I should have NEVER bought a combo machine

If you're like me, you might have bought the wrong machine for your projects. In this video, I'm going to show you how to choose the right machine for your woodworking business and help you get started on your project the right way.
Cool tools. Modern Woodworking. Channel: tinyurl.com/2ub9ya6c
Edit: For those commenters who just want to skip to the answer, check out timestamp at 13:00.
There are many benefits of using laser engravers and CNC machines in making personalized and unique products. These machines are essential tools for makers and DIYers who want to add a personal touch to their projects. Laser engravers are an easy and versatile tool that can cut a wide range of materials, including wood, glass, rubber, acrylic, and leather. I walk through some practical tips on how to use and source materials for laser engravers and show how you can sell projects, such as ornaments and wooden signs, for a 50-80% profit margin. Finally, I discuss how CNC machines can be used for more complex projects, such as carving and milling, but requires more experience and investment.
This video covers the advantages of the CNC vs Laser. If you're wondering on the advantages of laser cutting or CNC machining, this video is worth watching.
LINKS:
OMTech website (use link and OMTech discount code "VOELTNER5" for 5% off):
alturl.com/8k7tf
Lightburn Software:
omtechlaser.com/products/ligh...
OMTech AF3555 130w CO2 laser with 35"x55" capacity (same as my machine): omtechlaser.com/products/130w...
OMTech water chiller (same as I own - to be covered in future video): omtechlaser.com/products/6l-w...
Xtool diode laser: shorturl.at/bpxJM (use discount code: VW10)
Beginner CNC Machines: shrsl.com/3zwnh
Starter CNC bit set 1: amzn.to/3nudVTe OR
Starter CNC bit set 2: amzn.to/3GivAUT
Maker Stock website:
makerstock.com/
My Amazon page: www.amazon.com/shop/voeltnerw...
Cork Coasters: amzn.to/42KbzQi
Sample Clear Acrylic: amzn.to/3LTAg7a
Colored acrylic: amzn.to/40Esx0I
Try TubeBuddy for KZbin analytics free (Code VOELTNER): www.tubebuddy.com/pricing?a=V...
Video Equipment Used:
Sony A7iii: amzn.to/37vxJOr
Konova Slider: amzn.to/3jkctxD
Camera tripod: amzn.to/3LU0a7E
Aputure 300x LED Light: amzn.to/3Kbbe25
Godox 140cm Top Octagon Grid Softbox: amzn.to/3FWkKUh
Movo lav mic: amzn.to/3OMmEMl
#cncmachine #lasercutting #laserengraver

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

If you want to know more about which laser engraver to buy, check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2q9f415hNyFl9U

[@linearburn8838]

Ill use a laser modual some times when im tyring to mark ouyt a job on a peice of wood masicaly like a pen or marker my next tinker is trying to puyt a 10w moduyal on my 4x8 cnc

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@linearburn8838 That's a good use of something like that. Not the fastest for full-on engraving, but that sounds like a good solution.

[@tonta182]

As a owner of 7 different lasers and having worked my way up from a 100w Co2 to now 2 big fiber laser cutters that cuts metall all day long my pro tip is when looking up a machine also check the work size of the machine, try to buy a machine that fits the standard sizes the material you intend to cut, for example it's good to have a machine that can handle a pallet size of material so you dont have to cut the sheets down to size, it will be much cheaper to buy and to handle bigger sheets. Cnc routers are awesome, but there is really cool machines that has multiheads so you both have a cnc router and a oscillating knife. If starting a business avoid the new multi machines that combines laser and cnc router... they are garbage in a business standpoint. Also avoid private people and customizations... the time often invested in doing some custom work you never get pay for. Engraving on private customers heirlooms or other stuff they brought is also to be avoided of obvious reasons, always the risk of having a bad monday or trying to engrave on a mystery material and it looks crap afterwards ;)

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I hate doing heirloom projects too. Avoid at all costs. Lol.

[@WoodcraftBySuman]

Lasers are the bees knees for woodworkers. I’ve got a tiny one and being able to customize my work or brand my work is so clutch.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Definitely! Being able to add personalization to cutting boards and other materials is a game changer. BTW- thanks again for your help on this! You’re awesome.

[@a91customs]

As a beekeeper I can’t comment on their knees, but I always imagined a laser to feel like a bee sting.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

At first I read bookkeeper and I couldn’t figure out the context of that one. Sadly I read it more than once. 😂 now I get it. Lol.

[@a91customs]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

[@guitarchitectural]

Which laser do you have?

[@unclerichard6729]

For small quantities of acrylic, check with you local plastic companies, i.e. that do custom work for sign companies and other large scale customers. The one near me has tons of cut offs and scraps they throw out regularly and will either sell cheap or just give them away.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Good idea

[@patrickbodine1300]

Learning the software is my stumbling block, For both machine types.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I find Lightburn to be much easier than Vcarve for sure. What laser software are you using?

[@TheDradge]

I have two lasers and two 3D printers. They have a huge advantage you didn't mention - no mess!

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Very true!! Much cleaner than the CNC for sure.

[@xXEvilReaperXx]

Pretty decent video, though I was disappointed that you didn't say more about the diode lasers in the $400 range. They're great for people starting out and, while they can't do as much as a co2, they can get someone going with a limited budget and help them make the money to buy the higher end units

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you! I’ll actually be having some diode specific videos coming out soon.

[@98xjdriver]

I started with a 100w CO2, now I have that, a 4x8 CNC plasma table, and a small 3018 CNC router to learn on.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Lots of fun toys!! 👍🏼

[@WindRidgeWoodCrafts]

Great discussion of tradeoffs between CNCs and lasers. I also started off with the Piranha Fx (discontinued as noted, but the Shark SD110 is its replacement) a few years ago and immediately knew I wanted something faster/larger. I still have and use the Piranha for its ability to easily cut the ends of boards thanks to the gantry being able to extend about 1.5" beyond the front of the machine. This is great for cutting sliding dovetails, regular dovetails, box joints, etc. I never went with the 2 watt laser module for the Piranha, though they now offer a 7 watt diode for it these days. I added a 48" x 32" Onefinity CNC over a year ago, which does the vast majority of my CNC work. I've been very happy with it. Onefinity offers 7W, 14W and 24W lasers for it, but I'm leaning toward a dedicated laser, instead.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you. Those Onefinity machines are nice! I’d still get a dedicated laser, too.

[@Furby_assassin]

I bought a laser for $800 about 3yrs ago and its sat in the box ever since 😂. My worked changed my hours and now im working 7 days a week. Maybe ill have to bust it out. Thanks for the ideas

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Haha. Life happens, right?

[@foxmoulder7724]

I work for a place called TAP plastics. If you ever need info/ video tutorials on practically any plastic types ,( stuff like extruded, and cast acrylic, polycarbonate, ABS, Styrene ect ect ) whether it's their safety / impact , and light filtration properties, longevity, or just installation, they likely have it. Plus a lot of DIY stuff like making molds for casting, or fiberglass, or epoxy resin tips. A lot of their vids are on YT as well

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Cool

[@oakfieldscreativeworkshop]

Great video Matt, really well thought out and informative. I’d say I’m #teamlaser at the moment, however I have a few projects coming up that hopefully will bring me back on the fence. 👍🏻

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you so much. I find myself more in the #teamlaser category too because it's so quick, but there are definitely times the CNC comes in clutch. I appreciate you watching.

[@rochefsky]

Great video and channel! My experience in laser cutting is that while 50-80% margin soundsgreat, that is before labor... The machine does most of the hard work but it can be time consuming to finish even small items (removing adhesive paper, wood finishing, leaving and shipping). I've sold more than a thousand kittens, which sounds great, but my hourly wage from that is not far from minimum wage 🙃

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you so much! A thousand kittens? That's a lot of work. LOL. I pour every dollar back into the business including my labor. I don't pay myself a salary from the business at this point. Since everyone's labor costs would be different, I don't factor those into the equation for videos like this. Unfortunately, no matter which way I would present a salary, it would be a contentious point. So, I just emit that part from the videos. I hope that makes sense. I appreciate the comment, and thanks for watching.

[@MemelordSupreme]

And don't forget, as a maker. You also do not NEED a cnc or laser. It's a luxury and a lot of the same things can be done with a router + jigs or templates. A pantograph or sign making jig for a router can make some of the same things you just have to do it by hand like they used to back in the day. Not saying cnc and lasers don't have their place, but seeing how everyone on youtube have these machines, it can seem or make you feel like you NEED these machines to be successful or creative. Don't limit yourself to thinking it's a requirement. Especially if you're just starting out.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Yep, just like you could use a pull saw to make a table, but why would you if you can afford an electric saw?

[@AndyBirdBuilds]

Thank you for sharing! Keep up the good work👊

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thanks dude! I appreciate you watching! I know you're both team laser and team CNC.

[@shirocp]

I have both but I started with my cnc machine, and have yet to mess with my laser. Also, you’re definitely right about milling your projects according to what you want to carve on them. And I don’t know about lasers, but there’s a HUGE learning curve on cnc machining. You have to know how to create a g-code and upload it to your machine, then you also have to know which specific bits (spiral bits and v-bits) to use for your project. Not to mention, zeroing your machine as well. It takes time and a lot of practice! Perhaps it’s way easier to use a laser, then a cnc machine.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Using a laser is MUCH easier for sure. Once you get your laser aligned you're ready to go for the most part. There's a small learning curve with the software, but nothing like on a CNC. The laser is so easy, even your grandma could do it. LOL!

[@shirocp]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Now that's a great comparison right there! 😆

[@GMP-Official]

Bro, I watch a lot of videos about it, and you are definitely one of the best

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you very much!!

[@ChadsCustomCreations]

I started with a CNC but now I am fully team lasers.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

They are just so easy to use. Good call.

[@pathardage1880]

Thank you for this. I'm still thinking, but this was really helpful.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That’s great to hear. Thanks for the feedback.

[@AcrylicMemories]

Acrylic Specialties & Plastics in Madison Heights, Michigan has the cheapest prices I can find and Ron is awesome to work with.........Tell him Rick Sent you

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Sounds good

[@cobaltwoodcraft4365]

Great video, Matt! I recently purchased a OneFinity Journeyman X-50 that should be here in a couple of weeks. I am looking forward to scaling my business with it and eventually adding a dedicated laser. Side note, I saw the Fox 26 sign you made and got excited as I am also in Houston. Always happy to find other makers in the area! - Joe

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Oh awesome! Yeah, I was on Fox26 for a business highlight and made the sign for Ruben Dominguez. Hit me up on IG.

[@lucasjhayden]

I love my Onefinity (woodworker) you won’t be disappointed.

[@cobaltwoodcraft4365]

@@lucasjhayden I don’t think I will be! I’ve heard very good things about the machine.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That's a great machine. I know www.youtube.com/@pwncnc makes some great additions for that machine that make an already good machine a little bit better.

[@calvarycustomsllc]

Thanks Matt! some awesome info!

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thanks dude! I appreciate the feedback.

[@baileythompson3680]

Interesting take, now I have to buy a laser. I haven’t even got my cnc assembled yet. Thanks Matt

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Haha. All in due time. Time to make some awesome stuff with that CNC.

[@Black6ear1]

Thanks for sharing this information. I bought a laser last night and I used your code. Appreciate it!!#TEAMLASER

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Awesome! Which one did you get?

[@sccreates]

Awesome video Matt! I definitely need to step up to a big boy laser.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

It’s been a huge upgrade for sure! Thanks so much dude.

[@TheToughGuysTV]

Who doesn’t love a charcheesery board! 😂😂 Love the video! I’m getting ready to set up my first laser engraver, so this was good info for me! 🫡

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Awesome! Thanks dude! Looking forward to seeing what you make.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Just subbed to your channel. Looks like lots of great videos there I’ll have to check out.

[@Tech10x10]

For CNC there is extra time involved in cleaning up all the sawdust or waste material - unless you spend more money on a duct collection system. Also there is an added cost using CNC on metals that might need heat-reducting lubricants and will wear your bits faster.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

True

[@drdirtkansas6824]

Great video and comparison - - I got a CO2 laser 3 years ago, one of the Chinese K40 Whisperer's for under 400 dollars. 40W unit. Then got a Atomstack Diode laserfrom ALI Express. Nice thing with the diode unit is I can Set it on the work... and make artwork the size of the laser frame and set it in the middle of a table if I want, so the project doesn't have to fit inside the K40's cabinet.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you! That’s one of the reasons I got the Full Spectrum Muse so I could use the open bottom, but I rarely used that function. It IS nice to have that option for sure!

[@walterhynson2898]

yes you can set it on the table on the work and burn your house down,What is going to stop the laser from burning through the work through to the table and now you have a fire a big fire. You need a sheet of metal under the laser bigger than the frame.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Pretty sure he was talking about the common application of purposefully engraving the workpiece where the surface is larger than the footprint of the machine.

[@dean_duplantis]

MATT this video is so well done. Awesome vibe

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thanks so much dude! I appreciate that!

[@PhilippeLhoste]

I have no experience with CNC machines (with drill bits), but from my understanding, one advantage they have, too, is they can do kind of 3D. I saw people making bas-relief sculpting with a machine having precise Z (depth) control.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Yes, you can even get a 4th axis and do rotary type engraving. There are some really advanced systems out there. A little more than a hobbyist would be into probably.

[@PhilippeLhoste]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Meanwhile, I saw bas-reliefs done with laser, modulating the power to cut at various depths. Not sure it is accurate with hobby laser, and it needs lot of cleaning (soot) after…

[@kempaswe4022]

Im about to start my new build of a cnc that will have about 2x1.2 meter. Thinking about making it a combo of cnc and laser.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

What wattage will you use for the laser?

[@kempaswe4022]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking not sure, just in planning. Almost got all stuff

[@BruceAUlrich]

Good breakdown about this and good video!

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you so much, Bruce! I appreciate that!

[@Ryan-wt1mb]

Great video! I originally bought a cnc for the 3d carving capabilities thinking they would quickly sell. I ended up finding in my market the best sellers by far with the highest mark up is custom nursery room, wedding, and business signs. The cnc was capable of doing this but the cleanup on each piece was a pain so I got a 100w laser and had it paid off within 8-12 months. Cnc is a useful tool for the shop but for making money laser is the way to go (in my opinion)

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Great point! Yes, the cleanup from those bits is another reason I’m also a huge laser fan. Thanks for watching! Also, very cool to hear about how quickly you paid off that 100w.

[@LuisCasstle]

CNCs do not do 3D, it's 2D. They each have their own strengths, depending on the depth of the carve, a CNC may be better, for finer details, a laser may be better. You can carve signs with a CNC and fill in the carving with epoxy or just paint and those are really nice looking signs. I use the laser to cut out letters and intricate shapes.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@LuisCasstle that’s actually not true. CNC can do 2d like a standard tool path, 3D as is shown in Vectric (multi height tool paths), and some have a 4th axis to do 4D work.

[@LuisCasstle]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking yeah, you can definitely do 3D with a 5 axis, but that's not what was being discussed, I'm pretty sure they're referring to flatbed CNCs. I only mention that because I used to think it was 3d until I saw it explained as 2d carving/milling. I'm still learning as well.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@LuisCasstle you should check out www.vectric.com/products/aspire because they will explain 3d modeling. CNCs traditionally have 3 axis (XYZ) that do 3d work, with additional 4th or 5th axis options to do more complicated 4 dimension carving.

[@tacticalant3841]

I bought a cnc router first, but recommend the laser first. The laser is Soooo much easier to program and use. Its faster and makes less mess. The laser is a good stepping stone in learning before you add cnc routing.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Fully agree with that!

[@Leescreativeart]

Hahahahahaha charkie.. cheeses,,, charcuterie boards! Haha. Love it. Praying another 8k people start following this month!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Hahaha. Thank you! That would be fantastic. Lol.

[@oliverer3]

Just want to reiterate, that despite fiber lasers being able to cut through a plate of steel they won't even touch wood a lot of the time. Don't get fiber lasers for wood or acrylic.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Agree

[@davidtomasetti8520]

Lasers can also be used to make jigs for milling and routing

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That’s true, depending on the ability of laser to cut materials. I’ve definitely done that. 👍🏼

[@verigone2677]

While the laser can be extremely accurate, it is still not as accurate as a CNC Router when doing thick mediums or making jigs. Basically, if you want something to be VERY rigid and repeatable you want router. There are VERY nice additive Lasers for CNC machines now, including some nice 10 and 15w diode lasers that are super simple to tool swap on the CNC. Though I still think having 2 separate machines is better due to larger margin for production efficiencies and the ability to learn both disciplines at the same time while you wait for one job to finish on one machine you learn something on the other machine and start the job. Really effective and efficient way to learn the processes

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I agree. That’s a good summary of the video.

[@oliverer3]

Can't say I fully agree with this, it depends a lot on the quality of your laser, something like a K40 or cheaper? Yes, definitely. But something with decent rigidity and spot size compensation based on the depth of cut will be more accurate than a similarly priced router. Laser are of course 2D only and not material agnostic though so they only really beat routers in cost, maintence frequency, cutting speed and noise from a specs standpoint.

[@verigone2677]

@@oliverer3 Ummm...there aren't similarly priced routers to the types of lasers you are speaking of... Full CNC 4 axis machines are the only rotating tool in the price range of those lasers when you add operating costs...and those will also cut rings around the laser in accuracy and repeatability of the result. Minor phase changes have huge impact on the laser system. The higher the amperage the smaller the tolerance to phase harmonics and induction feedback. the worst thing you have to deal with on a rotating tool is properly setting up the machine with proper leveling. Lasers are far superior at doing Flat 2d work where 10 thousandths of slop are not even noticeable or cared about, or extremely intricate work on very thin metals (though this is actually usually an additive process in high volume MFG) micro sintered circuit boards are super fast to produce now.

[@xdabblex22]

5:05 the homie had something else on the mind. Lol 😂

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

HAHAHA! Never heard of a char-cuchie board? LOL!

[@gabrielmartinez2439]

Great analysis. Thank you.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank YOU

[@gigmaresh8772]

Now you are talking about those really expensive signs. Used to make a lot of money with them . . . The crew loaded them on my step deck and i would drag my pool noodles to place between the dunage and the sign. Really expensive to show up with a damaged unit. Just saying

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

damaged goods are no fun, for sure!

[@xyzspec82]

Really good content. Subscribed 👌🏻

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you so much!

[@djtchort]

I had an engraver, ended up getting a Lead 1010 from OpenBuilds ands and a 20Watt diode laser head from Comgrow. So i just attach the laser to the CNC when I have to

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

20 watts is much better than my old crappy 3 watt diode. LOL!

[@makingathome]

I definitely like having both a lasers and CNCs in the shop. I just need to upgrade my CNC. I love having robot workers at my disposal.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You make some really incredible stuff with yours too. I need to get on the plans stuff like you do.

[@spiritburners]

useful informative video, a general overview for newbies but dont forget girls and boys that you dont have to spend $$$ you can easily start at sub 500 for a combined CNC/laser Sainsmart in the US do nice budget level machines but if you think you are going to want to go bigger then move up to higher quality machines which are around $1500 starting price. as of June 2023

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

There are definitely uses for those beginner machines. In my experience, and from those I interview on my podcast, always try to get one size bigger than you think you’ll need because you’ll likely need it. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@treyjones424]

great video sir!!!

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thanks dude! I appreciate that.

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

Have not tried Cork, nice tip. Got 3018 with 2.5W laser so can try both.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Awesome! Let me know how it turns out!

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking It is a toy, good for learning, hard to break bits when crashing it, but strong enough for upcut bits to rip stock off double sided tape. One of the first thing I learned is I am allergic to formaldehyde in MDF and MDF makes a lot of dust. DIY coffee jar vortex system fixed that. Learning G-code is another big learning step. Spending much more $$$ and getting a ready to run laser system with fume extraction etc makes more production sense, if I knew what I was going to make except a mess, haha. Next time I am in Dollar store I will grab some cork coasters. Thinking 10-20Watt Diode laser might be the next upgrade, but now 30W ones are coming out. So I will wait and see and practice my CAD/CAM coding. Cutting clear Acrylic is CO2 laser selling point. Get one of everything? Those Fiber lasers are really good on Brass/metal so maybe go that way. Desktop water jet cutter? The choices for home shop/small business are many now.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

If you can swing getting a 40-50w CO2 over a diode laser I highly recommend it. You'll save a lot of time and it can cut clear acrylic for templates and such. Diode is going to much more limiting.

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking The new Xtool P2 55W CO2 now has some serious ease of use features, compared to a Trotec etc it is a bargain. But have lots of CNC and design stuff to master first.

[@MysticalHomeCreations]

If people wanna use the custom cutting bored use the back so your not damaging the design and it can still be functional

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Definitely an option

[@danieller9645]

Hello. I really enjoy your videos. I have a XTool D1 and F1. I also have a Glowforge. I love engraving. I’m struggling with getting into selling my stuff. I don’t know where to start

[@danieller9645]

I want to start on Etsy. I’m stuck with how much to charge. You threw numbers out like a pro. Any advice?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

The best place to start is Etsy. Start looking at the competition out there and find a gap in the market. Price your products accordingly, but keep in mind a lot of the bigger sellers have items already prepped and in bulk; their design time is mostly already captured or accounted for so they are usually charging for materials + time + tool maintenance + margin. If an item costs you $10 in materials, you can expect to charge something between $30-$40 completed (materials*3.3 is a good number for me but may be different for you). You can also look at Facebook marketplace or do a google search and see if people are selling similar products. I recommend starting on the higher end to capture your design time up front for your items, and if you don't sell any (or much) products, then come down a bit. You'll know you've hit your price point when you start getting more business than you can handle. Make sure your photos (and videos) are better than the competition and you'll stand out. Of course, you'll have to fight through the competition because they often have priority spots in search, but patience will be your friend. Keep making, and it will come through. Best of luck!

[@christosvolikakis1523]

So basically, “it depends on what you wanna do.” Is the answer to what you should get first?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Essentially yes. Combo units are much better these days than they were 5-6 years ago, but I recommend dedicated units instead of the router/laser combo because those units are generally lower wattage lasers.

[@oliverer3]

Pretty much, a router is technically more versatile but there are certainly drawbacks. You wouldn't want to run a CNC router in an apartment for example while a laser wouldn't be an issue (with ventilation)

[@durere]

charcu-cheeseboards. I love your dadness.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Hahaha. 😜

[@MrDe0]

Both are CNC Machines😅 Whether it is a 3D printer, Laser Engraver, Water Jet, Plasma Cutter or a milling machine (Some call it a CNC Router) all of those are considered CNC Machines 🌹

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Agree. They are all computerized numerical control machines but I refer to them by the common names for beginners or those researching the different types. 👍🏼

[@dulo80]

Nice video and well said. I made the "mistake" back in the days when I bought my M1000 with the DL445 laser. While it was OK for engraving it was very limited so I bought an Opt Laser which is much better but still 6W. So I paid the price of this lesson 3 years ago :) Another thing to consider is when you have to use the laser you need to switch the tool which also takes time plus need to make sure the spindle is set well switching back. I had some problems with this CNC with tramming (more with shimming). Do you have a good way to do that other than what Stepcraft recommends with the X axis?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I never ended up getting the laser module for the M1000. If you use a flattening bit for your surface your bed should be parallel to the gantry to help avoid issues, but still not as good as a dedicated unit for sure.

[@a91customs]

Good video Matt. I don’t have either but have a stationary cnc on the way🏄‍♂️

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Right on! Can't wait to see what you come up with on that thing with your talent level.

[@a91customs]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Right now I’ll consider learning how to turn it on a win😳

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

hahaha...I hear ya. Lots of great help out there when you need it though. You'll be fine.

[@a91customs]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking hope so

[@sciCHD]

Hey nice Bokeh, very informative video, (I liked the "Charcuterie" delicatessen word ;-) Cheers from Geneva Switzerland

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

HAHA. Thanks! People love a good charcuterie joke. :) Cheers!

[@oscarjagal1081]

Thank you for this great video and informative 👍 What you recommend laser machine size for luthier making guitar and other strings instrument ? i only need it just for inlay decorating using 3mm thickness hardwood and abalone and mother of pearl.. . Thank you 😊

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I’ve never engraved mother of pearl, but to cut 3mm wood you could use a smaller laser like the xTool D1 pro. It will leave some charring on the cuts but should clean up fairly well. Check out XTool here and use code VOELTNER10 if you end up wanting to buy: tr.ee/9BN1lszgAt You can email me if you have questions about the xTool.

[@gigmaresh8772]

Do you have a video on a (less expensive) machine that can make 3d aluminum plaques - I've had a request to create some for Boler Camper owners that have over the years either damaged one or more of theirs to mishaps or downright theft. The originals were plastic. I mentioned they should have been metal. Now I'm thinking I can supply them to the thousands of us that would like to show our pride with a really spiffy replacement. They are not very thick, but measure about 6" by 8". And the really affordable machines I have investigated do not measure up. Any help would be appreciated😊

[@gigmaresh8772]

Or should I trust my Boler plaque to someone to create a mold for me and just do it (kinda like sand casting) and pour melted aluminum in? Well, I used to help my dad cast his own bullets. It is not that hard working with melted metal. Heck, I even still have his leather apron 😅

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

This is going to require either a CO2 or fiber laser and the best way to cut aluminum and have it end up clean is by using argon or nitrogen. Most lower end models of these machines will need to be retrofitted to allow for those gases. It's going to start adding up in cost so it may not be economical for you to buy a machine for this type of project without having an initial investment to cover your costs. I haven't done any metal cutting on my lasers so I'm not an expert, but looking at various options for research on my videos that is the best answer I have seen in the various threads I've researched. I hope this helps.

[@BradsWorkbench]

Good info.... i think a laser has a faster ROI for most people. I just got lucky and won my cnc a few years ago

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

It's definitely easier to get up and running with a laser, especially some entry level systems, and pay for the machine much faster. Winning a CNC is winning at life. LOL!

[@coreydavoll7622]

#teamcnc for me! I built a chicken coop and run to get the approval to by the CNC lol

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Always best to run your ideas past the CNC. 😂

[@coreydavoll7622]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking 😂 eye kan spel wrighte!!!

[@carymartz8762]

Router bits from Align Carbide are a great value.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I currently use Amana bits because of the astra coating and how long they last, but it's always good to hear of other brands. Thanks for sharing.

[@CoreyShockey]

As a longtime scroll saw user, I have held out on buying either of these machines for a very, very long time. However, I am beginning to think more about the limitations I'm putting on my abilities, as opposed to thinking of laser cutting as an abhorrent shortcut. I guess it must be how the buggy whip manufacturers thought about the first cars, if you get my meaning. Great video with lots of information to consider.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you! I’m actually going to be doing a video about how the laser cutter makes the scroll saw (almost) unnecessary. If you’re making more than one of something on a regular basis, the laser can save a ton of time. I’ve got a couple of videos planned out for the next month or so. Hope you’ll stick around. Thanks for watching and let me know if you have any questions.

[@CoreyShockey]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking after a couple days of fairly intense research, I've determined that I know less than I imagined about newer technology in wood tools. I think I may be more confused than before when I just disliked it. Lol

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@CoreyShockey I think you’ll be very surprised with the ease of use of a laser. If you can follow a recipe you can use a laser. I would start there before launching into the CNC space. The barrier to entry is a lot lower.

[@CoreyShockey]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking I guess I'm thinking in terms of which laser tool to get. I'm honestly still not too interested in CNC. However personalized options will be great for my jewelry box builds and other things I'm considering. I'm struggling with diode vs CO2 and the size of the unit. While price is always a consideration, space is honestly my biggest concern. My shop is a part of a 2 car garage and everything has to be pretty mobile or bench top so I can move it around as needed.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Did you check out this video? The BEST laser to make you money! kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2q9f415hNyFl9U

[@ramonhamm3885]

I like my Glowforge Pro but they have no way to add a rotary device to it without a lot of hacking, physically and with software. It seems like someone would come up with a CNC machine that you could switch out the head to have a laser or router bits or even more. Adding a water jet might be too hard to contain the water mess but you see where I'm going with this invention.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I had the Muse laser and it has a riser that you can add for a rotary. They are very similar to the GF. Honestly getting on to the lightburn platform has been fantastic and I’m glad I made the switch. There are some CNCs that implement both a 3d and laser module as well, but I’m a fan of the stand alone units. I don’t want a lot of dust around my laser, and especially around something I would want to 3d print. People do seem fairly happy with the newer units that can do all 3, but there are only a few people who have done reviews on them. I’m sure there is a market for that though.

[@ramonhamm3885]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Thanks for the info.

[@v8thumpertwin]

Do you have any links to where you buy HDU board? I didn't see any in the description or comments. Thanks!!!

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You can check out www.grimco.com. You'll have to set up an account with them, but they do ship to you. There are a couple of other suppliers, but I think their pricing is fair and it ships quickly.

[@twinenk15]

Your video randomly popped up. It picked my interest. But, as I am watching your video, I wondering how would this affect my electric bill. My garage is separate from my house. One power cord running under the ground to provide power to my garage. So, thinking I would need a breaker box at my garage. What do you need to do to prep your space to accommodate power requirements?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You’ll need two outlets to run this with the water chiller, and mine are connected to a 30-amp breaker. If you only have one extension cord you’ll likely need to run a dedicated line to the garage that would be protected. Hope that helps.

[@DrgnSlyr]

Hiving separate machines is the way to go. You wouldn't want to wait for your 'employee' to finish one job while waiting to start a different job.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

For sure! I wish I would have done it when I first started, but I wasn’t consuming enough KZbin content at that time to know better. Hopefully I’ve helped someone make the decision easier. Thanks for watching and commenting. I really appreciate the feedback.

[@tomadams-mh1gb]

Will lightburn work on any laser engraving machine, I have a adnoom thank you for your help.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I’m not familiar with that brand, but I did a quick search and it looks like that company does more than just lasers so I would think it’s a machine built by another manufacturer and sold on Amazon under that name. If you could find out the actual manufacturer of that machine you could probably check if the main unit accepts Lightburn. If it came with its own proprietary software they probably want you to use that.

[@MSaxton1]

Just found your channel today and am loving your content. I am retiring in November at 49 and plan to make a second career out of my creative side. I have been 3d printing for years and have 5 machines that will soon be dedicated to business and now want to branch into Laser Engraving and eventually CNC. Is there a huge downside to starting with a diode laser to get off the ground given the low price of entry?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thank you so much! Not at all. I’m fact, I’m going to do a video on diode lasers soon. I would recommend checking out XTool 20w D1 Pro. It’s a reasonable price point. If you’ll be doing cutting with it then you can consider upgrading to the 40w module which can be swapped out interchangeably. @xtoollaser

[@MSaxton1]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Our plan was to begin with products like etching yeti mugs, wood and slate coasters, aluminum business cards, as well as some cutting so the XTool 40w D1 Pro with the risers and rotary is actually what I had been considering. I am concerned with outgrowing it quickly given it will soon become my full time business but at the under $2000 price point I imagine it will pay for itself fast anyways.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I think it’s smart to start with that system and then upgrade once you figure out what sells and what doesn’t. Then you’ll have a dedicated unit you can use for rotary work and use the new machine for more flat stock projects.

[@faroerides7851]

Which laser would be efficient at making custom Metal credit cards? Multiple colored cards like gold, silver and so on, I need a machine like the one swipeskins are using.. do you know which it is and price? My budget is around 1-5k

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I’d recommend something like a fiber laser assuming they are aluminum or something similar. Check out this one: omtechlaser.com/products/30w-us7-30w2-us?sca_ref=3052260.jSLSP0ZUVT If you need color engraving then check out the MOPA ones on their site. Most of those come coated already and you’re just removing the coating with the engraving.

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

Haha, should have watched to the end before commenting. Yep the Finance Manager okayed the $289 3018, asking for $20,000 laser might be pushing a bit hard. Until I make profit on the 3018:)

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

The footprint on that machine is pretty small, but it's a great way to get started. You'll be looking for the next biggest machine soon enough. LOL! At least you'll get familiar with the process on that machine and it's cheap enough to learn on.

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking While cleaning the junk to make room for a workshop I found my old extrusions for 1500 wide by 600mm deep router/mill from 15 years ago. Back then ball screws and multiturn rod was hard to get, now much cheaper. Got some rusty 23 steppers on the old CNCed Seig X1 mill, in the junk. Hand Tool rescuing stuff including stepper driven optical table pulled out of old equipment, very heavy, dropped it on my foot yesterday, it now has some of my DNA on it. Turns out CNCing can be more dangerous than expected. Steel caps boots from now on.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

No more flip flops in the shop? Lol.

[@joecnc3341]

Thank You for the video. I built my own CNC Router...but am thinking about adding a laser. Love your tablesaw - what brand is it, Matt?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That’s awesome. You do your own programming on it? I have the 3hp SawStop PCS with the slider and router table extensions. It’s so good.

[@joecnc3341]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Simple stuff -I can create the G-code. ( I do that more on my cnc lathes, though). Mostly everything that I do is complex enough - that I need CAM. I like to use Vectric VCarve for the router table and the milling machine

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@joecnc3341 that’s incredible.

[@DavesCave]

You mentioned ‘HDU’. What is it and where do you get it? (For signs) Thanks

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I made this video a long time ago but it’s about HDU: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWLRmYOgmdZ7oZY As far as where to get it, you can check out Grimco or other online suppliers and have it shipped to you. Thanks for watching!

[@DavesCave]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking cool. Thanks for that I will watch that shortly. Just adding to my list now

[@thecrazy8888]

A lot of listings on etsy doesn't mean they are a hit. I'd like to see real numbers.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I do most of my selling privately and through my website, but a lot of people don't have the means or desire to sell through a website or through referrals starting off.

[@wholesomeengraving]

Very informative video. You said Co2 laser can cut metal? What kind of metal are you refering to? A CNC needs torque and slow speed, while a laser engraver need speed and low torque. A combo unit will never be as good as a dedicated machine.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You will need oxygen assist to cut steel or nitrogen to cut stainless or aluminum. Those aren't recommended practices, but it can be done. Co2 lasers are great for etching metals with a marking spray. Recently I got the xTool diode laser and it works surprisingly well at etching metal; it won't cut the metal (beyond a paper thin material), but it etches very well without marking spray.

[@fmaz1952]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking ah ok, makes more sense. I was looking at my Mira7 thinking: why can't you cut metal?

[@joseguevara184]

I built a DIY 50 x 70 cms. CNC router and I would like to add a laser, what´s a good choice from Amazon? Thanks.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Very cool. It depends on your budget, what types of projects you're wanting to do, and how much space you have. Can you tell me more?

[@jujucattys156]

All I ever use my laser past 15yre just got my first cnc router

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Which CNC machine did you get?

[@jujucattys156]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking just the 3018 but with in 4 days having up I pulled out all me old printer frames so on made. My own 6060

[@josephwisniewski3673]

I wanted a video mostly about what was wrong with that tiny little engraver.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Ok

[@josephwisniewski3673]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking Cool!

[@minortoterona2947]

Personally, its CNC, you can do with it almost everything what other machines can do and more, heck you can even upgrade darn thing to do even more(tho to be fair only limitation machine itself and your capacity and willingness to DIY it)(also to be fair laser cutters\engravers 3d printers etc etc are just CNCs in nutshell)

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Hard to upgrade a CNC with such a small capacity like mentioned in the video. Also, nobody calls a laser or 3d printer a CNC so common terminology was used in this video. Take a peek at any of the laser company websites and see if you find the word CNC (even though they are). :)

[@jstarr3676]

My current project is routed names with melted crayon and sealed with epoxy resin. Can i do this with a laser cutter?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

A CNC router would probably be the best way to do a project like that because if you use a laser, the relief is going to be dark and not look great. It can be done but not the best method. How deep do the channels need to be and what type of material are you engraving?

[@jstarr3676]

@VoeltnerWoodworking I'm going maybe between 3 and 5/16 deep, enough for the melted crayon and resin to sit and not have to sand too much..using 15/16 thick wood.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I would still go with CNC router probably

[@jstarr3676]

@VoeltnerWoodworking appreciate your time, got a new subscriber out of it now just gotta convince the wife haha

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That’s the hardest part. The rest is easy. Lol.

[@dominiquecave8]

Waiting for my first CO2 laser to arrive. I hope I'm #teamlaser. Also have a vinyl cutter coming so... maybe that does some of the software materials.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You’re going to have a blast!

[@ChosenHunter1]

Just freehand it... lol.. 😂

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

You may be better at that. If I did it, I wouldn't make any money unless they wanted it to look like kindergarten projects. LOL!

[@cnccarving]

i had two routers before purchased first laser a K40 for 385 i bought it for a specified job and after the first job made its price back , months later purchased a 24x40 sized machine then 2 years later a fiber engraver they making their price back quickly i mean buying from chinese same machines from domestic dealers costing a lot more and customer wont pay 5 times more just because you spent 5 times more

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

For me, it's about having good customer service and a network of folks that I can rely on when I need support. My 130 watt laser paid for itself in 4 months.

[@cnccarving]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking after 3 years of buying messaged back the maker and they sent me a mirror assembly not free, it was like 35 bux but they were nice people so much about """support""" but all vague words the machine i have would cost about 10K more from a """usa company""" i just cant see what extra they could give me for 10 K

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Not trying to change your mind. LOL!

[@WilmarToro]

But.... you can't do engravings with different deeps using s laser, with a CNC you can

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Agree

[@paulreader1777]

CO2 laser tubes don't last for ever and need to be treated with care. X-tool doesn't list the price of replacing the tube, presumably because they would prefer to sell you another machine.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Which xTool machine are you referring to?

[@paulreader1777]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking P2

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

@@paulreader1777 I’m sure they will publish a price for one, but since that unit is fairly new it should be under warranty. I’ve replaced my FSL Muse laser tube with a Cloudray tube before and it worked great, so Cloudray could be another source for 3rd party replacement parts. Just a thought.

[@happyfuntimepewpew]

next wave has a 7 watt laser attachment now.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

That would still be too slow and inconsistent for the types of projects I do, but for one-offs I'm sure it would work in a pinch.

[@happyfuntimepewpew]

i figured. next wave makes fantastic cnc machines, but dedicated is the way to go.

[@DaddyVet3D]

4:51 the IRS has entered the chat.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Tax paying LLC. Thanks. 👍🏼

[@johnnyspropshop]

#team both. Bought CNC, then CO2 laser, then another CNC and soon a fiber to add to the shop. Neither is instant success and it's still wood working, I don't get into the handmade or cheating stuff. Just another set of tools, lots to learn.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

For sure! There’s an art to each of them. It’s always funny when people say it’s cheating and then go use a table saw. Lol

[@ElCidPhysics90]

Why would you need a table saw for a cnc and not a laser? The cnc can cut the desired shape.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

As I mentioned in the video, most people buy stock (smaller, more size appropriate) materials for a laser, but CNC work generally uses different materials for more complex projects. If people are doing CNC work they are likely working with a wider variety of materials. Additionally my CNC is limited on capacity so if I’m cutting 3/4” plywood or hardwoods (which I don’t do on the laser), I use the table saw to break down the materials to fit the bed of the CNC. Hope this clears that up. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@LuisCasstle]

I don't know if i world call a table saw a fancy wood working tool, unless you're splurging on a fancy one. Other than that a table is an essential tool, as breaking down your own stock to whatever size you need is cheaper than buying precut wood.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

A track saw is also an option if space is limited.

[@aycompay]

Who’s your HDU supplier?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Check out Grimco

[@sierraecho884]

I am surprised you didn´t mention a 3D printer.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

While I have a 3d printer and appreciate their use in a shop, that wasn’t the focus of the video. The focus is more about making products for sale to the average customer using a CNC or laser and their distinctive differences. Mentioning the 3D printer would have muddied the narrative for this particular video, but perhaps I’ll do a consolidated comparison at some point, not from the view of the product marketing lens. Thanks for watching and the feedback.

[@DCDLaserCNC]

#teamlaser & #teamcnc

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Same!

[@Etrehumain123]

Im confused by the title related to the video content

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Then you didn't watch it

[@chuckgrumble5440]

you should get some carving tools and up your game

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

If I had a need to hand carve, but the laser and CNC work great for what I do.

[@michman2]

Here's 25 years' experience: Buying a laser, learning how to use it, buying materials, designing a product to sell.... that's the easy part. Getting people to buy YOUR coasters, buttons, key chains, etc., that's the HARD part. Sure, make a set of coasters and put them on ETSY. You'll be one of 700 others. Do a TON of research before jumping in. Oh.... lasers need to be vented.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

I do pretty good on my website instead of Etsy. Better margin and easier to control SEO.

[@walterhynson2898]

Warning If you are going to purchase a CO2 laser be sure to take a course on how to use it ,maintain it ,fix it,and the necessary safety requirements as well as the power and exhaust requirements as the larger machines can and will kill you in a heartbeat.(High Voltgage in the kilovolt range and water do not mix) and you the owner need to know what to look out for. And the exhause make sure you are not blowing it out the window anywhere near your childs swing set or sandbox or the pool. as these machines are meant for industrial use not for your basement or project room at your home. Make sure you have a seperate ground rod and ample power to run the machine and a electrical fire extinglisher 2 ,1 at the door of the room where the machine is and 1 at the machine as it is very easy to start a fire with a laser and hard to put it out and please do not use water .Most if not all of these people on UTUBE have a seperate meter and seperate power lines and breaker box to run their equiptment and most have built in fire protection systems .Please be very careful with these machines.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Apply common sense. That should go without saying. Lol.

[@onjofilms]

Separate ground and meter?? Lol.

[@cristianopersi7953]

I hate coffee cups. 😂

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

What about tea cups?

[@cristianopersi7953]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking same. 😅😅😅

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Good thing this was scotch. 😂

[@isaacrt4796]

I am almost certain wifes have that very clear 😂 No need for convincing.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Hahaha

[@Zen_Modeling]

Killer Information & Quality content delivery…💯 👉I don’t work with wood, only Aluminum & Brass. Machining both materials using a Sherline Mill & Lathe. I just read an email from Sherline offering a Laser etching attachment for the machines that immediately got my attention. ☯️

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Thanks so much! Lasers are fun for sure.

[@janjacobs375]

So why the title “I should NEVER has bought this machine”? You don’t say a word about what machine or why you shouldn’t have bought it. Is the title just “click-bait”?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

It's in there. Not clickbait. Check timestamp 13:00. The payoff is for people who are invested. Cheers.

[@patrickdonegan9559]

so did you buy that you should not have?

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

Did you skip that part? Lol. It was the small Piranha FX CNC/laser combo.

[@patrickdonegan9559]

@@VoeltnerWoodworking it was difficult to determine. okay - so the combo tools is not a smart buy - got it! i am thinking about getting a laser cutter - yet first i need a roof - and some walls.

[@VoeltnerWoodworking]

In my opinion the lasers that come as add ons aren’t strong enough to do what most people intend on doing. You’re better off with stand-alone units.