How to Regulate The Certina DS Action Diver Powermatic 80 movement

#howilbur #learnwatches #watchhowto
Tissot also uses the Powermatic 80 movement
Also, some Hamiltons have Powermatic 80 movement
This movement is a bit different from the ETA 2824 it is based on. It is much, much harder to regulate because of that change...Here I describe what to do it and what not to do.
Intro Music:
Interloper by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Outro Music: Dusty Road by Dan Leibowitz

[@kswaminathan5439]

Thank you for answering my query. Please keep on uploading such videos as we get to know about the intricacies of mechanical watch making. Thank you so much. Looking forward to many more videos.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

I will try my best! ...Sorry for the delay...I just moved across country to Pennsylvania...Put a kink in my YouTubing :)

[@klaus-juergenkessel3916]

Thanks to share your expertise with us !

[@Red_Pill_King]

Good video! 💯

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Thanks!!

[@superfast30]

Great video good sir. One question if I may. Is the powermatic 80 with the synthetic escapement as easy to service as a regular 2824? Would you say that the service interval is about the same for both?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Thanks! That is a good question. Functionally it is pretty much identical to your normal ETA movement, so if the watch just needs normal cleaning and stuff, it should be serviceable by pretty much any watchmaker. However, if the modified parts need repair or replacement, you may very well have to send it to Certina to be repaired. I expect those parts would be hard to get for any watch maker who isn't an authorized repair person. I am guessing that since the VPH of the balance is slower, then either the barrel, or the center wheel pinion gearing must be different so the center wheel itself still rotates at 1 rpm. Fortunately, those pretty much never fail, so that shouldn't be a problem...I expect that pretty much everything else except the hair spring are bog standard ETA parts. (This is my best guess based on what I know of how movements work...I haven't heard officially if this is the case )

[@user-fn7mb2gl8x]

Hey man, thanks for this valuable video. I own an earlier version of this watch with the 2824-2 and was wondering if the powerlatic 80 version could in fact be regulated. I also wanted to ask you about the bezel. I have worn mine daily for about 8 years and it still runs great (having had it regulated a few times). But the bezel indices have faded from white to yellow. Have your bezel indices faded? Thanks.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

You are totally welcome! No fading on mine so far, but it really isn't all that old :) They are great watches, and it is really good to know you have had such good longevity with yours!

[@kswaminathan5439]

Great video. If you loosen the screw, will the watch run fast or slow? Likewise, what will happen if you tighten the screws? Do you need to adjust only one screw or both the screws. I have a Tissot Powermatic called Chemin des tourelles. It says no adjustment is necessary as the watch, once adjusted at the factory, will continue to keep perfect time. Is this true?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Thanks! The watch is normally adjusted, but in my case it was way off...If you do need to regulate one of these things, you basically turn the screws so the weight on the head of the screw is either farther or closer to the center of the balance...You should always do both the same to keep the balance in balance :)

[@KatelynMMM]

Thanks for uploading, I've been looking for information on how Powermatic 80 and similar movements produced under Swatch can be regulated, since their press material states rather oddly, "The high-tech escapement has no regulator; the rate is set at the factory with a laser, making the manual rate adjustments normally required by a mechanical watch unnecessary." I guess it's essentially a free sprung balance, which should, in theory, reduce service intervals and increase accuracy-- but from Swatch's perspective has the added benefit of cutting out independent watch makers / repairmen not capable of doing this kind of regulation. Explains the weird press material- basically, "No Trespassing!"

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Yeah, it is a bit annoying that many watch manufacturers are trying to kill off the independent watch servicers...I hear that Rolex is one of the worst about that. Restricting parts and whatnot. I really wondered about that laser comment too :) Thanks for stopping by!

[@AnalogueInTheUK]

Disgusting behaviour from the manufacturer.

[@bentlyist]

Thanks for the video! What size screwdriver do you need for those tiny screws?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

HI! I'm not sure what size that is...Looks like about a 1mm tip...Any jewelers screwdriver set should have one that will work. ---Thanks for stopping by!

[@bentlyist]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Got it, thanks for the reply!

[@d1xenotime]

Very useful. Thank you.

[@SekundenZeiger]

What do you think about the new plastic lever escapement. Progress or rather regression? Many Thanks

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

I have heard the stones were replaced with plastic, but looking at them I couldn't really tell...I haven't heard from an official source that they actually have made that change. Do you have a link to a definitive answer about that?? Love to see it. If it is true, I am not sure it will really make a significant difference given modern day plastics and the very low friction that part is under. I would really like to know what the material actually is, though!! Thanks!

[@steeldoubloon19]

I did do a bit of research and the synthetic material which seemed to be delrin, used in some Omega speedmasters. It seems that the frictional coefficient ranges from 0.1 to 0.3 depending on the manufacture whilst a ruby jewel has 0.1-0.15. I’d assume the delrin used is closer to 0.1 than 0.3. Also, the tensile strength is at most 150Mpa which is comparable to brass (120-300Mpa). Brass is still used in high end watches namely handmade ones and they seem to do fine. In addition, according to American plastic corp, it lasted almost indefinitely when repeatedly exerted a force of 5000psi and off again. I’am sure the forces in a watch are not this high. Furthermore, it also deforms less than brass. At fracture, delrin deforms 10-40% depending on the manufacture whilst brass is 50%. Therefore it can also wear more without having a significant effect on the accuracy. So it seems that as a jewel replacement for the balance staff it seems fine as friction is similar, as an escape wheels , it should be fine too considering brass was used for years and still used on the torquier gears near the power reserve. So I’d say it’s a win win for quality and cost but a loss for visual aesthetics. Just look at the lemania 5100 made of delrin. So I think it’s safe to say that it’s a win elsewhere but a loss to beauty

[@akrajuancruz]

Hello, I´ve recently purchased a Certina watch with the powermatic 80 caliber and after running for two weeks, all the day in my wrist and resting at night face up, I´m having an accuracy of +24 to +38 seconds a day. Is it considered normal? (Certina says -5 to +25 is normal). Should I wait some time until it is stabilized? I don´t like the idea of servicing the watch as soon and open the case... Thank you.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

So sorry I am replying so late! YT has stopped telling me when folks reply! :( That performance is not great, but what I have found is that if you let it settle for a couple months, it might get better. Since it has been some time, has yours become more accurate?

[@akrajuancruz]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Hello, yes, the watch during this time has improved its precission and now is about +12 seconds a day, wich is better and enough for me. So the watch needed some time running and I'm happy with it. Thank you for your reply.

[@jazz1ba]

My certina ds action diver arrived 10 days ago and I'm loving it, however I noticed that clock is ticking at cca -2 or -3 secs a day. Is that good? Is there resting position to gain these seconds over night?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

That is excellent! You really can't expect a mechanical watch to perform any better than 2 or 3 seconds a day...That is right in the COSC certification range :) I only have two watches that perform that well and those are an Omega Seamaster Pro, and an Oris Aquis...My Certina has drifted off from when I regulated it. I suspect mind needed more break-in time before I regulated it, so I will regulate it again one of these days

[@jazz1ba]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Wow great to hear that have calibrated and precise movement. :) This is my first mechanical watch so I didn't know what to expect. Please take a picture of escapement and pallet fork when you open the watch again. I'm really curious if they are made of silicon or plastic. Ticking sound from the watch doesn't sound plasticky to me :)

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

@@jazz1ba Will do...you can see some of it in my regulation video :)

[@robertm8401]

Got mine two days ago set it (like all my watches) to local standard time and lost 3 seconds in 48 hours. To say I am happy is an understatement. What I don't get is why some do so well and others like the one on this vid do horrible. Is that just a slip at the quality control department?

[@JB-fl2gp]

My powermatic read +2 out of the box, then +33 when magnetized. Are you sure it didn’t get magnetized in shipping? I’ve had that happen a few times.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

That was the very first thing I checked...I was surprised when it turned out it wasn't magnetized. :)

[@ne0tic]

I just got the ''Certina DS-1 Big Date Powermatic 80'' a few days ago. Dial up seems to be about +6 seconds a day and crown up about +2 seconds a day. Regular wear for 12 hours seems to be +2,5 seconds, so +5 seconds a day. Is this pretty good or? I was hoping for maybe +3 seconds a day but it might not manage to do that. Will try crown down tonight and see what I get. Atleast, if I got it crown up during night, I should be able to keep the watch at +4 seconds a day which I'm pretty fine with!

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

That is great accuracy for a no-cosc movement! It might be even a little better once you have a month or two of wear. It seems that a break-in period settles them down a bit :) Let us know how this does after you have worn it for awhile. Still think the Certina is a whole lot of quality for a good price. :)

[@ne0tic]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Okay, that is good to hear! Thanks.

[@fgaryam]

Great video, Wilbur. Kinda tricky to turn screws with minimal downward pressure. I assume you used a screwdriver and not a crescent wrench :>) Actually, the reason I searched for a video on how to regulate this movement was because I wanted to know how to support the balance wheel while turning these screws. But you demonstrated (though we couldn't actually see it) that you could turn the screws without support. Oh, and one other thing. Another watch expert suggested marking the first screw you turned with a light mark using a fine sharpie. I thought that was good advice too. Then you'd know for sure which screw you were messing with.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Thanks!! You do have to have a feather touch with the screwdriver, but it really isn't too hard. I really tried to get a shot of the screw as I did it, but it was impossible with my lenses and stuff--hard enough seeing it myself :) Marking them is a good idea! I made big enough corrections each time that I had no trouble telling which I had moved, but if you were making really small corrections... Two hardest things was getting the balance wheel to stop in the right place by pulling the crown, and matching the adjustments on the two screws. I suspect patients is the biggest tool in the watchmakers toolbox ; } Thanks for stopping by!

[@Schrottkralle]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Patience is always the best tool for watchmaking. It´s much easier to regulate this movement by first removing the automatic rotor and -bridge. Then you will have unobstructed access to the entire balance wheel. And don´t worry, there is no spring or any other part that will fly away when removing the automatic bridge. And one friendly advice: please do not touch any parts of the watch with bare fingers. Not even to turn the rotor.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

@@Schrottkralle Absolutely right on all counts!

[@jonathanrobinson9208]

Thanks for your video ! I have a question. 2 of my Certina's are very difficult to wind, (ds 1day date and ds4 small seconds)could it have to do with the dual gaskets in the crown ? And do you think it can be fixed? I've been using a watch winder. If you have any suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate it ! Thank you, Jonathan ❤

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Hi Jonathan! That is a good question and not sure I can give a great answer, but I will share my experience :) When my watches have become hard to wind, it has always been that the oils have gotten dried up and maybe a little gummy. I don't imagine it is really the gaskets. How old are these watches? If they are going on 10 years, I would definitely say a good clean and service is your best bet. If they are newer than that, and haven't been used hard in a dirty environment, then it might be that you don't wind them much and the keyless works gets stiff...I would try winding them more to see if they free up some. I did have an inexpensive Chinese made watch that I suspect had cheap oils in it...That watch got really hard to wind, but after wearing and winding the watch for a week, it got much better. Hope this is helpful!

[@jonathanrobinson9208]

@A Dude And His Watches Hello Dude ! Thanks for your help ! Unfortunately, the watches are around 4 years old (and out of warranty.) I spoke to a jeweler, a town over from me and he seemed less than interested in taking a look at them, so I thought I'd made a couple of " bad buys " and decided to use a winder. But then I bought a Certina chronometer, and it was buttery smooth, and then I lucked out, and your video popped up ! Your knowledge and gift for explaining things made me reach out to contact you for your input. I've found a couple of shops in my area to contact for a service and repair . Thanks again for your help it's greatly appreciated! Stay well, Jonathan 👍❤️

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

@@jonathanrobinson9208 Its a little surprising they would stiffen up in just 4 years! How hard are they to wind?? Can you make them move at all? Do they make any noise other than normal winding noises when you do twist them?

[@adamski101]

I have a brand new DS Action Diver and the crown is heavy to turn for every function; setting the time, date and handwinding. I believe it is down to O rings gripping the stem of the crown and causing friction. Quite annoying really.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

@@adamski101 That is interesting! Can you describe how stiff it is? The only time I have seen that with my watches is some older ones that haven't been wound for extended periods of time. I figured they probably had older style oils or were just drying up a bit and needed a good service. You don't expect to have really stiff winders on a new watch! I would think if it is painfully stiff and doesn't ease up pretty quick, you might want to return it and get another. I had to return a watch that had a rotating bezel operated by a crown that was just too hard to use. So hard, in fact, that I almost made a tool that would fit over the crown; something with a T-handle that saved my fingers. :)

[@claudiugaspar7979]

Hello, Please tell me, do both screws adjust or just one? Thank you

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Hi Claudiu, I think you should do both as equally as possible to keep things in balance. My intuition tells me that doing them unevenly would probably make the thing more likely to wobble and over time would wear on the pivots and hurt the performance. Thanks!

[@endeavorfashionconcern2907]

Hello Wilbur this is Imran from Bangladesh. Till I found your video I heard that the powermatic 80 movements are non regulating movement. But for the first time I saw that you can regulate the movement. However from the video I could not see exactly how you regulate this. So it will be very nice if you could show this once more or perhaps explain how you do that. I have a Mido Caliber 80 which is same powermatic 80 and I am not happy with the accuracy. So your further video or explanation will help me regulate the watch and get the optimum benefit on accuracy. Many thanks for your kind initiative.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Hi Imran! Thanks for checking out my video :) I will try to show it better how I regulated the movement...When I did it before, I didn't have the right place where I could set up other cameras to show what I was doing. I will soon have a new watchmakers bench that should help so I can get better closeup videos. The main thing is just to be super careful and not press down when turning the screws so that you don't put pressure on the balance staff and jewels and stuff. Just thing "Feather Touch" . and the other thing is to not rotate the balance wheel manually, but rather let it stop by pulling out the stem...takes a lot of tries to get it to stop in just the right place, but rotating it by hand can cause it to have more beat error.

[@calibretimepiececalibretim3288]

Hi. Is it both screw turn off the same way?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Yes. I think they are basically just screws...Probably plan to turn them to loosen rather than tighten...At least that is my guess :)

[@SlavaT]

Hello ! Has the accuracy of the clock changed over time ?

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Good question...I haven't noticed it being any worse, but I should slap it on the timegrapher again just to see what it says. Will try to remember to do that and let you know.

[@SlavaT]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches When will you have time for this, of course. Thanks in advance !

[@jirikrajnak9047]

Okay, let me just whip out my timegrapher, loupe, and all the other watchmaker gizmos required for this.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

LOL Fortunately, they are much cheaper than they used to be :)

[@jazz1ba]

Are there plastic parts in this movement? I've heard some horror stories about main parts of the movement are made of plastic.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Hey Jazz1ba....I don't think there are any plastic parts in this movement...at least I didn't see any. I intend to take some of it apart and inspect it closer, but as far as I have ever heard, these are the same quality as your normal ETA 2824 which have no plastics in them. --Thanks for stopping by!

[@jazz1ba]

@@ADudeAndHisWatches Thanks for the reply, I'm located in Europe, Bosnia and I fell in love with this watch, but there are no Certina dealers nearby so I have to order the watch online. I hope it will not be a dissapointment. I'm big fan of Tissot, so this will be my very first Certina. Regards from Bosnia.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

@@jazz1ba I bet it will be a good watch for you...Mine certainly seems good, especially for the price. :)

[@ptxbrg2599]

Hello Wilbur and @jazz1ba, I am also very intrested in this question and to find out if Powermatic 80 is a step up or down compared to ETA2824. As I found so far there are different versions of Powermatic 80 and for example the C07.111 versions has plastic escapement. I assume that C07.111 equals to 80.111. (E.g. Tissot Luxury) The C07.6xx versions have traditional escapement. Thanks for the informative videos Wilbur!

[@cristiano_bg146]

je travaille chez ETA et je connais pas autant de truc sur la montre

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

Vraiment?! C'est super! Tu fais quoi chez ETA ??

[@Schrottkralle]

...when I see someone touching parts with bare hands! 😱😱😱

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

I know! I have learned better :)

[@zash008]

Powermatic80 movements have a couple plastic parts from what I understand. If this must be, i may as well keep my old Seiko SEL008 WorldTimer

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

I have heard that, but looking inside, I couldn't see any...And I haven't heard that actually being confirmed by anyone. ...and you probably need both ; }

[@peterdegelaen]

The Powermatic 80 is not 1 movement, it is a family of movements. As you may know, these movements are made by ETA (just as the 2824-2 movement from which the Powermatic 80 is derived). The ETA product code for these movements is "C07.xyz" (e.g. C07.111 or C07.811). The Tissot naming convention for these movements is "80.xyz"; xyz is the same as with the ETA naming convention. x can be 1, 6 or 8. If it is 1, the movement does indeed contain a plastic part: the pallet fork. If it is 6 or 8, it does NOT contain plastic parts. You can also see that on the number of jewels; the ones with a 1 contain 23 jewels, while the ones with a 6 or 8 contain 25 jewels (those two additional jewels are the jewels of the pallet fork). 6 indicates that it has a Nivacron hairspring and 8 indicates it has a silicon hairspring. The y value indicates which function the movement has: 1=date, 2= day-date, 5=big date, 6=date +GMT, 7=power reserve indicator. z is always 1 at this moment. Not all combinations are available at this time. Hope this helps.

[@zash008]

@@peterdegelaen this helps alot, thanks. I wish the watch brands websites that use the Powermatic80 would include this on a FAQ page.

[@whoknows8678]

Never touch anything in/on a movement with your bare oily hands. Always use gloves or, better, finger cots.

[@watchfan6180]

Take back to Certina to fix. It has warranty. These are not designed to be regulated, they are factory set.

[@ADudeAndHisWatches]

But where's the fun in that?! Actually, I think that is the right answer for most people.

[@watchalot919]

We didn't see the actual adjustment, so learned nothing

[@wish]

learned literally nothing