How to protect yourself against a caravan dealer going bust.

In this video I may be stating what seems to be the obvious,
(For information on caravans go to www.myidealcar... )
but i was a bit taken aback by what has happened to a customer of a dealer that went into administration. I'll talk about what the best was to protect yourself against a caravan dealer going bust, or at least how to limit your liability
For more information on caravans please visit my website
Sign up to my online caravan course at
www.myidealcar...
www.atlanticca...

[@chriss4949]

One very IMPORTANT piece of info. Many people do not know that the protection afforded by paying for goods or services by using a Credit card {known as section 75 of the consumer credit act} does NOT APPLY to a purchase where the TOTAL of the sale exceeds £30000. So whether you pay a large or a small amount (deposit) by card, and a chunk by part ex….if the total purchase exceeds £30k……you are NOT protected by section 75. Worth noting

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Good info, I don’t suppose there is any other way to protect yourself is there?

[@chriss4949]

Just take the “cautious” steps that you are suggesting with your payment timings👍

[@dougle03]

Section 75a then applies... from 30k upwards.

[@dougle03]

@@atlanticcaravansUK Section 75a then applies...

[@davidhartley2373]

I will always pay the deposit by credit card then you have a claim on the credit card company and always do a bank transfer for the rest on the day of collection. If they are not happy with this I will buy elsewhere

[@muddymarvellous]

By the way I also pay in full privately.. no loans No dealer fees Dealer warranty - can check van properly any issues can knock price down. Extras thrown in can be sold for profit I can ask about the History I can see the vehicle with faults I can purchase cheaper I can sell privately for more If you have to make a deposit you ask for deposits to be "refundable" only

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I’ve never understood why people ask for their deposit to be refundable, there is no point taking a deposit. And I’m sure that if I sold a caravan to someone else because they offered more money, the person who’d left a refundable deposit would be well miffed, as it would have to work both ways, I could refund it back as well, it’s meaningless in this case, a deposit insures a customer doesn’t just change their mind 3 weeks later, and it also gives the purchaser piece of mind that the product won’t be sold to anyone else. Buying privately you have no legal rights, it can work, but it’s risky.

[@dougle03]

The Consumer Credit Act section 75 has a general time limit of 120 days and a ceiling of £30k - However, Section 75a takes over >30k but the object must be named or subject to a pending finance deal. So; if buying for less than 30k use a credit card on some part of the bill on a credit card; if more than 30k then get finance with zero early payment fee and pay it off before any interest is due.. (Remember there is a cooling off period for finance agreements so cancelling in that period is fine and only the core loan becomes payable, thus 0% cost of the facility for a few days).

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Thanks for this, I might do a little add on video as I think this is really important.

[@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme]

A swift solicitors letter to the finance company pointing out the dealer had no legal title to the caravan they financed followed by a small claim should get the chap his caravan back.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme oh, I was reading that as ‘Swifts’ solicitors I was wondering what the manufacturer had to do with it, and it wasn’t even a swift caravan, I’ve been in the industry too long! I think he was speaking to his solicitors, so hopefully that’s what will happen.

[@eugenedarvell8470]

I don’t believe it . honest caravan dealer. Thank you for being so informative. I wish I knew you when I bought my caravan totally ripped off by the dealer after two years it had to be scrapped. Salvage company said it shouldn’t even be sold to me in state it was .this during Covid. I know I’m not the only victim of dubious caravan dealers but please keep telling the truth makes people want to buy Care from you.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@eugenedarvell8470 oh dear, I’m sorry to here that, It’s too late now but I’ve produced a course on what to look for and what to avoid. Here is the link to the landing page if you think it could help anyone you know. www.myidealcaravan.co.uk/

[@mikepascalethompson8061]

Spot on! Thank you

[@muddymarvellous]

You can of course ask if there is finance on a caravan, if this is the case you can pay the finance element on the day of collection to obtain title of the goods

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Not so much in the case of buying a caravan from a dealer, you have no manor in which to pay a finance company as a consumer, In the normal process the dealer has 48 hours to pay it off any finance line they may have it on.. Buying privately you can pay the balance directly.

[@boombox2661]

It would be interesting if you got together with Andy the caravan expert and possibly a few more KZbinrs and all talk about the future of caravanning and camping industry. Build quality, water ingress and leaks and faults, price of pitches etc. Perhaps get Swift and other manufacturers to talk about it too. What do customers want. How do you all think of how they should be built and cost. The amount of equipment going in them and the direction of the manufacturers. No good all bitching at each other. Need to all get together to sort the problems out. Without being biased.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, it probably would but it would , in a question time type setting with an audience asking questions.

[@lyndab2068]

Appreciate your video we are about to buy a new caravan so better to be forewarned. Thank you 🙏👏👏

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

No problem, you just never know, it will definitely happen at some stage to someone.

[@user-xh8nd8zd7e]

Very good advice👍

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Thank you..

[@KillickGreenieRN]

Excellent advice to would be consumers. It sounds like the Dealer defrauded the finance company insofar as they sought fit to raise finance on a caravan they did not own. The finance company will be reluctant to write the loan down as a loss which means the end consumer will have been shafted by the Dealer and one of the largest finance companies in the UK. There is something fundamentally wrong here. Great video, thanks.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

It will be interesting to see what happens..

[@russellwild8329]

with the part exchange, it wasn't theirs to put on a finance line, isn't there any legal ownership documents?

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

No, a Cris document only proves who a caravan is registered to, not who owns it. This is going to have massive repercussions I think, the finance house have basically funded a stolen caravan. Technically.. and I think that this might not be a one off, it could be of course, but If not they will have to put systems in place to make sure the dealership actually own the caravan going on finance.

[@f22aerialimages77]

Broadlane took my deposit 4 weeks before going into administration. They must have known when they took the deposit.... I'm in touch with the administrator.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I’m not sure that would have been the case, these things don’t normally get talked about openly with the staff until it actually happens.

[@f22aerialimages77]

​@@atlanticcaravansUKsomeone must have been aware, not necessarily the staff but they continued to take monies...

[@CaravanWithThatYorkshireChap]

Not sure I want a caravan anymore. Doom & gloom 😩😩😩😩😩

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Nooo, I definitely don’t want that to happen, I just don’t want to be like the manufacturers and the press who just seem to ignore the issues we all know are out there.

[@whathasxgottodowithit3919.]

Pay a deposit with a credit card, with a Motor Home it is simple, do a HPI check this will show any outstanding finance. If every thing is okay get the dealers Bank Details send them £10 pounds via phone banking. On the day you collect it takes just a few minutes to transfer the balance because it is already set up. Another way is do it on finance, pay it off after a week or two.. NEVER EVER PAY THE BALANCE UP FRONT PRIOR TO COLLECTION. Inspect the Motor Home, Tax it, and pay the balance with the keys in your hand. Caravans are not so clear cut, I may be tempted to go the finance route, if it all goes down hill, it is the finance company's problem, pay deposit with a credit card just the same. Hate to say it, however Caravan / Motor Home Dealers have in the past had history - If you know you know.

[@brianridley1102]

Surely Caravan Dealers could buy insurance that would cover repaying any customers owed money in case the business goes bust? It would be a huge comfort to buyers and a big selling point for a dealer ?

[@tomegton]

No such product exists!!

[@brianridley1102]

@@tomegton think if I was a dealer I would work with an insurance company to get something put together. Be a huge plus over other dealers in this current market where people are scared to buy at risk of losing money.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

That’s a great idea, like a protected by Atol type of thing.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Think egos might get in the way a bit though..

[@brianridley1102]

@@atlanticcaravansUK the winner will be the one who parks there ego 😁

[@dougle03]

Also, there is no such thing as a 'deposit' in consumer law. These are legally called 'part payments', as they are a part payment for goods or services. It's minor point; but worth knowing. Equally, you'd have to give any part payment (Deposit) back if the deal falls through so why bother asking for one...? They are legally refundable; the only non-refundable part payment might be for the purchase of a bespoke product, or for substantial amount of customer instructed non-reversible work prior to collection. People that know their rights are not going to walk away from a part payment (Deposit), only the uninformed will...

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

So, can a customer legally ask for a deposit back? Or do they enter a contract with the dealer which insures it’s not refundable?

[@dougle03]

@@atlanticcaravansUK So given that in Consumer Law there is no such instrument as a 'Deposit' despite the term being very popular; It's actually a Part payment for goods or services. non-refundable 'deposits' don't hold up in law (a person would have to take it to court of course) unless the goods or services were bespoke in some substantial way. Putting a down payment on a caravan would generally not be considered as 'bespoke', thus yes, 'deposits' should be legally returned if the deal does not proceed, pretty much for any reason. I appreciate that a dealer might miss out on a sale if they hold a van for someone, but the courts generally see that as the cost of doing business I'm afraid. Consumer law is actually quite powerful, although many people really don't know their rights and thus shady businesses abuse that lack of knowledge.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

⁠ thanks for this, not sure if this is in the same realm, but would you know about the regulations around a customer rejecting a caravan?

[@dougle03]

@@atlanticcaravansUK Rejection of goods is covered in the Consumer Rights Act (CRA). In short: "If the goods do not meet the required standards under the CRA, the consumer has a period of 30 days from delivery/possession to reject them and, in most circumstances, demand a full refund. This is known as the short-term right to reject. It is also open to the consumer to agree to a repair or replacement of the goods." - Note that the period can be extended in some circumstances such as if repairs are carried out but still not to the required standard set out in the CRA.

[@richardtodd1898]

Totally agree with most you are saying,I am a small independent dealer & just disagree with the px drop off process as that PX needs to be accessed for condition,service & damp to confirm a accurate price prior to agreement on value,the px might require £?…. Spending on it to make it resealable,there needs to trust but both ways,thanks for the great videos

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, I forgot about the appraisal, I always do this before I even take a deposit, but I only deal relatively locally so I can do that. I hate having to chip a customer so I avoid the situation.

[@CaravanWithThatYorkshireChap]

You can check the caravan over & your customer can take the caravan home & bring it back on changeover day

[@raymondporter2094]

​@@CaravanWithThatYorkshireChap That seems sensible. For both dealer & customer. No surprises such as "well, now I've seen the PX vehicle I'm going to have to take £2K off the value allowed on PX towards the new van.." By that stage, of course, the buyer will have made arrangements to transfer his insurance etc and in any event will have set his mind on the new vehicle.... Does he really want to drive back with his old van...?

[@raymondporter2094]

And I agree - pay the deposit by credit card. Always amuses me when dealers wants all sorts of money laundering proofs etc. I absolutely understand the law on money laundering (I won't go into details) but when a dealer once questioned the manner I intended to pay for the new van I did point out (1) the previous van I had was bought from the same dealer and my details and address hadn't changed since then and (2) I'd had my bank account for 50 years with the same bank, branch & with the same account number. That was a lot longer than the dealership had existed. My finances were more secure than his!!!

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@raymondporter2094 interesting, so you’re either in law enforcement, or a mafia boss?

[@hhuodod2209]

I drive past you all the time. Wish i could afford something you sell lol

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I do cheap vans as well, I just don’t put them on the website, pop in..

[@muddymarvellous]

You're not entirely correct...The insolvency practitioners first responsibility is to ensure HMRC get paid first. Secondly the Banks get there money back. Finally everyone else including the insolvency firm. My advice presently is pay on delivery no deposits...

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Ah, of course they do, heaven forbid the government and the banks don’t get looked after first..

[@user-nl1qk8ku5h]

That is totally incorrect @muddymarvellous, insolvency practitioners do not have any responsibility to ensure HMRC is paid. I work in insolvency and have done so for 13 years. HMRC is not a preferential creditor, they have to join the que with all the other unsecured creditors. Preferential creditors are those that have taken a legal charge against assets, such as finance houses and/or banks. Order of payment: The Administrator/Insolvency practitioner takes their fees first, than the preferential creditors and last the unsecured creditors. Often by that point there is very little money left, best case as an unsecured creditor you will get X pence in the pound.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@user-nl1qk8ku5hdoes the premise get sold to help pay creditors?

[@dougle03]

insolvency firm get theirs first, then HMRC (PAYE, VAT, CT), then employees then everyone else...

[@user-nl1qk8ku5h]

@@dougle03 HMRC are no longer a preferential creditor

[@adriandavis9790]

I bet there’s a lot of caravan dealers cringing at what your saying😂😂

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Looks like I might be doing a podcast as well on it all, I’ll be like that bloke stuck in some embassy somewhere.