How to train for Sub70 flexwing - WHY - An instructors thoughts

[@vauxscott]

I'm getting more and more tempted to go get some flexwing training, even just to see what this is all about!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I really wished I'd tried it a long time ago.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I really wished I'd tried it a long time ago.

[@huffpappy]

Scott, it is a great way to fly. YOLO so give it a try, it is really like no other form of flying. It is just so cool!

[@clippedwing-bensmith1614]

Your not the only one!

[@huffpappy]

I am so glad you produce this channel. Flying light weight trikes is so much fun, but to do it safely requires training. I had a friend who bought a used Quicksilver back in the early '90s. It is an easy machine to fly, and he did so with zero training against my advise. He survived, but I was so worried he was going to blow it. He was lucky. Anyhow, thanks so much for your efforts.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Sam, thank you for that kind comment. I just want to help others, by sharing my passion or helping them learn from those that can advise ie the interviews. I can't wait to get back in the air following our lockdown.

[@huffpappy]

​@@GolfFoxtrot22 Me too! I spent the whole past year locked down as I have a condition that would make getting the virus very dangerous.

[@tomcoryell]

I am revisiting this interview after being a fan of both Mark and Giles for quite some time. Well done!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Tom, it is interesting to see where things have come from.

[@tomcoryell]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Isn’t it? I just rewatched Mark’s first Peabee flight as well. It was cool to see his reaction.

[@MarkLadson]

I've always been searching for a way to get in the air and your channel has been hugely inspirational! I was going to look at the Microlight route but going sub 70 and then full license etc looks the best way!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Flying becomes a way of life, its wonderful and you can share the passion with other like minded people. I'm glad the channel,/video has been helpful, we should be back in the air again soon so I can start making more content. Where will you learn?

[@MarkLadson]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I'm close to Hull. Beverley, Linley Hill is nearest and I've been up with Rob before so that's probably the most likely! Do you think going sub 70 first has been a good route? Eventually I'd like to be able to take others up but right now any flying is good and family time/growing my business is keeping me super busy! Sub 70 looks ideal for shooting off for a quick flight when I can and getting plenty of experience in.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

That's exactly what it's good for. A quick fly. Simple to set up. Also if you go down the BMAA route, your lessons will count when going for your NPPL. I've registered my Peabee as SS2 microlight so the hours now count as well.

[@paramotorhead]

I’m really enjoying the interviews Giles, keep ‘em coming.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Scott, I'm enjoying arranging them but I can't wait to get back in the air. Some more EC for next week. ;)

[@thermaljumper]

Excellent. I have to say I am seriously tempted by a pee bee!. First though, NPPL on the C42 at Airways. Mark and the team have been so supportive in my first few hours. The instruction has been excellent and I’ve met some fantastic people during my time at Darley Moor. Hopefully we will be back soon.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I can't wait to be back there Jamie.

[@TomGarner4505]

Great interview, its great to hear about a forward thinking airfield operator.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

It's going to be great when its all set up.

[@davidnewbrook8628]

Another great video , I must say Mark (and Andy) were dead against me going down the BHPA route when I enquired about sub 70 training a couple of years back , but times have changed .

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

It's amazing how times have changed. It's one of the reasons I wanted to get this video to help others.

[@DougBow96]

Mark is the man! Appreciate his backstory, agreed, the path to aviation is a common one. Intro flight -> RC -> ultralights (when you can afford it). Giles, you are right, giant scale RC and RC helicopters are about the same $$$ as Sub70 or PPG. Thanks for a great interview and sharing Mark's wisdom. :)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Doug, I hope you are still keeping well. Yes, it's always a fine balance of costs. I have recently sold my model aircraft 😉.

[@DougBow96]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Hi Giles, doing ok here. Just struggling with weather & covid. The usual battles, right? Ha ha, same here, selling my RC fleet. Apparently I really like it when my feet leave the ground. :)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Yes, I completely agree. I only kept the models that weren't worth much.

[@DougBow96]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Same, will keep some bits due to low value or age.

[@planecrazyish]

100% with you on that one Giles, you don't know, what you don't know. Anyone that thinks it's a good idea, to fly without training, shouldn't even get close to an aircraft. Great interview. Mark is a great guy, since watching your videos, I have gone to their website too and watched a great video on air space, just yesterday. If I was in the UK, that would be my school of choice.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Mark made some really good videos during the first lockdown which are a great resource. I never want to stop learning so everyday/flight is another lesson.

[@pimplequeen2]

I see the point and utility of the perspective, but it is somewhat dismissive of the pioneer... You know, those who skin their knuckles and carve those paths that Joe Standard struts up and down like he owns the place.

[@deezelfairy]

​@@pimplequeen2So we just let all these 'pioneers' you speak of just jump into cars without a license? How about HGV's? Buses? I'm considering purchasing a sub 70 nano, my total flight experience is a couple of airline tickets to go on holiday twice. I personally feel me purchasing a sub 70 and 'having at it' would be incredibly irresponsible. Although there is no licensing requirements, if enough 'pioneers' get into this and get in trouble, whether that be via accidents or more likely, breaking CAA flight rules (entering restricted air space unwittingly ect) then the CAA are going to remove that sub 70 dispensation and say "No, fun's over boys, everyone has to do a microlight license now" As with everything, it only takes a handful of idiots or even just ignorant people, to spoil it for everyone and if training is available and you choose not to take it, then your willfully ignorant. Wisdom is knowing what you don't know.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Nicely worded. Even if the escape option involves a minor bump/breakage, the cost of the repairs is generally more than the cost of the lessons that have avoided the accident in the first place.

[@pimplequeen2]

@@deezelfairy You are missing a subtlety and embellishing your objection. There are VERY few places left where a man can navigate the adversity of a chosen adventure without being molested by self important "experts" who by their self evident nature do not have the gumption, propensity or inclination to push far enough into the unknown to innovate. Yet, here you are claiming the moral high ground while riding on the shoulders of that which you denigrate. Its a little short sighted! (Willfully ignorant maybe?) I'm not saying you don't have a point, we each have our strength's and weaknesses... I am saying you are a little quick to bite the hand that feeds you. Plenty of "trained experts" bust airspace or are involved in accidents... Maybe more so than our trusted innovators who tend to be autistic with fine detail. I do not advocate the more difficult and dangerous path of self reliance and first hand discovery but I certainly don't look down my nose at those who for whatever reason, can and do chose to dip their toe into the unknown. Where do you think hang gliding and paragliding came from?

[@carlnicholson6710]

Mark has a point at the start, I looked into paramotoring and ended up with my Flash II Alpha instead. I could buy my Alpha 5 times over for the price of a paramotor! Two stroke flexwings are an amazing gateway aircraft for those on a budget.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I completely agree, I just took the wrong path to start with.

[@carlnicholson6710]

It was worth it for the content you got on the channel mate. 👍

[@huffpappy]

Paramotors have a few advantages over flex wings like transportability, weight, and storage, but I have watched way too many videos of wing collapses and the resulting crashes to give it a try at my age. I fly trikes now, and it was a natural progression from all the hang gliding I did when I was younger. It is a marvelous way to fly.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@huffpappy It's a bit like the comparison video I made last year. There is no perfect machine. The very nature of a paramotor being transportable means something has to be sacrificed. Wheels require a smoother surface, but as you said it is a marvelous way to fly.

[@huffpappy]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I watch the young guys like Tucker Gott ripping the sky up in their paramotors and I am a bit envious, then I think of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmGXpoGNj7Jog5o&ab_channel=TomKubat I have been in some incredibly rowdy air flying hang gliders and trikes, and I have never had a structural failure (knock on wood). It is really nice to have wheels to land on when you get older.

[@David_Wolfe]

Giles you do a great job interviewing

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

It's not live so all the bad bits are edited out😉. The paramotor nation is all live, so no room for error, you make that look easy.

[@pappy1812]

Loving your channel. Its really giving me the urge to stop dreaming and start doing. Cheers 👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Glad you are enjoying the content. Just sharing my passion. Another one out today. Do you currently fly? Or want to?

[@pappy1812]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I don't fly at present but I am desperate to learn

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@pappy1812 Don't hold back, get a trial lesson, the world is your oyster and life is too short to not try it at least. I 'm not made of money but saved lots and made lots of other life sacrifices to allow me to follow my dream.

[@pappy1812]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I'm determined to do it. Life has gone down hill the last few years and I need something to give me an interest. I can't wait to see the UK from the air. I would love to fly in the Highlands too. Maybe one day I will. You fly in Wales don't you?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@pappy1812 I currently fly in the West Country.

[@GregAnthonyHarris]

Nicely done brother!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Greg, it was a fun interview which makes all the difference.

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

1984 I went to Wombleton in Yorkshire to learn to microlight. They trained on a 440cc aircraft but you soloed in a 125cc one. As your training progressed you moved onto the 250cc ones.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I was only 5 in 1984. I can see the logic but with modern engines, it definitely changes the training perspective.

[@tomcoryell]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Only 5 in 1984? Holy Crap! Now I really feel ancient!

[@flyskiride]

This is exactly what I want to know might have to get saving 🤔😁👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello there, good to see you back. I still like your videos flying from Darley Moor. I'm glad you found it useful. Give Mark a shout about his PeaBee, he might have a surprise for you. ;)

[@flyskiride]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 ooh sounds exciting. I certainly will as soon as we can. I want to have a flight in a microlight first and see how I like that. I just have a feeling it will cost me from then on 😁😁

[@DavidReckitt]

Nice one Giles. Hope peeps take note :)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

There will always be'that guy'. 😉😁.

[@clearprop]

An enjoyable watch. 👍😁

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Dan, I hope you are well. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I can't wait to fly again.

[@clearprop]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Very much so. And I'm also very much looking forward to getting my bum airborne. I'm at the point of indecisively looking at just about every training provider in the southern half of the UK at the moment... 🙄🤣

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Haha, I know that feeling.

[@flyingkub]

I was a big shock to me whenin the USA I found out about Part 103 aircraft and that you could just jump in one and teach yourself how to fly, I only found out about them as we (me and a couple of my RAF crew), scrapped a chap out of a tree, after his first flight in his home built machine using cheap bolt from a hardware shop and a second hand (unservice engine). The engine stopped not long after take off and he pulled back to stretch the glide and stalled. He had never had any training other than that for flying model aircraft, which he admitted he was not good at.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I know of a few that have self taught but you could tell from their flying style. I know of quite a few that have self taught on PPG but that's another story.

[@flyingkub]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I was self taught for PPG although I was trained for PG but there was no training for PPG when I did it so there was no choice, I think the thing that saved me the most was I cut the power and reverted to PG. I think that I was lucky but if I had tried without even have the PG training I do not think I would still be alive.

[@pimplequeen2]

@@flyingkub Although I wouldn't recommend it, there is something to be said for discovering flight at your own pace, firsthand and independent of the white noise of other people... Some of us are a little more autistic than others :) It's dangerous and has its additional setbacks but it's psychologically quiet and you get to taste discovery firsthand. Stick to the training but remember that those exiting convention are the mothers of invention... They gave birth to the sport! :)

[@flyingkub]

@@pimplequeen2 I can understand what you are saying but I would still recommend training or at least learning with someone you trust to give guidance, there are a lot of lessons that you do not want to learn the hard way. I have helped too many people off the hill who learnt by mistake that the simple PG is not as tame as it looks. The other problem of self teaching is you don't know what you need to know, the process of flyig is easy, in the right conditions but becomes very hard when you fly into rotor (if you have not learnt what to be looking out for and where not to go. A good friend of mine has been fitted with his wings permanently after decending into the lee of a hill, he had 20hrs on hang gliders and was self taught in the early 90's).

[@pimplequeen2]

@@flyingkub I agree, finding yourself next to an expert can be worth its weight in gold! I try to do my part in putting a flea in the odd ear or two and encouraging good practice and avoiding the classic mistakes. I still admire your friend who stalled his basket case into a tree though :) I think I would get along with him quite nicely. Plenty of "trained" pilots with thousands of hours have also fallen on the wrong side of the risk reward sum.

[@patrickmckowen2999]

Excellent show 👍 Cheers

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Thanks Patrick, more interviews to come, but I really want to get back to making flying videos.

[@patrickmckowen2999]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Looking forward to them.

[@helimed01]

In the mid to early 1990s I bought a sub 70 type flexwing (Alize Solo 210 on Solar wings Typhoon wing) telling the suppliers I was a microlight pilot. I was a hanglider pilot from 1980s and thought it would be a piece of cake to "self teach" myself to a convert. I was wrong and wrecked the undercarriage on my first attempt at landing. Despite having hangliding experience the powered flexwing was very different. My message. GET SOME LESSONS. There is much more to this story so if you know me, buy me a beer and ask.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I think I remember you telling me this story. It's still a cool but eye opening story.

[@BrianTurboT]

Nice one guys 👍👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Thanks Turbo, I hope the dog walk was pleasant and kept those knees working?

[@BrianTurboT]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 👌👍🐕🐕

[@dessystewart6567]

Enjoyed the video Giles, could you tell me the 2 courses you and Mark was discussing what the full titles are as I am hoping to take lessons later this year with hope off maybe being able to purchase a pea bee in the near future?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

To help answer your question there is a tiny background story. I'm already a member of the British Hang Gliding and paragliding association, they provide my insurance, so to get the Sub70 insurance that is required for wheels, I when down the BHPA syllabus route, so I could fly on my BHPA insurance (see my paramotor to Peabee series if your are interested). I have a lapsed Group A PPL so for me to obtain my NPPL all I had to complete was my NPPL GST, that was the NPPL Journey videos. I can then fly my Peabee as Single Seat Deregulated (GRegistrstion), still under my BHPA insurance. If I didn't have any of theses qualifications and starting from scratch I could choose either the BHPA or British Microlight Aircraft Association route. If I've missed anything please let me know. Or give the Airways office a call or your local school.

[@dessystewart6567]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thanks Giles I reside in the Republic of Ireland and the nearest flying school to me is in Northern Ireland Newtownards county Down just over a two hour drive, there seems to be hidden costs everywhere 🤔😆hoping to complete NPPL (flex Wing ) and then hopefully get a Pea Bee 🤷‍♂️

[@freezatron]

One thing I would add is for those who are really determined to teach themselves how to fly anything is to make sure you go do it somewhere you can't hurt anyone and at the very least adopt a mindset of "Fly at ones own risk and no one else's" :) That was mind set when I taught myself how to fly paragliders and as I see it there were only two benefits from doing so, saved some money on training and I got used to making my own decisions from the get go. That said there are a lot of additional risks to the auto didactic route and I had one or two close calls along the way ... Not something I would recommend, better to learn from other peoples mistakes via training that way you can keep your own mistakes small enough to learn from ! ... hopefully :)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

That theory works to an extent for a paraglider which is pendula stable, low weight. When it comes to a Sub70 Flexwing, which is faster heavier and the control form is not intuitive, it goes wrong fast. I know of one chap, that after one hour flying lesson, took his machine for a fast taxi, for a few seconds too long, lifted off and then promptly put the wrong input in. He stoved in hard and now has a hefty repair bill for the front end. In aviation, you don't know, what you don't know and it takes no prisoners. I'm not saying you can't teach yourself, but the odds are seriously stacked against you. The repair bill is generally more expensive than the lessons it would have taken to prevent the accident in the first place.

[@freezatron]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 .. agreed, I did say there are few benefits and lots of risks with teaching yourself to fly anything and having done it that I wouldn't recommend it given what I went through learning the hard way. My point was that for those who are determined to do it the hard way, (and let's face there is always a few who are), is to make sure you don't hurt anyone else whilst doing it. I certainly wasn't suggesting it was ok to do it or that it was a good idea. Having a good instructor can save a lot of grief :)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Fully understand. Sorry if it seemed a strong reply.. It wasn't meant in that way. Aviation takes no prisoners. Mark and I put that video together more to help encourage others to get the necessary training rather than become a static. Good to meet you in the comments and I hope you're enjoying the content.

[@freezatron]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 it did seem to be protesting a point I wasn't making but I'm glad we clarified things :) I wonder where about's you guys are based ? Anywhere near Brighton by any chance ?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@freezatron Derbyshire, near Ashbourne. I just like to keep people safe. Sorry again if it came across the wrong way.

[@andreschapero3615]

Good interview. What about getting the PeaBee creator on camera for a good hour show ? And by the way, what your guest said about cost $$$ of flying... Most pilots only dream of flying because getting a C150 or Pipistrel in the air for an hour is just unaffordable for most. That´s why the Sub70 and german Sub120 categories will change the sport aviation world. More videos please....

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Well, you'll be surprised, I do have Ben lined up. Not quite for an hour but some good questions, unless you have one you would like me to ask him?

[@andreschapero3615]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Yes... I want to know about the 30 min Full Electric PeaBee-- powered by a cheap electric powerplant system . Something that sport pilots can afford and that will let the get to a thermal or ridge for total engine off happiness... That´s what I want to know :-)

[@craigmurdie5428]

Great video as always. I do wonder what sub-70 pilots do when they want to take a passenger, I can’t imagine getting easy access to hire school aircraft for an hour or two?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

They would probably start by getting their National Private Pilots Licence. As sub 70 does not require a licence and is single seat only, they wouldn't be flying anything with 2 seats unfortunately.

[@TheErsatzMode]

Forgive me if it was said and I missed it, but I didn't notice any information on the differences between specific sub-70 training, and full microlight training (if there are any). There was also nothing said about the costs involved, or the time it takes to train. I mainly heard a sermon about the disbenefits of flying without any training, but not much other substance.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

You were correct in that the specifics were not covered as there can be obtained from the BMAA and the BHPA. The difference between Sub70 and NPPL are found on the BMAA website, but it pretty much follows the basics of the NPPL syllabus. The problem with quoting hours and costs is every school will have different costs. Also everyone learns at different rates so stating a a number of hours could be a bit false. The Microlight licence has a minimum number of hours set for training (this can be found on the BMAA website), but for the sub 70 side, there isn't any. I've know some tske 30 hours of training to cover the BHPA syllabus and I managed to complete it in under 6. If you are interested, I can only suggest you contact your UK microlight school and discuss the finer points with them as they might have a different opinion.

[@TheErsatzMode]

@@GolfFoxtrot22, thanks. I was interested in FLPH several years ago, and recently learning of the sub-70 category piqued my interest. However, I never did fly as I developed a phobia of leaving the ground (before I even started). I think I still have that same fear, which watching another of your videos (in-flight camera) - since leaving my comments - seems very much to be the case.

[@deanfox8951]

I see a podcast in your future 🔮

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Haha, if only I didn't have a day job. 😉.

[@richardturner4950]

Very interesting video. Re. training, what advice would you give to a lapsed flexwing microlight pilot with 200 odd hours? Really fancy a Pea bee.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Richard, I'm not an instructor, so I'm not in a position to really give any advice. However, if I were in your position, I'd go for a refresher with an instructor. Then I would know I was safe and my reactions were correct.

[@richardturner4950]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I agree, thanks.

[@patrickmckowen2999]

I have the Yeasu 450 - shit range on mine -- how is yours - you doing anything other than the stock antenna? Cheers

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Stock Antenna, but I don't transmit more than 15 miles. All the air traffic units have come back with 5x5.

[@patrickmckowen2999]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I have had someone take off and by the time they are 30secs out I can pick them up from the ground anymore. Hmmm! Cheers

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Humm, have you got all the options at full or reduced power?

[@patrickmckowen2999]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I will have to investigate - I am a radio idiot. I will check up on vids for proper set up.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I'm no expert either. Sorry I can't help further.

[@edgars00789]

I wish I could owned a ultralight aircraft

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Edgar, as I've said in other comments only you will know how you can achieve this.

[@bradbrown2168]

High side pull to hip.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Brad, yep, that will definitely give a good descent rate😁.