How (un)democratic is the European Union?

[@p.bckman2997]

The EU Peace Prize had a lot to do with internal Norwegian EU-politics and not all that much to do whit whatever peace-work the EU was doing. The then head of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee was unabashedly pro-EU, at a time when around 70% of Norwegians was against joining. The Labour party, which he represented had actually lost badly the last few years before that, partly due to their pro-EU stance. At the time the price was awarded the EU, he was Secretary General of the Council of Europe, a fact that in the end tarnishing both him, the EU and EUs institutions in Norway.

[@yaff1851]

If you think that gerrymandering isn’t unfair since the disadvantaged minority still can vote and could theoretically outvote the bias with 100% turnout, then the EU is perfectly democratic. However, if you don’t think the above you cannot escape the reality that the EU system is MASSIVELY rigged against the possibility that a popular vote dictates policy. One such mechanism is that the parliament isn’t allowed to draft bills. So whenever the Council wants something, they make it a package deal with something the parliament wants so they can’t vote for the one thing and against the other. That just isn’t democracy by 21st century standards!

[@CrystalMaidenFeetLover86]

Imo you focus too much on the obvious, on the structure, and less on the incentives and the optics. The EU has been "abused" by national politicians many times as the best way to push through unpopular policies. They cry on national TV about how upset they are and how much they want to stop certain changes, only for their own party colleagues to lobby and vote for them on the EU level. Because once something has been established on the EU level there is 0% hope to fight it on a national level. In addition to that the EU "mainstream" is extremely leftist by international standards. While every group should believe what they want, the EU actively points out democratic backsliding in countries that are anti-LGBT or against Muslim refugees, while not doing anything about authoritarianism massively increasing in France and Germany for example. Those countries that are not part of the EU, but have certain market-conformity deals with it, have the best of both worlds and should not make the mistake of cannibalizing the little amount of democracy they still cherish by joining the EU.

[@jakeedwards6349]

Wow, great video on EU politics, man! This ought to have more views

[@briobernd5768]

In the EU, there is no strict separation of executive, legislative and judicial powers. Without separation of powers, democracy is unfortunately not possible!

[@ctepolitics]

It's true that the EU legislative contains national executives (via the Council of the EU), which can be seen as a mixing of powers. However, the same is true e.g. in Germany's federal system where the executives of the states (Länder) have legislative powers on the federal level via the upper chamber (Bundesrat). Yet, (almost) nobody would claim that Germany is not a democracy. A breach of the separation of powers does not immediately mean the end of democracy!

[@briobernd5768]

@@ctepolitics To prevent power from being exercised in an uncontrolled manner, there is the separation of powers, which is a foundation of any democratic order. Its purpose is to prevent those who have political power from abusing it. The 3 powers (executive, legislative and judicial) have the task of controlling each other - the cornerstone of all liberal legal systems!

[@mmnetronron]

@@briobernd5768 You don't seem interested in studying the above mentioned german system. And it sounds a little unimaginative to claim "Without separation of powers, democracy is unfortunately not possible!" If you think about it, a carbon copy of an existing system of separation of powers makes no sense when there are parliaments in the individual countries that have to agree. A EU-Super Parliament that trumps a country parliament is NOT how it's supposed to work. You sound a little like some british eurosceptic. :-)

[@briobernd5768]

@@mmnetronronThe Council of Ministers, together with the Parliament, carries out legislation - the legislative power - in the EU. This repeatedly encounters criticism: After all, its members are part of the "Executive" in their nation states. The democratic principle of separation of powers is thus not respected.

[@briobernd5768]

@@ctepolitics ​ Unlike the German Parliament (Bundestag), the European Parliament has no right of initiative and therefore cannot introduce its own bills. This makes it impossible for the EU Parliament to perform its most important democratic task, which is the right to propose legislation.

[@danditto6145]

That’s designed to hide who did what vileness.

[@EuropeanQoheleth]

sigh Another conspiracy theory.