HOW TO SADDLE HUNT WITH TETHRD - The Untamed

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[@TethrdNation]

This is awesome! Team Tethrd and The Untamed need to hunt some WV whitetails together!

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Tethrd Nation open invite! Let’s gooooo!

[@justincowley84]

Where bouts in WV are yall? Im in Harper's ferry area

[@BassLife4Life]

Why is this video not on your channel as well

[@sentfromdaniel]

Also fellas. As a climber. My dad got us to clean our spikes after all climbs. Incase a black walnut had a disease. We didn’t want to spread that with our spikes to a nice ash tree an hour away. Food for thought. Been in the saddle for 18 years. Love it still! 🤘🏹👊💯🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@biobis5257]

I wish everyone on KZbin would explain as simply as this gentleman. Fantastic job, sir!

[@s1esteve]

I needed to see the big fella get in it

[@larrycarman91399]

Positives to the saddle is less weight & possibly less noise in set up. Versatile shooting possibilities. Some negatives. Flagrant movement & learning curve especially setup in the dark. Climbing spikes are ok, but with scouting strap ladders on designated trees might be better. Good video guys & good luck this season 👍

[@OutdoorShellback]

This morning I was very intrigued by the saddle hunting setup. Looked like something that could definitely help get in close to where the big boys are at, or at least get to where a standard tree stand might be difficult to hang. However, by this afternoon I was almost completely turned off when I learned that a base line setup, without sticks, would run me in the ballpark of $500. Someday, perhaps, innovative ideas will incorporate an innovative priceline to accomodate an affordable price tag.

[@robspear03]

Well said. Its super light, super quiet and ultimately more expensive. By alot.

[@michaelrobinson6670]

I bought one of those tree seats like 15-20 years ago, which looks something like this. Hell might still have it somewhere, but let me tell you hunting in these things suck in the rain. It makes you hug the tree, and the rain runs down the tree into your legs. Also I used spikes to climb the tree, and was climbing a hard wood and slide down the tree 10’ when my spike didn’t grab the tree enough.

[@whitetailpoet4243]

Hey Jared. I like to stand up in my portable and had concerns of always being stuck in the seated or leaning position in a saddle. You answered that at (8:52). Thank you sir. I think I'm sold! Take care.

[@twayne4usa]

saddles are awesome!! game changer for my son and i hunting public in MS. Best of luck to all this season. God Bless!!

[@mr.skeptical3071]

I hunted out of my mantis for the first time this a.m., it is super comfortable and cool. However.....the bridge does tend to get in the way some. The predator platform is really nice. I use 6 wild edge steps. But I must say, this whole system takes a lot of time to go up in the tree. You will be sweating on early season! Best advice I got is to have trees already prepped with steps or ladders!!! Also get either knee pads or a small pad to put on tree....trust me!

[@rickparshall]

So today I carried 80lbs worth of hang on stand and sticks plus pack and bow a mile up 1000ft of vertical, struggled setting it up(got snorted at by a buck running away..) sat briefly and didn't like the angle so I left it all on state land and am putting in an order for basic starter pkg..... screw all that work... I am SOLD on saddle hunt.... thanks guys!! Not sure I want to wait as long as tethrd says it will take...

[@roymcdavid1015]

Cool. Be nice to see some video of ya'll in the back yard getting used to this thang.. Like the consept ,but scared of the learning curve. Like hitting a good knuckleball , looks easy but sucks when you try it!

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Roy McDavid I think you would be surprised how easy it actually is. We were thinking the same thing going in to it. It’s simple, a lineman’s belt and the Tethrd rope. We will talk more about them when we are hunting out of them I’d say.

[@DavidGonzalez-ek3zh]

Thx for breaking it down. Good info. This system was developed from tree arborists and rock climbing saddles. Cost needs to come down. Happy hunting!

[@MichaelCook1981]

David Gonzalez Yeah, I bought my lineman and tether rope from Hunter Safety Systems for half the price of their ropes.

[@PurelyMi]

I’m curious about how you should size the saddle. It appears to fit just right when you’re in casual clothes. What about later season bulky clothing? Will a larger saddle accommodate the late season clothing while remaining comfortable for the warmer part of the season? Or will the smaller saddle work for both?

[@justinryan1488]

Can we get an explanation on tying the tag end of the tether like seen once the Bows on the tree?

[@mikemellon80]

Seems really awesome for a hang and hunt but how is it when it’s November 1st and you have a ton of bulky clothes and big boots on?

[@ChickensAndGardening]

So light weight and simple. Now I'm wondering why I invested in a Summit Viper, extra molle straps etc.

[@billwhitacre703]

I've always been winded from a ground blind. I'm used to being 25ft off the ground in a lock on with numb legs. Ladder stands are not off the ground enough. I'll need to invest into one of these for WV this year.

[@fernandobrown7386]

What part of wv you from??? I live in this great state as well

[@billwhitacre703]

@@fernandobrown7386 Mineral County, it's in the north central area. Very rural , what about you?

[@fernandobrown7386]

Oh ok i live in Ritchie Co

[@billwhitacre703]

@@fernandobrown7386 Ok

[@Wicked7outdoors]

Can I buy the entire deal? belt tether platform hooks all of it ready to go? Or do I have to piece it out?

[@tjweaver7683]

Very intriguing tired of lugging heavy climbers on public land but damn that's alot of steps and ropes for a beginner I feel it would take alot of practice 2 pull this off the correct safe way??? What's yalls opinion how long did it take to get good and comfortable quick and efficient with this style setup when first starting out???

[@sawtoothscream1521]

I have a sit and drag saddle but after playing in the yard I never used it in the field. Only good shot is to the left hand side and it takes a lot of movement if you have to shoot to the right. For my spots I hunt on public I'm better off with my climber or mobile hang on and stick setup. Plus I haven't found a way to pack all the crap I need comfortably.

[@jaybo516]

How many hours are you sitting comfortably ?

[@gregjohnson5194]

I know this video is a little old but I was wondering why the bridge rope was such a smaller diameter. You have all those big claiming ropes and then your life is held up by that little bridge rope is this some kind of hybrid rope or something anybody know. Please respond.

[@jasonbusby8757]

Can you or would you use a crossbow or a rifle to hunt in these saddles?

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Jason Busby absolutely

[@leeward4714]

Spikes vs climbing sticks,....what would be the better method?

[@leathernecktreeservicebobr7516]

Depends where you're at I'd say. Some guy with a nice timber stand might not like spikes in his timber. Also may depend on how long you plan on being out there. Last but not your losing area. I honestly believe it would be easier to buy a foot and knee ascender and find a low branch

[@aaront3219]

Repping the Bow Life shirt. What better way to try out a saddle in.

[@jeffersonhester2355]

Learning this in Hunter ed course. YES more learning toward my test. Grate vid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@getthatcornouttamyface2461]

I would like to try this, but dang I'm looking at $1000 once I buy the saddle, platform and sticks!! I think I'll stick with my summit viper🤔

[@weberk95]

unless youre buying $500 climbing sticks, the entire system is $5-600 with everything

[@getthatcornouttamyface2461]

I will look into it again, thanks👍

[@getthatcornouttamyface2461]

I checked the price and its $385 for the starter kit, $300 for the platform and then I would still need sticks.

[@weberk95]

Getthat Cornouttamyface platform was $180 last I saw, but not technically necessary. Sticks can be $50-200 depending on how much you want to spend. I could be wrong

[@parkerlathem2586]

Awesome product! If you could get some sort of fall protection like a bucksqueeze for when you are actually doing the climbing, i’d buy it right now!

[@buffleOHbill]

Parker Lathem the rope system he attached before stepping onto the platform should be attached to the tree throughout the entire climb, according to manufacturers. You just slide it up the tree as you go higher. It takes a little bit more effort but it’s the safest way to climb. I usually put mine as high as possible and then slide the prussick up as I go, so I only have to move the rope a couple times

[@parkerlathem2586]

William Reading Yeah i’d just like something that would hug the tree if pressure was puton it. Something that tightens and squeezes around the tree if you were to fall

[@CARLPHILLY]

How much would the complete system cost?

[@chancewinters440]

Honestly would love to use this. It allows so many new tree selections but for what it cost and what you get not worth the money in my opinion. For 300 I can buy 4 lock ins and a set of sticks

[@chancewinters440]

Oh and that doesnt include the base....

[@Howlin23]

What video camera did you use to film this with. I know in the past you guys used the Sony PXW-X70 but I have to say out of all the videos I watch filmed by this camera your image looks different and different in a good way. If this is still the camera you’re using could you share the picture profile and any settings you use to film with?

[@AV1776]

What brand of climbing spikes were those?

[@rondunlap9232]

Oh man as a lineman I thought for sure you guys were going to have splinter nuts for lunch. Knees way to close to the tree, stab the tree like a upside down j motion stabbing the tree with your gaff, keep the top pad of your gaff away from the tree from I think lol 4-6 inches sorry it’s been awhile since climbing school! Try to avoid always looking down at your feet, when you climb. Great video, I was waiting to see someone use climbers for bow hunting! One question, can I use my climbers (gaffs) to hunt in public lands?

[@AA-fg3wj]

I never see any 300 pound or heavier guys in a saddle. Is there a reason for that? I ask because I'm a big guy and seriously interested in saddle hunting. Thanks for sharing!

[@mr.skeptical3071]

I put the tether forehead high and I noticed that the bridge is right in the way of me drawing my bow. Should it be like chest high?

[@EDOutdoors91]

What settings do you use to give the video this sort of look?

[@rogerramjet7567]

Great system!! Great video. Thanks

[@Stihl4life]

Can't wait for my saddle to get here👍. I have a summit climber that I have never used🤷‍♂️

[@ElkinsEric]

M H man I love my Summit Climber. But this saddle may be a game changer

[@curtisj.pacejr.579]

Love to try it, but dang the cost. We are all not rich.

[@dbuckner902010]

Curtis J. Pace Jr. the cost is for one purchase and it would never have to be replaced I spent almost the same on a tree stand and all the other stands I have purchased over the years

[@chancewinters440]

I'm with you for what your getting 300 is pricy

[@sierraridgereaper]

Just make your own, its not hard and everything is available online.

[@donborg3331]

I'm 67years old, I think this system of hunting is safer than regular tree stand. Oh ya I'm a little on the heavy side too. You can do it, take your time going up n down.

[@swalker9482]

I agree

[@pile18york]

What size untamed tee shirt is that large or XL?

[@huntintime2268]

2 words... Summit Viper!!

[@soko1450]

I have one where I go hunting in Ohio every year has very few trees fit for a climber. And it was awkward as hell getting to the spots I could with that thing on my back.

[@stevepauley2437]

Three more words for ya, Heavier Louder Slower

[@wassawbound2926]

I'm sure the lineman out there are laughing at you guys in spikes. One point to make is the spike will end up in your opposite calf or ankle if you slip up. I wouldn't advise using them in the back country without a lot of practice. Gonna carry sticks this year. I'm still waiting on my saddle. Hope Team Tethrd can ship it soon.. :)

[@eric44707]

Yes I’m a lineman and an arborist and this was pretty much disgusting. I was just waiting for a kick out and ride the tree down. It probably happened but was edited out.

[@tennesseedakota]

Love watching you guys! I'm here on the other end of the Appalachians in Tennessee

[@TheUntamedHunt]

dakotacantrellfishing nice. Thank you!

[@americanboathead5390]

Seemed kinda weird till he brought the bow out, then it all made sense!! Pretty sweet!

[@Isaacmantx]

American Boathead dude, the options are endless.... I’ve been running a saddle 6 years and counting. I’ll never run a stand again unless it is pre-set private.

[@americanboathead5390]

@@Isaacmantx I was like "woah wait a second!" Lol the range of movement is nuts! I can see why after your used to it, the big stands would seem ridiculous! Seems more natural in a way too

[@renoherr8765]

@@Isaacmantx Can you share your experience? How long do you sit on your saddle for? What is the comfort level?

[@plank3000]

Why does nobody climb the tree, I want to see how you guys get up there

[@thereelaccountant9246]

you didn't watch the whole video

[@paulcrave3112]

Both did pretty well. Good video. Thanks for that. One thing Jared didn’t mention about the two different leg strap locations on the saddle is that the higher ones are great for walking a long way with your saddle on and the lowers ones may be more comfortable for sitting while in the tree.

[@waelharp4060]

Got to get one looks like the way to go

[@charlesoxford6155]

I Wish could see different ways to climb the tree

[@theebigda]

Saddle equipment is so darn expensive though!!

[@timesupoutdoors1708]

Awesome video guys

[@jonathanechols9985]

Ill stick with my tree stand.

[@montemaguire4596]

And I'll stick with my Lone Wolf Clinber. Had it for 10 years now .

[@samhotstick13.28]

Keep your self away from the tree. toes up you stay up, toes down you go down. while climbing with hooks

[@robertclark785]

Yes, you guys were way to straight-up when climbing. Increase the angle in relation to the tree and keep your toes up as Sam mentioned above.

[@louiscooper6572]

You guys are cool awesome content like to see you guys make a video of you guys shooting the new bears and good spot and stalk tactics you guys are awesome keep up the good work

[@jonessoutdooradventures1152]

So sweet right on!

[@The_Fit_ness_monster]

Only thing I see better than my climber is it’s less weight, MUCH more work to set up and get up the tree, but at far as shooting there’s no angle I can’t get to from my climber.

[@mattkontyko97]

What kind of tree spurs/spikes are those?

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Matt Kontyko gecko carbon fiber.

[@deepwoodshunting5068]

Look fun I'm thinking about getting into hunting from a saddle

[@76mdw]

Butt out, knees locked and toes up.....you will be fine if you remember those 3 things. Looks awesome. 20 year lineman here, please let me know if you need anymore help!!

[@dbuckner902010]

76mdw really knees locked ? I just watched a video the other day that said never lock your knees always keep them bent and they stressed on it

[@bigbuck8733]

You guys are awesome true beast mod hunting!!

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Big Buck87 thank you! 🤘🏼

[@edithhowell8563]

I ordered my mantis system 4 weeks ago. Patiently awaiting it. Was nice to see this video

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Edith Howell thank you!

[@montemaguire4596]

When ever I order anything it only takes 5 days to get.or less.

[@louishundred1812]

Great work 👍😎

[@rickyturner7722]

I love bowhunting but I seriously see this as Soo much more work than a tree stand. I hunt public land all year so I use a climber. It takes me less than five minutes to setup and climb a tree. I also feel like my legs would fall asleep. Just my opinion, happy hunting!

[@chasingthefish9042]

Man I disagree climbing stands are loud and can be potentially dangerous.

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@chasingthefish9042 Do you have a Tree Saddle?

[@chasingthefish9042]

@@russelllangworthy8855 I use an old arborist harness I found in my fathers basement lol. Even that being quite old is far less work then a climbing tree stand and it's way more quiet. This summer I plan to get into a phantom if possible. I had a viper sd and returned it to bass pro before I even got to kill anything out of it. I lost the base at 10 feet and had to bear hug the tree and burned my self up all the way down. I then got to carry a 8 foot ladder like two miles to get the top part. It was a terrible day lol

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@chasingthefish9042 I've never hunted out of a climber. Had one for a short time, practiced climbing with it and didn't like it so I sold it to a friend. Saddles look like the next big fad. Good luck to you out there.

[@BrockLowell]

Great job on explaining everything and I really enjoyed everything till we got to the predator platform. If your a true saddle hunter you don’t need a platform and you can’t shoot 360 degrees using your platform. You can’t shoot straight down under you with that platform. I know your going to say you can because it’s so small ok okay. Please teach a step system on straps so you can truly teach people how to hunt a saddle. You should be able to move around the tree like a squirrel from step to step. I understand your marketing with the platform cool but if you truly want to shoot 360 degree choose a Medium to a smaller tree hook you Tether in as high as you can reach and use at Minimum of four steps sometimes five or six make things extremely smooth. Then you will be able to shoot 360 degrees. Besides that The kids did such a good job Explaining your saddle that I think I will buy one for sure and teach my 16 year old Nephew on your saddle versus an old trophy line. Great job throw your platform away it’s a joke.....

[@swalker9482]

I don't use a platform. Just my climbing stix. Just one stick and aider. 5lbs total and can climb as high as you want. It's not fast but when walking along way, I prefer 5lb to 20+

[@louishundred1812]

Love your work guys 👍💖🙄😘

[@mrpush2532]

Hummm....looks neat but it seems too much fumbling to me. Ive done the climbers before.. its just so much setup time. You guys must get really high cause our deer "see ya" if you move around like that. That's why i use the good ol ladder stands w a blind cover to conceal most my movement. I know the saddles can be comfortable as i know somw tree guys...but standing a long time....i may not like that. Good for remote hunts though.

[@tylerparker3024]

Seems extremely uncomfortable to be there all day, and it also seems to me anyway like you would stand out way more hanging out away from the tree like that

[@chasingthefish9042]

I dont argee. 1. If you havent used one you shouldnt judge comfort. 2. I think a tree stand sticks out far more then this. people have killed deer in ladder stands for years

[@TRICK-OR-TREAT236]

IT'S JUNK. A GIMMICK. YOUR NUTS WOULD BE SCREAMING FROM THE PAIN AFTER A FEW MINUTES AND YOUR LEGS FROM THE CIRCULATION GETTING CUT OFF. L.O.L.

[@donborg3331]

When climbing with lineman spikes, keep your knees away from the tree. You scared 😨me watching you. I'm an old line man, just giving a little advice🤔

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Don Borg any advice is appreciated. That was our first time using them.

[@michaelsnater2345]

Why? What can happen?

[@donborg3331]

@@michaelsnater2345 climbing spike are designed to go in at an angle. If you don't do so you are septuple, to a cut out. Your body should be bent arms length away. I trained apprentice lineman teaching them to climb. This is not a out of the box, here you go here are your spikes , go climb a tree. Practice and training way advised, by me there are utube videos on how to climb a pole. Same principle Play it safe DON

[@CoalHunter]

This is great advice. I've been using climbing spikes to hunt with lock-on stands since I was 14. It really adds an advantage to hunting the steep terrains in the southern WV counties.

[@michaelsnater2345]

@@donborg3331 Thank you!

[@randyscott9034]

Really don’t see the point of using one a light weight strap on stand is much easier to use and to set up the saddle just seems like to much to think about and I’m pretty sure it can become uncomfortable but to each his own seems some guys swear by them

[@ATOUTDOORS]

hell yeah yall killer breakdown,be a good thing for em hit and run missions

[@TheUntamedHunt]

A.T. OUTDOORS thank you and no doubt! They won’t completely replace our hang on stands but it’s perfect for light weight running and gunning.

[@dansflying629]

Cant wait to hear about people fingers not working when it's cold out. I'll hunt my summit all day!

[@reggieshouse5190]

Interesting their web page rates the platform at 300 pounds not 500.

[@fairchaseoutdoors4181]

I’m 6’6” and 270 pounds. Standing like that, or letting the system support my weight all day would honestly be extremely uncomfortable for me. I’ll stick with a hang on. Really cool product though.

[@TheUntamedHunt]

David gillispie if you ever get a chance to try one do so. You might be surprised how comfortable they actually. We don’t plan to use them for every single hunt, but they’re definitely gonna come in handy when needed.

[@fairchaseoutdoors4181]

I can agree with that. I shouldn’t knock it until I try it!

[@FAFO_24]

I love it. But way too expensive for me.

[@mohunter68]

That system might be great for a young man, but I'm 50 yrs old and fat so I don't think this would apply to me. I'm more of a fixed stand Big Boy 17' with a shooting rail. Or my Goliath Summit climbing stand that I rarely go over 12 ft. Other than that, I will just hunt from the ground. Killed a 6 pt. with my crossbow on the ground last year at 17 steps away, and a doe with my 45/70 at 50 yards all from the ground. Still meat in the freezer and I didn't get a nose bleed trying to get er done. LOL

[@TheUntamedHunt]

mohunter68 lol whatever works best for you. Keep it up! There’s a ton of great ways to hunt. This is just another tool in the arsenal.

[@LouStoriale]

mohunter68 i’m 47 I weigh 275 pounds all muscle and I just got mine last year and I can tell you right now that it’s awesome

[@williambray7876]

@@TheUntamedHunt Love yalls channel Ill be starting my own channel next year ABC whitetails Here in Arkansas. I hunt private and public and my private ill still use my lock ons and sticks but public i hunt lots of WMA land and this system would really help having to hike way back away from pressured areas. Ill have one of these systems next year my only concerns is lots of movement when moving for a shot. Arkansas deer are very spooky and will bust you moving to much. good luck this season

[@stevepauley2437]

If you can use a climber, you can do this, no problem!

[@matthewlowe6973]

I’ll stick to my summit goliath. Cool concept though

[@thereelaccountant9246]

probably better for an all day sit, and really not much heavier (if using climbing sticks with the saddle). Just bulky

[@craigstaley1760]

I want one so bad but I dont understand why they are so much money. I wouldn't mind of I wasn't so broke I guess. Lol

[@chriselihunting8716]

Tell Brody to hit a homer and tell Bryson he is weird

[@appalachian_restorations229]

If that’s flinginairos with them, he’s a wv boy also

[@bossdawg165]

Ahhh Saw a little shot anticipating/trigger punching @12:41 lol

[@hectorleon5890]

Cool video but this system is not for me !

[@ELUKOI]

cool idea but there is no way I would want to stand in the tree for hours. Much rather sit.

[@jaydenton5512]

And that's supposed to be simpler and easier..?

[@HuntAppalachia1]

Id be careful with Jared. That dude is bad news.

[@leviglass871]

??

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Hunt Appalachia 😂😂 gave us the sketchy vibe for sure

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Levi Glass he’s joking that’s his buddy lol

[@leviglass871]

The Untamed 😂😂🤦🏼‍♂️

[@claytonwilliams367]

After watching the video I was all about trying one of these! Then I seen the price of one.

[@trochester100]

Clayton Williams you can just use the harness and stand on your climbing sticks or put your knees up against the tree. You don’t need the platform. So $200ish after you get the rope, which is cheap.

[@ohhunter1995]

No and no average Joe is gonna buy a $500 saddle

[@robertdahse4569]

The problem with saddle hunting is, the equipment is overpriced

[@bryangmailmcgrath5048]

I'm 53 and skinny sign me up I want one!!!

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Bryan McGrath give it a try 👍🏻

[@BrockLowell]

Good job skinny but that’s what people are missing you can be just about any size and hunt a saddle as long as you can climb. I’ve had 4 knee Surgeries and I’m 6’4 300 lbs and I have used a the saddle since I was a young 6’4 200lbs. If your strong enough to us a ladder and pull your body weight up then you can saddle hunt. The pic of me skydiving is me at 280 so I’m not a ball of fat but you don’t need to be skinny to us a saddle.

[@TheDave570]

The easy way is NOT to use a tree! Stalk hunt from the ground!!

[@djkilpatrick5256]

Have any videos of you doing that?

[@TheDave570]

@Okielawman You got the right@!!

[@mikekupetsky6879]

that is way to many moving parts for me buddy

[@appalachianarcher7071]

They are position lanyards not a lineman’s belt

[@TheUntamedHunt]

Derek Trent thanks for the clarification

[@thephillyoutdoorsman5777]

Nice but waaaaay overpriced

[@travis6191]

The Philly Outdoorsman still less than a decent stand

[@Bobbyholmesclubstep]

I think saddle hunting is a great option for situations where you need to pack in lite but it is absolutely ridiculous to claim it’s less than a decent tree stand. summit hang-on $70, set of 20’ sticks $80, safety harness $50 (or free with stand), pruusic knot rig $20- so you’re looking at $220 or less if you use free harness for everything you need. I’m just a simple country boy but still smart enough to know $220 is less than $500 for the saddle starter kit with platform.

[@travis6191]

Bobbyholmesclubstep nah

[@tjsisk480]

lol. Saddles suck. That’s why they come and go every 30 years in the industry. Lock-in climbers are always going to be the best option

[@barrelmaker3930]

Overpriced!

[@TRICK-OR-TREAT236]

STUPID TOO.

[@chriselihunting8716]

Jay did better

[@TRICK-OR-TREAT236]

WHAT A TOTAL P.O.S. WHO WANTS TO HUNT WITH ALL THAT CRAP HANGING OFF OF YOU ?

[@bobsmarts2662]

What a waste of time and money.

[@montemaguire4596]

Thats too much work .I'll stick with my lone wolf climber and climb atree in. 5 minutes or less. And have a place to rest my head and sit all day comfortably.thanks anyway.