Bending & Twisting Of Tuning Pins - Piano Tuning Hammer Technique I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES

[@jonathanpope81]

Not surprised about bending wrest pins using a huge master lever with detachable heads. Feel the force. Thanks

[@dibaldgyfm9933]

thank you for this video. Shows me that I have got the right technique for setting the pins. I have been tuning mostly my own piano for 40 years now and learned a lot by our piano technician 40 years ago; the rest I learned from a book about tuning and from videos on KZbin. But sometimes you begin to doubt whether you really have all the information needed to understand the process of tuning. One tuner said "why did you call me, no need to tune". Another said "You don't know ..." and that hurt.

[@shandfan]

Listen..this profession often lies in the family!!! You simply did not need learning this,except for one thing....the SETTING of the pins.

[@SteveNaiive]

Unusual to find someone so knowledgeable and talented so willing to share his expertise with those of us looking for a good shortcut to avoid the formal training that makes this possible.

[@Jack-hy1zq]

I've learned from this video (40 year tuner) 👍

[@clwuwood]

very helpful technique! Before watching this I even thought bending might "damage" the pin. thank you so much!

[@shandfan]

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!! Just as it deals with bad,faulty,WEAK pins,causing an oversize of TORSION,which leads to loosing the right GRIP of the pin.And often due to the use of shoddy material.And just that is the main thing,the current piano branche suffers from,plus not training the professionals properly. Plucking and jerking is not the right thing to do,this betrays lacking professional knowledge,although.....not always being inevitable with the current instruments.

[@waltony1]

Well explained. All very obvious now, but not at all obvious before I watched the video. Well done and thank you.

[@adlib8096]

I play classical guitar with nylon strings and tuning is something one always has to do sometimes even in between pieces, can imagine the intricacies from tuning a piano are mindboggling. Just tuning string by string like the DIY vids on this subject is not hard but tuning it so it stays in tune for as long as possible has to be quite the challenge

[@ziggdog3153]

Very informative, explained and demonstrated very clearly. No annoying intro music and unnecessary long introduction before getting straight to the point. I wish every posting on youtube that purports to show you something in regard to "how to" would use this clip as their model of "how to". In fact I wish it was a mandatory pre-requisite for all posts. I certainly appreciate your high level of skill and presentation and also of not wasting a second of my time in doing so. I rate this video as one of the finest examples over many years of sifting and shuffling through way too many amateur "how to's". It always appears to me that most often there is a likely ratio between the quality of the posting, and the standard to which each presenter regards as a professional benchmark of their own "professional expertise."

[@shandfan]

Finally seeing a good tuninglever/hammer. The HAIL !!! The best one! After years of retirement I still have this device.Always used for concert/studio tunings.

[@howardpianoind]

Glad you like it!

[@amezcuaist]

It took a little while to absorb the importance of this video . I had the feeling the pin bending was something to avoid but now I see it`s the final stage to get really clean unisons . I bought a set of rubber wedges and a strip of felt for this but I don`t use them now. I simply pluck the strings with a plastic plectrum (home made ) to pin down which string needs raising or lowering. Always finishing downwards and now polishing off with a little bend where needed . Having lots of fun tuning by ear from the central octave. Some big learning curves happening here . Using an impct hammer to jolt the string upwards is very safe if you worry about going too far .I am managing to avoid the double bounce when tuning down.Every day gets easier . Today (3 years later ) I found the gentle way to tune the top octave. Just a very slight tug on the lever brings it down into tune.

[@howardpianoind]

Hi John,Congrats on your progress with learning to tune. It is important though to play the keys firmly when tuning to make sure you stabilize the string tension. Just plucking the string won’t accomplish this. This is also part of achieving a stable tuning.

[@themcool8824]

Thanks for this. The method I've evolved over the years is to "jerk it up", actually turning the pin as you say here, and then "push it down", more of a bending action, while pounding the string to release all the bearing points. And I will say that the tunings are very stable - just not as fast as I'd like!

[@jimmilne19]

Quite clear instruction. I learned from this video, despite many years of tuning and regulating. I had never thought of the direction of flexion perpendicular to or axially alligned with the string (it really is flexing, not bending because there is no bend put in the pin unless one really does bend the tuning pin!). Your explanation made something I know intuitively, conscious. Thanks. Btw I enjoy your videos even though I don't always comment.

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks Jim, This is a concept I just recently learned as well, so I was glad to share it with everyone.

[@kdhaws]

I recently did a pitch lowering from a440 to a432. Overnight stability was a big issue. Maybe I would have had more success if I had " tuned from below ". That is to say taken the wire below the pitch and then eased it back up. Any suggestion?

[@howardpianoind]

For sure, lowering pitch will naturally result in more instability than raising pitch. Basically, when you tune from a lower pitch to a higher pitch you are twisting or bending the pin in a direction that will help stability rather than create it.

[@broadsworddannyboy5057]

I have been tuning for over 33 yrs - one can't explain this - this is a feeling that comes with years of experience tuning many pianos- Grotrian Steinwegs are the worst - getting the string moving is important.. " small circles " for fine tunings

[@amezcuaist]

This valuable video is what persuaded me to buy your Impact Hammer. I don`t know how a scientist would measure the pin bending with an impact hammer but the minute time an impact hammer is acting makes me think it is minimal . I notice how much more force is needed to raise the frequency compared with dropping the note down to set the pin.But using a Korg tuner I can see how the frequency has changed in Cents .So even though the tuner is only used for the middle octave as a tuner it gives a useful clue to how far I need to move the pin before It comes down again for the setting stage . Some pins are stiffer than others and in England with my piano they all seem tight.Not too irrelevant as bending and setting are quite close aspects . Also I am using the heavy weight at the top setting as so many pins need a hefty bump to raise them . Just early encouraging impressions as a newbie Impact Hammer user . Also you don`t need to teach up so high as the hand is normally level with the pins and the socket is always firmly in place even though the handle swivels . I have to be careful taking the hammer off the pins as it might disturb the final setting. That removal might change the setting with a mini pin bend . So if I wiggle it , I always wiggle sideways .

[@amezcuaist]

First attempts with the Impact Hammer have shown the best way (for me ) is to use the Impact movement to raise the pitch and then use the gentler methods shown to bring it in tune . I try not to bend If I can help it but it`s important to know about it .

[@Etrehumain123]

I feel I already knew all of that, like said Jime Milne: intuitively, but worth to listen to you because you explain it with words. Since I'm quite a newbie in this job, I need borders: "Okay is there anything else I need to know about the pins", ect... My way of tuning is to turn the pins by avoiding bending (hammer parallel of the string), and because it twists, just pull enough over the tune to make that when I release my hammer, the pin/pitch end up at the desired position. I don't know about impact tuning though, I'm more confortable about staying gentle to respect the material.

[@lifeways2310]

Shoninger piano

[@flyurway]

Well now I'm good and lost! So how do you determine between when you want to twist vs when you want to bend? (Obviously I'm assuming the pin has been twisted to get it pretty close to begin with.) How do you determine when to bend laterally vs longitudinally? Do you take the string slightly sharp and then bend it back to flatten it back to set it for best stability? You can tell I don't know squat and I'm not looking to tune a whole piano anyway. I have a big C7 Yamaha CG that's still in decent tune and mostly I'd like to be able to touch just up a couple notes from time to time.

[@howardpianoind]

You want to try and reduce the amount of bending that is done as the goal is to twist the pin in the pinblock. Positioning the handle of your tuning hammer toward the back of the piano will help the bending to be side to side rather than front to back which will reduce the amount of affect it will have on the pitch of the string.

[@fnersch3367]

My piano was last tuned in 1967. It's about 1/8 semitone flat overall. What preparations need to be done before any attempt to tune it myself? It's a 1935 Krakauer Bros. (Brooklyn, NY) grand about 5.5 feet long. Are rust bridges a potential problem?

[@howardpianoind]

Considering it hasn’t been tuned in that long, I’m surprised it’s only off by that much. Rust could pose a problem. The only thing that you may want to do is to pull the pitch slightly flat before bringing it up to pitch to help reduce the risk of strings breaking. What this does is breaks any rust bond at the termination points.

[@fnersch3367]

@@howardpianoind Thanks for this advice. Our piano tuner (he died in 1968) had a liquid he would put on at the contact point of the string and the agraffe of a piano that had gone a long time without a tuning. Have you ever heard of this?

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, you would use Protek CLP for this, but don’t get it near the tuning pins.

[@codyjaybditw]

Tuning stability can be hard to get/ understand until you actually feel what is right vs what is wrong. You have to understand that tuning pins do bend and flex, but you have to try to used that to your advantage than having it work against you. If the entire pin is in the right spot, you should be able to move the pitch slightly flat and slightly sharp by just twisting the pin and the pitch should move the same amount either way. It should feel like the pin is in the middle. If its hard to move the pitch sharp but if you put a little pressure to the flat side and the pitch drops really flat, then you don't have the pin turned far enough in the pinblock. You need to turn the entire pin clockwise a bit more, and make sure its actually turning in the pin block. Its hard to explain, you really just have to feel whats right and whats not and it will make more sense. Nice video though!

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks for sharing Lucas. Your explanation I'm sure will be helpful to many.

[@Pianist203]

You are right, I'm still tuner student, but my tunings gained a lot of stability after I realized those same things you mentioned. It's exactly the way you described of being able to twist the pin same amounts off sharp and flat when the pin is in the middle, and staying position. After that some test blows and if it stays, it will stay. I'm pretty satisfied with my lever technique, and even though it's still developing, I think I'm on the right way. Maybe I will also try some impact techniques at some point.

[@IsaacOLEG]

The goal finally is to have the pin a little more stressed than the wire (the pin get torque from the wire in any case) so the test is that you need 2x more force to LOWER the pitch by bowing a little the pin, than to raise it (it raise more easily than it lowers) WHen the pin is set very tight (that mean there is residual twist in the pin that lock it in place but tend to pull sharp ( a hair) , in fact you cannot lower the pitch by twisting it as the pin is twisted at the max acceptable. (in fact I pass the good spot a hair and release the pin, then the wire pitch raise a tiny bit while the pin untwist) talking of may be one degree or 2 on release The small extra tension is not enough to pass the friction of the bearing points, but will be active in case of a strong blow, it will put the tension back to the speaking length after the strong wave received from a very strong blow playing. Most concert tunings leave the piano with that security reserve that mean if you have to repair the tuning you will more often find strings that are a hair high than the opposite. Putting them back where they belong takes only a very little push on the lever while the playing hand send enough energy to have the tensions equalize. (not absolutely playing extra strong, enough sensitivity in the lever hand allow to feel exactly what is happening in the pin, wher it is locked (from its very bottom or on a longer portion in the pinblock) I learned first to be absolutely aware of the plane of rotation of the pin, and hold the lever making motions in that plane only. But now I read enough the pin deformation, I can take the end of the lever with 3 fingers, not locking it in the plane, I could even tune by just pulling on the lever the position of the lever vs the string make the pin twist more or less. We may not forget that the pinblock resiliency play a role too the pin does not turn as in a tight non moveable media, the pinblock add its elasticity to the one of the pin.

[@philippecosta5834]

Lucas Brookins, RPT s

[@philippecosta5834]

Lucas Brookins, RPT Je

[@johngrosh4848]

Thank you Steve Howard for sharing your expertise. Very well done videos.

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks for watching John. I'm glad you enjoyed our videos!

[@headstrument7657]

Great information, thanks. Tuning my AA today. It's from 1907- and I just love it!

[@MarianoPerez]

I have tune my piano twice now. The first time that I tuned it it lasted about 3 weeks. However, the second time that I've turned it started going out of town about a day or two after. It didn't help that I had to tune the piano in two sessions, the treble part of the piano one day and the bass of the piano the following day. Thank you for the tips I hope I do a better job next time.

[@howardpianoind]

Good Luck & Happy Tuning!

[@yoshiotakatori4679]

cool ! so helpful the video thank you !

[@abrahamwu9680]

Which tuning hammer angle did you use in this video? I also have a Mason and Hamlin AA, and would like to have a hammer for occasional touchups. I'm debating whether a 5 or 10 degree head is better. Thanks!

[@howardpianoind]

I use a 5 degree head angle which works fine, but the 10 degree angle would work just as well.

[@IsaacOLEG]

depends of the goal, when I raise, I want to twist the pin much and to read how much it may twist befor moving, so I hold the lever at 90 degree on a grand piano, then, to set the pin and release the extra twist I could have left, I orient the lever from 12:30 to 14:00. Just on release, the pin untwist yet a lot, but some twisting the other direction allows to install residual twist in the pin that make it very stiff and as "glued" in the pin block . Hope that helps (many tuners only add stress by making the final tune with a slightly bowed pin, that pull on the string on release bu stay bowed a hair then. It is way more effective to use the pin twist in that intention the pin will be bowed too but I do not bow it while tuning. The string have yeta lot of tension to give to help keep the pin in its position. Hope that may help. PS sorry this was not your question , I dont like a too strong angle, but a small one oblige to use extra long tips that are not ideal to master the twist and bow motions (you have too much force with a long tip) I think I use 10 degree (standard Yamaha tuning lever)

[@joshbonner9409]

Abraham Wu I use a 45 degree angle when tuning a piano!

[@bensiciliano866]

Thank You, Steve. A very insightful video, as usual. Is there any downside to using an impact tuning lever on grands? You mention in one of your other videos that the impact hammer is most commonly used for uprights.

[@howardpianoind]

The Impact Tuning Hammer can be used on grand pianos but it doesn't have the same effect as on uprights as you don't have the gravity factor working for you because the lever is in a horizontal position rather than a vertical position.

[@Etrehumain123]

Thank you I was wondering about that too.

[@scotteburns]

I'd love to see bending and twisting of tuning pins measured. It seems to me the wood fibers are more likely to bend and twist.

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks for the tips!

[@MercerBay]

Well-presented and informative video - thank you!

[@danwebster5439]

Why are there so many tuning pins in the treble of that particular piano? My small grand has a max of 3 per note

[@howardpianoind]

There are just 3 per note. It may just appear that there are more.

[@jimmymio]

New info to me and very helpful. Thanks

[@shandfan]

I was for a time working as a tuner in a German factory. Having the task of checking instruments before transport and delivering to the shops..And it always was unbelievable to me,that there were now and then instruments with heavily jumping tuning pins. I reported,but was not allowed to discard those instruments.Ohh....you know,which manufacturer I mean? (there were more of them)

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks for watching!

[@maxrey4055]

How about the Levitan Professional hammer to help avoid bending?

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, the Levitan professional lever does prevent most of this, but it doesn't work on upright pianos.

[@vasilikonstan]

Many piano technicians who use the Levitan Professional intentionally bend the pin as part of their stabilization technique. The tool can be used either way, depending on the preference of the technician. Dan Levitan, the inventor of the Levitan Professional, bends the pin slightly when he tunes.

[@markanthonydiamond]

Great video! Succinct and to the point.

[@naokookadahill5639]

Yes that make sense !

[@howardpianoind]

Great, thanks for watching!

[@RedHareBKK]

Nice. Useful. Informative. Thanks.

[@colinmurphy2214]

Will lowering the tension enough to remove a string at the hitch pin compromise the tuning stability when I bring it back up to pitch?

[@howardpianoind]

It will affect the strings around it to some degree.

[@colinmurphy2214]

howardpianoind Would lowering the entire bass section be too risky?

[@howardpianoind]

It would be best to just do one or a few strings at once.

[@colinmurphy2214]

howardpianoind should I only restore tension on the strings again one at a time as well? And about how long should I leave between each string? And thank you for the advice, you are doing my 1903 grand and me a lot of good!

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, the idea is to not remove the tension from one section of the piano and leave the tension up on the rest of the piano.

[@adrian_barden]

Thanks so much for this!

[@paxwallace8324]

Look at that gorgeous Mason & Hamlin. Is that an AA?

[@jonmullins8460]

Before watching this I thought slow movements would be better. Now I get why some of my movements didn't work so well.

[@joaozitchu1222]

But Jon, how do you feel about doing slow movements? Yesterday, I tuned a piano for the first time and when I went to try to make quick moves, I felt there wasn't enough strength to change the frequency of the string the way I wanted. Do you have any tips?

[@jonmullins8460]

@@joaozitchu1222 Sorry, I wish I had a good answer for you. But I've only tuned my own piano the one time.

[@RayDayHakker]

If tuning was done regularly to a piano as shown i.e. pin bending ( which leverages the pin against the inner pin block hole wall ) twisting and shaking the pin... the wrest plank i.e. pin block. would definitely prematurely wear out and so too the tuning stability.

[@Zuke22]

Its like a whammy bar

[@bamaslamma1003]

Why do they call this tool a “hammer” when it’s clearly a wrench? The felt-covered things that strike the strings, hammers, are correctly named. But the tool functions like a wrench.

[@howardpianoind]

I'm not sure why they call this a tuning hammer. It must have gotten the name somewhere along the way, but I'm not sure about the reason.

[@derklavierbaukunstler8391]

The name comes from historical uses. The “tuning hammer” was originally used to hammer down the pins in harpsichord. Later, piano factory tuning hammers were struck on the directly on head-many factory-style tuning hammers are still like this. Today, tuning is generally done with a “tuning hammer” that has the flexibility to interchange tip sizes and angles. This increased flexibility in design means the “hammer” can no longer hammer or be hammered upon without causing damage. Some tuners call this a tuning lever to distinguish it from a factory tuning hammer.

[@engineeringgarage5113]

A good Mechanical engineer should be able to tune a piano with ease.

[@ashleycollier8994]

I have the worlds most out of tune piano

[@shandfan]

Bending and twisting is most of the cases due to bad material,of which the pins are made.,having an oversize of resielience.Which leads to an oversize of TORSION of the pin.The enemy of every tuner,let alone things as "false beats".

[@howardpianoind]

Well said!

[@shandfan]

@@howardpianoind Thanks.Addition,I personally am no friend of agraffes.Most of the false beats are chords,running through these infernal things.Although,it NEEDS not be like that,but the right place on the soundboard bridge,so that you can increase the right pressure on that bridge,and especially the SIDEWARD pressure on the bridge pins.(Other solution,using broader bridge pins) A string has several points of rest,and the they must be all in the right place and that means controlling these points in very little millimeter measure fractions,and that never happens.sufficiently. The same about drilling the holes in the pin block.These holes are in some cases drilled to much under each other,so ...moving a pin while tuning,the neighbour reacts. I do think...just That is the reason,why Steinway D has no agraffes in the last section of the treble.On the other hand,Bechstein and Bösendorfer do not care for that. Whence these differences? As I said before.....mistakes and failures in production,......the worst of all is LACK of proper MATERIAL. But...false beats...a great problem? Maybe for some "newcomers and wouldbe's"Professionally considered you can.t hear them,when listening in a concert hall and also using the pedal it is sufficient to distract things.Well?!