How to Play a "Crouching Moron, Hidden Bad*ss" Like the Powerhouse They Are

[@happyninja42]

I would argue that a lot of the time the "faker" isn't actually faking it at all. It's just that is how they WANT to live their lives. Given the choice, they would much rather do nothing but make/drink tea, play paisho, talk about silly things, and basically just enjoy living a life, without the need for drama and trauma, and violence. They're not so much hiding who they are, but actually being who they WANT to be. Another example of this, I think is Vash the Stampede. The goofy, loveable dork version of Vash, is in a lot of ways, his REAL nature. He's kind of framed like Superman, with the dork being his Clark Kent persona, and you see it pop up every once in a while, but in reality, that's how Vash wants to live his life. He doesn't want to have to have the "mirror shades seriousness" mode on at all. But he's forced into that state due to his ethics and morals, not allowing him to sit by when others are in danger. But when left to his own devices, without any outside pressure to be the Defender, he's going to be a goofball, going to geek out over donuts, and basically just live his boring life. That is the goal for a lot of crouching moron, hidden badasses. They did awesome, badass things in the past, because they had no other choice. They don't want to be That Person, as it's not truly who they are. It's something they are capable of becoming when the need arises, but it's not their default state. Especially with Iroh, we see exactly why he is like that as well. He knows what the cost of being a "powerful fire bender" can be, and that is the cost of his son's life. And he doesn't want that.

[@Broomer52]

I have a character like this in DnD. Some of us decided to Roll for Backstory. My character had a pretty unremarkable life for a while being born into a family of sheep herders. He’s completely average in every possible way, no tragic backstory, he’s very basic looking that you couldn’t point him out in a crowd, he’s a Grilled Chicken of Humanity, bland and basic. Then one day he got talked into stealing something turned out to be really good at it, became a Kingpins favorite robber, he got out of doge after accidentally starting a fire. Gets drunk one day and ends up marrying a horrifically ugly woman and as it turns out she’s the avatar of a Night Goddess and I have two sons one who was born under a moonlit night as a storm rolled in and wolves howling in the distance to proclaim his birth and another son born under a supernaturally beautiful day. He somehow manages to accidentally join the army where he again falls backwards into glory as he became a war hero. He eventually leaves and for reasons even he’s not completely sure if he somehow manages to join an adventuring group made of a Hafling Barbarian, a Gnoll, Kung Fu Frog Man, a Wizard Rabbit Man and an Artificer. He’s a man who wants to live an average life but for reasons beyond his control he keeps accidentally going on wild adventures. I just make sure to keep the awkward Hapless man personality and whenever things go crazy the man practically Jack Sparrows his way through problems and by the power of the Dice Gods has impeccable aim with a Bow

[@ARatherDapperTapir]

Agreed, most of the time.

[@d4n737]

You Ironically mentioned Superman, and he also falls under this. Klark Kent is what he wants to be. It's not a persona, he was raised as Klark Kent from Smallville. But neither the Mild-mannered reporter or the superhero are the mask. Superman actually is just... a stand-up guy. That's it. It's not a lofty ideal, it's not nobility through pain, Superman is simply a good guy. Someone you'd want to be around

[@happyninja42]

@@d4n737 yeah i mentioned him, but there is a LOT of debate on whether Clark is who he wants to be, or just "the mask" he wears to fit in. that he is truly "Kal-El". and Clark is just his impression of humans. i can see it going either way with Superman though

[@leroyjenkins3840]

​@@happyninja42 I don’t want to come across as rude, so if I do I apologize profusely, but I don’t agree with the interpretation that "Clark" is Superman's impression of what a human is considering he, quite literally, grew up as one. Clark was sent to earth as a baby and was raised by Ma and Pa Kent and for all he knew, he genuinely believed himself to just be an average person. It wasn't until he was told much later in his life of where he actually came from, and even then he arguably didn’t change much as a person other than him realizing what he could do to other people. Most of his actions as superman are grounded in the morals and values that he got from his parents. I think it's true that the bumbling person we see of Clark at work might be a mask, but I think it's a slight exaggeration of his flaws to draw people away from thinking he's superman while the persona of superman is an exaggeration of his good nature to inspire hope to the people save. I think the true person that we as the reader/audience we see of this character is through the interactions of the people closest to him that know both of his human and alien side, namely his parents, Batman and Lois (and maybe Jimmy, depending on which adaptation you wanna go with). I'm so sorry for this long ass comment, I just really like this character

[@nikolibarastov4487]

I think the heart of the Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass is the old adage, "I would rather be a Warrior in a Garden, than a Gardener in a War". Most of the time, those characters don't want to have to use that dark side of themselves, despite the power they have within.

[@SuperMrHiggins]

good call

[@jocosesonata]

"Have the strength to choose peace."

[@aaronbourque5494]

Another way of doing it is The Darkwing Duck: they actually ARE incredibly competent and capable, they just get in their own way a lot because of a personality defect (unbelievably massive ego in DW's case). In fact, this MIGHT be the easiest "Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass" to play in a TTRPG, because you're at the whim of the dice. Dice say fail, you play it as a comedic moment where your character TRIED to do something cool and/or effective, but tripped over your own feet or got in your own way by taking too long to brag about what you were gonna do before you could do it. But the dice say SUCCESS, and you say your catchphase, your theme song's playing in your head, and you just whallop the big bad for more than half their HP, or take out most of their minions, through a genuinely clever strategy AND maybe being good enough to accomplish the things you claim you can do.

[@truekurayami]

"I meant to do that" is another way you can play it off depending on how your dice luck tends to be. They could legitimately be the bumbling moron that stumbles into success.

[@psychicjellyfish9466]

The kind of character who always goes big or goes home, lmao.

[@a.z.pantera5577]

My favorite of this trope, in terms of One Piece, is Brook. Its easy to view him as some senile weirdo who happens to be a skeleton asking to see women's underwear. But then you see him fight, and he's an absurdly fast swordsman, a literal spellcasting Bard, and who also uses necromancy to eject souls from their hosts and conjure ice from the Underworld. Not to mention, he has one of the saddest backstories of any of the Straw Hats.

[@matthew3009]

Too bad all the animation budget goes to the same few characters so we never actually see a fight with him that has any choreography beyond fending off grunts or a high ranking baddie for a bit before using the same old move.

[@matthew3009]

Too bad all the animation budget goes to the same few characters so we never actually see a fight with him that has any choreography beyond fending off grunts or a high ranking baddie for a bit before using the same old move. God, JJK spoiled me in terms of good fight scenes.

[@Sleebers]

Iroh was never a moron. He was just funny.

[@raw_bin]

I do think he was never a moron to us viewers, but I seem to recall that his niece and his brother didn't think him very smart or capable. Though it has been a while since I last saw the show. There are multiple moments in my memory where Iroh deliberately acts benign and or harmless to the point of being ridiculeworthy (like when he's working out in prison, or that moment Azula throws them a surprise tea party at Ba Sing Se, or like when he frustrates Zuko with the lotus tile shenanigans) where someone who doesn't know the full picture (so - the characters, for the most part) could easily think that he wasn't the brightest. Though we as viewers know that wasn't the case.

[@kidalex77]

I once played a second fiddle who was literally the most powerful member of the party. But he was a kid who was abandoned by his tribe. So he glommed onto another character as a big brother character and listened to everything this other character said.

[@elib6465]

A way you can play the second fiddle character is basically make Sokka. He is a very capable warrior but compared to the benders and the avatar he's not as powerful. So in a party if people who have strange and powerful abilities you play a person with no magic whatsoever. This also doesn't have to be just a combat focused character. You can tailor your character to being the face of the party. Like they excell in combat and while you aren't a slouch you're better at talking your way out of a fight.

[@talscorner3696]

I love playing that sort of character ^^

[@SummerOtaku]

Plastic man is such a good example…he was always a joke to me but yeah that injustice annual where he saves his son and does so so much was mind blowing

[@happyninja42]

Another detail about this trope, is that these characters are often still very effective out of combat as well, but it's often by being so goofy or silly, that they charm people despite their antics. So if you are worried about how you can still be useful to your party, remember that people love Uncle Iroh, and Vash the Stampede when they are in the Adorkable Mode, because they are still very charming, disarming, funny, and easy-going. This would translate to having a decent social stat, and at LEAST one decent social skill. If they are actually putting on an act for their "moron" mode, give them some talent with Performance, and have them do some prat falls in the tavern to the amusement of all, but instead of it being an amazing performance, the goal is "and my character ends up at the foot of the stage, with a tankard of ale upended on his head" kind of threat defusion. Iroh is great at this, making people just stop wanting to fight, sometimes literally, and just sit down and talk with him about life, over a cup of tea. Being a goofball, doesn't mean being incompetent.

[@Tigersight0]

I did this with a D&D character once. She had only 2 modes. 1: running in circles throwing light and sparkles in every direction most of the time, and 2: EXPLOSIONS. Something made her snap one time and not fight as... tactically (or conservatively with her spells) as she normally did. She was as much of a danger to herself and her party as she was to *literally anything else.*

[@nobodyimportant6582]

I made a character like this and he was an instant favorite A goofy plague doctor that never takes off his mask or robes (He was cursed to always bear a disease that killed his home town) In the face of the trauma, he realized it was better to laugh. Because as the doctor of the town, his favorite thing was the smiles once people felt better. He was a goofball, but cranked it up higher afterwards, making dumb puns and using Prestidigitation all the time for theatrics Best part? He's a typically evil class. A Necromancer. And level 4 rogue for the feat and Thief subclass to use healing kits as a bonus action My favorite lines - "Know what separates a wizard from every other bloke with magic? Prestidigitation!" Cue a bunch of green fireworks behind him "See? Right as rain and ready to help! Just a bit droopy." He then pats the zombie orc that he just taped together after it got split in half

[@LoudAngryJerk]

I made a character like this named Hoog. He was a big, lovable idiot of a gray-alien (like, UFOs, area 51 type alien) who could shapeshift. One memorable moment was when he had a discussion on the nature of certain protests within a city. In one of his salient moments, he brought up the reason why they were protesting was because the kobolds and orcs were tired of being treated as second class citizens. One of the other characters brought up that was a good point, but also that they didn't expect such insight from Hoog because, well he's kind a dumb. He acknowledges this, then says "I know, but I've been reading." then, in a library full of philosophical works and treatises on the human condition, he brings out the specific book he'd been reading, Jurassic park.

[@tbgold07]

Vash the Stampede is always been my favorite example

[@yochitoranaga]

I was about to point him out too :D

[@Fanboy675]

Hi love this trope. I have a character that's quite similar but following a different line. She's an ancient and wise warrior who's compassionate, caring, gentle, and very nearly motherly. Everyone loves her and protects her and considers her kindness singular and unending. However, she's plainly Neutral Evil and is very much an old warrior in a young warrior's game. A mage of profound and tremendous power that rarely cuts loose, but when she does it's often jarring and shocking.

[@bettertobethoughtafool]

"Hes a war criminal" sorry but, that makes him more relatable.

[@CanisMythson]

The split personality does actually have a perfect foil in the game... The Barbarian. Whenever you Rage, you have the other guy come out.

[@squizzlygrirrel6227]

we have had a game where we had one of the PCs played by two people and in stressful times, they would roll for who was in control while the other mocked or encouraged as internal monolog.

[@danielmclellan1522]

I literally built Eddie Brock as a Beast barbarian with the symbiotic entity Dark Gift from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, and that was exactly the way I handled it. He's a decent guy, decent enough fighter, but every so often, there would be a "We tried it your way, Eddie, now we're doing it *OURS*!" and somebody was suddenly a head shorter. Luckily, they usually deserved it.

[@birdyisblue]

One of my favourite examples of this is The Irresponsible Captain Tylor. It's an anime about a spaceship captain in an intergalactic war that is so aloof and stupid that he keeps stumbling into victory. But the major catch is that the show never reveals whether he's secretly a genius or just a lucky moron. There's plenty of evidence for both, and either way, it's his aloofness and aversion to violence that keeps letting him win in unwinnable situations

[@srvfan17]

My personal inspiration for this specific trope is Shawn Spencer from Psych. He's extremely goofy most of the time, but it's mostly because he's trying to downplay his own abilities to avoid drawing too much suspicion to his deception. My favorite example is the premier of the season after someone important to him is shot in the previous season's finale, and he stops goofing off and running his mouth bc he's on the warpath and he's absolutely terrifying and completely ruthless. It's amazing, and it's so impactful bc we've never seen him go this far or get this serious before, and he's usually the one who keeps the more serious characters from going too far or getting too in their own heads. If you haven't seen Psych you should watch it, it's amazing and it's a mystery show that dunks on cops at every chance, which is so based actually

[@MaxGaming-gp6ij]

What episode was this? I gotta go back and rewatch it at some point.

[@srvfan17]

@@MaxGaming-gp6ij the first episode of season 7, it's so good

[@Irobert1115HD]

homer simpson is a oddball case here: hes a manchild but also genuinely stupid AND super smart all at the same time. with his regular smarts just high enough to notice when his actuall genius shined through for five seconds.

[@kyrose2878]

I love this trope! My current and first long running PC is a monk and the "manchild" variant, and I absolutely love playing him. He's always cracking jokes and being dumb, but when it comes time to fight he's one of the most consistently powerful in the party due to some good luck when rolling for stats and in fights. He even keeps up the goofy antics during combat, which has definitely landed him on some villains' shitlists. I actually took the drunken master subclass to play into his unpredictability. I flavored it as him not having a set style and instead relying on his instincts and natural talent since he never bothered to train. My DM and I are planning for him to get his "talent can only take you so far" wake-up calls and when that happens he starts training and as a result changes subclasses.

[@SockieTheSockPuppet]

So Monkey King a bit.

[@BiggerinRealLife]

I absolutely love this character trope. I was playing with a party for the first time, and they all knew each other and I was new, so I leaned into this heavily. I played a tiefling rogue who ran into everything, tripped over their own feet, always talked with their mouth full, was startled by magic, and took nothing seriously except vengeance. They hear anyone wronged you? First question: “so we’re killing them?” Happy go lucky tiny little airhead who turned into a murder demon when their friends needed help. Instantly endeared myself to this already established party and one of the funniest characters for me, personally, to play.

[@arrowrandoman]

It wasn't until this video that I realized my PC fits the shounen character version of this trope. He's a modified Warforged with amnesia that's basically the Iron Giant. He's genuine and straightforward, awkwardly so even. Once in combat though, he's focused and kind of scary. When the quiet focus continues out of combat, it becomes unsettling to the party since they've gotten used to NV (my PC) being rather lively and talkative out of battle. We had a moment in the last session where people in the party were actually afraid of what NV would do, and it made me realize I can keep that for future moments if I can play him right.

[@bebgab1971]

what if im just a crouching moron

[@happyninja42]

.....stand up?

[@bebgab1971]

@@happyninja42 now I’m just a moron :(

[@happyninja42]

@@bebgab1971 but at least you're not killing your knees with all that crouching *sage nod*

[@HarryPotter-uv8yp]

Then you have some work to do. I recommend working up to doing 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, and a 10K run every day.

[@the_flying_airplane5335]

This is also super fun to do with antagonists! Make an enemy who seems a bit flighty or incapable, one that the party would probably not consider worth their time. Then, when the party has their backs turned, activate bad-ass mode. Makes for a great reveal, I’ve had players be completely stunned when it turned out that all the ineptitude was just an act.

[@chrisg6654]

I know it’s a lot of book to get through, (7 books, 3 of which don’t include the character) but Wayne from era 2 of Brandon Sanderson’s mistborn is a fantastic representation of this trope. He’s a force to be reckoned with and the main character, Wax, recognizes that more than anyone else. He has genuine emotion tied to his antics and he’s my favorite character in the entirety of Brandon Sanderson’s writing

[@neversparky]

I think one of my favorite ways to do this is to have super lopsided stats. For example, an Orcish Eldritch knight with both brains and brawn in abundance, but turns into a comic relief whenever the poor lad has to rely on his awful charisma in social situations

[@rhythmicbaritone1096]

My first character fell into this trope because I didn't understand stats. I gave him a negative wisdom stat and leaned into that once I figured it out.

[@eaglest0554]

I feel like it's pretty well summarized by Technoblade's "Please, just go, don't make me kill all of you." line from the dsmp. Most of them know exactly what they could be, the immense power or potential they hold compared to those around them, but simply choose to reject it because they've seen the harm it can do, or just want to have a normal life and see their abilities as a risk to that.

[@jakovsaric9492]

i once played a bubbly, cutesy loving gnome cleric, who, at one point, turned out to be a tempest cleric other time i played a scrawny, twitchy rookie paladin, who botched an exorcism and was actually a beast barbarian

[@MR0KITTY]

4:42 What war crimes has he committed? The protagonist committed a few war crimes themselves, mainly wearing enemy insignia.

[@kirachopko4386]

Hello? He’s one of the core elements of fire nation war, he’s a coward as he could stop this war any moment just by killing his father and taking country in his hands.. He gifted Zuko a stolen on a war knife.. He’s a terrible person because he never in the series show any remorse instead he’s trying to fool himself into thinking that death of his son “opened his eyes” and now he sees how bad the country is and how great he is for obtaining this “great wisdom”..

[@zgredczwartyniesamowity363]

​@@kirachopko4386define a war crime. His acts are not good thats true but it's war.

[@manoflead643]

Can't be a war criminal in a world that doesn't have any treaties for war crimes and POWs and all that.

[@louieb918]

The way of the drunken master is a prime subclass for this.

[@vyran7044]

Alternative you could use the divination wizzard. One of my PCs is Reginald the lucky divination wizard halfling. He is build to stack most of the reroll/roll optimizing options you can get without going super multiclass crazy. And while it LOOKS like most of his successes are just accidental/luck he is actually using his powers to forsee/influence reality/shift the situation to make them happen.

[@KefkeWren]

I think the narration is the most important part. In a TTRPG, you're going to have a lot more combat "screen time" than in a show or a book. More of the story is expected to be combat, and more of the combat is expected to involve the whole party. Which means that to be "not a badass" most of the time, you need to fluff your combat as being "moron moments" until the time is right.

[@bruinbird4227]

I didn't realize it, but on a recent character I made for a westmarch. I apparently made one of these. This dorky guy who, effectively, is a big ol' golden retriever of a man. Who, well, as the archetype suggests, can kick some serious butt! (as is being exemplified in an arc that just started for us)

[@shrekatemyonions]

The last character I played was like this, generally being kinda stupid and the butt of a few jokes. However, he was a fighter, so it was another story when combat started. In one example, he tanked a magic spear impaling his chest that dealt enough damage to reasonably knock one of the spellcasters down, and later when a party member upcast sleep on the culprit he oneshot their remaining HP with an action surge.

[@danielcox7629]

Alright. So here's the plan. Out stupid the enemy. You need a few odd skills to do it. But you need to defeat their plan by making it unaplicable or countering it as you fall into theirs.

[@possessedpicklejar4762]

It’s tough though if you decide it’s time to start doing cool stuff, but your dice has other plans, and you’re back to being a joke again.

[@narratornate8841]

Yeah, this trope works best with someone with strong stats

[@darienb1127]

Another version of this trope I remember is the character with anxiety/self-esteem issues. Usually the character is actually really talented, but doesn't really figure out their full potential. They're extremely talented at what they do, but they're constantly downplaying themselves because they think that they're trash. This could also be due to some kinda of trauma which would lead to a good plotline. One OTHER one is the "I have no idea what I just did, but it works so i'm gonna keep doing it." Self explanatory really.

[@kyriss12]

Adding onto that is a sub variant where the difference between moron and badass is a simple change in character perspective. For instance most stories in the Dresden files are told from Harry Dresden’s perspective and make him seem like a goofy underdog constantly punching out of his weight class and surviving on luck alone while using humor to keep from shitting himself. Then you get the occasional story told from a side characters perspective and the guys fucking terrifying. He just walks into a crime scene, jokes around, pokes around a bit and figures out exactly what happened, always seems to have a plan, throws around fireballs without a care in the world, and blatantly antagonizes big scary monsters.

[@sherylcascadden4988]

Thank you for this video... I was trying to come up with a way of justifying to a DM the character concept I have for Pathfinder: a goblin druid whose tribe kicked him out for not being a "proper" shaman. He's not a joke character, he's genuinely helpful caring and friendly, with a strong background in healing and buffs. The ultimate support character, if the dice allow.

[@Fwibos]

I played one of these ina LARP. Theproblem is, when I hid during a fight, everybody assumed I was not a competent fighter or anything. Every time I would step up to suggest I could give a go at solving a problem, they'd shush me down. Well, seeing as how I was a Faker, I let them, to their Chagrin. When we all got arrested and I was simply let off and they rotted in the cell, I shrugged and said I would do what I can.

[@Phamtomdark]

I appreciate this video and though normally I would agree with you assessment that the second fiddle would normally not be a good archetype to play in my highest level campaign I have found great enjoyment playing a second fiddle ( Arcane Trickster, Battle Master ) to the paladin who, without going into great detail, stepped up as a very important character in our campaign due to him figuring out how certain elements worked in our game. if you can get a player who is genuine, understands their role in the party, and the flow of the story, then I think this crouching moron hidden bad ass has lots of potential. Just the image of a High Elf Paladin and his buddy the Gnome Roguish Battle Master is hilarious on its own. Thanks for the video.

[@mobgabriel1767]

*van helsing serious face intensifies*

[@Khailward]

OSP fan spotted in the wild

[@markfrey6664]

*Throws pokeball.*

[@doko239]

Shepherd Book from Firefly is a less-obvious example of this. A friendly, grandfatherly old priest, behaving a little befuddled and silly at times, but acting as the conscience and voice of reason for the crew... who can also kneecap a man while wielding an assault rifle one-handed without aiming, and who has identification documents that can make the captain of an Alliance capital ship snap to attention and nearly fill his pants. He's basically Jules from Pulp Fiction but 20 years later, and also in space. Great character in a cast full of great characters.

[@deadmanmouse2463]

I play a barbarian/monk multi class that has a 6 in Int and Cha. I lean into this a lot. Outside of combat he is clueless he doesn't understand religion or social norms at all but when the fighting begins he turns on. The party loves him as the resident lovable meathead

[@someoneawesome8717]

My current character is a "human" paladin and he's a sweetheart, a bit of a goofy guy and generally speaking the word "himbo" comes to mind, however the reason I bring him up is because of why I put those quotes around the word human, he's actually a disguised bronze dragon trying to hide from some hag pirate poachers that are the reason dragons are an endangered species in the setting

[@nightcaller92]

Great video! I have a comment to make though. Iroh isn't really a war criminal, he hasn't done super horrific things beyond the standard practice of war. He was just an agent of a larger vehicle of domination and expansionism, a very powerful agent for sure, but he simply believed the same propoganda that drove the rest of the Fire Nation to continue their war to conquer the world for a hundred years. The loss of his son shocked him out of that imperialist mindset, helped him to realize the horrors that war itself was inflicting on the world, and drove him to more strongly value compassion and empathy. Iroh seems to have always been a jovial man, in the flashbacks during Zuko Alone, Iroh's letter home during the Siege of Ba Sing Se has a jolly tone, but his loss set him on the path towarss becoming the wise mentor figure he is in the show

[@loganfrandrup6590]

I'm actually just starting as a player in a new campagin today, just a cowardly kobold that becomes braver when he is in his element protecting his animal companion mount and his allies. This is my personal favorite character trope and it never gets old to me:)

[@JoeyDieselComedy]

My 3 Monks are all "Crotching Moron, Hidden Badass" types(more or less). It's so fun to play characters like that, because the only time you gotta roleplay a super serious character is during Combat.

[@ajd2393]

You can totally do a split personality in D&D. I currently have a bard with 3 personalities. Went variant human and took mask of many faces so each personality has it's own unique look.

[@ARatherDapperTapir]

Yep. Don't even necessarily need homebrew if you have very competent social sense and roleplay skill. Or you could use something like a ravenloft dark gift as a base.

[@ajd2393]

@@ARatherDapperTapir I didn't even have to do that. They just have different personalities. The rest of my group is starting to be able to tell the difference between 2 of them. The two in question are both assholes. I just play one like a cocky asshole and the other as caring and confident

[@Telawin]

ooh, if you don't wanna play a second fiddle I have an excellent example of a character I played, Ao (5 points if you recognize the name). so if you want to be a sidekick but don't want to be a lesser. talk to another player about being hired as a bodyguard. then your badassery won't be overshadowed by the other like with the second fiddle trope but make sure it's someone playing a very different class, like if they're a caster you're their tank or vice versa. Ao was a dragonborn monk who was assigned to a blind tabaxi because they were a noble. but the thing is the tabaxi was a wizard with blindsight so they were honestly more badass than Ao but as her bodyguard I was the frontliner... doesn't play into the CMHB trope as well as other methods but it's a good way to play a sidekick without feeling like you're a lesser also. I'm totally gonna make my next character this trope. a hagspawn alchemist (fully homebrew class and race) who I'm gonna give a double fakeout where at first they'll be this terrifying figure in a plague doctor mask... until they start talking and I've got a fun and very chill voice for them. and now because of this video I think I'm gonna make their combat style panic throwing dangerous liquids at enemies.

[@danielmclellan1522]

Heh, I did something similar with a Dragon Aspect Monk who was the butler/valet (officially, but also unofficially her bodyguard) of the Noblewoman Abjuration Wizard in the party. He's running around with a nice silk suit, a swordcane (short sword and club - or a staff, if sheathed), and a boutonniere of enameled darts with silk flights designed to look like roses. Prepared for all occasions (including having all three versions of Alchemy Jugs, the Chef feat, and as many creature comforts as we could justify bringing - including taking Skilled to add Alchemy kit, Poisoner's kit, and Herbalist kit proficiencies later), and likely to try diplomacy or avoid being noticed in the first place, but still absolutely devastating at basically any range.

[@uBreeze]

I’m playing a CoS character right now who has already betrayed the party. She is a jester, in the literal sense, ridiculously adorned with countless instruments and never takes literally anything seriously, even in combat or after countless deaths, when she can’t keep up her act, she’s silent, she never has responded to anything seriously during the past few years of play. And for some reason, I have notes in my doc for when the party meets back up with her that allows her ALONE (with some preparations) to theoretically match the party, if not surpass it in strength.

[@Nibiru_-_Gen_Z_Warlock]

My personlly most favourite example that immedietly comes to mind is uhh... Sans. From Undertale. That one game made by a guy called Toby Fox.

[@ZeallustImmortal]

Iroh is a fantastic example of many things. Its kinda hard to talk about elderly but wise and capable characters without bringing him up.

[@timeshark8727]

I used to play a jedi that I modeled after uncle Iroh quite a bit. He was an old scholar/teacher type, very relaxed, a bit cranky and sassy... then his students were put in danger...

[@stewartknoll2338]

I wonder if Bumi counts 🤔 I mean he talks about the awesomeness he does all the time but noone ever believes him cuz its just so outlandish, but then when the time counted, he rescued everyone and quite literally saved the day, and when people ask him how, hes like "you wont believe me anyways" and the story continues.

[@thinman25]

Everybody gangster till the comic relief gets pissed.

[@David-Dash-IBA]

I remember playing a "crouching moron, hidden badass" character. Basically a bumbling buffoon octopus man who is often compared to Octodad, riiiight up until he rips a dragon's head off or hurls that arc's boss into the ocean.

[@GamesWorkshopsFlyingCircus]

I was playing a DnD and there were 2 characters who were out of game great friends and very close. One was a second fiddle Kenku rogue and the other was a blind human ranger. The reason the ranger was blind was because of the Kenku when the two were fighting. A while later they reunited for the sake of money and the rogue would help the ranger by calling out shots (it was a homebrew rule based off of the rule of cool).

[@BookofAnswersYT]

Or chuck bartowski from season 2 with the new intersect. Definitely need some clips for next video

[@fumarc4501]

I’ve always enjoyed the trope “don’t judge a book by its cover”. Someone who seemingly kind and caring, is actually a selfish and egotistical person, but they still appear to be doing more good than harm. The opposite is just as fun. Someone who appears to do more harm than good, but is genuinely good meaning and natured, but comes off as aloof and unfeeling. It’s all about subverting expectations so people gain greater awareness of the smaller detail, so they appreciate others’ perspectives.

[@connormcnulty6377]

The way I handled my character was a wise old (Neutral Good) wizard who would rather seek peace than fight… which worked really well with a friend’s Chaotic Neutral Rogue who liked picking fights. The two were constantly butting heads, never satisfied with the other’s way of handling things. There were multiple combats where I simply did not fight… partially because my turn was almost always last and the enemies were dead by then, partially because I was still trying to reason with them and get them to stop. Well, when we were ambushed by a horde of orcs, everyone was shocked when I instantly incinerated them with a Nat 17 fireball. The guy who didn’t like to fight was capable of the most damage in the party… he just didn’t want to fight innocent people.

[@skeepodoop5197]

I played a character named Billy for a short period of time. They were a shining example of this trope, and were literally built around it. They were a human with a halberd, nothing too special. They acted goofy and aloof, and were always talking to their Halberd as if it was another person. They seemed almost schizophrenic, until the party realized Billy was actually a warlock of an immensely powerful shadowfell being, and whenever they were talking to their Halberd, they were talking to their patron. I played Billy as a 5e forcelancer (polearm master + war caster to Eldritch Blast when a creature enters your reach), and he was an absolute unit in combat. Out of combat, they were killer at deception and persuasion checks, while in combat they were a master of positioning. There were so many funny moments with Billy that I couldn't list all of them.

[@TheTerrainWizard]

This is basically every character I play, regardless of their class.

[@kirstenwyatt9675]

A decent number of my characters tend to fall into this trope. Bard who is everyone's friend, buying drinks, "oh dear, I think I am lost." Until words are no longer an option.

[@cyath3a]

I think a barbarian where you lock off all non passive class skills, proficiencies and bonuses and have your rage act as a second personality would be pretty cool or multiclassing and switching between classes whenever a specific personality is in control would also be pretty cool

[@williammartin9612]

As a note: Iroh isn’t a war criminal. He has committed no war crimes. Being a general, even in a war of aggression/conquest, isn’t internationally illegal. And for the firebending = flamethrowers argument, then Aang, Zuko, Korra, Mako, and (arguably) Bolin are all war criminals too. It’s a martial art in that world, and not even one that consistently behaves like normal fire

[@possessedpicklejar4762]

If I were to run an npc like this, I’d probably make it an enemy rather than an ally.

[@hopewec]

I think my TT character was that. He was a druid/wizard that was afraid of everything, but when the chips were down, he tended to be pulling some epic moves as well (and I didn't even notice), only to be upstaged by my friend and Bard/Warlock player

[@ComedicLetter]

Columbo Edit: oh damn! You mentioned him! I really ought to watch the entire video first again

[@masonstandal5254]

I played an Astral Self monk who filled this role in our party's RP dynamic. I put on a goofy voice, and RP'd my character as being a fan of practical jokes and as a bit naive. In combat, though, he was an MVP with stunning strike, 10ft range, and insane movement and battlefield presence. Absolutely a blast.

[@TheBearJew1309]

'Be, rather than Seem' -Roman proverb

[@nathanielmorgan9108]

An example of how to play a great version of this with the specific split personality trope would be in Oxventure Wyrdwood. Andy Farrant's character Robin actually uses commoner stats, and when he falls asleep or runs out of his 4 hit points, then he's an aberrant sorcerer who's basically attached themself to Robin's subconscious mind.

[@axelwulf6220]

Columbo, Mr. Monk, Shaggy, and Droopy are called in and- The case is solved....

[@Kagira2006]

I absolutely love playing these kind of characters in tabletops, my favorite being in a Final Fantasy themed tabletop I played a moogle thief (the ivalician kind of moogle for those who know) who was just a slightly chubby, short dufus who was usually the butt of the joke for a lot of party stuff and thought to be an awful thief because they were still dirt poor despite all their apparent exploits. Long story short, they were orphaned after all the adults in their village died of a strange wasting illness and later was taken in by an elderly master thief who taught them to be a sort of robin hood "Steal from the rich" type as their protege. They never kept all the coin they got from the stuff they fenced or took because their master was ailing and nearing the end of his life, so it was all sent to them so they could live their final years comfortably. Ontop of this, the character despite all their goofy moments... well the wasting disease was caused by raw magic and instead of killing the younger generation in their village gave them amazing powers. They essentially had "trance" mode from FF9 (if you don't know, think super saiyan... sorta...) and was EXTREMELY powerful all along. They just didn't like using that ability because it tied in to things they'd rather not remember.

[@sladewilder]

Jay, I know you've said in videos in the past that you have a hard time finding new live plays, but i'm curious if you would ever consider looking at TFS's campaigns thru TFS at the Table, as well as The Unexpectables? Both have great stories moments that I'd love to see your take on, given you based a video around their take on perfect cell and said you were a fan! Love the videos, and thanks again

[@seanmontgomery3997]

You forgot one of my favorite variants: the bumbling goof who's actually the main kingpin. An "eminence in shadow" also works well as an explicit stereotype of the trope.

[@harrowedone974]

i play a lot of "second fiddle" characters. the few times I've gotten downed or separated from the person I'm supporting they notice the constant help they now lack. but i often play it off as being a goober.

[@whyukraine]

This is actually a description of me rl lol. When the laughing jokey goofball turns Darth Vader, I'm told it's terrifying.

[@funnyblog100]

My character in a dnd game merely pretended to be this. Gaelyn Morvyre a half- elf bard from the college of whispers. The dm thought he would be the comic relief but he ended up being the most terrifying member of our party. The dm let us start with a feat and I took sharpshooter and later crossbow expert. I also took some levels in rogue. Now due to my bard subclass I can add additional damage to my attacks on a hit that scales with level by spending a bardic inspiration once on my turn. Thanks to levels in rogue I can also apply sneak attack. Now with sharpshooter I can add a plus 10 to that at a -5 penalty to the attack roll. I also had spells that would give myself and the party advantage on our attack rolls such as faerie fire. So he would be hiding, giving himself and the party advantage, and adding 50 damage to his attacks and he could attack twice on his turn. I also made sure to use softer metals or barbed crossbow bolts that would stick out of enemies and cast heat metal on it. So I could continue to deplete an enemies health as a bonus action on each of my turns. This build was nasty.

[@zeekeno823]

Second fiddle could work if molded to ttrpgs. It's like the camp mom in a survival game. Sweet and supportive of other players, but when you press them they'll rip you a new one "Ah, we have the bard all alone/cornered, not so tough without the party here for you to inspire, huh? Wait, that rapier isn't decorative?"

[@thekingofcats27]

Another was to pull off something similar is like the jedi sentinels. They are primarily geared towards sabatage and intelligence gathering, so it is imperative nobody knows who they actually are. This would fit as a character who only fights with everything they have at their disposal if strictly necessary

[@Gunsmoke1084]

The Tick, Gilligan from Gilligan's Island, Saitama from One Punch Man, and countless sidekicks. This is my favorite character archetype, the whimsical badass or idiot savant, be it a caster or a warrior. When I'm not playing one of these I'm usually bored to tears.

[@GiulioBonadeo]

Ryo Saeba: "crouching sweeper, hidden mokkori"

[@micahross8070]

My d&d Artificer is a shy coward who enjoys being lazy, rarly pays attention and often lets others take the lime light, just asking for the promissed reward. Of course she turns into a master tactician that mass coordinates supply lines, feint troops blows up dungeons and utterly crushes battlegrounds with her arch-type. Artilerist.

[@truekurayami]

The "Second Fiddle" type I'd really only recommend for players that have the competency to play multiple characters at once, and are in a group that is comfortable with it. Some ways to help with that is a married couple that fill to different roles in a group, or the supplementary character to an otherwise absurd set up, like Sir Bearington and his attendant.

[@austinatkins9290]

I played a kobold who was kind of like this. He spends most of his time drunk but if he sobers up he becomes a highly effective very strategic master of unaliving people

[@fishnutter5219]

I discovered that trick eventually too! If you mix in some abilities that require saves instead of attack rolls, you can really use disadvantage from being drunk to help downplay how badass a character is while still having some ways to reliably help the party if it starts becoming really necessary. Gets even more fun if your DM is okay with being drunk counting as poisoned for the purpose of spells that cure poisons, and your party starts realising they can unleash the beast that way if they *really* need it. Of course, instant hangover isn't too appreciated once combat is over, and words may be spoken. :P

[@Linadhin]

I played a character like this a few years ago. The premise was: They were an addict to a made up fantasy drug, and they were trying to quit. When they were having withdrawals, they were a lunatic that was barely coherant and goofy, but when they snorted their magic dust, they'd become calm and collected. This naturally made the party start being like "man jsut snort some dust and help!" But eventually in an RP moment the character confessed that the reason they're adventuring is to see the world and go out with a bang, since they're on borrowed time after abusing the dust for so long beforehand. Put the party in the situation of "He's far more useful when he's on it, but doing it is killing him". Made for an unexpected but incredible character to RP with the party, seeing how thay'd shape him. That said, I wouldn't recommend making a character like this unless you're absolutely sure that your fellow players would be able to handle it and play off it, since the wrong party could easily be put off by a character that could seem either useless, or putting their death on the party. Not every character works for every group, but when it works, it just works.

[@colinsmith1495]

Be a wizard. Cast spells like Summon Monster I even though you're 5th level. Summon giant spiders to trap things in webs, but they're really easy to kill and can't hit anything other than the smallfry. Cast spells like Grease and Fog Cloud and Sleep to control the battlefield, but not really be super threatening. Burning Hands to do a little damage, especially against swarms, but it's not overwhelming. Then when the chips fall and it's the boss fight or a massive horde is attacking, that's when you pull out your 3rd level spells like Fireball and Haste and Summon Monster III (Wolverine). I have a C game for the regular battles meant to 'tax' the party. Then I have an A game for when things get serious and we ALL have to show up.

[@jerrysink4120]

Seems like this trope would work really well with the Barbarian class. When it's time to get serious, rage.

[@ralphsexton8531]

In Pathfinder, I am currently playing something akin to this, and definitely split personality. He's an alchemist - modeled on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The mutagen is becoming addictive, and he us very much a different person under its effect. It's been a blast so far.

[@jenniferdaniels701]

Monk- Adrian Monk was a police detective until his wife was killed by a car bomb, and his mental health struggles went off the rails. He's starting to work again as a private detective, even with all of his issues. But he still somehow manages to solve the crime, even if he has to pick up a gun while in the sewer system, force himself to visit his assistant's kid's school for something, or anything that makes him move past his OCD/ phobias for a moment. Psych- Shawn Spencer was raised by his detective father (single father, btw), who trained him to have a photographic memory to help him become the next great detective in their city's force. Shawn doesn't want that life, never fully grows up, and becomes a private 'psychic' detective. He's hard to take seriously, but still gets the job done.

[@noahduncan5998]

I made a character who fits this without even really thinking about it. Gledejex Scredwiddink is a "plasmoid" aberrant mind that was discovered and adopted by Gnomish explorers. He generally has a jolly disposition excited by everything and hoping to meet and learn about new people, make discoveries, etc. He even chooses most often to take the form and stature of a gnome (though plasmoids are still obviously made of goo), meaning his outward appearance is also decidedly unimpressive and unintimidating. His aberrant bloodline, however, traces back to Juiblex so he has enormous power and will to tyranny within himself. He simply chooses not to leverage it in favor of keeping things polite, like a true gentleman explorer.

[@thomaspoteete4119]

I've played a CMHB in a campaign before, and he has become the only factor of that entire year-long campaign that any of the other players or the GM even remembers. Quick story for those who are interested. I played Rezin the Reaper, a Dwarf Ranger/Cleric in Pathfinder. His entire build was constructed to be the best damn undead slayer that I could come up with, as we were playing an undead apocalypse style campaign. Strong enough that a single hit was like a car crash, durable enough to functionally survive said car crash, and acutely perceptive, but otherwise kind of a dumb, clumsy tank. Luck would have it that my boy Rezin ABSOLUTELY SUCKED at killing the undead, as I would consistently roll really low. On top of that, he did occasionally cause problems by putting his foot in his mouth and pissing off enemies and instigating fights. He was very poor at social skills, awful at stealth, and (as I had never really played a character like this before) wasn't really a confident spellcaster. HOWEVER, despite his poor luck with the undead and social issues, what was Rezin good at? Literally everything else. He was the one solving puzzles in the dungeon. He was the one coming up with escape plans when the party was backed into a corner. He was the one who was going mano y mano with werewolves, giants, an enormous insectoid abomination, and an ENTIRE FREAKING LEVIATHAN. He would anticipate a fight about to begin and just coat himself in every single buff spell he had spell slots to cast from and just dive right into the fray, bisecting and beheading opponents left and right. On top of that, due to my natural improvisational skill and a touch of the ADHD, he was hilarious and brought out some of the best one-liners. His bumbling dumbassery kept the story moving in several moments when the game screeched to a halt due to player confusion and frustration from my fellow party members. Rezin was indeed a moron, but he was also the biggest badass at the table who just wanted to be known as a real hero. He got his moment with the Leviathan, and that was good enough for him. He, so far, has been the best character I have ever had the pleasure of playing.

[@samnault716]

Hardwon Surefoot from NADDPOD is a great example of how to play this trope in a TTRPG. He’s a lovable idiot the entire time, but shows his real competence (and even carries the party several times) in combat

[@angrytheclown801]

I played one of these into tragedy. In Pathfinder I have a 5 in Int and Wis, and our GM wanted us to apply templates for powergaming. So enters my skinwalker sharkman that gets more powerful as he eats creatures. I made him a puppy dog like man. Enthusiastic, cheerful, happy to help his friends, plays with his enemies with his teeth. Whoever is messing with his friends is his enemy, evil campaign. He was very funny because I played up kinda a Fezzik personality if he never had an Inago. Just he made friends with the wrong people and this happy, warm, likable guy has bouts where he's biting through ships, tearing armor to pieces, and eating everyone in sight to the encouragement of some very evil people until the crouching moron part went away and he just became a nightmare.

[@RedWolf34ef]

There was a Paladin in one of my games who fit this archetype very well, and it was primarily because he *was* actually a moron. He once believed a lie our insane wizard told him(while disguised as a waiter) that our meals in an expensive restaurant were covered by a Prince that was dining there. He racked up a bill so high I placed a 20 gold tip and dragged him on a dine and dash while the party was still fucking with the Prince, with him completely unaware that our over 450 gold bill was, indeed, *NOT* covered by royalty. In combat, though, he was a complete powerhouse, boosted by the fact that both of our characters were an active tag-team in the group. We worked really well together, with him dual wielding shields and brutally beating the hell out of people while my Fighter/Monk Tabaxi with a gun, often referred to as "Russian Catgirl John Wick", acted as damage support and covered any holes in the vanguard.

[@James-ep2bx]

While yes the rules generally don't directly support the split personality version, mode change mechanics can support it with some basics reflavoring, for instance a barbarian rage could be reflavor to be a personality switch

[@Ellhaim]

I feel robbed that Vash from Trigun isn't here. The epitome of this trope.

[@jackcisney737]

Brandon Sanderson's version is Wayne from mistborn era 2 and he is perfect

[@risperdude]

WIIIIIFEEEEE! Come Home! Jay needs you!

[@Gadamlu]

For a video on Tabletop/dnd and the trope of a crouching moron hidden BA, i am immensely disappointed there wasnt even an honorable mention of Fizban from the Dragonlance books. still a fun video tho