How to Play Frieren and Co in D&D 5e

[@Mario.1997]

Honestly, D&D type sorcerer is a thing in Frieren but it seems to be unique to Demons

[@byrondobbie763]

And ubel

[@j.martinez8767]

Do they? Seems to me that they are very specialized. Lugner does say that he dedicated his life to the study of his craft.

[@haileeraestout5567]

Frieren's The Mimic BAIT XD

[@ObiwanNekody]

​@@byrondobbie763yep, Übel is a sorcerer

[@samuelsalvatore4511]

It's fine! I'll just play a sorcerer with a fiend-themed subclass!... guys, i can't find it anywhere in dnd beyond... t-that must be a glitch right? There HAS to be a friend-themed subclass for sorcerers!... guys?!

[@obviouswarrior5460]

Freren have born and live in dnd 3.5 Fern is in dnd 5 Zoltrak demon is from dnd 1

[@npc_hat]

The black hole spell is indeed anime only. In the manga, Frieren and her clone basically spammed Fireball and Lightning Bolt in addition to Zoltraak. Also, Frieren isn’t immune to mental magic. There’s actually a case where she gets hit by an illusion spell later in the manga. It’s more likely she has insane modifiers due to the level gap between her and other human mages.

[@Scyon13]

The anime only spells are cannon though, they were approved by the author, it's spatial magic. Yeah she's not immune just resistant to illusion magic not sure of the reason, but it's still incredibly high resistance since the character who cast the illusion spell is one of the strongest characters in the series so far.

[@MysteryMedia2001]

Honestly I think sorcerer does really work for fern. She has been practicing magic for so much of her life that it is ingrained in her very soul. She’s as close to having magic in blood as you can get in this world

[@obviouswarrior5460]

Dnd 3.5 frieren = Wizard/Witch lv 15 (think a fight befor) Fern = Sorcerer (metamagic + thesis on zoltrak) Stark = Warrior (Jump skill ) + a cocktails of many feat to do bigS attack.

[@nikki607]

I play in a 3.5 campaign and from what I’ve seen of what the fighters and barbarians in the group have done, “cocktail of many feats” is still a conservative estimate on the sheer number of them lmao

[@obviouswarrior5460]

@@nikki607 From a potential point of view of what classes can do here is my opinion: Monk 10/20. Unmissable but little potential. (But! In Lv ~40 he holds up) Warrior 0a20/20. Everything in potential, either it is successful or it is a failure. Barbarian 5-15/20. At worst it works, at best it works. Magician... 0-5 or 15-20 (no way). It's not the feats/build that matters, it's how you play it that matters. Sorcerer 5-15. Not to be underestimated, but at high level you should not overestimate it. Rogue 8-18. Very good, and hard to miss. Ranger 1-5 or 15-20. Ultra important, the only true adventurer, the team leader, but few people understand that he serves as a guide and is played with profession skills. Druid 8-15. Never seen a player really fail a druid. Bard 5-20. At worst people like him and he specializes in his art. From my point of view of a old dnd player ^^

[@nikki607]

@@obviouswarrior5460 you're... gonna have to explain those numbers for me, I have no clue what you mean to say with them xd

[@obviouswarrior5460]

​@@nikki607 0/20 is it's a bad carracter, you gonna die with him and not able to become somone/riche/... 5/20 Is a ok carracter, a gard or a folk, he can survivre in a city. 10/20 Yes your carracter is a hero, he gonna kill monster with a good team. 15/20 The carracter is the carry, he lead an entier team to beat a dragon. 20/20 Some's talk about powergaming. But the true it's an art to make a good carracter whin high power.

[@nikki607]

@@obviouswarrior5460 ah, got it. What about Cleric and Paladin? Artificer and Warlock are not a thing in 3.5 iirc

[@AndreasNicklasson]

I'd really like a build of Fran from Reincarnated as a Sword. Kinda surprised that no one seems to have done it. Sure, starting her out as a Tabaxi Hex Blade Warlock seems obvious, but trying to fit all of her later spells and abilities in a mere 20 levels is a bit tricky.

[@EvilFuzzy9]

The immunity to mental magic is pretty doable with the 8th level spell, Mind Blank.

[@belrevan1986]

Frieren is an Order of Scribes wizard. I know she doesn't have an awakened spellbook. But she does want to learn all the spells

[@gamemastersdomain]

I did consider that one, but not having a living book was really my only reason not to make her one.

[@LegendarySquoth]

I think a dip into Barbarian was a good idea for stark so that he can benefit from Unarmoured Defence but I wouldn't have gone for Champion Fighter. Stark has Mana, and quite a bit of it. We can see it when we see him through Frieren or Fern's eyes. He uses it to augment his damage and probably his movement but he doesn't cast spells. As such I probably would have gone for Psi Warrior. This subclass would allow him to use mental energy (Mana) to reduce incoming damage, to amp up the damage of his attacks and to move faster and jump further just as he does in the anime. For Frieren I would be tempted to go for Order of Scribes Wizard as they are the ultimate spell collectors who try to amass a huge hoard of seemingly useless spells in order to use them to soak up damage. Their knowledge and understanding of the inner mechanics of magic is unrivalled which allows them to subtly twist spells by changing their damage types or casting rituals as an action, which seems to fit Frieren nicely. A possibility to consider might be a one level dip into Knowledge Domain Cleric to give her expertise in Arcana and access to the low level healing spells she has in the anime. This might not work though as I think it is fair to say that someone who constantly gets stuck in the mouths of mimics can't have a very high Wisdom score 😂. Just my thoughts on the matter. Thanks for the video.

[@nikki607]

You only need 13 wis to multiclass into Cleric tho

[@fortello7219]

17:50 Mindblank

[@keeperofdragons456]

8:41 "An unnamed offensive spell" ... Zoltraak the spell is Zoltraak, modified by Frieren to more effective against demons

[@nikki607]

Theoretically, having Fern be a Wizard with the Metamagic Adept Feat is an option, though she’d only have 2 sorcery points per day per time she picked up the feat (it’s repeatable iirc). I also think that Wizard doesn’t fit with the limited variety of spells we see her use. However, there is no way in hell that girl has high Charisma, which she’d kinda need for Sorcerer (minimum of 13 to be able to level the class AT ALL, let alone have decent to hit boni and saving throw DCs for her spells). So… on one hand Fern almost has to be full sorcerer, and on the other she can’t really be one xd. If I had to make her, I’d probably ask my DM if I could play an Int Sorcerer, and adapt the War Magic subclass for Sorcerers, that’s the only way I can see this working About the 2 “basic” options for what Zoltraak could be in D&D: Magic Missile fits well with it being a guaranteed hit in D&D only blocked by Shield, but the damage output is way too low imo, and you cannot target different enemies with the singular missiles iirc. First problem is kinda fixed by Jim’s (it’s still a terrible return on investment just from the ration of damage potential to spell slot level wise), second not as much. Eldritch Blast has the appropriate damage output for that, and it being a Warlock exclusive spell is a nice flavour win since the spell was originally created by a demon and stolen from him in a certain way. It being added to the Wiz/Sor spelllist through the exploits of a legendary mage (Frieren) is absolutely something that happens for specific D&D settings. I also like that it’s a cantrip, based on how casually mages in the show tend to spam it. Both are very fitting since you get in multiple attacks with a single action. I do also think that Fern needs to be higher level than 3 in sorcerer. At 3rd level you’d have no more than 3 sorcery points (they scale off of sorcerer level, not overall level like cantrips), which is not nearly enough to spam quicken and twin spell, the first of which costing 2 points and the second anywhere from 1 to 9 depending on spelllevel. She also (season finale spoilerwarning, stop reading here if you care about that) passes the first class mage selection exam, for which at ABSOLUTE MINIMUM I’d put a level requirement of 10 (what you needed for a prestige class back in 3.5) in any one spellcasting class, since it’s supposed to be the pinnacle of what a human mage can achieve in their lifetime She also uses the same mana suppression Frieren does btw I do agree with the other comments that Scribe Wizard fits better for Frieren: her combative abilities aren’t really something she seeks out through intrinsic motivation, it’s something she learned through necessity. Feels disingenuous to give her the subclass more in line with what she had to do rather than who she is. There is, however, a fun way we could fix that problem by making her a Gestalt character, even tho that is 100% a homebrew thing: give her the features of both subclasses. Of course this only works because she is already ridiculously overpowered and somewhere in the Epic Levels, which is a point where having a Gestalt character won’t break the balancing any more than it already is, but it could be fun As a side note on the Elves thing: I do think it’s funny that all elves we’ve seen on the show have a LOT of levels in classes that will, eventually, bestow you immortality or near-immortality

[@kizabum2177]

I agree with the Stark's build, Fern's case I would argue she is more full sorcerer. Either rule that she is Int based sorcerer (as it's possible in pathfinder 1st edition) or despite having high charisma she has flawed personality traits masking her high charisma. In regards to her sorcerous origin; she was since as a child having strong magical potency despite any mentoring at all, so being a sorcerer fits her. But what type of origin; I agree lunar sorcery makes the most amount sense and fits her. Also, eldritch blast can fit for the basic attack spell; Zoltraak was likely the first disintegrate spell but was turned to cantrip and magic missile variants. Also being sorcerer fits for limited magic she knows/has learned overall. In Fieren's case, I would argue instead of war mage she could be Order of Scribes fitting more to her studious personality, but could see war mage also working cause of her battlefield focus in the past and fighting demons. But if entertained a crazy idea; she would instead be a wizard to be a warlock. A warlock with a pact of tomes would be driven to learn every possible ritual spell in existence and be able to cast them. She could been Fey Pact warlock, cause Fey Pact warlock also grants plant growth and that can be the flower magic she is using. Also, the beguiling defense would be able to immunize her vs charm magic and counter it back to the caster if desired. But it would mean she has somehow access to wizard spells besides warlock spells (or instead of warlock spells she can pick wizard spells instead besides patron-granted ones). But I would rule Frieren even further broken in being wizard/warlock gestalt combination to get all abilities listed (which can fit cause she is OP legendary adventurer).

[@MrRaposaum]

I think Fern and Frieren would be both wizards in D&D5e. Fern also learned magic through Intelligence and grimoires. The trope of all mages in the anime is that they are high-IQ overthinking weirdos who overanalyze every single thing (even when it isn't about magic per se) and strategize everything they do too. Some of the mage characters try to go a little out of the trope, as that Übel girl and the "cool guy" with the paralyzing spell (forgot his name), but they still follow all the criteria I mentioned above. Also Fern learns a new spell by the end of her 1st class mage exam by receiving a grimoire. Frieren is also teaching Fern in a similar fashion that Flemee taught her. It is true that the anime also deals with the matter of "innate power" (which Fern had since the beginning as a kid) , which is a concept that leans heavily into "arcane sorcerer", but the end they all train and progress as wizards. 95% agree w/ how you built Stark though, except for the half-orc part.

[@creativecave116]

how about frieren's force attack/stare. the one her clone used to fern without arms and staff. it also stated that it's not actually a spell. but looks like it's an offensive magic and a terrifying one.

[@Mario.1997]

You missed out on Stark's lightning strike, which can be either a strike of the Giants storm or gift of the chromatic Dragon for lightning damage or both if you're feeling frisky

[@Sharkakaka]

12:43 Id flavor wall of force as the sphere shield as If im not mistaken you can actually make it a sphere

[@Wheee135]

Magic missile go burrr

[@sebastien5956]

I could also see a case for the metamagic adept feat instead of the 3 level dip into sorcerer for Fern, maintain the wizard progression but still getting the quickened spell and twinned spell for rapid fire, also meaning you don't need to ignore any elements of sorcerer and don't feel the negatives of her mediocre charisma

[@fortello7219]

I'd like to see a video homebrewing the spells from Frerien. Specifically their Shield and Zoldrok spells. Finding a way to mechanically represent the lore would be intersting. For instance their defense magic is useful against basicl offence but weak to large amounts of matter. Aka saving throws. But Frieren tanks a flame tornado with hers so there may be variables. Zoldrok obviously is a piercing spell and yet it can be blocked. So its similar to a mini disintegrate, probably passing through wall spells. Etc

[@Jack-cm3yo]

I think Zoldrok could just be a level 3 single target ranged attack spell that deals 8d8 force damage on a hit and ignores AC bonuses from spells (like shield). and their defense magic could be a 1st level spell that creates a 10 HP barrier that provides full cover but can be seen through, and it has vulnerability to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage but is resistance to force and radiant damage, additionally you can increase it's HP by 10 for every level higher slot than 1st you use. so a 3rd level defense magic spell easily counters an average damage Zoldrok, but only provides minimal defense to a physical attack.

[@FaIIenSkater91]

Could use contingency for the dispell on mindcontrol and charm effects

[@nyanbrox5418]

In 3rd edition D&D, wizards could use metamagic, to mimick this alone, rather than 3 levels in sorcerer which would need a charisma of 13, I would use the metamagic adept feat The word wizard, in english, is synonymous with sorcerer, warlock, druid, and bard, actually Merlin was called a druid or bard, and in the tv show he was called a sorcerer and a warlock In earlier D&D, there was *no* distinction, there was just the "magic user", who could go well above level 20, so to represent mages in anime, I would typically look to other less balanced editions of D&D, since there were more spells and less generic, more specific spells Barbarian is interesting, since, they specifically, like druids, channel an ancient form of primal magic to use their abilities, something which only D&D really distinguishes Like, even the idea that dragons aren't that big, is mainly a D&D thing, cause in shows they are all crazy big because it looks good cinematically, but in terms of real world power-level, it would be impossible to beat something so big, while D&D dragons, actually are beatable, which matches their statblocks, which have hit points Like, the power ceiling in 5e is much lower than it is in generic fantasy, where humans are mere ants compared to demons and such I mean, don't get me wrong, 5e D&D adventurers at low level are far more able than standard humans, but the power ceiling is also much lower due to the whole bounded accuracy stuffs, hmm... like, if you were to take everything that was happening literally, Stark did solo an ancient red dragon without armour or any good weapons, and not using any kind of primal magic like rage Like, Stark would be well above level 20, since he didn't have any special abilities that would help with defeating the dragon, not to mention his strength score would be likely over 30, which by 5e isn't even possible for a mortal, he would be more like an aspect of a deity, and against a 5e aspect (no statblocks unfortunately), he would probably win The power scaling just, doesn't line up well with 5e, Similar thing with Frieren being immune to charms and be well over 2000 years old, whatever her race is, equivalently, is definitely not mortal

[@dragonace4]

Good analysis on the party. Can't really know anything else to fit them.

[@Scyon13]

Although the black hole spell is anime only it's cannon, it was ok'd by Kanehito Yamada the author, all of the anime only spells were.

[@fakeo]

Full may be done doing this

[@colonylaser4860]

Not sure if it works, but fun. Good show, mate.

[@no_name8024]

Please make a solo leveling sub class

[@redmaxxs]

7:23 Actually having magic in the blood is a thing in their world.

[@picuinha]

where can i find your laser wizard school of magic that you mentioned?

[@alexlindner2009]

Just so you know, Satrk and Fern are about 16 years old

[@b-listjester8204]

Instead of the three sorcerer levels, you could give fern metamagic adept instead

[@gamemastersdomain]

I did this about that, but I wanted her to be able to use her meta magic options more than once per day

[@b-listjester8204]

@@gamemastersdomain yeah that is better

[@mileslugo6430]

Zoltrack is actually just a magic missile

[@silvertheelf]

Fun fact: Sorcerers, like Warlocks, can exist via pacts and such.

[@jdrawing5302]

Will you do a part 2 with the other characters?

[@gamemastersdomain]

I'm thinking on it, but most other characters you only really see one fight, but we'll see

[@KojiroNoGanryu]

I'd personally make Fern a hexblade warlock (quarterstaff from Heiter), Frieren her patron, to curse an enemy, and pummel them with eldritch blasts, eldritch blasts, and more eldritch blasts, and get the shield spell. Go into sorcerer after a few levels. Sure, she's called a wizard, but she doesn't seem particularly studious like her master. She can grab pact of the tome and book of shadows for her out of combat spells, as she's been instructed only to use shield, and eldritch bl- I mean Zoltraak, in combat. Only thing missing I really feel is she should have a way to have non detection up constantly, but only way I really know to do that is gnome with a feat, and she might like the class abilities you get, she's taller than Frieren!

[@chazjohannsen]

Yeah, but Tulok doesn’t really do builds anymore. His release schedule has dropped significantly since last year, going from twice a week to once a month.

[@laovazquez927]

where is wall of force in fern???

[@mileslugo6430]

Shield just cancelled magic missile which is funny

[@mileslugo6430]

Sorcerers doesn't necessarily have blood ties with magic

[@xthemystic7879]

It may be cringe to suggest anime, but there have been some reflavors that have caught my idea light bulb. My main one: Tionishia, from Monster Musume

[@amit-sg8rx]

Isn’t zoltrak disintegrate? Great video man but like fern is very antisocial and can’t have enough charisma to be a sorcerer, my friends allow int sorcerer tho

[@gamemastersdomain]

As far as I can tell, (I may be wrong about this so if I am that's on me) you only need 13 Charisma if you want to multicalss into sorcerer, not if you start there. As for Zoltrack I wanted to give multiple ways to use is, since no way every apprentice mage is casting disintegrate, and magic missile does the same type of damage, so it seemed like a nice substitute.

[@S.T.E.A.M.Dragon]

I like videos like this. I honestly would have gone lore bard and sorcerer for Fern, while Warmage is too perfect for friren.

[@kevingreen7330]

Honestly I don’t think Fern having a couple levels of sorc isn’t as much of a stretch as it sounds, simply because she’s somewhat of a prodigy and already had a natural affinity for magic. Sure it doesn’t *explicitly* fulfill the definition of a sorcerer in dnd but like ???? Whatever fuck you you’re not my DM

[@gamemastersdomain]

100% I just forget my exact reasoning at this point, but that could work just as well if not better for Fern

[@barajasfamilybarajas3116]

Say what you will... Zoltraak is just Eldritch Blast...😅

[@HeribertoEstolano]

Seriously? D&D Players need a tutorial for THIS?

[@Houndnwolf]

Do you play dnd? I would love to see your take on this!

[@textoffender3410]

Imma be honest dude this really sucks as a "how to play" since you break a lot of rules in these characters