How to Study the Bible pt2

[@5crownsoutreach]

Always great to sit under a man of God so steeped in God's Word from Genesis to Revelation. Bless you, Arnold, Amen.

[@melissab7777]

Dr. Frutenbaum is such a gifted biblical teacher. Love all of his studies!

[@valroniclehre193]

@Rapture Bound KZbin starts to drop comments after a thread gets too long. As to the edits of your question, I do have firm beliefs that include not harming people without a just reason. I don't feel that the commands of various gods is a just reason.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 So your position is that christianity (not just the book but proper perspective on what it says tempered by your best intuitions and theological understanding) acts as a worthy foundation for moral choice? Am I getting that right? Do you feel this is more of a guiding suggestion or a commanded order? What about the less savory bits of scripture? The thing I'm fishing for is to see what your moral stance is, and what it would take to change it. Not because I necessarily want to change it, but because its criteria for change goes a long way in telling its quality.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 I know. And I know there are important distinctions between faiths. Maybe its clearer to say authority in general isn't a good reason in my eyes, much less authority of beings I don't believe in.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 Its how humans structure their groups so we need it. It needs careful checks and balances though. The people being governed need leverage over the authority figures. This is a little different if we are talking about expert authority. Experts should be trusted on the basis of their track records / performance verification ect. "Because I said so" is not a reason.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 Well anarchy doesn't actually last long. Very quickly the power vacuum is filled. Usually by whoever has the most guns and least mercy. Yea, you need a social structure to keep things from going that far. I think we actually agree on this. I am just convinced that the best structures, involve the ability to challenge and augment the decisions of the reigning authority.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 Some are better than others by a wide margin, but on the whole its in a terrible state. Specifically individual shortcomings of leaders, and perverse incentives of bad systems leave us much more vulnerable to famine, war, poverty, and other things than we need to be. Edit: I put no trust in them either. That's why the checks and balances are required. Politicians, be it democratic or dictatorial, will pursue their own interests. The only solution seems to be the construction and maintenance of systems that align those interests with the people they govern. Democracy is a good start but we need so much more work. I don't see how your religion solves any of this. Religious leaders are just as subject to antisocial behavior as secular ones. Even if there is a god, and even if it happens to be something like your god, humans are still left to govern themselves. Submitting to scripture just makes the problem worse, leaving us vulnerable to the next charismatic cultist who is good at swaying a crowd.

[@valroniclehre193]

Studying the bible is easy. Just figure out what you want it to say, and dig through every culture, language, and interpretation until you find it saying something kinda sorta like that. This is great if you believe something very strongly without a good reason. Want to cut up your kids genitals? Bible. Want to hate... well anyone? Bible. Want to solve social problems and explore new ideas for the sake of the next generation? Sorry, the bible wont get you any of that. But when someone else does that despite your best effort to stop them, you can then claim they did it because of your bible and your god. Win win!

[@heknows5418]

Bet your a blast at a party

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 How did you even get that out of what I said? Was this response just a reflex or what?

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 So thinking that we shouldn't execute people for picking up sticks on weekends means I have the arrogance of wanting dominion over the entire universe? No. It's not hard for an ordinary person to have better ideas than the bible. But what I was criticizing was how it corrupts peoples perception of each other. Something you just demonstrated.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 Old testament. The modern version is hating gays / trans. The commonality between them is religion making people act in evil ways without any real reason. There is nothing in my statement that implies I believe in your god, much less want his job.

[@valroniclehre193]

@@rapturebound197 I haven't said anything about your god. At all. You have an image in your head of what I am and it just isn't real. I have only said what religion does to peoples perceptions of each other. And once again you are proving me right by not registering what I'm saying. Here it is without hyperbole. Religion tells you something about a group of other people, (almost always negative) and you believe it regardless of its truth value, and that's fucked. I could talk all day about your disgusting imaginary friend and the creepy excuses believers make on his behalf but that isn't what I'm saying here.