Howa Oryx 6.5 Grendel: Final Chapter

[@HondoTrailside]

Thanks for putting me off buying the Howa Grendel in MDT. It isn't because the review was harsh, it just really made me think this thing is not a fit, and all the F-class styling would not make up for it. My first CF, a Sako, did 5 shot groups in the 80s, every group recorded, including the ones the wind blew out to 1.25. Finally found the load, bedded the action. Wooden stock, and it shot lights out. I had Jones and Wilson dies, neck turned brass, etc... But it was not difficult to get there. 8 power fixed Leupold. I don't know if I could have got there off my bipod. Thanks for shooting 5 shot groups.

[@caseysmith8831]

Thank you for spending your money on ammo and sharing these results with us.

[@KitBadger]

Glad to share the information Casey, thanks for watching.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

I think you got a lemon. Every howa I have shot was sub moa out the box with factory loads. My howa oryx in 6mm creedmoor literally is the tightest grouping gun I have ever owned.

[@KitBadger]

It is possible...

[@dperk1757]

I think you did too.. To be honest if it doesn’t shoot sub moa out of the box you should take it back as Howa guarantee sub moa with premium ammo.

[@jasonscott1502]

Same. Howa1500 in .308 I'm not a comp shooter by any means but it shoots sub moa with a vortex 3-9x40 first 10 rounds.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

@@jasonscott1502 good enough

[@derricktomes6103]

Mine was a complete lemon, shotgun pattern!

[@znutar]

I got a Howa in .308 in a chassis a while back. Slavishly followed the break in procedure (which I have never done for any other gun I own). After that tedious procedure I went and tried a few types of ammo and got inconsistent results (sometimes sub, sometimes not). Contact Legacy/Howa and proceed to have a long discussion with them as well as their gunsmith (involving me talking to him, going to the range to try stuff, call back, rinse repeat). After a lot of back and forth at that point we decide I should send the barreled action in (on my dime) for them to try. Well after MONTHS they finally get back to me and guess what...they can't get sub-MOA either so its time for me to get a new barreled action. After another couple of MONTHS I get the new barreled action back. It is back in it's chassis and has yet to be touched. In the months that they took I got a Ruger Amerian Predator 6.5 CM and threw it in the Oryx (works awesome and 1/2 MOA most days with my handloads) AND a Badrock South Fork from Defiance also in 6.5 CM (took them less time to BUILD my entire rifle and ship it too me than Legacy/Howa took to even test my rifle and Kevin Peterson at Defiance builds an awesome rifle) that is sub-MOA with cheap Hornady American Gunner ammo. Long story long, I have not idea if I'm ever going to get around to breaking in the new Howa barreled action.

[@KitBadger]

Break In = Waste of Consumers Time

[@znutar]

@@KitBadger Yup it sure is. My Badrock was immediately sub-MOA first time I shot it. Of course the builder shot it first and I do not know what ammo or distance he shot but it was just one hole...lol

[@znutar]

@Tony chatwin I got my 6.5 Creedmoor back some time ago but have not taken it out yet to test...I'm that paranoid...lol. I think I will likely ignore the tedious break in process and just shoot the stupid thing and see if it groups decently. If not I will just sell it and move on.

[@znutar]

@Tony chatwin agreed...I have never done any sort of break in on any of my other rifles and at least for my bolt guns they all comfortably shoot sub-MOA.

[@Alan.livingston]

Howa are inexpensive entry level rifles. I have a few and always found them to be choosey with ammo. There is normally one or two types of factory ammo that will shoot sub but for the most part it’s more 1.5moa territory. I keep mine because I handload so the I can get it in it’s sweet spot and get really nice groups out of what’s really budget gear.

[@vitalshok2238]

That's my exact thoughts. If a company gaurentee's 1"@100 yards or better then it better damn well shoot that out of the box. I have a barrel from ballistic advantage and they did exactly that and as far as I'm concerned that promise was not delivered. They said gaurentee will shoot a 5 shot moa manual loading single rounds or a 3 shot moa with an autoloader. After shooting 6 different types of premium hunting ammo I couldn't get anything better than 1.5 inch at 100 yards and it was very erratic. 2 shots touching and 3 more off to the left or right. I emailed them and they told me their MOA gaurentee only applies to match grade ammo only. The barrel I purchased was the premium black spr 18 inch and gaurentee 1" or better at 100 yards, yet the only way you can get an 1" or better is with match grade. During my research in which was stated by one of BA's employees, great upgrade for your next hunting rifle. I don't know about anyone else but I don't hunt with match ammo. Never have and never will.

[@tar6805]

I bought a Tikka CTR .223 and my mate bought the Howa mini 223 for half the price. After 5-600 rounds he just stopped bringing it to the range he was so frustrated. While my Tikka will put 5 in a dime @ 100 yds. from first load. I guess you get what you pay for but he spent a bunch on ammo and it still doesn't shoot better than 2 inch groups while my CTR just keeps tapping the same hole. Here in Canada for the price of the Howa Oryx you can get any Tikka T3X or Sauer 100 Pantera or Fieldshoot in 6.5 Creed with a fully adjustable stock , Bull or Fluted Med Heavy threaded barrel and that amazing Sauer finish and bolt.

[@hewlett260]

Have had 2 Howa rifles. Something I learned on both, handloading ammo for them keeps them in their moa guarantee, but the barrels from the factory are extremely finicky and tend to have consistency issues with the same loads and similar conditions. Solution was adding a Bartlein barrel from a good smith. Now they shoot great.

[@KitBadger]

That doesn't speak well for those guns... Especially when a Ruger or Savage will shoot sub MOA out of the box. :)

[@Mountain-Man27]

@@KitBadger mine shoots sub moa with every decently heavy load I throw through it… weird

[@dennismassey2128]

Thanks for the research. I was contemplating a Howa Grendel but now I don’t know. I have a Howa 6 Creedmoor that I rebarreled and it shoots lights out with reloads. The only thing I can think of is make sure you have about 65 inch pounds of torque on the action bolts. If I do get the Howa guess I will lap the barrel first. Thanks again!!

[@catherinefarr3140]

G'day from Australia mate. I have the exact same setup but with a Infiray TL35 up top. I only hand load and have found that my Howa will consistently shoot sub MOA with every projectile from 90gr Speer TNTs to 131 gr Sellier and Bellot SPs. It is the easiest rifle I have reloaded for so far. Powder Node first, then bullet seating depth and it is good to go. I am seriously contemplating buying a light sporter version for a walk-around scrub/timber pig gun, it is just ridiculously accurate and easy to use.

[@DimaProk]

I put together AR15 upper in 6.5 Grendel just so I can reload for my friend. The barrel I picked I knew had mixed reviews, it was 18" AR-STONER inhouse brand from midwayusa, it was $128 on sale. The barrel arrived and the muzzle threads were a bit buggered up, you could see metal chip from gas port that I pushed out with cleaning rod. There was some wobble when I chucked it in the lathe. I didn't have a lot of expectations, but it in matching AR-STONER upper/handguard and a nice nickel boron coated BCG. About $300 spent. Handloaded using 140gr bullets that were pulled from the live ammo and sold because they didn't pass QC. Bullets length ranged from 1.300" to 1.350", I sorted for testing using Hornady comparator to get as close as I can ogive to base measurement. Loaded with Shooter's World Match Rifle powder; brass is 1x fired Hornady. Shooting at 50 yards, I get 3 sub-moa groups (one group was 1/2 MOA) and one 1 MOA group. Keep in mind I was shooting different powder charges too as trying to see what groups. Also the 1 MOA group was a different powder. I am thinking of getting Howa mini bolt action too.

[@kcb3887]

I agree with your position on barrel break in. I'm learning the hard way that I'm better off saving time, ammo and barrel life by buying a quality barrel from the get go. I've wasted a lot of money trying to get less expensive (not cheap) barrels to shoot. In the end they usually winding up grouping well but I could've saved all that time and aggravation by going with the better barrel from the start. That being said, I think the 6.5G is a finicky cartridge. I've seen great results with it but mostly I see experiences like yours. I have an AR in 6.5 that I built with all the good stuff and I had a heck of a time getting it to shoot. A few hundred rounds later it's pretty good but it took hand loading to get me where I thought it should've been from the beginning. Anyway, this is the first video of yours I've seen and I like your style. I'll be checking out more of them as time allows. Keep 'em coming.

[@KitBadger]

Right on man, thank you for sharing and watching!

[@mebyard1]

Very interesting series. In my situation, living on my SS, I don’t want regret purchases. Can’t afford them!!! So reviews like this are very much appreciated. As for long guns, so far I’ve only invested in a Savage MSR. I’ve not been disappointed. I would love to get into 6.5 caliber some day, but will likely go with Creedmore. Thanks Ivan. Love your videos and style. Best wishes.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, from what I've seen, you can't go wrong with a Savage. :)

[@KitBadger]

@timmybmn easier to stick with 6.5CM, super accepted and supported by manufacturers.

[@KitBadger]

@timmybmn hahaha, true story.... :)

[@damianmoskos2299]

Have howa oryx .223 heavy great little set up really like it it shot well from the start. Always try different ammo and use what shots best then stick with that and work from there regards damo

[@wessfulton644]

Thanks for the series. You're correct, if Howa or any other manufacturer is going to claim or guarantee a sub moa shooting rifle they ought to have all the caveats there with it. And if the barrel needs some special break-in, that should be explained as well. Again thanks for showing us what one can typically expect when purchasing this rifle.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, I think they can / should do better when they put forth a guarantee. Thanks for watching Wess.

[@Swampytheroot]

I enjoy your reviews. Considering a Howa 6.5G since it seems to be the only bolt action in the caliber I don't already have. I have a CZ527 26.5" Varmint rifle that's a laserbeam with good handloads; 1.2MOA (best case) with Wolf 100gr steel case at 500yds. I love the cartridge for its soft shooting and honest-to-God power in comparison. Thank you for your review!

[@rickwiebe2919]

I have the exact gun and chassis. 6.5 Grendel paired up with the oryx chassis. Ordered a few months ago never did a barrel break-in and I’ve been shooting sub moa consistently with 123 grain hornady black.

[@PTS68874]

Barrel break in is critical

[@Turtl-ss4lj]

I have a howa in creedmoor, and man, you’re not lying... That thing is heavy. That being said, I love it. I opted to keep my Grendel in the ar-15 platform. Keeps the weight down, and works like a charm. Granted, it’s not going to be as accurate as a bolt, but it’s still sub-moa, which is hard to do with “America’s rifle” haha

[@KitBadger]

I've heard great stuff from that cartridge in AR platforms, glad it is working for you.

[@nospam3409]

Sub MOA should be out of the box period. +4" on the first day, and the rifle goes back period. My Grendel upper will shoot sub MOA with most factory ammo, and 1/4-1/2 MOA with hand loads. Plus it was less than $600 to my door.

[@KitBadger]

Agreed.

[@zackdn97]

Have a 6.5 grendel heavy barrel mini action that was chopped to 16”, re-crowned, and re-threaded by JTAC Industries before I actually received it. Shot my first 3 shot group with it today and it was 0.61 MOA w/ hornady 123gr American Gunner (the bulk bthp pack). I did the recommended 10-shot barrel break-in right before shooting that 3-shot group. This video made me feel lucky, but glad you’re honest.

[@KitBadger]

That is awesome Zack! Congrats on that little gun.

[@TheEDCTribe]

Was that one of the jtac elf owl builds? I’ve been looking into buying one, it looks like a really interesting gun

[@zackdn97]

ItsChase ya man, it freaking rocks. No regrets and they’re a bunch of great guys

[@TheEDCTribe]

Zack N shoooooot. I might scoop one sometime soon, looks like a super fun range gun and could probably be a decent hunting rifle

[@SKPhoto816]

I built a Grendel pistol recently that actually is sub MOA. Was thinking about getting this set up once I had more exposure to the cartridge. Glad I watched these videos first. Appreciate your time and effort, definitely saved me from regretting a purchase

[@KitBadger]

I've heard great things from people building Grendel pistols, I'm going to have to try one.

[@SKPhoto816]

Kit Badger Kit Badger highly recommend it. I purchased a 12” group buy barrel and bolt from 65grendel.com the barrel was made by Green Mountain. Once Swampfox Optics releases their 2-12 FFP scope I’m going to add that. Currently it has an old 3-9 optic and a Larue MBT-2S trigger, it is phenomenally accurate for what it is

[@KitBadger]

@@SKPhoto816 sounds like an awesome set up!

[@SKPhoto816]

Kit Badger it was my first build so I went with the best bang-for-buck options I could find. Funny part is that I used a basic PSA lower and a no name upper. I have now convinced myself that cheap upper and lower receivers really don’t matter (for my uses) as long as I verify that they are in spec before building them out.

[@KitBadger]

@@SKPhoto816 Yep, barrel and trigger are much bigger factors.

[@bobbywilliams2071]

Nice gun, I have the same one in .300 blkout and it’s groups amazing. I also built one in 6.5 with mdt lss xl gen 2 chassis and it’s a tack driver. Howa makes an awesome rifle

[@KitBadger]

Nice, glad those have worked out for you. I was off to a rocky start with this one. :)

[@boqsean3500]

i have the 6.5 in chassis and after the break in i was shooting .256-.444 and now i am a consistent .50" with hand loads and hit 500 yards with ease. 120 rounds down. I put the vg6 epsilon and it feels like a .22:) Cannot beat it for under 1000$ Riton 5x25, 140gr eld, h4350.

[@KitBadger]

Nice, good shooting.

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

Man all your points about barrel break in makes a lot of sense to me. With that being said I’m glad I haven’t shot my newest build. It’s a Krieger m110 profiled with matching bolt. That barrel is not cheap by any means. I hope all works out with this build it took a looooong time to save up for that barrel. And all the components to finish the build

[@KitBadger]

Right on man, let me know how that build turns out, it sounds awesome.

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

Kit Badger it turned out dope as heck just want to wait to run it. Till I get a single stage reloading press. I built it as a first test and development rifle for reloading.

[@KitBadger]

@@Johnny-jr2lq right on!

[@johnnysaechao6218]

Everyone I know who has a Howa regrets buying it.. a friend had to rebarrel it to a Mc Gowan barrel and it’s a shooter now. Thanks for the review sir!

[@KitBadger]

Damn, ouch.

[@Garrick1983]

Take a camera with you next time and prove it.

[@smith_xiv476]

I have 2 howas both shoot sub moa at 100... .204 and the 6.5 creedmoor... shoot the same as my 2 savage.... all 4 can out shoot me

[@TexanUSMC8089]

I have two 6.5 Grendel AR15 rifles. They shoot 1/2-3/4 inch groups over and over. I normally shoot 123 SST bullets. I bought a Howa bolt action in 6.5 Grendel when they first came out. I was disappointed. It shot about 2 MOA. I took the nikko scope off. It was junk. I lapped the barrel and chamber. Torqued it to spec in the howa stock. Then installed a Tract scope. It now shoots MOA. I really expected it to shoot better than the AR's, but it doesn't. It does make a great hunting rifle for young people though. My friends 7 year old son got his first deer with it. It's a very handy small rifle, but it's not a long range accurate shooter. Maybe the Ruger in 6.5 Grendel will be better.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, not what I was expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ruger does better.

[@carlovelasco1825]

Picked up a 223 version for $250 + an outrageous $35 dollar shipping fee. Can't wait to get it.

[@KitBadger]

Nice, let me know how it is.

[@F53802]

The stock oops I meant "chassis " wasn't the problem here. The issue was with the barrelled action, I have a Howa 1500 in 223 mounted on a GRS stock and had the same problem as you. It took about 50 rounds after the barrel break in to finally get .75 MOA. After some load development I now have it down to .5 MOA.

[@KitBadger]

All you had to do was finish their work on that barrel... :)

[@F53802]

@@KitBadger About 100 rounds of work, and the cleaning as well 😡

[@OC_Lofton]

I bought two short action Howa 1500s (24" #6 Contoured (.308) HCR/ 22" #2 Contoured 6.5CM Lighting w/ "Hogue-Like" Pillar bedded stock) and a 20" #6 Contoured Mini-Action in 6.5 Grendel in a pillar bedded Hogue stock. They're non-threaded. They all shoot at or near 1 MOA after the break in process with Winchester Deer Season XP for the (.308 & 6.5CM); Hornady 123gr SST & PPU 120gr HPBT for the 6.5 Grendel. I do regret buying Howa's Mini-Action in 6.5 Grendel due to the unreliable LSI magazine, the cost of LSI 5-rd magazine and the lack of aftermarket magazines for Howa Mini-Actions. If Howa had made the 6.5 Grendel in a short action one could likely use MDT'S 6BR magazines. The most cost effective method a getting a 6.5 Grendel bolt action chassis with reliable affordable magazines is to buy a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Grendel which takes AR-Styled magazines and put the barreled action in an MDT LSS-XL Gen2 AR chassis with an ABA Mod-X Urban Sniper stock or a Luth-AR MBA-3 stock and still pay less than the ORYX Rifle with far less frustrations.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, magazine support can be a hassle depending on the platform and caliber...

[@OC_Lofton]

@@KitBadger I agree with you that the barrel break in process shouldn't be a requirement in order to achieve 1 MOA. I use the break in process to get a rough zero.

[@Bones6987]

J&B bore compound is what I use on ALL new rifle barrels I know you shouldn’t have to but humans have bad days at work and they have hangovers on Monday morning and a hot date on Friday night So I can understand your frustration and can understand the machinist having a bad day

[@jclark9563]

Came here for the review. Heard Lagwagon and knew I was in the right place.

[@charliebelle6693]

I've broken in over a dozen rifles and never had one even close to your original groups but my disclaimer is never a Howa. Tikka, Browning, Savage, Remington and Ruger plus a couple custom barrels. My friend does have a Browning in the 25 WSSM that would put 2 shots next to each other and throw the third an inch and a half to two inches away. The gun has a funky spot right near the end of the barrel. It has never gotten any better. The gun would have went back IMO.

[@smausetrap]

I don't know any manufacturer under $4k rifle that guarantees Sub MOA without a break in period to be fair...The action by itself can be had for $360 shipped, hard to complain.

[@KitBadger]

Barrel Break In = Customers Finishing the Manufacturers Job. You can't really do that these days, when you can buy Savage and Rugers that will shoot sub MOA out of the box.

[@smausetrap]

@@KitBadger I know it's not the exact same, but I have a .308 howa heavy 20" in stock tupperware. I didn't break it in and it shoots sub moa with seirra gold and moa with hornady white tail. Anecdotal evidence with a single rifle...grain of salt. I was really surprised with the janky groups you were getting since I know you can shoot. I'd chalk it up that you probably got a dud. I'd take a howa over those others anyday even if I had to "break in" the barrel. Thanks for spending the time and money on the demo, we appreciate it! People sleep on how long you can spend out at the range to really dial stuff in.

[@KitBadger]

@@smausetrap ya, it may have just been a bad one. Thank you for watching Ryan.

[@tar6805]

Thank you for the no nonsense review and sorry about that loaner Howa. Modern firearms shouldn't need a break in IMHO.

[@defender119gonow5]

I definitely been lucky with my Howa s sub MOA with wolf ammo 30-06,7.62X39, and 308

[@darrylryder8114]

Thank you for your honesty! I was looking at these but you changed my mind

[@KitBadger]

Sample size of one, but I wasn’t impressed.

[@bradchenoweth7584]

Barrel break ins are a funny thing and there are multiple schools of thought on how you should do it. Glad to see you got it shooting well.

[@KitBadger]

I think they are BS with a Sub MOA guarantee... :)

[@bradchenoweth7584]

@@KitBadger Most of my understanding on the subject of barrel break ins in regards to accuracy is from Rex's Sniper 101 series, forums, and personal experience. From my understanding there is always going to be some degree of break in and how you break it in will matter in regards to how the rifle is shot and maintained. Its why I don't do the bench rest style break in processes. Your barrel will need a certain amount of copper to gain a sort of copper equilibrium and the way I break mine in requires less maintenance to maintain accuracy. I do not remove copper fouling from my barrel when I clean. I just knock carbon out. My 7mm Rem Mag, after break in, will shoot 3/8" at 100 yards when I do my part. Some barrels need less time, some more from what I understand, how its broken in vs how you shoot and maintain the rifle can be important as well. I get you though. Break ins suck.

[@KitBadger]

@@bradchenoweth7584 yes barrels can tighten up, but the idea of a break in is BS when Savage and Ruger can put out sub MOA guns out of the box. Barrel Break In = Unfinished Barrel in my opinion.

[@bradchenoweth7584]

@@KitBadger I'd be curious to see what they're doing to their barrels in general. Those initial groups were freaking huge for what the gun is. I do doubt that they put as much care into their barrels as some nicer barrel manufacturers. I wonder if they're not as finely lapped or something.

[@theckerman]

I picked up the Oryx chassis for my Tikka T1X .22 rimfire and love it. Granted I use the rifle primarily for benchrest shooting and a range toy. I agree that it is very heavy and would not be ideal to have to pack around.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, that chassis is super rigid, definitely lends itself to that kind of shooting.

[@johnnybravo1022]

I took my Ruger 10/22 target with bull barrel and slapped it into a 99.00 Archangel stock, had to do some minor fitting it's a tight fit. Results using Wolf Match 22LR is it will put all rounds through a quarter at 50 yards. Got to say Wolf makes some awesome 22LR match ammo, very consistent for 22LR.

[@Jerry-Parker]

$ 1,050.oo I'll pass. Excellent review and thanks for sharing !

[@KitBadger]

No problem, thanks for watching Jerry.

[@joelstrain6664]

Thanks for the honest review, nutinfancy doesn't break in guns before talking about how much they suck. You probably just got a bad rifle, however if they have a sub-moa guaranty they should catch the "bad apples" before they leave the factory.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, I'm not a fan of putting the responsibility of finishing a barrel when you have a sub MOA guarantee...

[@scottthorning3963]

That's a sweet setup, howa makes great rifles

[@johnnybravo1022]

Good Vid, you made up my mind not to go with this rifle. Kind of funny, I built a 6.5 Grendel from parts from PSA. 18 inch stainless barrel, Mlok 15 inch rail, Standard PSA lower, I did replace the trigger with a Rise Armament RA-140 which is an awesome single stage trigger with a nice 3.5lb break. Got it from Snake River Armory with anti walk pins for 105.00 shipped!! Using an SWFA fixed 10X42 Super Sniper in a Burris Pepr mount. After getting a zero at 100 yards it shot .086 MOA using Hornady Black 123 GR. I also put a Hera CRS fixed stock on the rifle. So all in all I am into the build for around 800.00. Using ASC 25 round Grendel magazines. I already had the scope in my safe, it came off an M1A I had sold. If I was to go with a bolt gun I would probably buy the Ruger American and slap it in a MDT chassis. That way I could use my ASC mags as the Ruger will take AR mags. Right now the Palmetto Grendel build works like a champ

[@KitBadger]

Nice groups!

[@bigtrev761]

🇦🇺😎👍My Howa 7.62x39 with the standard stock does 30 mm group @ 100 yards with PPU 123 grain sp using a 4-12x40 scope. Perhaps hand loads would improve it. Both my 223s do sub moa but my 243 varmint is 38/50 mm @ 100 yards with a big scope and Winchester ammunition. Personally I think all of my Howa barrels are picky unlike my Tikka… great video🏁

[@apisdude]

I have the mini 1500 action in 300 blackout. mounted in the MDT LSS chassis. this is easily a MOA to sub MOA gun. I use a Jaeger can on it. very nice gun and very happy with it

[@kevingeary1472]

I totally agree if it says 1moa it should be 1moa or less from round 1. Your experience speaks to poor manufacturing and finishing. I have heard that they make a good platform for a how-age build. So factor in another $400 for a hand lapped barrel and you have a great budget long range gun. I have personally had better luck with savage and have gotten EXCELLENT results with remage builds

[@KitBadger]

Yep, you crate an expectation.

[@andyprairiedog]

Very interesting series. Like the CZ rifle you had a series on. I've also heard stories from both ends of the spectrum. Thank you for opening your wallet for that last box of ammunition.

[@KitBadger]

Right on, thanks for watching Andy. I'm bringing the CZ back too. :)

[@fredeb67]

There are a few manufacturers claiming to have sub MOA guns that aren't.

[@gerardladalardo1378]

One thing I always try to do is get another shooter (better shooter) and see what their groups look like. At least if you have a great shooter behind the rifle and groups aren't satisfactory, you can most likely know it's the rifle.

[@KitBadger]

That’s good to do when you can.

[@gerardladalardo1378]

@@KitBadger I know its not always possible. But you can always ask someone at the range and 99% of the time they are happy to oblige just to shoot like 2 5 round groups for you......but you gotta ask!! It beats the hell outta just keep shooting and wasting rounds!

[@davidgreenapple9397]

Interesting point of view on 'break in'. Christensen (at $2200) recommends a very specific, detailed BIP too. My Ridgeline shoots 0.17 MOA at 100 yards and 0.4 MOA at 350 yards (wind). It would be interesting to see if some of the super-priced ($4,500+) custom rifles shoot at their best with no break-in at all.

[@terrycoxusa]

I have a Howa mini action .223 on a Boyds varminter stock, and it will shoot sub moa all day long, with good ammo.

[@rodjerger3928]

I bought a Howa Mini in Grendel. I got the action only because at the time, there were no Hogue stocked rifles. I bought a Boyd's laminated stock. I had a pro gunsmith bed it. My plan for a reasonably cheap Grendel vanished. The first barreled action was a 3-4 MOA gun. About 4 months after I sent it in, and numerous phone calls, Howa replaced the action. I will say the second barreled action shoots really good, most of the time. It is finicky. But the thing that drives me absolutely nuts is the stupid mag release. I lost track of how many imes the mag has fallen out of the gun! I'm considering buying the chassis simply because they put a shroud around that stupid mag release. Someone, do me a favor and buy this thing from me, before I throw even more money at it. It does shoot good, tho.

[@KitBadger]

I feel your pain Rod, guns like that are a drag...

[@chadmcswain5389]

I've shot numerous Howa's in 6.5 Grendel and honestly both my Ruger Ranch Grendel and Ruger Predator Grendel spank the Howa model's all day long. I hear people bragging about how accurate their Howa is, but I just didn't find that to ever be the case. All barrels should be broke in somewhat, but not to the degree your having to do in this video. My Ruger Predator 6.5 litterly cut the same hole with factory ELD-Ms straight out of the box. Even the little short barrel Ranch had most ELD-Ms almost touching out of the box. Sorry you went through all that and I'd definitely tell Howa to stick it where the 🌞 don't shine👍

[@Strateegee24]

Lagwagon! I really enjoy the music in your videos.

[@KitBadger]

Right on, thanks.

[@juancolon123]

The craziest barrel break in procedure that I have done is for my PTR91. Did I follow it? Ain’t nobody got time for that 🤨

[@KitBadger]

My understanding is those guns still don't shoot very well. :)

[@juancolon123]

Kit Badger I definitely would not call it a sub-moa rifle. At a hundred yards I can get 1-2 inch groups but normally it’s more like 2-3 inch groups at a hundred yards.

[@KitBadger]

@@juancolon123 that is decent for that gun I think.

[@haroldellis9721]

Never punt on the 3 yard line.

[@russdennis7026]

Great video! Truth be told.

[@KitBadger]

Thanks Russ!

[@projekt127films5]

Hey great video but if you want to get better than .5 MOA groups and go for quarter moa or better you need to reload those fire formed factory’s brass with some match projectiles. Invest in an overall length gauge from Hornady to use with the comparator inserts for bullet seating depth and headspace.

[@projekt127films5]

Howa is capable of much better than 0.5 moa.

[@KitBadger]

Nah, I don't have the time to get into reloading. I'd settle for sub MOA like the tag claims... :)

[@projekt127films5]

Kit Badger I know it seems time-consuming but that’s usually just the learning curve, once you get it down, you can pump out 30-40 bullets in about an hour or so for a nice six or 7 strings 5 shot groups.

[@juanthelawnmowerthief1641]

Ruger American for 1/3 the cost and a better shooter out the box.

[@znutar]

Got to agree...my American Predator (that I got while waiting for the Howa to come back) was sub-MOA out of the box. Also with some simple lapping compound and about a hundred dry chamberings, the action is now silky as well

[@Ocdoutdoors]

I also agree.. watch my first shot video and you'll see how well the Ruger shoots with factory and hand loads.

[@Bones6987]

I’ve never ever got that Federal Gold Medal Berger to group at ALL!!!!!!

[@mattg9971]

This was an interesting series for sure. Good job following through, but I still think you let them off easy. Those first few groups were out of control. Edit: that whole 1 QD cup on the stock and no other attachment points on the rest of the rifle blows my mind.

[@KitBadger]

Ya, I still don't understand the fact there is no front QD sockets...

[@craignmz5264]

Kit Badger the sling attachment is an Oryx issue not a Howa issue. As you know chassis are expensive the Oryx on the other hand is very reasonable, something had to be cut to produce at a reasonable price. The Howa 1500 with an Oryx chassis is a great combo especially if you hand load. The 3rd group with my 6.5 Creedmore and a 140 gr Speer Hot Core measured in at .75 moa. Group 6 was .33 until round 5 stretched it out to .88. Not too bad for an out of the box set up. I am very happy with this set up. Great video and I like the honest reviews.

[@Garrick1983]

Great review and video. A lot of comments about everybody having all these sub moa rifles and then I check their KZbin and have zero content or no videos of said shots.Key board snipers I guess.

[@KitBadger]

Thanks Sean, I appreciate that.

[@Ocdoutdoors]

See my videos with my Ruger grendel.

[@skylineenduro]

Just got my barreled action 6.5 grendel. Dropped it into a bell and Carlson. Put dip bottom metal on too. Now at 80 rounds through it it's still shoots like trash. About 1.5" at 100 yards. So frustrating. Absolutely the worst out of box accuracy I have encountered. So frustrated. First 40 rounds were 3-4" at 100 yards.

[@Bishopx360]

Glad everything finally worked out man! Ivan I would seriously get with Q about making a mini fix in 6.5 grendel at 16" barrel length. That would just be such a stellar gun with how much of a sweet spot 16" is for Grendel. Not only that but the barrel life that Grendel has would just make that gun last forever! If you wanted a hiking gun that just might be it.

[@KitBadger]

They are going to offer Grendel barrels, or at least the extensions so other barrel makers can do them for the MiniFix. :)

[@apisdude]

I thought the scenery looked familiar. I shoot at Rattlesnake Mountain Range, not terribly far from there

[@mattlyons8180]

I have done alot of howa rifles.... evey one I have done needs at least 100 round before the group closes. Usually after 100 rounds i am always sub 1 moa

[@KitBadger]

That’s a lot of ammo and time for a 1 MOA “guarantee”. :)

[@CoyoteCanyon72]

My Howa 204 Ruger shoots lights out.

[@SUPRMN52]

I have the same exact rifle I just picked up and I am having the same results. However none of the ammo i have used will shoot under 3" at 100yds. Not to impressed and kind of in a tough spot since I need to decide between shooting more and seeing if it gets better or sending it back to Howa.

[@KitBadger]

I'd ask for a shipping label and send that thing back.

[@doughboi007]

Are these sold as a complete set? Or do i need to buy barrel and chassis separate?

[@joelriggs9153]

I didn't buy mine as a combo, as i already had my mini action in 222 Remington from a couple of years before the chassis came out. I bought the chassis when it first came out and put it on and it's spooky accurate for a factory action.

[@KitBadger]

Nice Joel, I'm glad it has worked out well for you. That chassis is super rigid.

[@jeffreypickartz9452]

Hey brother, I’m no precision shooter my no means. I spent 14 years in SOF and used a lot of weapon types during my time on an ODA. I own a JTAC 308 howa 1500 Screech Owl and did a 20 round break in. During that break in it wasn’t sub moa, but right after it was and I was taught the 5 round rule. My buddy has a 308 Q fix which I say you review which I personally didn’t like. Have you shot Unitah Precision bolt action AR platform? Just wondering what you thing about the 6mm ARC? I know PRS shooters know more than SOF guys they shoot all the time we just had good training for combat totally different.

[@jasonstratton4343]

mine shoots sub MOA all day with my handloads...factory ammo is not the way to go. Lapua brass, fed 205m primer, Hornady 123 ELD..with 8208 XBR,..gun is amazing at 200 yd. I broke it in by shooting 3 rounds, cleaning, 4 times...then I shoot it and clean the bore around 70 rounds.

[@KitBadger]

That is awesome, but unacceptable for a factory rifle that claims Sub MOA. :)

[@martinsalko1]

What a sound

[@dynasty4851]

Mrgunsandgear sent me. He says you have interesting content.

[@KitBadger]

Right on, take a look around. Let me know what you think.

[@leckmich8850]

I have it in 308 whit 26 inch barrel and it works fine 😉

[@KitBadger]

Nice, I’ve heard some people have had great success with them.

[@rogerurby]

I just couldn't spend the coin on a gun that performs like this. My savage 11 223 out of box puts out 3 shots sub MOA all day long and I mean all day long. A chassis rifle that can barely break MOA and still isn't consistent is just a deal breaker. Maybe this rifle would be a perfect donor for a 6mm ARC? Put a premium 6mm barrel on there and it should shoot lights out...

[@KitBadger]

Ya, I was underwhelmed.

[@SpudOutdoors]

All my howa’s Grendel’s have shot sub half MOA down to quarter MOA. Sample size of 3.

[@chadmcswain5389]

I've owned 3 in Grendel and sold them all. My Ruger American Predator and even my little ranch shot circles around them. My buddy took his Howa mini out a few weeks ago and I litterly shot smiley faces around his groups with my predator to prove a point. This was done with factory ELD-Ms also. I love the look and feel of the Howa's, even love the fast, quick and super short action.....but.....I've shot a couple dozen or more in both 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel and none would shoot with the Rugers that I've tried. Not with factory ELD-Ms anyway in the Grendel or even Federal Fusion. I did shoot a couple in x39s that shot wolf surplus as good as the ruger, but never better.

[@SpudOutdoors]

@@chadmcswain5389 what stock did you have on your howa’s?

[@chadmcswain5389]

Just the factory stocks that came with them. I did clean them up a little so they wouldn't touch

[@SpudOutdoors]

@@chadmcswain5389 yeah still no good. I run mine in chassis or carbon.

[@kluper1157]

126 Grain Hornady Black sub MOA 100 yards😛

[@dgvette1]

Would you buy another one? I have one ordered, I dont have time to break in and tune it up?

[@jameskesler1930]

How many $$ did it take you to get it to perform? Half the price of the gun?

[@flighttherapybullisticfpv133]

I have my own experiences with Howa and ive learned similar lessons. Im curious how you like the chassis by itself though? Ive been thinking of dropping my tikka in one

[@KitBadger]

As far as the chassis goes, it is super rigid and relatively heavy. For most peoples shooting, it would probably serve them well. I wouldn't want to hike with it though. :)

[@flighttherapybullisticfpv133]

@@KitBadger Haha the rifle is a Varmint Stainless in 300 win mag... its not a rifle I hike with anyways lol If it gets used for hunting it sits in the gun boot on the quad in case I get a chance at a bison when im moose hunting.. Thanks for the info man, much appreciated

[@KitBadger]

@@flighttherapybullisticfpv133 haha, then it will probably serve you well. :)

[@boermetroer1714]

Strange. My Howa 6.5 Grendel can't shoot larger than 1MOA even if I tried. My 204 on the other hand was a back breaking exercise in finding the right load though. I'm running 123gr SST and 129gr Accubonds with CFE223 and the POI is nearly identical.

[@KitBadger]

Yep, not stoked on it...

[@TheJeep5050]

Any trigger problems ?

[@gaelewis6623]

What bipod your using I have same gun?

[@mattlyons8180]

I get the feeling you spent time in the Corps?

[@KitBadger]

Yes. Float Tapes, over on my site.

[@arkoutarkout3654]

Run a brass brush down it with a drill lol I wonder what it would do

[@stevensrspcplusmc]

What it tells me, I’m not getting a howa

[@justaregularguy3827]

Those things benefit heavily from a good cleaning dude

[@KitBadger]

Possibly, but the performance out of the box was inexcusable.

[@nickmartinez2321]

Just confirming this is not sold as one unit? You had to purchase the chassis separate, correct?

[@KitBadger]

No, turnkey rifle. This one came initially with a optic installed too.

[@nickmartinez2321]

Kit Badger do you have a Link for that rifle?

[@KitBadger]

@@nickmartinez2321 not off hand, sorry.

[@LoLreality1]

Just cool about it ... why I watch

[@KitBadger]

Thanks for watching.

[@KiLLaDaTa]

I couldn't agree more, sub moa out of the box or gtfo

[@KitBadger]

#truth

[@benwright3314]

All your comments say something shouldn't be broken in, firstly there a cheap rifle... Secondly, ANY car you buy for example, that spans to every single manufacturer, has a break in procedure. You disagree with that one too? You must have got a bad one, i dont think ive ever seen one that doesn't shoot to be honest.

[@KitBadger]

This isn't a car and the brake in period for a car is not on par with finishing a barrel. Ruger can sell cheap 1 MOA guns without a guarantee, Howa raised the expectation and failed on this one.

[@michaeldoyle5001]

What ear pro are you wearing at 3:30 mark? Thinking of buying the chassis as a host for my Savage 6.5CM. I'm a bench shooter, so sounds like it should be GTG. Thanks for the review.

[@wtxoutdoors4493]

Surefire EPs

[@KitBadger]

EP4s amzn.to/2MpUGoU

[@beretta989]

Even Valkyrie rifles shoot better 🤷‍♂️

[@KitBadger]

#sickburn

[@Garrick1983]

Take a camera with you next time out shooting and prove it.

[@DFWWARPIGS]

Mags...what kind and who has them?

[@KitBadger]

They're by Howa, I mention them in the video.

[@SuperSneakySniper]

With today's technology available, it is HARD to make a bolt gun this innaccurate. If it doesnt speak poorly to Howa rifles, it speaks poorly to their quality control. Even if it's a 1 in 50 chance you get a bum rifle, those odds lose against most of the competitors. Ruger American, Tikka, Savage, Bergara, many better options.

[@Mex_the_Fox]

That´s why you buy TIKKA

[@mikethompson7436]

Yes my boat motor should come broke in along with my dirt bike and motorcycle why would I spend my time and money on oil filters and gas

[@Niobium23]

That is freaking terrible, what a turd

[@georgeshorter142]

It is NOT a "sub-MOA" rifle if it is bouncing between 1.6 and 0.9 MOA..... This rifle is trash, and every rifle that shoots 5 MOA EVER will be hopeless forever.

[@G5Hohn]

How disappointing.

[@Guide504]

I would have fcuked it off.... Not cool.

[@sgav8r]

Wow. Ridiculously shit accuracy. Return it and buy something else.