How to Wire 3-Way Switches with Power to Light, Only 2 Cables and Neutrals in Both Boxes!

[@rickwashek478]

I don't think I have personally ever used a 4 wire that I can remember. Excellent video.

[@SparkyChannel]

I have a whole roll of 12/4 w ground but it's in MC. It's really nice cable. Thanks Rick! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@Sparky-ww5re]

I can't say I ever have either. Because 4 wire w/ground cable is a specialty item only used in very specific applications, where I work if we ever needed 4 wire we'd run two runs of 2 wire. A few weeks ago just finished roughing a house with a light/fan/heater combo in the master bath. I ran two sets of 12/2, the second set I used red and blue phase tape on the black and white respectively on both ends of the cable.

[@garydudgeon]

Another great explanation Sparky.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Gary! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@jamisongillespie3524]

I just changed my kitchen light into into a 3 way this weekend with power at the light. Wish this video had come out earlier.

[@SparkyChannel]

More to come! I wanted to create a series on power-to-the-light 3-way switch videos because so many folks with older homes (40's, 50's, 60's) have power run to their lights first. And of course I like to include appropriate current NEC articles because I hate when people just say the code is this or the code is that. Half the time they are wrong or out of date anyway. Thanks Jamison! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@jamisongillespie3524]

@@SparkyChannel my house was built in the 50s and so it was exactly that. However I also wanted to replace the cloth wire coming where I can, so I ended up just running new romex to the switch first and doing in that way. But I did ensure both boxes have a neutral!

[@SparkyChannel]

@@jamisongillespie3524 Excellent! I should do a video on that conversion. It would be too late for you but many others will be facing a similar situation in the future.

[@jasonscollection6357]

Wiring arrangement is still the most challenging thing for me. I never get it on the 1st or 2nd try.

[@wizard3z868]

thts ok your still saving $$$ and earning an education with out the CON with a con-tractor. lol

[@jasonscollection6357]

@@wizard3z868im a trade school graduate...$13k in the hole 😂 just very poor instruction.

[@wizard3z868]

@@jasonscollection6357 thts ok reminds of frnds who are union but have no clue how to run romex and use plastic boxes

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Jason! Lot's of wiring arrangements on Sparky Channel! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@tedmcdonald3377]

Great video Bill, thanks😊😊😊

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Ted! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@MrTooTechnical]

Great vid again!!!! And remember to mention the oversized boxes for future stuff

[@wizard3z868]

why if pros are to cheap along with do it yourselfers or they dont know than they are not skilled enough & shouldnt be attempting to do trades work its called trades work for a reason. only craftsman should be doing electrical work not con-men i mean professional contractors. lol

[@MrTooTechnical]

@@wizard3z868 I’m too important

[@wizard3z868]

@@MrTooTechnical lol 😂

[@MrTooTechnical]

@@wizard3z868 lol. Rock on baby

[@SparkyChannel]

I will mention the big boxes next video. I was watching a very popular electrical channel and he filled his little plastic box up with 3 cables including a 12/3, lots of wire twists etc. Then he smooshed everything into the little box with the end of his hammer and somehow stuffed the 3-way switch into it. Much better to pay a little more and use bigger boxes. LOL! Thanks Dave!

[@josianrodriguez1249]

GOOD VIDEO SPARKY. SOMETHING NEW FOR ME I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ONE..THANKS FOR SHARING IT.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Josian! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@carlkwasnjuk9518]

Great description. Just what I needed. Of course I want to figure out how wire photo cell before the light box.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@1acrehomesteader43]

Very helpful video, thanks for putting this one out. Answered a lot of questions for me!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@jforee8480]

I use 12/2/2 romex. Supply house keeps it in-stock. Same wire I use for heat/vent/light switches. It has white with red stripe instead of a blue.

[@njsongwriter]

Yes my local electrical supply house carries that as well but since I am just a DIY homeowner I won't be using it cause they only sell it in 250’ rolls. I'll just use two 14/2 cables. One will carry power/line and neutral and the other will carry traveler wires with the white painted either red or blue.

[@jforee8480]

@@njsongwriter I have used 2 pieces of 12/2 for hvl instal as well. Do you prefer stacked switches. If you use a single gang box and I stacked switch with 3 total 12/2 cables (1 in for power and 2 leaving to the hvl) then you are pushing box fill to its maximum or possibly past it depending on type of single gang box used

[@gregmojo3663]

Is it possible to add an outlet to the first switch? I have this configuration in my garage but the line into this switch has a hot white wire? My line in is 12/2 and line out is 12/3 (which goes to the other switch).

[@kmisercola7180]

Do you have a video or drawing on 3 way lighting, switches on each end power to light with 2 lights

[@mathman0101]

Sparky you have single handed my introduced Americans to Wagos. I hope you can do a separate longer Wago video introducing people to the list of some very nice Wago connectors like gel boxes, lighting connectors, plug-in winsta connectors and various type of din rail mount connectors and CP connectors. You can then show people where you would use them I am sure Wago can provide you with all the necessary graphics for that.

[@SparkyChannel]

I just wrote Evan from Wago. We're supposed to do a Zoom video so perhaps we can bring up some of those points then. It would be educational for me as well.

[@semperfi5861]

Can you use this source to run a few outlets in the same room? Thanks

[@victorpatino5875]

You generally want your lighting and receptacles on a different circuit. Is it feasible yes, but not ideal.

[@RJ-ej1nr]

This question gets into NEC section 210 as to what can be done with various branch circuits. As Victor said, it's a good idea to separate your lighting and general use receptacle circuits, if for no other reason that you don't lose the lights if someone plugs too much in late at night. There are some situations such as laundry, kitchen, and bathroom where a dedicated outlet circuit is required (210.11, 210.52) and that circuit is not permitted to supply lighting outlets or receptacle outlets in other rooms.

[@SW-lu9cu]

Great video as usual Bill.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@Eddy63]

Another well explained vid Bill ...

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Eddy! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@billdotpilot]

Bill great video as usual. Any chance u could do a video sometime on MC cable and fittings. Thanks

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, I have some wonderful newer MC fittings that work great that I would like to show. Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@JimmyDanieley]

Thank you sparkle

[@jobsucks]

Hi Bill! Can you make a video showing us how to wire 3-way switch with power coming into the switch box when the light is between the switches where the second switch is at the end of the run? This is the situation I have with my garage light. The first switch with the line cable is out in the garage, then the cable runs to the light and continues to the second switch in the utility room inside the house.

[@jpaul4595]

Very Nice Video, excellent demonstration. Do you have a video for the installation of a Furnace power switch with a screw in fuse door?

[@ginom5521]

love your videos they help me out a lot

[@ramblincapuchin9075]

When you have a mud ring installed, about how far does the switch come out from the wall? I'm used to everything being flush with the wallplate installed I can't imagine those things are for exterior use only (mud/plaster protection) since I can't recall the last time I've seen a three way switch outside

[@SparkyChannel]

I always use 1" or 7/8" mud rings outside. You plaster right up to them. They work beautifully for any exterior switch, receptacle or light. They have a variety of sizes available. Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@Sparky-ww5re]

I'm not sure about 14-4 W/G or 12-4W/G NM, but I have seen 12-2-2 W/G NM cable stocked at an electrical supply warehouse a few years ago. Don't remember the exact price but it was very pricey. It's really helpful for wiring split receptacles in new kitchens that now require AFCI & GFCI protection, and you cannot share a neutral. Like how many kitchens in the 80s, 90s & early 2000s, were wired, before just about everything required AFCI protection you could use a standard two pole 20 amp breaker and 12/3 feeding the two GFCI outlets for the first outlets and the downstream receptacles along the countertop, etc could alternate between the Red and Black phases and be standard or decora style receptacles, all run in 12/3 .

[@notperfect3630]

Ok who cares..make u a video 😅

[@williamcornelius]

Hi, I need a video of installing a ceiling fan, but having 3 way switches to the fan and the light separated. In other words, be able to come into the room, switch on the light or the fan, then leave the room at the other exit, be able to turn off the fan and then turn off the light separately. Also, do they make a double three way light switch?? If so what would it be called? Thanks. I love watching your videos.

[@SparkyChannel]

Cool! I could wire that for sure. I would use double switches on both ends each with 2 3-way switches. As a video that would be too long though I think. Each set of 3-ways would get it's own hot and each would have it's own load cable (leg) going to it's device.

[@thomasbonse]

From a training standpoint, I think providing a drawing could be beneficial for some viewers of your channel. (white board, for example) My recommendation would be to explain on the drawing, then demonstrate the correlation between the diagram components and their counterpart in the practical example.

[@bigliftm]

over here ground is Blue , Faze/ live wire is ( 230 vac ) brown. Switching wires ( a wire that comes after the switch ) is always black. Earth wire is the same yellow green. wires are pulled always through 5/8 pvc pipe or if needed 3/8 pvc pipe.

[@elc2k385]

Another informative video.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@ajcarrico1]

One thing I'm not sure of is can you always run two 14/2 cables instead of one 14/4? For example run power to a combo switch from a fan/light. You need a hot, switched fan, switched light and a neutral if desired. Of course two cables works fine, but is it code? And if so, which conductors should be together? Thanks

[@SparkyChannel]

I don't think there would be a problem but I'll have to check on that. Good question!

[@opietwoep1247]

Why is a ground wire needed on the box on the right? Doesn’t the metal BX (I think you call it something different) ground the box.

[@HoosierRallyMaster]

Because he didn't use BX. There are two different common cables covered in metal. One is called AC (Armored Cable) which is often called BX. AC is rated to carry a ground through the metal sheathing. The other kind is called MC (Metal-clad Cable) which is NOT rated to carry a ground through the metal sheathing.

[@opietwoep1247]

@@HoosierRallyMaster thanks i did residential wiring about 30 years ago in Chicago never worked with anything but Emt. I love watching his videos

[@wizard3z868]

may not be needed but i always run an egc no point in being lazy no real cost diff either when they charge like %500 markup funny how a plastic box is always like $5 or $6 but i can get an extra large one for $1.20 at big box store(lol i just checked they where like .65 cents with an old work at $1.33

[@SparkyChannel]

@@HoosierRallyMaster Thanks for the explanation, that was really good!

[@SparkyChannel]

@@opietwoep1247 Thanks! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@SassafrasSapling]

I see you like to use Leviton screwless wallplates in some outlets and switches also can you still make a video explaining in detail how to fix a HOT/GROUND reversed receptacle you have (How to fix an Open Ground, Open Neutral, Open HOT, Reverse Polarity and how to fix a Reverse Polarity Bootleg Grounded receptacle.

[@Cleofizoid]

Hey Bill, the link to the Playlist is bad. I think there's a typo in it...

[@SparkyChannel]

Try this: 3-Way Switch Videos by Sparky Channel: kzbin.info/aero/PLSD43kAzjUITMVlZecl7UcwfS1s--Es-3

[@tommycho9068]

Very good video. Thank you.

[@CDPMATH]

Hi Bill, great video as usual. What if the hallway has two lights, Would one connect the second light to the ground, neutral and red wire from the first light? Thank you very much and happy thanksgiving.

[@Jeff-Lawrence]

Hi Bill from Sparky Channel Blew the roof off with that one I’ve never seen 12/4 cable for sale. I’ll have to look. Guess you could make it. Would be handy to have. Wondering, would that be MC12/4 cable and do they make a NM version as well. I’ve heard of 12/2/2 NM..... So many types of cable Maybe a video one day showing all the types, uses, etc. One again, learned something new from you. Thanks again....

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, you can buy 12/4 NM or MC at electrical supply houses. Thanks Jeff! Have a great Super Sunday! 🏈

[@njsongwriter]

I can buy 14-2-2 locally but only in a 250' roll. Not something cost effective for me as a homeowner that doesn't need more than 35 feet. I can either use two 14/2s or I found a place online that sells 14-2-2 for 83¢ a foot.

[@jobsucks]

Why not make the black wire in the 12/4 cable be the “HOT” line wire. And make the red & blue wire travel. I think it’s simpler to connect the same colour wires together that have the same purpose.

[@davey6024]

We call that a 2way switch system in the UK as its switched from 2 points. Why is it called 3 way?

[@NipkowDisk]

I believe "way" is a very old name for "terminal", hence 3-way & 4-way switches. I read it somewhere a very long time ago.

[@PittsburghofCommander]

You could put your black hot on your common black screw from your first switch, black and red for your travelers, us the red switch leg from your first light and bcap it to the blue wire on but that blue wire on your common screw in your second switch, and use the same red and black as travelers as you did to the first switch.

[@notperfect3630]

Shut up he explained it fine

[@bigliftm]

as iam a dutch electeicien i must say your materials look so weird to me. Interesting but weird. We work with the code of the NEN1010 over here. Would be interesting to work with you on an job in the usa do. Think it will be like being back in the days as i was an apprentice and still in school. 🙈🤣 cheers mate 🍻

[@KingKongTube83]

thanks Mr sparky!! I now have the best fix option for my home. it's was not done with code because it wasnt required in 1983 cuz it was out of city limits questions: does it have to be #12 or #14 ok?

[@RJ-ej1nr]

This configuration of lights and switches can be done using #14 wire. Determining appropriate wire size across any given situation gets into many nuances of code, so I won't say straight up #14 is ok for you. However, oversimplifying for almost all residential applications, #12 is for 20A breaker circuits and #14 is for 15A ones. Match any existing wiring on that circuit and check that it matches your breaker size.

[@KingKongTube83]

@@RJ-ej1nr i was reading up on it. i put all led lights as replacements. i purchase some 15amp to replace old cabling to these lights. one will only have 2 led (60 watt) lights and 2 outlets. Another will have 6 leds(60w) lights with 5 outlets. so i believe it will be ok. this will also free up a 20amp breaker for my heater in master bathroom.

[@emmanuelochoa3557]

I had used 14/2/2 nmc (romex) also I believe there is 12/2/2 available..

[@thomasbonse]

availability varies by market and vendor, generally more miss than hit

[@njsongwriter]

Those are available locally where I live but you have to buy a 250 ft. roll. Not something I will ever do.

[@wizard3z868]

instead of 14-4 or 12-4 either run two cables together or 3X+ the price for the 12/2/2- 14/2/2

[@SparkyChannel]

That would work if you re-purposed the extra neutral to a hot. Then you would have 3 hots, a neutral and a ground wire. Good thinking.

[@njsongwriter]

@@SparkyChannel You just answered my question.

[@emmanuelochoa3557]

Could buy it in HD on line..

[@SparkyChannel]

I didn't know that, thanks!

[@njsongwriter]

The problem with 12/4 is that it is not available in lengths less than 250 feet. So you end up having to use two 12/2s instead.

[@SparkyChannel]

True.

[@njsongwriter]

@@SparkyChannel Actually, I did find a source online that sells 14-2-2 for 83¢ a foot.

[@aurvaroy6670]

You can get 12/2/2 instead of 12/4. Both have 4 conductors with ground

[@jerseyjim9092]

is using 2 runs of 12-2 in place of 12-4 code compliant?

[@Sparky-ww5re]

​@@jerseyjim9092 don't see why not. I've done that once or twice while wiring dead end three ways in renovations, when I also need to have a receptacle below the newly added 3 way. I ran two runs of 14-2. One for the power, another for the travellers. For the travellers I use phase tape and mark the black as red, and the white as blue. Never had any issues with the inspector.

[@oaw_manofnorse]

Bill, shouldn't it be "attempt" in the intro ?

[@SparkyChannel]

Oh man, I blew it on that one. Yes, of course you're correct. Thanks!

[@AsHellBored]

Can't you just put black tape on the white wire, designating it's repurposed as hot?

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes but you need the neutral to serve both 3-way switches though.

[@Marcel_Germann]

There's an alternative way of wiring this. On the alternative method you'll have the permanent line, the neutral, the ground and the switched line in all boxes. Black as permanent line connected on both switches to one of the traveller terminals. The red wire as switched line on the other traveller terminal of both switches. Connect both common terminals with the blue wire. That should look like this: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Sparwechselschaltung.svg/2000px-Sparwechselschaltung.svg.png This is also the method to go if you want to install control switches which have a neon indicator in them. They're used if you switch a light which you can't see directly. The neon indicator in the switches indicates the lights are on or off: I have this for my attic lights, the switch is in the floor below so you can't see the lights directly: Off: abload.de/img/img_0960xqkuv.jpg On: abload.de/img/img_0961kzjhp.jpg

[@HoosierRallyMaster]

What you are saying is not true. You will not have a Neutral in all boxes using the diagram you are showing.

[@Cleofizoid]

The whole purpose of this wiring method is to have a neutral in both switch boxes for future smart devices. Can't believe you typed that whole comment out and provided links. Right answer to the wrong question...wasn't that a Dr. John song?

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@HoosierRallyMaster The diagram is only showing the way the lines are switched, because the neutral is irrelevant for the regular switch. So they don't draw it into the schematic to prevent confusion. If you use the proper amount of wires in your cables, like Bill did, you will have a neutral, a line and a switched line in all boxes, and of course also a ground. We use this method here to install outlets next to both switches. And outlets require an unswitched line, neutral and ground....

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@Cleofizoid And with my method you'll have a n unswitched line, a neutral and a switched line in all boxes. If you want to retrofit a wall mounted light fitting later you can start from all boxes. And it's also possible to retrofit a smart switch later...