How to reduce Carve time on Onefinity

[@surfingnoid]

Just now seeing this and thank you for the details and showing each step. Coming from the 3D printer world, where jerk settings are incredibly critical, think of this jerk setting as "the speed at which the change in direction happens." Or, another way I've always thought of it is how quickly you turn the steering wheel in your car, regardless of how fast the car is moving down the road. You can be in a parking lot and turn the wheel very quickly, and not too much is going to happen. Make sure you have a good life insurance policy doing so at highway speeds. In 3D printers, this change in direction happening too quickly leaves artifacts, skips, and ringing patterns. With CNC, attempts at changing any direction too quickly, using a 1/8" shank tapered ball nose, while 3D carving into ironwood at 200+ ipm is probably not the best idea. Onefinity makes it so easy to make this change (the whole metric thing aside), take it slow with adjusting this and find a balance across all tools and material combinations you are comfortable with. In my opinion, for Onefinity to determine 1,000 is "safe" but increase this x10 is a little scary.

[@davekolp4552]

Thanks for the info. My machine comes in 2 days, so I will be testing this setting.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Reach out if you need any help

[@rodneycarpenter3253]

Thanks just what I was looking for just got my journeyman good to know.

[@ericschwoerer920]

Thanks for the information. I've learned a lot watching your videos. I noticed you also changed from 100ipm to 160ipm between the 1000 jerk and the 5000 jerk settings, that's why you had such a significant drop in carving time.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Thanks for catching that... it wasn’t wasn’t intentional. I loaded the same file every time and didn’t make any changes to the file. I’ll have another look at my settings for that file and try to recreate it.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Eric, so I checked my files again this morning. I only have the one file that I used in the video. Turns out that the feedrate shown is the feedrate that the machine had last run 100 ipm. As a matter of fact, when I turned on my machine, the feedrate was showing 0.98 ipm from the last cut just before it ended the run. When I loaded the the same file from the video, it showed 0.98!! Did air carve and it immediately bumped up to 160. At any rate, the carve time for at 1000 jerk is 2:46:59 as reported in the video.

[@ericschwoerer920]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz I noticed the same thing today on my machine, thanks for clarifying it. I adjusted the jerk on my machine today and enjoyed the reduced cutting times. Didn't see any difference in the cut quality. Thanks again for the great videos and please keep them coming.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

You bet!

[@geraldsmith8878]

Thank you, my friend

[@preludecurtis]

Recap. Change Jerk Settings on Motor 0, 1, and 3 to 15,000. Example carve went from 2:47 to 1:34.

[@MattMadeIt123]

Thanks for this info. Going to make this change right away.

[@DesignBuildTDE]

Great video buddy, do you know if there are any detrimental effects from increasing movement speed, or is it fine as cut speed is unafected?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Fine as feedrate, speed and plunge are unaffected. Only thing to watch for is your table, if not properly braced might rock a bit or a lot! 😝

[@tommypers7973]

This is good info very helpful and time saving well done Mitz

[@ClintonCaraway-CNC]

If you also increase your maximum acceleration and maximum feed rate along with your jerk rate you would see a more consistent reduction curve. Plus Using a spiraling toolpath instead of a raster will reduce machining times as well. Raster toolpaths are like coming to a complete stop at thousands of red lights on a long trip whereas spiraling toolpaths are like slowing down enough to keep from crashing but rolling on through thousands of red lights on the same trip.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Yes, there are multiple ways to reduce carve times and this was just one example of how the max jerk would do that. Maximizing feed rate while maintaining appropriate chip load and toolpath strategies will also help. Altering max velocity can cause missed steps so finding the right balance is key.

[@chrisolvera6386]

You changed the setting to the max jerk for Motor 0, Motor 1 & Motor 3 but not motor 2? Why not Motor 2?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Motor 2 (right Y rail) is slaved to Motor 1 (left Y rail) and therefore uses settings for Motor 1

[@Hinkleshop]

Thanks sir!

[@laurac4562]

going to up mine to 10000, thanks

[@gregsullivan1445]

Mitz, thanks another great tip. I have a question about switching to metric, I design in imperial and usually leave my machine on imperial units, do you switch to metric just to make changes or do you run your machine in metric? Also should your machine and design always be synced either in imperial or metric? Thanks

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Hey Greg. Yes, for this change, switch to metric and save. Then change the jerk rate, (save) then change units back to imperial. I don’t believe they need to be synced up but it’s good practice to do so. I do mine both in imperial

[@ronaldhoppus9015]

Hi Mitz, Another cream of the crop video. I was going to mention I heard you say change to metric then make the jerk changes. I then observed on your screen units set to Imperil but the jerk setting was in km/min cubed. Aren't all the settings stored in Metric regardless of what the carve units is set to? And aren't the carve units set by the g-code file loaded? Thanks for all you do!

[@jbrunken]

Thanks for the video, that's very helpful. However one thing concerns me... Didn't the latest firmware purposely lower that value because of a bug in the buildbotics controller?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

From what I’ve been told by Onefinity, the final version of 1.0.7 resolved the z probe issue in the controller. I’ve done several carves since then and have not encountered any issues that I did prior to the final version. I plan to actually do a follow up video on this and validate with a multi tool carve

[@jbrunken]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz nice! That’s good to know because it’s a huge time saver!

[@kdurham98]

Thanks for the info! Do you notice any difference in carve quality when jumping from 1K to 10K or 15K? Any consideration for specific materials like ply or acrylic?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

No, you shouldn’t notice any difference on carve although you might need to make some minor adjustment to feed and speed particularly on really hard woods. Haven’t tried on acrylic yet but it’s on my list.

[@kylemalcolm9395]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz This video was super helpful! Just wondering what makes you say that some adjustments might need to be made to feeds and speeds on hardwood? I'm doing a lot of brass machining so I assume the same would apply.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

@@kylemalcolm9395 hi Kyle. All I was referring to was that different materials may require different feeds and speeds regardless of jerk settings.

[@tiagia3960]

Youre awesome

[@Carpenters_Canvas]

What is jerk in robotics? In other words, jerk is the rate at which acceleration is increasing or decreasing. Jerk is generally undesirable because it creates-you guessed it-abrupt, jerky motion. In industrial applications such as machine tools, SCARA robots, and dispensing systems, a rapid change in acceleration-i.e. jerk-causes the system to vibrate. simple enough right? maybe, thinking about ""jerk" and what it actually means, although you will increase your production time, there is a chance you will stress the system, is this a big deal with the onefinity? with those hefty rails, your guess is as good as mine, I would say that maybe... "jerk" just sounds like it could break something, I'm going to do some more looking into this, there is prolly a reason they have it set where they do, but im a noob right? so i could be totally wrong.. just something to think about, thanks for the video!!!!!!! it for sure wil stress the bit but depending on what bit your using imo.,

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Fair point. However the jerk only Applies to the rapids movements. I’ve had mine set to 10k for 3 years and the machine cuts as accurately and smoothly as it did on day 1. It’s about finding the right balance between effectiveness (quality) and efficiency (quantity). Onefinity doesn’t recommend max jerk to be set higher than 15K so my setting at 10k is well within that max range.

[@Carpenters_Canvas]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz im just a nervous person when it comes to that stuff lol

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

@@Carpenters_Canvas you right it does sound scary with the word “jerk” but as I’ve said earlier, it’s about balance…. Running the jerk at 80k could create some issues (most likely damage to the table first and then the machine.). What typically will happen at higher jerk settings (50k+) is lost steps which is very undesirable. But at 10K, I have yet to miss steps. Therefore in my opinion, this creates an appropriate balance. Not very hard to increase or decrease the max jerk and if it worries you, go to 5K or leave it at the default of 1K. Neither one will hurt your machine.

[@dasfreakster]

Nice video. So its safe to run at 15K all the time?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Yes. I did it for a long time. Just keep your fingers away from the router head when running or probing

[@BANDANA___USMC]

So if you increase the max jerk, are you saying it increases the probing speed as well? I actually like the probing speed that the new update is set to.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

The probe speed will not change. The rapid moves will however. So what that means is that once you execute the probe command, the bit approach to the probe block will remain at its normal speed, but the speed from between z probe to x probe to y probe will be quicker and once probing is complete and router moves to xy zero position it moves very quickly

[@BANDANA___USMC]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz too bad we can't isolate the entire probing events to stay the same.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

I just went out to the shop and tested again at 1000, 5000, 10000, and 15,000 jerk. No difference at all in the probing sequence which I think is what you are wanting. There was a time where this wasn’t the case but must have been adjusted in the latest release

[@donm1025]

very helpful..thanks!

[@BJHermsen]

Interestingly I have a texturing toolpath which was estimated at 1h15m... adjusting the max jerk to 10000 from 1000 cut it down to 45m however it is still tracking to be a 1h15m carve. It is just showing the counter as a negative value now. (1.0.8b1 firmware - also have not restarted the controller since changing the max jerk so maybe a calculation vs reality setting)

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Most likely. I don’t trust the carve times in the software. They never seem to be right compare to what the machine output is. Would be interested what actual carve time is on the machine. Keep in mind that the jerk only affects the rapid moves, so if your texturing toolpath is a continuous back-and-forth raster toolpath, it probably won’t save a tremendous amount of time

[@BJHermsen]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Good call. It is a lot of short rapids but likely never gets up to speed. Typically I have found the timings on the machine to be accurate (not so with the software nor them ever matching) I generally throw the gcode into camotics if i am curious how onefinity will interpret it.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

I do most of my design work on my computer in the house (never accurate on carve time)and load to a usb thumb drive to take out to the shop to get actual carve time on 1F. Never thought to load camotics on my computer. Thanks for the tip!

[@Dronemediacarlisle]

I see your jerk is rated KM/min3 mine is rated g/min what's the difference and what should I be looking for?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Change your settings to metric first. Fly out menu->settings

[@jeroldjay1711]

So what is the down side of having the Jerk setting too high? How do you know if it is too high. I read on the forum that the default was moved from 10,000 down to 1,000 due to problems for some people but how do you identify those issues if they happen?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Hey Jerold. When the higher jerk setting was introduced (I think at the time, the firmware was 1.0.5) there was an issue affecting the probing where when you probed xyz, the z was off by 1.5mm as opposed to just probing z only. This created an issue if at start of project you probed xyz, ran a toolpath then changed bit and probed z only...depths would not align and was. Very apparent. This was fixed with the final release of 1.0.7. As for knowing if it’s too high, start by going to 5000 jerk...if your comfortable with that and you’re happy with quality of cut, then move up to 10,000. When I first was testing this, I went from 1000 to 15000 and ran a job. Scared the crap out of me! However after a few days at 15000, I dropped it back down to 1000 max jerk because of probe issue...it was like watching paint dry, it seemed so slow. I decided on 10,000 as my normal setting as I gained a reasonable reduction in carve time without shaking my whole table!

[@berner57]

When making this change, any advice on changing the rapid rate setting in Vectric for more accurate time estimates?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

For the original machine, the rapid rate should be set to 395 in/min. Keep in mind that a pocket cut will have a lower scale factor vs a 3d carve which will have a higher scale factor. Make not of estimated time in Vectric and compare to actual time on machine. Over a short time, you’ll get dialed in on what that scale number should be. For me, profile and pocket cuts, I set scale factor to 1.4 and for 3d carves I set it to 4.2 which gets me fairly close

[@berner57]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Does the 395 in/min change if I use 5000 vs 10000 for max jerk?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

@@berner57 no. That’s the max velocity. Jerk is the rate of change in acceleration.

[@northofsixty2]

Is this only for 3D carves or can it be set and left all carves?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

It can be set for all carves with the BB controller

[@northofsixty2]

Thanks for the reply. I sped mine up to 10K and what a difference.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

If you find that you start losing steps, back it down to about 7k

[@northofsixty2]

Good advice, thank you

[@CustomCraftedDesigns]

What about motor 2 never change that one? Thanks for the info

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Motor 2 is a slave drive. The settings from motor 1 is slaved to motor 2

[@xntryk28]

After changing the jerk, is it safe to go back to imperial in settings?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Absolutely not a problem. Changing it to metric is easier because the values are whole numbers and not in decimal places.

[@xntryk28]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Thanks...just saved me a lot of time !

[@mattguzman73]

I know it’s old but I just reflashed back to 1.09 aka 1.2 and for some reason even after setting to imperial, my settings still show in metric. Lol

[@BANDANA___USMC]

I am not sure but maybe. I set the max jerk to 10k. While doing a test carve I noticed the 3D roughing with a pass depth of .25 was jumping over to the left everytime it would step down to next cut. Could the 10k max jerk have made it skip over for some reason? I am glad I was using a test piece of wood LOL. If the max jerk couldn't have caused this, what may be my major malfunction?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

What is your speed/feed?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Bit diameter?

[@BANDANA___USMC]

1/4 BN It was the feeds & speeds from library of RIP bits.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Why a bullnose for roughing? I’ve done it when I have small pieces that I don’t want tear/chip out by leaving a bigger base. I keep my depth of cut on ballnose bits to 1/2 the bit diameter. I think what’s happening is that as it steps down the rotation of the bit and that much of a step down, the bit is being pulled into the bite rotation. The max jerk only affects the rapid moves, when the bit isn’t carving. So I’m thinking it’s the depth of cut.

[@BANDANA___USMC]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Ok I will try that. I used the BN bc of a video I watched from Mark Lindsey stating he was taught to use a BN and that is how he has always done it. Should I switch to a Flat 1/4 EM?

[@tylindenthaler7080]

When I change my jerk it completely fries my software to the point I have to flash my OF SSD have you had issues like this?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

No… this is the first time I’ve heard about this happening! Can you contact me, I’d like to know more. 816-536-1398

[@tylindenthaler7080]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Hey there I was just rewatching this video and didn't see your that you replied to my comment. It was actually a control board issue. after a weeks of trouble shooting it turned out to be a corrupted arduino. replaced my control board and worked fine. But I still can not do 10k jerk without the router loosing its position. I figure its because the 1.25hp router can only plow through hardwood so fast. I found for my work the 6k point to work nicely. Thank you for your video.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Hi Ty, the only thing that the max jerk affects is the rapids movement…movements from one location to another when the router is not engaged. It has nothing to do with router cutting speed. That is controlled with the feedrate and plunge rate set in your design program. Some factors that may be contributing to losing steps are feedrate too high (check the units on feedrate too. Inches/sec vs inches per min are crazy fast and will cause lost steps) router speed set too low ( I usually have mine set between 2 and 3 on the router dial). The recommended maximum setting for max jerk is 15K, so 10k should be feasible.

[@RonMarshallrone]

Will putting the jerk settings higher lower the life of the machine do you know? I mean in the same sense as overclocking a PC. It shortens the life span sometimes. It made a huge difference tonight in my times. Almost in half with 15k settings.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

No, it shouldn’t. The jerk setting only affects the rapids…the movement between when the bit is cutting. I’ve seen where these stepper motors are running at 50k jerk for well over a year with no detrimental effects, however Onefinity does not recommend going over 15k

[@RonMarshallrone]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz Wow 50k lol...it would shake my table loose. Thank you, 15k seems to be great!

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

I know!! Mine too. The guy who was running at 50k has his table secured to 3 walls.

[@JF32304]

How can you jog the machine .001 vs .005 or type in manually? Or back to zero vs back to home? There's gotta be a way to do this.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Send me a note in Messenger. Want to get more specifics

[@JF32304]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz what messenger? I've emailed info

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Didn’t receive email. Send to [e-mail]

[@JF32304]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz by sending it to info I'm referring to OneFinity. I just emailed your Yahoo. Thank you sir.

[@Golfexpertbelieveme]

When your machine was at 1000 and you showed the 2hrs 47min your feed rate showed 100ipm and when you changed to 5000 your video showed it at 160ipm? Wouldn’t that be why your first time off was so significant?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

See responses to comment by Eric Schwoerer below. He had made the same comment.

[@Golfexpertbelieveme]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz thanks. Just caught My eye. So why do you think there was such a huge jump from 1000 to 5000 but a small difference from 5000 to 10000? The second jump was larger than the first so in my head I’m thinking it should of went down big again? I’m not a smart person either though so that why I’m asking.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Ha! You’re pretty smart given your original question. Jerk is the rate of change of acceleration during rapid moves. First of all this is not a linear function. I may be wrong but the acceleration time (and deceleration time) of the rapid moves takes longer to get up to higher speed and has to slow down sooner to go to the next move( cutting). So it spends more time accelerating and decelerating to get to and from the higher rate. Therefore not a significant time savings.

[@Golfexpertbelieveme]

@@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz wasn’t trying to be a smartass. It was just a question. Just thought it was crazy that the first one took off so much time and the others didn’t.

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Didn’t think you were being a smartass at all! Just trying to share why I thought ther was diminishing returns at a higher max jerk setting

[@xntryk28]

why not motor 2?

[@onefinity-trainingtipswithMitz]

Motor 2 is the slave y motor which gets its values from motor 1