How To Sit Properly On Your Ergonomic Chair

[@GigaCraft-420]

Man this fixed my neck pain in minutes, thank you!

[@TheRcCrazyFan]

What you have described at 1:30 to 2:00 is matching what I am facing when sitting on my new Steelcase Gesture chair with headrest...thanks for the explanation

[@Tephnos]

Is that because the headrest is forcing your head forward when you are used to sitting with your shoulders on the chair?

[@NiiiiLO]

Thank you so much!!! I’ve been going crazy for months now, I always followed ergonomics guide but still end up with pain in my shoulder blades, no one talks about this issue!!! Finally my posture is fixed and I don’t feel any strain while using the pc, thank you!!!

[@Tephnos]

It's funny you mention this, because one of the common complaints of the very popular Leap v2 headrest, and why everyone thinks it sucks, is that it shoves your head forward when sitting upright. Basically, like how the headrest in your chair sticks out forward from the top of the chair. BTODtv mention this in their KZbin video review of the headrest as their main dislike of it. (I would link it, but it seems KZbin deleted my last comment for doing so), but it is seemingly 'decent' when reclining, as it supports the head. From what you are describing, that complaint is actually exactly how the headrest is supposed to work; everyone who is complaining about the headrest pushing their head too far forward are actually all leaning too far back into the chair for upright working and are using it wrong?

[@TheCostantinus]

Great helpful video, thanks! I was wondering: if they're both comfortable, how about alternating these two styles of sitting? It would give a little extra mobility during long sitting sessions

[@OlivierGirard]

This requires a precise answer, Costantino... you just inspired me for the next video. I'll publish it tomorrow or the day after :)

[@OlivierGirard]

Here is your answer, mate: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5S9o4Rsf7RgpKM 😃

[@AM2K2]

Yes...I've just realised that leaning back puts my back into extension whilst having just my lower back touching the backrest is perfect...

[@AaronGaley]

What brand chair are you sitting in while making video? Looks very comfy!

[@OlivierGirard]

it is! Check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2PaqJ9sj9Sbgsk

[@EricSmith-uu4vq]

Thank you for the information. Does that mean we should buy mid-back chairs instead of high-back chairs? I have a relatively long torso. Sitting on an Aeron size B, the backrest barely touches my shoulder blades even if I lean my whole back against the backrest. I initially thought that the Aeron Size B is too small for me. Based on what you described, this might actually be a good fit for my back because it only touches the part below my shoulder blades?

[@gagandeepsingh-cv9ix]

How tall are you? I am 180cm and feeling the Size B Aeron a bit small. The back rest frame made my shoulder area sore and painful. Also, feeling numbness and pain in my thighs and legs.

[@justinwheeler2707]

Does this apply to the Herman Miller Embody as well? I thought you were supposed to lean back (with it locked upright) for it to "mold" to your spine due to the BackFit adjustment? Unfortunately it is causing some upper back / lower neck soreness after a workday in this chair that I've never had before. Just purchased it about a week ago and am trying to decide if I should return it. Also, it feels like it is pushing my shoulders forward and the armrests don't allow me to sit too close to the desk - not sure if that is the "ergonomic" way or not.

[@ovipaw]

hope you returned it and got a steelcase

[@justinwheeler2707]

@@ovipaw I did! Got a refurbished steelcase leap v2 instead and so far have no complaints!

[@ovipaw]

@@justinwheeler2707 nice! i got the gesture, heard both are very good chairs, I had embody and had issues adjusting to good posture.. doesn t make sense that chiar.

[@juanmatamoros4376]

Is this form of siting still good when your chair has an adaptive back support. Autonomous Ergo chair Pro plus. Would love your input on that?

[@DrBelser12]

Hi Olivier, very interesting video. I am in the market for an ergonomic chair because of a lot of pain in my upper back and neck that appears to stem from or be worsened by leaning forward in an unsupportive chair for years. I have no pain in my lower back. Is there not a case for someone like me needing more upper back support in addition to lumbar support? Thanks!

[@OlivierGirard]

Hi dear. The mid back support isn't really what you need I think... rather, I believe that you'd need to work on mid back tonus (spinal extensors, lower traps and latissimus dorsi) whilst reopening the chest. Module 1 of the Posture Academy aims at precisely that: oliviergirard.ch/en/posture-academy-online-program/

[@DrBelser12]

@@OlivierGirard Thanks so much for your kind reply. I will definitely consider the program. However, I am still in the market for an ergonomic chair. Are there certain chair characteristics, or even a specific model (I'm based in the U.S., so I have been considering HM and Steelcase largely) you would recommend for someone with my condition (general cervical spine issues)?

[@f4risa370]

What chairs do you recommend for me? im 5’7

[@gargantuan6241]

Sitting without the shoulder blades pressed to the back of the chair is too difficult. How bad is it to sit with shoulder blades pressed against the back? Excellent videos btw.

[@OlivierGirard]

thank you! Honestly, I think it's very difficult... if your chair isn't good enough. In the Posture Academy, my online program, I always insist on the Plan of Action, which states that technical measures have to be considered before behavioural ones. It's a typical example thereof.

[@gargantuan6241]

@@OlivierGirard You know what, I'm actually getting used to sitting like this now. My upper back is away from the top of my chair; neither hollow or slouch, and I just have to really dig in my glutes back into the seat and use the ergonomic chair's height adjustable lumbar correctly. Thanks again.

[@OlivierGirard]

Congrats! Changing habits always takes some time 👊🏼

[@Citizenflaba]

Thanks for the information! One lingering question though, due to this positioning it seems the headrest would not see much use if the upper body is "away" from the chair. If a chair allows for it, is it okay to extend the headset so it can support the neck/head while the shoulders are away from the back of the chair? Or is the headrest just something for use when not actively mousing and keyboarding like the arm rests?

[@OlivierGirard]

Great question! The headrest is indeed something to be used only when you rest. I have explained it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJKXhHmpbZqnpdE. So it's indeed an expensive accessory compared to how long we really use it for

[@petertyper1]

@@OlivierGirard i also have an aeron chair and a steelscase chair but I always get trapezius pain when I work on a computer screen and I can’t understand why, I try and sit good and relax but they’re constantly sore only when I work on my computer. Is this from my seating position or monitor ? Thanks

[@NickB-ev4uh]

@@petertyper1 I am the exact same. I can't figure it out

[@rodrigofreitas7397]

How does this advice play with an Embody chair? The back design of the Embody has a curvature that does not support the lumbar that well, and touches the shoulders. I have watched your Embody video, but still could not find a way of sitting on it correctly. And trying to not touch the shoulders by just being straight is causing pain.

[@OlivierGirard]

Yeah... that's one of the reasons why I find the Embody a complicated chair. I wouldn't buy it for me. Biomechanics is biomechanics: it applies all the time. But some chairs do better biomechanics than others...

[@lastmansleeping]

@@OlivierGirardYou are right. A big issue with the Embody for me is hamstring (and knee) pain. My strong guess is it is due to the leaning the shoulders onto the backrest, by design in the Embody, which leads to some sliding. Then my body trying to counteract the sliding puts a lot of stress on the hamstrings. Surprisingly, my back and shoulders are fairly pain free. I tried sitting 90° like you recommend, it immediately improves my pains. BUT… the Embody has almost no lumbar/sacral support when sitting that way. It also has a few degrees of wobble. Any recommendations?

[@neowild8102]

Hello, If that's the case and leaning on the backrest is not ideal, then why buy office chair in the first place. why not a perch type stool? If I'm going to buy an office chair (without headrest) and I would occasionally want to take a break by leaning back, it would mean that I'm putting pressure on my neck, because I have nowhere to lay my head. So that only leaves me with two options: Office chair (with a headrest) or perch stool. What are your opinions on Aeris stool such as Swopper? And Dauphin chairs. Should I spend 500 Euro on Swopper and sit straight on it or buy an office chair 700 Euro with a headrest and sit straight in it regardless? Thank you!

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey! You should indeed not lean on the backrest AT SHOULDERS LEVEL... but you should be fully against it at the level of the lumbar support. That's the part which bears the weight of your torso, which you won't have a on stool. Now, the question of how tall the backrest should be is discussed in this other video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZeqgouQfZVlipI Hence, a stool is not meant to be an office chair, because it either brings you into non neutral spinal postures, or it forces you to have a static contraction of the lower back extensors (muscles can't bear static contraction). Therefore, it's for very short periods of time only. For example, friends of mine who are phyios use such things because they go up and down all the time when they are with a patient - no sit deep into the chair. But once back at their PC, they have a proper office chair. Hence, get an office chair. And if you can afford an adjustable headrest, go for it. Makes sense?

[@neowild8102]

@@OlivierGirard Thank you for you answer! Huh, first time hearing that muscles can't bear static contraction, obviously it makes sense. I thought that perch-type stool would make my back bullet proof, which apparently is not the case. I do manage to sit long hours in stools, but many years of doing so has had an impact on my lower back and I'm only 23. I visited 2 different stores, and the way you taught to see if chair is right for us, would be to check these features: 1. height -> 2. seat depth all the way back (if needed adjust minimally, so belt would not lose pressure) -> 3. lumbar(belt)(coccyx) support Height. CHECK Belt support. NOT REALLY A CHECK. All those chairs were mesh (not a single upholstered one to try out). I think that upholstered chairs have a better belt support. One store had a chair, which had a really nice plastic belt support which went all the way down and put constant pressure towards my belt area. GOOD. But the thing was that It had a really curve shaped backrest and no headrest, which equals to extended neck. Glad I didn't buy that chair, your videos literally saved me my money. That video, where you described backrests really shed some light on me. Maybe I'm going to get one with a lower backrest (for tasking), or high back one with headrest (for tasking/resting). How do you feel about upholstered chairs, especially in summer? Does extra support outweigh sitting in a hotter chair? EDIT: Forgot to ask a question, why are there no videos talking about seat material? I've read somewhere that seats MUST be molded NOT cut out, they also must be molded with different firmness levels to support and reduce coccyx pressure points. Some orthopedic chairs even have cut out holes for that purpose (some are cut out but upholstered). How ergonomic are mesh seats? Thank you!

[@OlivierGirard]

@@neowild8102 Hey! The question of the fabric is a great one. I discussed it yesterday with a chair manufacturer that I help designing an innovative model. There's a huge complexity here, because you can't really split the issue of the fabric from the issue of the foam and of its shape. If the chair is very firm and cut in such a way that it stays away from your body, you won't feel the same as if it's memory foam that dives you into the chair... Very honestly, I do get a wet shirt from sitting in the car, but never from sitting on my chair. I don't live in a tropical country but my belief is that you should focus on the quality of the pelvic support before anything else...

[@MathJav]

I have the same chair. Is it ok to touch the shoulder blades in the seat when using the forward tilt function?

[@OlivierGirard]

This is a very good and accurate question, Matheus. It is true that the space between your shoulder blades and the backrest depends on the shape of the latter, as well as on its angle. In the forward tilt function of the Aeron, there’s of course less space than when the backrest is more back. However, there will be no pressure (that’s the difference between pressure and contact). Check out the video that I link at the end of this one to answer exactly for you. To cut a long story short: when you let your shoulders loose, your elbows should be very slightly in front of your hip joints. From my experience, even with the forward tilt on the Aeron, this implies that there should be a very thin gap behind your shoulder blades. Another interesting video you can see on the topic discusses the relationship between this and your armrests: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4vUh4N4mrSbsKM

[@abdellahsalmi4781]

i just wanna ask you about kinnarps chair i have one the same as yours but with no head rest and i don't have the place for it in the top is there two types of chaires ones with head rest others no or what ?

[@healthiswealth9520]

Hi, Can you please help me??? I am experiencing different kind if problem from many days. If I sit on a chair for long time (around an hour), I get pain around my navel region and lower abdomen (not inside stomach but on the stomach muscles). I have tried lot of stuff but nothing is helping me.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey! Sorry, I forgot to answer to your comment on the other video!! Can you have a look at these pain patterns and tell me if you recognize any of them: www.triggerpoints.net/symptom/lower-abdominal-pain ?

[@kingsaxon]

What kind of chair would be the best for this kind of sitting? £1100 budget

[@OlivierGirard]

that's +/- the budget of my own chair : kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2PaqJ9sj9Sbgsk ;)

[@antonius4187]

What do you think about duo back chairs?

[@OlivierGirard]

Great question. I have a dual opinion on them: - from a biomechanical perspective, they can make sense if well designed. This is because the goal isn't to support the spine itself, but rather the pelvis and in part. the SIPS, which are on the side of the spine. That's why I helped one of my suppliers design a chair that has less pressure in the centre, and more on the side; - however, everything that deviates too much from the standard (incl. HAG Capisco, saddle chair, etc.) has a lower acceptance. Hence, these are individual chairs (not collective ones, i.e. chairs that you should buy for your 500 colleagues) that should be purchased AFTER a 1 to 2 weeks test. I have ordered one 2 times, for people who had severe spinal injury and couldn't bear pressure on the vertebrae.

[@antonius4187]

@@OlivierGirard Thanks for the fast response . I was sitting 6 years in a markus ikea chair and most of the time I was slouching and had bad posture. I have no particular problems with my spine although my pelvis is shortened. Would you recommend rather a duo back or a net back with adjustable Lumbar support? I was testing the xilum g and xilium mesh from rohde&grahl (nowy styl) ,both were comfortable, but im not quite sure what would be better on the long run.

[@IrrationalDelusion]

@@antonius4187 Nowy styl? These buffoons probably don’t care about putting proper density foam in chair, nor do they have advanced understanding of body curvature. I’ve read reviews for Nowy Styl and they’re garbage. Funny that it’s name sounds so pathetic like it’s literally “new chair”.

[@IrrationalDelusion]

@@OlivierGirard With that interesting experience you could make video about choosing chairs in Europe at the different prices. For people who don’t have enough to buy 500$+ ergonomic chairs, what would be best bets and why each option would be good and bad? For example some chairs might be already expensive yet a total trap without enough support on the seat causing pain in 1 hour. IKEA “Hatjeffal” is literally chair that has ergonomic features but has no foam or other materials that make it suitable for 12 hours work day behind PC. The thing is you can’t just try chair for 1-2 hours in the shop without looking inadequate. Speaking of saddle chair btw, it’s crazy that people think changing position and getting pain all the time is actually ergonomic.

[@JakiStow]

Great video :) Indeed it's not comfortable to switch posture after years (even decades) of sitting back into the chairs. How long does it typically take for someone to get used to it? Let's say for someone with a full-time desk job, a gaming hobby, and average physical fitness 🥲

[@OlivierGirard]

Probably 2-4 weeks... depending on how good your chair is, mainly. On a great chair, my clients usually feel the difference immediately, and it takes them a few weeks to make it a new habit.

[@isaacogunmuko3947]

What about Multi function Ergonomic Task Chairs. That allow you adjust height and angle of the back rest. With a Multi function task chair you can start of in that forward position your demonstrate and move the back rest forward until it touches your back. That way you would stay in that forward position. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6rYqnmwm5eZj6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqKyeadogbSUnsk

[@OlivierGirard]

Sure. The chair in your first video is probably from the 90's, though. Here is my guide to buying a great chair: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68

[@Gitara6060]

Hello Olivier I love your videos so far but I'd like to ask you something a little bit more specific. I've been suffering from what I think is migraines since a very young age. My migraines happen the most often while exercising (I play tennis), sometimes as soon as I wake up and sometimes happen randomly. I know my posture is not great as I have round shoulders which I'm working on fixing from your videos and I do not breathe fully whilst exercising (tension headache?) I was just wondering if you know how I could prevent headaches or reduce the pain? My headaches usually start in the back of my neck just under the skull and they often go to my eyes while having the feeling of head or temples pulsating. It would be great if you could help me as I've been suffering for migraines for more than 15 years and I'm 25.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hi Jakub! Thanks for your appreciation!! Migraines are a complex topic, because they can have different origins. However, I often observe that migraines due to the sternocleidomastoid are often overlooked by the medical world: have a look at this video and tell me if you recognize the pain pattern: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6rHeoaHj5ZsarM... if so, there is something to do in terms of forward head posture: kzbin.info/www/bejne/npWtYntjYtqEpKs. Let me know if these 2 videos ring a bell, and we'll see how I can help from there...

[@Gitara6060]

@@OlivierGirard Hello Olivier, thanks for your reply I really appreciate it! Regarding the videos you've linked the second one is definitely something I recognize, not so much regarding the first one though. Also I have found a video of yours regarding splenius and that one shows the exact pain patterns I have been suffering from.

[@OlivierGirard]

@@Gitara6060 Yep, splenius is another candidate I had in mind. If you look at the posture on the cover picture, it is one of the many variants of forward head posture... so I thing you're on the right track ;)

[@Gitara6060]

@@OlivierGirard thanks a lot Olivier! I'll just keep on exercising, give myself a few more months and if nothing helps, I think the next step will be a chiropractor. Thanks a lot for you help!

[@michaellieberman9419]

How do we feel about leaning back in the chair with a keyboard tray like the mention in this video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJOtfGd8itWWask

[@OlivierGirard]

I feel grrrr :) Look at the position at 1'02. Take a straight line from the lower back to the base of the neck, and another straight line along the neck... and you recognize forward head posture! In this position, her normal line of sight would be directed to the ceiling...

[@IrrationalDelusion]

Surprising to see “Ergonomic” brand to feature someone sitting so painfully. Like I can’t even imagine forcing body to sustain such position, with arms not supported?! Gravity will pull them down and cause strain.

[@etr1us]

why do i need those overpriced chairs that are designed to support me if i dont use those $$$ technologies lol ? i will just buy cheap chair which get the same job done better and cheaper

[@IrrationalDelusion]

Strongly disagree, we'll see who was right in 10-30 years of active pc use. :D

[@OlivierGirard]

On this channel, I try to bring logical reasonings based on anatomy and mechanics (i.e. not opinions or personal experiences) to explain my recommendations. That's precisely to avoid the discussions like: I agree, I don't, I believe, I don't, etc. So to be honest, there's nothing I can / want to answer to comments that don't bring facts, reasonings and science to the debate...

[@IrrationalDelusion]

@@OlivierGirard While being factual, science is also opinion. Opinions I bring are backed by me sitting for 5-10 hours painlessly with little or sometimes no breaks. And not having pain afterwards. The way you suggest to force positions is very strange. Especially the shoulder blades. My mousing arm rests firmly against the backrest, and back of shoulder also must touch the backrest for gravity not to pull it while resting wrist on table. I appreciate your perspective, but there are different ones in this complex world. Why? For example with leg deformity anyone would have to sit angled, or the feet won’t properly fixate on the floor. With leg being offset, it influences entire body position, making it absolutely impossible to sustain straight legs like you were suggesting without pain. Can’t force straight something that is angled by nature at this state.

[@jackboxer7537]

​@@IrrationalDelusion Your username is accurate. You are going to develop SO many musculoskeletal disorders in your 30's-40's if you keep up your strange, harmful postural antics.