How to tune a Passive Radiator - 3 Different ways

[@oliverbeard7912]

A couple of great ideas there mounting the radiator unit backward and using the rice. Good channel.

[@fookingsog]

*ALWAYS* Informative & Concise!!! 😁👍🏻

[@colorblind1983]

I used a 20mm socket as a weight in one of my passive radiator setup. Drastically lowered the tuning.

[@Stan_the_Belgian]

Such an underrated channel, great to the point video

[@zarboaudioprojects1430]

Great information. There is a passive radiator that had the weights attach to the 'dust cap' area of the outside of the cone so you can change weights with the PR still installed. I remember floating in a pool in Springboro, Ohio after a Midwest Audiofest years ago and discussing that exact product with a guy I had just met... turns out it was Jeff Bagby. CCS is the brand if I'm not mistaken. I never thought to just turn the PR around for a quick test though. Good quick and dirty test!

[@Toid]

That is awesome! And you are correct that CSS does that. I also bought a few buyout 12" Passive Radiators from PE that do that as well. BUt they don't look anything near the quality as the CSS.

[@wyldeminded]

I saw a guy whose PR with cone weights busted through. 😬

[@trumanbeal5668]

This was pretty cool.. Always wondered about the rice trick, as I've seen it before without any context to what they were doing...

[@davidniquot6423]

Simple way of planning simple things ... good job.

[@alexw890]

Man this came just in time, thanks Toid! I’m just starting to design some PR subs!

[@indopleaser]

Channel has good content since subscribed. Your a hero

[@Toid]

Thank you! I really appreciate it

[@diyboomboxesintexas2805]

Great video. Thank you for the information.

[@Toid]

You’re welcome

[@RoaroftheTiger]

Thanks for the Great Tips !

[@paulgood2218]

Great video and great information

[@SetchiPaunda]

Great info thanks. Love the piggy wiggly hat. I used to work at a piggy wiggly in Rome Georgia over 30 years ago

[@ivanaviNiebla]

Maybe I'm too dense, but I didn't understand the last option with the rice. What do I do with the tuning freq, or when do I add the weights? xP

[@Pentenfi]

You can also measure the tuning frequency by using a multimeter and maybe an added resistor. You basicially run different sin-tones at the same voltage and measure the current. It#s very easy but takes a lot more time than just running a sweep on dats. But I don't have dats, yet, so I usually do it as above

[@datdudeinred]

So the current will suddenly increase or decrease at fb?

[@spookytooth69]

Mounting the radiator backward to tune is pretty smart, but doesn't that change the internal volume of the enclosure? Will that affect tuning ultimately?

[@Jdww89]

Lost on the third one. How does the tuner stay? Trying to get my milwaukee packout radio sounding a little better. I believe it's actually being over driven and causing distortion.i thought it was a blown sub only to find out it's a passive resonator that I've never even heard of. It's glued in, so I can't add weights

[@jimthvac100]

Regarding your project to use a sealed subwoofer and DAT. I find the Dayton Audio 18" UM18-22 to be great for sealed subwoofer 27Hz 3db down in a 6.5 ft3 enclosure. SPL up to 116db. Xmax 22mm

[@drrock5356]

I have access to a waterjet, and 1/2" SS plate. I cut out a 2.4" OD puck with a .315 thru hole = 290g mass to add to each Slaps M12V2 radiator, tuned my sealed 2.6 cu ft box with 2 Skar SVR12 subs to 22 Hz. Playing a pure sine wave from a tone generator, at both 23 Hz and 26 Hz, the car resonates, and begins to shake apart.

[@jbarelds78]

Good info, as usual. One thing I was wondering about... Small boxes with relatively low tuning often need impractically long ports, which is when the PR is used most I think. Doesn't mounting the PR upside down affect the internal volume too much?

[@Toid]

I’m not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by mounting the passive radiator upside down? Are you saying when you temporarily mount it backwards? If that’s the case, then the answer to that is, it should have a very minor affect on overall tuning. Once you put those passive radiators in the correct way, and re-run your method of tuning, you can see hire it affected it.

[@MetroidChild]

Passive radiator mounting usually only increases/decreases the volume by a few percent, the driver(s) and bracing tends to play a bigger role in net box volume.

[@zukispur5493]

Hello mate. I have a pair of leak sandwich 600 speakers. 26" tall. 15" wide 13" deep. (Please look them up) they have a 12" bass driver in them and I'd like to put a 12" Dayton audio passive radiator in the back. Will it be ok to tune do you think? Thanks in advance. Enjoyed your video by the way. Oh also I have a pair of celestion ditton 44 series 2 speaker cabinets that I'd like to get going. They have a 10" hole at the back for a passive radiator could I put 2 8" Dayton audio woofers in the front with 2 10" passive radiators at the back?

[@FilipeGarcia89]

Hi! Very good and intuitive video, but I have a doubt. Can you help? I'm not using weight to lower the frequencies and its still giving more bass in 40/45hz... I want the frequencies higher than I have now... There's no weight to remove anymore. There's some trick to do that?

[@darpmalone2064]

Doesn't flipping the driver make the internal volume larger, thus changing the tuning frequency?

[@Toid]

Technically, yes. However, the amount of space that a passive radiator takes up is so little, the tuning frequency shouldn’t have any noticeable impact. If you’re concerned about that, once you reverse them in the normal orientation, just test the tuning frequency again

[@richardowen5589]

I have always seen addressed that you need at least 2 times the displacement passive vs active discussed, and understand that. However, what I have never seen addressed, is it possible to have too much displacement in the passive radiators? What if, for instances, my passives had 4x the displacement of the active(s), is that counter-productive (other than cost) and will it lead to diminished sound quality? Second, it is possible to make your own passive radiators from old speakers you have laying around, perhaps a car audio sub with a bad VC, then just pop off the magnet structure.

[@wyldeminded]

I'm not an expert, so anyone can feel free to correct me, but I think that would just require making the box smaller, so that the air's "tighter" a and makes the PR more responsive. 4x difference would likely require a pretty steep contrast in cone size. But then again, it's common to have, say, one active, and 2 PRs of the same size. PRs usually have significant xmax/excursion, so again, I (think) that it's just a matter of tuning the box volume, and the PR weights, accordingly. As far as making your own PR, why not try? Google it, look up some existing designs, trial and error. You might make the best one!

[@jameshuntley428]

I’m building a tower speaker with 4 passive radiators. Should each passive radiator have the same amount of weight?

[@Toid]

Yes

[@tommyshoe-star1426]

I´m interested in buiding a 2-way speaker with the DA Epique drivers, just realised that they released 2 PR for the series. but wouldn´t it be better to use a higher diameter in terms of SD to have a lower tuning frequency, as the price is just 5€ difference for the bigger one ?!

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

I have some extra top assemblies for my TC 5200 subs. I was thinking of trying them out as the passive radiators. Is there any reason that would be a bad idea? I suppose I can assemble the sub and use my Dats. What I am saying is I don't know if passive radiators are designed differently in the suspension area or something then a real woofer would be. I can add mass by using plumbers clay or something and stuff it on the inside of the voice coil former for added mass.

[@Toid]

No, in fact, that is how passive radiators are created. As long as you feel that you can add weights appropriately, you should be fine I think I would really love to see it if you wanna share on the forum, that would be awesome.

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

@@Toid If i eggs up doing it I'll link it to you or ask you where to post it. Thanks for the reply!

[@TheEinart]

I currently cooking together a enclosure for 2x12" active peerless xls drivers and 4 passive xls drivers in a big box. hoping for the best. lol

[@AwesomeSauceShow]

Love this content! How is the SB audio sub coming along?

[@Toid]

It’s coming along great. I’m gonna try to get it out tomorrow and if I don’t get out tomorrow will be out Tuesday.

[@endall39]

Could you also just run signal seeps and watch for the peak output frequency? Then adjust the weight until peak spl matches the goal (e.g., 35Hz)?

[@royd7984]

I'd like to mod my simple crossover to I increase the treble of my 2 way speakers. The capacitors are cheap electrolytic and the resistors are cheap sand type. Would the sound be significantly improved by upgrading these parts? I would appreciate any advice that you can give me. Thanks!

[@Toid]

Upgrading the capacitor could make a nice improvement. Resistors are typically less of an improvement

[@jameshuntley428]

Great video!

[@blakebrockhaus347]

Eeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyy shout-out to me at 4:40

[@Toid]

That’s right. Always give credit to where credit is due. I appreciate you Blake.

[@karandex]

Hi, I just cheked that passive version of dinas uses passive raidaotr. I am able to get all parts except that ( I live in India). Will any other alternative work or can I make it ported like in original DInas. In that case I might have to buy both plans.

[@Toid]

Do me a favor and email me

[@ryanmichalski7420]

As a new comer to speaker building are passive radiators easier than ported builds. Also are there different size passive radiators available, and way would I need a smaller or larger passive radiator. I also heard you mention a second passive radiator what would be the reasoning for a second one.

[@Toid]

That’s a hard question to answer. In general, I think passive radiators are harder for newcomer to implement correctly. Having said that, both designs are a lot more in depth than most people realize. As far as the size of passive radiator needed, you typically want twice the volume displacement of your main driver. I would highly recommend downloading the free program WinISD and modeling some drivers with passive radiators. I have a video on how to use that. I’d recommend watching that as well.

[@kevonmanuel]

When are we going to get an in-depth home theater tour video?

[@Toid]

That would be awesome. Probably when I get the Home theater completely set up currently it’s not really in a showable state

[@stanlake2726]

Great information but as others have said you haven’t shown us how to physically add the weight to the radiator.

[@wyldeminded]

It's usually just thick metal washers that are added to a threaded bolt extending through the back of the radiator frame, and nutted down. Some PRs have the weights on the front of the cone.

[@edfx]

Is there such thing as "active radiator"? Acts like a passive radiator, but second amp and DSP kicks in either to keep excursion under control or boost midbass, rather than hanging around above resonants frequencies?

[@mkshffr4936]

Well since an active radiator is a speaker driver one could say that an N.5 way system uses and active radiator system.

[@johncameron4172]

I just want to know where you got the Piggly Wiggly hat. My Grandma used to take me to a Piggly Wiggly store to do what she called “trading”. This was 45 years ago and she passed away 25 years ago and that particular Piggly Wiggly is long since closed. I just would like to have one of those hats to remind me of her. She was the embodiment of wonderful.

[@Toid]

What a great idea. I got this one while traveling at an actual Piggly Wiggly store. However, you can buy a few of the vintage designs on Amazon if you like. amzn.to/3EfAYH7

[@jamesfalvey77]

Piggly wiggly.........lol I have a computer, however, I hate having to use them for everything. Adapt or die huh? I'm more in favor of the third method, however, I believe the rice will scratch the cone. Thinking about using 2 epique subs with radiators under the rear seat of an f150. May I suggest a fourth way. I have an s.m.d amm-1 and it has the capability to measure impedance in real time. I could use that to find the tuning frequency I believe

[@Toid]

You might be able to. I’m not real familiar with the Amm-1 but if it gives you an impedance chart similar to dats, then you definitely could use it.

[@jamesfalvey77]

@@Toid no chart. Just numbers.

[@Toid]

@@jamesfalvey77 that’s fine. As long as the numbers relate to a frequency. You’ll just read the frequency and watch it. In your case, I’d probably start at 0 Hz watch the numbers, go up and then as they fall back down whatever the lowest frequency that relates to impedance is, that you’re tuning frequency.

[@AllboroLCD]

Does a passive radiator not need to be twice the size of the driver your using? Just something Ive read...

[@Toid]

No. It needs twice the volume displacement. This can be accomplished in a few different ways but volume displacement calculation is SD times X max. Calculate that of your active driver. Then figure out how you’re going to get two times that number with the passive radiator. You could use a passive radiator with the same SD a twice the X max or you could use two passive radiators with similar SD and xmax. Heck, you could use a bunch a little passive radiators really there’s no wrong choice as long as you have twice the volume displacement (rule of thumb).

[@hom2fu]

no, i found boom box speaker in the trash. i'm thinking 2 active speaker. open it. active and passive speaker are same size. passive radiator need to tune lower.

[@AllboroLCD]

@@Toid Much much appreciated, thank you! Your projects always impress as far as im concerned. Ever considered doing a modern take with a vintage style console unit? Coffin stereos were what I always called em, lol.

[@Toid]

@@AllboroLCD actually I’ve been giving that a lot of thought. I’ve been going back and forth between a complete build from the ground up to taking an old cabinet and refitting it with all new electronics

[@adamdjd7882]

Great video Nick. Bro do you have a video on how to make FRD and ZMA files for drivers one might already have? doing sweeps etc. Not graph tracing. Cheers mate

[@xaytana]

Question, Is there a way to deduce PR parameters by using the second method but with a known driver and known box, essentially inversing how software finds optimal box volume from a known driver and known passive? I'm curious about a specific set of PRs, but the company is being so utterly unwilling to provide parameters. I can logically presume SD, Vas, and a rough Xmax range without physically having the product with me, given what the product is and what it was originally fully intended for in use. I'd rather have a decent starting point rather than just blindly trying to tune a PR in a suboptimal enclosure, especially when the PRs in question are of an atypical design that're just the mounting ring, surround, and a weighted cone, without the basket, spider, or a weight system on a spider. Their thinness caught my attention and could have potential for atypical builds, but again this company is just being such a ballache with providing parameters.

[@MrFARTSANDWICH]

I have four jlw3 8 in the back of my Durango had enough room in the enclosure I put a 10in JL in the enclosure ran it with power for a year cut the power to the 10 and use it as a passive radiator and got a lot more output you know the math said that I had enough room in the enclosure for that 10

[@halrichard1969]

Simple, Easy, Bob's Yer Uncle, Easy Peasy, Baddabing Baddaboom, Voila. :D

[@TeslaNick2]

WinISD works fine on Linux using WINE.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

🔥🔥🔥

[@mkshffr4936]

Or measure the impedance peaks.

[@Elnufo]

Method 3 wont work with a Bandpass tho.

[@blakebrockhaus347]

Yeah but who's building a bandpass without simulation software or dats? More importantly who's building a bandpass with prs?

[@Toid]

That’s a really good point. I’m glad you brought it up.

[@Elnufo]

@@blakebrockhaus347 yeah but i am building bandpasses with PRs.

[@billsomerset238]

If wasn't for the 46mm size I'd be interest. Its just to big

[@Ezees23]

You don't actually NEED to have a PR of that large a size. The general rule of thumb is to: #1) have your passive radiator be double the Volume Displacement (or, Vd) of the active driver, meaning having 2pc of the 'same size PR' as the active driver (ex: an 8" active driver with 8" PRs/x2 - doubles the Vd);.....or #2) have the PR be the 'same exact size' as the active driver - but the PR must have double the maximum excursion (Xmax) of the active driver (ex: 8" active driver with 4mm Xmax - mated with a single 8" PR with at least 8mm+ of Xmax). There's ways around "nearly everything", especially once you understand the parameters. Some of the absolute best PR designs I've heard were from Polk Audio in their long ago (but classic and still sought after) OG "SDA" Signature Series' of speakers that put them on the audio map as a premier speaker company (at that time, not so much today b/c "bean counters").....

[@mullinperformanceaudio5902]

Commmmm-puuuuuu-ttterrr....never heard of it.

[@Toid]

Haha! And right now I’m not sure if I should believe you or not 😂🤣

[@mullinperformanceaudio5902]

@@Toid My education stopped at neanderthal.

[@Toid]

@@mullinperformanceaudio5902 haha! Nice!

[@spritual_enlightenment]

In the end, rice left some dust. That must be easy to wipe off. 😁

[@Toid]

Ha ha ha! I guess I should’ve washed that rice first 😂

[@Samisven]

"i dont have a computer" was a imaginatioan since 1994 :D

[@janinapalmer8368]

Not a bad video ... but I wanted to see how the rice bounced as it went through the system resonance 😵‍💫..!

[@arnicus208]

Keeps showing rice on driver but never actually shows this particular method in action. Interesting

[@beastnsuwoop9974]

Man who cares just add a 10 inch radiator to any 12s