 LOL, 4 years later and that was my first thought too.