How To Solve The Cost Of Biking Crisis? | Dirt Shed Show 462

[@gmbn]

Like this comment if you're team Martyn!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I voted for you.

[@rodmarker2071]

was with you but I live in Europe so Bosch ......

[@thomasp9783]

If the local bike shop can't sell bikes anymore, the are going broke. It's already hard enough to make money as a small shop. A big part of this, is because of brands like canyon who cut out the middleman.

[@levimaxwell7745]

Price point is key

[@flipdowle6985]

Vitus has the correct method. Great quality designed bikes at a decent price

[@gw8855]

It’s not just the bike manufacturers that have to lower their prices. It’s also all the bike component manufacturers that would need to follow suit.

[@willking6915]

Agreed. A pair of decent Fox air forks cost like 500 quid. It’s an absolute joke

[@kinaceman]

@@willking6915 more like £1100 ridiculous!!!

[@_Zane__]

Guy spends 14k on his bicycle and then complains 😂 well he's the reason they're charging $14000

[@garycockbain6506]

😂😂😂😂

[@JohnHarvey-ip5jh]

14 k gets you a jig and a cracking welder

[@andywright1634]

Yes the bikes are bloody expensive.....but you don't have to buy them. Hence me still riding my 2010 bike [for now]. A legitimate gripe is that the "average" price is now double what it was 10 or so years ago in real terms. So the cheaper and mid range builds are a lot more than they "should" be. If the bike industry goes back to those standards, then they will still sell mega buck expensive models to those who want to shell the cash, but bread and butter bikes are more affordable to the average rider who wants a decent build bike.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I would buy another CR250 and put some more bling on it 😂

[@jmo2752]

@@andywright1634 the problem is, there are loads of great 'do it all' bikes out there around $1000-2000, but everyone [on KZbin] thinks that you need XT or AXS rather than Deore spec drivetrains, and that Rockshox Silver 35s are 'rubbish' and you need a bike with Fox 38s...

[@whateverisavailabley]

Bike industry has done very well telling consumers what they need, instead of consumers knowing the difference between what they need and want.

[@tl924]

Bingo! It's all marketing and consumerism.

[@gmbn]

Like this comment if you're team Blake!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I voted for you

[@dirtcheapdownhill2848]

I'd buy a Blake bespoke bike all day long

[@MITCHYMITCH555]

Blake’s Bespoke Bikes would be pretty sweet! (If actually affordable!)

[@expresslux6942]

Still waiting for Blake to build a full sus

[@BrianRodriguez25]

Blakes gets my vote, but I would buy brand Martyn.

[@dunkie976]

Twenty something years ago I owned a boutique MTB bike shop my cheapest bike was £600 and my top end was about £2k for top end oranges, specializeds and Kleins. Then the internet happened and prices plummeted, I couldn't compete and folded, I came back to the sport and bought a basic orange 5 a few years later and had to pay £2500 for a bike that I used to sell for £1800 and it has just escalated from there the prices are crazy these days.

[@zoubtube]

It's not just the bikes and components that are expensive. The cost of maintaining them is significantly higher than ever before, especially for full-suspension bikes. Full Fork and shock rebuilds alone are ~$200 each, and depending on how much you ride, this might need to be done once a year. Most people won't maintain regular services for their bikes mainly because of the costs and/or intimidation. I started a KZbin channel to help people with the more involved services (ex: full shock and fork service, droppers, etc.) based on friend requests. I primarily started it to help ride buddies and locals around me who had provided these services for free for years (It's therapy for me). Since COVID started, it's been harder to do so, so one of them brought up the idea of posting videos so they could do it on their own. It's good to see that they've helped many around the world, especially those who live in regions with limited service resources.

[@Kevin_Aus]

My local shop here in Australia charges $110AUD / £57 GBP / €66 EURO / $72 USD PER HOUR !!! That might be reasonable for people with 5k bikes but for everyone else its robbery. And if you bring in something that only takes 5mins they still bill you for 15-30mins as that is their 'minimum' fee.

[@zoubtube]

@@Kevin_Aus My experience,,, Even those with $5K plus bikes don't maintain them anywhere near as much as they should due to the costs, especially over time. Many, if not most, honestly believe they are set them and forget them type devices. Then when the time comes to fully service them and they realize its $500 plus to fully service a high cost bike (including full shock and fork service) they just push it out to next year, then the year after and on and on. Modern bikes are expensive to maintain, learning to do much, if not all, of the service on your own will save significant dollars over time, even with buying the tools to do so. More importantly, you will know that your bike is in top shape every season 👍

[@MrAimMDMA]

@@zoubtube as someone with multiple "5k" bikes, who maintains my own bikes, my ohlins never needed to be serviced every 50hrs, thats just a stupid requirement, im suppose to service my suspension every month?

[@zoubtube]

@@MrAimMDMA That all depends. A 50 or so-hour service is nothing more than refreshing the grease and oil in the lowers. It's quick and easy, you can inspect stanchions, bushings, etc, and the return on the effort is big. Does it have to be done "exactly" every 50 hours? No! 50 hours is just a general recommendation for basic service in the industry. Ultimately, it really depends on your riding conditions and mileage, but it's easier to track hours than mileage for most people. If you ride in very dusty or wet and muddy conditions, or are constantly bombing it on downhills (or just plain live in moab, (that red dust gets into EVERTHING!)), then it only helps to service them regularly. The irony here is that you mention ohlins, and their recommended service intervals are as follows: "Lowers every 30hrs, full service every 100hrs or 1 x annually" They have a much more aggressive recommended service intervals than fox and rockshox, (they also charge up to $300 for a full service per product at the factory). Riding 50 hours in a month means you're basically riding a minimum of 2 hours a day, 6 days a week. If you're able to do that on ALL your bikes "each" month, then more power to you my man. Let's trade jobs! 👍I also have multiple bikes, and I DO ride about that many hours a month as I help maintain the longest trail in our region, and there is NO WAY I can get anywhere near those hours on just two of my bikes per month (never mind the rest of them). My Ripley goes through the most service, which is pretty much one full service a year and 2-3 basic services depending on the year. The rest of the bikes get a full service once a year, whether they need it or not. Reality is that the VAST majority of people barely ride 50 hours in a season, which is about 4 hours a week, for about 4 months, and unfortunately for many of them, that's if they are lucky. Most people I know would Love to ride more, but have very busy lives as most of them have kids.

[@ex3dy813]

​​@@zoubtube What 😨 I guess I should be doing mine every 2 weeks 😩 I ride in all weather, 1hr a day commuting to work and back, 1hr before work with my dogs and a quick lap around my local trails which is around 45-1hr depending on if its busy or not. That's 3hrs a day 4 days week, 2hours a day Monday, Saturday and Sunday. Both Sunday and Saturday I go for a brisk 25 mile ride takes me around 2hrs. I also ride half hour each day picking my daughter up from school with her bike, so that's another 4½hrs of riding, so all in all that's 26.5 hours a week of riding. And that's IF i stick to my normal routine. Last Friday it took me nearly two hours to get home as I decided to take a scenic route home 😅. So 50hrs service must be targeted those that ride hard at bike parks. I ride a status 160 23 model

[@mtb246]

Polygon Bikes is doing the right thing with their current T Series of bikes. Great entry price point with the T6, right up to the just released T9.

[@DB-sd3cw]

Yeah but you pay for it by having an extremely heavy yet fragile frame with overly complex kinematics that are a nightmare to service.

[@lukemtb6800]

We have bikes for every price range. There's entry level bikes in most local bike shops for sub £500 that will get you out riding. The problem is people want a factory race spec bike when they work in Tesco on minimum wage. I think brands like yt, Vitus and nukeproof are affordable for the spec. I personally want a bike that's reliable, looks and rides well.

[@krishollyman143]

tbh this is the way I'm thinking,,loads of bikes about at affordable prices ,80% of people wouldn't need anything over 2k max for the style or level they are biking at

[@erfrenli3331]

​@@krishollyman143 My gf is still riding my +10 years old 300€ hardtail and it's more than enough to follow me on shared trails and go sightseeing which is what most people do with an MTB anyways. I see people riding more insecure and slower than her on easier trails with bikes triple the price.

[@zfiddy]

These 2 are the best together! Best hosts!

[@mattcoop989]

I personally think that the difference in price between parts is crazy, and yes I know there may be performance advantages such as weight saving. However a brand X ascend dropper post does the same job as a fox transfer. Companies have taken advantage of the competitiveness of humans to have the newest and best options available

[@Tony.795]

Mtb technology has peaked since the early 20s in my opinion. There's very little gain for the cost to be had compared to a decade earlier where the industry made some huge leaps. But still there must be some people that buy bikes for over 10k every other year.

[@pododododoehoh3550]

@@Tony.795 Its these channels, there is so much to a bike, and you're wanting to get something that's good for you money, and these channels are constantly hyping up everything and spitting jargon, which doesn't help consumers know what they should be looking to buy without massive research into the hobby.

[@MrShotlighter]

Martyn missed the third ( & most likely) possibility re opening Schrodinger's cat box - that the cat is absolutely bloody furious!

[@_Zane__]

My big complaint about bike industry is replacement parts are expensive and MSRPs are often double or triple of costs. It's not economical to fix or upgrade certain bikes

[@_Inferis]

They can also be really hard to get hold of.

[@LEL7567-ABCDEF]

the dtswiss rarchet if £100. so sad

[@TheSorrowedMan]

I recently got back my stolen hardtail (yes i know, what are the odds) and i'm fixing it up. At the moment i think i'm at about 500€ in parts, for a hard tail that cost me 1300€ new in 2019. And i'm doing the work my self AND it's budget parts...

[@_Zane__]

@@TheSorrowedMan yeah it's brutal

[@neilstearman143]

Martins idea is great but sold via a shop. The shop needs bike sales to survive. Also via the shop you have easy access to warranties and assembly help. Also most bike shops offer first free servicing after purchase. Cut the bike shop out, an most will fold.

[@vipergtsrgt1]

There are so many pieces to this bike cost issue, but I wonder if the solution could be simplified a bit. I have a 2018 Giant Trance 3. I bought it for $1800 lightly used (new was $2300 in 2018) and have enjoyed it for 6 years. I've been slowly collecting parts for a Shimano XT 12 speed conversion over time while enjoying the bike as-is. The bike shops keep trying to sell me a new bike instead, saying it's a better deal in the long run. Everything on my bike is new or rebuilt except the frame and dropper post. I've spent $1700. I could upgrade the fork and still be under the cost of an entry level new bike. We don't always need brand new. There's nothing wrong with keeping a bike and making it better.

[@SergejGrabun]

Canyon and Radon are doing it right (and many other doing this type of sales). Very competitive prices, direct to customer sales + service available in partner shops. Definitely team Martyn on this. I have tried 5-6k worth Carbon Santa Cruz in Serfaus bike park and vs my Radon for just about 2.2k - I did not see what it is there to pay for double the price. Nothing was better 2 times, nothing felt worth that money.

[@mtbrider8286]

I personally think YT has nailed it with their business model. I have purchased 2 bikes from them and my most recent was an e-bike, $3,400 shipped! Now I can upgrade the components that I feel are important to me. More bike and better components for the money with them.

[@MegaJacko2010]

Thanks boys, implemented the “bike feet” idea. Thanks for everything you do, keep up the good work 👍 stay rubber side down 👍

[@belgianguitarist7503]

Thanks for the Super Nice! Holding hands made it extra special! 😁 Cheers from Belgium!

[@tSobota]

Team Martyn - a far easier scaleable business model with the possibility to expand partnerships all over the world. Blake's idea sounds more like a side hustle/ RnD idea

[@floof_ball2588]

So, a Canyon? The problem with direct-to-consumer is the customer has to deal with many of the issues; there is no middleman (bike shop) to help them. If you bring your canyon bike to a local bike shop, they won't be able to get that canyon-specific part. You can't go to your local shop if you have any warranty issues. When buying a bike from a bike shop, you don't just get the bike; for example, at the shop where I work, you get free tune-ups for a year, that's free $80 unlimited tune-ups for a whole year! So, at the end of the day, maybe you would be saving money in the short term, but there are definitely trade-offs, more than just the few that I have mentioned.

[@MrChadLedford]

​​@@floof_ball2588Agreed. Canyon frame quality is terrible and so is their customer service.

[@bmallory]

Or a commencal

[@tomvarley52]

Direct sales is part of the solution. Strip out the distributor margin. The ready availability of finance is what allowed bike companies to price gouge, that finance is more expensive now so people are being more savvy with their cash

[@garygilbert1127]

Agreed but having spare frame parts readily available is important , I recently had to wait over six weeks on a rocker, thankfully I have two full sussers.

[@jmo2752]

Direct Sales is also why traditional bike shops are struggling... not only are they missing out on the initial profit between wholesale and retail, but they are essentially being forced by manufacturers to stock countless models in all colours and sizes, and pay for [town centre] showroom space to display those... whereas the Direct sales retailer can keep a huge inventory in their shipping boxes in a warehouse in the middle of nowhere. I would also suspect that human nature being what it is, a bike dealer is likely to be far more inclined to go that 'extra mile' for you with regard to a warranty claim if you had purchased the bike from them in the first place, than if you bring in some random brand with which they are unfamiliar... and I fear all this business model (which Martyn is proposing) would do is mean we see an overall rise in the cost of servicing/repairs from bricks-and-mortar bike shops, as that will essentially be their only form of income now.

[@tomvarley52]

Yeah I appreciate that the boutique bike shops would suffer but my local bike shop is booming cos the mechanic/owner is really knowledgeable. Only this week he saved me £800 on some DJ pikes by converting my old U-turn pike's to duel air for £70. Your guess as to why 26" DJ forks start at £800 is as good as mine

[@Kevin_Aus]

The financing is absolutely stuffed. If I buy a bike with financing (Afterpay/Clearpay etc..) the financing company may take up to 5% as comission. But if I ask the shop to give me a 5% discount if I pay upfront or in cash I get laughed out the door. Shops would rather give that money to afterpay than their own customers, they deserve to get shafted.

[@Kevin_Aus]

@@jmo2752 , Mate you almost had it. You say "Direct Sales is also why traditional bike shops are struggling..." but then go on to detail on of the real reasons shops are struggling - they are getting shafted by their business model of manufacturer -> importer -> distributor -> retailer. Shops are struggling because they are still holding on to a dying business model that is antiquated. There are a few shops that have completed moved away from sales and only focus on service and rather than their prices increasing they are actually booming and doing incredibly well. They have cheaper service prices than other shops as they benefit from the economies of scale that come with focusing only on servicing and everyone with a direct to customer bike goes there because they are brand agnostic.

[@plainuser48596]

It's both bike and components manufacturers, and their prices boil down to the investors expecting ever-growing profits. "You didn't make more money than last year? Failure!" Likely that is the main reason why the prices keep rising, this is also likely the main reason why all the "new stuff" is so much more expensive - because that's the point where it is easiest to trick customers into thinking that the price jump is justified. "Oh, this is 4x as expensive as the other top end because it has a battery in it", "This is ebike it has to cost 3 times as much as would normally bike with the same spec because it has a battery and engine in it". I get it, it is expensive to develop new things, it is expensive to sell new things when there is not much volume. But that is also not an excuse for overpricing other segments or creating artificial segments

[@jonm7272]

Schrodinger's cat... You missed out the randomly triggered release of the poison in the box. Because the trigger is random you can't tell whether or not it went off until you open the box.

[@davidsuzukiispolpot]

I think the problem is that we can't really tell what the bikes are like for our use until we buy them. We listen to reviewers but a lot of time the top sponsored guys in the industry are not really doing what we are doing. If there was a good way to demo bikes, we might find that much less expensive bikes are great for our use. But where would the money for the MFR come in that case? Why spend money on demos to sell less expensive bikes? That would not happen.

[@andymoss4285]

I’ve demoed propain , yt, specialised and canyon at my local trails. Orbea had some demo days but I couldn’t get there. It is possible but can be a pain.

[@davidsuzukiispolpot]

@@andymoss4285 That is great. I took advantage of every demo program in my area for a few months before I purchased my bicycle in 2019 but then I thought the programs were all gone after the COVID shutdowns. Glad to see it is back. I recommend demos for everyone. If such programs are available, I will not buy another bicycle without a good demo.

[@DG-tf9rp]

A bike needs to have standard parts. A company like Fezzari has all the parts that most all bike shops will carry. A bike with proprietary parts are part of the problem for the high cost.

[@imspyingonyou2243]

Just ride old bikes and have fun. Any wheel size you like. Full, hardtail, full rigid. If you're not a racer it doesn't matter.

[@davidfletcher6836]

As a golfer who mountain bikes it’s exactly the same in golf equipment top end equipment costs top money. Unfortunately any marketplace is driven by the consumer and when people pay the big bucks it drives the general cost up. If people don’t pay or buy the high price stuff naturally the price has to be reduced.

[@JeffMTBinVA]

Martyn's idea is the feasible one. I'm no economist but my 2 cents. Have to have good aluminum frames with UDH made likely in Taiwan and have enough made that you are getting them at a low price. Have one build with good to mid components and also just frames for those that want something different. Lastly it has to be sold at a low profit margin. Think volume over getting every cent you can. Direct to consumer is a must. For those saying shops will go broke from not selling bikes, they will be okay, they make way more from service than sales.

[@arnasg2230]

Prices of bikes and components have gotten truly insane. Yes it is nice to have cutting edge tech. But it is ridiculous that you have to pay as much as for a used car or a motorcycle. At the end it is just a bike

[@MarcusOliver2006]

Happy with my 2018 Tallboy C. It will see me out. £5k back then but could never find £8k for the current equivalent that is 2kg heavier. Performance gains are so small nowadays IMO

[@newttella1043]

There's not great value in today's bike. $8000 and no carbon wheels!

[@nicklowe536]

Brand Blake. The only issue with Bike Martyn is the stock control. How many of each size and spec do you order. Your cost base has shot up recently for shipping

[@andrewsouthern3517]

The hardest bit about the cost of bikes is im extremely passionate about biking n I’ve done it for 4 years and I’ve paid for everything myself but I can’t afford a full sus at the age of 15 when im working 3 jobs. They seriously need to lower prices or people will stop buying them

[@masaharumorimoto4761]

Just ordered new drivetrain parts for a 2018 Norco Storm, nothing fancy, basic shop bike but the replacement parts were almost the cost of a new bike... silly, it's just a cassette, chain, cranks, BB, cables, pads, all the good stuff lol.

[@callumjohnson9433]

Be great to see you guys get a budget full sus to show people what you get for your money and test it then upgrade it over a period of time to show people just how good a cheaper bike could be by replacing components when they can. A polygon or lower end vitus or similar

[@aliancemd]

2:46 Lamborghini has been sold to VW. Almost all the “top end” car manufacturers had to go through the same thing as bike manufacturers, when the economy slows down, they’ve got problems and have to sell to manufacturers that make cars for the masses. The problem is that even Canyon starts price gauging, removing the powermeter in gravel bikes and asking on top 1k-2k more euros than their road alternative(easier to compare these two) - we are not talking about 10K bikes but “low/mid end”.

[@philippaceacedo1310]

my bikes frame is from Taiwan (Dabomb Sentinel 29r HT) with m7100 components, Fox Grip2 36 29r boost Fork, e13 cockpit, DaBomb Rocket Dropper Post with Remote, Duroc 35 rim, muc off tubeless valves, m8100 1by crankset, maxxis tires, decathlon saddle, spank grips...i love it so much

[@dougnico2492]

Nothing wrong with Taiwanese frames

[@aleixbartomeus4135]

Hello everybody. What have worked for me has been being a mechanic, and wallapop. I can find really good bikes from like 2 to 6 years ago at very good prices, and also i can build them by pieces up to a beast bike for a substantially lower price than a basic new build. Of course you have to account for the wear on these second hand bikes and some times you can get a little nasty surprise, but so far it has worked really good for me and i am able to try lots of diferent geometries, suspension systems without having to sell my liver. And here, if you are a small bike brand, i would definetly go for team Blake. If you are a medium size brand trying to survive in these times, i am then with Martyn. Have a nice day 🤘

[@davehunt6998]

I know its NOT the EMBN show but I Think I'm with Martin on this one Frame and motor from abroad LBS for servicing, I`v just built a low spec deore, Rock shox spec EMTB for 3K. So you could sell for 3.5-4K

[@dailacey89]

I'd go down a similar route to planet X. Direct to customer, Base model builds with options to upgrade online. The cost of the bike will be as you wish. Frame only, with parts supplied so you can build at home or take to your local shop, or charge a small fee for a full build delivered. 3 bikes, hard tail, trail bike and an enduro. All available with the spec you want.

[@tooltechstw]

I like the Atherton bike building approach... The tooling to produce the frame looks to be much lower cost. The bladder molds used for Carbon frames are very expensive and limit the size choices. With the Atherton method one can build Carbon, Aluminum, Steel or Titanium all with the same junctions. Additive manufacturing processes make sense for bicycles, IMO.

[@TheEventHorse]

I’m surprised more brands aren’t selling frame sets. Bike parts last a decent amount of time, and most riders enjoy upgrading their bikes, so if you could easily swap out your frame (and maybe forks) every say 2 years. You could afford a new bike every few years, getting the latest updates in tech, geometry, etc, without wasting money on new wheels tyres etc. currently I’d love to change my ebike which is 18 months old but it’s pointless as the cost is unjustifiable. If I was starting a bike brand I’d sell ebike frame sets and offer custom full builds to order. My friends and I used to buy and build this way back in the eighties when we were riding BMX.

[@itsallaeffingjoke]

The consumers have created this problem. There are several mountain bike brands that offer capable, quality bikes with decent build kits. Marin, Polygon, Cube and Vitus are all great low-cost, value bikes. But no one wants to buy them because they're seen as cheap, despite their quality. People complain that bikes are too expensive but then only want to buy the expensive bikes?

[@garygilbert1127]

You could add half of the yt range to that list, when you add up the price of all the components the frame is basically free.

[@marcalvarez4890]

I did that equation on my old carbon trek...and yes, i got the frame free, essentially.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

Too many people think they need the features of a pro bike. There are lots of choices of bikes with good features and price. That said, if the complainers think you're going to get a good bike for under $1k, you're going to have to give up a lot of functionality

[@ctsingletrack]

I'm overjoyed with the prices right now. I just bought a Marin Riftzone for 45% off a few months back. I'm also seeing Ibis Ripmos selling for 25% less than I payed back in 2019. That's actually amazing considering the inflation that's happened since then.

[@jokermtb]

Schroedenger's cat - references the duality of a quantum particle like an electron. Bikes are crazy expensive, and I really can't justify buying a spendy new bike. I've been mtb'ing since the late 80's and have had all kinds of cheap and expensive bikes over the decades. In 2019, I bought a 'demo/rental' aluminum framed GT Sensor Comp from a bike dealership 1000 miles from where I live. As they were primarily a Cannondale dealer, the GT was only rented out 5 times, and was essentially barely worn in. I bought the bike for $1500 shipped to my front door. I still am riding and racing (a few enduro races) this bike today, and still love riding it. Of course I've replaced nearly everything over the years (except for the cranks, headset, and rear mech), and have a bike that is incredibly dialed in for my riding locale and riding style (side hits, mellow jumps, wheelies). As much as the allure of getting a new bike is always itching, I still don't NEED to replace my bike that I've been enjoying for so many years. Bikes are so good these days that buying a new bike is not as big a deal or performance upgrade as it used to be (before modern geometry hit the scene). Only thing that will put me off this bike is a frame failure, or I suddenly win the lottery!

[@MTNMAX88]

The two best and most entertaining people on gmbn. I love it

[@joeroche552]

Guys for next (well this week) you got to talk about warners theridecompanion vid. He’s a such a legend and more so for baring all online, in these days where chaps especially are dealing with mental health issues I think it’s important to give props for sharing

[@Opethjunky613]

I got my slash 9.9 gen 5 from a trek clearance center marked down from $9000 to $3500 last year while I was on a trip. They even let me trade my old bike in for a bit more off the top. There are a bunch of deals out there.

[@gravelbikemark]

Martyn's model but where you sell direct and then you select groupset, frame and wheels and hten its shipped to a LBS and built by them.

[@riggedupgaming]

both of these ideas are genuis and i would love to see them happen!!

[@KuroSanArts]

I reckon a joint effort called Blartyn Bikes is in order! The only thing I don't like about ordering online only, is I can't just go and browse them and try them out for size etc. I've bought bikes that I didn't originally intend to buy after going to try out another brand I had my eye on, but tried another few different types while in the store. I would rather pay a little extra for a more personal experience in a bike shop, than have to deal with one of our amazingly efficient and careful courier companies who totally wouldn't just leave the bike on my doorstep or bend the frame in transport!

[@Dawes-Engineering]

I would buy a Martin bike, but only in the sales to get the best price. And, nine boxes - classic Blake. Keep up the good work Gmbn, best on show on screen.

[@DeHa-pn6qp]

I think a lot of customers actually do not need such expensive bikes as they buy. Often a lower priced model would do the job just as well.

[@MTNMAX88]

Polygon is doing an excellent job of providing very good bikes for affordable prices

[@PewDeSkunk]

Came here to say the same!

[@anthonynazzal1958]

Also, it should be added that the direct to consumer brands tend to offer cheaper prices but the downside is that it’s next to impossible to demo or throw a leg over any of them to even get a remote idea of you will even like the bike. It’s a hard pill to swallow to buy a bike, set it up, ride it and return it if it doesn’t suite you. I am in the market right now and would love to sit in or ride a Fezarri but I can’t anywhere close to where I live. So I sadly have to automatically cross it off the list simply due to logistics. So, I’m stuck with only being able to consider more expensive brands that my local shops carry….

[@markappleyard8467]

While I have 2 hand built bikes (in Halifax 🍊nothing wrong with the suspension 😊) I agree with Martin as the greater impact on the wider market is a more affordable mass market offer is the best way ultimately to drive more cash into the sport. But also to drive average prices down.

[@Unite.The.Kingdom]

I thought it was a tampon in a bag 😂😂😂

[@CoasterJames]

Hope you’re feeling better soon. I had an episode of sciatica a while back. The dr wanted to prescribe me a pill. I was like @&)& off. Saw a chiropractor and fixed in one session. I now firmly believe in paying to see an osteopath or physio to get you back on track asap

[@tonkshred]

Love Martins angle !! I remember in the 90s… I purchased an Ibis alibi with xt/ King components- above mid range stuff, for $2499 from a local bike shop. I know inflation has gotten insane the past few years , but 2019 bikes were already ridiculous and inflation had nothing to do with it…. Bikes online sells “cheap” newish stuff, as does marin - the big companies should off more under $3k decent builds…. I’ve been riding 26” vee braked old xc bikes till this year, jumping in this future stuff… Like analog motorcycles now 😅

[@PseudoThief]

What the heck's an analog motorcycle?

[@tonkshred]

@@PseudoThief its like... a motocycle, but without a motor :)

[@NoggintheNog37]

The biggest issue for getting cheaper biking is the focus on expensive stuff everywhere. Yes, Sram AXS, XTR and wireless droppers are fantastic. Buts lets be real, for the majority of riders you find at any bikepark in the UK, me included, Deore does absolutely everything we could ever need. If all everyone sees in mags and so in is carbon frames and high end gear, then this is what becomes expected from the community. Time to normalise basic stuiff, because today, its better performing than the XTR stuff was when I started biking 20 years ago. Vitus hardtail with an 11 speed deore setup and a half decent air fork at £600 is enjoyable, cheap biking, add another £500 for a full suss and that is where we find value still.

[@SethCousin]

Just do whatever YT does! High quality, well specced bikes at unmatched prices.

[@markianross]

Bit confused about the guy you said "had" to buy a £14k S-Works. Like there's no other option for cheaper bikes. Then compared pretty much the most expensive MTB to an average price motorbike. I've had a look and motorbikes go up to about £50k so that's what it should be compared to.

[@armanrivera4116]

Been wanting to buy a new bike for years.. but i couldn't accept the prices that the bikes i wanted came in.. until i saw 45% off! Finally pulled the trigger.

[@MTBPerspective]

I got my Giant Trance X E+ in Nov 2022. There have been sales since but even with those it is still worth a lot more than the car I haul it around with. Priorities...

[@TheRickyevans]

Mart I got half a car washing sponge stuffed up under my seat , great for stopping off and cleaning bike by a river on way home or when your covered in dog mess out on the trails plus also stops the cold balls

[@RSVDAN]

The industry has a lot to answer for regarding cost of bikes these days! Back in 2018 I bought a solid bikes strike WC edition, they only built a limited amount to the spec it had and I never have seen another around. It was Specced with magura mt7 brakes, bos idylle rare fcv forks (the latest and greatest at the time) bos void shock, sram x01dh groupset and all the reverse components carbon trickery. It was a bombproof bike, took ALOT of abuse and never let me down. This bike direct from the solid factory in germany cost me £3,500, with delivery... now the forks shock and brakes at the time would have cost me 3k to buy at retail prices. Fully Specced as it was, to build myself the bike would have cost me just over 6k. So with this in mind, solid bikes selling a 6k bike for 3.5k, how were they able to keep the costs this low? And whatever their methods, why can't current manufacturers do this?

[@NanoDex]

I didn't expect quantum physics in this weeks episode haha

[@mattgies]

Still didn't get any! Martyn left out the physics part that's the whole point of the thought experiment.

[@TonyStark-ik9em]

So, word is that Nukeproof is up for grabs, the opportunity right there for Blake to start his own bike-company on a well loved brand!

[@etherealicer]

So Martyn wants to re-invent Decatlon? I mean there are still decent bikes available for a fair price. It's just the more recognized brands that have gone crazy with their prices.

[@jonj-lab4633]

First thing the bike industry could do is speak to Joe Murray. A mountain bike OG who's done great stuff with the Voodoo bikes, which have an excellent smiles per miles over cost score (my mate has a Hoodoo that's 12 years old now & it's holding up good). Martyn's idea is good, the Taiwanese are fantastic engineers & manfacturers. But! I would sell online through a click and collect system, where you'd partner up with local bike shops, where the bike would be delivered and set up. You could even load a bit more on the price and include a year's servicing at that dealer, which would help establish relationships between customer and shop. My mate works in a bike shop, about 50% of their workshop work at the moment is properly setting up bikes people have bought from manufacturers who sell online. He tells me he sees a lot of elementary assembly/set-up fails. Especially in E-bikes. At the end of the day, you trust your life to your bike when out riding. I wanna see any bike I'm gonna cane before parting with cash, let alone riding it. And there would be nothing stopping said bike shop from acting as a delivery portal/service point for Team Blake's product - there's always people who want something a bit different - look at the waiting list for Morgan cars.

[@dougnico2492]

Voodoo are pretty big in the UK. Bizango Pro wins budget whip every year

[@westernairsoft2723]

Calibre bossnut had the right idea good bike good price and upgradable should you choose.

[@TheAverageDutchman]

The biggest problem is that somehow people have been convinced they NEED the expensive high end 15k+ bike, when the reality is that most people would be absolutely fine on loweer spec Canyon or Nukeproof or something. High end brands are selling uber expensive high end boutique bikes because there is money there. I also rarely see content for lower end bikes on the big MTB channels. Usually it's expensive bikes left right and center. GMBN isn't above this either.

[@MalcolmMorris-l2y]

Bikes are as expensive as the market will stand. If nobody buys them, they’ll get less expensive. I think you need to be careful with comments about cutting out bike shops as without a little bit of profit from bike sales any repairs or advice will cost more, if it’s still viable to make them available. Many LBS are struggling. Last year I gave my 20yo full sus 26er to my son, who was glad to have it as it was really well maintained and I bought a new hard tail and a full suss, as I was so impressed with modern geo. I’m not likely to replace either of them quickly as they were a significant expense , despite being discounted. I’m now going through chains and service items a site quicker than I used to though. I am a bit concerned about future spares availability for my bikes as they age, mid-long term, especially if tech changes so rapidly and standards are all over the place?

[@krustytutos]

I live in Chile, Latin America, where our markets tend to be somewhat abusive with prices, making starting a business more challenging. I'm passionate about biking and I'm grateful that Polygon exists, igot my first enduro bike!. However, I feel apprehensive about mixing pleasure with work. My dream is to enjoy doing something I love for a living every day, as this is my true passion. I hope my text makes sense

[@pinchemain00]

People forget when spending £12,000 on a Ducati (or any other motorbike) that’s only a base model. You can then go and spend another £30k plus on that motorbike on better suspension, engine tuning and the other bits for it. Spend £12,000 on a bicycle and you’ve got all the top of the range bits on the bike

[@kjracz15]

15:50 That eye contact, you can tell there's a stifled giggle in there somewhere. 🤣

[@frankharradence732]

Blake one off's for my money, perhaps gearbox but probably Shimano XT hardtail for my trail/xc riding preference ... oh and a 140mm 36 fork.

[@andrewbrown8927]

The worst is the resale market right now. People bought bikes overpriced during covid and everyone is trying to sell 2 year old bikes for what a brand new would cost today. The people on the resale market right now are nuts.

[@CharlieHarper-d4x]

Waiting for a brand new vitus E escarpe to arrive, £1800 ! 👍 Couldn't turn it down for my first full suspension ebike .

[@stuartmoseley]

Picked up a Nukeproof Scout Comp over 50% off. 😳 Friend purchased a Ragley Big Al full build £399 😮

[@bryanwagnerseniormtb9940]

#captioncontest Rich: I don’t see the feature you’re referring to. Blake: It’s huuuge, I’m gonna send it!

[@cornishcactus]

First thing to do with buying bike stuff is don't buy on release. A 2023 bike I'd really like if I had the money is now £1800 quid down from £3000+ The odd thing is this year the brand has responded to the cost of living and have made the 2024 £2000 straight out the shop, very commendable. However the parts spec has taken a huge drop from the previous year so the 23 is still the far better bike and I won't even contemplate the 24 ( which this time next year you can have for around £1300-£1500 ) Same for clothing, new Nukeproof onesie is £450, who's that stupid when the Endura is less than half the price?, and next winter you'll get it for sub 200 anyway.

[@MrMuz99]

That's not a onesie. 😅

[@cornishcactus]

@@MrMuz99 a twosie?

[@MrMuz99]

@@cornishcactus - If you like, but onesie is bad enough, we don't need another term for two pieces of clothing. 😅

[@millszoid]

Hey this might be a bit unpopular but some of the issue is we over spec the bike we need, a lot of people are riding round in 10k bikes when a 2 to 3k bike would suit there needs better or they have a bike that spends a lot of time in the shed. also we are full sus mad, I ride a 1.2k HT an i'm 50 and intend to keep riding it, done BPW a few times no issue and be realistic with what you really need,

[@horusgarcia1]

The used bike market is already a bike brand. I am already flipping them and refurbishing them and pricing them economically. Polygons have great deals too.

[@Buckferg]

I have a hard time believing that these companies aren’t making profit even after these price drops. They got a bonus year and trying to make it their new base salary.

[@Si-pf2ht]

I’m brand vitus got a bargain in crc sales. I’m happy brands are struggling because everything was way too expensive

[@MrMuz99]

What Vitus did you get?

[@sliceoflife2739]

Walmart already did this with the ozark trail ridges and the Kent brand giordano intrepid and Kent trouvaille actually I’d love to see you guys do a review on these hardtails and give us a pros opinion on big box store mtbs

[@DQFG]

Would be nice to know if the bike manufactures know what us as customers are not happy with (price) It'll be good to hear from them on the reason why.

[@InitialP_Photography]

The bike feet, how would they stop the bike from toppling over in the back of the car? Bodge, what's wrong with laying the frame on a blanket?

[@Rosscraw]

When a fork can cost over £1400, shock £800, Sram XO transmission group set £1400 plus wheels, seat posts and all the other fancy bits you’d find on a high end bike it’s not surprising they cost so much. Try and building a frame with Gucci parts for cheaper. You can not compare a £14k Specialized to something Blake’s going to weld up in his shed. Ride a bike within your budget there are tons of 2 year old bikes for under 2k that were 5k or 6k new. If that’s too much get a hard tail.

[@Hiefi97]

Also a big problem (in germany) are those job-bike-leasing companies. Many of my non mtb friends have Fully-Mtbs around 5-8k, with high end parts, cause they can lease it "relatively" cheap. Many of our local Bikeshops now know how much they can take for those bikes...

[@dougnico2492]

Don't see the issue ?

[@Hiefi97]

@@dougnico2492 A big chemistry company in our area set the limit for leasing bikes from 5, up to 8k recently. Means prices at our local shops went up extremly. For a normal worker like me its nearly unaffordable to buy a bike nearby.

[@varnadivision1424]

C'mooon. Compare any race spec equipment: Rally car: around $1million Rally bike: around £33k (ktm) Mtb: whatever top spec you get from the shop (way less rhan any motorised stuff) The stock £12000 Multistrada in moto world is as good as any entry mid- level Polygon MTB ( £1000-£2000+).

[@drahoslavhorvath]

Ordered Trek Rail 9.7 for 5400€ last week... Original price 7999€... Actual situation become better

[@Beale1982]

I wonder if part of the problem is folk have become used to getting fancy cars on pcp/pvg significantly lowering they’re monthly costs then when you go to buy 10k bike and actually have to pay the 10k it’s a shock

[@KenHaggett-k3b]

Curious what it actually costs to build a bike. Do the components drive the costs or is massive markups?

[@elmomos]

I can't see where all that discounts and bargains are... In 2021 I bought a brand new Lapierre Zesty (full carbon, fox suspension and 12v sram group) for € 3k : is now something on the market at a lower pricepoint? Even alloy bikes are sold with at least a couple of cheap components that you will replace for sure...

[@CiderFex]

I’m very close to starting an MTB journey but the costs involved CAN be horrific. As a complete beginner one of THE most annoying parts of it all is when certain PooChoob reviewers say that a “bargain” bike is sold “at supermarket prices” to then say that it starts at £7,000. On what planet would someone new to the sport be willing to blow THAT much cash on something they have no real clue about ? As with most things in life if people are willing to pay £10K, £12K, £14K+ for a bike then the manufacturers will keep upgrading them and charging even more for them year after year. Luckily I’m not one for falling for the marketing BS so I’ll be spending my cash on a brand new, older model sub £1K TREK or CUBE hard tail to start with.

[@ryantate278]

I always ride a hardtail. I'm going to Morzine later in the year; for which I feel I need a full suspension. As a single father of two who works in education, there is no way I can afford my dream bike (Commencal). So, I am having to look second hand but even then I'll struggle to reach a grand and a half if I am lucky. How companies can justify the cost of some of these bikes is beyond me.It's not just the though...The cost of parts is just as ridiculous. I had to buy a new tyre for my car the other day and it was less than the most recent bike tyre I bought.

[@LeaBrattle-parker-pp5sf]

Great video as always. Team Martyn for me I'm afraid. Yes 14 grand is way too much money for a mountain bike whether it's analogue or electric, honestly it's you can buy a great car or a top end motorcycle for that

[@adamsmith2484]

Schrödinger’s cat is a quantum Physics experiment, Schrödinger hypothesised that in the world of quantum physics two states are present at the same time hence his experiment of putting his cat in a box and having a revolver tied with string to him in the room next door, when he pulls the string at the moment the cat is both alive and dead, two stares at the same time!