How to NOT Master Your Tracks Pt2

[@Bthelick]

clarification: I did mention a limiter at the very end , that was a section that got cut from the video just showing how all the hard work was already done and now a limiter only makes it sound slightly worse. So just to be clear there is no limiter used. There is no clipper used either. As explained in the first video any export to a file format that is not 32bit floating point will be clipped. (We are already hearing the clipped signal the 'overs' shown in the DAW are estimates and not really happening, see first video)

[@Igor_Shvets77]

This actually works🤘🏻😮🤘🏻I'm yet to render and put it to some real test. Appreciate the time and you've taken to clarify🙏

[@Karl_Hogarth]

Do you use any clippers on busses or individual tracks?

[@Bthelick]

@@Karl_Hogarth no, that makes any subsequent clipping much worse

[@hulioonyoumusic]

Hi! Your videos are really informative and straightforward! I have a question.. What about the LUFS at the end. As we know, in today's music industry, "Louder" has won every time. How to reach at least -8 LUFS with this technique? Because even when Ableton shows 6db over 0 in master section, it is still not loud enough. Does it have to do with mixing the right LUFS with Kick+Bass in the very beginning? Thank you!

[@Bthelick]

@hulioonyoumusic the video is about not looking at numbers, I said in the video "notice how I never had to check my lufs" . 6 over zero tells you nothing because those are peak numbers. You might have one track that is 1 over zero and it's -6 lufs and another tracks that's 10 over zero and -9 lufs, the two are not related. We can not make better music looking at numbers. As I said in the video I never have to check the lufs of my track because I've been referencing using my ears. And also as I say in the video lufs doesn't mean much because it can be fooled, two tracks which sound like the same loudness could have different lufs levels because of all kinds of factors, like something as simple as the bass rhythm. Because Longer bass notes can give you higher lufs, so again it's just another number that doesn't equate to music. Loudness does not "win" . Good tracks win. One of the biggest tracks last year was pawsa , sounds terrible by engineering standards but goes off with a crowd because it was so different. People are not signing tracks or putting them in sets because of lufs measurements. Please let go of chasing numbers. You probably can't get to -8 because you're chasing loudness instead of punch and groove., and you're clearly not referencing enough, or you wouldn't have to check the numbers.

[@sebrosamusic]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Ben is the best teacher ever! Ignore that red meter, focus on your ears and reference, reference, reference! 🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@memecoinmafia2732]

wheres the vid that shows how to do the referencing thing ?

[@sebrosamusic]

@@memecoinmafia2732search for Bthelick “The 3 R's: 3 Simple Rules For Better Tracks” 🤟

[@Historyhitstime]

@memecoinmafia2732 Just pull a track into your ableton, set it on out, and then throw a span on the audio track with the sing you chose to use as a reference.

[@unvaryingArchive]

Cap

[@The.ARCHIT3CT]

@@sebrosamusic Ive been a professional engineer for 30+ years. Ive worked for D&D in NYC, Patchwerk in ATL, and even assisted in instructional courses at Full Sail. This in unequivocally the wrong way to go about a master. While yes, using a reference track is helpful, your ear alone cant detect certain aspects that analyzers can. The KEY to a proper mix to create sound pockets so your eq’s dont wash each other out. There is no shortcut or technique that will magically do it for you. It takes YEARS of practice and an understanding of your equipment’s capabilities and/or limitations. Once you have a solid mix, then take it to the mastering process, which essentially normalizes the format for multiple platforms. Without mastering, your music may sound perfect on Spotify and terrible on Apple. Just keep in mind that mastering isnt designed to fix your mix, it’s designed to enhance it.

[@cottoo1]

that's why I was making better mixes before I learned about LUFS, "set your kick to -6db", "the new best mastering limiter" etc

[@Add1sondeSaulenet]

This

[@DaveChips]

I also got lost in 5-6 LUFS madness... :/

[@JomarkhoMusic]

I love the 7 (well 8) step summary of how production is "taught". When I attempt the "mastering" step I usually make everything sound worse, and fall into the bah give up stage. Great video, as always, and thanks for the demonstration at the end rather than just speaking the ideas.

[@nuke_code]

Thanks, @Bthelick! You’re awesome! Adjusting my master to 0dB resolved nearly 90% of my issues. I had spent almost 4 years focusing solely on mastering because everywhere you look, they teach that you need -12dB for mastering, which I now see was misleading. Your tip has transformed my workflow and approach. Now, my main challenge is improving my sound design from scratch using VST plugins like Serum, Diva, and Vital.

[@gughffhhghgghghgg1690]

@@nuke_code i dont understand whats the difference

[@yarrrno]

I feel like you pulled my pants down and revealed all my mixing secrets 😂

[@PrepJohnson]

This couldn´t have come at a better time, it's just what I needed! Thank you!

[@MORRILL_MUSIC]

The first person ive seen to stop using a limter and have ableton clip it off was that dubstep producer MR Bill. He was ableton certified and had knowledge of the software like no one else. I think he might of been the first person to do this. I did this method on my latest track. Master clipping at about 4-5 db over 0 and the results were amazing. 0 compression or limiting in the track makes everything sound better and more organic to the ears. No more squashing dynamics for loudness. THANK YOU BTHELICK!!! You have transformed my production skills with these vids over the past year and a half.

[@paulc7798]

If you want to be a good dance producer, you should watch this video and then watch it again and again until you can recite every word from memory. You could also print it out and put it somewhere that will be seen by you often. I normally put printed stuff like this on the back of the bathroom door so I have something to read while on the throne. I learnt the circle of fifths this way. See you in the morning sir. Thank you.

[@Bthelick]

Maybe it will make some a better dance engineer, this video doesn't have much to do with production. I think another essential lesson is knowing that difference (if you want to do this for a living that is). Many of the best producers in the world don't touch the mixing or mastering side of things.

[@W4ll_fl0w3r]

@Bthelick with so many artists starting to 'produce' their own work over the last few years, one very common misconception amongst the ones struggling i found is that producers and engineers are one in the same

[@Bthelick]

Absolutely. I made a video rant on that very subject called "you are not a producer" haha. A lot of people don't actually know what a producer does.

[@W4ll_fl0w3r]

@Bthelick lol I've gotten to wear it just tell them produce your work if you want but my goodness let an engineer give it love it deserves lol I will definitely go scope that video tho lol will be nice hear someone else rant about it 🤣🫂

[@andreash3989]

Seriously, kudos to ur honesty and thank you for demystifying making dance music again. The sheer amount of youtubers telling you what one needs to buy to have this and that sound can be really overwhelming sometimes. It's nice to finally see someone with obvious industry experience telling everyone to chill and get the basics right. Real value here, gonna pass that message on, thank you for that ❤

[@RayAddams]

You were pretty clear in your last video. I understood what you meant.

[@thekhamisiproject]

A major part of my ongoing education is UN-learning irrelevant, and many times harmful, information that affects my mixes. I always wondered why everything would sound amazing in my mix, but sound like complete caca when bounced to a stereo file - this clarified why like nothing else EVER has! I have RUINED good mixes by over processing and believing my eyes rather than my ears! Honestly, I mixed better BEFORE I was taught to overthink it. - this (and the previous video) exposed SO many habits that I need to change ASAP. THANK YOU!! 😲

[@Castrouk_]

This process reminds me of a time about 7 years, a friend asked me why I like using LANDR. I told them when I upload a track, and set it to the highest loudness option, the result shows me what needs fixing in my track ie I can hear it distorting. I’ve realised now I could have been doing this in my own DAW all along! Thanks Bthelick as always, your content is incredibly helpful!

[@RutgerSteenbergen]

Just stumbled upon yout channel and it is pure gold. For a long time, I've felt that I am producing way too complicated. This really opens my eyes. Very cool and it gives energy. Let's gooooooooo! 🔥🔥🔥

[@najsmusic7611]

This has also been my method of finishing my music since seeing Mr Bill do this some time ago. I master other peoples music but not my own anymore. Everyone making dance music should learn this trick. Great video as always!

[@jxcn]

I found part 1 perfectly clear and was impressed with the quote you shared "The best mixes don't need mastering" - Bob Katz. That was what really helped me understand the overall message you were educating us on. This was a great follow up video which helped me better understand how the exported audio file does not exceed 0db when the master output fader in the project is redlining. Cheers!

[@YoungZcarFace]

Bless you

[@sketchchomsky]

Another great video my man! Funnily enough just had a conversation about this with Rob over at polarity music, as noticed he always mixes his music to like -0.3 db and mixes as he goes. So now I have two sources saying the same thing. Time to change my workflow I think! Seems a whole lot quicker too. And I had actually been thi king that old school methods had come over unnecessarily into the digital realm from analogue studios. Cheers mate!

[@kubaasm8177]

Thank the lord of youtube algorithm for recommending this. thank you so much. By the way, is there a way to download the free afterlife sample pack? when I go on the website, it says that this store is unable to make orders. Can you help out? Thanks!

[@Bthelick]

I've heard it's broken. I'm not associated with it at all sorry. I couldn't even find any contact info to nudge them guess I'll have to make to my own.

[@producermind9030]

This process is not strange at all. DnB producers have been doing this for ages. Part1 was super clear. Love your videos

[@Anlien1]

Your videos are always so humbling. It's so refreshing to hear someone argue against so many of the "standard" production practices with rational arguments and their own experience working as a professional. Congrats on the 50k and thank you for sharing your talent and experience with people looking to learn. Also , I really, really liked your single Save Me

[@Bthelick]

Thankyou!

[@alexeysmirnovguitar]

Great video and information. I work a lot with live music and share the same approach, except sidechain compression (which hardly ever sound good with live instruments). I avoid any processing on the masterbus until the very end of the mixing process. The limiter I use only in true peak mode to get rid of short spikes and pump up the level a bit. All the loudness and energy in the mix comes from the processing on individual channels and buses. Most of the time live sounds need quite a lot of healthy compression to sound good in a dence mix. This is the only way to make live music sound loud and proud, if needed. I don't believe that heavy compression destroys the modern music, as many people say. The bad and uneducated decisions about sound processing in general do make music sound bad and uninteresting.

[@Bthelick]

Yes it's always an ear training issue. I don't think it sounds 'bad' when done correctly but it's just rarely needed. And as there's so much misinformation out there plus much of my audience doesn't have the ear training I just tend to advise against it in general. "No compression" is just the shocking news some need to wake up and start actively listening for dynamics.

[@bigbangboo]

Love this approach and my father (high class Psy trance producer) told me a Very simmilar approach where you mix your kick (when loudest) and bass into a good clipper and mix everything under that . If you hear distortion - fix it. What he also told me is to clip every not audible transients in every signal to get even louder. What do think about that ? Big thanks for everything you share and much love from Berlin ❤

[@Bthelick]

It sounds similar but pre-clipping doesn't work. People think pre-clipping sounds will save 'work' at the master , but The physics doesn't line up. When you clip a sound at zero, as soon as it gets added to any other sound It goes back over zero. So you end up clipping sounds I already clipped. Creating exponentially more aliasing distortion. I don't like the sound of it, it's far less transparent and it doesn't help with final level that much.

[@dimonwait]

Best short and straight to the point explanation of mastering since its beginning till now, thanks I'm finally having a good time watching an useful and honest youtube explanation

[@Doll_Music]

Starting with the sub and the kick makes so much sense. I gotta give this a go. I dont really make edm, but this still might be applicable for me. Thank you 👊

[@Bthelick]

Yeah give it a go. it's not just EDM. I've done metal / punk mixes and hip hop. (As I said in the last video I started this theory when mixing a hiphop track whilst researching Dre Dre.

[@allysbored]

completely changed how ive been looking at music creation within the past 30 minutes with both videos, thank you! also, just an aside: steve duda and deadmau5 are both producers *and* engineers - they've been working together for decades and share a really similar outlook on engineering and production because of that (though admittedly one's much clearer at explaining their thoughts!)

[@Tzibi88]

Thank you for share with us your secrets!

[@Algo2.0]

I have just tried it..... MY ENTYRE LIFE IS A LIE!!!!! :D Honestly, I am clipping 5 dB into the red on the Masterchannel and the result sounds better than my previous "master" that I did with expensive plugins. Less harsh, more punch, more details. Dafuq...... After adjusting the Kick level a bit I now even have the same perceived loudness as my so called master from before.... unbelievable.

[@maxlittle8003]

Ive been producing for 6 yrs and your tutorials are sigle handedly reaponsible for helping me thru a progression plateau. Ur a legend truly. Would love a breakdown on lobster telephone by peggy gou and how to make more modern interpretations of 90s techno/house/electro

[@GingerDrums]

Yes. Yes. Yes. I mix and master for a living, and this is fantastic information. The limiting factor (pun not intended) audio engineering is ear training and good sounding rooms. And modern budget full range speaker and stock plugins from any DAW are more than sufficient to make chart topping mixes from production to master. Good sound selection, arrangement, simple tools and taste make good mixes, all the hardware and shiny plugins in the world will not make any difference AT ALL!

[@Inzzide-R]

@GingerDrums have you tried using Ollo headphones for mastering? They are game changers. No need for speakers and room treatment that cost a kidney. Changed my life.

[@Bthelick]

Exactly "mixing is a listening skill not an operational skill" - Robert Scovill

[@GingerDrums]

@@Inzzide-R I use Audeze LDC-X headphones and Kii-Three speakers. I dont use any of my hardware since a while :)

[@GingerDrums]

@@Bthelick 25 likes on this comment of mine, but hundreds of millions of dollars a year spent chasing gear that makes no difference XD

[@ImNotQualifiedToSayThisBut]

@@GingerDrums stopped spending on monitoring hardware after I bought my VSX. Never looked back

[@kamalpurewall599]

Hi thanks for the great vid. I think a lot of people when they start use this approach because it aounds good and start to change when they try to get a more polished sound and turn to a million and one youtube videos who post daily to make a profit with the same information that turns out you dont need. This then affects your music and work flow in a bad way then you look for more videos to fix that and the loop goes on. I wasted a good 2 or 3 years doing this and its always best to stay simple with a solid mix. Thanks again for the video upload.

[@tobycoles9737]

Pretty interesting stuff! I imagine the more physical nature of using the interface as the clipping medium is what leads to that slightly more transparent sound (or is it still a completely digital clip? Just in the interface drivers as opposed to software). I was comparing directly with having Voxengo Elephant on the master just set to 0 and there really was quite a big difference. Even while referencing though i still find my self thinking 'damn that sounds bloody great' and struggle a bit to find a path to that sound, but i think mainly it really just is samples.. i need better samples for trancey stuff basically as ive been making jungle for a while! Going to try adopt this workflow a bit more though.. have far too much stuff i havent released or sent out to anyone, for one reason or another. Recently discovered your channel and you're refreshingly to the point!

[@Bthelick]

As I mentioned in the first video, it should be inference's driver clipping , not the hardware. As far as I'm aware anyway. But I do certainly find it ever so slightly better sounding than using a clip plugin, even one that oversamples like free clip. In theory there should be no difference.

[@nannue]

Absolutely top content in both technicality and friendly communication. Subbed !

[@enrico_carli]

Thank you for the video, I've always used a similar approach, but always struggled when claps are being played at the same time with a kick. What's your usual approach on that? I can't see the processing in the video. I usually go with a mix of track delay, eq. Taking out the transient of the clap to leave space the transient of the clap sometimes makes the combination of the 2 sound weaker. What's your usual approach? Thank you!

[@Bthelick]

I don't usually do much processing. Yes track delay can work but it changes the groove so I only use that when it's supposed to be part of the feel. It really depends on where the transient and groove energy is coming from in the kick. Usually just a high pass on the clap is fine but for that problematic ones that mess with the kick punch I have sometimes envelope triggered the high pass, so the kick changes the high pass frequency , letting the kick transient through but returning to where the rest of the clap is audible just after. You can also do a similar approach with Multiband compressor sidechaining.

[@Ravix0fFourHorn]

Amazing, so i followed your advice, compressor only to sidechain elements to the kick, then i isolated kick and bass to tune out any distortion and make it sound groovy for those in the bathroom and now i can turn the limiter to the max without getting any distortion the same way i used to get before. Sounds squashed obviously because im overdoing it but it still sounds ok. Which probably means the limiter isnt working as much as before.

[@Bthelick]

Great to hear , Try without the limiter, see if you prefer it.

[@gonzo7440]

What a tutorial definitely was lost in that YT do this and that world and got super confused i always had a tought something like this. Never felt quite right with that first perspective. Btw bomb track we need that for reference 😲🙏🏽 awesome video!

[@alexsaberi8895]

Thanks so much for all you videos. You have opened many of our eyes. I will be using your techniques from now on. Can I just ask, Did you eq out the sub frequencies on the kick in this example? (time 13:58) cheers

[@Bthelick]

Thanks your welcome. there's no EQ on the kick as a main sound, those 2 are bypassed. They are high pass and low pass filters for turning on in the breaks. The last plugin is to measure the bass sidechain.

[@alexsaberi8895]

@@Bthelick thanks for the quick response and clarification. All the best

[@Bthelick]

No problem, Oh and I just noticed you donated thank you so much 🙏

[@Igor_Shvets77]

This is gold. Any advices on the similar content examples in indie folk/rock? Thanks again 🙏

[@Bthelick]

The 'brighter' the genre, the more 'transparent' this is, as some of the clipping is inevitably masked by high frequencies. So this works mostly as is for the heavier side of rock like metal and punk. But acoustic genres with 'natural' top end probably won't get away with leaving the master channel empty. Clipping sounds extremely obvious on natural sounds as It is a digital artifact. The overall principles are applicable , like working at zero, getting the low end right first, and fixing any causes of distortion you hear as it happens . But getting that right on real instruments is far harder though , certainly don't take my advice on removing all compression haha. Luckily bass guitars aren't that strong in the sub region, The most audible part is usually the first harmonic not the fundamental So there is less fighting in the sub-region against the kick (usually) so there's that at least. I think All genres benefit from sidechaining, especially in the low end, not just dance, so utilize that. That will save any limiter at the end A lot of work.

[@iamserwus]

Great stuff! I think I get moat of this but I have a question. Do you use something as reference from yourbown track eg a kick? You said instead of bringing down levels you can play around the ADSR to solve the distortion/red metering. But where do you put your most important element which usually is the kick in dance? Do you go for 0dB or u just put it somewhere and adjust everything to taste. And if it then goes distorted/red you start adjusting enveloped and so on. Hope this make sense. I really look forward trying out this technique in my next session! All the best, Serwus

[@Bthelick]

I mainly mean using other people's tracks as references, ones that you know work already for their desired audience. Like a club track that you know works well in a club etc. You will find matching their kick will leave it around zero-ish , remember though that's peak so it's a useless number (see first video of that doesn't make sense)

[@iamserwus]

@@Bthelick thanks for the reply!

[@maydaygoingdown5602]

Hi, very interesting video for sure. I just stumbled across it and your channel. When I get chance to spend some quality time in my man cave I'll sit down and give it a go. I'm using Ableton, sometimes Reaper. I've also noticed I need to really down down on the Reverb and learn how to use it correctly and on what. I'm definitely using it too much. Anyways, I enjoyed watching, subscribed to your channel and looking forward to watching. Best wishes.

[@andystylesuk]

Great videos mate. When tracks are in a bus/group and it goes over zero on the channel due to summing, will this be an issue? Should it be turned down?

[@Bthelick]

No it's not a problem, that is explained in the first video if you want to know why

[@Rhekluse]

Great video! It just shows you don't need a massive Master Chain if your sound selection & mix are making all of the moves. I recommend adding a Saturator set to 'Digital Clip' on your Master (with High Quality mode, Color, and Soft Clip turned off). When enabled you can get a real-time idea of how your track will sound clipped at 24-bit or 16-bit before even exporting it. Cheers mate!

[@Bthelick]

You're already hearing your sound clipped though! Those 'overs' you see in the master channel are estimations, they didn't exist in the real world sound output that leaves the DAW. You are hearing the converted audio from your audio interface which by nature can't be a floating point signal, so you're hearing the fixed signal , ergo clipped. I explain the science in the first video. Soft clipping doesn't work for this method as the threshold catches more than transients leading to far more audible distortion l.

[@Rhekluse]

@@Bthelick Fair point. I figured if you are just letting your DAW clip, then what you're actually hearing is your DAC clipping while you work, which seemed dubious. Digital Clip (with everything OFF) on the Saturator is exactly how the DAW would clip to a fixed-point according to Ableton Support. I believe it wouldn't introduce anymore more distortion than simply letting the DAW clip since it would be only clipping peaks in the same way.

[@alecballdwin7926]

Banging track and videos as always! Any tips for those who like using a lot of saturation with all of this in mind?

[@Bthelick]

Ah good question, saturation shaves of transients and peaks so any clipping on the master becomes a lot more obvious and this doesn't really work. It very much depends on why and how you are using saturation. I would advise to be careful what you saturate, maybe leave it off transient drums or run it in parallel. The good news is as with all distortion you are trading low frequencies for high (at equal volume), so at equal volume you should have less sub problems! the bad news is you will have a lot more low mid problems and also that no-one runs saturation at equal volume 🤣. My advice would be run at zero with an empty master still, just so you can hear when saturation is causing you problems and you can make adjustments.

[@alecballdwin7926]

⁠@@Bthelickthanks for the detailed response! As a fan of the more distorted genres this will make my mastering tricky and require more research, I will definitely be referring back to this comment as well as these videos.

[@Bthelick]

@@alecballdwin7926 having said that, brighter sounds in more aggressive genres Will tend to mask some clipping more so you'll have to experiment. All about listening. Just keep an ear out if you are ruining your punch and groove for the sake of loudness that's always the issue. My clipping is not pushing for extreme loudness, it's more about the transparent handling of groove.

[@luisordonez4133]

The Godfather of breaking the rules has spoken. Trusting your ears and the almost perfect sound selection is the key to a great and on your face sound.!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@x2tharay]

Thank you for your very understandable video!!

[@Bbbbbohemia]

He always delivers. Interesting angle, will be giving this a try.

[@cristiaanbroderick8839]

Been really enjoying the videos. I definitely learn best by things being broken down molecularly so I appreciate the clarity on your approach!

[@rikgreen520]

Once again you've proved why your video's are the best on KZbin.......it's always a " I can't click on it fast enough moment " when i see a new video drop from Bthelick, top tutorial as per usual...... 🔥🔥

[@unisonproductions123]

GOAT level advice. Hey, would there be any benefit in clipping the individual tracks (The Baphometrix Clip to zero method) ?

[@Bthelick]

No clip to zero doesn't work. It's simple physics of sound , if you clip individual tracks to zero, then combine just 2 of them you get +6 again. So the clipping doesn't prevent anything , it just causes more distortion, of the worst kind. It's far more transparent sounding to just clip the once at the end and only the drum transients. Clipping before clipping doesn't 'save' any level / headroom, it just creates clipping of the clipping!

[@unisonproductions123]

Thanks, that makes sense! When you say clip once at the end, that's the master channel going into the red right? You dont put a clipper on it or or the drum channel?

[@Bthelick]

Yes I mean the master in red. That is the clipping. 👍

[@hadesofspades]

Im happy to have seen this video, I have been thinking about this concept for a long time. As I've been producing more and more music, the less mastering I've needed... I did wonder if there was a way to do without it while retaining loudness. I'll be trying this out and checking out your other videos too.

[@Reg-Edit]

This principle is so straight forward Trusting your ears with good headphones I have never thought of Ignoring the red in the digital realm Now that you’ve explained it, it seems obvious lol Gonna give this a go 🙏❤️

[@TayWoode]

Can’t remember who it was, but years ago I read about a well known producer who said he didn’t compress or master anything and did everything adjusting volumes and eq by ear

[@jacquessaints]

Hi thanks for the info. One question so if you want to upload your spotify they want peak max at -2db. So Im assuming you would just use a loudness meter and push the faders within that limit?

[@Bthelick]

no I've never done that. When you let transients 'through' at the final stage those could be 10db peaks above zero. So to hit -2 you would have to reduce your master fader to -12 to end up with peaks at -2db. then your tracks would be 12db less than everyone else. It's exactly as I describe in the video, My track is at the same level as my reference, with peaks 'over shooting' and that means the final mixdown at 24bit or less, will have peaks clipped at zero. and that is what I send to stores. They absolutely do not enforce the -2 limit. it seems like more of a suggestion to beginners to help them avoid distortion.

[@jacquessaints]

@@Bthelick many thanks for the info. Interesting lots of these videos on youtube say master to -2db peak max as thats their alleged value, not saying thats true… step 1- pull up your ref track and drop by -12db on the fader. Then put on a spectrum analyser. One question here - why drop by 12 db when your trying to produce your values similar to there mixed and mastered levels? Step 2 - Model your low-end, nice and tight and no distortion, hardest parts over. Saturation, Eq, compression, sidechain, not sure if you agree there? Step 3 - do as you want to achieve your overall sound. If clipping on the master dont worry as you say due to the maths behind the limits as long as no distortion. Look at overall comparison of spectrums. Thanks for your guidance, big fan of your philosophy and want to truely learn how to mix right

[@ZhakhannDJ]

Incredible powerfull vidéo ! Thx for teaching us the right way of doing Electronic music ! Ive noticed myself that the -12db before going to the mastering section was useless and struggling as fuck ! And this thing with the limiter and compresor are tighten the sound more than making the mixe better. I understand why now and will continue using my ears more than follow bad KZbin tutoriels mastering technics ! Thx for making it clear much love

[@jotekdj]

This is brilliant! Love the simplicity of it. Just to make sure I understand - you essentially begin with your kick peaking at 0, and then everything else is balanced to it, right? In the case of EQing a kick of changing the envelope (which might therefore affect the final volume a little) - would you compensate with additional gain to bring it back up to 0? Thanks again!!!

[@Bthelick]

Well you're still working to the reference, that's always your go to. If that means the kick has to be at peaking zero so be it. You'll usually find it's around there. , but remember as I said in the first video the peak of a signal and that number mean nothing so don't go using it as a benchmark. 2 kicks peaking at zero on a digital peak meter means one can still sound double the volume of the other so never use the numbers, use your ears and reference.

[@jotekdj]

@@Bthelick that makes sense! Thanks so much!

[@EdgarBarranco]

Great video. I do have one question, around minute 17 you mentioned a de-binauralizer. Is this for sale anywhere? I was looking for it, but I could not find it. Thanks!

[@Bthelick]

It's only a feed from one ear back to the other with slight delay. I gave away and explain all my racks in this video, check the description there. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4PPg6Cjibibr7Msi=fnQ-YU40XhMrV49f

[@R1PPA-C]

Only being able to use headphones due to my living arrangements a little while back I started producing with a master chain active from early on in a project to get some gain into my cans, I can't get a feel for EDM unless there's some headrattling going on... And since I've adopted this technique it's not only making things fit together much better from the get go but also saving me all the rejigging later on once the format of a track is finished and it's time to finalise.

[@zonalaudio]

Just use a limiter with no more than 3db gain reduction, anything else will potentially alter your mix too much

[@Bthelick]

Depends on the limiter and how it deals with complex signals involving high sub content mixed in with higher stuff. 3db is a lot, that is a 50% reduction in level, but the amount is not the entire issue, it's in how it handles the recovery. The most transparent limiters are intelligently clipping behind the scenes now anyway, but they still struggle sometimes with 'digital spikes'. A 10db transient spike that we can't hear getting clipped is infinitely more transparent than how a limiter would try to deal with that. Limiters are certainly cleaner for sustained overs and I use them on non-groove based genres , but they are always worse for transients in my experience. Just A/B on a good mix you should be able to hear it.

[@soviut303]

This is vindicating in that I've always been pretty light on my mastering chain, maybe a compressor, maybe a limiter and keeping the master at 0. That said, this clarified a major point about the low end frequencies and I'm definitely going to be a bit more surgical with my auto ducking (if I ever decide to change kick drums from my trusty default)

[@belgradeboy1977]

Wonderful background music. May I know the track name please?

[@Bthelick]

Thanks! Great question I haven't named it yet. The vocal version will Probably be named more than friends as that's the final hook. Keep an eye on the Spotify etc there will be a short instrumental released soon

[@OriginallyG]

Man.. there was someone on reddit the other day asking about mastering and i really wanted to say all of these thing particularly that mastering was an important job in the industry and now is just being justified by a bunch of people that have invested money in gear to be a "mastering engineers". Well said and well done

[@dendera1337]

2:30 - 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Great humour, Bthelick!

[@MrBrownAlliance]

been binging your content... Tried this, no compression, volume mixing only with a lot of referencing for levels and stereo position with only the BX Glue Compressor in the Master. Pushed into the Compressor and got 6.8 Lufs! Mix sounds great... I went to the next level today!

[@Bthelick]

Nice! My only question is why the glue? That will make the clipping more obvious, and rob the groove away, (pay attention especially to the kick punch) .

[@MrBrownAlliance]

@@Bthelick my 'educated' guess was... very low ratio, slow attack to let all the transients thru, quickish release, use a 'colour/saturation' mode in the BX. My anchor Kick was 10db, I had to turn up the BX output to push into the channel master. I could have turned off the compression completely and just used the 'colour' of the BX.

[@Bthelick]

@@MrBrownAlliance yeah try without. Including without the colour. Even good analog saturation can unnecessarily lengthen kicks & shave transients, both the Nemesis of dance music and worse for this method. Brainworks however have proven to me product after product they cannot do 'good' analog modeling I personally don't like their products. The Neve and the shadowhills was a bloody disaster! As for compression , Even low ration compression without saturation colour is still just lowering the crest factor (dynamic range) leaving less transients to pass through and transparently clip. It directly works against what I'm promoting this method.

[@MrBrownAlliance]

@@Bthelick this thread perfectly illustrates the minefield of different opinions etc. I am going to try without the BX Glue...

[@Bthelick]

@@MrBrownAlliance indeed yes. Well I don't really work like anyone else like I say this was just where I ended up after years of work. As I said in the first video I'm not saying it's the 'best way' and I it still requires good ear training to pull off but my advice in this thread purely pertains to if you want to try what I explain in the video then I think a no compression approach yields better results.

[@fruitsbat]

yessss i was thinking about how to do something like this, thank you :)

[@Hypo11111]

YEEESSS I’ve been looking forward to this. Thank you!!! Great video. Tips I’ll surely try!! 🎧🤯 Love the summary at the end about compression. 🔥

[@paulroberts8695]

Having mixed and mastered my own tracks and released on some.of house musics biggest labels, this really interests me. Couple of quick questions for clarification if I may ? - what starting point volume wise do you use for kick and bass? Do you pull fader of kick track down to say -10 or anything as a start point? - if using saturators for example or tape emulation to add weight and warmth to a track, this is usually placed on the master bus, how would you accommodate this if master is to have no processing on? Thanks 👍🏼

[@Bthelick]

Name a label I've released on it too. (Not under this name, in my ghost work) This method has never had me rejected, in fact quite the opposite as some labels have previously insisted their own contractors mastered the track, but none of their masters were preferred over my mix. No I don't reduce any faders or certainly not by that amount. again it's all about the reference. most kick samples that get close to the references are around the zero mark already, there may need a db here or there. (Remember if triggering via midi to turn off or compensate for velocity sensitivity so the sample plays back at its original volume) the point is for you to match the reference as the reference already is, at it's released level. Obviously it initially seems like it would be impossible to match a 'mastered' reference without mastering, but it turns out it's actually easier this way (imo). Saturation can be dangerous, it entirely depends on the source it's applied to. For example I hate tape saturation on drums because the head bump and hysteresis tends to lengthen kick drums beyond what I initially intended , Even though psychoacoustically it appears to give you more fatness, when working at zero, you realize what this costs you at the master stage. Again, another great benefit of this method. No enhancement is free, thus why It's just easier to get the sounds right in the first place. Saturation also deletes transients, So anything passed to the master bus makes any clipping is far more obvious. I tend to only use saturation on non-transient material like certain basses. when working at this 'already mastered' kind of level there can be gain staging concerns with some non-linear processors like saturators, especially ones with no internal calibration, as some consider -12dbfs etc to be 'normal' input. something to keep an ear out for.

[@paulroberts8695]

​@Bthelick appreciate the reply mate, and the detailed analysis. Have a project on the go. Ow that I'm going to apply this method too. I feel people get bogged down with mastering thinking they need all sorts on it, when more often than not it just takes away the clarity.

[@stuart.s.]

This is fascinating. 👍Having just about finished my first track in 20 years in FL which has taken far too long, I can see where I have gone wrong along the way and made my life somewhat more difficult. I will certainly try this in Ableton for my 2nd attempt.

[@Bthelick]

It's not DAW specific just in case that wasn't clear.

[@rowanferguson]

Brilliant video, useful, practical and easy to understand. Subscribed.

[@RhythmReconstructed]

Great video! But, what about a situation where, let's say, the kick pattern changes. Like at the end of a loop there are multiple kicks, like a kick fill/roll. Then that will create a huge spike in loudness and introduce distortion. Now wouldn't this be a great place to group the bass and the kick tracks and put a limiter on that group instead of volume automation or something else. Idea would be that the limiter's treshold only picks up the busy kick part. Or what is your approach? Even with a reference track this problem would still occur I think.

[@Bthelick]

Yes of course it will cause it will cause problems , but it's a problem regardless, for a limiter too, or any other process. The laws of physics dictates you can't have that many long waveforms overlapping. So you still have to make steps to arrange that section. Be it removing the sub at that point or automating levels. I certainly have reached for a limiter in occasional circumstances where the groove damage doesn't matter, and I just automate them on for that section.

[@benjamineisenhofer8174]

Thank you very much for this piece of education. =)

[@darbomusic]

Brilliant mate ❤

[@TRVladdy]

So, I made a comment before, which I have now deleted due to me doing some testing in the studio. I said that I thought daws use 32bit float internally, which would mean that you couldn't hear any clipping before exporting. I tested it out, and holy crap, it was audibly clipping. Since I always got my monitors cranked up all the way while mixing, I never noticed because I had way to much headroom, but yea... you are right in every aspect here. I will still mix and master the way I'm used to thought. meaning, I mix with a ton of headroom and just increase the volume at the very end using a limiter till I am just barely hitting the threshold. On that note, I actually stopped using any processing (except limiting) on my master a while ago and focused on getting the mix exactly the way I want it instead, leading to way better results. Why I still prefer limiting: About 5 years ago, I uploaded a song for a client and failed to set a proper ceiling. It sounded fine, even after exporting, but once uploaded, the entire song had nasty clipping artefacts. I looked into it and found out that certain streaming services de/encode your wav file into all sorts of files. Some of them lack the bit depth to go above even -1. Instead of "mastering" for each scenario individually, I now make one universal master that peaks at -1 with a loudness that feels right but usually lands at around -13lufs since I like my stuff dynamic

[@Bthelick]

Did you watch the first video? I explain all this in that one. The artifacts you're hearing post mixdown are interpolation distortion. After conversion into a continuous voltage for analog playback new peaks may be created. This also happens after lossy conversion like streaming / mp3. But monitoring at zero I find gives you plenty of warning as you are already listening to the analog conversion via fixed bit output 'on the edge' The only way to truly predict this ahead is to use a true peak limiter. But those also catch far too much that affects groove for my tastes. You're hearing problems post master because you didn't prepare for those problems early enough as you left the level raising until the last minute. Even mastering at that stage doesn't guarantee any protection because the mix itself is not prepared as well as it could be. That's why your having to limit to such conservative levels, not the other way around. I've not had any problem with streaming services or conversion doing it this way for many many years, but then again I am actually very sensitive to clipping so I don't push things. Dropbox playback once did weird things on a very hot drum n bass track but that's literally the only problem I've encountered in a long time

[@antonnitsche1877]

as always very insightful ! I will have to mix my kick and bass right to where the distortion would start in order for this technique to work ? Thanks for your help :)

[@Bthelick]

Basically yeah. It's more that you need to find your sounds and set their levels to the reference. Which you'll find is usually on the edge of distortion. The subs use up the most energy so they will be right at the top.

[@revlow]

The more you learn the more you learn you nearly need it absolutely correct at source! Once you add processing, EQ etc it’s always possible to make it worse. Especially in the production phase. Really insightful video tbh as I’ve always noticed behind the scenes projects end up being super simple

[@revlow]

For example, instead of saturating your subs single bands, if you’ve synthesised one you can add harmonics or adapt the waveform in the synth. Cleaner without unnecessary artefacts. then instead of compressing you change the ADSR

[@Bthelick]

Yes, people believe digital is perfect, but every single process causes mathematical rounding errors forever changing the sound. So the less processing we need the better!

[@seancollins5998]

For personal reasons I need not delve into. This video was incredibly helpful to me. This was the first video of yours I have seen. ~ The humility at the beginning piqued my interest (that's commendable). ~ Your capacity to share your process in an easy-to-follow manner, piqued my interest further. ~ Having an relatable online personality resulted in my subscribing I appreciate you. Although this has been the most important video, for where I'm at on my unique music production journey, if you added caption overlays on the video, along with your video... That'd be nutty. Regardless... Thank you, Namaste my boy With utmost respect to the other KZbinrs whose educational videos have been so influential upon my path, at this moment... You're my current hero. Haha 🥹🤣🤣🕉️

[@Bthelick]

Aw thanks Sean you're very welcome. . Unfortunately i don't have the time to manually edit captions, instead I try my best to annunciate clearly so the auto captions are accurate. Have you tried those yet?

[@End_V]

Hey Ben👋, I've got another short question. Why is your fader for the bass set at +2.1 and for the subbass set at -3.2? I thought the idea was to start with the sub, bass and kick with the fader set at 0 for each and afterwards for the rest of the sounds we adjust accordingly.

[@Bthelick]

It's Simply because that was what sounded closest to the references. I'm sorry there's no rules, as simple as this process is , it still lives or dies on the ear training of the engineer

[@End_V]

​@@Bthelick Got it!

[@xidiandj]

This is real info! I came to this through self-taught knowledge, and it's amazing! Great channel!

[@ItsWesSmithYo]

Love it, good times start to finish. Afterlife pack promo coming in hot 🥵 😂 thanks B

[@Algo2.0]

Best music mate ever.

[@blueeyedcat3443]

Hi Trance Master, I love this song, can`t wait until it finished...

[@underknown8689]

Great tutorial! I reviewed the 3R video as well and am still not understand how to properly reference. Is it as simple as putting the reference tracks and the your track at the exact same level?

[@Bthelick]

Yes that's all. So everything is on 'even terms' as it were. Obviously it requires ear training over time to get good at it like anything else but that's part of the practice

[@KevinArdala01]

Brilliant, this is precisely what I've been wanting to know. 😃👍

[@eyourich]

What do U think bout Gainstaging and need feed up analog modeled plugins with 0VU?

[@Bthelick]

Yes it's a concern with any non linear plugin. Most seem to expect anywhere from -18 to -6. Although It's not VU in the digital domain it's dbfs. I have a simple 'headroom' rack that has a level reduction followed by the same addition mapped to a single control so I can put the plugin in the middle and dial in headroom.. Be very careful with saturation on groups or the master though, they usually delete transients and reduce dynamic range so makes any clipping far far worse and more audible.

[@stuartjones8695]

I really enjoyed this video and approach. It forces you to focus on the mix down which is way more important than the master and not having a master chain means you don’t try and polish a turd. I’ve seen in the comments this works best without clipping anywhere else in the chain which makes sense. What about using something like Decapitator on individual tracks - is that best avoided aside from sound design? Also are you doing no compression anyway (not even parallel)? Just wondering how you create body to the sound - is that purely sound design? And if you’ve got conflicting frequencies (other than sub/kick) - how do you layer together without clipping or find out where the frequencies sum up too much together?

[@Bthelick]

I advise to avoid clipping / decap aside from sound design yes. Clipping before the master doesn't really 'save ' any headroom the way people think it does. Because even 2 sounds clipped at 0 added back together are back to +6, and whatever was 'saved' just becomes even more obvious distortion downstream. I compress what needs compressing, which in these genres is usually nothing or maybe the vocal. If you have conflicting frequencies layering then it sounds like a problem with the arrangement., or you can just make simple EQ moves. Knowing why to layer is key. In fact knowing the destination in general is what makes it easy. If I am aware the lead sound is only missing transients (assuming of course I have already identified that it needs them), then I may only layer in an extremely short click from a drum samples, or white noise, or short pluck. Not scroll through 200 presets hoping to find what will jump out at me, and risk doubling up on frequencies with all the associated phase cancellation dangers. If I am layering for flavour (like a piano with a string) then there is usually a lot of filtering things out of the way, either in the frequency domain or time domain. 90% of the sounds naturally have a pitch range that will overlap in the low mids so I take care but to let that build up with the way I voice chords, arrange parts , and design sounds first. Then in theory there are very very little mix 'moves' to make. Giving body to a sound is something I've never had a problem with, only usually the bass needs 'body' (the way I would define that term anyway) you are referring to body as a dynamic trait, insulating some sounds need compression to have body, which would indicate the sound decays over time, either in just volume, frequency content or both. Sometimes it's hard to hear ahead of time that a sound will be masked when used in its final context, shrinking into the sound bed as it loses its content. This is something you should train your ears for, it also comes from experience arranging and earning the knowledge of what sounds are useful where. If I hear a sound that loses 'body' quickly I will choose for a percussive role, in the same way that if I am designing a synth sound that has body , it will use no decay or very long delay on its envelopes. Sometimes I will use a process for 'flavour' like tape warmth, or compression, but those are usually for the aesthetics not mix function.

[@stuartjones8695]

@@Bthelickthanks, really helpful. I’ve released one track I mixed with this technique already and was much happier with the result. Big dynamics, less compressed. Do you ever do “glue compression” on the drums still? Or keep as their individual sounds? Most courses I’ve done seem to advocate some sort of SSL compression or similar

[@Bthelick]

@@stuartjones8695 nope. Why would you want your drums to sound like glue??? I'm joking of course I know that's not what it means. Your talking to a guy who grew up on rock and metal. Glue compression is a staple in the world of real drum recordings. Go see my first video on the description, I explain where glue compression comes from. We don't have real drums from 14 different microphones with 60db of dynamic range to contend with. if we need more punch we don't have to swap out the physical kick or share drum out, the skin , the beater , the positioning, and then have the drummer do the whole take again. We can just swap a sample! We have largely abstract , synthesized sounds with at best 1/10th of the dynamics of were lucky! How does it benefit us to smush all that together so it sounds like it 'belongs'? Or If I need more 'punch' then a) I swap the samples or B) if I'm in an extreme rush I will use a transient designer which does a faaaaaar better job of what people use compressors to do. This genre is busy enough, especially in the low end, I don't want my percussion parts to hang around like notes, having their tails squashed by compression, I want them poking and punching, and then letting the music through. That is their job. And I have all the control to get them to do that without a compressor, unlike what a band and real drummer have to deal with. We have a thousand samples to choose from, sampler envelopes, layering, easy context auditioning. I don't see where the compression helps. And even if I do use one on a blue moon I would never recommend it as a rule of thumb in a tutorial, because those without the ear training will 99% do far more damage than good.

[@stuartjones8695]

@@Bthelickthanks - really helpful. I’ve just rewatched the first video (I saw it first time around but it makes more sense after this one) I’ve one more question and I probably know your answer which is use your ears. But you mention redlining occurs after three subsequent 0 peaks in a row - unless you’ve got great audio equipment and ear training, are there any reliable tools to help identifying potentially problematic clipping? My tracks sound fine to me on my monitors and headphones but I’m 47 and I know my hearing isn’t as good as a teenager. Anything which can help compensate for old age? Or is it just ask my kids? 😂

[@Bthelick]

It's a great question and sorry yes I'm not aware of any reliable way to measure audible clipping Vs 'invisible'. My span clip count reads like a pinball high score! I'm a very similar age don't worry about that. First train by listening to mostly 'dull' sounds like you're kick and bass combo (not those bright bass house / dubstep basses I mean duller house kinda things) , with mostly long notes and without side chains at zero you should hear 'farting'. Adjust your side chains until it goes away. Next try adding a loud vocal you should hear a gravely sound when it's clashing with the kick. again try a side chain on the vocal see if you can get it invisible enough that the distortion goes away but the vocal still sounds clear. Or listen to what a minister on the master sounds like. Then in a full mix context just try adding a limiter and see it sounds better or worse. Try to judge the loss of level separately Vs the kick drum 'punch' in a full mix context. It should be more obvious on headphones than monitors.

[@leon3589]

Excellent as always, brother

[@sac5608]

dan can i ask a question, this is brilliant but... lets say i want to put a track on soundcloud do i have to use limiter then to adhere to the -1/2 true peak malarkey

[@Bthelick]

No it's not a problem.

[@sac5608]

@@Bthelick yeah just tried it best upload in terms of quality i ever done thanks so much when payday comes ill buy you a coffee

[@Bthelick]

No problem. The only time it matters is within broadcast. They have audio standards (that's where the LUFS measurement standard came from) for everything else it's as you wish. It's art after all. Anyone who tells you that you MUST limit is regurgitating school audio engineering class haha

[@sac5608]

@@Bthelick thank you very much, you are my go to guy for the truth!

[@domasj2470]

21:03 Wouldn't compressors be adding dynamic range if and when used correctly? Or is that a misconception?

[@Bthelick]

Not usually. Their job is to reduce it after all. I know you're referring to slow attack applications trying to add transients but that still reduces overall dynamic range. And the effect can be done far better with transient modulators or even just EQ. The only type of compressors that can add dynamic range are the ones with negative ratio ability (also known as an expander)

[@domasj2470]

@@Bthelick got it thanks for the reply and thanks for the great content

[@LukePetruzzi]

So excited to try this out!!!

[@HamiltonFishes]

Hi Ben! Another essential video. Question for you - I get what you're saying about unnecessary compression on electronic sources, but what about stuff that comes out the box at a relatively low level? LABS instruments often do that I find, and obviously many of those are sampled from real instruments, so I do tend to compress lots of those just to get some level out of them. Or should I just be pulling the channel fader up above 0? I've always thought that was a no no but it's probably just some anachronistic analogue nonsense I've picked up from somewhere...

[@Bthelick]

Yes, I often have Labs at 400% output that is low be default I understand, but low level and high dynamic range are two completely different things. If the source is quiet just turn it up!!!! If the fader itself has no room, just Put a volume plugin on it (Ableton utility or DAW equivalent) you don't need compression to add level. A compressors job is to REDUCE the *_range_* of level. Compressors can bring up "lower level detail" from a sound that are too dynamic in that , meaning too loud AND too soft. In those cases we use a compressor to bring the average difference down by crushing the loudest bit, and then by compensating with the make-up gain we can raise level back up to the level we lost, which will in turn now leave the quieter sections louder. That might be where the idea of "bring up low level sounds" comes from. But raising the level of a sound is independent of compression , the only parameter that does that on a compressor is the make-up gain , which is just a volume dial, you don't need the compressor bit. So Just turn it up. No processing needed. Unless of course the sound is both quiet AND very dynamic. (Fyi I'm not aware of any sounds in labs that are too dynamic) This is why equal loudness comparisons are crucial. If a processor changes the overall level of a sound. It should have a way of compensating that. A compressor should never make something louder, only roughly the same with less Dynamics. If the compressor is making something louder, you have done something very wrong. Loudness is seductive to the ear, even tiny amounts, like sugar is to the palate. Judge the compression for its compression not its volume compensation. We match level of any processor so we can AB the processor on / off and only judge the process whilst not be fooled by the loudness. because any process that results in a louder sound will automatically sound better. Even when it is really being made worse we won't notice in that case. Always adjust level independently of process.

[@HamiltonFishes]

​@@Bthelick Thanks Ben, I get it now! I think I've probably picked these bad habits up from using compressor presets and specifically over simplified plugins like Waves MV2 where the makeup gain is adjusted automatically. It literally has a slider to bring up low level.

[@Bthelick]

@HamiltonFishes ah right yes definitely. Compressor presets are definitely a problem. nonsense in fact, and dangerous for that very reason! Because until we got AI plugins The compressor would never know where to set the threshold and therefore the makeup gain! Even if you do understand that you need to set your own thresholds and makeup gains for every preset, your 70% done with settings anyway!, only ratio ,attack and release to dial in to taste, meaning compressor presets are useless. Auto makeup gains on compressors are 'dumb' in the sense that they are not responding to the signal, but it's just a fixed amount guess based on the threshold and ratio.

[@jellycoding]

You just made everything so much easier. Thanks!

[@peppepop]

Great line of thought there. What's that visual sample browser called?

[@Bthelick]

That's XO by XLN

[@Add1sondeSaulenet]

Hey ! Awesome video, You explained it really really well, I think your the Hero of the year for many people here. Ive been producing in the same way since 2 years now, with just a little twist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you export, ableton clip the audio. So instead of relying on a clipper that I cant really control, I've build my own based on Intermodulation distortion. So I clip the lows and I clip the highs separatly to avoid distortion to happen too early, so I can "redline" a bit further (And I produce in it) I found that I can push the master transparently(to my ears) a bit more that way. (sometimes even to -3db lufs lol) Does that make sense to you as a pro? What do you think about it? Am I missing something and ruining my tracks without knowing it or is it okay to do? And, if its good, should I oversample the clippers?

[@Bthelick]

I would have to hear that. I think Low "clipping" via imd would sound way more obvious. Remember those clipped signals still have to be recombined! Separate Multiband processing of lows and highs usually adds results in phase rotation at the cutoffs, losing you 3db before you even gain anything from processing. we are aiming to clip only the fastest already invisible transients. As far as the science (and my experiments) show, any pre-clipping/ conditioning/ or saturation will only remove some transients that would other wise pass invisibly, yet also create longer waveforms that will themselves clip a lot more obviously spending longer in the audible window. Same problem with soft clipping algorithms. The concept of 'stopping damage early' doesn't really work, because you always create more damage later. We want a lot of damage very very fast so it goes unnoticed. It's not about "not having control" because you're already hearing the converted output, to fixed point and to analog. You have all the control right there in the mix. If it's working for you then great! The science doesn't make much sense to me (and frankly if you're claiming -3 LUFS and clean I can't trust your ears or setup I'm afraid haha) but there's no reason for me to spend the time setting it up I'm afraid , I don't struggle for level and the releases are paying the bills! It's not a battle of who's got the best methods on paper is it. I'm only recommending this as it's got me to a few hundred million streams across my various accounts, and also there was a ton of misinformation out there that I thought needed tidying up.

[@Add1sondeSaulenet]

@@Bthelick Thanks for your detailed answer ! I had some confusions, now its more clear. Ive learned this trick from big artists in the loudest genre scene (Tear Out/hardcore/brostep) not on KZbin. The guy who taught me this even touched -2,5db lufs in front of me in the studio. (I was shocked) To say its "clean" is a broad statement because for sure to get to that level he pushed it in this hard clipper so it IS a bit dirty. But he said to me that in hard genre its okay because sounds are insanely distorted in timbre so you can get away with it kinda "transparently". Your response makes sense, and I trust you 100%. Especially the "lot of damage very fast" Thats really eye opening. Thanks for that I still use this ""special clipper""only to use Sound Id reference because I dont know where to put it with a signal that hot running on my master :/ If you want to try it fast for science, my setup is really simple : Ozone imager in hybrid mode only to split frequency (for some reason this hybrid mode is Linear Phase lol) I split at 150hz Then I put a hard clip on the lows And a Hard clip after the chains to clip both (clipping the high individually is not needed because lows are not a problem anymore) I oversample x8 only the lows and I dont oversample the "global" clipper Then to push "into" it I put a utility before and raise gain (Only in cases I did not produce in it, and say I master a track for someone, I always get like -1/-2 db louder completety clean, sometimes -4) I still think you should give a try, it's at least interesting. But I think you're right (And if I trust someone on KZbin Its only you ahaha) I'm gonna get rid of it if I find a way to use SOund Id and Slate Vsx with the same method as you Thanks again for your content ! You rock!

[@Bthelick]

@Add1sondeSaulenet I was about to say "unless your in a genre like tear-out" haha it has so many harsh highs you will be masking a lot of clipping then so that explains a lot. It's not a sound you can sustain in Groove based genres. Even in bass house , That level of sustained harshness just empties the floor! So i focus on keeping punch and groove to keep them moving. As I said in the video I don't make music looking at numbers or having a goal of numbers. That whole genre you're in there just seems to be a race to the smallest number (and therefore dynamics) which imo can't last so I ain't going there haha

[@Add1sondeSaulenet]

@@Bthelick Yeah ! I produce Future Garage so like you I just cant push it that loud it makes no sense ! (and it doesnt sound good at all AND its quite stupid) But I study everyone in every genre, even genre that I dislike (like Tear out tbh) And yeah I can confirm they are having a lot of fun trying to go to 0 lufs ahaha If you have like 10 seconds more for me, How do you deal with acoustic or headphone correction plugin? That you are supposed to put on your master. It seems to mess with the perception of the digital distortion :/

[@Bthelick]

@@Add1sondeSaulenet yeah for the headphone plug-in I just made a simple rack that feeds one ear into the other on a small delay with some filtering and a lil room verb. Any proces like that will interfere with a loudness judgement. I only use it when I'm judging width on headphones that's it. If you are only on headphones then best to keep checking on and off. As I say in the 3 simple steps video about referencing though it's good to change up your listening source often so your ears don't settle, so checking with and without should be good for you. Obviously any distortion calls you make going to have to be done with it off.

[@jakayboy]

if i put a clipper on the master at 0% is that better or worse than leaving the master level red?

[@Bthelick]

Technically it should be no different. I've tried many clippers, oversampled , hard, soft, etc. Either sounds the same or worse , so I just leave the DAW/driver to do it.

[@jakayboy]

@@Bthelick i guess it's just choosing what kind of clipping you want on the master whether its ableton or a plugin. so what i can take from this, is you should always clip the master. i also clip the kick and snares and hats sometimes up to 100% sometimes soft or hard depending on taste

[@Bthelick]

@@jakayboy noooooooo that's not the take away at all. I don't ALWAYS do anything and neither should you! sound is waaaaay to complex for any one thing to ever work all the time. the take away is train your ears to know good sound then use those ears to judge where your sound is at compared to that. also pre clipping parts before the master completely destroys the reason clipping the master works. clipping sounds pre master doesn't 'save' any level or save your master from doing any work all those sounds must still be combined anyway (which sends them back above zero because 0 x2 = +6 in sound physics) which will just create more clipping, clipping the clipping is much much worse for obvious distortion artifacts.

[@Desert-Strike]

This was amazing man! Good work! 🎉

[@jonathanoates1972]

Very good! Have you seen the Baphometrix clip to zero method? Very similar to this but goes a little futher. I use this all the time and it's second nature now. Loud clear dynamic mixes, that always hit - 6lufs. But you know what, even after al that i still send for mastering. I'll tell you why. Because a good mastering engineer can most deffinately add a little polish. When i check between my master rendered file and the one back from mastering there's always a little more weight, a little more umph in the bass. Also after working on a track for so long a fresh set of ears can pick out things that sometimes i don't hear and so the feedback is very helpful. All the methods you show are used in the clip to zero method but it goes deeper and takes about 50 hours to go through the whole thing, which i did, and i'm glad because now it's burnt into my frontal cortex! Thanks for the video :-)

[@Bthelick]

Yup there's always room for improvement. I still send to mastering engineers when the client requests. Usually because we've never had more than 1 day on it. Baphomatrix's clip to zero involves pre clipping at channel and bus levels which only makes things worse imo (also in terms of digital sound science doesn't actually work as adding 2 clipped signals together = +6 which just creates more clipping)

[@jonathanoates1972]

@@Bthelick interesting, i shall, have to look into what you say, as i'm not so knowledgeable in the science dept. I'll do some research on this. Thanks for the reply.

[@jonathanoates1972]

ok so i'm trying to grasp a hold of what you say about that you think it's worse. Yes the process does take place at each channel and indeed group busses too, but only as passives, same with the master bus, not doing anything but just sitting there. I also use psyscope pro, amazing tool, for visual rep to see whats clashing and to make sure side chains are doing their correct job. So when i'm looking at my wave form on the master, there's plenty of dynamics, loud, very loud, and crystal clear. Like you said, listen. And when i listen i hear no problems. Then once rendered out i have great looking wave form that sounds great. Before it goes to mastering, i use a master vcr to bring the level down by about 2-3 db for the mastering, as was shown in the clip to zero method. The mastering house hear no problems in th audio, and beleive me they tell when there's a problem. So could you tell me how you think this is not a great method to loud clear dynamic mixes. I'm genuine by the way. If your method does what it says on the tin then i ought to try it our and see. IN fact i have a new loop going that i have just used the CTZ method on. I culd disable all that and try yours. Then compare. I could even send to you, with out letting you know which is which and see you can spot any differences? Thanks

[@Bthelick]

It's simply the fact that he uses clipping on the channels and buses before reaching master. That's not how digital audio works, it doesn't 'save' any headroom in the long run and only creates more problems at the master buss stage and more aliased clipping down stream. If it's working for you then great don't worry, I'm only saying the science doesn't add up because his fundamental theory is flawed. But if you're confident in your ear training and you like the sound then go for it. I'm not about to enter a me vs x technical method battle with people sending me tracks haha. I've been releasing music for 10 years like this professionally to hundreds of millions of streams across accounts and it's literally paying the bills , I'm not seeking change because there's no problem right now. This video is not for comparing methods, it's to help those that are struggling . (And to clear up some misinformation) If you still have problems , i.e you don't trust your ear training yet and your releases aren't getting any plays then obviously start seeking changes sure you can definitely try my method it's a LOT less steps but only if there's a problem. Be careful off this academic back and forth of technical matters 'on paper', I see it everyday on gear space / Reddit and it's 99% hobbyists that have got obsessed with numbers instead of music , and usually don't actually release any music for a living.

[@jonathanoates1972]

@@Bthelick Hey thanks for the reply. NO i don't get caught up back and forth stuff, never have. My music has had over 50 mil streams, bbc music introduing plays and signed to labels. Still not making bugger all from it though lol. So something is working. Wow im very suprised you say this is a flawed method. Until i got this ctz method under my belt i just couldn't get my mixes loud or dynamic enough at the same time. I do enjoy the technical side of things a lot, but my knowledge in the actual science is something i'm still learning. Well i am going to try your way and see how it goes. As far as the CTZ setting up, i have a template so all plugins clippers are all loaded from the offset from a blank project, so it's easy to get going and because i use it all thie time, i can do it at speed. So it's not slow to get going. Right well i'm going to go over your video again, learn your way and give it a go and see how i get on. :-)

[@csvines21]

Thank you for always securing the foundation in your videos first and foremost, your approach is always the best lesson of the video. With that being said could you do a video on how you approach sampling? Perhaps something that samples drums and leads/vocals from the same track, would just love to know your process thanks!

[@Bthelick]

I do talk about samples in my garage advanced sampling video. Did you see that one?

[@csvines21]

@@Bthelick I have not, but will check that out thank you!

[@FutureTherapy]

Hi mate, I’m new to your channel, so much great stuff thanks. I had a wee experiment with this earlier and wound up with a question . I mixed in the red , exported and re-imported, the imported audio just as we noticed in your vid showed no overs on the ableton master channel, also looked great with no overs on ADPRT METRIC, but when I checked using Pro L 2, Pro L was showing a bit over and was doing a little limiting. I’m scratching my head over that. Is Pro L more sensitive because of the true peak limiting, and does it matter?

[@Bthelick]

Is your pro L2 set to "true peak" it's probably that.

[@FutureTherapy]

Yup, with true peak on it’s limiting by 1.8db, if I turn off true peak , it’s only limiting 0.1 db. So I guess that explains it. I need to run some reference tracks through and get a feel for what other tracks look like. I only half understand what the true peak is, I think it’s a bit like when you mentioned the 3 samples at zero in ableton, it assumes one went over. The help dialogue says pro l is “predicting the analogue signal as much as possible so the meter can show peaks ‘between the samples’ . Thanks for the great vids, so much more learning I’m doing 😊

[@Bthelick]

@@FutureTherapy yes True peak uses upsampling to estimate the real waveform after analog interpolation. Basically the waveforms and levels we see in the DAW are not real, they are " discreet " digital samples , but at some point all those samples have to be joined up back into a continuous waveform so they can be streamed as voltage in an analog system i.e real sound. Sometimes after that process new peaks may be created, so true peak is an estimate of what the peak numbers will be after conversion. In other words limiting a signal to any given amount will not guarantee that amount will be the same after conversion. True peak limiters use this estimation process so that even after analog conversion the peak will be the same as what it was in the DAW. But we are already hearing sound after analog conversion anyway, this is what your DA converter is doing in your audio interface. So if there were any audible downstream problems we would hear them regardless. Hope that makes some sense.

[@FutureTherapy]

Crystal clear, and really appreciate the explanation. Thanks a million for that.

[@ahreuwu]

you mentioned at the end "turn off compressors/limiters, don't squish your non transient sounds". what about sends? mainly the drum bus and main synths bus ? I've been using mild compressors and soft clipping on drums to glue the sounds together, and I like how it sounds? what do you use on your buses? do you really not use any volume attenuation there and just fix everything with proper mixdown?

[@KimStennabbCaesar]

I'd turn the volume of the element down and work on the actual sound and how the transients work in relation to the rest of the elements, rather than adding compression. Compression lowers the volume of the peaks, but it also raises the volume of the rest of the sound (depending on your settings, of course). You can see in the video that there's a whole lot of volume automation used throughout the track too. Set your levels before adding any dynamic effects, and if the sounds won't work, replace them with something that does. With this said, you're of course free to do whatever you want, if you think it sounds good.

[@Bthelick]

Why do you want your drums to sound like glue???! Haha. I know that's the not the aim and it's just a name but Glue compression comes from when we needed to record a real drum kit with 16 different microphones, and somehow make all those EXTREMELY dynamic signals fit together. (Did you know a real share drum can reach 140db spl???) I do it on real drum kits all the time, and it's basically essential in that area. But I really don't think the concept translates or belongs to electronic music at all. 99% of electronic drum samples are abstract , unless you're going for realistic drum sounds (not this genre) there's no making abstract sounds 'belong'. They just fit already. I don't use sends. (See my Ableton racks video for the full explanation kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4PPg6Cjibibr7Msi=-pW-80CCXdEbtidpT) I don't use any bus processing usually. Either. Maybe sometimes it's appropriate that an instrument group shares a side chain bounce, or sometimes I will do a little EQ (in this track, I noticed my drum tops weren't as bright as the references, so the whole drum percussion group got a little high shelf boost. But in general nothing major. As I said at the beginning, the sound should be good already. I pick my drum samples to be as punchy as possible, but I winch at the thought of reducing their already small dynamic range with compression or bus compression.

[@juni_music]

thx for the video! really nice work. Is this method similar to using a hard clipper on the master chain like kclip zero? Or is Ableton algorithm doing something else?

[@Bthelick]

Yeah kinda. It's clipping your audio interface's sound driver vs a plug-in. Same in theory but they do sound different to me. It's all Explained in the first video

[@juni_music]

@@Bthelick ah okay, i see. thanks for your reply. will check it out 👍

[@kerimallami]

How do you know you sidechained your kick correctly and it's not too much or too litle? Amazing video btw bro!

[@Bthelick]

You listen! Is it 'farting' when the sub, bass, and kick play at the same times? If not you've done it right 👍

[@FunkinMatt]

Good video, with lots of good tips! For this track you're working on here, I think a bit less energy around 200hz in the kick would make sense, shifting the weight of the track a bit further down, increasing the energy below 100hz. I get what you say about headroom, but since there's not a set LUFS you have to reach, just lower the LUFS appropriately, or counter act it with adding more energy to the midrange of the mix. (Observations done subjectively in a fully treated studio on PSI A23/RME ADI 2 Pro-FS, before I get flamed)

[@HamiltonFishes]

This man knows his onions...I love your Memento Mori track mate

[@Bthelick]

Thanks. This is why a 2nd pair of ears is useful 🙏 Having said that I made this at home for the video in about an hour haha. I didn't plan on spending any more time on it apart from arrangement for the Spotify and tik-tok edits , it's fine to go out imo. I've not had any translation problems for a while. I mean when you've seen PAWSA - room service go off in a club , it's clear all this nitpicking is just exactly that isn't it 🤣