How to reduce inner groove distortion & tracking error

[@saintmichael1779]

You are looking fine after your vacation. A bit tanned, too! Several months ago, I got a cartridge to play mono records. The tip is conical. It makes so much difference in the playing of mono records, of which I have many.

[@anadialog]

Thanks! Yes, for mono its a necessary choice. I did a whole video on mono, if interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2fUY314hM53bpI

[@NickP333]

You made some great points. I’ve got an SL1200 too, and I really have no audible problems after setting it up using a proper protractor and a test LP. There are always going to be small compromises when it comes to turntables, but I love the challenge, and the end result can just sound so phenomenal. Thanks for the great vid!

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

Its part of it!

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

@@NickP333 OK.

[@NickP333]

@@pointsbeingmade7996 What’s part of what? I’m not trying to be rude either. I honestly don’t understand your comment.

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

@@NickP333 OK

[@NickP333]

@@pointsbeingmade7996 Now we’re getting somewhere, and it’s obvious you’ve just got no clue. That’s the end of dealing with you. OK, indeed.

[@robertspencer7921]

obviously I really enjoyed this analysis .... yes there are a few problems understanding the problems ... but at the end of the day if it sounds hot it's from vinyl .. cassette always is low on the low frequencies , reel to reel not really a real option , cds are excellent .. but digital... so obviously I love to listen to your anadialog ... from cognac , 🇫🇷

[@MarkSmith-nw4os]

My setup is a Denon DP 45 servo tracer with an AT140lc cartridge. I set the overhang with a Dennison gage. I tune tracking force with a Shure test record and oscilloscope.

[@anadialog]

Nice!

[@ROBERTODILANDRO]

Hello, I agree with everything you indicate. I think the best solution (in addition to a correct cartridge alignment) is the quality of the needle, be it shibata, microlinea, fritzgyger, fineline ... etc. Everything else will add problems to the monitoring. Unfortunately the quality of the vinyls is not always good, I would say that most are defective, except those that are cut at medium speed that solve practically all the problem of wheezing, such as MSFL editions and other high quality presses. Although a decent sound can be achieved with mastering suited to the limits of the format. Off-centering is a very common problem, even with new registrations. There is a very simple way to correct it. All you need is a scissors or knife and gradually enlarge the hole, then the LP is placed on the turntable, we can center it by eye ... Then just make a small mark on the label to remember the position with respect to the axis .

[@anadialog]

Or buy a Nakamichi TX1000 self-centering turntable...amazing piece of gear!

[@ROBERTODILANDRO]

@@anadialog 🤣Con l'occhio e un coltello lo risolvo in 2 minuti!

[@anadialog]

Grandeee!

[@brucermarino]

Concerning off center spindle holes - other possibilities... I believe the Nakamichi TX-1000 and the Dragon Computing turntables had dynamic correction for off center pressings. I think Micro Seiki may have had one too. A more primitive, but probably still effective solution, would be to establish the degree of off-centeredness by and measurement and then elongate the hole in the appropriate direction with a cylindrical file. After that one would insert a temporary spindle substitute and apply some liquid plastic to essentially reposition the hole. A simpler, if less permanent, option would be to elongate the hole, as above, and use a record clamp to keep it properly centered. Thank you, again, my friend, for these wonderful videos!

[@anadialog]

Thank you! All great solutions!

[@Thievius333]

IGD is the bane of my existence. I'm upgrading to a microlinear stylus in hopes of reducing it.

[@richardchildshunt7955]

How did it go?

[@apw2607]

I have an easy fix for this ! After chasing this issue for years I realize for me it was my cartridge and stylus shape that was the issue. So I switched over to a Audio-Technica AT-VM95SH Shibata And said goodbye to IGD on my SL-1210GR for good !

[@anadialog]

Yup! I suggested that in the video as well.

[@leon9021]

There are some records that are still too challenging, if you ever find them I can recommend the VM95ML as its an even better stylus. 1/3 the width of a Shibata meaning its even better at flawlessly following tight groove passages.

[@bryede]

Yep, Microlines and Shibatas are the way to go. 3x7 or 4x7 ellipticals just don't fit inner grooves very well and their performance will degrade quickly as the stylus wears.

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

Shibata rules!

[@simonmarsden66]

I was suffering from a bad IGD and after meticulous setting up it was still there. I changed the stylus for a Jico SAS and the problem went away, in fact the upgrade was substantial, I recommend it

[@anadialog]

Cool! Thanks for sharing that!

[@StLouisRod1]

Great video as usual, thanks! I'm surprised you didn't mention vertical tracking force as a factor in IGD. I use the Hi Fi News Test LP as well, and while putting VTF at the high end of the cart specs helps a bit, it doesn't have near the impact as anti-skate does. I use Audacity to record those test tones and zoom into the 300hz waveform as it plays, while adjusting the anti-skate. If it's too low, the right channel waveform distorts a bit. Too high and the left channel goes berserk. However, that behavior was the same on my AT150MLX microline stylus as well as my Denon DL-300 "special" elliptical (.1mm x .2mm). So in my experience linear cut styli aren't perfect in that regard. That said, I tried a VERY used ATSA33 (shibata?) and it tracked all 4 of the Hi Fi News torture tracks very well ! That was the first cart I tried that I could get to pass the 4th (hardest) torture track. But that's a far more expensive cartridge than the other two i mentioned. I would be very curious to see the waveform recordings of your turntable on each of the 4 torture tracks :).

[@anadialog]

Thanks! There are so many aspects related to this topic that I decided to cut some out. Thanks for sharing your experience, it's always helpful to have further advice from true and direct experience.

[@MikeLeePhoto]

Welcome back mate! Hope u had a good vacation. !

[@anadialog]

Yes, very short though! Thanks!

[@mykolamisyura8107]

Hi, thanks a lot for your videos! Just about a week ago I’ve opened to myself a Stevenson Alignment Protractor. Dude, it has changed everything! You can read about it on the vinylengine but in two words, you put a “null” point of the needle closer to the spindle as there is much bigger angle error and reduce it as much as possible. Theoretically, this way of alignment increases an outer distortion a little. But as it is much lower than inner, it’s difficult to notice a difference. Personally I admitted a way much lower distortion on the inner groove and no distortion increasing on the outer groove, using this method. Highly recommend to try it. It is mentioned on the vinylengine that Rega’s original protractor uses Stevenson’s method (or very close to it’s “null” point).

[@mykolamisyura8107]

Here is a link with descriptions: www.vinylengine.com/protractor-user-guide.shtml

[@anadialog]

Thanks! Yes, the Stevenson is one of the most famous alignment methods. I am more of a Baerwald guy!

[@acidhouse3308]

Hi, one of the reasons i`m personally not very keen on vinyl albums is because some of the pressings suffer from Inner Groove Distortion. As the grooves compress towards the spindle the sound can sometimes loose some dynamics or loudness. I own a lot of albums that sound fine so it must come down to the way the vinyl is cut. One of the reasons i buy more 12" singles than vinyl albums is because i often find that 12" singles sound louder and more dynamic due to the fact there are less tracks so the grooves are being less compressed. I know most audiphiles aren`t really keen on 12" singles but i prefer collecting them to collecting albums. This video reminds me i`ve got to get an alignment protrator for my Technics 1200GR. Thanks for another excellent video. Cheers from England.

[@michaelb9664]

Acid House I’m also a fan of the 12” 45 RPM single. There can be distinct improvements in sound quality when comparing to the same music on a 33 LP.

[@anadialog]

Cool! Thanks!

[@karellen00]

Do you mean the small 7" disks? 12" is the size of the large "full" disks.

[@michaelb9664]

Marco Toselli 12” 45 RPM singles. 12” as in exactly the same size as an LP.

[@karellen00]

@@michaelb9664 I have never seen such a single, but I have a couple of albums that are on two 45 rpm 12" disks. I like that format, it's smart that since you are using two disks per album and you have room to spare you can also increase the speed and sound quality!

[@yamajammer76]

I have a brand new Thorens TD 103 A auto running an Ortofon 2M blue and about a year old Thorens TD 190-2 auto with an Ortofon OM 20 in another room and both track amazingly well. Unless the record is truly a bad cut or was damaged on a poorly set-up table or a cheap record player they have zero audible IGD. They both use the Dual style dynamically balanced ultra light tone arm. Adjustment matters, but a very well engineered tone arm goes a long way reducing this distortion.

[@QoraxAudio]

12:50 That Shibata and Microline are the best is debatable... I would say that fineline and Gyger are better in most applications. Mainly because setting the correct VTA for Shibata and Microline/microridge is often not good enough and you have to set the SRA very accurately, otherwise they don't perform optimally. With fineline and Gyger, setting the VTA is much less critical, increasing the probability that you get the most out for your stylus when you don't have a microscope to set your SRA. 15:06 The issue with tonearm resonance isn't exclusive to that 5 to 15Hz range. 5 to 15Hz is outside the audible spectrum, but because of intermodulation distortion, those inaudible frequencies cause a "wow/flitter like" distortion on certain higher frequencies that *are* audible. Even without tracking issues that are related to the tonearm resonance. 17:00 That a longer tonearm itself reduces tracking angle error is a common misconception; overhang is what makes all the difference. The main reason to go for a longer arm is to create more distance between the stylus and the tonearm base where vibrations enter the tonearm. However, a longer tonearm makes it less stiff; it reduces the rigidity, which generally affects tonearm resonance in a negative way. If the tonearm tube is longer, but the same thickness, it also has a higher effective mass. The effective mass can be positive or negative, depending on your cartridge compliance (positive for low/negative for high compliance cartridges). 19:00 Also that an S or J shaped tonearm reduces tracking error compared to a straight tonearm is a misconception, when a cartridge is properly aligned. An S or J shaped tonearm places the headshell at an angle so that it's perpendicular to the grooves, but without that angle (straight arm), the user can mount the cartridge into the headshell at an angle. Again; overhang is what makes all the difference. The main benefit of an S shaped tonearm is that the forces at the stylus tip are in line with the pivot point of the tonearm. Another benefit is is that the S shaped tube is more stiff and rigid than a straight tonearm tube. Higher tonearm rigidity is generally better when it comes to tonearm resonance. 21:00 The ideal is a friction free tangential tonearm indeed. I don't know how good the high-end variants are, but I've seen cheaper types like those plastic tangential ones Technics made, such as the SL-10. Those are actually worse than conventional tonearms and can possibly damage/excessively wear out your records.

[@anadialog]

Ok, finally got a chance to answer! 1) What is best is always debatable, so ok. 2) The lower frequencies are the problem. In any case, the final goal is to keep it with 8-10Hz to have a great performance. 3) Why would you say that? It is not at all a misconception. Offset is the key, and longer arms rediuce that need. It's not my idea, is a well rooted idea. You can disagre with it but it is surely NOT a misconception. Both arms have pros and cons, that's all. A completely short, straight tonearm is always going to be worse than a long straight one. The correcrt cart angle, more than the overhang, helps a lot. 4) Again, not a misconception. Better offset, better groove tracking because of the perpendicularity of the stylus, which can be achieved, at least in part, with a good cart angle and a decent lenght. Again, another school if you like, but not a misconception. 5) Indeed!

[@QoraxAudio]

@@anadialog "A completely short, straight tonearm is always going to be worse than a long straight one." I still don't see the point of that, assuming that both tonearm lengths result in the same overhang. If shorter length would mean a shorter (i.e. too short) overhang, then yes, I fully agree. But that would mean the user needs to change to an armboard that provides the correct overhang. The only inherent difference between different lengths is the "arc" the tonearm travels over the record, which is less bent/less sharp with a longer tonearm. However this arc difference between 9" and 12" is insignificantly small; a much longer tonearm is needed to make any significant difference, without that, it's merely an academical/theoretical point of debate. It's mostly an 80s marketing story coming from brands that made aftermarket tonearms and needed an argument to substantiate why their tonearms would be intrinsically better than stock tonearms (even on very high-end turntables, those stock tonearms were usually 9"). About S-shape vs straight tonearms: There are plenty of real life examples that shows straight tonearms to be just as fine at tracking as their S-shaped counterparts. One of the most notable examples is the SME V tonearm, which is considered to be one of the pinnacles of tonearm technology. Another famous example of a straight high-end tonearm is the Continuum Cobra tonearm, which also places the cartridge on an angle instead of having the arm at an angle. As a third example: SAT tonearms are considered to be among the best as well. Most of those are straight too and only place the cartridge at an angle.

[@anadialog]

Exactly, each side of the philosophy has excellent examples. Moreover, I don't know why you are fixated on overhang, which is something tied more on the cart allignment. If you are talking about the overhang past the spindle then again that is something tied to length and to a correct allignment, while the key factor here is the offset in respect to the pivot, that is what gives the opportunity to the cart to be in the correct position and track the most perpependicular way the record grooves and that cannot be achieved with allignment.

[@QoraxAudio]

@@anadialog I almost forgot about the offset: The point of offset is that there are two places on the record where the tracking angle is 0 instead of one. This implicates that the maximum error is lower, compared to one point of 0 tracking angle. The curve of how the tracking angle changes during play is determined by the alignment. If you, for example, align the cartridge using the stevenson, bearwald or lofgren type protractor, it will be stevenson, bearwald or lofgren alignment, no matter the shape of the tonearm. The difference is that the cartridge needs to be skewed at an angle more so with a straight tonearm, compared to a J or S shaped tonearm. An S or J shaped tonearm allows you to mount a cartridge onto the headshell without an angle, this is why integrated headshells don't work for straight tonearms, like the Ortofon Concorde cartridges. They need the correct offset and overhang to be fixed in the tonearm design. The angled placement of cartridges at a straight tonearm might place a force on the tonearm, potentially pushing it sideways reducing the tracking ability and increasing channel imbalance. That sideways force can be compensated by setting the proper anti-skating force (that's why straight tonearms generally need more AS force than S-shaped tonearms). Edit: it basically boils down to what the offset angle of the cantilever/stylus tip is and if it's correct, whether you achieve that by tonearm design, angled headshell or by skewing the cartridge in the headshell is solely a matter of preference.

[@tomahawkhead]

Before I found the right protractor for my Technics sl 1200, and finaly better alligned the cartridge , I had EVERY groove distortion. Only now can I really hear the effects of inner groove distortion. I have very little, and I´m sure it is down to antiskating the most. Tuning that is a thing you can only master by ear. I am going to look for that test record. Great info here as always. Cheers!

[@anadialog]

Thanks and thanks for sharing that!

[@TheHammerofDissidence]

IGD is currently my number 1 enemy. In fact, it's the reason I'm about to sell my Rega Planar 3. 90% of my vinyl collection is extreme metal, so my records are packed with busy grooves, most of which have high frequencies near the inner grooves. For my purposes, I really need a shibata/microline stylus. The Rega I own does not allow for precise VTA adjustment nor is it capable of azimuth adjustment, so properly aligning a fine stylus is near impossible (I have tried). I'm looking at Technics for my next table. P.s. The grown out beard looks badass on you. Keep it up.

[@apw2607]

david davidson yes, I switch to a Audio-Technica AT-VM95SH Shibata, and all IGD went away.

[@TheHammerofDissidence]

@@apw2607 I have a At-vm95ml that I'm going to slap on a Technics and see how that goes.

[@anadialog]

Interesting, thanks for sharing and for your words! ;-) It's sad to see such a good and respectful brand like Rega not meeting one's expectations.

[@1byte4]

Another way to verify your alignment is by playing the test tone on the record and measure the output voltage for each side (without speakers) with a multimeter. The output voltages should match. This eliminated sound variants due to your room and is less subjective.

[@johnsweda2999]

you can reposition the centre hole it means drilling out after measuring where the hole should be to the size of a 45 adaptor, insert and glue it in position or leaving it and just using an adaptor. And the biggest problem is is pivot point it needs to be to record surface reduces oscillation ingroove distortion an jitter. You can achieve this by adding half an inch of balsa wood block slope it at 5 degrees or 7 degrees to return the rake angle back. All depends on your arm if it can go low enough and shape And use green Emery can get it from Linn to polish your stylus we'll make it last longer Records could be made bigger 13" of course they don't do this because automatic turntables but if it was made as an audiophile record no reason why not Straight Arms headshell is nothing wrong with straight Arms you just rotate the cartridge

[@anadialog]

Too much work for a not accurate result, unless its a rare edition, then I would do that or, as I said in a different comment, just buy a Nakamichi TX1000! That will solve any misalignment. Yes, I did mention the fact that you must rotate the cart with straight arms. Offset will always be less than a curved arm. That is why, as I said, a long (10-12") straight arm is a good idea.

[@QoraxAudio]

@@anadialog How about a Nakamichi Dragon CT? (not the cassette deck, but the Dragon turntable of course 😜)

[@maximelogier1276]

Ooh great video. You finally insure me that i am not crazy. I have a record that i love, the music is great but when it comes to the final songs of each side, the high frequencies are really bad. I am so disappointed with it. But thanks to thks video, i know that the problem comes from the record

[@anadialog]

Great!

[@samhalsey5051]

Thank you! Great video! I haven’t done anything to my Technics yet. Just followed the old manual when I got it used. Wishful thinking that the previous owner had everything in good order. I know I should check everything but I sort of don’t trust myself because of zero experience... What would yo say is the best place to start? Check tonearm alignment? Check styles condition? Also I have a PRO13E cartridge, I know it’s discontinued. But was it good in your high standard opinion?

[@anadialog]

Thanks! Well, I would say thet you must absolutely check tracking force if you haven't (adopting that recommended by the cart manufacturer) and reinstall your cart, possibly with the Baerwald protractor (free on hifiengine). Check my setup video. I made only one but it's all in there! kzbin.info/www/bejne/faK6mWdng7lkecU The cart is great to start with or ifnyou have a budget setup. As I always sai IMO you need a very good cart to get very good sound, more that a high-end turntable.

[@samhalsey5051]

ANA[DIA]LOG thanks! On it!

[@karellen00]

I never had particular problems with my turntable, despite having a rather short tonearm (8.5"), and now I know the reason, all the disks I have don't use the innermost 2-3 cm!

[@anadialog]

Exactly!

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

Well spotted!

[@pinopalladaion6119]

Te lo scrivo in italiano perche in inglese non sono capace; i tuoi video sono eccezionali perche a differenza di altri non dai delle regole da guru, ma hai un approccio scientifico ai problemi e dai le nozioni per poter capire, poi ognuno trarrà le conclusioni che vuole. complimenti! :)

[@anadialog]

Grazie Pino! Che bel complimento!! Sono questi commenti che mi danno la forza di continuare...davvero!

[@pinopalladaion6119]

@@anadialog grazie a te per tutto il lavoro che fai

[@leonardolicari137]

Magari ci regali lo stesso video in lingua italiana. Ho cercato di comprendere più possibile. Video veramente Top. Complimentissimi!!!

[@tantalo45]

Hello, Thanks for the Channel. I get confused when it comes to play records: I have an Uturn Orbit turntable with an Ortofon 2m red stylus, some records sounds Great, which tells me the turntable is properly setup, but others sound distorted, some of them brand new records, also all the 12 inch 45 rpm records I have, shows some distortion in the sound, Metallica Master of puppets, one of them. Why do you think some records sound fantastic and others not so good in the same turntable? Thanks again.

[@anadialog]

Sorry for the late reply. That is an excellent question! The short answer is it depends. You are probably facing some distortion because the pressing wasn't perfect and/or the cart isn't perfectly set and some grooves reveal that more than others...

[@enrigimeno]

es un video genial!! conceptos super claros e importantes. no se puede explicar mejor. explicas muchos detalles que no habia escuchado antes y pienso que son muy importantes. muchas gracias

[@jimmyjoejeeter2366]

What an Excellent video! I was wondering what would cause my stylus to skip, after the record is finish play when it is coming back to the post? It has automatic return? Does something need to be adjusted or oiled? My turntable is a vintage Kenwood KD 2000 from the 1970,s Any help would be cool!

[@anadialog]

You mean in the outrun?

[@hugobloemers4425]

Nakamichi made a turn table that could centre the record to compensate for off centre spindle holes. The weak side of that system is that it references to the rim of the record. I have at least one record that has a centred hole in reference to the groves (no visible side to side movement of the tone arm) but appears off centre if you look at the rim (or edge) of the record whilst it is turning. In such case you would make it worse with this system. But over all it is a marvel of engineering as expected with Nakamichi before it became a zombie brand. Any way, thanks for the great summary, I think it is pretty comprehensive in terms of the issues seen. PS, regarding anti skating, that is a whole can of worms because many turn tables are not correct over the entire width of the groves.

[@anadialog]

Yes! I mentioned it in a few comments, the Nakamichi TX1000! P.S. that is why a test disk is a good idea and will reveal that.

[@joemartin6439]

My Dual 1229 setup right. Takes time. My tools are few and need a bit more up grades. I have a mirror plastic protector and a digit stylus gauge. What are better gauges to setup my 1229? This will l limit inner grove great video!!!

[@anadialog]

Just use one of those snall precision digital scales for jewelers, they are great and cheap. Great turntable there....just released a review of a 1019: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6OkhmaPa8ifjqs

[@MrDunk66]

The last Pink Floyd album (2 LPs, forgot the name) has no tracks cut on the inner part of the records - no IGD issues I guess, but needs 2 records!

[@anadialog]

Exactly!

[@karellen00]

If you go the 2 LP route you can also let more space between the grooves, so that they can be a little bit deeper and so you also have more volume (that translates to a better signal to noise ratio). Also some albums on two disks are 45 rpm, with the obvious sound benefit.

[@ZeusTheTornado]

Great video! I think a video on true mono cartridges would be very interesting as well

[@anadialog]

I did an entire video on mono: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2fUY314hM53bpI One specific on carts is a good idea!

[@patryk4323]

@@anadialogi notice that in mono Records, play on mono cartrige is less IGD, why is that?

[@anadialog]

Interesting, probably because of the structure of the groove...

[@Andersljungberg]

RCA had albums where you had several records in single size. and the marketing at that time assumed that the distortion was lower. but it's clear if you have a Tonarm specifically for single size discs. so maybe it's get that effect. then the discs were at 45rpm

[@hugoaguilar3155]

Great video. Very clear. Thanks!

[@anadialog]

Thank you Hugo!

[@attherockshow8902]

Hi. Interesting topic. Just wondering have you had much experience with tonearms in the 10" + range ? I noticed the Technics SL-1200G comes in at just over 9" in effective length. Just asking because I'm currently trying to decide between a table with a 9" or a 10" myself. Unfortunately in these pandemic times everything is taking longer. I've waited 10 weeks already for an order on a 9" but since it took so long I started thinking more about the 10". Only thing is that would mean probably another 10 weeks+ of waiting. Anyhow it would be nice to know just how much of an audible difference that makes... Going from 9" to 10" with the same cart and most other things being equal. Can't really audition tables anymore and I figure when you get into more expensive ones it might be harder to do as well since they are usually special orders and dealers wouldn't always have what you want to compare. It would be nice if some of the reviewers out there would use these test discs as part of their reviews instead of them being so subjective. Of course then maybe they wouldn't be sent anything for review 🤣. Thanks for the post. Always good food for thought.

[@anadialog]

Actually, no, just some auditions at shows but not at home. I have always had around 9" arms but considering these aspects and possibly being very careful with the cart match I do think it is worth a try.

[@attherockshow8902]

@@anadialog Thanks for the reply. I'd love to go with the 10" version. It's actually the Pro-ject Xtension 9 vs Pro-ject Xtension 10 (which has some great reviews). I just don't know if I can wait another 10 weeks.

[@anadialog]

If you can still play music, then wait! ;-)

[@jerryandlisa27]

Good Day , i have a question . My technics sl1200g when i lift the tonearm im getting a static ahock from the lifter and a hum it goes away as soon as i release it what can it be ? Please help

[@anadialog]

I'm afraid there is a loose wire inside the tonearm...

[@RetroPanic]

Thx , very interesting Video. Have you Any expirience With Revox b790 tangential ? In your Video tangential should be a Good Solution.

[@anadialog]

No, but that is recognized to be a good model although you must be sure that everything is working properly like all vintage gear.

[@RetroPanic]

ANA[DIA]LOG have 2 of them, Runs Great

[@jonathanmathieu4227]

Hi! I've just used the Hi-Fi news analogue test lp and Bias setting start sounding distorted on track 7, and even after adjusting anti-skating, it keeps going on. Is there a chance it could be because my stylus is fairly new? or could it be a problem with my tonearm? (I'm using a Technics SL1200, with a Ortofon 2M black stylus)

[@anadialog]

Try playing with the antiskate. Otherwise it may be misaligned.

[@jonathanmathieu4227]

@@anadialog antiskate was on. however, my bad, I'm using a Technics SL1210 MK2, and I believe that might be the issue. do you confirm? Thanks for your answer

[@mrtea7305]

@@jonathanmathieu4227 I think that's an interesting question. I also have a 1210 MKII and I have anti skating etc aligned but still have some IGD. I am wondering anyway what audible improvements were made to the new SL 1200 and whether it is worth upgrading.

[@JMG72ARG]

My player is a Sansui tangential from 1981, has been working great all these years, but has some sporadic speed fluctuations from time to time that I can't figure out the cause of.

[@ThePajdzik]

Great and very informative as always.

[@ejonesss]

1. is inner groove distortion the reason that hidden track based software fails? i guess the hidden track where the zx80 software lives because i saw a youtube video where some turntables have to be modified to disable the automatic functions so you can put the needle onto the hidden track without causing the turntable to shut off or automatically return the tone arm. some artists as a gimmick may put software on the hidden track and the idea is to record onto a mono tape recorder like those used for board meetings and then the tape is played into a zx80 computer that can display a light show in sync to the content or something. 2. is inner groove or inner track distortion effect digital data like on a spinning hard drive? is the data compressed more near the spindle of the hard drive platters so that area wears out faster and needs more error correction? same goes for a floppy drive?

[@42pyroboy]

Is that shirt linen? It looks really light and comfy. Could you share where you picked it up from?

[@anadialog]

😆 it's cotton, made here in Italy. Nothing fancy! I got it from a chain called Oviesse.

[@42pyroboy]

@@anadialog Thanks man

[@analoguecity3454]

If your equipment is not tracking properly it not only could cause noise problems, but after repeated plays (if nothing is done to correct it), it can damage (wear) your records!

[@anadialog]

Indeed!

[@fedrichorlandineumann3062]

Ciao ho guardato Vinilicamente e ho scoperto con mio stupore che parli italiano ,Fantastico!!!!ti chiedero consigli sui prodotti Schiit,da noi sono introvabili!!!

[@anadialog]

Ebbene si! Sono dello stivale! ;-)

[@fedrichorlandineumann3062]

@@anadialog a presto !!!!

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

Can a uneven TT make the needle skip? Bought a used sl1200 mk2 and it skips and gets stuck skipping in every track on every record. Got a new TT it was drivning me nuts..

[@NickP333]

I just saw your comment/question here. Yes, an uneven turntable can absolutely make a stylus skip. SL1200’s are excellent turntables and are built like tanks. As soon as you know how to properly set one up, you’ll get much more enjoyment out of it, and your stylus/needle won’t skip.

[@Fontsman-14]

Another big problem is a de-centred record. No amount of cartridge alignment can reduced this issue. I can never understand how this happens if quality control is strictly enforced.

[@calvinnapier9977]

I've done for the most part all the things you said but on some vinyl I still hear the distortion. I'm about to sell my gear and be done with the hassle! I might have 4 records that I can listen to without distortion 🥺

[@anadialog]

Clearly it's a true problem of your gear. Not a tweak. Eliminate one by one.

[@simonmarsden66]

Do you have a copy of the 1812 overture cut from the inside out?

[@anadialog]

I don't!

[@simonmarsden66]

@@anadialog I can't find it on the internet but I remember reading about it, due to the track starting quietly and finishing very loud, it was experimented to play from the inside to the outside

[@simonmarsden66]

I got it mixed up, it was Ravels Bolero and it is on the Tacet label

[@anadialog]

Makes sense! Got to change the antiskating though! ;-)

[@pointsbeingmade7996]

I had Around the world on 7” after enduring the horrible album 12” LP of the Trk where it was last on side A. An example happy when i found the 7 ”

[@sorinpop389]

Hi, where you talk about cartridge alignment (around 8:25), you mention that you see in a lot of others' videos that they move the protractor when placing the stylus from one null point to another. I was always confused about this, to be honest. Indeed, in some videos they say (like you) that you should not move the protractor, and in others you can see that they move it...With my protractor, I can only really do it if I move it a bit, I NEED TO do that, otherwise it won't work. It would be good if someone could perhaps clarify this. Here is what I think currently: I think it all depends on the particular TYPE of protractor. For example, in the protractor you use in your earlier video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/faK6mWdng7lkecU (around minute 11), we can see that the two null points are placed ON AN ARC (followed by the stylus on the record surface). And I think that's why you can (and should) use that protractor without moving/turning it when you switch the stylus between the two null points. However, I use a more simple (and widespread) protractor where the two null points are placed simply next to each other on the SAME RADIUS LINE (something like this one: ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hb868d72cbef144c5aeb4497f8b5e57c4U.jpg, and the one you are showing in this video seems also to be like that -> the two points are on the same radius line). I think that in this case it is impossible to switch between them without having to turn a bit the platter (the protractor) - which means that that arc on which the stylus travels during playback will not intersect the same radius line when it goes through the two null points. Can we agree on that? Or is there something that I am missing? (perhaps a video which would delve more in-depth into the whole cartridge alignment methodology, with different kinds of protractors, in a very detailed and practical way, would be welcome) Thanks for your work and best regards, Ciao

[@anadialog]

I can understand your confusion but no, you should move the cart ahead (overhang) and with the correct angle untill both null points are aligned WITHOUT moving the protractor. This is the best way to obtain the best tracking performance. If your tonearm head (fixed) or headshell does NOT allow overhang, meaning moving back and forth the cartrdige, then you must move the protractor but the results are going to be worse.

[@sorinpop389]

@@anadialog To better illustrate what I mean, please take a look at the first illustration on page 3 of the pdf doc at www.kuzma.si/media/uploads/files/KAA%202016%20LECTURE%202017(1).pdf, which shows how such an arc described by the stylus looks like. There you can see that the inner and the outer null point intersect a different radius line. Ergo, assuming you have aligned the cartridge (so it's good) and you place a protractor on the platter (one of those which has the two points on the same radius line), and describe the arc made by the stylus, in such a way that it touches one of the null points, then it will never touch the other null point if you keep the protractor unmoved (because then the protractor only represents one of the two radius lines that the arc intersects). I hope it's perhaps clearer now, looking at that picture. Also, in the same pdf see pages 23-24, where a detailed method of aligning is described when using such a protractor (once again, which has the two null points printed on the same radius line). In the first line of page 24 we see this: "...and rotate protractor until the cantilever...". "And rotate protractor". "rotate protractor". Rotate. Protractor. Doesn't this mean that they move, they rotate the protractor? Which according to you is something that should never be done? (by the way, and I think a Kuzma document is probably a good, reliable reference)

[@sorinpop389]

@@anadialog So I'd still maintain that whether you should move the protractor or not depends on the type of protractor. And by type of protractor I don't mean here Baerwald, or Loefgren, etc. I mean that apparently there are two types of protractors (from this point of view): 1. ARC protractors, which have printed on them exactly, the whole arc that the stylus should follow. Optionally also with the two null points designated on that arc. They usually are bigger. Like the one we see in your earlier video kzbin.info/www/bejne/faK6mWdng7lkecU . What you say - that you should not move the protractor - I think is only valid for these kinds of protractors. 2. Simple two-point protractors, where we don't have the arc printed, only two null points, and even those ones are printed not as they would appear on a real arc, but next "to each other", on the same radius (so not as they look in "real life", on an arc described by the stylus). That's why these protractors are much smaller, narrower, they usually look like a bend, a straight "tongue". The one you show in this video doesn't have that shape, but it seems to me that the null points are printed on it like on these kind of protractors (on the same radius line). Now, I believe that what you say - that you should not move the protractor - is not valid for this kind of protractor.

[@anadialog]

Yes, you are correct! I was fixated on the Baerwald for too long! The protractor with aligned points require the platter to be moved! I'll correct that.

[@JustABowlOfCherries]

This is the main problem with analog playback. Digital is potentially superior, but there are more options in analog music.

[@stiannobelisto573]

What about using a bubble level app and placing mobile on the turntable?

[@anadialog]

It's based on the inner gyroscope, it's a decent solution but not very accurate.

[@MrAustrokiwi]

I have no idea is this has been researched but here is a hypothesis ( that goes way back to my Psychology of perception lectures decades ago). By way of some relevant background,you young fellas will not be aware of. When the Moog Synthesizer came out one of the strong and correct complaints was the sounds it produced were too pure. Now on to my experience and hypothesis. If I play an album on CD ( using a Magnat MCD1050) I can sit comfortably read a book, browse on my kindle and generally treat the music like it was elevator music. Playing exactly the same album on my TT, and the music captures me... there is no way I can read or browse the internet. My hypothesis, the CD is producing near perfect reproduction. That "perfect reproduction is , for our perceptual systems, boring and highly ignorable. The way our perceptual system works predictable consistent is boring( hence my comment about the Moog). My hypothesis is a TT produces a much more attention grabbing sound because it is less perfect than digital sources. So be careful fixing all those "faults" it is possible that you will destroy the experience if you make your TT system too perfect.

[@anadialog]

Interesting perspective!

[@pebey]

I don't know what you mean when you talk about "width compression" - grooves being more squished together near the center. Never heard of such a thing, which surely would only happen if engineers willfully changed the pitch during cutting, and as far as I know they don't do that as a normal practice. Ideally they should estimate what the base pitch should be depending on side lengths and dynamics, allowing for variable pitch setups and all that - it's not like they go "oops, running out of space here, better crank it down". Just by eyeballing discs, I see no evidence that this happens. A simpler solution for off-center holes, no need for expensive auto-centering turntables or (egads!) drilling them out, is to get a turntable with a removable spindle. (I used to have a Dual 1219 like that. I guess such a thing is uncommon now, I modified my current table to do it though it takes a bit of machine-shop finesse to get it right.) You put the disc on the spindle-less table, set it playing, stick a pencil or something in the hole which you can maneuver like a joystick until there's no sway in the tonearm, and you're good to go. With practice it's easier to do than you might think.

[@anadialog]

When I say width compression I am referring to something well known in record cutting. The swiggles, the grooves near the center of the record due to the lack of space and distortion due to the angle that these grooves required to be read, are smaller in every sense because you cannot cut them with the same DYNAMICS of the first grooves and dynamics are exactly the width of the swiggles.

[@pebey]

So you are saying it's desirable to cut grooves with less dynamics (or less loudness if you will) near the end of a side, if avoiding potential distortion is your goal - so those grooves will be narrower and shallower. Sure, but that's not mandated - you can cut discs as dynamic as you want, even so loud that no cartridge can track it perfectly (though you wouldn't want to). In practice, I note that a lot of records are just as loud or dynamic all through the side, start to finish. Which I'd say is as it should be. Inner groove distortion is a separate issue. There are choices the cutter can make to minimize it, but messing with dynamics shouldn't be one of them.

[@anadialog]

Sure, but that is the way it is.

[@chadkoehler8021]

It’s hard for me to understand how a 45 would have better sound quality than a 33…I understand you’re extending the notes/frequencies out across a longer amount of groove but the increased speed seems like it would cause more noise/distortion.

[@anadialog]

Why should it? It is a slight increase if it was 150rpm then you would have more negative effects than positive ones. It's just like tape.

[@donwest5387]

minuscule?

[@davidgamble5756]

Microline solves the problem

[@Elizabethandfamily]

Great video but your explanation is confusing it's called diameter loss.

[@SvexTheDragon]

Linear tracking turntables anyone?

[@jochvomberg5541]

Love my Yamaha PX 3

[@leon9021]

Points of contention. Speeds ) linear speed changes indeed, although this doesnt necessarily cause compression. An engineer can choose to cut with as much groove width as they want across the entire record and doesnt necessarily result in distortions like sibilance, its the stylus mistracking a groove that causes it mostly. Off Center ) is mostly right again, but there are tables that can automatically adjust the platters position to recenter the spindle hole, like the Nakamichi Dragon: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIbKgIicqbeGoM0 Leveling ) is good, but not crucial for tracking really. The main benefit to it is to not throw off other installations like Anti Skate. Anti Skate ) The only issue with using test discs is that some are using signal tracks that are way louder than most any music. Adjusting for that may not be optimal, but Anti Skating can never be perfect anyway, it changes between every record and across the entire record itself. Styli ) Micro Line and SAS styli are the best indeed, Micro Ridge, Van Den Hull and Paratrace being a second tier. But Shibata is not as good, it is actually more than twice as fat as a MicroLine. This is probably the most important point I would say and I wish the whole industry would just switch to at least using Shibatas, if it did we wouldnt have so many groove worn records in the bins today. Shibata 6 x 50 um "small" design Micro Line 2.5 x 75 um Micro Ridge 3.8 x 75 um VanDenHull 4 x 70 um FritzGeiger 5 x 70 um SAS 2.5 x 75 um Paratrace 4 x 70 um Linear vs Pivot ) These can get expensive indeed, but I also think the benefit isnt as great as you might expect. With proper alignment on a pivot arm, the tracing distortion between the null points arc will not be more than a few %. The real issue is with the speed as discussed at the start and this still affects linear tracking arms. I agree 45s are not the best solution and I dont think they sound better just because they play faster. If you have a deck and stylus that tracks a 33 near perfect then there is no benefit to 45 and only downsides. But it seems we will have to live with a future of 45RPM reissues.

[@anadialog]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: Speed) a lower speed implies less engrooved vinyl versus the outer part that during that same amount of time will have much more vinyl engrooved. That is why 45RP;M sound better, more vinyl with more data spread across versus a compression in the inner grooves. Off center) Yes, we have mentioned the TX1000 as an example in otehr commnets. In any case, very expensive and difficult to find, plus it referes to the rim so in some cases it is not accurate (as Hugo pointed out in a comment). Leveling) As you said, it is a combination of effects and a domino effect. So all aspects are important. Leveling is very important for any part and any type of tracking. Antisakting) I agree, but still crucial. Styli) Interesting! We must remember though that is not just a matter of size but also design and geometry. Linear vs pivot) I need to experiment more before making a statement. 45RPM is some cases do sound better but not tremendously. What I can say is that the 33rpm version is usually worse than the 45rpm single back oin the day of singles!

[@leon9021]

​@@anadialog Off Center) Good point about the TX1000, I did not know that, thanks! Speed) I agree with the first part, less speed means less material is being used. But you are mistaken in thinking that there is more data in a 45RPM record, it is not completely analogous to tape for example. The Lathe cutting does not care about the speed of rotation, meaning there is no more data at 45 than 33. It is the same data, just more tightly fit on a 33 vs more spread out on a 45. This helps a playback system to not mistrack, but given identical masterings, the output is the same. Leveling) It depends on the degree I suppose, of course an upside down table wont play at all, but small errors usually dont cause heavy mistracking, they just add skating forces and such which as we agree can never be perfect. Styli) Sure, but as I understand it most high end shapes are very similar, the small differences are just put in place so as to not infringe on copyright. The main goal in all shapes is really to reduce the thickness so as to fit any tight curve of groove formation, this image shows the idea: sites.google.com/site/zevaudio/_/rsrc/1311523912615/turt/stylus-shape-information/aroundthebendpincheffect.gif?height=275&width=400 Linear vs) Please do, I have only ever heard of people criticizing the design for introducing vibrations but Ive never seen anyone really show it. Like with Direct Drive, people still believe it sounds bad because a motor attached spindle causes vibration, but even just decent modern day DDs dont suffer from this as far as I can tell. 45 RPM certainly doesnt sound worse if anything, its only positive in regards to sonics. But there are a few problems when we compare the two. Most 45RPM reissues do not have the same mastering as other 33 counterparts, making comparisons unfair to begin with. Also, even if they do share masterings in few cases like Fleetwood Mac Rumours Kevin and Hoffman remaster, the 45 version is cut louder. If one does not compensate for this my normalizing the audio signals you will again put the 45 in an advantage as louder can easily be perceived as more better in every regard, detail, soundstage, dynamics, you name it. But you can measure some things like dynamics and show that this is clearly not the case, and if you ask Hoffman himself he will confirm in saying that the 33 sounds just the same on a well tracking deck. Balance the audio for both and the only difference might be a slightly louder noise floor on the 33 which given a good pressing and loud music shouldnt matter at all.

[@markclausson564]

That test LP is too hard to get with the hole in the center and not warped. Either 1 of these defects makes it useless for a test LP.

[@anadialog]

There are several brands that make them. Mine is in perfect condition.

[@Andersljungberg]

That may well be why singles are at 45rpm

[@jeffreyflick4501]

The easiest way to end inner groove distortion is to buy a linear tracking turntable.

[@Andersljungberg]

The CD has varied speeds. fastest in the beginning, ie the first song. and the first song is closest to the middle, ie the closest hole on the CD. was it the same with laser disc? an optical analog a disc would have been interesting. and the advantage would be that you would not need an expensive cartridge. you would only need the same type of lens as you might find a CD player or laser disc. And of course there would be varied speed on the disc

[@zachariahadams]

Don't let George Clinton drop the groove

[@RedVynil]

I don't like watching this typology of video.