How to Play the Money Game with Mark Moss

[@davidav3980]

This is one of the greatest interviews I have seen Mark Moss being plain himself !!!! AWESOME !!!

[@JimBarnz]

I believe the best characteristic of your show is that you argue with the guests a little, and the guests have the confidence to push back. Challenging ideas in open debate provides so much more insight than two guys stroking each other’s ego in blissful agreement.

[@TwoPyramid]

I'm not letting you get away with that. jk

[@AlexScorpionVn]

A gold mine discussion: 1:07:38 Three types of capital: Financial, mental and relationship capital. 1:07:05 Three ways to grow a business: More clients, more product sales and more frequency of buying those products.

[@kleinbottled79]

You are both so very right about the new wealth being about controlling your time and place. As soon as I had complete control over my time - I realized on a deep level that I was, at that moment, effectively as rich as I would ever be. I had already crossed the most important line. My spend rate at that time was very very low but it didn't matter. I was deeply free. I was emotionally healthy. That is wealth. And bitcoin helps in both aspects.

[@Average_Geo]

Mark can be polarizing when taken at a high level. He said it well in the last two minutes. There are many layers of minutia to the topics touched on. He provides great thought topics that take more than a few minutes to truly deep dive into. It's the nuggets of thought that are where eyes open, not necessarily the words put to them. And, yes, words have meaning and I get that. It is also difficult to put/recall the right words to convey the thought in an interview sometimes. This was a great interview with good people in the Bitcoin and thought/life/experience community.

[@surfingerikson]

The hard work you, Danny, and your team do is so advanced, but perfectly timely vitally important that most will not get it...yet. and I love the fact that yall keep going for the betterment of humanity. The work you and your team spends countless hours upon...is the legacy of you and your teams gift to humanity...good on you bro

[@137dylan]

I enjoyed this talk, despite not agreeing with all of it. It blows my mind some people would rather watch the same episode of 'Friends' for the 10th time than consume content such as this.

[@niv1222]

I think people are missing what he meant when he talked about the selfish poor man. He talked more about the mindset than the actual balance in your bank account. If you have poor mindset and all you do is pushing buttons in Mcdolands, You are not solving no problem and not adding value to the world. But if you have the mindset of a rich person, you help the world to develop and grow along with you.

[@Pete_L77]

Exactly. People are retards. They can't understand what Mark's trying to say and missing the whole point.

[@S54VR6]

People are going to get cute and try to copy this guy and get absolutely rekt.

[@Tonyous]

This is a vitally important discussion. Although Mark comes at it from a 'white male in a bubble' perspective and skips over all the disadvantages poor people of EVERY color face, his explanation of how the game works and how to win at it is CRUCIAL! Thanks to Peter and the team for bringing us this!

[@AllNighterHeider]

Mark is the first guy I started listening to when I decided to pursue a financial education. I respect him very much, hes always been generous with me. Great to see him on the show!! Thanks for the orange pill Mark and Market Disruptors

[@motopolak]

38:34 Holy sh**. I knew Saylor was a baller but that’s just nuts!

[@hiatuz3512]

Its not $MSTR nor BTC profit money btw.. He nailed most the upcoming technologies of the past 25 years, $APPL $META $Googl and many others.

[@jon8864]

Peters house is probably bigger than most listens who have houses, and many listeners don't have houses. There are levels in this game.

[@joelloo9448]

I enjoyed the conversation very much. Thank you for the awesome show!

[@olgierdkudas]

Great guest, great show. Thank you.

[@em9914]

i think he clumsily tried to illustrate that the more value you bring to people, the more value you get back. If you look at it only through that lens and make abstraction of all the rest, then he has point: the more you give, the more you get back. But granted, he should have put more context in his argument. In the end, Mark is a human. Humans make mistakes. We are humans. Thanks Peter. and Mark for the good work

[@MrBob1984]

Mark 100% right. GOTTA REMEMBER facts dont care about feelings.

[@johnb415]

This! A lot in here prob fall into the category he is talking about and got butt hurt. The truth hurts

[@raywilliamson185]

Spot on Mark. You impress me everytime i hear you

[@ChristianPecksteiner]

I kinda forgot what Mark was bringing to the space. Now I know again. Eye opening! Thx guys!

[@daneracamosa]

I'm probably more conservative than Mark is but his framing is jacked up when it comes to his McDonald's analogy and providing value in the world. To follow his example my dad wasn't around so we didn't have a lawn mower but there were certainly guys on the street corner selling drugs and I could have gone to work for them to make money so that I could have a bike. And Mark how much value is the Congolese warlord providing? How much value are those little kids digging Cobalt out of the ground so that you can have a laptop computer providing? Do you think they're getting fair value? You don't think those kids are providing any value? Maybe those kids should improve their skills? Like I said I'm probably way more conservative than Mark is but even my unsympathetic ass can see that some people are stuck in some pretty bad situations and simple clever analogies that sound good on a podcast don't necessarily fit in the real world.

[@laersignihton]

Thats the thing all his life is in a buble in itself

[@TheBitcoinExperience]

You make a good point, but I think he's talking more about people in developed countries

[@geoms6263]

@@TheBitcoinExperience Nearly Half the World Lives on Less than $5.50 a Day. 1 billion people worldwide live on less than one dollar a day,

[@senorgringopapi2059]

Oh man Mark Moss is awesome!

[@rodrigocontreras3402]

the "poor is greedy" analogy is so simplistic, hard to see this moss guy as a smart guy, peter was dead on calling him on it with moss analogy, does the mcdonalds employee is being "generous" by proxy for mcdonalds owners?? what about if I hire 10 people to keep helping fieinds move??, does the people I hired are being generous for me?? such a poorly thought analogy

[@knoworiginality]

I don't think he's saying that individual "poor" people are greedy, only a generalization of the aggregate poor. I certainly understand that we have different starting points and luck throughout life.

[@eddblake]

Also implies all workers have same levels of intelligence

[@nick-oi1xf]

There are humans that live in parts of the world that are content with doing absolutely nothing with their lives. Not even dig ditches, nothing. But they surely desire to have the life and things other people work for. Sounds selfish to me.

[@Vi3ioN_BTC]

Actually, if you look at things generally at the big picture and more broadly, this analogy make sense.

[@davidcarbon9771]

agreed, He lost me on that point.

[@kbs7340]

Awesome nuggets in this interview ❇️

[@backcountyrpilot]

An individual’s net worth is the balance of what they have produced and conserved minus what they have consumed. People with a negative net worth, or that are on the dole, have taken more from society than they have contributed. I agree with Mark in that they are the selfish/greedy ones.

[@skipjack000]

Thank you Mark for your courage and honesty to call it like it is and with gratitude for helping (me) to see it more clearly.

[@yohan9747]

This interview made me realize how unmature it was of me to want to reach $10m so that I can retire. What is infinitely better is to work right now on providing value to the world while having a blast. Bitcoin can help me secure my financial future and uncuff my hands so that I can do what I was meant to do. Fuck retirement! Welcome fulfilment!

[@insanity54]

I thought long and hard about the poor being selfish idea, and I think I came up with a better explanation based on a couple definitions of money. Andreas Antonopolos says money is a language that communicates value. So people who are poor are not communicating much value. Michael Saylor says money is economic energy. So people who are poor are not creating much economic energy.

[@fmascare6]

The rich man who does nothing but conquer and control with his money is no less selfish than the poor who squanders their talents and abilities.

[@twitafftwitaff7029]

Compounding the value you bring to the world. 👍

[@CaptainHaddock2]

Mark is totally correct. If we work to improve the world we deserve to be rewarded. If we believe we are entitled because we do the same thing without effort to improve the workplace, why should we get more? There are those who perform dangerous work for more money and those people of course deserve more.

[@Pete_L77]

Exactly. So many people can't grasp what he was trying to say.

[@jwat7827]

Good on you Peter, for not letting this chap get away with an intellectually flawed and insensitive, to say the least, "if you're broke, it kinda means you're selfish' nonsense. The guy obviously has a limited world view. Tell that to single mothers, with multiple jobs, trying to provide for a family. 'You are broke and selfish' sounds very condescending. I hope he learned something and uses that newly found insight to adjust his pitch. Next guest pls.

[@philipwellsrealestate]

Agreed. The few good points in this episode were Peter’s story about the factory and the few times Mark wasn’t on a sales pitch. Not sure I believe him in general about his 8 figures and then starting over from scratch… seems suspect

[@CaptainHaddock2]

Of course single mothers don’t fall under the umbrella Mark is addressing. I think your argument is avoiding what he is talking about. I have been both poor and a millionaire. I know exactly what he is saying, and I totally agree. He isn’t being mean. It’s a mental attitude and reality.

[@jon8864]

He'll probably change as much as you will from hearing his point of view.

[@ivanai6622]

There are too many single mothers in the first place - this is societal problem. Also don't believe he was talking about people with kids as a whole, or those with two jobs, so you're cherry picking. It was a reference to the (younger) worker/adult who is capable of a lot more but chooses to not gain more skills in a time where you can literally learn any skill you want today, on the internet. Perfectly capable people are choosing highly distractive time drains like playing video games for hours a day, scrolling social apps, instead of using their brains to be become productive in their lives, and for humanity. Sure, he could rephrase his words to fit the pc narrative but because of his wording, we're having this conversation about it.

[@hkhan1705]

Those who complain about their situation are selfish. Everybody has the self will to be successful no matter where you have come from. Broke people don't understand that capitalism is all about solving the issues of society and not transactional work that they programmed to believe in. Everyone is responsible to change their programming and question how they became broke in the first place.

[@mc-kz8zn]

Mark has interesting views that not many others really go into depth on. I may not agree with some of the conclusions he draws, but do appreciate the thought process and exercises behind getting to those conclusions - that's what I find valuable when I listen to Mark. Diversity in thought is critical. Great pod WBD, and looking forward to when you have Mark on again.

[@anonpst]

nah

[@BatmanBoss]

Moss is the best! 💪

[@sonulgulati99]

Another great episode. Slowly becoming my fav podcast

[@kbrcw2804]

I Like mark but the entire selfish for being poor argument was just stupid and I respect peter for pushing back so hard on it...

[@SP-cx2qi]

100%, not everyone is built the same. Mark obviously has a natural higher intelligence than most.

[@TheKatxu]

I loved that bit. You just don't get what he meant. You don't add any value to the network, you're worthless!

[@muttleyZZZ]

Definitely… It’s actually a rather classically American way of looking at (and interacting with) society. The hallmark of the ‘American Dream’ and their foundational ideology. It’s nonsense unless a society is truly meritocratic, but given that the premise of the entire debate is that the system is rigged against the small guy, the observation is both untrue and unkind.

[@christopherwelsh2025]

Natural selection applies. It may not sound kind but it is the world we live in.

[@JohnVito]

I understood it as “being poor” forces you to think only of yourself and your own needs but as you grow your wealth, eventually, you are able to help others. At least that what I think Mark means.

[@ryandonovan7567]

Which institutions offer the ability to borrow against your Bitcoin? They’re talking about it like it’s commonplace, so curious what resources are available.

[@myfamily9393]

He explained that in his channel mark moss in the video named the only Bitcoin strategy you need

[@franklinromine8600]

What is the name of the Report Mark Moss was referring to with the calculator?

[@jamies6534]

The often mentioned saying that people get bitcoin at the price they deserve is largely true. Sat with an old friend yesterday who's young enough - and in tech - to understand Bitcoin. Was clear to me he doesn't understand and will never try.

[@Adam-ic4nr]

the two podcast goats for the plebdum!

[@MrD_2112]

What Peter is talking about @(20:40) is self-immolating self-sacrifice and people think that it's altruism if you are generous and help other people, it's not. Real altruism is rather atrocious. It is the notion that your own life is not worth living and that it only becomes valuable if you enagage in self-immolating sacrifice for others/someone else.

[@Robyn-Hood]

Thank you 🎉🎉🎉 I am looking forward to meeting up with you guys one day soon 🎉🎉🎉

[@Roby369]

Mark is great💪🔥🔝

[@kleinbottled79]

Main problem I see with a 10% debt load is you are setting yourself up to have a lot of your corn being held by a third party. Something like 2-3% is more in my comfort zone. But even then only if the third party is trustworthy. Who are you all trusting to back your BTC loans here and now in 2024? I'm very curious.

[@kleinbottled79]

'So what if you lose 10% if your getting an asset that you want' but if you are getting rekt on a draw down you are going to have a choice to add margin or get called. If you start adding more collateral and the dip runs deeper, now you are potentially losing more than 10%. Worth pointing out.

[@eddblake]

This

[@jcantonelli1]

I'm trusting no one. BTC-collateralized loans should be a non-starter for anyone as long as giving up full custody of the BTC is required. The financial infrastructure needed to do this in a way that works in the interests of both lenders AND borrowers does not exist in 2024, at least AFAIK.

[@coonea1]

Yes! Personally, I have no interest in playing the debt games with bitcoin. Higher gains be damned, hold your asset and sleep well. If you must gamble your wealth for higher risk endeavors, buy some shitcoins. At least with those, you can still hold the coins in cold storage...

[@MM32487]

No one offers places to do this.. BlockFi was one, but they're bankrupt now. I need to hear more details on how this works but no one ever provides it.

[@Doctor_Manhattan777]

you did good on this mark moss interview 👍thank you for letting him talk

[@jk3592]

Wanna be rich? Get gud. - Mark Moss What a fucking genius! Why didn’t I think of that.

[@sedg666]

Have you ever hosted rahul paul. Would love to hear you guys have a conversation.

[@JimBob-wi3rq]

On the spreadsheet with the retirement calculator, what does "PP-BTC" mean?

[@sTRoUsto]

I think it’s price per bitcoin

[@kevinkelly1875]

Awesome POD as usual 👍

[@chrisbowman3254]

i like that youre challenging this guy

[@mg4u4ever]

I havent listened to Mark Moss in a while as i dont know why but i couldnt connect with him for aome reason.. but maaaaaan was this podcast amazing and very though provokiting. I gotta go back i check this guy again for sure

[@skywalkerjpratt23]

Being honest. The push back was enjoyable and refreshing. Im not gonna just let you say anything and go with it spirit is fresh lemonade

[@ralf6193]

There was actually nothing that struck me in this episode. The guy just likes to talk.

[@graemecampbell748]

Brilliant show. Not seen much of Mark Moss over last year but he was spot on. The selfish comment I got as many people fit that description although many are also just as Peter said born into a 40 year job with no way out. Regardless very thought provoking.

[@TheBeav30]

Mark is right people are greedy and selfish, some for money and some for love/praise. We all do things for incentives and to argue something else is absolutely ridiculous.

[@johnb415]

People are so butt hurt here too because they don't want to admit their own greed and selfishness about themselves

[@LifeForkB21]

When Mark is allowed to just riff, alone. I like listening to him. When there’s more than just him in a video…I feel he wanders off.

[@carverguru]

Mark Moss is an absolute boss

[@kallenstev]

Like poor people who are expending all of their physical and intellectual energy just to remain housed, clothed, and fed have the capacity to just switch their skill set or have $40k to plunk down on Mark’s “Mastermind” group. But Mark think’s they’re just “lazy”. What ridiculous entitlement.

[@captainnova9196]

Mark Moss trying to blanketly claim poor people are selfish is insane. What a disastrous way to frame an argument. Then he regularly tries to change the framing. That was super cringe. Really thought this guy was smarter. He literally gives an example of Africans living under an oppressive ruler who cannot store wealth because it keeps getting stolen from them. Are they selfish? Of course not. Some people are victims of their circumstance and are dealt a bad hand.

[@malkeri2107]

Brilliant content...so interesting to play the game properly and understand the rules💡

[@johnacousticmelon]

Mark doesn't do Podcasts - he does finely tuned monologues meant for talking at someone rather than taking part in a conversation

[@EmilGhiurau]

Time and Freedom, this is what I have been looking for. Never wanted to be 65 yo and 'retire' and live for 10 years what I worked for 50 years. I started working at 15 and have not stopped Need a change in mindset, but defiantly need to take baby steps cause you could easily get rekt.

[@wesleycarter4527]

He is right, if you’re too lazy to physically and mentally figure out how to change your situation… the people at the top just out worked you.

[@hiranm8944]

Can anyone help on the jacamo reference, who is that??

[@DrBrandonSchultz]

Without btc credit markets, how do you "borrow against" btc? Isn't that where Celsius and blockfi failed (yield generation)?

[@J.v.H.]

Great food for thought!

[@kbs7340]

Not selling my Bitcoin. “My precious” Better life for all.

[@darrencooper832]

Think we need to pull on this thread a bit more. I think many understand the game but are tired of playing because of the stealing of the system and those that have built their place within the game. I see many millennials and GenZ saying we will no longer play your game and this is what we think of it. Most would be happy to play a fair,equal and un rigged game where the rules can’t be changed to benefit a select few. This also goes back to education and what we are not taught in schools. Bitcoin is a tool that can bring more equality and fairness to those that have previously not been able to climb the ladder quick enough but is being adopted by those again with financial privilege. I fear it’s loosing a bit of its philosophical cause and is why grass roots initiatives in places like Africa, South America and parts of Asia are so important and should get more attention and are of vital importance. Bitcoin is more than just another asset in your portfolio but more your,mine and our kids and their kids future

[@rwelch76]

Petah: I’m listening 👂🏼

[@starbicycle]

I took every dime out of Vanguard after 22 years. Went to where the grass was greener.

[@torbenbohansen7643]

It is always a treat listening to Mark Moss. Thanks for sharing.

[@cleaningup12]

Great show Peter, enjoyed listening to Mark and not knocking him but Zig Ziglar and Earl Nightingale said a lot of this stuff 30 years ago, like, more you give more you receive and do more than you're paid for and soon you'll be paid more than you do.

[@Apollo21Million]

Interested in seeing that calculator Mark was talking about

[@grandadbitcoin475]

Pete linked it above

[@N0k4N]

Awesome Episode! Where can we find the calculator Mark was talking about?

[@MrObnoxiousPod]

Link is in the show notes: www.whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/how-to-play-the-money-game docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xmEtJEQIytU8_vP6ztt69WTHbXq2x6Q_IjGg5GIzv6Y/edit#gid=0

[@N0k4N]

@@MrObnoxiousPod Thanks mate! Didn't see it because I visually scanned for the markmoss domain name, my bad.

[@grandadbitcoin475]

@@MrObnoxiousPod Thanks Peter

[@chefdenker704]

Rich politicians provide so much value to the world. I am so glad to have them and that they are such benevolent leaders rather than greedy parasites.

[@iuridomingo377]

Does Mark Moss think that the imf is generous or selfish?

[@benthietje]

Two quick things: 1.) According to this guy’s philosophy, a hedge fund manager benefits society more and is less selfish than a typical school teacher. Utter nonsense. 2.) In his story about working hard mowing lawns to buy his bike, he conveniently breezed over the fact that his dad had a lawn mower. He was the beneficiary of some privilege. Some kid might not have a dad with a lawn mower - or a dad at all. That doesn’t make the kid lazy or stupid. He’s just less fortunate. Bitcoiners often wonder why regular folks sometimes find them distasteful. This guy is example A - Z. Glad Peter pushed back on him.

[@sTRoUsto]

Also casually breezed past the job(s) he was given by his dad / friend’s dad. I like some of his framing of “how to play the game” but the way he makes broad assumptions, ignores his own privilege / advantages, and hand waves important details and legitimate questions from Peter is pretty disingenuous

[@Pete_L77]

His point is to get off your butt and do something to help others, and you will see a return.

[@therealjohnnyb2151]

With borrowing against your BTC, assuming the price went up, wouldn't you be able to just pay it off with the growth? Or would fiat be better?

[@DanielGonzales-di6tq]

This turned out great! Other than the selfish thing, he helped me organize my thoughts

[@jonayfool]

Mark’s ideology is an example of what “woke” should really mean

[@urgetodrive]

The "retire off bitcoin" calculator doesn't account for debt servicing ... nobody gets loans for free. Is the theory here that "oh, it doesn't matter because btc cagr is 48% over the next 20 years and you can just keep rolling your debt forward"? It wouldn't take a minute to add in the math to support a APR% factor on the loans/debt.

[@search4wisdom]

Mark is painfully smarter than Peter, as are most of his guests. That being said, it is important to see this, as most of these conversations in real life will happen between similar IQ gaps.

[@zhangwei4622]

If the goal is to never sell Bitcoin then how would the security budget be funded?

[@genocidelves]

We get paid for what we can negotiate. Your value is only one part of this. I make more than most doctors outside of the west. I do not provide more value with my office job than a doctor saving lives. I make more than the guy fixing my car but he is way more valuable to many more people.

[@jcantonelli1]

You get paid more than most doctors outside of the West in your office job because you're providing a requisite amount of value to SOMEone, not EVERYone. In terms of overall value to a community of people, I agree with you and hardly think it can be argued that an office worker provides more value. That said, the economic system in the US is set up to prioritize the individual, not the overall community, which is why wealth disparity is now at its worst level since the period immediately following the Great Depression.

[@backcountyrpilot]

@@jcantonelli1Why is “wealth disparity” a bad thing? Is a skinny man harmed by the body builder, or the couch potato harmed by the marathon runner? As with health, wealth is not a zero-sum hame.

[@1bird_d]

I really can't agree with his point early in the pod about "being broke means that you are selfish" and his justification for that, there are many people who's entire life's value will never be more than a mcdonalds cashier, and that is fact. some people are legitimately hard capped to not provide any more value than that, and those people can't do money tricks since they are priced out of money tricks that the middle-upper middle class can start to get into

[@nick-oi1xf]

And I agree with Mark, this is selfish behavior. I've met plenty of people who lacked privilege and education that managed to reach a higher net worth. Sure, there are people who have some type of health problem, but he's not talking about those people.

[@sydneyshinshi]

He loves the sound of his own voice that bloke.

[@senorgringopapi2059]

$43M bitcoin target, sounds good to me Mark!

[@DanBreit-g1t]

WE LOVE MARK MOSS.....

[@worldlivingrealitieswithlc2054]

Who's Jacamo?

[@RapMasterG]

uhh, where can i get a loan against my bitcoin?

[@dw6064]

What bank are you borrowing from that's not charging you 15 to 20 percent interest for your bitcoin?

[@MR_Robbers]

That was the most round about way of saying we all have access to knowledge so why are you unkowledgable. That thought is both narrow and self isolating. I'll listen to the rest though. Thanks Fellas

[@MrBob1984]

To add value= giving more value than you receive. Selfish people never give more value than they recieve. People that create wealth for themselves give more value than they receive. So stop being butt hurt because truth, facts and reality dont ever care about your feelings..

[@ClaySlys]

You feel the fire in him, awesome

[@Handle35667]

Wow! Building churches and helping people! What a saint. 😂😂

[@MM-su9ew]

Great open minds

[@1geoser]

I thought Paul Newman was dead.

[@SennyMarshall]

😂😂

[@bitcoinpoemspro1406]

I agree with Mark.

[@chrisbowman3254]

13:00 disagree you can be a therapist or a teacher and you arent making a lot of money but you are providing a beneficial service and its very selfless. An investor on the other hand could be a con artist with millions and very selfish

[@MothershipVR]

This is the best Mark Moss one yet. More down to earth than his usual takes

[@Robyn-Hood]

Canadian tax is 50% 😢

[@therealjohnnyb2151]

Good call on the half tax. You're closer at 25% I'd say. Which still sucks yeah, but it's as a round a number as 50% to do quick maths in my head.

[@grantholliday6057]

Good on you Pete for not allowing Mark to get away with calling poor people selfish.