How You Get Confidence in Your Diagnostic Skills

[@flatratemaster]

The Hyundai is fixed

[@robertdunn7717]

This is true I'm the diagnostic guy in my shop still some time him and hay but doing it and being through much more confident making a call on the other had when it comes to my own problems like this mini van I have for my girl my knowledge leaves

[@ozzstars_cars]

It takes experience and balls to call a bad PCM. You got them both Mike from what I hear on the streets.😂

[@josephespinoza9354]

what helps is right diagram and flow chart .

[@dtnel]

So when is FRM going to do a repair video? I'm sure we'd all enjoy watching it along with your fellow KZbiners such as Paul, Eric O or others plus I'm sure we'd gain something from you knowledge wise and I bet like Eric O you probably have some good stories to tell as you work.

[@Thunderroad8517]

There are a lot of really good comments here.Thanks FRM. I myself still don't have all the confidence that I need especially because of the big change in technology. I have worked many years as a B tech and have done some drivability and would like to progress and grow. The body is getting older and not having enough time in the diagnosis seat is causing a lot of problems. I find myself hunting for another shop due to Covidcrud. Im still in pretty good shape physically for my age but the confidence is not so high anymore. I know what I can do and do it well. I am not a proficient diagnostician to be able to make the call in a short time span. I just want to continue to work.

[@camshaftP16]

Do you ever have cars show up that you refuse to work on ? like some real rusted out POS or interior that's a bio hazard of filth.

[@meabob]

I had a Chrysler 300 with an airbag light. Pin point test said it was the driver airbag. Ordered it, took 3 days to get it. Installed and had the same issue with the same DTC. Ran through the test again with the same results. Of course, I'm second guessing myself now so I get the service manager to go over the test with me. He said order another airbag. 3 days later, 2nd new airbag installed and it was still the same. Got in contact with Star (Chrysler's tech support at the time) and the guy walked through it on the phone. Halfway through he says go to step "whatever". I said that's not what the service info says. I read back what it said and he said to hold on. About 10 mins later, he came back and said the service info is wrong online and he would fax me the correct info. Turns out that the info was not published correctly online but was in the hard manuals (which few dealer buy anymore because of the cost). Turned out to be the ORC module. Now imagine if this had been a non-warranty repair job. The shop would have been eating the cost of the airbags. Luckily for me, the tech support rep got me paid for all the time I spent on the job. Wow, that was a long winded way to say that sometimes your diag is only as good as the info you have to go buy.

[@devoncoolman88]

meabob 100% true. Ive had this happen to me more then one time. Diagnostic info be wrong or over look something that should have been tested. Flow charts are garbage. I rarely look at one anymore. Being in the aftermarket and not having access to some info makes things harder at times.

[@GearheadSchool]

Good point on a topic that is really hard to get a handle on. With today's cars, there is so much going on with data flowing on multiple interconnected networks it is hard to even estimate the amount of diagnostic time needed. When you go to a doctor with an unusual symptom, the doctor typically orders multiple diagnostic tests. When the results come in, the doctor often orders another round of tests based on information learned from the first round of tests. They are thorough since their comebacks could mean somebody dies. I think this approach needs to be considered in the automotive service business. We shouldn't be sheepish to request additional diagnostic time if there is any doubt about the $1000 module we think is bad. In many cases, if you make the wrong call, the customer is going to want you to eat it.

[@CarsExposed]

I heard Gary Player saying many times “ The more I practice the luckier I get “ very true ... 👍

[@salgonzalez908]

Anyone can be confident in diagnosing, it’s willing to accept when your wrong.

[@flatratemaster]

True

[@scoutsniper8688]

I love how real world your videos are. I think you read my mind on what goes on in my shop and out pops a video. Keep up the great work FRM

[@king49334]

I only get pay half hour flat rate to diagnosed Customer do not want to pay I just put my best guess Which is like 5 dollar after tax minimum wage Very cheap

[@wysetech2000]

King Tin Time to look for another place to work.

[@michaelherbert8213]

Like real fixes real fast once said "there comes a time when you need to close the book and open the hood." Great video.

[@FORDTECH313]

Cutomer says the car seems to be running fine but then it just stalls there's no check engine light oh and they are waiting ? 😱

[@flatratemaster]

Hate waiter diag

[@patrickleonard5034]

I work at a Hyundai dealership and I have a 2011 sonata that isn’t getting signal from the right rear speed sensor! It knows when it’s unplugged plugged but it Won’t give a reading of the speed! Then the fuel pressure regulator is acting up. Another shop replaced both parts witch I got and tested and they are fine .... now I’m tracing down wires it’s a pain in the butt.... plus the customer spliced some DIY lighting in all over the place it is a mess and It’s so time consuming ! finding decent wiring diagrams on the Hyundai site is nearly impossible! Plus it’s a small dealership and there is no factory trained techs.... Another guy and myself have plenty of experience in the field but not specifically to Hyundai.... like I said it’s a mess

[@meabob]

My shop is also a Hyundai shop and you are 100% right about their electrical diagrams. It's their whole service website.

[@inverseuniverse5727]

It helps when you get paid time to diagnose.

[@Blazer02LS]

If you are not then you need to find a better shop or discuss it with the boss.

[@wyattoneable]

Making a call on an expensive item would be hard as a new guy. Practice is hard to find for a DIY guy but I keep trying. Thanks Mike.

[@donaldhollums3278]

Proper diagnostics is something I want to do so bad, even if I only do this mechanic work part-time. It's the satisfaction of seeing the vehicle repaired correctly, and hopefully with the simplist fix, and knowing the vehicle owner is satisfied.

[@jefffoushee2816]

As a young tech myself. One thing that i notice to at lease were I work, there isnt much support

[@harindersaggu5035]

Sir, from where should i buy disc brake diameter measuring tool????????

[@silviasteeve]

and sometimes, even as an experienced tech you get to those times when you have a few bad ones and lose that confidence, until you work on getting it back again

[@biggiefitz6275]

True words!

[@stevenhzoll7057]

Training helps you understand the systems your dealing with . Access to , and knowing how to use service information is crucial. A methodical diagnostic approach will prevent missing something. After some experience you may start to see pattern failures which is not an end to itself, but can help streamline your diagnosis. Oh yeah did I say training ,formal training is good, but NEVER stop learning.

[@picoboo5048]

I have been using Jorge menchus colouring wiring diagram process, it really simplified what to expect. Highly recommend it.

[@93sundance]

So what do you do when service info leads you to replace the wrong part even though you did everything correct? Thanks GM!

[@workingclassgarage]

This is huge, pretty much all the younger guys at my shop will always try and get me to make the call. Drives me nuts lol. I’m like, “without me coming over there and doing my own diagnostic test procedures on it I can’t really say for sure if you’re right.” Then they go scratch their head for a few hours and the service writers end up coming and asking my opinion anyway 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@patrickleonard5034]

Thank you! I actually really needed to see this video! I do have the experience and confidence in my diagnostic capabilities but when it comes time to walk up to the service desk I start second guessing myself and I start back pedaling and then my writer doesn’t have the confidence in myself! So I’m gonna keep at it and perfecting my kraft and stop doubting myself

[@brianmason1414]

Once again, very correct! CONFIDENCE gained by experience is the only thing that will make a call on a bad multi hundred or possibly multi thousand dollar part...

[@jonsimmons3507]

I agree 100%! EXPERIENCE is the only way you will get better,learn from your failures and learn as much as you can. When I was starting out I had a snap-on wave form generator and I would take my big councilor 2 home and just practice and studying wave forms to get used to what good and bad looked like and I would also hook it up on all my family's,friends and my cars getting wave forms and just practicing test and it paid off. This was in 98 so this was before we had known good wave forms everywhere but practice gives you experience and it will make you glad you did it.

[@garyharms276]

The "magic ball "of experience , you sre %100 correct training and time

[@justinwhite4365]

Love the channel brother know exactly what you are talking about I'm a master tech for AAA working on cars 23 years now confidence is key to making money it's all about time with working different vehicles

[@kyhomegarage3430]

First😁😁

[@jaywebb0113]

i have a 17 terrain in my bay. it has been setting a left rear speed sensor code. i followed service information(SI) for that dtc. circuit tested normal. SI lead me to put a wheel speed sensor in it. do it, clear dtc go drive it. dtc runs and pass. ship the car. 2 weeks later comes back. same code. retest same circuit and now SI is telling me its an EBCM , so i double checked the circuit to the wheel speed sensor. diag leads to EBCM. put ebcm in car, program it. drive it more then once, and further , code runs and pass. ship it. this pass friday ... comes back. same code stored history/not current. re test again. go drive. cust said stabilitrac/abs light is coming on intermittently. well i cant get it to do it. i start checking the harness, looking for anything. go drive it again and boom out of no where left rear speed sensor dropping in n out. well now i have a hard failure and already replaced ebcm and wheel speed sensor. make the call to re string the circuit. , ebcm in the engine bay , left rear speed sensor well at left rear wheel. so about 15 ft of wire, a jumper harness and all that jazz. well i get it put together today. go drive it. code is gone and drives normal. i havent released the car again til i drive it tomorrow for a longer period. it makes me feel i messed up somewhere. but i followed the SI diag procedures and everytime it would run and pass code. i feel bad for the customer but they have extended warranty so its not costing them anything. i just wonder what i could of done different to catch the intermittent issue, how can i learn from this so i dont get caught by this again. maybe better info from cust to service adviser so i know to look for intermittent issues? idk? not repair anything til i get a failure even though i had a code to diag? oh yes i inspected the wheel hub/exciter ring before calling for a re string. its stuff like this that makes me gun shy as a newer tech.

[@flatratemaster]

Bad info always sucks

[@UNEEK_LOGIK]

So I scroll down GM’s flowcharts and see what they want me to change so then I change the part and 90 % of the time they are right

[@CopCat34]

Great video. No matter what career field you chose, experience is the best teacher.

[@ranct1815]

Hey I agree, I started today at Chrysler and my confidence was a little higher than when I first worked at Pep Boys but working there I obtained enough experience to do my job more smoothly at Chrysler... 👨‍🔧

[@meabob]

I left Chrysler dealers in 2016. I do a lot of electrical work and the Fiat influenced vehicles pissed me off so bad because of the lack of good information at the time. I don't have time to contact tech support several times a day.

[@jeffl1944]

Guided fault finding and tech line is better the blame is on them lol

[@bzwrenchingandmore1254]

How about if you have a service manager that says no matter how confidently you go to them and say it needs this part he goes it's going to another tech to be diaged even if you can show proof of your test procedure.

[@Blazer02LS]

That all comes from the same thing. You might be a top line tech who is right 99% of the time, but the service manager still doesn't have the confidence to trust you. I would ask them why as well as watch if they do the same with other techs.

[@dtnel]

Years ago, over 20+ service managers were the guys who had in the field experience. These days they're the guy with the 4yr business degree that's friends with the owner or the owners kids and don't know a whole lot about cars. I've seen techs go to be service writers and when the company gets bought out they go back to being a tech because they can make more money. I've had techs I know working at a dealership at a different location but on paper the dealer has them working at a different one because they need that techs mfr training certificates to be able to maintain their credentials and the actual shop won't have anybody "certified" by the mfr. Not a good deal all around because the techs, service writers lose because they are shooting from the hip compared to the guy with the GM training that works at at one of the dealerships other locations. What I'm saying is these days a dealer shop rarely has anyone above the techs in the shop with experience where years ago and I'm sure FRM seen it you weren't allowed to be a foreman or manager in service dept unless you'd worked your way up. It's all about money and the bean counters being the managers anymore and quality has went down. The dealership scaleback from GM downsizing the dealerships only made things worse for the consumer if you have a car under warranty anymore.

[@jeffl1944]

The factory scan tools and bmw puma cases are very exact

[@trublue2319]

I had to call a esim from the evap today wasn't 100 percent Confederate found no leaks

[@jeffl1944]

Hott day

[@BMWE30S54]

Set the toe and collect the dough! You gotta start somewhere, you make your best shot at it and roll with it.

[@FloorItDuh]

This is sage advice which applies to virtually all facets in life.

[@hyderyan27]

2nd 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@patrickcallahan2210]

How is it handled when the diagnosis is wrong? Is the customer charged for misdiagnosis and parts? Is there an industry standard for how that is handled?

[@ryanwilson3632]

Does a doctor not get paid if he makes a misdiagnosis? It's the same thing in the auto industry we're not perfect. Sometimes it's best to educate you customer this is the most likely cause but it may not fix your problem. If they come back on you after that, well you tried spent time figuring out what you believe is the best solution you need paid for your time even if your wrong. If you do this over and over again it's gonna be on you other wise you won't have any customers.

[@patrickcallahan2210]

@@ryanwilson3632 I can see the logic in that, I do think it is an oversimplification though. I'm all for having people paid for doing a good job, but it sounds like the disreputable shops and stories about them poison the well and make consumers wary. I guess I'm just a bit apprehensive given how often I hear auto techs on youtube (granted, this is a small sample size) stating that the other shop fired the parts cannon at it and then the customer is left paying not only for unneeded labor but unneeded parts as well... I do get that it isn't a simple issue, having said that, it leaves a sense of fear for us the customers. I do gain a lot from seeing reputable folks fixing things and being willing to show the process. A lot of techs start at dealerships, and the mindset and culture I keep hearing about lend itself well to the nickname of "stealerships". I can't help but be concerned that some of that unintentional training/culture/mindset trickles down to the techs that were trained there. Add in that techs recommending repairs for vehicles is called "selling it to the customer" and there is a profit motive, just like if your doctor was selling vitamins, or marking up your RX. It muddies the waters.

[@jamesdoyle9220]

I’ve seen mechanics in the process of replacing an expensive part find the real problem, usually a bad connection. Invariably, they go ahead and replace the component, fix the connection and say nothing. Shop owners love that. Or if the diagnosis was wrong, they want the mechanic to give them a BS explanation they can sell to the customer. Honesty did not make me very popular. That’s why I love working as an independent.

[@patrickcallahan2210]

@@jamesdoyle9220 I respect and appreciate that kind of ethics :) Do you have any advice or suggestions on how to avoid the kind of unethical behavior you have seen?

[@meabob]

I have pissed off my parts manager several times when the lube techs or service writers diag a car and I bring back the parts because that wasn't the problem. I refuse to install something that is not the problem. My thoughts are "What if it was my mama or grandma? Would I still install something that isn't needed?"

[@2secondslater]

As a workshop foreman, I get really, really frustrated when my techs can't tell me straight what the fault or fix is and then I end up having to do the diag for them, consistently, job after job. It has come to the point where I just tell them "If I have to do your job for you then there is no point in you being here, go back to the job and then come back to me and tell me what the fix is." It's harsh but I have found it is the only way I can get them to think for themselves.

[@meabob]

We have a lube tech that wants to be a mechanic. He tries to act like he knows what he's doing but he is always calling me or another tech to figure what is wrong. I finally got to the point that I say to get a line added to the RO with some diag time and I'll figure it out. He doesn't realize that a flat rate tech doesn't have time to do his job especially when I am busy.

[@Hoodie2103]

Can you do a video on how young guys or girls should get started in the auto field. How to go about getting tools, school, etc. Any advice that you wish you had when you were a young tech getting started.

[@Blazer02LS]

For me the best advice I never got was "Don't bother, get a job flipping burgers, it's a lot easier with better pay and less damage to the body and mind" LOL There really is no set best path. If I were to start over I would go to something like BOCES or trade school just for the papers and basic training. Then expect to start on the lube rack. Tool wise until you are 200% sure this is your new career, stay away from the tool trucks unless you need some specific tool that nobody else makes. Training and more training, get Paul Danners book and study how the systems and sensors work. Take some electronics training that give the theory of the various components. Go visit a few pick and pull places and practice testing various parts on the vehicles. Develop testing strategies and keep learning.

[@scottyrose00]

Best advice for folks starting out is don't, unless you're looking forward to get treated like a subhuman.

[@flatratemaster]

I have covered these topics in many videos on my channel

[@LEGOCAMARO]

I let my customers bring in there own parts I say 80% of the time the customer is right and it cuts a lot of diag time. Just gravy work. But some I definitely know that won’t fix it and I let them know but they still pay to install and then have to pay for the right diag.