How Was This Not a Home Run?

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[@crichards1986]

At least he ended up at third base. How many ML'ers would be lollygagging down the line and barely get a double out of that?

[@ohger1]

Gleyber Torres would have been thrown out at first on a close play..

[@scottmcshannon6821]

a third would still be standing at home and have trouble getting to first.

[@andyd5492]

@@ohger1 HA HA I was going to say the same thing! Yankee fan.

[@rslitman]

Bryce Harper did something like this on September 9 against Tampa Bay. With the score tied 1-1 leading off the bottom of the 9th, he thought he hit a walkoff homer and paused to admire it before realizing it was still in the ballpark. Had he gone full speed from the batter's box, he would have gotten a double, but he had to settle for a single. Fortunately for the Phillies, he did come around to score the winning run eventually.

[@davidchodds]

Or a single.

[@wink14304]

It had to hit the corner of the ledge just perfectly. I guess.

[@marks7445]

It definitely hit the leading edge / corner of the ledge. Replays during the game had an angle from the side, from more towards center field that gave a clearer view of the point of impact. And after the announcers saw it, one of them said that if we could see that ball it would have had a significant cut on it.

[@williamsharlow3696]

This is the answer. No way backspin would have bounced it back.

[@mikefagan6840]

That's how we used to play Stoop ball in Brooklyn back in the day. Also called Off the point. 😉🤘🤘👍

[@joshuaanderson4090]

First, thank you! For having views where we can see the ball and whats happening when. (The problem isnt the zoomed out view it has some distinct advantages, as youve pointed out. The problem is no other views to supplement it, myself and probably many other viewers are on phones. Meaning we cant see ball or bat on the zoom out). Second, im gonna posit two theories: A the ball actually hit something not obvious that sent it back and should have been a homer. B the ball had lost a lot of energy and was coming straight down onto the top of the fence, with a slight backspin still and came back. Also the fence probably isnt perfectly flat and has a slight tilt toward the field of play

[@spiritculture4401]

So. 1. The top of the wall is probably a typical cement block--a rough surface that will embrace the spin of the ball. 2. Trajectory--this is a homerun-like ball that has some pop-up characteristics and some opposite field. The ball will come down closer to vertical than when it leaves the bat, thus the spin of the ball can become more of a factor than a line drive skimming the wall. 3. The 98 mph pitch seemed to tail into the hitting zone slightly with a little topspin to clockwise spin. Hitting the ball to the slight opposite field may have increased the rotation speed of the ball--more backspin than usual. In tennis, there is a backspin lob that can behave like this.

[@stevethompson8154]

I suspect the ball hit exactly on the 90 degree corner where the vertical wall and horizontal top shelf meet. Back spin also had to have some influence. Add it up and this is the result.

[@vanglez765]

I completely agree.

[@Bobby2Times-p5l]

Casual fan here, but imo the high view of the Yankees' outfielders converging on the infield in your "Horrendous Base Running by Nationals..." video was cool to watch.

[@jimyeats]

It’s not a problem as an additional option, and it’s fine to utilize it to provide a good over view, but it’s not great when it’s the ONLY view. For the last large chunk of videos that has been the only view, regardless of whether other views would be better.

[@psra8er512]

The ball hits the top cap of the brick wall, goes forward ( not backwards) hits the blue 90 degrees corner of the wall then thats when it shoots backwards onto the field. Its kind of like an optical illusion. When it first hits the top of the wall it "looks" like its going backwards when it's actually going forward.

[@Fritbjorn]

I think that is most likely the cause, either that or backspin. The grip it would have had on the top of that wall would have been close to the same as sandpaper so it could have had enough spin to come back in, no way to know really. I was watching this game when it happened and no one could figure out what the umpires were talking about.

[@tchevrier]

it looks like you are correct. It looks as if it hits that grey thing just below the blue scoreboard and bounces back.

[@timeonly1401]

This is my theory. After the bounce of the flat top of the wall, the ball still has horizontal velocity (directly away from home plate), it hops high, and heads toward the blue board which is clearly visible, but the ball leaves the frame of the camera... and THAT is where it bounces off the blue... and makes it come back toward the outfielders. Is that blue board considered part of the wall or outside the wall?? Anyone know? If the former, it's a triple. If the latter, then it's a homerun. That the refs/ump declare it a triple, are they not saying that the blue is part of the wall, then?? Then again, maybe they didn't see that it hit the blue, and though it hit the edge where the top & front of the concrete wall meet... Tough call.

[@MwD676]

@@timeonly1401 Blue scoreboard is clearly well behind the wall which is the home run boundary. No chance that it touched blue and ricocheted back to the field.

[@jasonpendergraft4511]

After my Zapruder film type analysis…it looks like after the ball hit the cement block it did follow towards the stands. But after that it glanced off the scoreboard screen and changed direction.😂

[@tonyadamis4171]

And then the ball went on to hit John Connolly in the shoulder.

[@hyperkoala1758]

I love the high view for fielding and baserunning breakdowns. Not sure why everyone is whining about it, it's the best way to see everything together.

[@jimyeats]

No one is whining about that view for getting an overall idea of what’s happening, or to break down an aspect, but it’s frustrating when it’s the ONLY view.

[@grithog5399]

The problem is the resolution is so poor in that view that you can’t see the ball.

[@alcoraces]

There is a very clear view of this that the game broadcast showed, the ball hit the edge of the wall exactly on the angle and very clearly bounced straight back into the field of play. No bounce off the blue scoreboard, no bounce off anything behind the wall. It was odd to see but it definitley hit the wall and came straight back into the field of play, and this was the correct call in the end.

[@RJohnson2024]

I think it bounced off the wall and then hits that blue wall behind it and caroms off and back into the field. Look closely in slow motion and there's a moment where it appears to have an altered trajectory

[@chuckm260]

That's my take also. However, if that was the case then it should have been ruled a homerun.

[@davidwolfe7145]

Agreed. At about 1:20 in the video, Antonelli almost goes frame-by-frame. The ball bounces off the top of the wall and hits either the blue wall or something right beneath it, then bounces back on the field. If this case, the ball is still in play, and it's not a home run. Unfortunately, without a side angle, it's difficult to see this. The umps don't have a side angle view, either.

[@Hoop27]

That's one more MLB homerun than I've got. 😂 Just for some feedback I like that far back view as well to see the whole field, though it does help to have some closer views when appropriate.

[@Keifsanderson]

The top view would be great, IF you did some overlay drawing on the screen before you pressed play. Like the football folks do. Circling people and drawing lines and arrows. I suspect folks don't like the overhead because it's hard to figure out what's going on. I can't see the ball.

[@fuhkerz]

Hey this is a really good idea. I also suspect the reason some people don't like it is because they are on mobile. So they're dealing with an already small screen plus KZbin by default loads a lower resolution version on mobile devices, making it even harder to see. Can't say for sure that drawing on it would help those things or not, but it seems like it would. Either way, it would definitely help explain what's going on.

[@jimyeats]

Appreciate you providing some other views when the breakdown calls for it! The broad over view camera angle is great for certain things too, it just depends on what type of video and if more detail is needed. Thanks again.

[@mikefargo4339]

The ball appears to hit the light fixture at the bottom of the blue scoreboard, as it bounces off the top of the wall... redirecting it onto the field.

[@PedroSanchez-mg1bd]

I agree. It hits something in the blue panel or area, so when it hit the top of the wall, it was already moving towards the field.

[@ryanstockdale1678]

I love the high view on plays that we are trying to watch what players are doing away from the ball. Honestly I would have love to see the high view of smith running the bases. So many major league guys would be watching the ball and barley get to second so it good smith run hard and got the triple.

[@MindGameArcade]

I love the high view videos!

[@tonyadamis4171]

An interesting tell is the reaction of the CF, who presumably knows the park. He's moving backward to field this ball before it comes back to the field. It's possibly just an anticipation that the ball would come off the front of the wall, but it sure looks like he's seen this movie before.

[@GregMcNeish]

I'm assuming that this is the backspin, and not that it skipped off the grey box above & behind the wall (below the blue area). Something to keep in mind with the backspin is how much the stitches of the ball play into rotational physics. Just like it's the stitches that create the extreme curve effect of pitches, if the stitches came down on the wall with just the right spin, it can have a pretty extreme ricochet. Heck, just think how much you can mess with spin and rebound angles on a pool table.

[@baseballsux2]

High view is great in certain contexts. Keep using it as appropriate.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Mechanical engineer here- yep, backspin would do it if the ball essentially hit straight down. That said, how is this not a HR? How is there not a yellow line at the top of that wall?

[@vwnut13]

Yellow line or not it wouldn't have been a home run. The ball has to go over the fence to be a home run.

[@BenChokin]

If you watch closely, it looks like it hit that long gray box tucked up underneath the blue facing of the stands. It might be the slow motion effect, but it looks like the box wiggled when the ball hits it.

[@tchevrier]

that was what it looked like to me

[@IMQofBorg]

I’m all but certain that it’s a combination of the backspin paired perfectly with contacting the edge of the seam that gave it enough backwards momentum.

[@PedroSanchez-mg1bd]

I think it hit the blue panel just before hitting the top of the concrete fence. That way it came at an angle towards the field when it hit the top of the fence. It’s almost impossible to notice when you watch the video but I perceived that when you were going back-and-forth in the video.

[@David_K_pi]

I thought maybe when it bounced off the top of the wall it skimmed the blue wall farther back and ricocheted back onto the field. Either way, it probably touched the blue panel on the way down or the way back up and that gave it momentum toward the field.

[@David_K_pi]

Also, there might have been a breeze deflecting off the blue wall which would have pushed the ball away. But that would have been a heck of a breeze to push it that far. At 1:20, it appears that the ball changes direction toward the left. That's why I think it hit the blue wall. But I'm guessing. 🥴

[@abassplayer4life]

Anybody that played in the streets in the 70s is quite familiar with Off The Point. That ball hit the field-side point of the wall. The ball could only bounce towards the field. I was in a game where there was a telephone pole laying parallel behind the left field fence. Batter hits a rocket that hits the pole and fires back onto the field. The ump thought it hit the top of the fence and stayed in play. In good sportsmanship, the left fielder told the ump what had happened and the batter was given the home run.

[@tonyadamis4171]

Good sportsmanship? Man, that proves that was in the 1970s.

[@abassplayer4life]

@@tonyadamis4171 That was the 90s.

[@stuartmcalpine9468]

It’s very simple: Magic. It could have been a leprechaun. A ring of three wishes. A genie. Some magical beings have the power to grant wishes too.

[@chrisadams5587]

The top surface is slightly sloped for drainage. 2:05

[@bradyoves1046]

We need a baseball bat bros and Antonelli collab

[@stephenruether8216]

Backspin, happens in golf all the time. Also I like the far shots you do showing the whole field. Don't stop because of the haters. I bet more people like it than don't.

[@disneydanny2]

my *GUESS* when they called up NY to review it, Angel Hernandez intercepted the communication,

[@alvinthecat8426]

They said it hit the corner dead on?

[@JetLagRecords]

Antonelli Baseball, great content I really liked it

[@johnduffy532]

Did you ever play stoop ball in front of your house? When the Spaldeen rubber ball would hit the stoop exactly where the vertical bricks meet the horizontal surface, the result is exactly what happened with this baseball.

[@RJohnson2024]

Question. If a ball hits the fence and the outfielder catches it off the fence and it doesn't hit the ground, I take it that's not an out. As soon as the ball makes contact with a structure in fair territory, it's a hit?

[@poppacheese]

Could only be backspin maybe aided by a rough surface on top of the wall? Another question... the top of the wall appears to be wider than the yellow top of the fence to the left, and the ball looks to have hit past the yellow line so why isn't it a home run anyway?

[@jarredmattingly5369]

You know how those bouncy balls sort of bounce counterintuitively than one would expect. It could have something to do with that. Steve Mould has a channel on KZbin that covers this, and I'm not saying that the phenomenon he describes is the culprit here, but possibly... And you could reach out to him, as he makes content currently, is very intelligent, and I'm sure he would love to help you out.

[@aralornwolf3140]

The ball was rotating... it hit and bounced, however the rotational velocity was then transferred into horizontal velocity. *Shrugs* Same thing as putting spin on a bouncing ball to force it to return to your hand after you throw it.

[@ronpeacock9939]

if it hit the front corner, I could see this. without a CF or foul pole view... that's just a guess unless it hit the top hit beyond and came back (which should be an HR).. but without a CF camera view.. luck is my best guess.

[@joejaszczak]

It bounces back like that in golf. So I guess it could happen in baseball 🤷‍♂️

[@skyy256]

The ball bounced off the top of the wall ( skidded really) and off the red mating behind causing it to just carom back onto the field…. How it’s not a hr i have no clue …. lol

[@jacobgoudreault6680]

I agree, hits the top of wall then proceeds forward to hit the red wall and bounce back.

[@spcbaseballvideos7210]

Ever so slightly banked surface and would have had to hit perfectly on the laces to bank backwards is my guess.

[@MwD676]

2 homers in the bigs is like TWICE as many as 1. :)

[@dbach1025]

Easy physics if I am correct.. I did not watch this in slow motion, but pretty sure the ball quickly and discreetly hit the blue wall and came back to the field.

[@alonzobean1]

Occam's razor. Backspin.

[@swankgd]

I swear there was one angle on the broadcast that made it look like it went over and actually bounced off the blue video board. But it was definitely not conclusive.

[@damonthomas2975]

I mean unless it hit the ledge/corner I don't see how it's possible without hitting something behind it. If it did in fact just hit the edge of the top of the wall to create that backwards pop up then that has to be one of the most precise shots I've ever seen. Not that he was aiming for that obviously but damn, a centimeter difference in any direction and that doesn't happen. Crazy.

[@jcflindsay]

Got to be it hit the leading edge of the wall with backspin assisting. I've seen balls do weird jumps but on second ground contact.

[@lucashankins9425]

Maybe they make a PRO V1 baseball now?

[@davidjordan6587]

It bounced off the top of the fence cap and hit the blue scoreboard.

[@petergallay2900]

Backspin IS the answer. If the ball is spinning back toward the field, then when it hits the flat surface it will ricochet in the direction that it's spinning, ie, back onto the field. It's like putting bottom English on a cue ball in pool; it causes the ball to reverse its direction when it hits the object ball.

[@jonathanh4443]

This is relatively easy to demonstrate with any ball, just spin it backwards and drop it, then spin it forward and drop it. It's impressive that a ball flew that far with that amount of backspin and hit exactly the top of the fence. A few inches further and the spin wouldn't have mattered.

[@ohger1]

That's not the answer - considering the height of the ball and that it was falling at 32f/s2, the speed the ball hit the wall would negate most of the moment the backspin would provide, which was declining anyway with every revolution while the ball was in the air. We also know that for that ball to have gone that far, there couldn't have been that much backspin on the ball otherwise it would have been a higher, shorter pop up.

[@johnmorriss5308]

Where's the blue score board in the Ground Rules Photos? It CAN'T be close to the brick wall, or else the photos are aout of date...

[@micahsinclair13]

Maybe it's possible that the laces on the ball hit just right and caused it to come back in to play!

[@indisputablefacts8507]

looks to me like it hit around the back edge of that fence, then bounced into the blue wall behind it, then bounced off that into the field. Seems like it should have been scored a home run since it hit something beyond the fence.

[@josephvogler8010]

The ball would have had forward spin, more so than reverse spin. Thus causing the ball to bounce forward, off the red wall, & back on to the field!

[@Mitten4371]

First to me I thought this ball might have hit the top of the wall and it hit the blue screen after that but that's why as a base runner you never assume anything

[@skendig214]

Hit the corner of the wall and bounces straight up in the air. From there it's 25% it falls left, right, foward, back. I don't understand how it's not a Homer or ground rule double off that though.

[@nateballou3321]

That ball must've had some wicked backspin on it when it hit top of that wall to bounce back onto feild like that!? That's about only thing I can think of that could cause ball to go back onto feild like that!? Only other thing I can think of would be that it hit with lots of backspin and maybe also hit wall or something after it bounced off top of wall!? But really kinda looks like it just had tons of backspin!? It must've landed with lots of backspin and just happened to land just right on a seam at same time which combined with the backspin maybe launched it back onto field!? That's about all I can think of as to y it'd have bounced like that!?

[@tinderbox218]

Obviously bounced off the blue wall or something else just out of camera view.

[@BarbYork-w2h]

So I think it was reds v cards last week. Fan reached over the fence caught the ball. MLB made a rule for this. But on instant replay it shows it wouldn't been a home run. But on review they called it a home run. Do a video on that one

[@hardyworld]

Perhaps this video by Steve Mould can help understand how the backspin can make this occur: kzbin.info/www/bejne/npjGdnyBfah8ZpI The impulse affects both angular and linear momentum (which are both conserved); with the high angle of impact of this HR (less horizontal momentum than a typical HR path), the spin can actually send the ball into the field if it has sufficient spin (as we see here).

[@sweatpants235]

In my opinion, it bounced almost straight up but hit the blue scoreboard and ever-so-slightly changed direction back into the playing field. Should have been a homer.

[@uncletrick1]

Backspin!!!!

[@furyofbongos]

If it hits the corner of the edge just right for sure it can come back like that.

[@michaelfitting1164]

Looks like it may have took a short hop into the blue panels and then bounced back into the field.

[@marks7445]

It did look like that to me too when it was initially shown. But when a side view was shown that didn’t happen. Just hit that front corner.

[@efoxxok7478]

A y golfer will tell you it’s not impossible. Physics answer Back spin is the start but add to that the fact it’s outward momentum has been decreasing since it left the bat which makes have a steeper trajectory at the wall then you might think. Finally if the texture of the wall is rough it will give the ball more grip when it hits. Think of the bat striking a fast ball, if the underside of the ball is hit with sufficient force and at the right angle it will reverse the spin the pitcher put on the ball when he threw it.

[@smudent2010]

had to be backspin like crazy

[@billgillingham9125]

spin

[@lauxmyth]

Spin, baby spin. I think it should be called a HR.

[@justfun985]

The ball hit the top of the wall (witch should be a home run). It the hits the blue lit squares a glancing blow above the wall and bounces back into the field of play. This is the Yankees so it is not called a homerun. Had it been hit by a Yankee it would have been call a HR.

[@umpireJoe991]

The ball came back for 2 reasons. the top op the wall has a really rough surface. and the ball had a lot of backspin.... not rocket science................

[@AntonelliBaseball]

I’m glad you are smarter than me lol

[@CmdrVOODOO]

It came back because of the backspin, 100%.

[@sophocles1198]

I like your aerial views, but I am watching on a desktop with a good-sized screen, not on my cell phone.

[@FUGP72]

At least he was on 3rd. Soto and a lot of players would have gotten a single. Or worse, thrown out at second. Or even worse worse...injured himself making an awkward slide at second

[@vickurtz8986]

Hit wall than the blue wall behind and came back.

[@patobrien7009]

Forget spin, how is any ball hitting the top.of that wall NOT a homerun?? A ball hit that far only a few feet to the left would land in the bullpen and be a homer. Makes no sense.

[@MarinePigVa]

Looks like it hit the corner of the concrete. If they look at the ball, they would find a dent in the ball probably.

[@danNat978]

Cant believe you wanted to punch someone

[@scottmcshannon6821]

there isnt a park rule that makes hitting the top of the wall a homerun? the hitter obviously employe to much back spin.

[@daviddecelles8714]

No, the local ground rule must be that the ball must go over the wide white entablature on top of the brick wall to be an out-of-the park home run. It's true that in many parks with much narrower top ledges, it's a home run if it hits on top of the ledge and does not have to clear it.

[@normnicholson]

must have landed on the inside edge of the wall

[@frederickschulkind8431]

If the ball hit the padding after bouncing off the top of the wall, then it should have been a home run.

[@ELKORA2324]

That’s a home run

[@cwj9202]

Per the MLB rule book, it is not a homerun, as it hit the top of that wall and then bounced back into the field of play and not into any dead ball area. The physics of the trajectory of the ball after landing on top of the wall would indicate that surface is slanted slightly toward the outfield. But then again, if the fly ball was descending straight down with its customary back spin, that could also cause the ball to ricochet into the outfield. Could be a combination of both effects.

[@genesispuredeaf2390]

Spin and physics are muting the obvious…there was a piece of bird do-do that it hit.

[@ohger1]

You know the answer Matt - the ball hit the blue part of the wall after it contacted the top of the wall and changed direction back toward the infield.

[@thomasboyd6242]

Not a home run because it didn’t leave the park. Either back spin or hit the corner just right

[@patrickwilson2650]

That's a home rin

[@briangulley6027]

One home run in the majors but forever known as Babe Antonelli in Road to the Show.

[@swagmuffin9000]

bro never played wallball or 4 square in elementary school

[@Fritbjorn]

Backspin i.e. English, guaranteed.

[@richvictorin9029]

Baseball is stupid. Why is it different in every ballpark? Why isn’t marked very clear where is a home run and where is not. All other sports, the playing field is clearly marked. Baseball is just stupid!

[@preston74]

Because Will Smith didn't hit it hard enough. 😂

[@mikefagan6840]

Hitting the top of the wall and bounces back into play without touching anything outside the field of play is IN PLAY in every park in MLB. Duh