How Zelda Lore Explains that Sonia and Rauru DID NOT Have a Child | Tears of the Kingdom Theory

[@hchatnation]

Hello! Thanks for watching! Just wanted to put it out there, I use the Ancient Hero image as a depiction of the child because it was the closest model we had to a half-Zonai half Hylian child, NOT because I think the Ancient Hero is the child, a descendant, or anyway shape or form related to Rauru and/or Sonia. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn’t. I don’t know. But that’s not a message I am trying to convey. Thanks! [Edit/Update]: I also want to address one other sentiment, that either Nintendo didn’t care enough to include it or the lore is irrelevant. On my channel, I do not take this approach. For my theories, I take the information we have from across the series, assess its relevance, and put a story together. If that’s not your perspective, I understand and can respect that you may feel slighted by TotK and how the story was handled. But I appreciate your time and thoughts and hope you respect mine too.

[@haileeraestout5567]

This Might Connect The Fierce Deity And Hylia Were Lovers At Some Point Before He Was Defeated And We KNOW That The Master Sword Is The PROOF That Sonia And Rauru KILLED The Young Hero During The Banishment Of The Ancient Sheikah Before The Master Sword Called Him

[@Chubby_Bub]

I admire your theory-crafting and while what you suggest is plausible, I disagree that it is likely the case. I am almost certain that Rauru and Sonia having a child is the intent and they unfortunate truth is they just didn’t want to include an extraneous character into the story that was already written. This theory seems to be twisting around pretty clear wordings- though Occam's Razor was never popular with Zelda theorists, I suppose. To use another example, Daruk and Urbosa must have had children at the time of the Calamity since Yunobo and Riju are their descendants, and we don’t see or hear of them at all in the memories or even Age of Calamity. The easiest explanation is that the children were infants, and as the children of Champions, royalty or both, they _would_ likely be in the care of retainers while they were very young. You'd also think we'd know at least something about Paya's parents, but they virtually don't exist.

[@BioAlpha5]

The game is basically a small window into their lives

[@casseroledragon3277]

I agree. Rauru and Sonia both make a ton of allusions to the fact they have a kid, logically that would make the most sense.

[@OnlyTwoShoes]

They don't have a kid. They're not even the same species. So far only the Gerudo are known to breed with one outside of their own and it's always a Hylian.

[@casseroledragon3277]

@OnlyTwoShoes Fun fact, humans irl bred with and had viable babies with other humanoids that were not our species, so that actually doesn't negate the possibility of them having a kid. Humans historically (and with lasting evidence) bred with the Neanderthals and the Denisovans. We get red hair from the Neanderthals, and the bright blue eyes specific to Melanesia from the Denisovans.

[@peterattilaradivojevics5645]

@@OnlyTwoShoes Which literarly means that Hylians ARE capabel to have children with other species.

[@lindamoulton1560]

What if the lack of recordings of a child by the chamberlain as a deliberate attempt to hide said child? Maybe because Rauru and Sonia were cautious or afraid of its power? Its just something I picked up replaying the game with the Ganondorf memory where he puts a pretty malicious emphasis on Rauru's "Sister..." like he believed they were hiding an heir who would have been part Zonai.

[@hchatnation]

I really like this idea! It makes the passing of the queen and king more heart wrenching. I still find it out that the child goes on to live a life we never hear anything about, but what you're suggesting makes the story more emotional

[@lindamoulton1560]

@@hchatnation It's not specifically related to the Zelda series, but I'm a HUGE historical fiction fan and that's almost always a common trope (hidden heirs etc). I even had the thought that what if Midna was the child of Rauru and Sonia- she would have had the power of Light and Time and if we're talking about figures that would be able to hold the powers of the Triforce it could easily be Zelda (Wisdom), Link (Courage) and Midna (Power)- still doesn't explain the Zelda bloodline- buuuuut also (that could have been the Hylia bloodline theory or *and I hate to suggest this* a simple throwaway line that Sonia specifically said out loud for Zelda's protection)

[@BioAlpha5]

@@hchatnation Sounds like to me the same or similar to Luke and Leie being hidden from Vader lol

[@BriarBeeBenson]

That and then in the final battle of the Imprisoning War, in the memory Mineru gives us we can see Ganondorf seems to be specifically targeting her and slowly torturing her to death with Gloom. Neither Rauru or any of the other sages are anywhere near badly wounded as she is

[@theloruleanhistorian]

The crest is the same in Rauru and Sonia's time. We see it at the top of the mural where Rauru and Sonia are holding hands. We see it on the door to their castle. We see it on the stonework around the castle, too. It seems that only Sonia's personal crest differs; the one on her clothes. And she likely shared her clothes with Zelda, who was introduced as a “distant relative”.

[@hchatnation]

Can you point me to where the mural is you’re referencing? I don’t recall seeing the crest with the Triforce on any Zonai structure, including the castle. And I would contend it’s tough to line up the castle door with the Hyrulean crest. I see the similarity though. I can get on board with the crest being more Hylian than Zonai, although I still believe Rauru adopted it for his kingdom in good faith. I could be wrong, just my theory

[@guccigamer5907]

Just checked the cutscene at the start of the game. When the camera cuts to the mural depicting Sonia and rauru holding hands, the camera zooms out, and at the top, you can see the hylian crest, in between some humans.

[@incomments2864]

@@hchatnation You are just confused about the lore. Sonia is literally the ancestor of Zelda with Rauru. They both had children who passed down their powers and the goddess Hylia have NOT reincarnated since skyward sword, that was the ONLY time she reincarnated as a human and the rest of the Zelda’s are her descendant that share her bloodline and powers. What part of that is sooo confusing for you?

[@amanimagra1114]

@@incomments2864 That's basically what he said. He said that the royal family didn't necessarily have *one* single child. Sonia may have had a cousin or a sibling that had the same powers as her. And Zelda's light powers stems from the triforce, not from rauru.

[@burger_kinghorn]

​@@amanimagra1114Hylia herself had some kind of evil repelling sacred power and even moreso over time. She had time shift stones and gates in her temples. She planned and communicated messages to Link via Fi's memory and folk songs in Skyloft that were clues to a present puzzle of raising the tower that points a beacon through the thunderhead and to the Isle of Songs. In messages at the Isle of Songs she refers to guiding Link from "the edge of time." She must have a perception of time that is different from mortals. The whole thing about time and light powers makes sense from Hylia alone. Any reference and deliberate connection to Rauru's light powers was totally unnecessary. When I first watched the opening scenes Zelda's reference to her family being descended from sky gods made sense with that being Hylia and the people of Skyloft. I was really disappointed with them shoehorning in the Zonai and confusing past lore. Even moreso them leaving the Zonai very much a mystery with little explanation of their civilization.

[@Alex09080]

The major problem with this that I see is that Zelda in botw claims that her mother would teach her how to use her powers, and that her grandma also had a form of the power. It's an interesting idea, but I think it may be more likely that sonia had some other family, and they had children, which passed down the godly blood line? Unless there's an explanation for zelda's mother and grandmom

[@javiervasquez625]

To be honest i don't see why it's not plausible that Rauru and Sonia birthed a prince/princess and he/she simply wasn't relevant to the events of the story. ¿Do we ever get to see Link's dad or mom in any Zelda game? ¿Or Zelda's mother for that matter? ¿What of Ganondorf's parents, have they ever been relevant in his story to the point of needing to appear in the games? Just because Zelda happens to be a descendant of Rauru and Sonia doesn't mean their children must appear to further aknowledge that fact.

[@DonutSwordsman]

no, the main big reveal is that, zelda by going back in time took sonias place as the one to use the blood of the godess trifoce power, as thats what would have been the point zero timeline, the first time zelda went back in time

[@javiervasquez625]

@@DonutSwordsman _"...the first time zelda went back in time"_ So i take it Skyward Sword never happened?

[@Sarah_H]

@@javiervasquez625 the first time BotW/TotK Zelda went back in time, not a previous incarnation of Zelda

[@javiervasquez625]

@@Sarah_H So i understood yet even then it doesn't make sense as BotW/TotK Zelda only ever travels to the past _once_ making their statement innaccurate from the get go.

[@TheOnilink1230]

There is literally a side quest in this game a child of two parents is sent to live with the mother’s people in their village on the other side of Hyrule. Who is to say something similar didn’t happen with the half zonai descendant of Sonia and rauru.

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

Probably because the Zonai aren't Gerudo. Different people are different. I wouldn't expect a Rito to be able to teleport and live for thousands of years just because the Sheikah can. I wouldn't expect the Gorons to float a trident down a river in a ceremony just because the Zora do.

[@Mangascribbler]

I don’t think you’re wrong, but I would like to point out that it was incredibly common for the “last surviving heir” to be hidden away instead of sent into existential battles for the country. I can’t think of a good reason why, if Sonia and Rauru had a child, they would be brought along to the battle where it was all but certain everyone in the royal bloodline would be annihilated by a usurper.

[@kingdaniel3519]

My question is, if Rauru and Sonya are the founders of this Hyrule that carries on through the events of BotW and TotK, and they died childless, who continued ruling the kingdom after their ends that also had the blood of the Goddess? There has to be at least one individual that is a blood descendant of the Goddess that carried on ruling the kingdom afterwards. That Zelda has inherited her sealing powers through blood connections proves that there had to have been someone to carry on after Rauru and Sonya died and that the bloodline of the Goddess continued uninterrupted all the way to Zelda in the far distant future.

[@hylianevalink]

in the ancient Hylian tablets, a maid claims that "she has to do something" to continue the legacy of those that died. Considering Sonia is described as nothing more than a "priestess", I hold the theory that the first Hylians, if a woman studies the religion of Hylia enough and becomes "purified" they can hold Light Powers. After all, even if it was Rauru's first element, it is shown that Sonia also holds light powers yet her base power is Time.

[@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003]

@@hylianevalink that doesn’t make sense they have to be blood connected just studying the tradition doesn’t automatically make you in the blood line lmao 🤣

[@hylianevalink]

@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003 even when we consider it's the blood of a Goddess or in more brutal terms, magic blood?

[@AmirPrinceling]

@@hylianevalink It's not "magic blood." It's holy blood. Goddess blood. That isn't something you can just magick up.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@AmirPrinceling Depends on the setting.

[@deecyp64]

By native american definition of an ancestor every incarnation of Link is the ancestor of the Link of skyward sword. Ancestors aren't only related by blood but by shared goals or habitats.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

The Definition of yours sounds more fitting for Predecesor, the one who came before, and Successor, the one who came after to continue the legacy of his Successor

[@deecyp64]

@@Chris-gx1ei well its not mine but those by natives... there were big fights between scientists and natives because fossils were found in America that predate modern native populations. The white people argued they aren't their ancestors while not understanding that according to native definition they definitely are. You are free to use whatever definition you want, but you have to accept that others don't 😅

[@VGInterviews]

@@deecyp64 what he meant is that you used the wrong word, your definition of what an ancestor may mean could be accepted but any future links would be de DESCENDANTS of Skyward Sword's as they came after him SS is the original ancestor

[@deecyp64]

@@VGInterviews true! But I don't think that's what he meang

[@OnlyTwoShoes]

No Indian calls themself a Native American

[@unconditionallove3820]

There could have been a sister or cousin to Sonia that would be considered a blood connection. Maybe its blood of spirit and not physical as well.

[@hintonempire1178]

Came to the comments to say this. Glad someone else thought the same. Occam's Razor.

[@angelawelby9993]

That was my thought also. I never thought Sonia and rauru had a child, though that would’ve awesome, I just assumed Sonia had family that took over when they passed.

[@orianefaton1885]

Plus, even if there is only one, we do know of an instance where there was more than one child in game, in the royal family, looking at Zelda 2, with the prince, AKA, Zelda's brother, the one who established that whole "naming the princesses Zelda" tradition. Which, I think is only done on the first born daughter, because otherwise, it would be a mess. Plus, it does mean that the Zelda from Zelda 1 is the descendant of the prince and that the sleeping Zelda is her (great something) aunt, so once again, we have an instance. Also even without it, we already had one time where enough time passed that this tradition faded away, with Wind Waker and Tetra. So, yeah, thinking that there may be more children in the royal family doesn't seem weird. For those where no siblings were mentioned, either that child has yet to be born (looking at Ocarina of Time, where Zelda is still kind of young), the queen had died before there could be another one (Breath of the Wild queen had died when Zelda was 6, if I remember right, so maybe), a possible combo (The adult timeline in general. Both Tetra and her future grand daughter Zelda. I mean, we don't see a mention of a king or queen in Spirit tracks, so they may be dead, but Zelda, being about 12 is deemed too young to properly take the throne, hence why she is still the "princess").

[@burger_kinghorn]

Sonia doesn't have to be a great great grandmother. She could be a great great aunt.

[@angelawelby9993]

Another theory is the light she sensed that was like rauru’s is because zonai are ‘gods’; and if the goddess blessed the Zelda and her ancestors with her sacred light, it stands to reason another god would have a similar light power as well.

[@tryatanmariehancock8154]

We also need to remember that they may have other relatives, at least in Sonia’s case. So they technically can be related, but mainly from Sonia’s bloodline and only Sonia‘s bloodline.

[@RaiRyu292]

Not seeing a child =/= no child.

[@mindsight9732]

There is such a character. Zelda, Mineru Sonia, and Rauru had a handmaiden, the unnamed Impa to Queen Sonia. Zelda has traditionally been entrusted to Impa for raising.Thus the Impa recording on the sky monuments, with the aide of Mineru, simply has to omit her duties to the child like they omit their name.

[@markrounseville6998]

One reason the child might not have been mentioned in those stories is that of protecting the child from outsiders that could harm him/her.

[@jorgeoquendo7514]

The blood of the goddess refers to the bloodline itself, ST Zelda is the only suitable vessel for Malladus because her bloodline carries sacred power. Its not like the blood is normal until the goddess makes it special at some point, it's always special. The royal family has mystical powers because of it. I'll level with you and agree that it is a little weird that the royal child wasnt mentioned in the ancient hyrulean monuments, but i think it's just that the child wasnt relevant to the story being told. They didn't need to reaffirm it's existence because prior to you finding *any* of the ancient hyrulean monuments you already saw the first dragon tear where Sonia says Zelda is blood related to her and that she has both powers within her. Given how we see all the other sages' powers are passed down by bloodline, as they all confirm when meeting their descendants, this means Zelda isn't just blood related to Sonia, but also Rauru. That paired with Zelda's line in front of the murals paints a clear picture, along with Sonia, one of the very two the murals are depicting, stating that they're blood related. It's hard for me to look at all that and be like "but the baby isnt mentioned or shown elsewhere". It was alluded to enough prior, it exists just by logic. Let's look at another instance of this in BOTW. In that, we're told that Link's father was a knight when Zelda says that Link has "chosen to follow in his father's footsteps". We then never see his father in any of the memories or any record of him left in modern time. Does it then make sense to think Zelda was wrong that Link's father was a knight? Or more accurately to the comparison, does it make sense to doubt the existence of his father? As far as Rauru possibly having "Triforce power", to our knowledge that's never been a thing. The Triforce supplies power to wielders of it's pieces and it is the source of ultimate power, but theres no such thing as "Triforce power". There is power of different aspects for sure, such as sacred, evil, light and dark. How do you suppose it works then? Because Ganondorf has had both individual pieces of the Triforce and the full triforce in his possession before and we know he's weak to sacred power. If the Triforce specifically gives off sacred power (since the light power is a sacred power) then how does he get stronger? Ganondorf got stronger by getting sacred power? It seems to work more like a battery in the sense that it supplies general power to its wielder. Ganondorf's evil power becomes stronger when he gets his Triforce in OOT and radiates from the temples, turning the world into a world of monsters. I think its exactly what it looks like, Zelda is a blood descendant of both Sonia and Rauru as she says. The sealing power is a sacred power comprised of both the time (blood of the goddess) and light (Rauru's sage power) powers, these two powers together synergize well and produce enough sacred power that using the sealing power makes a Triforce mark appear. In SS, Zelda directly states that "the mark on the back of your hand is proof that within you dwells sacred power". Link gets the mark when filled with sacred power, like his blade, at the sacred flames. The two powers synergize so well that the power of the royal family reaches another level of power entirely, as shown in the Molduga cutscene when it goes out of it's way to show Zelda's power burst out of her in rays that shock even Sonia, who was the one urging Zelda to help Rauru in the first place. It's why the Calamity was able to be fought back time and again, the royal ladies are much stronger now because of that union. Not even the amalgamation of Ganondorf's spilling hatred from within the seal, even over huge swathes of time (assuming 10,000 years between each Calamity for the hatred and grudge to accumulate), was able to just walk over them. The Triforce mark appears because of how powerful Zelda's sacred power is, that's why it only appeared prior to her holding the Calamity for 100 years straight, before she says her power has waned and when she swallows the thing that boosts her powers and starts exploding in sacred power and transforming into a dragon of sacred power. In both cases, power level is tied to the mark it seems. It appears on her again when shes pouring her power into the sword.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

I too agree that Zelda's And Rauru's Light Powers have nothing really to do with the Triforce except on her hand where the Symbol appepars on. It doesnt really has anything else to do with that Object. They just posess Light that Repells Evil. And also if they had the Triforce, this means they are technically unstoppable, otherwise why did Zelda struggle in BOTH Breath of the wild and Age of Calamity to hold back the Calamity if she had the full Triforce? This is potentially Allmighty Power we are talking about, how does a Being made of Sludge surpass the Triforce? This is only possible if: A: Ganon is Allmighty himself - which... obviously isnt the case, he does have immense Powers yet it doesn't surpass the Potential of what the Triforce could do. Or B: Ganondorf is embued with some power of all three of the Creator Gods already, the only weapon that can even destroy Entities posessing the Triforce is the Master Sword, A Weapon that repells any Evil even if it comes from the Triforce, and lorewise this makes sense since this Sword is not only fueled with Hylia's Divine Light to fight Evil but also with the Flames of the Creator Goddesses, yet unless Ganondorf took a shower in these flames there is no way that he would resist the Allmighty Power. And speaking of Hylia's Divine Light, I also think Rauru is more likely to be the Descendant of Skyward Sword Zelda, I mean I see why Sonia fits for that, she is a blond woman who everyone simps for. But her powers of Time doesnt really speak for it with Zelda's Light Powers which she has in every game since Skyward Sword apparently. I think it is more likely that Rauru is in some way related to Skyward Sword Zelda/Hylia - Not only Because of his Light Powers but also Because of the fact that Zonai are "Descendants of the Gods" Just like in Greek Mythology where Gods came from Titans, we have here ab entirely new race comming directly from Gods. The Japanese Text goes even so far to say that the Zonai are Kami. I don't know how exacty he could be Hylia's Descendant but either he is a Descendant of Skyward Sword Zelda or he is a Descendant of Hylia herself even

[@dalooneylass5561]

I have to agree that, while we never see Rauru and Sonia’s kid, that it doesn’t mean that the child doesn’t exist. It’s likely that the kid is never directly mentioned and only implied because the child as a character simply isn’t important to the story of totk. Nintendo simply felt that Sonia directly stating that Zelda is a blood descendant of herself and Rauru was a sufficient explanation as to their connection and didn’t feel the need to elaborate any further than that. TLDR : Their child being directly mentioned doesn’t matter cuz the child didn’t matter to the overarching story of totk.

[@LadyLocket]

In history Royal children ESPECIALLY if they are the direct heir are not raised by the King and Queen for multiple reasons, it's only in more modern times do we see Royals taking an active and hands-on approach to raising their children. Royal children are granted their own household, staff, guards and budget granted by the Crown almost from birth, only being presented to the court and interacting with their parents at set times or special events. It's also not common for there to be a special permanent throne for the heir, if they were granted permission to sit in the presence of the ruler (in a none dining setting) it would have been rare and even then it would just be very nice chair and pillow that would be brought in and placed on a lower step or off to the side.

[@jorgeoquendo7514]

@@LadyLocket Makes sense that there'd be no third throne, they'll eventually either leave or inherit the one already there. I think usually the children stand to the side like Zelda did, with only the rulers sitting

[@Ahouro]

Zelda has the Tri-force in her in Botw/Totk that is why the Tri-force mark appear, in SS Zelda the sacred power she mention is the Tri-force which is inside Link at that time.

[@psyborg89]

It's much more likely that Nintendo didn't like the idea of explicitly telling children that play their games that they had a child that was left motherless and fatherless cause that's pretty tragic given all the tragedies leading up to it, stacking that on too would be pretty dark

[@amandaslough125]

This is the same company that exposed 10 year olds to Dead Hands and Majora's Mask is literally "impending doom, the game".

[@psyborg89]

@@amandaslough125 i mean, those were scary, but not "dark" in the same way. It's more likely they just didn't want to invest the time in creating a different character, personality and design for something that was implied to be necessary for the lineage to continue

[@dice5709]

Then again its weird that they couple some furry oc with a human. Nintendo's ways are indeed mysterious or just stupid and ignorant.

[@seaslug9144]

Zelda was also orphaned before reaching adulthood though, as well as having her entire kingdom and everyone in it burn to the ground due to something she believed was her own fault. Even in this game they've touched on darker subjects, so my theory on why there is no child is that they simply didn't feel the need to spend all that time and effort designing what a hybrid would look like only for them to serve no narrative purpose

[@namikkou]

I mean.....another explanation is either that the child was hidden, or what I feel is more likely, _very young_. Like, baby/toddler max. It would make sense then why we don't see them. Rauru and Sonia could've been on a walk to take a break from caring for their child. A throne wouldn't yet be needed for a baby. A baby can't become a sage or fight. In all likelihood, I feel they had a baby who was being cared for by others in the castle, like most monarchies seem to do. They had their royal duties and were establishing Hyrule, they probably wouldn't have a lot of time to spend with their kid. If this is the case though, it's even more depressing, because their kid would be young enough to likely have no recollection of their parents at all

[@Btw_13]

That is exactly my opinion

[@3X3NTR1K]

Some food for thought: As long as Hylias bloodline remains unbroken (and not necessarily in a straight line) then it can serve as a direct connection across not only distant eras but also between timelines. No matter what theory one considers about when and how the Zelda timelines split and converged or what have you, that detail is *probably* important.

[@radiantgale]

....Whenever they mention the Royal Bloodline, it's always referenced as an actual bloodline and not some pseudo "well, actually..." meaning something else entirely. It would feel like an absolute rug pull and should make us question everything they tell us because if they can't be honest about what a bloodline is, then everything they say should be taken with grains of salt and can't be trusted unless verified. That's pretty exhausting, even for theorists. They didn't show the kid probably because they weren't relevant as far as the story progressed, but perhaps other reasons too like design or how to fit them naturally into the story, or even the fandom penchant of theorizing on everything and demanding answers of what happened to the child if revealed like with the Champions if they become too attached. I think the number of times they pointedly linked Zelda to Sonia and Rauru, like Zelda mentioning they were her ancestors, Sonia having powers of Time and Rauru having powers of Light while Zelda has both, are clear examples of such their intentions of being direct ancestors--regardless of whether the fandom hates how interspecies hybridization works realistically in a fantasy setting lol

[@TyTeaStrings]

8:27 to your point about the tradition of Princess’s being named Zelda stopping… who’s to say that Zelda going back in time didn’t reignite the tradition with any potential children between Rauru and Sonya? Maybe Zelda going back was a necessary step in order to somewhat reset events going forward, being her namesake and the crest? It seems possible if this is the same series where Link learned the song of storms from a man as an adult only so he could teach that same man the song as a child.

[@ibechuu9695]

That tradition only exists in the fallen timeline too moments prior to the NES Zelda II game. Not all timelines and families follow the tradition. It's just a popular family name in most cases to justify Zelda eventually getting her name back every time Hylia reincarnates again into "another Zelda".

[@Jeremyb2023]

I think it's possible that you're right, but I still lean towards the idea that there was a small child perhaps under the care of others during the events of Rauru and Sonya.

[@firionkaiser8291]

I was always given the assumption that after the Era of destruction the survivors of the Royal family were left to stay as priest and priestess (like their ancestors before Hyrule's establishment between the SS and Minish Cap) to a point where their family's traditions were lost which explains Sonya's name by the time of her era.

[@derperpines]

Just because an heir/child isn’t mentioned doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist at all. It’s just not that relevant to the plot of TotK. And besides, the cutscene where Sonia says she can sense she and Zelda are related by blood is supposed to be a blatant nod that yes, someone did continue the bloodline and you can see that Zelda and Sonia share the same green eyes. There’s no way the kingdom can continue without a proper heir so of course Rauru and Sonia had to conceive at some point. But again, just not that relevant to the plot/story of TotK and best left to the assumption of the player.

[@DonutSwordsman]

cmon, they mean spirit of the hero as in, the spirit of christmas, its something that cant be killed because there will always be a good person, a hero, to stand up and defend the people.

[@LordoftheMasterSword]

Agreed. Wind Waker Link is a prime example. Not a hero by birthright or chosen by the Gods to fulfill some preordained destiny, but just a kid trying to do the right thing, being courageous simply because the situation calls for it. He earned the acknowledgement of the Gods by showing heroism, and the Gods recognized and rewarded the hero's spirit. Game recognize game.

[@jorgeoquendo7514]

In BOTW, Zelda says "the sacred blade is forever bound to the soul of the hero" and Impa says "a warrior wielding the soul of a hero". The word used in JP is the same one Demise uses that was translated to "spirit", it translates to either spirit or soul. So in the context of the definition, it's "spirit" as in ghost; or soul.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@LordoftheMasterSwordWW Link still counts. He just had to prove himself because the timeline still registers that OoT Link left, so everyone's assuming he's gonna return.

[@LordoftheMasterSword]

@@amandaslough125 Hey there, I couldn't agree more. Out of curiosity, did you interpret my previous comment as me saying I don't think he counts? Not looking for confrontation by any means, just trying to clarify if perhaps I phrased the comment in a weird way that I can fix.

[@amandaslough125]

@@LordoftheMasterSword I did. Probably because I've seen a few too many people say WW Link doesn't count off and on recently. Not sure how you'd think to edit it though. The comment itself is written fine, it's just your stance on Link himself is ambiguous enough.

[@pezfam]

Something seemingly wrong in the context here is that Fujibayashi, the director of the game basically said that the entirety of the game, including the flashback scenes, take place after the rest of the timeline. And that Sonia and Rauru are founding a NEW Hyrule. While, I find this less satisfying, it’s the fix they gave to rectify the timeline issues presented in the game.

[@WindMageMaster]

That isn't what Fujibayashi said though. That part is largely taken out of context for a question about whether or not TotK retcons SS (which it doesn't). In an interview after that, both Fujibayashi and Aonuma were directly asked if the memories are the original founding of Hyrule, or a separate Hyrule far in the future of the timeline. They said: "The answer is both. Either can work depending on how the player wishes to interpret it". And they refused to give what they personally think.

[@lethallohn]

They go out of their way to say that Zelda has time and light powers, wouldn't that also suggest she's a direct descendant?

[@samlindsey8978]

Its probable that Sonia had siblings and Zelda is a direct descendant of one of those siblings, making her an indirect descendant of Sonia (which, frankly, is what I assumed). The term descendant itself is a bit wider than just direct children of your children - it can also include neices, nephews, grand nephews, etc. You don't need to be a direct descendant to be a dscendant at all.

[@1BadAssArchAngelvs14]

yes, I agree sometimes people forget certain single words have Multiple synonyms thus leading to different meanings and phrases.

[@ART1984able]

The problem with the theory right out of the game is that Zelda has BOTH Rauru and Sonia's powers and has royal blood thus making her a blood relative. Sonia says they're "blood relatives" in the freakin' flashbacks ie a "distant relation" ie thousands of years. It's pretty clear cut that they're related by blood and one of the points of the story was to allow Zelda a chance at experiencing some time with family she didn't get with Rhoam and her own mother.

[@christinehancock5995]

It's a fun theory, but it feels like you may have overthought it. The simplest explaination tends to be the most true; and Rauru and Sonia having children is about as simple as it gets. Zelda probably didn't include children in her memory because she only gave Link what she felt would be helpful to him. Chamberlain's failure to mention any children of the royal couple is a problem; and it would have been helpful to Hyrule historians if she had at least carved the children's names in the stone. But I guess she chose only to memorialize the dead (or good as dead). The evidence of children is Hyrule Castle itself. Without a stable royal family, it gets hard to explain a magnificent castle complex, complete with dungeons, mines, and massive labrynth full of statuary and murals. The project would have taken centuries build, and that's not something that happens when the legitimacy of the crown is in doubt. The most simple explaination is that Raura and Sonia had at least one child. Also, there's a simple explaination why we didn't see their child or children fighting in the war. You don't endanger the line of succession by having the heirs fight in war alongside the king, especially if they are young children.

[@Btw_13]

My exact opinion

[@dkelvey912]

Ancestors could also mean uncles and aunts so the person who took over for Rauru and Sonia could have been Sonia's sibling still giving a blood connection to generations down the line. There would be no metion of them because they were not officially apart of the royal family at that time, but filled the gap in power when Rauru and Sonia perished, thus allowing a new royal family to take over and change the crest to its current state.

[@keithtorgersen9664]

Something that I’ve been wondering about since TOTK came out, how did the bargainer statues co-opt the statue of hylia in the temple of time?

[@ViewerOnline101]

Skyward Sword takes place before Rauru and Sonia's time, the OG Link and Zelda FOUNDED Hyrule while Rauru and Sonia are the first of the royal family. Now, Sonia could have had a cousin or something who took over after her and Rauru's passing, and that person changed the royal crest, but based on what the game tells us, Zelda IS the direct descendant of Rauru and Sonia. You answered the reason we didn't see the child yourself, it was probably too young, maybe even an infant. Regardless, it doesn't matter that we didn't see the child or why, because by the the game told us, Zelda IS their descendant, so there HAD to be a child. And BOTW/TOTK Zelda possesses BOTH Rauru and Sonia's powers in addition to the power she inherits from the bloodline of the goddess, so she IS their descendant, meaning they did have a child, even if we didn't see it. We didn't see it because it was irrelevant to the story (Link had a father and sister too in BOTW, but they never appeared), but we were told that their must have been one by Zelda saying how she was a descendant Rauru and Sonia. As for why their child changed the royal crest, possibly to try and cover-up some of Hyrule's history to make sure Ganondorf remained undisturbed, because there WAS a cover-up involved. It's also plausible to think that the Zonai costume Link can obtain was based off their child.

[@Ahouro]

A little mistake SS Zelda didn´t founded the kingdom of Hyrule her Descendant did and the ancient hero aspect is more likely not based around Sonia and Rauru's child because the Calamity in the tapestry happen long after the sealing of Ganondorf.

[@DonutSwordsman]

did you notice how the tops of the head of the statues in the beginning have red hair? just like the ancient hero armor is shown to have as a zonai.

[@WindMageMaster]

Can I point out something? You have an issue with a child not being mentioned or seen in the memories, yet, later on in the video, you say that the Chamberlain was always around and close with Rauru and Sonia. Ok, well, there's not a single hint or mention of this Chamberlain in the memories either. The only reason we know such a person exists is because of that one side quest. So it seems you're making an exception there. Why does the Chamberlain, who is very close with Rauru, Sonia, Mineru, and even Zelda- get a pass for not being seen or mentioned in the memories, yet, a potentially young child doesn't? To a lesser extent, in BotW, both Daruk and Urbosa have their own descendants (Riju and Yunobo), yet, children are never mentioned or seen in memories or even their own journals. Therefore, I think it's more reasonable to say that Zelda being a descendant of Rauru and Sonia, isn't meant to be some crazy dance-around logic to how she's actually not, rather, they simply have a child off screen during the memory scenes, likely one they keep out of the public eye. I also don't think it's quite reasonable to say their child changed the crest, as that could've been done some generations later... but regardless, the crest existed before Hyrule was ever founded anyway.

[@rainwitchansy]

Eeeeeexcept it’s established that Zelda got her time powers from Sonia / Hylia’s line while she got her light powers from Rauru. Points for trying though! 😅

[@azraelvrykolakas157]

We've already met his daughter in ocarina of time the gazelle form is just his version of wolf link.

[@Mari_Izu]

Demise didn't issue the curse or was the responsible for the curse, he was just stating the karma that light and dark were cursed to clash forever and him dying would just bringh forth another demon king to continue, which was Ganon. And games where Ganon was defeated, we had other demon kings also fulfulling the role (like Malladus in Spirit Tracks)

[@thegreenthunder5416]

Having JUST finished watching GameGrump’s playthrough of Skyward Sword, I appreciate the Spoompls shoutout

[@Jus-X]

Very plausible theory. Could be that the "present events" of Skyward Sword occurred after Sonia and Rauru's passing, and the "past events" of Skyward Sword occur prior to the Zonai's arrival in the land. This could also mean since Demise was sealed in the past, when the curse placed, resulting in the first Ganondorf, who we see in TOTK cutscenes.

[@Ahouro]

Incorrect, Totk past must be after Oot because the Gerudo stopped having male leaders after Totk Ganondorf which makes it impossible for Totk past to be before Oot.

[@lasercraft32]

13:33 That is... assuming this actually _is_ Hylia speaking, and not something else pretending to be Hylia. 🤔

[@HylianSwordsman1]

Yeah I have to agree that it makes no sense for them to have had a kid. Their kid would have had historical significance. Even if the kid had been hidden from immediate historical writings like the chamberlain, he would have made it into history eventually. No way he wouldn't have been relevant to the story. That said, I see no reason whatsoever that Skyward Sword Zelda can't be related to BotW Zelda. Hylia shed her divinity, but her divine essence entered the blood of the royal family. It's carried in that blood. It doesn't manifest only in an era's Zelda, it's always there. Tying her divinity to a bloodline like this allows her to reincarnate time and time again, always as that era's Zelda. In other family members, the divine essence is present, but mostly dormant, in the sense that they may have magic granted by that divine essence, but not every female is an incarnation of the goddess. Not every generation has or needs a Zelda or even a daughter. A Zelda appears preemptively when Hyrule is going to be in trouble. She's not called Zelda because of a family tradition, though such a tradition sometimes exists and sometimes doesn't. Rather she's called Zelda and appears in times of strife because fate conspires to make it so. Hylia's last act in shedding her divinity didn't only tie her divinity to royal blood, it tied the spirit of the hero to reincarnate in times of strife, and it tied both of them to appear together so as to always be there to defend the kingdom. Destiny itself was altered by Hylia's last divine act. So yes, there's been periods of calamity and decline, but it never destroyed the royal family bloodline, because the same spell that binds the blood of the goddess to reincarnate as Zelda in the royal family in times of trouble also protects the bloodline of the royal family. Even when the kingdom was destroyed well and truly in the Wind Waker, the royal bloodline survived, though it was brought so low that the heir that incarnated as the next Zelda became a pirate. But it reestablished itself by Spirit Tracks. The continuous bloodline of the royal family and even its connection to royal status has been strained, but never broken. It appears to have divine plot armor granted by Hylia's final blessing before shedding her divinity. As such, I suspect Sonia has the blood of the goddess, by genetic descent from SS Zelda, but that she isn't an incarnation of the goddess like BotW Zelda is, and probably isn't the only Hylian from her time with the blood of the goddess. Zelda isn't a descendant of Sonia directly, but of some other royal blood that carried on the bloodline after the death of Rauru and Sonia. Such people carrying that blood weren't mentioned because they weren't relevant to the story, they were just the people related to Sonia by blood who inherited the throne after Sonia and Rauru died. And while I say that the divine magic of the blood of the goddess is mostly dormant between Zeldas, it's quite obviously not totally dormant. The memories of BotW center around Zelda trying to awaken her divine sealing power that she's expected to have because it simply runs in the family. So the divine power of Hylia running through the blood of the royal family isn't just part of the lore established in Skyward Sword, but canonically on display in BotW. Speaking again of the SS lore, it bears mentioning that Demise's curse isn't what makes the spirit of the hero reincarnate or the goddess incarnate in a princess of Hyrule's royal blood. Demise's curse merely curses their fates to create an incarnation of his hatred wherever they appear. Hylia had already reincarnated in Hyrule royal blood as SS Zelda by that time, and SS Link isn't the first hero, but rather the first reincarnation of the spirit of the first hero. The magic causing these reincarnations was already in place before Demise uttered his curse. Hylia's final blessing that made her incarnate as Zelda and Link repeatedly reincarnate as the hero of each era is mentioned in the official Skyward Sword manga, but even if you don't regard that manga as canon, that blessing is on full display in SS. Hylia is mentioned in game to have had a chosen hero before SS Link, and the game clearly shows Zelda is the incarnation of Hylia without Demise needing to curse to make it so. The evidence seems clear from Skyward Sword and BotW that Hylia's magic controls fate to some degree to both reincarnate Link and tie her ability to reincarnate to a specific bloodline that carries her magic, so that bloodline must be protected, no matter how many eons pass.

[@Sarah_H]

The original Zonai/Hyrule crest might've been split in two, with the wings being used by the Hylians and the all-seeing eye used by the Sheikah, who came after the Zonai and based their designs and technology on Zonai tech Also in the same cutscene where Sonia says that she and Zelda "share a blood connection", she also says "I can feel *your* [Rauru's] Light power within her, as well as *my* Time power". With this theory in mind, it might be that the full Triforce equals Light, not Time; Power, Wisdom, and Courage in perfect balance creates the Light necessary to banish Evil/Darkness, Sonia only says "your" and "my" because she's speaking from her own frame of reference (like how Rauru later says to Zelda on the eve of the Imprisoning War "that was a future where you never appeared in this world. And you are here now", because he doesn't have the frame of reference that this past has always happened this way and Zelda was always going to be here). So Zelda being in possession of both the blood of the Goddess AND the Triforce means that she has both Light and Time powers, not because she's directly related to Sonia and Rauru

[@Ahouro]

The Sheikah are way before the Zonai same for the all-seeing eye and Zelda 100% related to both.

[@Sarah_H]

@@Ahouro the ancient Sheikah who built the Divine Beats took direct inspiration for the Divine Beasts from Zonai architecture. Camels in the Lightning Temple = Naboris, elephants in the Water Temple = Ruta, lizard heads in the Fire Temple = Rudania, bow of the Stormwind Ark = Medoh, and the Guardians had lasers similar to the Zonai beam emitters. So that means the Zonai's technology existed before the ancient Sheikah we saw in BotW

[@Ahouro]

@@Sarah_H The Sheikah existed long before Rauru´s Hyrule even long before the first Hyrule and before Skyloft was a thing too.

[@mr.awesome6011]

Just because we don't see the children, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. In fact, this isn't the first time Nintendo has done this. Bowser Jr. Was introduced in Super Mario Sunshine in 2002. 17 years after the first Super Mario Bros. The characters clearly haven't aged much, if at all in the canon of the games since then, so that means not much time has passed up to that point, meaning Bowser Jr. was already born. Mario and Peach first discover that Bowser had a son in Sunshine, meaning Bowser kept his kid at home likely with minons babysitting whole Bowser continued his conquest and his existence was simply never brought up.Once Bowser Jr. was old enough he started joining dad on some of his conquests. The same likely happened with Rauru and Sonia's child/children until they were old enough to carry on the lineage that leads to Zelda.

[@WolforNuva]

I agree it's odd we don't see or hear of a child, but not so odd that it's completely implausible. I think following the implications that Sonia and Ruaru had a child to continue the lineage seems more plausible. Otherwise we have to keep assuming that every time they hint or directly state at a direct blood lineage that Nintendo didn't actually mean to say what they are saying. Those are some heavy assumptions to make imo. The one point that I don't think has an easy explanation for are the messages from the ancient past. That's a good solid point, but alone it can easily be an anomaly or oversight, I at least would need a few more points of similar quality. Still a good shot at explaining your idea and why.

[@pezfam]

Occam’s Razor. The less assumptions made in a claim, the more likely it is to be true. In this case. There are far less assumptions to come to the conclusion that they just had a child that wasn’t mentioned, then there were over the course of this video.

[@WolforNuva]

​@@pezfam Exactly right. It's not necessary to apply when theory crafting and just having fun, but this video is framed as a serious attempt to get the viewer to reconsider canon, so Occam's Razor comes into full effect.

[@spacejay2677]

"Zelda possède nos deux pouvoirs, Rauru. Celui du temps et celui de la lumière. En outre, il ne fait aucun doute que cette jeune fille est de notre sang." - Sonia translated: "Zelda possesses our two powers, Rauru. That of time and that of light. Moreover, it is without a doubt that this young woman is of our blood." in the french version, there is more nuance added to what sonia says about them sharing a blood connection. sonia is actually saying: i sense that we (myself and rauru) share a blood connection (with you, zelda). both of them, not just the girlies. i'm not sure what the japanese says. but if they were trying to translate this line as sonia solely talking about herself, they would have used different phrasing in french. whereas in english it is ambiguous, so it could mean this.

[@PlagueOfGripes]

I was expecting more of a smoking gun than the game not overtly showing a child. My assumption is just that it would be an extraneous plot point and maybe a little off putting to some, so it just wasn't shown.

[@merlumili]

I *have* to tell you I clicked on this mostly because the thumbnail can be read in two ways and both make sense. Idk why but that was impressive to me. Anyway, cool video!

[@alexkuhn5188]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this, I personally believe that Rauru and Sonia did have a child but we just don’t see it because Nintendo just didn’t think it was important enough to show us said child. Unless of course we DO see that child in the Ancient Hero’s Aspect, The Ancient Hero being the child of Rauru and Sonia would explain their strange appearance and the Ancient Hero may have been called such because they cleaned up the aftermath of Ganondorf being sealed as all of his monsters wouldn’t just disappear.

[@HelBerry]

my brain be like "royal bloodline of the child godess" nice thumbnail 👁👄👁

[@robingrooms7534]

I definitely like your interpretation of Zelda being sent back to fulfill the curse's requirements in addition to the sword-healing. Any of the three, demon, goddess, or hero is able to die in their fight during the cycle. Sonia wasn't killed during a typical battle though, so having a replacement makes sense. I could definitely see Sonia being more like Zelda's cousin or something. Both descended from Skyward Zelda, but not a direct line. So then, would you propose that whoever takes over the new kingdom of Hyrule after Rauru, Sonia, and Zelda leave is just some schmuck with no goddess bloodline to speak of? Would that bloodline reconnect after a generation or so with some other cousin-of-Zelda goddess-blooded lady? Hylia being back in botw and totk is my biggest peeve with the lore of those games, it undercuts the story of skyward so directly with no explanation. I can't imagine you think that what happens to Zelda in Skyward (being a mortal form of a goddess who gave up her full divinity) is what happens to Zelda in totk. You can't give up your immortality more than once. Good presentation! I'm here for the discussion.

[@hchatnation]

About who took over after Sonia and Rauru, all that were left in the "inner circle" were Hylians. They served the royal family, and Sonia must have been a prominent figure before marrying Rauru and becoming royalty. I'm sure there were some other "higher-ups" who took over. Maybe it was family of Sonia's, maybe it wasn't. As for Zelda in TotK, you are right - Hylia reincarnated one time, and that resulted in Zelda from Skyward Sword being born with the Blood of the Goddess. But that blood was cursed. So I think whenever Ganondorf, or Demise's hatred incarnate, is present within the land, the next royal female is born with the Goddess's blood since, you know, it's cursed to do so. And that's the order of it, right? The hatred incarnate shows up, and the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero respond. So not multiple reincarnations, but rather, women being born with Hylia's cursed blood. Maybe in this new era of the wild, all of the women were born with it because Ganondorf was technically alive, present under the castle. That would explain Zelda's mother having power, but the literal birthing of children wasn't required for the goddess' blood to be passed on.

[@jorgeoquendo7514]

@@hchatnation This is a popular misconception, Demise's curse does not force Link to reincarnate or do anything to Zelda's bloodline, that's simply not in the wording. What Demise says is that "an incarnation shall ever follow" [those with the spirit and blood], so the curse is that something evil will show up to create conflict with those with the spirit and blood. Also, I'd like to make you aware that a recent dev interview confirms that Link and Zelda reincarnate, which explains how she is always special even in comparison to the royal family, who also share the blood of the goddess

[@pippinmcblizzy1789]

Love this theory! I feel people tend to get hung up on “sharing a bloodline” and “descents” as being DIRECT. But that’s not always the case! Collateral descendants include siblings, nieces and nephews. I think it’s possible that Sonia had other family members that had children and that is how they are connected by blood. Sonia’s siblings would not be as plot relevant as a child making their inclusion in the story not mandatory. Only Sonia was the Queen of Hyrule. Since we don’t know of any backstory for her it’s possible that she had a number of siblings who were out adventuring, fighting monsters or raising families while the events of TOTK took place. Zelda could be a DIRECT descendant of one of Sonia’s siblings thus making them share a blood line.

[@computernerd1101]

The problem I have with the whole "legends get distorted over time" excuse is that Zelda physically time traveled to the distant past, so historical misconceptions are irrelevant if Zelda can clear them up with her own eyewitness account. If there's any contradictions in previous Zelda games, that would imply that those games are the historical misconceptions, and are misremembered versions of what Zelda witnessed in the past in Tears of the Kingdom. But if the other Zelda games aren't canon, then that opens the floodgates for a future game to say that Tears of the Kingdom isn't canon either.

[@rGGdom]

I really like your theory, since to me, in order to keep making sense of a cohesive Zelda chronology, the Zonai era must be encapsulated as much as canonically posible. At least for us who don't want to consider TotK as a retcon of the classic Zelda lore. But what about the ancient zonai hero? how do you think he came about? because during TotK past there's already only 2 Zonai left. Maybe a descendant of Mineru then?

[@keithtorgersen9664]

Thanks for referencing a mass destruction event. It gives more substance to my theory that the Hyrule in BOTW and TOTK might actually be New Hyrule as referenced in Spirit Tracks, leftover from the world wide flood.

[@awkwardsquirtle]

Sonia and Raaru both were surprised ti hear Zelda's name. As if it was a coincidence

[@mazhiwezakizo3513]

The "child" was never mentioned or shown anymore than the children of the Champions are ever shown or mentioned. How many Zelda games has the King been mentioned, but the Queen is completely left and never talked about? Parents and children that are not important to the story, never get talked about or brought up. This is something that appears alot in other Japanese story telling. It's also never implied that there is always one daughter born every generation, only that daughters are automatically named Zelda after a certain period. Its entirely a mandate by Fate (or Plot) that during every "Cycle" there is a Zelda and Link, hell, in Windwaker, Zelda's actual name is Tetra, and she "Becomes Zelda" when the spirit of the King says so. Also, Link isn't tied to any specific bloodline, except in "A Link to the Past", and that was more to do with a Prophecy predicting who the next Link would be. Ocarina of Time Link likely never produced any children to continue his bloodline, as he ultimately dies in a Lost forest, and in other timelines is either dead, or no longer exists.

[@danyczer5809]

I think it’s okay to recognise that, although we are Zelda fans and we absolutely love tears of the kingdom, this problem in the lore is simply bad/lazy storytelling 😅😅 that doesn’t mean all the game and story is bad, it just means they were probably focusing and working hard in the gameplay and other stuff under the circumstances of the pandemic and it’s normal for this type of games to have plot holes 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ maybe they will fill us in more with a DLC or a next game like they always do. At the end of the day, this is how this stuff works in these types of projects (or at least that’s my opinion)

[@Turo602]

Hmm, what if Rauru and Sonia being ancestors of Zelda isn’t referring to family, but race. It's said Hylians have pointed ears so they can hear the gods and be closer to them... The Zonai are literally described as being gods and the first one we see is married to a Hylian woman. Ears are a pretty important detail in Tears of the Kingdom, as the Gerudo of the past are depicted with round ears and only in the present are they given pointed ears after generations of mating with Hylian men. Sonia and every other Hylian in the ancient past are all depicted with much larger ears than modern Hylians. Zonai have really large pointed ears as well, so it's possible this trait is the result of Zonai/gods breeding with Hylians. This means Zelda doesn't have to be directly related to Rauru or Sonia, but possess the blood of both Hylian and Zonai, therefore, without their union, she wouldn't exist.

[@KrishGandhi787]

To simplify the theory, at some point either skywards sword Zelda or some other future descendant of SW Zelda had multiple kids, and all or at least 2 of these kids started their own linages creating two branches of the royal family that has the blood of the goddess one linage descended into Sonia and with her death ended there and the other branch descended into botw Zelda.

[@jonathanadorno6727]

My theory is we had alot of zonai hylian hybrids. which becuase their diffrence lived in the depth. and when calmity emerged first time (before the sheika tech battle) most were wiped out so by the time of the tapestry there was only one left which became the hero. i feel this can be expanded on.

[@Michelle-ro1sl]

the spoompls reference hit me in the face like a truck

[@chill0wan]

This explains why Hylia is never mentioned anywhere

[@yaaaaarn]

so... here's a theory. what if hylia repeated history? was reborn as zelda 100 years ago in botw. but before she could speak to her incarnation, calamity ganon struck too early. that's why zelda couldn't unlock her power until link almost dies, because hylia made it so to save the spirit of the hero. maybe hylia knew about the time loop zelda created by going back in time, and knew what would happen with ganondorf. hence why she had both time and light powers, but instead of becoming the time dragon she became the light dragon to repair the mastersword. what if this was all constructed by hylia but things kept going horribly wrong like calamity ganon coming back too soon and sonia dying?

[@funnature8679]

Off topic, I think how the shiekah tech dissapeared happened in the same way as the master cycle went inside the shiekah tower that has a module, yet there are some remaining parts that are uneffected, it sought to protect and hide itself from Ganon's magic, the same can be said with the divine beasts Vah ruta and other 3 beasts.

[@Darth1Marik]

I always found it odd that she said she sensed a blood connection. Maybe just Hylian blood? Maybe everyone read into it wrong? Cuz yes we do see they dont have a kid and she dies before anything happens. I have to wonder what Nintendo was thinking unless this was a translation error. Video games are no stranger to lost dialogue or communication issues due to context being lost in translation.

[@jamesfriesen4203]

4:52 rohru and Sonia didn't have a child because they don't know if they are physically compatible with each other

[@Silverwildflowers]

This is not consistent with any of the lore or facts of this games past. this theory hold no water and ignores all other lore in the older games.

[@jacalynnepuder1172]

Im got a theory that might explain why the royal crest changed: maybe a loyal companion to the first king had taken over the kingdom after he died. Doesn't explain why the whole princess zelda thing, but helps to explain the family crest changes

[@jarrettlone]

Maybe it’s like Amy and Kif from Futurama and there’s a random Hylian carrying the royal child when Rauru goes to face Ganondorf.

[@RikkiJVelez]

This is a well thought out theory. I guess the reason I still hold on to Rauru and Sonia having a child is the fact Zelda inherits both Sonia’s time based powers and Rauru’s light based powers. If it was just a matter of Zelda and Sonia both being from the bloodline of the Goddess, that would make sense why Zelda has time powers but it doesn’t explain how Zelda has Rauru’s light powers.

[@NicolasMendoula]

Because they aren't the same species... They can't probably procreate. Zonai seemed to be like aliens... Plus they're divine goats.

[@Nio744]

To quote Ian Malcolm: "Life.. uh.. finds a way."

[@thomashenry4798]

Religion For Breakfast has a video exploring Hylian demonology, that is very interesting because it goes into depth in what they see as Hylianism, or the religion surrounding the worship of the Goddess Hylia.

[@Koppeling]

They had to have. Sonia did not have the blood of the goddess. Ruaru did. He had the light power. The only way Zelda would be related to Sonia would be for her and Rauru to have a child. Not to mention that Zonai child who became the ancient hero. They had to have.

[@ja-melvinson7994]

This theory does make sense considering Hylia in SS was canonically able to see through time EXCEEDINGLY far

[@gamergirl209]

The thing I think about is we have no idea exactly how long Zelda is in the past. It could have been a week or multiple years. I also always thought that perhaps a sister of Sonia would be Zeldas ancestor.

[@PrismOpal64]

idk I'm still confused on who/what the ancient hero was for the first calamity when they clearly look like a Zonai mix, but Rauru and Mineru were the last Zonai to exist on the world and the calamity was just Ganondorf's malice trying to seep out of the castle. There are so many unanswered questions that are left up to ambiguous interpretation rip

[@Ahouro]

The ancient hero is a Link and most likely a descendant of a union of Zonai and Hylian.

[@anthonydavis5826]

The appearance of the Ancient Hero, based on the Hero’s Aspect, suggests someone who is part Zonai and part Hylian. It seems logical that this would be the child of Rauru and Sonia, since Rauru appears to have been the first Zonai to marry a Hylian, and the only Zonai left by that time were he and his sister. Where this child was during the events immediately preceding and during the Imprisoning War, we can only speculate, unless Nintendo decides to give us DLC after all. But there does seem to be some kind of physical, literal offspring of Rauru and Sonia, not just a spiritual one. Perhaps he was removed from the official records and hidden away for his own protection. He was probably never a king himself, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have married into the Royal Family and become Zelda’s progenitor, after the first war against the Calamity 10,000 years ago.

[@valeriosalgado4053]

In law school we learn: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[@hchatnation]

And that’s why this is just a theory, GAME THEO- sorry.

[@shirleyscott2018]

There is a possibility that the child grew up and went on a adventure while they died then when they came back they became the king or queen

[@ededdynedd]

Sirpotatobottom said it the absolute best. But this is incorrect. Stories don’t have to literally spell out everything, they tell you just enough of what you need to know so they don’t waste time and distract from the main plot because pacing is a thing.

[@coryhafer7285]

The golden goddesses seen what had become of their creation and how it fractured into three. They each took a strand and together woven time into a single braid. Of all things which were the same, these would merge and all variations of its history they would retain. Of all that were different had become reduced to the most basic energy of creation. Unable to erase this energy, the golden goddesses shaped it into the Zonie. This is why they seemed to all the other beings as something akin to gods with their technology and magics.

[@acre4406]

This is my wretched theory: Zelda is the sage of time, She has time traveled, become a dragon for milenia and controlled sick powers before she even 20 yo. Imagine how off the charts hers powers and knowledge are going to be when she's 40 or so. By that time, Link has already moved on with his life and eloped with Zidon, She just can go back in time and bang Sonia's hot grandpapa for what we know. That's why they share blood. Probe me wrong.

[@josephjoestarrequiem-bub1340]

But Zelda is actually Hylia and Zelda 9:20 ?!?!?!!!!!!

[@lucashummel5952]

Do you think totk takes place during the downfall timeline of the zonai hero?

[@M.E.M.O.10-50]

What makes you think their child is still a child? These are very long-lived races. The child could be grown and living independantly.

[@philippelavoie5674]

I fully wached the video and now confused is my name.

[@NoctisNoxFleuret]

There's no need to twist the truth that far to fit a theory, Nintendo just didn't bother wasting money in a character model of a child that wouldn't have impact on the plot.

[@markmadsen1791]

At 2:10 - You mean like the two very specific scenes you just mentioned? Nintendo does NOT need to further imply anything after those two scenes as they did the job just fine. Asking for or expecting more is foolish. At 3:30 - Not if it where a literal baby. No age was specified for any potential child and as such assuming it to be older is foolish. At 9:50 - There are many reasons not to write about a child that could very well be in danger. Also nothing says that Sonia and Rauru where the first pair of Hylian and Zonai to have a child so they may not be anything special outside of being royalty. This is another foolish assumption. Every thing you have suggested has a solid in story reason to be so, as well as a real life reason. Even if the part of your theory about the Goddess empowering a chosen daughter of the royal family is true, the royal family says it's descended from that union and we have no evidence to say otherwise. After all "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." The child may very well exist and until actual evidence is put forward that it doesn't I must trust what I'm told in the story.

[@joshfinn1432]

I like to think it was Sonia "brother" that stepped up and their family crest is different from Raru and Sonia. But it's up to each other own interpretation to what you believe happens. Still a great no matter how you slice it.

[@mandrag4286]

So just to be frank, even if the impression of Sonia and Rauru not having a child is false, in the broad scope of things this guy's video isn't 'objectively' wrong though, as in not on the basis of understanding how the bloodline can continue in the hypothetical event of it being exterminated, in which basically it can continue through divine providence if it can't be sustained through organic reproductive means, and we have strong cases/implications backed with developer statements on familial connections like this happening. Take the prospective hero for example. Link as the hero is what ALttP mentions is genealogically tied to the Knights of Hyrule and that the prospect of the hero will be born out of that bloodline. The game conversely goes on to establish that the bloodline nearly died out at the height of the IW: > "Long ago, there was a family of people who protected the Hylian royal family.They were called the Knight Family, who kept charge of the Crest of Courage, but when the Seven Sages' seal was carried out, I'm afraid most of them perished in the battle with the demons. The hero is supposed to appear out of that family." Ganondorf by the end of OoT had a vendetta against the likes of Link, Zelda, and the sages, and swore that he "would exterminate their descendants." The Historia proclaims that the Knights of Hyrule are descendants of a hero who governed the Crest of Courage and that, much to the same regard as ALttP, ensures that the hero will rise out of the family. We know that the Knights tried to oppose Ganondorf when he attacked Hyrule according to the King of Red Lions: > "Long ago, Ganon's Tower was an impenetrable fortress that not even the daring and dauntless Knights of Hyrule could hope to assail." Ganondorf was described by Laruto to have returned to Hyrule "in a red wrath" which essentially means he was bloodlusted in carrying out his promise he made at the end of OoT. All in all, the likelihood of him eliminating the bloodline of the Knights, akin to ALttP's IW, is high since he was bloodlusted, had a personal vendetta, and no one was able to stop him hence, the people having to rely on the gods. Yet, the hero tied to that bloodline still persists in the HoW. Even on the chance the bloodline survived for the hero to be born, Aonuma testifies that these kinds of connections of a lineage aren't really necessary to be made for Link to carry out this role: > Aonuma: "**I think the easiest way to explain this is that Link is always the main character in Zelda titles.** With new games, naturally people are going to think does this Link relate to the Link from the last game? The thing is, when making a new Zelda game, we don't necessarily start with the storyline first, we start with the game, and we think, what's Link going to be like in this game? What kind of character is he going to be, and what kind of personality is he going to have. **In that sense for us, we didn’t necessarily feel there was a need to have an infinitive connection between everything, because it was this idea that Link is the hero no matter what. He's here and he's part of the story.**" Aonuma here clarifies that Link's role as the hero isn't really fixed to any predeterministic conditions like an orthodox lineage and that the role is carried out because the story simply demands it, and the story of the franchise is generally revolved around Link, Zelda, Ganon and the Triforce. There's even in-game lore in ALttP that reinforces that stance: > "Do you know the prophesy of the "Great Catastrophe"? I heard it like this...'If one with an evil heart claims the Triforce, a "Hero" will unfailingly appear, and shall defeat the one who will become the origin of this "Great Catastrophe"[...] yes the only ones who are supposed to be able to become the Hero those of the knight family who protected the Hylian royal family...**You carry their blood don't you**?" One of the only underlying predetermined conditions for a "guaranteed" hero in line with one of the major narrative premises of the 'Zelda story' is the Triforce being abused for evil. This, coupled with Aonuma's statement, renders the whole facet of the Knight's bloodline to ultimately be more of a formality to help facilitate the hero's upbringing, but the concept of the hero's appearance exists on the very principle of countering evil on account of the goddesses, whilst still adhering to that bloodline regardless of imposing circumstances that may threaten the bloodline. Ganondorf states as much in his cut TP dialog: > "When the chosen ones appear...They are always born in this world in perfect balance. That is the destiny of the chosen. That is the fate decreed by your gods, the only path for those who bear their crests. When this world brings forth another marked as you are...**know too that it shall also be visited by one of my blood.**" Divine providence keeps this arrangement of bloodlines of the chosen recipients of the Triforce intact even if it were destroyed or can't be sustained through standard means. There's even the mention by Tingle of Farore blessing Outset Island in TWW and the Great Deku Tree stating that Ganondorf's revival will see to the rise of a hero that gives credence to this: > "Outset Island was said to be blessed by Farore, the Goddess of Wind." > "The mission that the divine had given to the king of red lions was to find a hero that could defeat Ganon, assuming that, in the worst of the cases, he would revive." Outset Island is culturally etched in the tradition of grooming children into heroes to defeat evil, all the while being the abode for a shard of the Triforce of Courage and the "Hero's Charm" item. This gives compelling grounds for believing that the blessings Outset Island received was in the advent of the hero to defeat Ganondorf regardless if Ganondorf destroyed the Knight's bloodline or not, because the existence of a hero to defeat the evil one abusing the Triforce is preordained by divine jurisdiction, per the Great Cataclysm prophecy and Ganondorf's cut dialog in which the gods ensures that the blood in the chosen recipients is preserved. This guy's video is only suggesting that the bloodline of the goddess is a transcendental necessity in the hypothetical event Sonia and Rauru didn't have a child, as in it can and will persist beyond physical reproduction in scenarios where the latter can't be achieved by the recipients themselves, and again the Great Deku Tree is a chief example of this; the Kokiri and Koroks have no biological parents, he is their creator, he is a guardian deity, Fado and Makar share the same blood as the prospective Wind Sages tied to the responsibility of monitoring the God's power within the Master Sword for the prospective hero. Divine providence is etched into the core of Fado and Makar's connection. Zelda is the fated bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom and that arrangement stems from the Goddesses' edict for balance between the chosen bearers in carrying on the blood, and that balance directly correlates with the constituents of the soul of the hero, the blood of the goddess, and Demise's incarnations. Sure, saying Rauru and Sonia not having a child to carry on the lineage is pretty far-reaching but there is iron-clad lore supplemented by developer statements that establishes that bloodlines can be formed by lateral means.

[@hchatnation]

You understood the main point I was attempting to communicate. Extremely well thought out and sourced commentary here

[@mandrag4286]

@@hchatnation Yeah. I posted a different explanation about 3 months ago on your short covering this topic if you remember; it was the one where I explained the bloodline between sages is also lateral. This newer explanation here is actually a copy-and-paste post I made from a reddit thread on r/truezelda about the same topic, but in tried-and-true reddit fashion it got down voted by the reddit herd mentality without even so much as anyone even properly evaluating the credibility in it, only critiquing it as ridiculous because it challenges the consensus of something that is blatantly ambiguous. Go figure I guess, but I find it baffling how people just dismisses an explanation thats supported by concrete evidence and developer confirmations as ridiculous without even having a good rebuttal against it.

[@Moon-Vixen]

while I'm not exactly in the best position to poo poo this as someone who firmly believes Rauru's kingdom is not a refounding and takes place around SS rather than all at the end of the timeline, this still feels like such a desperate need to turn a horse into a zebra just because the Japanese form of storytelling isn't like the western style. Japan doesn't feel the need to beat you over the head with details for their intent to get across like the west does, so throwing a whole bunch of "they have a child" just to drive the point home would, to the Japanese audience, feel like they're being beat over the head with it. there are 4 main moments that confirm a child. the blood connection (which is specifically stated to include the both Sonia and Rauru, not just Sonia herself) that is further proven by Zelda having inherited both their light and time powers, Zelda's comment looking directly at Rauru and Sonia in the mural and calling them her ancestors, AND Rauru stating to Ganondorf that even should they (Rauru and Sonia) should fall, their kingdom would continue. like, come on. did he really have to tell his most dangerous enemy "I have a kid bruh" directly to make that clear? when it's already been stated twice already? remember, Japan prefers subtlety. they don't like feeling like they're being beaten over the head with a rolled up newspaper over small details like that. and BOTW and TOTK even more so is absolutely FULL of subtle storytelling. and yes, I saw the "light power is just triforce power" argument you make, but in BOTW/TOTK we only see the actual triforce show up 3 times. two scenes are on Zelda's hand, showing she has the entire triforce within her, and when she's supporting Rauru. it makes far more sense that, as her power is shown as much stronger than Sonia's, and she is directly channeling her powers into Rauru, that he's drawing on the triforce from within Zelda. had she not been there to boost his power, that likely would not have appeared. and as for us never seeing the child/the child never being mentioned directly, we see only the smallest snippets of memories with only the most important info Zelda knew Link would need (the way she drops the last tear after we've found the others tells me she, as a dragon, knows how to do this instinctively and it is intentional). and like, couples can take a walk just the two of them without their kid. that is very normal. as is there not being a seat for the prince or princess in the throne room. most depictions of throne rooms only ever have enough chairs for the ruling monarch, ie, the king and/or queen. and for all we know, those 5 stories are simply the only *surviving* stories. yes, it was a weird choice to not show the child, but TOTK made a lot of weird choices. but one thing we're shown in several ways is that all traces of the Zonai was hidden away. Rauru's castle is entirely dismantled, the temple is hidden in the sky along with tons of other Zonai structures, and anything that isn't already underground is locked away (like the forgotten temple, what an apt name) or covered in new, crude stonework to give the illusion of an uncivilized, "barbarian" society that wouldn't be especially interesting to thieves and treasure hunters, and would satisfy the curiosity of archeologists. that way, everything set up for Link so far in the future had a good chance of staying as it was when he was ready for it, rather than some good meaning scholar dismantling something important because they had no idea what its true purpose was. also, as for Hylia, I don't think we're literally talking to Hylia in the statues. they talk of each other like they're different entities, that's why the 3 at the springs are distressed when they "can't hear the voice of the mother statue" in the forgotten temple. if Hylia herself, the whole ass goddess, posessed every statue in the moment Link prays to it, there would be no one in the other statues to be communicated with. however, there is a Shinto belief that gods and goddesses are able to separate parts of themselves into new beings that are both them and not them, and many can exist at a time. we see this in Pokemon's Legends Arceus where Arceus, the glowing ball of light at the start of the game, creates one of these that takes the "deer stuck in the fence" form that is explicitly only a small portion of "its power", as a reward for besting it in battle. we've all made jokes about 10 year olds catching literal all powerful "god" in a pokeball, but we can see now what it really is. and I think that's what Hylia did. it's a small portion of herself that lives in the statues, and likely a small portion of herself that was born as the original SS Zelda, and very possibly is reborn beside Link every time an incarnation of Demise is born (and this is also why multiple Ganons could exist at once), and is how the blood of the goddess never "runs out" even after all these endless ages, and this would also explain why Zelda's power was stronger than Sonia's. more than just having the triforce, she is also a living spirit of the goddess directly. but hey, like I said, I also question commonly believed "truths" about this game, so don't let me rain on your parade lol

[@anikadusek3160]

The royal Child is my absolutely favorite Character in the Zelda Series! He is so great. I love him so much! 😍💖

[@WarriorOfWriters]

I don't think Eonuma thought that much about the lore when he retconned the entire time line.

[@trenton9]

There's no shame in calling this what it is - a plot hole. We're stretching the bounds of logic to explain away what the narrative of TOTK made explicit; Zelda is a descendant of Rauru and Sonia, which is why Zelda possesses both light and time powers. The writers simply forgot to explain a line of descent before Sonia left the picture. I'm not convinced the writers intended to leave this story gap.

[@nullvoid1x]

I think that it is sonias brother/sister (keeping the time power while still having goddess hylia)

[@ishmaelottmam]

Why would fans dismiss skyward sword and previous titles when the creators said in an interview back in 2020 that it takes place after Twilight Princess (can’t remember the timeline)???

[@amandaslough125]

I don't remember this interview. But I do hate the fans that assume it has to be fallen timeline because the sages somehow don't awaken in the child one. So I'll gladly take the possibility.

[@Ahouro]

Aonuma said in 2017 that Botw is after Oot on the timeline, source Game informer March 2017 page 48.

[@fatalwaffle1715]

Interesting Video.

[@drop9502]

It's not Fee. It's ファイ, which sounds like Fai in english. Google translates it to Phi. It's like my with an F, or even Phillip J. Fry without the (P) (h)(i)(l)(l)(i)(p) (J) (.) And (r) between the (F) and (y). I spent the whole video separating these letters but what I realize now is I could have said it's like 'I' with an 'F' in front of it. What you're doing when you call Fi, Fee, is that you actually quite literally do the same thing that google translate does when you type in 'Fi' and translate it back to japanese. In english it's pronounced Fy, but is translated to フィ Fi, which sounds like Fee. I'm sure it would turn into something wild if we kept reverse translating, but that would be like pointcrow's 100× reverse translated cup cakes, and nobody wants to pronounce names from their favorite games like pointcrows cupcakes...

[@drop9502]

Great video nonetheless.

[@angeldude101]

It's a reference to the Greek letter Φ, whose name is usually spelt "phi" in the Latin alphabet. In English, it's often pronounced as /faj/ due to English vowels being English vowels, while in modern Greek, it's instead pronounced as /fi/, which, since it's the country the letter came from, some consider to be the "correct" pronunciation. (Amusingly, it seems the ancient Greek pronunciation was completely different from both.) In English, in a game without voice acting, it is pretty much equally valid to pronounce "Fi" as either /faj/ or /fɪj/. It is interesting that the Japanese script would choose to transliterate the English version. Since the game is Japanese and her name in Japanese doesn't have the ambiguities of English spelling, it would suggest that /faj/ would be the most correct way to say it in English, though I also can't really fault someone who played with English text for not knowing that.

[@drop9502]

@@angeldude101 you're the man.

[@Bigtim-ww9ul]

What if Hylia reincarnates to start each royal family?

[@DarkAngelBluejay]

A couple points: - BOTW and TOTK may in fact take place FAR in the distant future. So the lore of Skyward Sword may not actually matter. - Sonia and Zelda may indeed share a bloodline. That does not make her her direct maternal relation (great-grandmother times however many) Sonia may have siblings we never see or hear about. So Sonia may be her great great whatever Aunt. - We do not know exactly how LONG Zelda was in the past of TOTK. We see a few memories, but they may have played out over the span or a year or more. - Sonia and Rauru may indeed have had a child, one that could have been an adult by the time Zelda appeared, and been outside of Hyrule when Ganondorf attacked. They were the first King and Queen, but the Zonai also had departed at this point. Perhaps their heir was with the other Zonai. And only returned afterwards having heard of his parents death. Who knows how long lived a Zonai is naturally. We know Hylians can have extremely long lifespans, so if a Zonai, a creature viewed as a God by Hylians lived for a few thousand years, The ancient Hero (Sonia and Rauru's child) May have returned long after their death, as a matured Zonai, and taken up the mantle of the hero. May even have helped form the Shiekah. Just a few rambling ideas.

[@amandaslough125]

BotW directly references SS though. Hylia only exists because of it. And Fi makes a cameo. BotW was specifically designee to be in the far distant future but still connect. TotK though can't seem to decide on what canon is following.