HOW WOULD GUILLIMAN REACT TO A LORGAR RETURN?

Hi all Rho here!
Today we ask the question just how would Roboute Guilliman react, if his traitor brother Lorgar returned? If the Primarchs of the Ultramarines and Word Bearers were to meet, one more time...
General Spoiler Warning to begin! As we will be discussing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe! So you have been warned!
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[@AbadonXXX]

Roboute as he loads the hand of dominion: I just wanna talk to him Corvus: *appears ahead of guilliman* the line starts behind me

[@plaugemarine]

Roboute: Nonsense brother, He has two ears. I'll pick left you can get the right. Roboute being a diplomat.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

YOU ARE WEAK CORVUS

[@HTWW]

@@ryansauchuk7290 Thank you, Ferrus. I know.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

@@HTWW YOU ARE ALL WEAK!!!

[@johnd2058]

This but on the TT and looks exactly like TTS.

[@Arkantos117]

It would be funny to see Lorgar doing another very slow crusade slowly converting entire planets. So slow that they don't even notice what he's doing for a while.

[@michaeldillon7072]

Would be even funnier as soon as he converts a planet and get ready to move on the Nids show up and eat everything. So he would have to start all over from skratch. then the Orks wipe that planet and he has to do it again the then the necrons wipe the 3rd planet, and so on and so forth . Always trying to convert and then all his new converts die over and over.

[@Mitchmyoutube]

Imo lorgar is the best primarch to return with the current state of things. First thing would be his history with gulliman, lorgar is really the only primarch who knew what he was getting into with chaos and the heresy, he is the only one that really understands the gods even now, he understands the imperial cult more than Gulliman, and ofcourse gulliman probably hates him more than any other. But also he probably would like to ask him for actual answers

[@neogod29]

Corax hates Lorgar more than anyone else, since his legion was all but destroyed by the betrayal of word bearers.

[@Mitchmyoutube]

@@neogod29 I would say after the surprise attack gulliman hates him a lot lol

[@mannmannmanifred1316]

Regardless of who hates him more, that fact of the matter remains that Lorgar returning would make things VERY interesting, and with Corax hunting him down, could lead to his eventual return as well

[@neogod29]

@@mannmannmanifred1316 the question is, what has Corax become? Will he even be recognizable?

[@Mitchmyoutube]

@@mannmannmanifred1316 I am absolutely ready for a devil raven coming to murder lorgar lol

[@DefaultProphet]

“Wow I can’t believe Corax immediately killed Lorgar after he came back. Wild” Just a very Grand Opening, Grand Closing moment

[@MrJara1018]

I wish , Corax is totally gonna drop the ball

[@DefaultProphet]

@@MrJara1018 yeeeeeah but how amazing would it be if they did a huge promo campaign about Lorgar and then just killed him off with a surprise Corax model return

[@LoganSearles]

@@DefaultProphet that would be fucking amazing or that they bring him to the Emperor in Chains

[@markmueller-rougier3098]

On the could Lorgar be redeemed video, I pointed out even if he is Corax would kill him on site. Even if big E was standing there saying I have redeemed your brother, Corax's only thought would be good now he's standing still. Slice

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

*Lorgar comes out of his room* Corvus: GOTS YA BITCH *Lorgar dies* Sounds like a nice way to bring back Corvus.

[@wchamp170]

Bobby G would tell lorgar, that he was right and our father is a God… and your 4 gods are absolutely terrified of him

[@RA10H56]

Joking aside, could Lorgar find redemption? Could the emperor forgive him? Could Lorgar forgive himself?

[@Nyghtking]

I would like to hear something like "You were right, our father is a god, but your four god aren't and never will be worth worship." Maybe because I kind of want to see the traitor primarchs show a tiny bit of regret for the choices they've made, like Lorgar having a small moments of doubt when he's alone, looking at what chaos has done and how they bicker like children, more focused and destroying each other then they are anything else, and he thinks for but a moment that there isn't a future here, chaos will inevitably destroy itself after it had destroyed everything else, but he disregards those doubts and continues forward.

[@RA10H56]

@@Nyghtking agreed. LORGAR would be like there is no redemption for the past only the long war for mankind's future.

[@seymourfields3613]

I can see Guilliman putting faith into the Emperor's divinity after speaking with Lorgar, and the faith of a Primarch pushing the Emperor back into life on the golden throne. We know worship brings him power.. the worship from a Primarch, born by warp magic, has got to be a boost to the Emprah

[@jeambeam3173]

I dont think it have much of an impact tbh. Yeah a primarchs soul has a higher presence in the warp compared to a normal human but compared to billions of people times a million worlds who worship him thats like dropping a bucket of water into the ocean

[@Cottam89]

that makes no sense.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Bobby G: "So you decided to crawl out of your hellhole and finally face me for a rematch!" Lorgar: "Don't think so highly of yourself 'b r o t h e r', I'm actually running away from Corvus."

[@henryviiifake8244]

Corax: "Caw! Caw! Er, I mean: _SURPRISE, MOTHERF*CKER!_ 😤"

[@kellerblair2952]

Corvus GET BACK HERE I JUST WANNA TALK I PROMISE

[@jessejamesroy0069]

Lorgar is not afraid of corax anyone who has read the first heretic knows this he only retreated to process what corax has become

[@danieldunedein7012]

Hilarious :D

[@kellerblair2952]

@@jessejamesroy0069 Right Lorgar temporarily broke his exile to aid Word Bearers against a monstrosity that was hunting them. The creature was eventually revealed to be Corax, who had become mutated by the powers of the Warp during his quest for vengeance against the Traitor Primarchs. Lorgar and Corax engaged in a duel once more, with the Ravenlord dominating the engagement and forcing Lorgar to withdraw through the portal he had arrived in. As the portal between them closed, Corax stated that he now had Lorgar's scent and would hunt him down.[

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

I’m pretty sure the Mark of Calth is still ticking along. As such, I feel like Roboute Guilliman is going to want to have “words” with Lorgar, but the ones punctuated with bolster fire not the talky ones. Now Lorgar is a chatty bloke & he’d love to rub things in Robby’s face.

[@MrFallenone]

Didn't they finish that by burning Colchis? Pretty sure they did.

[@jamesneese7663]

Burning Colchis would not BEGIN to balance the scales; esp given that the Word Bearers had already abandoned it to the Imperium's mercy.

[@HaloFTW55]

@@MrFallenone The Mark of Calth isn't stopping with Colchis burning, the Mark will only end when every member of the XVII Legion is dead and erased from memory.

[@Inshabael.]

@@HaloFTW55 That will never happen, the imperium and all its fanboys will seeth with what is coming your way.

[@iloveplayingpr]

Would be an interesting Lorgar Return, if Corvus isn't camping in front of his door all game.

[@morgothastartes]

Lorgar is on warp twitter writting angry tweets at corax being camper

[@individual2122]

I bet after Roboute saw the ecclesiarchy and Lorgar's book he said to himself, " that...bastard".

[@AlphaCocoAudio]

What papa smurf needs is for father Vulkan to come back and get a hug. The reunion he never got during imperium Secundus

[@WR288]

I’m sure he’d spam Lorgar’s DMs with gifs of the Ultramarines genociding Colchis during the scouring.

[@Aurora-313]

I can honestly see Guilliman wanting an honest dialogue with Lorgar before coming to blows, or simply saying nothing and wanting to take his rage out on Lorgar since all that the imperium now believes are from the seeds he planted. I can lean towards the former a bit more because Guilliman even raises the questions of 'what is a god and how does one define a god' in so many words to an Aeldari farseer and one of his Libarius council after explaining Lorgar was the one who wrote the lectitio divinitatus, and more or less the entire chapter dedicated to that discussion. And especially the conclusion of that conflict with Mortarion. Dude went supersaiyan for a few minutes. At the same time, him just beating Lorgar for no other reason than catharsis works too.

[@Baamthe25th]

This made me realize there's more to this Guilliman-Lorgar rivalry than I thought Lore wise, I saw Gulliman as just a pawn doing the Emperor's bidding when he wiped Lorgar's city, so his role wasn't that interesting. But now, there's thematics conflict.

[@williamscottshelton945]

Lorgar shows up starts taunting Roboute Guilliman then the Lion shows up Lorgar asks can it get any worse facing 2 of my brothers? then a tap on his shoulder with a lightning claw!

[@mphoramathe1801]

If we're talking world changing returns, Guilliman needs his counterpart in rationality back to keep his head in the Game.. He just needs Alpharius/ Omegon to tell him, "it's irrelevant if the Imperial Truth is a lie, what matters are the results Bobby G. Just do your job and stop asking questions above you pay grade"🙂

[@richardsimons1234]

How would Guilliman react to a Lorgar return? Guilliman: "Why is Lorgar getting his ass beat by a shadow?"

[@ulrickguiliman4810]

Astartes: oh no my lord that's no shadow. We received reports of angry "caws" it must be your brother Corvus. Popcorn my lord?

[@callamtaylor9718]

We all know the next primarch is going to be angron on armageddon involving him and gazkill playing badminton with yarrik being the shuttlecock

[@THExRISER]

You underestimate Yarrick, he'll kick both of their asses up.

[@davidcendana2302]

From the makers of Blood Bowl comes a new game: WAAAGHMINTON

[@Kemot300]

Option nr 1: Lorgar: I Have Returned!!! Roboute: Corax! He's over here! Lorgar: Oh sh*t. Option nr 2: Lorgar: Im Back!!! Roboute (Blows his head off with o powerfist) Well, that was easy. But their actual talk whould be interesting

[@Ventruethful]

I like to think that their hatred for eachother has dimmed over the millenias, turning into an ember of sadness and regret. Depends a lot on the Urizen and where his meditation lead him in his solitude though. Both skilled diplomats, one a demagogue, the other an administrator: it would make for a fantastic encounter, rich with philosophy and nuance!

[@tubeman69]

I feel like Guilliman would show him the current state of the Imperium now that it is infested with the very thing that led to Lorgar's humbling by the Emperor. Show him their father's body, the countless worlds filled with nothing more than slaves, and then compare it to the worlds who truly felt like beacons of the Imperium during the Crusades. Science, progress, unification, stability, all the things their father gave to all has been utterly halted and fractured and around all of it is the religious zealots taking advantage and creating more paranoia, fear, regressionist ideology, and pain and truly let Lorgar see what 10,000 years of it has done. I think Lorgar never understood why the Emperor was so particular about religion and the Warp's ability to feed off it and everything it affects. I doubt he could be "redeemed" in life, but to see all that before his end, might redeem him in the fact he would finally understand, just like Horus' veil from Chaos was lifted at the very end (or so it seemed).

[@maxwellfujs6124]

Lorgar is the epitome of chaos - he fomented the state of the Imperium today simply by having, practicing, and spreading faith. But I don’t think Lorgar could ever renounce it because it’s so integral to who he is. He would just die. 🤷‍♂️ I could almost see him saying to that entire argument “so what? This is what humanity always was meant to do. You have your god and I have mine.” I see him maybe reveling in the insanity of people worshipping a god he helped create and/or bittersweet that the galaxy finally listened to the word, one way or another. It’s hard for me to see him as strictly evil since his spirit was crushed from Monarchia, maybe he’s more like a chaotic neutral. Dunno. I feel for the guy. The Primarch novel was great and he seems so complex. I don’t doubt that the conversation you outline would take place, but especially coming from Guilliman it would ring so hollow and wouldn’t sway Lorgar ‘s faith, even (or especially!) with the will of the Emperor like with Mortarion.

[@tubeman69]

@@maxwellfujs6124 I see your point. I guess my idea only really holds up IF (a big if) Lorgar was capable of seeing the reasoning of the Emperor. I guess that's why Primarchs like Guilliman, Vulkan and the Lion seem to be more in line with the exact type of Primarch the Emperor wanted them all to be. All three seem to understand the Emperor's decisions and reasoning in their own way, probably because those 3 embody the more "human" side of them all.

[@diogomorais5613]

Dam son this makes perfect sense. What is the better way to show one point of argument. Maybe Lorgar just need a "look is the proof you need to see what religion do to humanity, you think it was me be mad but my son I already see this out come many times through out my long existence" Maybe this could be another moment like the one with Mortarion and the emperor. Im a Corax follower but this one makes more sense. Good one sir 👍

[@jamesneese7663]

The problem is that Lorgar never cared about details. He just wanted something to worship that justifies everything he does and gives HIM some sense of divine nobility. Lorgar ultimately worships HIMSELF. If something came along that could vanquish the Primordial Annihilator, he'd likely switch sides AGAIN. When the Emperor made him kneel, he shamed and humbled Lorgar as a true God could. He made Lorgar feel small and Lorgar couldn't accept it so he turned to other gods not out of respect or true belief but because it made HIM feel powerful and righteous. Remember that when he decided Horus wasn't capable of winning the Heresy, he didn't HESITATE to backstab his brother despite the fact Horus STILL had blessing and sanction by The Four. He didn't do it out of belief or faith. He did it because his ego and self-righteousness override ALL other concern. Yeah he was right that Horus would fail BUT it's highly unlikely he really could have done ANY better. Hell...he probably would have crashed and burned as his brothers would turn on him without hesitation.

[@tubeman69]

@@diogomorais5613 I haven't played 40K in years, but Corax has become one of my favorites due to the Black Library.

[@Graavigala85]

I hope Lorgar would return, he has the coolest armor and best weapon and he was correct all along

[@agakrayna]

I just know that this comment was mean to piss some neckbeards lmaooo

[@Graavigala85]

@@agakrayna no, I really like Lorgar

[@SonsOfLorgar]

We serve the God Emperor Ascended!

[@sojh17]

​@@Graavigala85 Lorgar fans unite!

[@esukgfjyijlgul5335]

@@Graavigala85 ew heretic

[@neogod29]

I think Lorgar's return would mean you have to bring back the other Primarchs, since I think Lorgar and Perturabo would be the most Demon Primarchs. I also think Lorgar's return should have a huge effect on the eccleciarchy

[@SonsOfLorgar]

I wouldn't presume Perturabo to have turned into a Daemon pimarch...

[@neogod29]

@@SonsOfLorgar I thought it was already stated that he was turned.

[@jamesneese7663]

Guilliman's reaction? *loads bolter* "Did I ever mention that my Mark of Calth still itches after all these millenia?"

[@tjorgensen8760]

It will be a crusade of running away from Corax

[@Kat1kafka]

Lorgar:hey Guilliaman Guilliaman:no Lorgar:hey Guilliaman Guillaman:.... what? Lorgar:I told you so Guillaman:sigh

[@SonsOfLorgar]

Also, btw, brother, I'm sorry I had to burn your worlds as you burned mine before you would understand...

[@darksider2903]

Imagine lorgar about to do killing blow to guilliman, just that moment corax impaling lorgar from behind then guilliman gets up and cuts of lorgar's head with emperor's sword!! It's gonna look cool af.

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Corax: Finally, I may finally end my hunt, for I've captured my prey. My traitorous brother. Guiliman: And now, I can end him. This is for the Imperial Truth. Brother.

[@thetaz31]

Yes! We need this to happen! Dam that would be legendary! Giant shadow raven appears with Corvus leaping out of it, diving the spear into Lorgar dropping him to his knee. Guilliman rising, the sword burning with the Emporers wrath.

[@joncarter3761]

I don't think any of the Chaos Primarchs can die though, they'd just be banished to the warp unless their soul is erased from existence, the Emperor did it to erase Horus (or he'd eventually come back) and his soul was shattered as a result (or at least that's the hint). Only people able to take out a Primarch who's soul belongs to Chaos were Malcadore (he almost killed Horus for trying to say the two lost Primarch's names) and the Emperor and one is dead, the other is a little busy holding demons back from invading terra and being warp GPS for the Imperium! Conrad is a weird exception though, Chaos could bring him back in theory but they have no reason to, he never fell to Chaos he just threw his lot in with Horus and he also allowed himself to be killed. Why would they want to bring someone back who wouldn't listen to them and was willing to kill them self just to prove the point that they were right?

[@dannyKurt]

They won't kill him off. They will want to make money selling his Primarch model.

[@WR288]

Not a fan of Guilliman jobbing to Lorgar.

[@squeekfootbiter3803]

I wonder what Gulliman would do if he learned about Clone Fulgrim or sleepy Lion. Would he change course or just keep going with current plans.

[@yourcheapdate4564]

Guilliman didn't seem to have many words for Lorgar during the first reckoning, I don't see why he would want to discuss things now

[@Historyfrek4ever]

Guilliman and the Ultramarines are collectively going to scream: "It's Fisting time!" and shove their powerfists so far up what's left of Lorgar's rear that they will be mistaken for the chaos gods.

[@Gunnberg85]

Guilliman: ... Lorgar: ... Guilliman: ... Lorgar: ... Guilliman: You were right. Lorgar: (surprise Lorgar face)

[@how2alive79]

It'll be hard for lorgar to have a conversation with corax's claws in his throat

[@ОлегБочаров-щ8к]

Guilliman: So I read your brochure... Lorgar: *stoping mid attack* You did?!

[@johnnys8393]

Hypothetical scenario: Lorgar returns but with his identity hidden. Lorgar usurps absolute control of the ecclesiarchy. Ecclesiarchy becomes more and more militant, more and more oppressive, gradually and subtly being coaxed into chaos rituals and eventually a complete subversion of the ecclesiarchy into worshipping chaos undivided. Lorgar reveals his true identity and is revered by the now corrupted ecclesiarchy. Guilliman attempts to kill Lorgar but is overwhelmed by the forces of the ecclesiarchy. Then either the Lion or Corax returns, saves Guilliman and the two primarchs kill Lorgar then dissolve the ecclesiarchy....that could make for some interesting lore.

[@themachine7534]

Laughs* as corax spawn kills lorgar the second he touches realspace

[@MetalRhino42]

I think emps would show up for the conversation through the memories of big blue. From when big blue was in the throne room and had infinite conversations with emps without realizing it

[@maevethefox5912]

I've played Word Bearers for years and it was always my headcanon, at least for my own Host, that they were much more committed to converting humanity to chaos worship than to killing them all. A twisted continuation of the Crusade to bring the Truth to humanity. What better way to ensure humanity dominates the stars than to fill them with the power of Chaos.

[@N1njaSnake]

Let's not forget the story of the Unremembered Empire making its way to the Church, as a potential blackmail material against Bobby G.

[@captainpuffinpuffinson4769]

Time for G man to claim the mark of Calth

[@Timasion]

Roboute pulls his sword and menacingly approaches Lorgar. Lorgar backs up when suddenly a shadow appears next to Roboute. "No, brother, this one is mine." Corvus' face appears. "What ever Lorgar, Corvus, it pales to mine," Roboute growls. "I cannot allow you to take your vengeance before mine," Corax says as he points his claws towards Lorgar. "He wronged my legion first." "And he nearly destroyed my people," Roboute yelled. "Besides, you're practically demon yourself. How do I know you're not in league with him?" Corvus steps towards Roboute. "YOU DARE? Where were you when the Empire burned?" Roboute hefted his sword. "Get out of my way, Raven." And the fight commences. Lorgar, visibly confused, teleports away.

[@commissarf1196]

If Lorgar's back, then Corax would to.

[@coltonlong7562]

Corax is the reason Lorgar isnt coming back. Gotta stay in his house to hide from the rap, rap, rapping at his chamber door, quoth the Raven, "Lorgar, I'm going to fuck you up!".

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

“Ugh, Lorgar. Just like the Drop Site Massacre all over again. Vulkan’s dead. Again. Great. And Ferrus is tormenting me with his floating head. Not that I blame him for mine own failings. This is the part where I lash you to super death, traitor.”

[@justincapone]

I think similarly to the screaming, cursing, pissed off Primarch in the vacuum of space moment prior to his absence.

[@donperez8774]

(Corvus Corax appears out of the ether, slays Lorgar in front of R.G.) R.G.: "Whoa, I'm not alone as a loyalist son." (Severed head of Lorgar rolls to ... a laughing warp ghost of Konrad Curze?) Curze: "You assume too much, my bean counter brother. Hey Goldenhead, looks like someone expected a miracle to save them from big bad Corvus Corax. (Stretching, yawning sound) Yeah ... I really didn't feel like doing it AGAIN, 'Rizen. (Shock) Not answering prayers? OOOH ... must mean I'm a Chaos God, then (laughs, then depressed). Ugh, means now I have to write something for Magnus to read. I change my mind. My, this is easy." (Corax sees Curze, believes he's either fallen to Curze's level or is just going crazy from all his time in the warp, screams in agonized raven, falls to floor sobbing) Curze: "Hoo boy, that right there Roboute, it's that life-changing moment. Cuckoo, cuckoo. (Starts giggling, then imitates Ferrus Manus' voice) 'You are weak, Corax!' (giggles more, then looks at R.G.) Aaah, at last, revenge at the two poseurs taking my style all this time. And time to tell you I thank Dad for this moment -- seriously (haunting voice) He works in mysteriouuuus ways -- but ... I'm just going to the sidelines and heckling y'all. (stares upward, points accusingly) I learned that FROM YOU. Well, 'Poor Konrad' here is off before my idiot sons get an inkling I'm around and try to find me (whispers at Guilliman: would you believe Vulkan and I found that common ground?). Ciao, Roboute! Have fun calculating Dad's mess. (Points at Corax) And tip Bobby G: Putting madmen in stasis caskets and tossing 'em out an airlock doesn't improve them -- heh-heh. I'm proof."

[@thelion2751]

Where is my bird emo boy corvus corax,he is the one going to beat lorgar ass into oblivion

[@fallenknighttyler8695]

If Lorgar and Corax return I kind of like a similar scenario to MajorKills idea. Lorgar emerging from the warp to wage a Holy War being confronted by Guilliman and after a fight whether he wins or loses, but for this instance let's say because of his elevation to Demon Prince he beats Guilliman but wants him to live and watch the what's left of the Imperium to burn away and their father truly die. He tries leave through a warp portal but is immediately attacked by Corax.

[@trivunkonjik7413]

Lorgar is my favorite primarch, i just love his lore, not the strongest of primarchs, not the smartest, but he had faith and now im sure he is one of strongest primarchs of the bunch.....

[@NielsMulvad]

I want Russ, I like the idea of Corax. But we need the Lion. The Lion would be able to be a threat to Guilliman in terms of forces. Where Russ and Corax would be to splintered to be a "day 1" threat. And there needs to be a sense of threat so that more stories can be written, sure they should end up as allied forces protecting the imperium against the foes of chaos, but the sense of dread that can be written when the imperium hears that a fallen primarch returns, with traitor sons (well they don't know about them)... mhh would be good.

[@bigearl3867]

Bring in one of the lost Primarchs. That would be a real twist.

[@agakrayna]

The Khan

[@jamesneese7663]

KKKKKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

[@haleonnovarider8182]

I think if Guilliman were to meet Lorgar it would be much the same to every interaction they have had throughout the lore. Regardless of whether Lorgars writing have eventually been proven correct, Lorgar symbolizes everything that's wrong with the current Imperium, and he leads the Legion that is so perversely enraptured to the ruinous powers as a whole that they embody everything Guilliman and The Emperor have dedicated themselves to destroying. As much as the other traitor legions, to include the black legion, have in some way manifested the blessings of the power that they align with, the Word bearers are the rotten seeds in the middle of the particular maelstrom. Lorgar would likely have some pithy yapping and gloating that he would prattle on with and Guilliman would just ask if he was done.... The two guys I would love to hear talk to Lorgar would be Russ and Jaghatai. Both would likely have some epic mike drop one liners

[@bgcvetan]

Poor Lorgar, stuck between Corvus and Ultramarines. And No Curze or Angron to save him this time.

[@maxwellfujs6124]

Let’s not forget the “worship” of Word Bearers in the BL novel Dark Apostle… Marduk and co. took over a planet, built a skyscraper made of concrete and human flesh, and channeled extraordinary chaos power. This is what “converting” a world might look like for Lorgar.

[@papapear4954]

I would love to see Lorgar come back but they need more loyalist primarchs.

[@Duppyman695]

Agreed.... Enter Lion el Johnson !

[@-Gilver]

Lorgar vs Guilliman with Corvus coming in to help his brother Have we had any Guilliman and Corvus interaction before I feel like that would be cool to see cause we have Guilliman here running the government so to speak and I wanna know where Corvus could fit in

[@CloningIsTooGoodForSheep]

There have been short stories with the two interacting. In this story people came into the room but weren't able to see Corax although he was visible to his brother. The story explains the lessons learned from Corax defeating his brother in war games and the appreciation gained from having elite snipers destroy his command structure. He goes on to consider the tactical merits of other Primarchs combat doctorine. The value of Dark Angel mobile forts and Imperial fist fortified gun positions along with the blood angels use of jump packs to provide rapid fire support and Space Wolves elite scouts. This came out 18 months or so before 8th if I recall rightly.

[@Nathan_Moor]

A grimdark Logar meeting Guilliman would be interrupted by a sneak attack Corax when their meeting opens the path of Redemption for Logar and a reunion of the Brothers, a healing of old wounds. He'll popup and Logar will conclude it was just a plot of Guilliman. Furious and filled with feelings of betrayal he'll retreat. If any Loyal primarch shows up there's going to be a Hell, Guilliman was the one to split the Legions into chapters, and now he has the Primaris. Thats not going to go down well no matter who comes back. That would be another count on the 'this could be civilwar' list.

[@pixelgun4789]

Imagine Lorgar and Roboute teaming up for some reason, and would gain respect for eachother. To that extent, that Lorgar would simply leave the battlefield afterwards.

[@askashik]

Lorgar would rub it in everyone's face. He turned out to be right. Worship of the Emperor has practically turned him into a god (possibly against his will) and made him into the greatest threat against Chaos. Want a nice storyline? Have Lorgar come out of hiding after sensing the Emperor's movements in the Warp when he possessed Guilliman and burned Nurgle's garden. Lorgar would make himself known and surrendor to Guilliman, wanting to talk about being touched by a god. Guilliman would of course deny this, but Lorgar would begin making his case for the Emperor's Godhood. To prove his points, he would ask for an audience with the Emperor and agree to whatever Guilliman' demands would be to have it done. On the way back to Terra, Corax could come out of hiding to attack Lorgar. Lorgar, now having unshakeable faith in the Emperor wouldn't defend himself, merely saying that: "The Emperor Protects." By some miracle they both make it to Terra, and the Emperor actually speaks to Lorgar in front of everyone so they know what he has said. Mainly that he is gathering his strength for the ultimate showdown with the Chaos Gods. To take them all on, he needs to be worshipped more to be empowered for the coming battle. To do this, Lorgar is purified by the Emperor of any Chaos corruption and is to be the new head of the Ecclesiarchy. Guilliman understandably has serious issues with this, but the Emperor explains that the only way to truly kill a Chaos God, is to kill them in the Warp, and the ONLY way the Emperor can do that is through empowering worship. But he also explains to the both of them, rather clearly, that he never set out to become a god, and that it was thrust upon him to keep his Imperium safe. Lorgar then sets out cleaning out all corruption within the Ecclesiarchy as per the Emperor's orders (sparking a civil war that Lorgar ultimately wins), while Guilliman gains a new powerful ally to keep the Ecclesiarchy in check and to help him when he needs it.

[@THExRISER]

That would be perfect, but very unlikely to happen.

[@mr.rousseau.4655]

The Primarchs just feel like vehicles for the plot.

[@jessejamesroy0069]

omg yes another Lorgar video can't wait for Lorgar week

[@Rcdvst808]

Both of your ideas at once would be entertaining, with 3 brothers at odds with each other.

[@otaku1and1harem1god]

Guilliman: lion i am a demi god, son of our father weilder of his blade you cant best me Lion: oh really now? Guilliman: really lion: really Gulliman : really Lion: unleash dreadwing protocols Gulliman: wait no

[@eichler721]

I like both the Lion and Corax return with Logar alot for the story and narrative elements we would get. However I think it's Angron or Fulgrim next as the 4 main Chaos Primarch's will return first in my opinion.

[@nailigniststarzear6689]

They gonna have long good talk before killing each other

[@Boringstuff4]

Great stuff @wolflordrho Lorgar is indeed a key protagonist at the heart of the imperial soul. Besides bringing in the elusive Corvus Corax.

[@Cam-ks8yz]

The Lion coming back to find a religious Robute might end with the Lion joining him. During the Heresy, the Lion reluctantly went along with Imperium Secundus, Robute's strategy to preserve the Imperium if Terra had fallen. The Lion knows Robute is goal focused and only doing what is necessary to achieve said goal, and not necessarily converting or turning his back on his principles. Then again, Secundus was a disaster more or less, so the Lion might remember what happened last time Robute did what he thought best and take action

[@colinbielat8558]

However the ultimate thing to remember is that so far all the primarch have been changed from their horus heresy version. The lion's character will probably be forced to become more open and understanding. He is entering a world he knows nothing off and his last memory is of his adoptive father nearly killing him. He is not going to be the same lion el Johnson just as Roboute is not the same. With the Imperium teetering on the brink of destruction he will have to either adapt or basically off himself in a sort of penitent crusade.

[@PhynixDS]

Guliman reads book, know your enemy, Sun Tzu in the art of war, Logar created the imperium through his book, twisted Horus through visions of things that we're of his making while being healed on Davin knowing how Horus would have reacted. Guliman returns to the Imperium after the seeds of Logar had bloomed to how he showed visions to Horus, Guliman now has to use the weapon of the enemy against them better than the enemy that had penned them. I could see that one loyal to the Imperium Comtemptor Bearer of the Word dreadnaught being braught in along for this confrontation since the Emperor can also manifest through him, it would be a boon if Corax showed up since he is rage hunting Lorgar for what he has done to his fathers work, don't think there would be much of a brother to brother moment with Corax and Guliman as Corax is mostly incorporeal warp energy and a shadow more so that what Konrad was and envious of Corax.

[@Paerigos]

Meaning - how would he react to Corax follong Lorgar every single second? :D

[@lotgc]

I think about this a lot. I think things may have played out a lot better if the emperor had just accepted that he was a god. Because when you think about it, what really is a god? Is it simply an entity with power that defies understanding, or is it a reflection of perfection and potential fully realized? It doesn't really matter, because he is a god by both definitions.

[@ebanker1]

Honestly for primarchs that question robot girlyman I would say the most likely one to stand up to him along with the lion would be russ, who's sons still defy the decrees of the codex astartes too this day under his own command. And with the foretelling of the wolf times leman rus returning would not be too far off base

[@Matihood1]

Out of curiosity, Rho, why did you drop "Wolf Lord" from your usual introduction?

[@glnburnz5772]

He is..'ALPHARIOUS'

[@Dreadbringer]

Probably GW anti fans crusade

[@themachine7534]

Because he loves dark angels too much and realised who the real mac daddy's are

[@Dreadbringer]

@@themachine7534 jajajaja cant really blame him if that were the case

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Clearly he is losing faith ^_^

[@johnnyblaze4053]

I think if lorgar comes back; they would have a conversation but corax wouldn't be far behind to kill him before guilliman could tell him he took no pleasure in destroying monarchia and he still loves his brother.

[@Cosmic_idea]

Hey bro, funny seeing you here, btw i read your book :P

[@informationyes]

Guilimmen "How does it feel to have gotton exactly what you so depserately wanted only after you gave up on it!"

[@metabladesarchive]

Corax and Lorgar will return as a pair in the lore. I think they will be one of the last Primarchs to return. My guess is that either the Lion or the Khan will be the next couple primarchs to return with Angron and Fulgrim countering them.

[@kelman727]

With a bit of pity, a lot of rage, then an AWFUL lot of stomping.

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

Lorgar is one of my favorite Primarchs. He is just as tragic as Angron. A heartbroken son scorned by the father he adored above all others turning to abusers and defilers to fill the void left by his father's rejection. It's enough to bring tears to the eyes.

[@akirby2886]

Lorgar return would be awesome, salvation some how would be great.

[@chrisbennett6236]

Guilliman would be happy with Lorgar's return as it would mean Corax's return as well.

[@RayanBacha95]

How awesome would that be if Lorgar went to Imperium Nihilus and began to forge an empire for chaos, calling it "Imperium Secundus" just to mess with Papa Smurf and telling everyone on that side of the rift that the Imperium has fallen, but that He, a loyal son of the emperor, is now here to save them all in the name of the God-Emperor, not even turning them to chaos worship initially, but using their faith in the god emperor to turn them against Guilliman. I mean it would be child's play for lorgar to turn the church against guilliman considering that they already wants his head.

[@OlrikMeister]

If lorgar returns he would total fuck with the ecclesiarchy in some way or shape.

[@40kbrit47]

If Lorgar returns, so will Corax.

[@brandonhughes4571]

Lorgar has already reappeared and leading a crusade of word bearers. Apparently anyway

[@mkloppel]

It would be far more interesting if Logar dumped Chaos and converted his disperate legion with him to be the worshippers of the emporer that they once were. A full circle where he is proud of the work he did in making the emporer he loved devotedly a true godly being. That would be very interesting.

[@allways28]

Got to turn off as I’m nearly to the end of ‘the first heretic’ . Will catch this vid after!

[@Duppyman695]

Betrayer next..... awesome books!

[@AlexHernandez-ee5hd]

Not sure why people would think Lion El. Johnson is unlikely. They have stated in multiple books now that the Lion is alive and close to returning.

[@keck2001]

While Guliman and The Lion would be a good twist, I would like to Logars crusade clash with Guliman and it being a war of ideas between them. On the other side the crusade, give us Blood Angles and Dark Angles forced to team up. At the end of the book just have a surprise twist of The Lion coming out and and having a chat with Dante. Let the second book start off with Guliman and The Lion trading blows over the Codex Astrites only to have Corvax break up the fight so they can all go put down Logars crusade. Last book would be nothing but ramifications of the 2nd book, Guliman renewed zeal and The Lion putting the Dark Angles back to legion strength

[@alienatedbeing7513]

I really hope they make a Lorgar model

[@pilchard8741]

I don't think he will have many words, he will just hate logar even harder for causing so much damage such as the imperial creed. I think if the lion does rock up, it will only be in a way to keep Roboute on the straight and narrow and remind Roboute of the truth, I doubt there would be blood shed, there's just a jealous brother thing going on there, I think they set there difference aside by the end of unremembered empire. I think if corax rocked up that would be truly amazing, and there's been stirrings regarding corax

[@willthemann3768]

Pretty sure Corax is just gunna put Lorgar inside the Engine of Woes And never let him out

[@tomchristensen4634]

Thought.. I think that even if Guiliman wanted to talk to current daemon primarch Lorgar, he wouldn't. The eyes of the entire emperium is always watching him. He couldn't afford to be seen talking the enemy in a non aggressive manor. The custodes are waiting for him to slip up. I don't think the return of the Lion would be as upsetting as you think. He would want to set things right but he also was one of the 3 primarchs to agree on the emperium secundus. The Lion know when and where to bend. I thought in one of the books guiliman found Vulkan alive but unwilling to return to the emperium and happy to be a menial worker on a backwater planet. Lorgar and Corax in front of Guiliman. Probably not. I don't see GW dropping a power bomb like that. My predictions will be Angron late this year then maybe Fulgrim... then in a long shot and hail mary Lion El Johnson.

[@josephvanhaverbeke1448]

Can’t they just drop fulgrim angron leman and lion and take my money already

[@MrStephansucks]

Return of Morgan quickly followed by the return of corax

[@oldeskul]

I think Guilliman would need help against Lorgar. Yes Lorgar may be a daemon primarch, but that doesn't make him a particularly good combatant. Remember that during the Horus Heresy, Guilliman not only put Lorgar just a hair's breadth away a name on the nightly news, but he also successfully held his awn against an ascended Angron and was forced to retreat because he was exhausted and injured. If Lorgar faced against Guilliman now, he'd get clapped so hard that everyone around would think it was applause.

[@modakkagitplugga]

Doesn't really make sense why Robute is at such odds with the ecclesiarchy considering he rescued its founder and entombed him within a dreadnought

[@timothylyons5686]

If the big 'E' got off the golden throne and said " l am not a God'" the Ecclesiarchy would burn him as a heretic.

[@Ownedyou]

He will administer a Fatal Beating to Lorgar, Mr. Bean style.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

Guilliman and Lorgar never had a good relationship during the Great Crusade, but the burning of Lorgar great city forever destroyed whatever relationship they ever had. Ironically enough both Lorgar and Guilliman are empire builders in the administration and spiritual aspects of them, and had they put aside their differences perhaps they could have built a greater imperium.

[@jeambeam3173]

Its sad that i feel only Lorgar, Magnus, or Horus were the only ones who had the psychic and physical strength to replace the Emperor but they all turned traitor. It be very interesting if they had a story line where pre heresy Horus learns about the chaos portal the emperor went thru to get his powers and him attempting to become more powerful for the sake of the Imperium. Could turn into a cool alternate timeline

[@yeoldchief7711]

Dorn was around for the first Back Crusade, yet I think he would be the one that would have the hardest time thinking of the Emperor as a god. 1. He can't understand the warp, because that's the way he was made. 2. That Sigismund was right would be crushing to him.

[@Dreadbringer]

The Lion, Dorn, the Khan, Perturabo, AND Mortarion (if free) would go heavy against religión.

[@wtfnap556]

Lorgar about to kill RG standing over him in his weakened state all hope seems lost. When suddenly the god emperor possesses RG and miraculously cures him, and Lorgar goes back to the warp for reasons…..

[@SolarCasper]

Wait thats exactly what happened with Mortarion

[@Dreadbringer]

Oh please no!

[@gr8avocado]

Oh yeah daemon Corax vs daemon Lorgar. That would be epic!..Well only if they actually let Corax finish the job and either kill Lorgar or bind him in some way.

[@glnburnz5772]

Corax as a demon will still be hunted by the imperium.

[@Dreadbringer]

@@glnburnz5772 he could lead the legión of the damned maybe

[@jessejamesroy0069]

yea and lose an interesting character while keeping the most boring primarch yea that would rule...nah