HP Firmware BLOCKS TP Cartridges Laws Broken?

HP Release firmware to block third party ink cartridges. This may have significant consumer law implications.
Read about it: www.lbc.co.uk/... printers-non-hp-ink/ from @LBCOfficial
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[@andywilliams7323]

This is a test moment. If HP gets away with this in the long term. Then other brands will follow and do the same.

[@kathrynwhitby9799]

Epson are another mob

[@us5634]

Epson is doing it now. I had that experience.

[@kevinmatthews2620]

epson did this years ago read my comment & solution for current epson ecotank printers

[@brianwithers162]

It isn't a new thing, HP started doing this 4 or 5 years ago. Happened to me with my 5 cartridge laserjet.

[@doubleplusgoodthinker9434]

If HP do not want people to use third cartridges, they should charge a lot less for their own cartridges. This has been known to be a racket for years.

[@tgheretford]

They're doing this to nudge everyone to HP Instant Ink. KZbin is starting to head this way. Blocking ad-blockers and running numerous ads in rapid succession to nudge us all to subscribe to Premium.

[@merlin5476]

Around 2 months ago i went jnto a WH Smith stationers to buy a set of H/P cartridges ( set of 4) & was quoted £120.00 . I laughed at the shop assistant. And walked out.

[@alanfairbrother890]

​@@merlin5476 they dropped the price of printers. And recouping the printer discount by over charging on the ink cartridges

[@Shaun137]

@@alanfairbrother890 True, they recoup the cost on the consumables.

[@Sotto_]

I just want a cartridge that doesn't dry out! I'm so sick of having to throw our cartridges because they're dried out long before they've run out. Good thing I don't use hp.

[@DeclanMBrennan]

Well worth highlighting this. The whole idea of ownership is under treat now more than ever before. One small correction. It's not an upgrade. It's a *downgrade* .

[@SpartasEdge]

Good point, it is a clear 'down'grade.

[@malcolmabram2957]

I am reluctant to upgrade any software now as of late it seems to make things worse.

[@SpartasEdge]

@@malcolmabram2957 The the problem with online things, it can give them all kinds of negative controls.

[@jenniferjen5422]

Especially when this type of malpractice could be rolled out to implanted medical devices or wifi limbs. If you don't pay they switch it off!

[@SpartasEdge]

@@jenniferjen5422 Exactly, it's very much open to abuse... This is why companys like Microsoft and games developers are keen to make games online reliants and downloads, because they know it giibes them ultimate control. Remember how Microsoft tried to make their Xbox One mandataory online connected and impose all sorts of controls? Thanks goodness the consumer was savvy and was having none of it.. You might not know of this, but that's what they tried to do.

[@tezinho81]

Any laws potentially broken will depend on the territory, they sell these printers globally. I do think consumers should have the right to choose though, as long as cartridges are not fraudulently sold as originals.

[@caparn100]

The same thing happened to my father about 10 years ago. He upgraded the printer firmware and could no longer use third party cartridges. The firmware update was non-reversible.

[@VCanisMajorisY]

It was reversible, he needed to download the sledgehammer application. Smash and swap.

[@bobikdylan]

I'm on my third HP laptop and have been happy with them. I've also had a couple of HP printers, including the one I use now. As a teacher I used to print loads of stuff for students, but technology has made this unnecessary (I just take a picture of a document and send it to students, who then view it on their phones). I have noticed that I get fewer and fewer prints from HP cartridges. I also get notifications that my cartridge is not HP, which is not true. I have to restart sometimes to get the prints I want. This will be the last HP printer I buy. So long, HP, you really blew it. 20 years a loyal customer and you just lost me.

[@stephenwabaxter]

Bobik, You are right. The Epson ET-5150 would be ideal for your application. Regards, Stephen

[@PaulMansfield]

I'll be buying a framework laptop next time

[@rickyroaster]

They're blinded by greed, my HP went in bucket 4 weeks ago, and got an Epson. I will never ever buy another HP PRODUCT ever

[@gwheregwhizz]

Additionally charities that take used cartridges to be sold to refilling companies will lose a lot of income, not to mention more cartridges going to landfill. Total PR disaster.

[@hairyairey]

HP already have a cartridge recycling scheme

[@mikehipperson]

@@hairyairey Yes but it's not efficient or cost effective. I bought an HP printer and signed up to there 'replacement' scheme at £1.99 per month. When the cartridges got to a low level HP was supposed to send replacements automatically. Although I didn't abuse their system, the replacements didn't arrive and, despite using HP branded products to keep me going, I received an email telling me that the cartridges were not recognised! I guess HP no longer want anyone's custom?

[@hairyairey]

@@mikehipperson I would have cancelled. Mine is working fine.

[@hairyairey]

@@ts757arse Or, one kind of printer that can take any ink but the warranty is invalidated if you use third party ink.

[@hairyairey]

@@ts757arse thing is that ink is as specialist as hydraulic fluid. I have never seen cut price hydraulic fluid, I imagine there are some standards to pass. Yet cheap printer ink is somehow OK?

[@dave24-73]

I have used third party toners for over 10 years and printer works fine. Never had any issues, and you can always isolate the printer on your network if you were scraped about rouge firmware. I recently found out that many printers simply rely on the counter to say they are empty, I have a colour laser and it said I needed to replace the toners, then found a hidden service menu online where you can reset the counter and I have managed to print another 300 pages and it’s still going. I question the legalities of many of the steps that printer manufacturers have put in place to try and force people to buy toner even when it’s not technically needed. It a Pears to me they are misleading consumers and creating an issue in regards to being renewable. Printer manufacturers claim they discount the printers and only make money on the ink and toners, I don’t be,I’ve this as the tech in a printer isn’t that high. If this is the case I’d sooner pay more for a reliable printer with. I issues, than have a discounted one that is locked down.

[@gettogo0159]

@Dave 24-7: Any chance to DM me the link or material I'd like have look at it to see it work for me if your willing.

[@SpartasEdge]

I tried third party cartridges on my HP printer several months ago, and the printer wouldn't accept them,,specifically saying it would only accept HP cartridges. I won't be getting another HP printer again, after replacing this one, for this reason.

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

​@@SpartasEdgespeak to me.. I have a cure for this. You will need to download the oldest firmware for your model of printer. Install it. If your toner starts working again, then update to the next version that will still allow your 3rd party toner to work. When an update stops you from using them, go back to the last one. Then, most importantly, turn off auto update within the printer software. And if possible, do not network share it, unless you have to. Use usb. Note that win11 will find the printer and microshit will force the latest firmware onto the printer by default. Just roll it back to the working version.. and all will be sweet

[@bobl.1044]

Yes. This was pointed out in the documentary The Lightbulb Conspiracy It is available on KZbin But it does not give the details of the program to do it

[@SpartasEdge]

@@H1pok0ndr1ak Thanks for this advice, i will think about it, but it sounds like it couid be a bit of a gamble to buy a couple of third party cartridges on the off chance an earlier update might work..

[@EdMcF1]

Anti-Trust in the USA, EU competition laws etc. Hope they get a huge turnover fine. If customers want to run a 'malware' risk, let them.

[@MrSimonkd]

This happened to me but it was actually a genuine HP cartridge that I had taken out of another HP printer but because the printer thought it was a refill it disabled it.

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

There is some software out there that fixes this... Google software to bypass hp toner lock down...

[@kev7345]

There should be a law to force all manufacturers to clearly state in big bold letters in high contrast all over the packaging of their products that they will actively prevent any aftermarket parts / accessories from being used on them, hopefully people will eventually get the message and buy something else

[@n43510]

Better still, the owner of any appliance should have the right to repair/maintain it using any service and parts of the owner's choice.

[@beccabbea2511]

@@n43510 Can you imagine the hullabaloo if the makers of kitchen gadgets decided we could only buy our groceries from XX supermarket? Or that you can only use YY oil in your car engine?

[@aleopardstail]

"reduce the risk of malware attacks", except those undertaken by HP themselves of course

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

So explain to me, in simple words... how a toner cartridge can be vulnerability in the printer for malware and such, that will reduce the functionality of the printer. Other than poor quality of the toner itself... which is from the same supplier of hp own brand toner cartridges (allegedly)... so the actual cartridge is manufactured to be 99 % exactly the same as the hp cartridge, and it has a chip, which (allegedly) is identical to the hp chip. But obviously hp add "secret sauce" to their chips, so that the firmware can detect "substandard" refills from 3rd party manufacturers. And make the printer shut down or worse, tell lies about the inner workings of the laser printer.... So tell me... in simple words, how a toner cartridge chip can damage the IP of HP?

[@aleopardstail]

@@H1pok0ndr1ak well... a lot depends on just what the chip in the toner cart does, and how stupid HP have been in "trusting" that chip, in theory if the chip has executable code and the printer is stupid enough to load it and run it I guess it could do pretty much anything. if HP have been that stupid if its a chip thats basically a small microcontroller with say a serial interface, the printer sends it a message, it does something with it and replies and the printer checks the reply is 'correct' it should be perfectly safe, as long again as HP haven't been stupid and there are no buffer overflows etc otherwise its essentially pure rubbish either HP are saying "we are so incompetent a toner cart can carry malware" or they are saying "we are so greedy we are going to tell you to bend over and take it" either way they are on my "do not buy" list and have been for a while I suspect this will be rolled back, partly as a "mistake", and they will simply make the same "mistake" again shortly after

[@Terry.W]

Apparently they keep the price of their printers low but charge a lot for the ink..HP ink is usually double the price of other makers..

[@kathrynwhitby9799]

Epson even more so

[@dopiaza2006]

@@tc1027 Only if they can prove that the third party ink caused a fault. It's up to them to prove it did, not you to prove it didn't.

[@Adam_Boots]

It's not the first controversial thing printer companies have done. What about having them only able to print if all colouts have ink meaning you couldn't even print out in black and white if only the colour needed to be replaced.

[@Drew-Dastardly]

Not only that, on multi-function printers they disable the scanner when an ink cartridge is out. Preposterous!

[@Adam_Boots]

I'd forgot about that. I remember reading about it and couldn't think of any possible way they could justify it.

[@stun9771]

Why can’t you just set your printer, using the on-screen set up, to print in ‘greyscale’ only…that should work…just leave the MT colour ink cartridges in the machine…if it complains, pull,out the colour cartridges, push them back in again, and when it says ‘did you replace x cartridge’ just answer ‘yes’…the machine will accept your fib without question…then you have a ‘greyscale’ printer until such time as you choose to replace any colour cartridges…

[@Drew-Dastardly]

@@stun9771 Hahaha. No. Have you ever used a HP inkjet?

[@glyngibbs9489]

Epson have been doing this for years. I deliberately turned off updates gir this reason. Unfortunately Epson changed the settings access to prevent updates from being turned off. It was cheaper vto buy a new 3 in one then buy a set of cartridges. They also prevent you from refilling cartridges. I moved over to HP in the end. Looks like I'll be looking for another brand now!

[@billgrisenthwaite3874]

i have an epson printer ( xp-255)and have no trouble using third party inks from ebay. I do find though that if one colour has to be replaced sometimes you have to take them all out and put them all back in again

[@philallen5406]

Hi, Six months ago I bought third party ink jet cartridges for my HP Printer at less than half the cost, along with them was instructions on how to adjust my printers settings NOT to upgrade/detect the printer firmware automatically and stop it from operating, so far its working fine

[@pnyarrow]

It is a pain in the bum to use third party inks in the HP printer anyway. I bought a printer to print I did not sign a contract to use HP ink! Thank you for bringing this to everyone's notice.

[@KevinWMoor]

HP, and other printer manufacturers, use the Gillette sales model. The printers themselves are sold at a loss on the assumption that the profit will be made on the replacement cartridges. They have a vested interest in stopping customers from using 3rd party ink. The old argument used to be that non-manufacturer cartridges were inferior and could block the ink jets. That's possibly been pretty much disproved and, consequently, they've turn to the malware excuse.

[@stephenwabaxter]

Today the Ink Tank printer technology is far superior to the old ink cartridge option. It was pioneered by Epson who now dominate the market. As a former OKI Quality Engineer I always advise people to purchase Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) Ink as I know from experience the investment in Research and Development, Characterisation and Quality Testing that companies like Epson make. No third party could ever compete with factory resources and engineers.

[@gracesprocket7340]

@@stephenwabaxter I'd note that at MSRP the ink tank refills cost £0.15 per ml, rather than 'upto' £3 per ml for some of the worse offending cartridge printers. Absolutely no point running anything else at that price point, especially considering the 'proper' pricing of the printer that uses the ink tanks... more expensive up front, but still affordable, and the ink pays for itself in very short order compared to the 'free printer with your first cartridge' model used by the unscrupulous - at best this is obscenely overpriced for the supplies - at worst it also generates a lot of completely unnecessary waste as people just buy a new printer and discard the old, rather than buying cartridges.

[@daviddavidc2197]

I fail to see any difference between purchasing third party consumable spares for a printer, and fitting third party parts on a car? Invalid any manufacturers warranty...sure, but to prevent you from using the car thereafter?

[@WhiteDieselShed]

Of course it does, buy a brand new car with Michelin tyres and fit a Bridgestone tyre and the car will explode into 1000's of pieces whilst voiding the warranty. Same with the headlamp bulbs, If it uses Philips and you fit an Osram bulb the same will happen. Oh no that was a dream the head of HP had.. :)

[@mikesheldon1957]

If you download that firmware upgrade and it breaks your printer so it stops working for some reason, you can always download a firmware version that is below the one you upgraded to and overwrite the installed firmware so it will work again. I have a HP Color Laserjet Pro M254dw printer and the last firmware upgrade actually made mine stop working with genuine HP toner cartridges so I just downloaded a previous version and installed that over it to get the printer working again, I reported the problem to HP so they can fix the fix that broke it in the first place.

[@DM-it2ch]

A friend who's a top IT boffin told me years ago to turn off firmware updates on all printers. It's been common knowledge for years that this is what firmware updates are all about.

[@eliakimjosephsophia4542]

I bought a HP printer in November 2022 and then couldn't download the software for imac. Had to give the printer away. I won't buy another HP printer.

[@johnnyshinnichi1785]

I can see the adverts appearing on TV now: "Did you own an HP printer between 2022 and 2023? Thousands of people like you were prevented using 3rd party refills. Make your claim now".

[@tjxkeith]

Lexmark have done something similar with toner cartridges. I bought a kit to refill my toner cartridge. I added the toner to the Lexmark cartridge and it worked ok for a short time they I got a meeting saying I need to replace the cartridge with a genuine Lexmark cartridge. It looks as the printer monitors the amount of toner used in the genuine cartridge then then flags up you require a genuine cartridge.

[@barfmeister8509]

I had a HP printer and initially signed upto their ink scheme. I soon found the scheme was costing a lot of money and was looking for 3rd party cartridges. Unfortunately, 3rd party cartridges weren’t available for the model I had so I bought a Epson and literally binned the HP. The Epson is capable of upto 14000 sheets off one tank fill which costs around £35 for the 4 colours. Never again will I opt for a HP product

[@r1273m]

I bought an HP MFP laser 5 years ago. Every replacement toner has been from a third party manufacturer and I have never had any problems. However, I never update the software and my computer is connected to the printer by a USB cable. As I understand it, most printers no longer have a USB connection, they are totally wireless so that could be a source of problems.

[@shorttimer874]

I have a Brother laser printer that does the same thing, plus it stops working when a copy counter is reached, rather than if the cartridge is actually is empty. For that counter to work is has to assume that each page is using the maximum amount of toner.

[@robertparkinson2102]

I vaguely remember a late 1980's computer hacking law making it illegal to put software on a device that reduces its functionality. Would that be applicable?

[@stephenwhiley1129]

Something else you may not realize is HP cartridges are also regionalised. Apparently to stop you buying cheaper cartridges from abroad!

[@pmason1234]

My HP printer hasn’t accepted third party cartridges for years, if you got them the printer simply doesn’t recognise that any cartridges have been installed, there was a comment made by BOFH and the PFY years ago that said that printer manufacturers aren’t really in the printer business they are in the ink business 😞😞

[@lolzlolz69]

Imagine buying a car and being restricted to ONLY using Shell V Power. No different.

[@DanThomasUK]

Don’t Tesla have a model that is essentially that?

[@stephen_101]

​@@DanThomasUKThey provide adaptors for other charging point standards, and are starting to open up their own charging network to other cars.

[@deang5622]

Actually it is different because the car manufacturers don't produce fuel, so you actually have no choice but to use a company for fuel which is someone other than car manufacturer. Your example is poor, however, if you look at the car industry, a better example would be that car manufacturers which provide spares for their cars, cannot force you to only buy spares manufactured by them, you can go to companies like German Swedish and French and buy their cheaper equivalent parts and use them, and there is nothing the car manufacturers can do. So if the principle applies successfully in one industry, it is highly likely any litigation will be successful and the same principle be permitted to apply to the computer printer industry

[@simonleeofficial]

If paper were the fuel it would be a better analogy. Tyres, air filters, radiator fluid etc same thing though.

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

​@@simonleeofficialDymo printers are now doing exactly that with their current range of label printers... a secret chip in the centre tube talks to the printer and does "secret" stuff that stops you from printing on non chipped labels...

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Computer misuse act -"making unauthorised changes to a computer system" ?

[@ca60453]

This happen to someone I know recently and we both have the HP Envy 5055. I have a OpnSense router and what I did was created a firewall that blocks HP printer from reaching the internet and it can only communicate in the internal network. Now I will make sure my HP printer will never get another firmware update.

[@Clodhopping]

This has been happening for at least 20 years.... In our printroom we had pro-level large copiers/printers. If we used 3rd party cartridges the paper would jam every few minutes. Each cartridge had a chip to allow the printer to read ink levels but clearly allowed the printer to identify a non-OEM cartridge and cause stoppages. As soon as we installed an official cartridge the printers worked 100% fine. The copier/printer engineers were quite open about it.

[@fivish]

Cartridge chips dont read ink levels, how couild they? They are counters.

[@uavsitesurvey]

thanks for this...I NOW WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM HEWLETT PACKARD

[@BlackStump172]

Brother have been doing this for years . My cartridge guy said to not update .

[@AYoutubeAccountName]

I looked at getting a new printer last year. The budget consumer market is a nightmare. They're all like this, though as far as I know most don't make old printers incapable of accepting 3rd party cartridges. That prevention just seems to be there in the first place on new models.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Software update prevents your product working - how is this not criminal damage?

[@orpheus5995]

Went to a local supermarket about a year ago and for a twin pack 301 cartridge pack it was £38. Was in same supermarket 3 weeks later and it had gone up to £48. Absolutely outrageous for a thimble full of ink.

[@flowntn1989]

I could just about swallow the cost premium of OEM cartridges when the printer cost was clearly a lost leader. Not any more. The 9010 that I’ve just bought to replace a 5 year old 8620 cost 3x as much, and for an inferior product, and no where did it say that I was locked into HP originals. That is locked into the firmware as sold, not an update. I feel I have been hoodwinked. Btw some blocked printers can be unblocked with instructions on the HP website, but not recent models.

[@TheLeedsAppreciationSociety]

It's as bad as a car manufacturer trying to force owners into only using a certain brand of petrol. I have an HP Envy 4502 which is installed on a computer which is never connected to the internet. Due to what I believe is a software corruption which happened when I had to replace the motherboard, there's no longer a facility for checking the ink levels, so the cartridges actually run out with no warning happening. I refilled them, and they still work. I've not intentionally done anything to try to fool the printer, it just keeps on working. Long may it continue etc.

[@cplcabs]

Many thanks for the info....I just stopped my HP from connecting to the internet so it doesn't update to avoid this craziness.

[@triviabuff5682]

Some years back, I bought some 3rd party ink for my (non HP) printer. I loaded the black cartridge, and the printer refused to work. I returned to the proprietary black cartridge, and it worked again, so I've had to spend stupid amounts on proprietary ink ever since.

[@billgrisenthwaite3874]

see my answer above

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

Roll the firmware back to a working version... turn off auto update. Only use usb.. not network ethernet

[@ajax201000]

The fact that third party ink exists is because its cheaper than the official brand, thats why we buy third party. This clearly shows that HP overcharge for their ink, so the solution to this is for HP to reduce their price to a fair, affordable amount. They clearly think that if they block third party ink then all of us who usually go for that cheaper option will just start paying the higher price that HP charges. This is just idiotic, in actual fact the most likely scenario is that we will sell our HP printers and buy another brand.

[@kathrynwhitby9799]

the market of today, no-one want's used printers. Can't even give them away. (unless printers for "Africa" are interested.)

[@ruspj]

if bought for over £100 through a credit card in the past 6 years would another solution be to contact the credit card company and start a refund claim under the section 75 of the consumer credit act? with enough of push from this and other methods they might be pressured into rolling back the update dont own one myself but this came to mind when you described the problem

[@jules.b5141]

Daniel, I have said for a few years now that ever since hp printers went online (air printers) & can connect to the internet independently, that they were sending blockers through the internet to disable the printer if you’re using third party inks. ( & they thought I was crazy) My thoughts on this are especially when you sign up for automatic deliveries of inks when your printer runs low. How do they know? cos the printer communicates with hp, & if they can do that they can know when the cartridge isn’t genuine & tell the company. It happened to me & many people i know. I now keep my printer off line & have it hard wired so it can’t connect to internet & only turn it on when i need to print. Take your air printer offline, it isn’t necessary. My hp mono printer also has been telling me my toner is running low, 500 pages ago, & I ignored it. Same with my Dell colour laser. They’re making dummies out of us. I’m glad you have reported on this Daniel!

[@marksrye]

A quick google shows this has been standard on some of their printers to block 3rd party cartridges since 2016, pc world lists an article from 2016.

[@afreeman1980]

Some firms put a usage counter on both the ink cartridges and the printers. I bought a "zapper" for the cartridges and refilled them with ink myself. That worked but when the machine counter clicked in I gave up and bought a more expensive printer that uses refillable tubs. When it's machine counter clicks in I will endeavour to purchase a zapper for that if anyone has developed one.

[@galadriel4101]

Epson printers did the same. I had to buy Epson ink after buying third party ink. Spent another 45.00 to get the Epson ink. Was not happy about this.

[@stukaseptember]

I remember when you bought printer ink by the gallon. Now with the cartridge systems it is one of the most expensive liquids on the planet.

[@davidclark1545]

Go Epsom ecotank printers, had mine 18 months and still on the original bottles that came with it. Replacements are only £32.

[@TheAlexagius]

Hence why i use usb on the primers, many still have it hidden behind a sticker which it tells you not to remove and use the default drivers windows installs and they work

[@pdtech4524]

There is usually a work around, which I'll share! They all tend to 'force' you to use their own brand cartridges. For several reasons but mostly because they actually make more money selling you their cartridges as there isn't much profit in selling you a printer that might last 10 years or more! Some of the cheaper cartridges will dry out or block the inkjet printing head in the machine. We had an Epson printer at work that had numerous colour cartridges that ran in the printer head, it was expensive to run at +£30 a cartridge! We bought a kit that fitted our specific model. It basically has a tank for each colour, which you just fill with cheaper inkjet ink that we bought in bulk large sized bottles. The tanks sit by the orinter and connect via small lines that connect to the existing ink cartridges in the printer head. So basically you never replace the original ink cartridges and they always run full. It's far more economical, we were doing A3 colour prints all day long constantly, so it saved us huge sums of money! ⚠️😲😁👍

[@davidlister7214]

I do something similar. However, ink cartridges come with a page estimation. If the ICs inside the cartridges come with unique identifiers as well as proving they are genuine OEM cartridges, then the printer is going to know that something is happening when you print 600 pages from a 200 page-rated colour cartridge.

[@gracesprocket7340]

Recently(ish) Epson, among others have been selling ET series of printers and their other brand equivalents - so you can have the convenience and economy of large tank printing, with the reliability/support of a designed for purpose and 'as sold' with a warranty printer. They do both A4 and A3 models, not the cheapest, but for long term moderate use, *far* cheaper than thimble sized replaceable cartridges.

[@pdtech4524]

@@gracesprocket7340 It was an older printer, an Epson Stylus 3000, the tanks weren't the really small office type cartridges, they were quite big but when you're printing A3 colour prints all day long, they don't last very long at all. There were cheaper compatibles but the colours weren't quite the same, so we invested in a system which used bigger tanks and we just bought the ink in bulk refill bottles, it was much cheaper to run.

[@gracesprocket7340]

@@pdtech4524 I know what you mean, just noting that the conversion with all the risks of messy errors isn't the only way to get this class of product which was and end-user hack-job when first seen - and the manufacturers sell ink jets with 70+ml individual "top up and run" ink tanks, rather than the older style of cartridges on the head, or a conversion kits that shoehorns exterior tanks to the original head.

[@david_porthouse]

Up to now I have been a loyal customer of HP having bought both an 8600 and a 9022e in succession. I have also bought only HP ink and am currently in the HP scheme. My printer is currently knackered for reasons I do not understand. HP are invited to explain.

[@JasGawera]

This happened to my hp printer last year after a year of using aftermarket toner. All I could do was downgrade the firmware, block future updates, and remove hp from my list of printer suppliers. Along with Samsung which did the same thing before the hp. I decided to bin that otherwise working printer due to the cost of genuine toner.

[@thoughtful_criticiser]

I have a HP multi function colour laser printer scanner fax, I have just replaced the four toner cartridges. I was aware that it would not accept TP toner, I wish it could as the four cartridges cost £750, which is £400 more than the thing cost new.

[@babascustomlegocreations8837]

Dymo printers also have drm on the label rolls to prevent you from using labels other than the official ones, how the hell is a third party label roll going to effect a printer?

[@stephenwabaxter]

Until about seven years ago the Dymo tape printer was supplied exclusively with Dymo consumables (no alternatives were on the market). Now there are a number of third party alternatives and consequently the Dymo business model in somewhat undermined. However again this is a declining market (email replacing physical letters with envelopes) so the parent company, Newell Brands has diversified into product lines including countertop kitchen electricals.

[@whatsmine7848]

I remembered the problem I had with hp over their Instant Ink scheme, where I would pay a set amount to have ink delivered when I run out, it’s a shame I paid but never got any ink and when I ask to be refined hp blocked my printer working the excuse being I had a instant ink cartridge in my printer, which I never have because I never received any, after several email with pictures to prove them wrong eventually hp unblocked my printer

[@kirk59]

The only issue that I can think of with regards to the I.P. that HP refers to could relate to is the chip on each cartridge. Not sure if TP cartridges use emulation on their chip or copy the original cartridge chip?

[@szilardretkes2703]

Oh wow, no surprise here, thank you for the analysis!

[@pfb5065]

Have you tried any of the HP Instant Ink programmes? It is fantastic.

[@Jack93885]

I don't update software because it improves it (it often doesn't). I update my software to patch any security exploits and I advise anyone else to do the same

[@greenpedal370]

You will recall Apple have tried this tactic SEVERAL times in the past and always pulled back after the media gave them a shaking down. I suspect a new marketing exec in HP (possibly just arrived from Budwiser) is now having a go at trying to "add value" as I believe they call it. HP will quietly drop the idea after the media give them a good shaking down. I see HP's share price has fallen since this story hit the headlines.

[@JohnLamjohnlsl]

On the third party ink, most printer manufacturers always tell you should not use third party cartridges So they will not be selling the printer On that Point all Modern printer that is using cartridge system are sold on a lost so there is no way manufacturer will do it just look at the price different on the non cartridge system printer, they are that much more expensive because There are more difficult to recover the device cost from you retailer is a different story

[@WhiteDieselShed]

Yeah, years back they used to give printers away free if your bought the inks. Imagine buying a car and then one day it will not start, only to be told no it won't because you did not buy your fuel from the dealer. No requirement to do that at the point of sale, just a term theyy decided to add later probably illegally.

[@Christophers-Assorted-Stuff]

I don't buy printers very often, only 3 ink jets since 2008. But I check to see if cheaper cartridges are available first. I bought a really cheap laser printer after I discovered that I could convert the starter cartridge to a normal one and get refill toner really cheap.

[@5877user]

I sent an HP back to HSN because I didn’t care for the Instant Ink program because HSN said it came with 6 months if free ink. But you have to create an account and “sign in” every time even to just print one page. The reason is because that’s how they keep track of your ink so they can send you more ink when it’s time. I’m retired and don’t print very much at all. So I got a canon instead from Best Buy who set it up for me.

[@christianblack2916]

A fine example of "You will own nothing and you will be happy"

[@hugheffo]

If you look at the t&c’s of the printer, they all say “only use genuine (manufacturer name) cartridges”. We all know that the business model of these printers is to sell the printer at a loss, and make money on the ink cartridges. My advice is, if the printer is fine and your not having any issues, don’t do any firmware updates, as it’s more than likely that it will stop 3rd party cartridges from working, until the 3rd party companies tweak their chips, to work with the new firmware.

[@DanakarEndeel]

As I recall HP tried this in the past as well through an update but lost a lawsuit and had to revert the changes.

[@1697djh]

Epsom and other companies have done this for many years. They do detect if you use cartridges that you refill manually. Good luck in taking them to court over the issue.

[@parkamark]

Right to repair has now encroached on to right to use. Such is the realm of smart devices nowadays. So yeah, what is the legal standpoint when it comes to purchasing a product which, subsequently, at the whim of the manufacturer, has its original functionality reduced at some later date, for what ever reason they deem valid. Sounds very scummy to me, unless it's all printed up in fine print somewhere and was part of the original agreement/understanding when the product was initially purchased.

[@keancv]

so nower days people are pretty much renting/ leaseing an arbitary device?

[@johnhynes7891]

When I buy a car I am not forced to use a particular petrol company , or a fridge source my electricity from a certain energy company etc etc

[@MorDreadful]

I think the main point is that if you have BOUGHT the device then it is up to you how you treat it/use it/what you use in it etc. Should you be renting a device then that is obviously different. It's part of the "You will own nothing, but you will be happy" WEF. Same with software going full subscription based only. Apparently consumers are too dumb to know how to decide what to do, which is sometimes the case but depends on factors.

[@shep5041]

Worst thing I did was signing up for HP Ink monthly. NIGHTMARE 😢😢😢😢😢

[@neildarlow]

This has been going on for longer than you think. I have an HP 2630 AIO device and I lost access to third-party ink cartridges about two years ago.

[@TC-V8]

I have a HP printer, brought last year, due to a deal they had at the time, HP instant ink, which you get 15 pages per month free. They emailed me several months later saying sorry the deal is finished and I need to start paying a monthly ink subscription- only to email me a few days later saying sorry, ignore the previous email, I still have 15 pages free per month! They send me a free ink cartridge when the current one gets low.

[@brianwithers162]

Happened to my HPLaserjet a couple of years ago when it did an auto update. A quick Google and I found out that I could roll back to a previous version on the printer and then within its operating system prevent further auto updates. So I got it working and continued using after market. However, I'm not sure if HP has got round the update as I find my black cartridge runs out of ink long before it should. Shows 50% ink remaining but prints lighter and lighter. (No toner I guess). Took this up with the toner company,, they sent me a foc replacement. That did the same. Fed up I bought a genuine HP cartridge and it all worked as it should. My colour cartridges are all after market from the same company and work 100%.. Discussed with third party supplier and they refunded the cost of the black cartridge. HP not interested.

[@humphshumphs]

I had a HP printer that I used to use genuine ink cartridges in, but was given some non-genuine ones, so put these in, and the printer warned me that I had non-genuine cartridges in, but through the menu options was able to 'turn off' the check for genuine option. I would have thought that you should be able to do this even after the update. With a lot of HP cartridges they actually have the print head built in, so yes, I would say they do have intellectual property built in. It's not just HP that do this, ALL printer manufacturers are trying to get you to buy genuine inks (as this is where they make the money). It's just that HP is in the firing line today.

[@ladyflibblesworth7282]

yea, my brother printer prints white lines through everything if I try to use cheaper inc, found out that it's designed to do that. The inc costs up to £50, dries out quickly and it doesn't go far....excellent printer if you're not opposed to burning money!

[@stephen_101]

I hope they get hammered for this greedy stunt 🔨 🔨 🔨

[@hairyairey]

If you think this is bad you haven't seen Dave Gorman's rant on Epson printers

[@noelward8047]

@@hairyairey my Epson is fine.

[@hairyairey]

@@noelward8047 does it stop you printing in black and white if you have no yellow ink?

[@gracesprocket7340]

I've never liked HP printers. My current inkjet is an Epson ET2650 - which is actually economical enough to want to use - roughly the same as a B&W photocopy for colour. Just top up the tanks from the squeezy ink-bottle and carry one whenever the levels get close to the 'you've got about a 100 pages left' line. The ink costs about the same as any of the basic cartridge printers, but you get 70ml rather than ~7ml

[@WhiteDieselShed]

I would be asking the question of where on the box or on the specifications does it state aftermarket inks cannot be used. If that was a feature to protect the printer and user I would expect them to make it bold and clearly visible on the box and specifications. They should have no issue marketing that fact if they truly believe what they are spouting. Cynical me thinks they want to do this stealthily and hope the ones affected are out of warranty.

[@morpheusmemnoch4160]

epson already voids warranty if you use non epson ink and I can tell you from experience with both that if you use the correct ink, you will experience far less problems with head bloackage and things. You can still use the printer though.

[@stevemoss7793]

I certainly agree that this is scandalous, as is the cost of "genuine" ink/toner. That said, I'd be very surprised if HP (or to be fair any other printer manufacturer) ever sold their machines with the promise of compatibility with TP ink!

[@n43510]

In some jurisdictions there is an implicit warranty of "fitness for use" When you buy an espresso machine there's no promise that it will work with TP coffee, or TP water, you just naturally expect it to. A printer is no different.

[@ldarm]

Very sad, have they got nothing better to do!?

[@lucifermorningstar4606]

having worked in IT 15 year, 3rd party ink and toner is usually terrible, they are most often used cartages that have been refilled, they often leak and cause all sorts of issues.

[@leexgx]

Printer firmware updates are usually automatic (most customers don't update there printer manually)

[@David-ci1vn]

I've never seen compatability with third party cartridges mentioned other than by way of potential failure.

[@ace90210ace]

As much as I agree, a very similar thing happened with Sony and the PS3 where they removed support for a feature (Linux support) in an update. There was a court case and at the time I recall all the "expert" lawyers dismissing your argument of consumer rights act because they stated it's not a primary feature and so long as users had the ability to install Linux after they brought it for a few months Sony can disable it because they have effectively "had their money's worth now" for that feature because it's a minor feature From what I recall Sony settled out of court so there's no way to be sure what would have happened

[@gadget348]

I don't print very often but I do need a printer, so I only buy a printer on special offer then I use it till the ink runs out. That printer then goes for recycling and I set up the next (normally already bought while on special offer) printer. If everyone did the same the ink scam would come to a rapid end.

[@deanhaycox]

I’ve experienced this myself, they won’t allow you to use any other ink other than HP ink. It won’t let you print at all.

[@charlottejet4338]

Their ink prices are rediculous. I got so pissed off with HP and after many years of putting up with it, I binned my HP printer. I bought a Brother colour laser and never looked back.

[@simonbeasley989]

I got a Brother mono laser as I don't print photos and don't need colour. Had it 8 or 9 years, trouble free and no objection to my £12 third party cartridge.

[@charlottejet4338]

@@simonbeasley989 Spot on. What's interesting is we both went with Brother. I don't think I'll ever need another printer. Best £240 I've ever spent on a printer.

[@Pauldjreadman]

Funny an estate agent was on about this to me a few days ago while I was trying to get and get a rents property cleared.

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

I have a hp mfp. I bought it a few years ago. I was told at the time of purchase, that I will be able to use 3rd party toner refills. Which is why I bought the thing in the first place. Jump forward a year or two, and I am on my 3rd set of refills from a 3rd party seller. And one day, the printer did its usual updates then stopped working. A message displayed on the screen said that my toner refills were not recognised, and I needed to replace them with official supplies ONLY available from HP. I was in effect, blocked from using my printer, which had worked flawlessly with 3rd party toner for over 18months... because HP wanted me to only use their overpriced toner. After a bit of communication with the toner guy online, it was discovered that I could roll the update back to the previous version and magically, my toner was now perfectly fine. However the printer would update the next week later and I would be stuck with the error message again. This was eventually "fixed" by turning off auto updates, and blocking the printer from accessing the Internet. It works!

[@shekinah.a]

I had to undo the firmware update to an old one and prevent the printer from auto updating. Now i can continue using my 3rd party cartridges.

[@interabang]

I don't think HP have ever said third party cartridges will work in their machines. They are notorious for the price of ink however. I use one because I have a chrome book and had issues with connectivity previously. To avoid being shafted by them I refill the cartridges which works fine.

[@martinrwolfe]

The only thing HP could claim for 3rd party/refilled cartidges is that it invalidates the warrantee on the printer.

[@keancv]

Yes but each case is individual. What is their 'proof' that that specific user damaged that printer with that specific 'poor quality fake' cartridge? If I buy a car the maker cares zero where I buy the fuel for it

[@traderhooper]

I had this issue with another printer company. It stops people from using recycled printer cartridges.

[@DavidDudeney-w4h]

What's bothering me... If I buy a printer, I have statutory rights and the printer has to be of sufficient quality. if I buy printer in, I have statutory rights and the ink has to be of sufficient quality. HP has this 'instant ink' proposition. You pay a monthly subscription and HP keeps you supplied with ink. Prices seem to range from 99p per month up to £22.49 per month. But what do you get for that? It doesn't appear to be a specific amount of ink. Rather, for 99p a month, you are allowed to print 10 pages per month. For £22.49 you are allowed to print 700 pages per month. And there are various alternatives in between. What, then, are my statutory rights if I am paying a fee per page that I print? Do I have a right to expect that each page will be of sufficient quality? I should have thought that if you are paying 99p to print 10 pages a month and a couple come out badly, you might be gutted. Particularly if your page count is limited and you are not allowed to re-try printing until next month. I would love to know BlackBeltBarrister's view on this. If you pay for a service. That service being printing of a finite number of pages. Do you have a right to expect the print quality to be satisfactory? Do you have a claim if it is not? And from what you said in this video, do you have a right to make such a claim for 6 years from the time of the unsatisfactory print-out?

[@fredbloggs5902]

I’ve heard reports that Canon block scanning on their combined units when the ink runs out.

[@Electrowave]

I used to love HP printers but I stopped buying them when around mid 2000's my very expensive HP inkjet stopped working and came up with an error message which the manual told me meant it needed a new print head. I didn't think much of it, I'd had the printer two years and things go wrong, and a new head was £50. I was soon to discover that all four heads needed replacing at the same time, for a total cost of £200! This was very suspicious that all heads went on the same day. I later learned that the heads had an expiry date for two years from first use. I'm not one for replacing things before they are worn out so I replaced it with an Epson which lasted many years before it stopped working due to a saturated ink pad! Why can't there be a tray to remove the old ink pad and replace it with a new one? A whole printer written off because of an inky piece of felt and I get penalised for using a plastic bag in the supermarket. Unfortunately I remember a time when things were made to last, and I find the constant forking out to replace things these days very frustrating. When I was growing up we used to recycle things properly.

[@TheLeedsAppreciationSociety]

Oh and @BlackBeltBarrister, I'm sure I'm only one of many thousands who would love to hear your take on the met police shooting of those two dogs.