How To Write a Tragic Villain - Charles Muntz (Up)

[@DatJaneDoe]

My problem with a lot of stories with the message "just let go of the past" is the past will haunt you in more ways than mental. If Charles Muntz tried to make some other scientific discovery to regain his image no one would trust him, they'd just bring up the fabricated bird controversy and discredit him.

[@1000nod]

that is what made muntz a believable villain, he also had a extramural pressure that carl didn't have.

[@darksideofevil13]

But he made collars that allow dogs to talk, surely that would get him somewhere.

[@jalenikezeue4114]

You Either Die a Hero Or live Long enough to see yourself Become The Villain

[@Bogdan221192]

​@@darksideofevil13 "That's just radios". Every one else hearing about it first time, probably.

[@Leiliel1]

@@Bogdan221192 Thing is, there's more than one time they can see it. Hell, it's heavily implied Carl got rich off selling them in the epilogue.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

This is why people say, "Never meet your heroes."

[@DumbChaoticPhoque]

Yup

[@olleselin]

True

[@pcapcom5283]

Absolutely.

[@Scarrabociomemes]

Dr.disrespect and all the rest...

[@olleselin]

Yeah, I really admire how well written Muntz is as he's supposedly an idol of the protagonist and wants to be like him. And as the story progresses, Carl finds that his childhood hero isn't that what he was back then. Because Muntz had basically cut himself off from the world and has only focused on one thing in life. To regain his reputation.

[@benjamincarrillo6328]

It's not just that he made dogs talk. He was using an instantanious universal translator, in the 70's! wicht means he probably made it in the 50's or ever earlier. That shit would have chanched the world in ways I cant even imagine.

[@Joseph-fq9jv]

Fun fact: there was actually a plan to redeem Muntz that was storyboarded, and voice acted.

[@collegemaster5683]

"I promise to capture the beast, _alive_ !" "I'm talking him back with me, alive, or _dead_ !!!" Shows how far gone he is.

[@michaellysantos6723]

I am a writer for hobby and your analysis and step-to-step videos always help me create new concepts for my stories. This one, as well, it helped me a lot in the direction I wanted to give to my own tragic villain. Thank you so much and keep the good work!!!

[@xaviersaikaley]

The original ending would have actually have Carl talk down Muntz as they both accept their grief and moved on. Even though I love Up as is, I kind of wish they stuck with that ending since it could arguablely be more powerful for Muntz to finally let go of the past or even break down realizing how much of his life was wasted for a meaningless mission.

[@TaylorMclawhorn035_]

He did kill sometime though… so I don’t think they felt it was right for him just to move on

[@xaviersaikaley]

@TaylorMclawhorn035_ The main reason the filmmakers said they didn't have Muntz to be talked down is because they felt that the film needed to go out on a more action conclusion than a dialogue focused one. It would have been interesting to see how they can "redeem" a murderer, but I think it could have been interesting

[@xavierthomas5835]

​@xaviersaikaley He is a serial killer. He is entirely deranged. Not that he cannot in any way be redeemed; but I think it would be more cheap to try to do it in the last 15 minutes of the movie than to just have him pay for his mistakes with his own life.

[@xenoemblem7]

To think Charles Muntz is both: "Never meet your heroes" and "you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain"

[@peposagringa73]

i got an ad at the perfect time "before i get into that though I would like to tell yo-- that I've been using this ad block and you need to too!" lmao 😭

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Charles Muntz must've been a breeder if he was able to live with that many dogs.

[@Hammererdvideos]

He probably just didn't get them fixed. I mean, dude was in the middle of nowhere with no formal vet training

[@Galaxy-MediaX]

The overall storyline and plot is so well written.

[@somerandomaiden]

the dislikes are from muntz's alts

[@mr.mcnerdo]

What? What are Alts? Alternatives? Is that his victims? His competitors? His superiors? I'm not being snarky, I just looked it up as a word and found absolutely nothing except something about ALT keys.

[@denadeniil]

​​@@mr.mcnerdo It's a shortened way to say "alt accounts". When one person makes more than one account for themselves on a single website, it's an alt. Alt = alternate.

[@esimulator]

His alternate KZbin accounts

[@esimulator]

you might be overthinking slightly

[@riyoszu]

@@mr.mcnerdo when i’m in a overthinking competition and my opponent is Mr.Mcnerdo

[@AzureSiniy]

I never understood why Muntz saw the other explorers as "competition". Wouldn't their discovery of the bird have been a validation of his prior findings? Either way his name would gave been cleared like he wanted. The only thing I could see playing into it is greed and bitterness that he feels he is the only one to deserve any credit for the discoveries.

[@BobTheArchmage]

I think in his mind he twisted their intentions as trying to steal his discovery and claim credit for it themselves. Even though if he had logically thought about it, the explorer's wouldn't be able to claim it for themselves because someone would've just gone "Wait, that's that thing Charles Muntz discovered X years ago that we discarded as false!" But by the time the other explorers got to Charles, he was already too far gone in his obsession to think straight.

[@marcorodriguez8792]

This is why I always tell people that no matter how tragic or messed thier past might have been, you eventually have to learn to let it go and move on no matter how sad or horrible. Yes, you don't have to forget the past, but don't let it control and consume you in the present. It may be tough, but it just isn't worth letting your future getting ruined from it

[@Galaxy-MediaX]

Agreed!

[@Galaxy-MediaX]

Agreed

[@iceddjelly]

i love your videos so much dude i need more stuff like this... on my knees begging for recommendations guys

[@firehedgehog1446]

"Wait, this movie has a villain? I only watched the first 15 minutes" -most "Up" fans probably

[@smentertainment9008]

I know someone exactly like this, like how do you not remember a giant air ship full of talking dogs? /:

[@firehedgehog1446]

@@smentertainment9008 Somehow not surprised, so many people love to gush over the first 15 minutes of "Up" that i'm not surprised that there's somebody out there who has ONLY watched those first 15 minutes & never gave the rest of the movie the time of day unfortunately

[@anondabomb]

So he was kicked off his property for defending it from someone who was destroying it? New York, definitely New York.

[@asmallguy1138]

13:27 they actually do this in the spin off show. Russell learns how to make one and even tests it on a couple of animals.

[@n4jemnik136]

i remember i was in cinema watching this movie back in 2009 with my dad, i was 6 by the time the scene when the house started flying... unforgettable

[@guitargodzach4031]

When a crane pulls up? Sir that is no crane that hit the mail box

[@karolusmagnus8405]

Muntz is up there in regards of traguc villains. This movie..... UP..... is provably the best animated movie of th 21st century.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Fame got to his head.

[@BrownMan-gg7dx]

@8:29 shares a similar message to his "keep moving forward" from meet the Robinson. Even back then they knew hanging onto the past wasn't healthy

[@spiritvdc5109]

To be entirely fair... moving on from a public shaming by a large and respected part of society, is damn near impossible. We see people irl who have essentially had their lives ended in all practical terms by a false accusation, even if it was later acquitted - so if he had tried to propose anything else without clearing his name, everyone would likely have just assumed he was a fraud anyway, regardless of what he did. In the eyes of public opinion, once you're publicly branded with a single villainous trait, that never goes away.

[@antoniobranch]

Muntz would have lived his life after he captured and displayed Kevin to his critics... I wish Disney would make a sequel.

[@LegoLump]

Can you still do one on turbo or maybe a hero for change please.

[@NemzyVT]

I have an idea for a vidoe. The unpresent villan. A villan that we feel their evilness even tho they don't or rarely do by themselves. Like Sauron for example.

[@DarkkillywillyDemonkiller]

Yeah a true goat

[@kyoyaootori1104]

I appreciate the tiny Mirai Nikki reference. I'd love if you'd use anime in future analysis.

[@Gnnfgxkgzvxhk]

this guy is so fire

[@lynx8779]

For a second I forgot the entire plot of the movie, and thought the first scene was an act of domestic terrorisim

[@adilmyrat3210]

I wish Muntz had a redemption in the end😢

[@zennvirus7980]

Like many "redo" series have taught me, that takes work, time, and someone to drive that tiny sliver of goodness that can blossom crucially at the right time. Think John Silver in Treasure Planet. Jim Hawkins is there to give him that chance, and boy is it one of the best redemption tales in Western media.

[@LegoLump]

Can you do the villain from the book of life as well as tangled( just as a suggestion)

[@Amanda-zn7ox]

4:16 I'd argue that the doctor scene is Carl and Ellie discovering that Ellie had a miscarriage. It's why they excitedly started preparing for a baby. It's leagues more heartbreaking, and why Carl and Ellie don't just try again or adopt. That loss and grief is probably nothing they could ever get over. It happens plenty in real life.

[@SlotTH_Real]

2:36 JOJO REFERENCE???

[@thatoneXman]

So essentially "Tragic" does not mean "Gratuitous suffering as an origin." Good to know.

[@mr.mcnerdo]

I'm kinda glad Oswald was taken from the company. I'd rather hate a mouse than a rabbit.

[@thewanderingchelmet]

4:20 it is NOT disney, it's pixar!!! Not that souleess cash grab garbage incorpartion!

[@vortexluigi]

Ok? Is that seriously what you paid attention to? Your only criticism was “It’s Pixar not Disney”? Gosh, Don’t Nitpick and enjoy the video yourself.

[@InkyBlitz]

Parent company, same things these days anyway.

[@burburr8520]

this channel has separate people doing the script, editing, and voice work. details are gonna get fudged.

[@sheranoth2242]

Could you make a villain analysis on Firelord Ozai? But rather than analyzing his (lacking) backstory, analyze his place to contrast and shape Zulu and other characters in the show.

[@Shu_Is_Chu]

Hello Toon! I know you mostly write your analysis on movie characters villains but I was wondering if you could do an analysis on Alan Becker's stick figure villains please? I think it would be a very interesting video & I would love to see your perspective. - much love, bb.

[@ToonOfficialYT]

Stick Figures! That's one I haven't heard before. I think it might be a little to niche for me to make something about (as well as not having a clue about them right now really)

[@Xiaolruc]

@Toon I have only one critique to share: you state that Muntz falls to his death IN Carl's house, which isn't correct. Muntz gets his leg caught up in some of the balloon strings as he dives out the house's window after 'Kevin', and falls to his death. This video is well made, otherwise.

[@lilomega5257]

good video, but im only coitizing one thing, when you said Charles couldve used chocolate instead of chasing Kevin with a gun and an angry demeanor, i feel the need to bring up the fact homie lived with hundreds of dogs, and last i checked chocolate's not good for dogs so it kinda makes sense why he wouldnt have none lying around

[@kamilpilarczyk5049]

Idea: How to write a manipulative villain

[@Waluigiwatchwaa]

Now, this is one of my favorite villains, Nostalgia, he originally wasnt a villain, he was more an antihero, his job was to make and take villains, but Levi really messed with him, showing hes not as nice a guy as he seems, he was sadistic, enjoying the pain and fear of the wicked, but we couldve passed it off as justice, but Bone really cracked him, showing his lust for powerful evil souls that make him stronger, see, he was always shunned, outshined by his nicer brother Memory, who created heroes, and was genuinely likable despite being soft, everyone loved Memory, and said "screw the other one", in the final fight and his final scene revealing him as the villain, he brought along a girl from another multiverse, the villain's duality demon from a different multiverse, being him in almost every way, they fell in love and he protecyed her and saved her from her fate in her multiverse, as she had committed crimes that would get her killed if she hadnt escaped, he saved her and brought her along to try one last time to take Bone's soul, however, during the fight, his beloved died, falling in lava the same way Levi had begun his awakening as a character, he threw his burning hat at nostalgia to stop him from blasting Claire into nothingness and it worked! But he dodged it, and Raven got hit, she fell, he tried to save her but by tume she reached land again, she was dissolving into smoke, her last sign of life being a broken heart, this drove Nostalgia to the edge, he was immoblized on the ground, thoughts running through his head, with the last one being "i love you" from Raven/Dementia, he then snapped. Rising up, he fused the souls of every villain he had collected thus far into himself, becoming an abomination known as Horribly Ever After Nostalgia, an amalgamation of every major villain up till now (i havent explained them all but would love to in another fitting video), he then relentlessly attacks everything in sight, killing dozens, deleting them from existence, until eventually Rosalina jumps in, literally flying through his button eye to confront a part of his consciousness, while the rest if him fought Claire and Bone, eventually she is ejected from his head and he manages to impale Levi from the back of the chest with a spike of stone, capturing him at last "Gotcha, ha ha ha!" Memory swoops in and knocks his brother off of Levi's motionless body before his soul could be stolen "No! I've got you." "Wow, thanks Memory..." "WHAT?! NO!!!" In a 3v1 against such powerful characters, he didnt stand much of a chance, and hard as he tried, they all pierced him with their weapons (bone got his sword back from the twisted world in his 3rd story) and sent him back to his original form, greatly weakened, he tried to call of help from some powerful souls to keep fighting, but they all had freed themselves from him, and they said they wouldnt help him anynore "wait, what?" Nostalgia said, hurt emanating in his voice "ok, Scrappy? Youll help me right? You never pass up an opportunity to kill!" "Sorry," Scrappy screeched with his broken voice "you failed!" "Herobrine?! Youre loyal! We are friends! Youre my buddy!" As Herobrine simply says "We are, which is why as a friend im telling you it is over. You lost." Nostalgia panics "NO! PLEASE?! SOMEONE HELP!" Nobody will help him fight, not one soul will assist him, they all abandoned him. "ANYBODY?! EMPEROR?! ILL EVEN TAKE YOU! PLEASE!" "Youre not powerful anymore. You dont control us." A portal opens up, to the forest of dreams where Jay walks through, and clearly upset but in a warm, fatherly manner says "Nostalgia... come with me, ill fix you up, youll be good as new, without the grief. Whaddya say, son?" "NO! "so thats how it is going to be... very well, flutter, prepare his room if ya can? Thanks kiddo!" As he wraps the chain around Nostalgia, who kicked, screamed, and fought, but in the end was dragged in through the portal, his personality and mind were fixed and hes now a lot kinder and respects when hes beaten. So its not all bad, and rather than memories of Dementia/Raven making him angry toward his brother and Bone and Claire, he feels happy for the time they had together.

[@TheNotable_Shark]

One Minute ago let's gooo 🗣️🗣️

[@RedTail1-1]

If he was going to sail off with the entire house anyway.... Why wouldn't he just accept the offer and use that to fund his journey?... They don't want the house they want the land... He could still do the entire balloon nonsense...

[@Skeletongentleman7808]

Shh

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

It's out of principle.

[@amberfoster4106]

I wonder if the colars for the dogs would work on cats

[@zachtonight75]

Anybody noticed that there was actual blood in this obvious kid's film?

[@vonaubert4658]

I am Begging for a Vader analysis! PLEASE!

[@Quentinthesmartgamer1916]

You should talk about pitch black from rise of the guardians next.

[@matthewbrown3194]

Suggestion pitch black from rise of the guardians

[@claudiuskeat8336]

I'd argue the bird wasn't the biggest goal, nor was his "worth", but immortilization. Sure, Muntz could be immortalized by his talking dog collars and many more inventions he could have done. But his legacy will forever be stained by that one accusation that he fabricated the bird.

[@Everydayutilization]

They both used air ships in a sort of way 😂!

[@mrorphaneater2]

Do a video on ratigan my boy

[@jalenikezeue4114]

Why did Muntz Go So far It's simple his ego got in the Way

[@ozziefinale5184]

fun fact kevin the bird in disney/pixar's up is a peacock!

[@frostedcrim]

Christ mentions how those who's heart are stone cold will not be with him in paradise