How to Tune Drift | Wobble & help Throbbles --- i-Term Tuning

A review of how to tune out Drift, Wobble and help "throbble" through a deeper look at the influence of the P:i term ratios in your PID tune.
Patreon video on CRUSHING nose bobble on fast throttle moves ("Throbbles"): / 56623823
Want to get on 4.3, but not sure about a nightly? Check out: / 56033560
0:00 - Intro
0:44 - The Overlay Setup
2:21 - Low Drift-Wobblee slider (low i-Term) Flight
4:49 - Adjusting Drift-Wobble in the OSD
5:20 - Adjusting i-Term in BF 4.2, KISS, FalcoX, Emu, iNAV, etc...
6:35 - HIGH Drift-Wobble slider (HIGH i-Term) Flight
10:35 - low vs. HIGH i-Term behaviors
13:02 - Wrapup / Conclusion
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[@chrishiggins7475]

Another top video and tutorial Mark 👍💪

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty interesting indeed, Mark! Thanks a lot! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@KLNYC]

Another great video . I learned something today 😀

[@cinemoriahFPV]

Thank you Mark!

[@enotion8594]

Thanks Mark, very helpful ;D

[@bkfpv]

Thank you for sharing

[@PIDtoolbox]

Excellent!

[@ugpfpv361]

Nice info, something I've wondered which would be nice to have a video on, maybe you've already done on, is how tpa affects the tuning process

[@MrSmithFPV]

Thanks for this video. Very interesting. I noticed that you say if I have some problems with bounce back on flips and roll I need to bring down the I-term cutoff. Is this right? Because I got some issues with that on my latest build.

[@uavtech]

Yes, reduce I-term Relax cutoff fr9m 15 to 10 or 5.

[@carbendi]

just wondering something. I have been using BF 4.3 September 9th version which is working fine. But when I updated to the newest version (with the new sliders) the cpu usage is all over the place. Even at 8:4 dshot 300 it starts low but constantly jumps arround 60-70 area. and when I check the tasks It shows gyro and pid is below than what it was before. On the previous version I was able to see 8000 at gyro with 8:8 and Dshot 600. So my question is :D Is this only like this on the configurator or will it reflect to the cpu even when flying? Thank you :)

[@heggy_fpv]

When there is heavy wind that is moving the quad, should we crank I gain higher from normal values, or will that cause even more wobble?

[@tehllama42]

Remember: Yaw Right will take you to the top Save & Exit on the OSD. Big time saver

[@uavtech]

Thanks!!! I do love the FalcoX OSD. BF could do a lot to simplify the OSD menu like F1. Less sub-menus is better. Just have more top level menus.

[@pscott82]

I tuned i-term using PIDtoolbox & "kitchen tuning" & found critical damping at 43,45,45 for roll, pitch & yaw respectively. In the real world on a very windy day, I couldn't tell the difference between a flight with those values & a flight with BF default i-term values (85,90,90) performing freestyle & racing maneuvers. Stick tracking (via BBE) & propwash performance was excellent on both too. So I guess since the tuning window is so large, the P to I ratio isn't as important as it's made out to be...

[@ugpfpv361]

This is what I was just thinking thinking, tuning I first seems like it would be king of hard, I've not tried that method yet...

[@pscott82]

@@ugpfpv361 check out the PIDToolbox KZbin account & watch the video about basement tuning. It gets great results & you can do it indoors where there are no external factors. In all honesty if you're tuning a 5" for best performance, I'd just leave i-Term & i-Term relax at BF defaults. The minimal overshoot that I encountered & tried to reduce for critical damping was negligible. Filters, PD balance & PD gain are the most important values to tune. Then add FF for that "locked in" feel.

[@ugpfpv361]

@@pscott82 will do!! Thanks

[@IvanEfimovLimon]

New UAV Tech video? Thumb up! :)

[@jas-FPV]

Is it planned to rename OSD elements to configurator? Thats smth I also saw in previous versions…

[@ReincarnatedTiger]

Any suggestions for a noob, my Quad bobbles a bit when i drop from the sky and either give hard accel to stop myself from hittin the ground,but theres no bobble if i throttle punch from a stand still, everythings fine there but only happens when i fall and hit the throttle..

[@srqTagle]

I have a question for you, I have a X class drone. It appears to wobble a lot during hovering and cruising. The FC is a Kakute F7, would moving Filter to the left for both the Gyro Filter and the D Term Filter Multipliers help? Moving to the left would add more filtering, would that help fix the wobble?

[@uavtech]

No, it will probably make worse. Check out the 9" preset at theuavtech.com/presets The key is a tune with D higher than P, i-term and P in a 1:1 ratio, and higher gains in general. Wobble is i-Term induced behavior. To fix, you need to raise P or lower i-gain. Check out the short video at theuavtech.com/tuning as well on gain relationships.

[@srqTagle]

@@uavtech OMG, just licked that link! What an awesome page you made there. I watched your video and did just that. Just wanted to make sure it was not a filtering issue. I am reading your website now. TYVM!!!!!!!

[@fpvfanatic]

Hello thanks for all the work You're doing. I was wondering if you have any suggestions for my mobula7. I just updated it from 4.0 to 4.3 hoping it would fly better. Every time I go full throttle and cut the stick the stick it will wobble so bad and yaw to the right. I have enabled rpm filtering and bi directional dshot. Also flashed bluejay and running 48kz. Any suggestions on what can correct this I so greatly appreciated it. Thank you and keep up the good work

[@uavtech]

Did you apply my whoop preset in 4.3? I don't have in the official yet, but you can add my preset repo to your Configurator.

[@fpvfanatic]

No I have not but I will tonight. Thank you so much I'll give it a try

[@Widflyinghigh]

I had this. Try just turning everything down. Bring the master down .15 or 2 and see what you get. I built an heavy overpowered 2 in. Went from not flyable to bitch ass cool fun. Granted, I have other tweaks in there with dynamic idle and throttle boost, but turning down a temperamental quad really fixed it right.

[@fpvfanatic]

@@Widflyinghigh Thanks I'll keep tuning. I almost have it the way I want

[@VladislavKurashov]

Ok, so I have same nose dip after throttle cut-off. My 5" Quad is high authority. Cg is right in the center of the quad. Overall pids are pretty high and tuned for good sticks tracking. Should I increase I term on Pitch?

[@uavtech]

P and I. And don't fear higher Anti-Gravity setting on BF 4.3. 4.3 has improved AG that helps a lot with throbbles. It boosts P and I and nit just i-term like previous versions.

[@VladislavKurashov]

@@uavtech Thanks! I hope that with bf4.3 release my quad will fly better.

[@badfourlife]

I hate the feel of high iterm on most of my quads.... I had my I at 55 on my heavier 7" and i was like why does it feel extra stiff.... dropped the I to 45 and it felt better again... I dont mind a higher I up to like 70 on my thrustier high powered quads(6") though. I run low FF (40) so maybe thats why i like the feel of low I term.... super obvious on my 10"... I just find the p/d ratio, crank it up to counter wind bobbles... than tune iterm more for stick feel...

[@heggy_fpv]

Thanks. What can I check if my 9" cinelifter roll drifts over a long time - like minutes, without any stick inputs, I have to correct for level horizon, very annoying for long range. I verified in blackbox it's not the controls jitter, there is no input on roll when that happens.

[@uavtech]

Just for a test, set Deadband to 5 in the Receivers Tab.

[@heggy_fpv]

@@uavtech yeah, I have that

[@pirateradioFPV]

I prefer low I-term. On the 5" I run the absolute useable minimum between 60-80. The higher you go, the more it fights your inputs when you do tight, limited space proximity.

[@uavtech]

Only fights input if they make PID Error. 🤔🤨

[@pirateradioFPV]

​@@uavtech Admittedly, I do run low PIDs. I like my quads like I like my women, a bit loose :D . . but the way the high I feels to me is, if you've ever driven a car into a corner and it feels like wants to keep going into the outside ditch as if it was pushing. That's what the high I term feels like to me. Like it's pushing.

[@geometerfpv2804]

@@pirateradioFPV Feel is a very misleading way to understand these things. Could be any number of things, or a combination of many causing that feeling for you.

[@pirateradioFPV]

@@geometerfpv2804 Yeah, perhaps you need to go design another frame then and try and sell it.

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Well I tried with my quad that drifts. Raised I from 85 90 to 115 might drift slower but still drifts. Yaw at 130. Haven't tried higher since at that point I want to go check that middle stick inputs read 1500 in betaflight still

[@uavtech]

If drifting with no stick i puts, increase Dead Band in the receivers tab.

[@amen_ra6926]

Man it must be so nice to have access to all that acreage to experiment. Living in SoCal we NOTHING like that. To come even close you have to drive 30+ miles to a park that might have the space and even still you have to contend with people pushing strollers, walking dogs, or just out and about. Even an AMA field requires driving some distance and the fixed wing guys aren't too fond of quads.

[@uavtech]

Yeah, but is is 70deg all year around there and sunny, so... all in balance. :-)

[@amen_ra6926]

@@uavtech yeah there is that. It makes it very very hard to leave. But flying a 5" in tight spaces becomes a challenge. I'm still working on making tighter turns without over shooting, going wide, and flying into something I can't see with no peripheral vision. So I pick up a 3" for those situations. Although being smaller makes it harder to find even when I throw a switch to trip the beeper.

[@camarochip]

I'm trying to figure out which PID causes a flutter/miss sound ,especially on Punch-Out, where my quad sounds like it's too rich if its a gas engine..i guess is a way to put it.. maybe that's considered an oscillation.thanks

[@uavtech]

That is D-gain. But if you drop D, you should drop them all together to not throw other things off.

[@camarochip]

@@uavtech thank you

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Damn I need to touch i-term. Always left at default I tried 4.3 on betafpv f405 12a but drone wouldn't fly. Tune from 4.2 wouldn't work in 4.3. I even added more filtering. Did pid amounts change like quads need way less pids

[@uavtech]

Nope. Gains the same

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

@@uavtech weird. I'm try another quad then.

[@mattg2596]

What takes throbbles away . Lot of my new quads from a individual have throbble on all but my worst one of 6 so far is my Apex konasty moon boot 1739kv 6s fettec g4/45a 4-1 4.3 pitch prop setup . Feels like 70% throttle thrust only die to to much throbble. I'll find a few similar builds on here and ask them what their pids are.

[@uavtech]

Increase Anti-gravity.

[@mattg2596]

@@uavtech I think i mistaken throbbles for full throttle oscillation. Basically when I hammer throttle to go up for few seconds it oscillates like a mofo to where it feels like a big loss in Power. But if I'm just going along 1/3 throttle it dont oscillate .

[@mattg2596]

@@uavtechnow I learned from a video that perhaps I have a wire touching the gyro. Esp being my d gains on kiss gui was 10 and 12 and I moved them to 20 to try based on someone with similar setup on here .

[@kevincortez6227]

everytime I increase i-term, the quad is really violent when I need to turtle roll. 1.05 i-term slider in 4.3 works great, but anything more is really violent. it's just not a good mechanical sound. you're getting lot's of trilling, I bet the quad would freak out if you hit a branch or tried to turtle. cool video though! thanks!

[@uavtech]

Hummmm perhaps i-Term should be disabled in Turtle Mode?

[@kevincortez6227]

@@uavtech that sound great!

[@TimeFadesMemoryLasts]

@@uavtech Probably a good call since I-term only winds up PID error to crazy heights if the quad lays on the ground and is restricted in movement. Nothing I-term could correct in this instance. I wonder if it's better to use turtle mode solely on P-term driven by stick deflection.

[@uavtech]

Agreed

[@mattalford3932]

I have a tinyhawk 3 tiny whoop. The wobble is ridiculously bad. So bad i thought a prop was damaged or a motor was loose. Its a new quad. Ive only flown it for maybe 2 hours total. Its my first tiny whoop. Im used to the bigger gps quads.

[@lf5133]

PS. I don't remember by drone wobbling in the past. Why is it wobbling now? In my opinion Betaflight is over thinking everything for all of us. Instead of returning to what works lets just add a " WOBBLE" button.

[@uavtech]

👍... that is a false narrative. Why so angry? Chill brother.

[@lf5133]

I think betaflight is going backwards. Quads used to fly pretty dame well out of the box so to speak now we have two sets of "Sliders" for all of the following....damping, tracking, stick response, drift, dynamic D, pitch dampening, pitch tracking, master multiplier, low cutoff frequencies, high cutoff frequencies, gyro lowpass 1 gyro lowpass2, gyro notch center 1, gyro notch 2, RPM filters, D-term lowpass, D-term lowpass1, D-term lowpass 2...we have constant frequency and yaw lowpass filtering. Is anyone else as confused as I am. When I got into this hobby a few years ago Betaflight made flying easier. Now we are all expected to be IT majors just to fly a damn freestyle drone. All this has to be keeping new comers from getting into the hobby. I was in this hobby nearly form the beginning and with my background Betaflight is loosing me. I can't imagine how a newb feels.

[@uavtech]

It is easier. Presets bud. You can turn them off too. Chillax.

[@jessefpv9217]

The slider tuning is not that good. My ds are so high like 58 & 60 my ps are normal sitting at 1.5 sliders are just junk. So much bounceback on flips and rolls better just to tune the numbers yourself

[@uavtech]

The sliders adjust the numbers and just make it faster. You can see, no bounceback for me at 1.0 Tracking slider. You probably have i-Term bounceback. Check out my video on that from last week.

[@jessefpv9217]

@@uavtech My I-term is sitting at default & it feels like it could go up a little I usually run my p gain around 80s and d around 33 my ps are around 69 and ds are 58 & 60 item relax is at 15 normal. filters are at 1.2 both by choice also I don't use feed forward it honestly messes my rates up it over shoots or its unpredictable so I don't use it.

[@uavtech]

Set i-term Relax to 10 and see how that does for you.

[@NowWattFPV]

Join my patron for al the info....... super lame.... super frigen lame.

[@uavtech]

Then don't. 🤷‍♂️ This video gave lots of informations. Patreons get even more for their support. Choose your pleasure.