HS2 Scrapping: Another Betrayal of the UK's North!

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High Speed 2, commonly referred to as HS2, was envisioned as the UK's mega project that ultimately turned into a colossal disaster.
The original plan was for the HS2 line to be an extension of the HS1 line, forming a comprehensive Y-shaped network that would link the North, Midlands, and South of the UK and provide connectivity to 8 out of the 10 largest cities in the UK. Regrettably, the result was a disjointed project that not only failed to integrate with HS1 but also neglected to connect the South and North regions as initially anticipated.
First, in November 2021, Phase 2b east to Leeds was cancelled, along with the decision not to build a full high-speed east-west line connecting Manchester to Leeds. This decision was justified by the claim that the project could be delivered more efficiently and at a lower cost.
Then, in June 2022, the 21 km stretch of new track to the West Coast Main Line at Golbourne, a part of Phase 2b West, was also cancelled.
And finally, recently, Prime Minister, Mr. Rishi Sunak, made the decision to axe the entire Phase 2 of HS2! This move was prompted by weakening of the economic case for the project, in the first line, by the doubling of costs since the project was initially approved over a decade ago...
In this video we analyze Sunak's decision to cancel Phase 2 in detail, including it's far reaching implications, and give our view of the situation.
Share your thoughts with us in the comment section!
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#infrastructure #uk #railway

[@digimanga]

Man this just feels so depressing how good a project this could have been, being ruined by the terrible people in charge and holding Britain back for decades further.

[@lordgemini2376]

It'll get built eventually, makes too much sense not to. Just 15 years later than it would've in the first place 😔

[@hellojasonsuresh]

@@lordgemini2376 and even more expensive with the years of work wasted by then. They spent at least two years dithering over cancelling the Leeds leg - that's two years that could have been used to actually build it

[@rockets4kids]

When the country that invented the railroad forgets how to build railroads...

[@hedgehog3180]

A summery of recent British history.

[@the.mystictraveller]

Should've let Chinese engineers build it ten years ago when Beijing offered..

[@johnmyers8633]

It's crazy how HS2 makes the California High Speed Rail Project look competent.

[@Gnefitisis]

England is incompetent- just look at Brexit! Ha!

[@4-SeasonNature]

Aren't we Californians pleased with our own half-baked, nearly abandoned HSR?

[@Gnefitisis]

@@4-SeasonNature How nearly abandoned when a record number of people are building it now? Over 1600 a day!

[@lassepeterson2740]

I think it's worse in California because nobody who's anybody wants to go to Fresno fast .

[@KingFinnch]

phase 1 connects two cities: one with 10M people and one with 3M, it's still a hugely worthwhile project

[@johng5474]

It has been a disaster caused by politicians interfering, raising costs and then complaining about how much it was going to cost. They should have started in the north and worked south.

[@doujinflip]

That might have raised costs though, because the south end would have just grown in acquisition and construction costs in the intervening time.

[@dez7800]

This happens in Canada too.. The Quebec City tramway was stopped because of political meddling which caused the costs to explode to unacceptable levels.... I guess I just want to comfort you in that it doesn't only happen in UK lol

[@doujinflip]

That deliberate sabotage of effective governance seems to be the strategy of political conservatives when they need to justify their continued rule. We have a similar problem in the US with the Republican Party, whose platform involves wanting to replace agnostic government services with profiteering corporations and ideological evangelical churches.

[@arionodhanis]

FAT MAN MUST NOT OR FORBIDDEN TO MARRY, FAT MAN CAN NOT MAKE HYPERLOOP, NO RISK = NO WIFE

[@gwrydd]

That’s impossible. If they started in the north they couldn’t just stop it, our government has it made it very clear the north is of no interest to them

[@czechmatebro]

This is so stupid :( Not only did they cancell the 2nd phase, but selling the land? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING??? I hope similar thing doesn't happen to my country too 🇨🇿

[@RailwaysExplained]

This action will tie any future government’s hands for revival of HS2 towards North. We do not know if this has ever happened, which is happening now. The obtained right of way for the railway line is being abandoned and sold off. And anyone who has dealt with land acquisition for transport projects knows how difficult it is.

[@bcb7655]

This government should be tried for embezzlement.

[@Dqtube]

I am not optimistic about projects in the Czech Republic. NIMBies in high politics, bad management in SŽ and cartels among contractors.

[@czechmatebro]

@@Dqtube NIMBYs in Czechia are some of the worst out there. For example blocking the construction of the Plzeň - Munich line because they have a garden there, where they grow pickles. Or in my friend's village there is one asshole that is blocking the repair of a bridge that would let children cross the river and take the bus to school. But I think that the Brno-Břeclav HS line will get built because most of it is running parallel with the current line. The Moravská Brána line I think will get at least partially built and Germany will pressure us to get the Prague-Dresden line built. But I'm not sure about other lines' future. I think that SŽ is definitely not perfect but neither is it terrible. Certainly better than most people give it credit for

[@MikeWillSee]

​@@RailwaysExplainedin fairness I don't think the sale process has actually started yet meaning there is still time to campaign against it. I've heard that The Good Law Project is threatening the government with a lawsuit over the cancellation north of Birmingham, because of the fact that the decision was made unilaterally by the PM with no input from Parliament, despite the fact that Parliament had already passed legislation for this section!

[@Brapish]

Nobody in Yorkshire was surprised when the Leeds branch got canned and we (with the rest of the north) weren't surprised when the Manchester leg got canned 🙄

[@WallaseyanTube]

There was no value in HS2 going to Yorkshire given that Manchester is the capital of the region. There is no world-standing city in Yorkshire, with Manchester still in the running.

[@Brapish]

@@WallaseyanTube Given that one of the main reasons for the railway was to rebalance the economy, that is simply not true. This Manchester centric attitude is just going to leave us with another London in the North 😂

[@arionodhanis]

PAT AT RISK = NO RISK = NO WIFE

[@tomtalk24]

Look on the bright side. You wont see house prices go up like they did for the innocent South East. "London by the sea" my arse, fucking tourists the lot of them.

[@davidcarthy9077]

Manchester is on the other side of a mountain range to Yorkshire. ​@WallaseyanTube

[@jasperjenkin6645]

HS2 could have been the revival of the entire rail network in the UK. Governemntal issues have made this just another failure of the shitstorm which has been the conservative government.

[@Force05289]

And the “conservative” government isn’t even conservative. They keep letting in thousands of migrants wasting money on that! Instead of letting migrants in let’s build HS2!

[@michaelimbesi2314]

Looking over at you guys from across the pond (Virginia specifically), it’s not just the Tories. Basically every government you’ve had since 1945 has been catastrophically incompetent, mostly because they’ve convinced themselves they need to micromanage everything to make sure it works perfectly, and in the process end up making sure it doesn’t work at all. Basically, Britain’s biggest problem is that its own government won’t get out of the way.

[@Aendavenau]

@@michaelimbesi2314 Except stuff like this can ONLY be done by the Government and other Governments can do it (for exemple Spain, France, Japan, China....) so obviously the UK is doing something wrong. Its not in the "nature" of Governments to be incompetent in a well runned country...

[@jasperjenkin6645]

@@michaelimbesi2314 pre privatisation the mishandling of the railways by the government wasn't as big of an issue, although it did happen notable in the apt prototype. The fact that br could subsidise its unprofitable branches with lucrative cross tunnel freight meant that it could carry on nethertheless, however now the railways are on a tipping point which could lead to a serious incident. I recon there will be a serious incident and that will be the turning point. Unfortunately the scotrail hst incident had little to no effect on the government's view of the railways

[@walterfillingham]

As I work in North Sea oil and gas, it’s is so infuriating to see how London has just breathlessly wasted all the sheer vast amounts of North Sea oil taxation they have made since the mid 1970’s. This is absolutely symbolic of all that is wrong with the United Kingdom. Living in Aberdeen an oil rich city we can barely fill in potholes in our roads and forced to travel on 50 year old (new) trains, whilst we look at our neighbours in Stavanger in Norway and see the comparison. Absolutely disgusting seeing only London benefiting again and again and again

[@robertcartwright4374]

But don't you see? It's important that rich Britons become even richer. Har har!

[@user-pw5ls9ti2j]

Greetings from London! Whatever they’ve wasted the money on, it’s certainly not us - our roads are full of potholes too! 😂

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

@@robertcartwright4374I see that they copied the worst elements of the USA.

[@electro_sykes]

How else would they move everyone into stupid 15 minute cities for government control

[@l.b.3416]

Sunak said he would invest the money in regional projects in the north so idk what your propblem is. What gain you would have had by HS2? None.

[@aryantotanoto2307]

As United Kingdom struggled to build high speed railways in South East Asia already operate and running Indonesia 350 kph from Jakarta to Bandung, Laos 210 kph from Botan to Vientiane, Thailand 300 kph from Korat to Bangkok

[@KingFinnch]

the uk is crisscrossed with many railways that run at 200km/h (125m/h), we just spent all the effort on upgrades instead of new lines

[@CLechleitner42]

HS2 is named badly, it's about capacity, not speed. I'm sure there would have been ways to spend less money by planning smarter and less shiny. But even the full 100 billion would be OK IMO for a decade-long project. Countries like Austria and Switzerland both spend multiple billions on railway infrastructure every year, and they are almost 10 times smaller than the UK (and construction is more complicate over here due to all the mountains). So yes, the cancellation of HS2 Phase 2 is a crime against the North. Unless the safed money is invested in major railway capacity improvements there after all. Of course it will probably go into more highway lanes, because "one more lane will solve the problem" ...

[@matthewturnock8725]

Nex time we get one of these major infrastructure projects (if we even do), construction should absolutely start in the north and work its way down. With how much special treatment london gets I can guarantee in that case the last leg won't get cancelled!

[@Croz89]

If it was built earlier and faster we could have saved a fair bit on inflation costs by borrowing when interest rates were lower.

[@mikefish8226]

This is the thing, you're right it was about capacity, the West Coast Mainline is full. We needed HS2 to take pressure of the West Coast Mainline and allow more local services.

[@acommenter]

The name killed it in a way, It prompted the claim "It's only 20 minutes faster to Birmingham" in the people who opposed the project IMO it should have been called something vaguer like "next gen railways".

[@matthewturnock8725]

@@acommenter Or something more along the lines of linking major destinations, since for me that was what I was most excited for - direct fast trains between cross country northern destinations like Manchester and Leeds (which has always been a bastard of a journy to do by rail). And if we actually did the HS1 link you'd have a direct high speed line from Manchester etc into France and the rest of Europe - the potential HS2 had and what we've ended up with (which we might not even get at this rate) is just so disappointing

[@michaelkinsella1559]

The total disregard for investment outside London is a disgrace.

[@paullangford8179]

The disregard for investment IN London is also a disgrace.

[@alexturlais8558]

Its a false economy to cancel part of it. They have fixed costs (staff, consultants, equipment ect) which they still need for Phase 1, so itll just make the price per kilometre much higher.

[@Bigheadcase]

38 billion pissed away on the track and trace fiasco which no doubt made it's way into the corrupt coffers of our financially corrupt MPs.

[@hedgehog3180]

That might very well be intentional to make the project look worse.

[@StevesTechAndTransit]

Yes, I see it as basically blowing away 90% of the benefits to save 40% of the cost. Absolute economic madness!

[@Hession0Drasha]

As a comparison, Turin to Venice will be the same sort of distance, as southampton to york. Through an even more densley populated country than the uk, and far more challenging terrain. That doesn't even include the Milan to Naples route 😑

[@BoraCM]

What are you on about? Italy is larger with a smaller population, thus making it less densely populated. I'd also imagine that the Po Valley makes it pretty easy to build track, compared to Southern England, which has hilly terrain in places.

[@Hession0Drasha]

@@BoraCM Italy has areas where people live, and areas where no one lives. The places people live, are more densley populated in italy, than the places people live in the uk. Averaging everything out, over the whole area of both, isn't helpfull.

[@fishettibean]

Ever since they scraped HS1 to HS2 link, this project was doomed to fail. They need to link London Heathrow and Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport via high speed rail. This gives people the choice of major airport hubs without using short hop airline, and the train could travel 5mins more in france, and be in Disneyland paris. Also for these heathrow to Charles journeys, they could use Stratford International which has been unused for International traval since the 2012 games.

I don't understand how this route will be positive. Why would you want to specifically connect Heathrow and CDG when Paris and London are already connected, and the rest of the world is already accessible independently via these two hubs? When the Eurostar to Disneyland existed, there was a stop at CDG that was not heavily used. However, connecting Heathrow to a high-speed rail that connects to other parts of the country will make sense (as it is done with CDG), but this should go hand in hand with a long-awaited airport extension.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

There never was going to be a connection between HS2 to HS1, what for, HS2 is a domestic high speed lne from the North and Birminham to Lonndon and HS1 is a internatioal link Railway from London to Europe, niether line has anything in common

[@mikefish8226]

​@@peterwilliamallen1063Connecting HS1 and HS2 was costed at less than £1b. The reason to join them would be allowing trains from the north without changing normal and sleeper trains.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@mikefish8226 Sorry mate I live in Birmingham the centre of HS2 andare interested in Railways and work on the Railway's and I have never seen any mention any where of connecting HS1 to HS2 exept on Yout tube, as no one in their mutitudes at the moment travel from Manchester and Birmingham to Paris by train, why would a slow trip across London make any difference when there are perfectly god cheap flight from Birmingham and Manchester to the continent which are more direct and qicker. They were going to trial a sleeper train from Manchester to France via the Channel tunnel, but t was scrapped after the coches were built and they now run for VIA ail in Canada on their Rocky Mountain Express

[@mikefish8226]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 It was proposed and rejected. Hopefully a less stupid government in the future will resurrect the idea. The general reasoning is Londoncentric thinking. The "duh, just get off at Euston and walk to St Pancreas", ignoring that going to add at least an hour to the journey and forgoing any kind of night train to the continent. It short-term thinking, ignorant of the possibilities of rail travel and typical of governments both Labour and Conservative. On flights Vs trains, you could say that about any long journey. I fly to London to get connecting services, so why build HS2. The argument is environmental, the argument is the connectivity which rail gives you.

[@neilchisholm797]

I grew up in England and left in 1990. Part of the reason I left was the governments shortsightedness. In the following 33 years it’s not learnt any lessons and if anything is even more short sighted. I look and wonder at the way the country works. It sure doesn’t work in the same way that it did in my childhood. Who took the Great out of Great Britain? It appears they have become so short sighted and unable to manage large infrastructure projects. Nor can the cost them properly. Australia has its issues but thankfully is not the basket case that the UK has become post Brexit. It saddens me so much to see a once highly respected country turn itself into the poor man of Europe and a source of amusement worldwide. Some reflection on where things went wrong and whether they can be rectified might restore the UKs standing in the world.

[@kilgoretrout3]

Brexit was the UK's coffin.

[@R.-.]

Nothing to do with Brexit. We have globalist WEF puppets in control, and they cannot allow Britain to be successful outside of the EU. Hence their puppet politicians are tasked with running the country as deniably inept as possible. I would issue a simple warning to anyone buying HS2 land that a future pro-Brexit government may compulsory purchase the land for the exact amount it is sold for - or permit a privately funded HS2 company to do so.

[@Gnefitisis]

​@@kilgoretrout3 Brexit was the death throws of the dying old fuckers that stood home and complained about "the death of the Empire." England fucked it because they are short sighted, bone in the brain.

[@neilchisholm797]

@@HummusLad I moved to Melbourne, lived there for 13 yrs and now live in Ballarat in country Victoria.

[@tomhoworth1685]

It's called the conservative party. For some reason we've decided they were best to run the country for 21 of the last 33 years. And they've spent that time draining the public coffers into their own pockets. There was a brief bit of optimism from 1997-2008. Miss those days.

[@neilgwynne5158]

Few things to add. The prime minister has wanted to cancel it for years. He is a hawish billionaire thatcherite who doesn't believe in public investment. He did his own economic appraisal after 13 years of development and cross party support and made a personal decision to cancel it. The fact that something that has had parliamentary support for years can just been cancelled by the PM in one decision shows how broken our political system is. The 'alternatives' were developed straight after the cancellation announcement as the backlash was so fierce . The prime minster assumed cancelling it would be popular and it wasn't so made up a lot of schemes to try and head off the backlash. They don't exist and will never happen. The worst thing is. He announced the cancellation it in Manchester which would have benefitted from it. You cannot separate out infra from politics. This decision was made by a prime minister and government based in SE and come from a narrow social background of wealth and privileges. They look to the US for inspiration not europe so developing public transport is a anaethema. Lastly they don't really understand the deep polarisation due to our unbalanced economy with all economic development focused on London. They had no idea cancelling spend in they North would generate a backlash

[@maximusg88]

Thanks for the video! The North is really screwed over here

[@RailwaysExplained]

We completely agree!

[@lws7394]

The north was screwed by scrapping the Northern Powerhouse Line ! 2h12 for the 321km of London to Manchester is not bad . The time it t noe akes for 100km from Liverpool to Leeds is not acceptable. with the NPL Leeds, Manchester, Licerpool, Sheffield would have become one comme labour market of 6-7 mln ..

[@Bigheadcase]

The North is only there to service the needs of the clowns who run the circus in London.

[@caliburn50a]

no change there then

[@Bungle-UK]

How is it? East - west links are much more important to the north than connecting it to London.

[@MancAlB]

From the perspective of the north of England, this cancellation is yet another slap in the face from London. What you left out about the network north plan is that Manchester has been labelled where Preston is and 85% of the projects listed have either been finished or are under construction. A reminder that if you moved the Elizabeth line to the north of England it would have successfully connected up: - Liverpool - Warrington - Manchester - Stockport - Sheffield But instead we’re stuck with late trains, old rolling stock and crumbling infrastructure.

[@MrStarfishPrime]

You need to start organising a Northern regional party, in the moment you get enough seats in Westminster you'll get results. But if your PMs are no more than party HQ yes men, you are doomed.

[@Teesbrough]

It’s even worse than that. Cancellation of HS2 means a reduction in rail capacity for the North. As explained in the video, the HS2 trains are limited to 110mph on conventional track as opposed to 125mph for the current fleet of Pendolinos. Altogether, it’s a nonsensical decision, designed to shore up the Tory vote amongst people who don’t want to understand the issues.

[@_.seraphina._]

​@@MrStarfishPrime Such a party indeed exists! It's called the Northern Independence Party (NIP) and I am a member

[@gwrydd]

The funniest part is the savings on hs2 phase 2 that was supposed to go to the north is now being used in London

[@alanrobertson9790]

Labour will get in within a year, will be interesting if they resurrect it, probably not their highest priority. Still I think it will be completed eventually.

[@timnewman1172]

I's truly remarkable how conservatives in both the U.S. and U.K. can epically fail miserably at accomplishing anything worthwhile...

[@hedgehog3180]

@@timnewman1172 It's a core part of conservative policy, if nothing new is made then nothing changes and no one questions the status quo.

[@stevens1041]

As much as I want this project done, didn't one high ranking member of Labour state that they wouldn't reverse this decision? That surprised me, when I heard it.

[@Sexyoldgeraldorivera]

What about a party other than Labour or the Tories? Aren't they the same two parties that keep you poor no matter who's in?

[@alanrobertson9790]

@@Sexyoldgeraldorivera I'm not voting for the 2 main parties but it looks a cert that Labour will get in next.

[@giovannigarcia9972]

I'm not surprised, it was only ever about having a shiny new train from London to Birmingham. The northern legs were only ever to keep people happy. The fact that Birmingham Curzon St. was a terminus station rather than a through station despite the fact that it was supposed to be the centre, not the end, of the network tells you everything you need to know about the true intention of the project. It should've been built in the opposite order, with HS3 (Liverpool-Manchester Airport-Manchester-Leeds) coming first, that would've made an actual difference for the north

[@ZachGrant23]

HS2 could have revolutionized the UK in terms of flexible work, travel would have been more booming and locals economies would have benefitted from the reduced capacity on the existing lines and having new people from south to north and other way round! This line could have united some of the biggest cities.

[@RailwayNetworks]

What an interesting sentence (title) for the domestic politics of Great Britain, which Rishi Sunak should think about... Thanks for the video, the topic is well covered as always...

[@RailwaysExplained]

Thank you 😀

[@davidhill3724]

the selling of the land is criminal. I understand not going forward with phase two at this time. But not preserving the right away for future expansion is beyond stupid

[@vylbird8014]

It's not stupid. It's just malicious. The conservative party may not be in power that much longer, so they need to entrench their decisions to ensure their influence long outlives their time in government.

[@WallaseyanTube]

The railway is not going to be built, so there is no reason to hold onto the land.

[@vylbird8014]

@@WallaseyanTube Rather circular. The railway is not going to be built, because the land is being sold, so there is no reason to hold on to it. Without the land sale, there would still be some slim hope of reversing the cancellation. What one government does, the next can undo.

[@WallaseyanTube]

@@vylbird8014 No, the construction of the railway has been cancelled and thus they are in the process of selling-off the land that is no longer required. There is nothing circular about it. The cancellation is not going to be reversed because the project is not deliverable within the allocated budget. The rail industrial have had nearly a decade to get the costs under control and in scope but they have consistently and repeatedly failed to do this. Part of the reason is they stated that the railway could be delivered for a price that was acceptable to Parliament but that price seriously under estimated - for whatever reason - the true cost of delivery.

[@vylbird8014]

@@WallaseyanTube I think you miss the point. The cancellation is a political decision, and such decisions can be reversed. Especially if Labour wins a majority at the next election - a scenario that, though still unlikely, it not entirely implausible. Perhaps the project could be restructured, or put on hold for some years to await better financial times, or the schedule delayed, or the need for tunnels in the most expensive sections reassessed. What we see here is a burning of bridges: A policy to make absolutely certain that there is no possibility of going back, however remote. Instead of mothballing a half-finished project for the future, destroy what has been achieved already. All that remains of HS2's original plan now is a Birmingham to London line, and that is of little use because it no longer has the connections further north that would feed in to it.

[@SeverityOne]

The UK's approach to railways can be expressed in three words: Tories hate trains. That hideously expensive Chiltern's tunnel? Where do you think that a lot of influential friends of Tory MPs have their grand homes, and don't want a high-speed train in their backyards? By the way, this is not a call for nationalisation, or that Labour would do a better job. Consecutive UK governments, whether Labour or Tory, have made a mess of their railway system ever since the war. The basic problem is that railways are considered a political issue in the UK, rather than one of transportation. There is a lot more that I could say, but it would inevitably end up in a political argument. Let me just say this: you get what you vote for.

[@SuperMikado282]

What if you never vote?

[@SeverityOne]

@@SuperMikado282 Then you get what other people vote for.

[@SuperMikado282]

Yes, unfortunately.

[@SuperMikado282]

The Labour Party was just as bad.

[@SeverityOne]

@@SuperMikado282 Did you read this bit? "Consecutive UK governments, whether Labour or Tory, have made a mess of their railway system ever since the war."

[@FlorianHWave]

It's so sad that in the West, these projects always take decades to build and then explode in costs and often fail, meanwhile the Chinese built the largest high speed rail network in the world in just 10 years.

[@doujinflip]

It helps that in China the state owns all the land and can eject tenants as convenient to the national government. Having unified technical standards helps a lot too. However the network is hemorrhaging money because the passenger and mail traffic it serves doesn't induce nearly the amount of taxable economic activity it needs to be worth the operating costs. It'd be a different story had all that rail carried much more profitable freight instead.

[@user-mx4oq5ww5b]

@@doujinflip Infrastructure should never be looked for a profit. This is the reason why HSRs are failing in the West. The high-speed rail network in China may be bleeding money right now, but surely not in the future. Even Shinkanses took several years to work at full capacity and now Japan is renowned with it`s convenient and punctual HSRs. And consider that most of the chinese airspace is closed for airlines the chinese citizens don`t have many other choices for high-speed travel. Regarding freight, China is one of the biggest contributors to railway freight traffic. Thanks to HSRs more of the conventional lines will be used for transporting goods. Overall, a win-win situation

[@markb9983]

By "west" you mean the UK. Spain is in the west and in the last decade it has built the best high speed rail network outside of China. Thousands of kM built in the time it took tory crooks to build just 70km. Why? Because everything tories do is about enriching themselves and their donor class. Now they have gotten their hands on billions worth of land which they are selling to their mates at knockdown prices. Elect crooks, expect to be robbed.

[@FallenLeavesBackToRoots]

​@@doujinflipDoes your highway system generate a profit?

[@doujinflip]

It doesn't directly, like nearly all infrastructure. But the Interstates do pay itself off even without tolls from all the taxes eventually charged from the constant flow of freight loads and working commuters, whereas the HSR customer base is much more limited to irregular travel and final-transaction mail parcels -- Visits and e-commerce by itself doesn't generate enough fapiao at all their destinations to cover the massive operating expenses.

[@Croz89]

Are the Chiltern hills considered "challenging" to tunnel through? I thought chalk was considered a fairly easy rock for TBM's to dig out, though I believe sandstone is even easier.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

The problem is not the easiness of digging, but the fragility due to hard-to-detect dissolution features in the chalk. Sinkholes have appeared on the surface this year and they seem unable to accurately predict where they need to stabilize the walls because of water-damaged sections in the chalk until it starts crumbling.

[@Croz89]

@@eljanrimsa5843 Ah, thanks for letting me know! Though I bet it's still less challenging than tunneling through central London!

[@MrStarfishPrime]

Spain has built a 25km tunnel below the Asturian mountains for the high speed connection between Asturias and Castille.

[@iangodfrey4518]

@@eljanrimsa5843 It is certainly challenging for a country that has seen its national skills under-appreciated, under-invested in and offshored for decades, and the intellectual capabilities of leadership decline precipitously over the same period. Doesn't help when your Prime Minister is a rootless cosmopolitan internationalist banker, who fully intended to move to the US for work before he accidently fell into the Prime Minister position. Doesn't help that he does not understand science and engineering - like the rest of the Establishment. Doesn't help that he is an Indian, with no allegiance to Britain's native people either.

[@FERNAMTBERLIN]

In the UK it’s always London, London, London. Unfortunately nothing new.

[@tommcmanamon8327]

32 miles of tunnels through the home counties (NIMBYS) and vanity bridges are the reason why HS2 is so over budget. The 20 million in the North of England have been ignored again. HS2 is only half a job now. Levelling up is a joke in England.

[@deXXXXter2]

Insanely stupid decisions in UK, but the plan was bad from the beginning, with not enough phasing, slow planning and progress, etc... So Y was reduced to small i... In Poland we also just started very similar project with Y high speed lines between Warsaw, Łódź, Poznań and Wrocław - tunnel in my city of Łódź just started being built, with line between Łódź and Warsaw just before signing construction agreements - and I hope new government won't mess with it. Thankfully we have better phasing and project is going forward quicker, so there shouldn't be as much difference between cost estimates and actual spending. I hope...

[@RailwaysExplained]

We are aware of that. After our cooperation with CPK, we became very good friends with some people from that company.

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

Land acquisition is the most difficult thing in infrastructure projects. Indonesia HSR had to be postponed for 1 year just because of land acquisition. selling government land should be a crime

[@Dqtube]

I still don't understand how they achieved this price ? How could they be more expensive per mil than CAHSR where they have more expensive land, labor, almost no experience with rail projects and big money from the oil and automotive industries lobbying against it.

[@MikeWillSee]

It's mainly an engineering thing; HS2 has a lot more tunnelling than CaHSR for a start. It is also an entirely new right-of-way which doesn't share with any other lines and includes several brand new city centre stations. There are also elements of the scope which many would argue should not be included in the HS2 price tag, such as an upgrade to the existing London Underground station at Euston, which had previously been planned to be funded by Crossrail 2 (before that was scrapped). The way it's been contracted out doesn't help, with a LOT of outsourcing and use of small-medium enterprises - I'd argue this isn't necessarily a bad thing but it does add to the overall cost. The final point is that the cost 'increases' have only become more apparent as more and more of the detailed design is finalised meaning the exact costs can be calculated better. Detailed design of CaHSR is not as far progressed as it is for HS2 so there's a possibility that costs are being under-estimated there too.

[@neilgwynne5158]

For a few reasons. The government has messed around with the scope for 10 years. Euston station still doesn't have a defined scope. Treasury wanted no risk so has put in contacts with 30 year liabilities for contractors and so has paid extra. It's heavily tunneled for the first 50 miles out of London with very high land prices. The section of Californian HSR is built in nearly open country. Lastly inflation has added a lot to the original baseline cost

[@vylbird8014]

@@MikeWillSeeThe tunnelling itself is a political decision. The way the UK plans major projects like this, local government has a lot of say in rail going through their area, and there's a strong NIMBY effect: Local authorities don't want the visual impact of new rail and disruption to sensitive areas, so they tend to push for tunnelling even when there isn't strictly a need for it.

[@EuroDC1990]

I'm entirely in favour of High Speed Rail but HS2 has been doomed to failure by successive governments' complete inability to understand its purpose and commit to one real plan. HS2 was initially planned travel west from London to serve Heathrow but use a north facing Euston station to do so which was an odd idea from the start. When they realised that serving Heathrow wasn't possible they didn't change other elements of the plan accordingly and instead decided to keep going, at great expense, through the Chilterns which didn't want it and wouldn't be served by it. At Birmingham the plan is to have a Birmingham Interchange station which isn't integrated with the existing Birmingham International station and seemingly exists to serve nobody - those traveling to/from London would use a London airport so why serve a local airport on a high speed intercity railway? Add to that the station at Curzon Street which is not only unconnected to the existing stations but is a terminus station meaning that trains can't use HS2 and continue onwards from Birmingham. Building terminus stations is a mistake that was made in the 1800s - why repeat it now? The station at Crewe was sensible in an unusual move for the government but has now been cancelled despite it being a place the could have been a sensible end point for a scaled back high speed line with provision for future expansion later. Manchester Airport station, much like Birmingham Interchange is a bit pointless as the areas that need better connections to Manchester Airport aren't London and Birmingham but the rest of the North. Terminus stations at Manchester Piccadilly which akready suffers from a lack of capacity for through services was a ridiculous idea. Much better to have through platforms and let trains pass through Manchester and continue from there up to Scotland to Improve those journeys and make them proper intercity standard. The East Midlands station at Toton, completely unconnected to anything was just... Well I don't even know what to say on that one. Words fail me. Should have either chosen one East Midlands City to serve (ideally Nottingham), used East Midlands Parkway (with excellent connections to all East Midlands cities) or, and here's a really radical idea, build a station at East Midlands Airport which has lots of room around it for expansion, abandon the third runway at Heathrow and instead create a new national hub at East Midlands right in the centre of the country? Sheffield should obviously have been served directly, it's a bit city and desperately in need of investment and Leeds, like Manchester, should have had through platforms to allow onwards running up to the NorthEast/Scotland as going north from Leeds is a real pain at the minute. That would allow Leeds to be on the London-Edinburgh mainline as it should be and would allow the ECML south of Leeds/York to operate a bit more of a self contained service. Of course some of that would have been more expensive but scrapping Birmingham Interchange and Manchester Airport stations would have helped and frankly if London can have a brand new railway that's cost £18bn and the government is fine with that it's utterly atrocious that a new line to serve the whole country at £100bn (or let's say even £200bn to really get it right) is considered unreasonable. What baffles and angers me even more though is the fact they've continued building for years without any idea of what they've actually been building and what the 'finished' thing might look like, rather than stopping, asking a few questions and coming up with a real integrated rail plan. What this country really needs isn't a new high speed line, it's a new high capacity network, and the way I see it there's two ways of Acheiving that: 1) an X shaped network focused Birmingham with spurs in every durection building out over time towards the NorthWest, Yorkshire and the NorthEast, Cardiff and the SouthWest and London and the South Coast to fully integrate current ECML, WCML and XC services 2) a 'reverse f' shaped network broadly following the M1 up to Milton Keynes, East Midlands, Sheffield, Leeds, Teesside, Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow and with spurs to Birmingham and to Manchester/Liverpool with provision for future expansion of the network from Birmingham to Cardiff/SouthWest, fully integrating MML and ECML services and integrating large parts of WCML and XC services. as well.

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

The decision to not go ahead with the northern section was made in 2020. Obviously I cannot divulge my source but I was informed in July 2020 that this northern section would not happen. The UK government just didn't make it common knowledge.

[@Gnefitisis]

Then why didn't it make public knowledge until 3 years later?

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

I suspect because of the political outcry it would have caused at the time.@@Gnefitisis

[@conradharcourt8263]

I think most people were aware that the Government were looking for any excuse to cancel the entire project if they could.

[@tstuart7333]

Extremely well executed information. Delivered clear and precise. I have learnt more from this video delivery than I have done from the UK government or developers. Thank you

[@Lorre982]

Come on, how is difficult to build a rail way on a flat land! France Italy Austria and Swiss are drilling the Alps but the one time "mighty" UK is un able to built in flatland?

[@TrevorWilliams-fq8mg]

The problem in the UK is complying with planning conditions and statutory bodies. For example providing a power supply to a trackside substation required a 6 mile connection traversing rivers, a motorway and a railway.

[@magnusturner1893]

The Network North plan did state that a government franchise would be first have to be established to sell of the land, with the selling of land set to begin in the summer of 2024.

[@Croz89]

Probably will be some politicians trying to delay it until after the next GE, with the expectation Labour will reverse the policy.

[@oberstleutnant787]

Don't expect much from the poms on the rail construction. On the other hand look at the Chinese, their total high speed rail length is now 46,100 km, with an additional increase of 2300 km this year alone.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

At least POMs when they have a High Speed train such as the HST Inter City 125 train it does 125 MPH not like the Austrailian Government building a HST train under contract from British Rail the XPT an exact copy of the HST 125 and do not do nothing with the track and all the XPT can do is 90 MPH

[@acommenter]

I don't understand how people who claim to be "financially responsible" would pay 2/3rds the cost for 1/3rd of the track and about 1% of the utility.

[@MrStarfishPrime]

This government is incapable of organising a piss-up in a brewery.

[@RD-ht6go]

As we all know UK actually consists of 5 nations, England, N Ireland, Scotland, Wales and London.

[@markbooth1117]

If the UK Government were ever serious about this, they should have started it in the North not London, but as usual Northern projects cancelled and we get the crumbs and have to make do with what we have.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

When you build things like HS2 or Motorways you do not start at one end only, you build from both ends and in between which is what is happening with the HS2 construction, it is being built from it's Headquarters in Birmingham, North to Lichfield and the West Coast Main Line and South towards London, it Is being built from London North towards Birmingham and the line is being constructed in between so the whole line is being constructed together, but what is so special about the North and Manchester that HS2 should of been started there are built South in Birmingham when the HS2 station is opened in the City Centre it will be connected to Birmingham Moor Street Station to make a Midland Rail Hub

[@xymaryai8283]

ah, High Speed Rail seems forever limited to EU, China and Japan... no one else knows how to work on such infrastructure

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

This wasn't a lack of knowledge. This is simply not wanting to commit. The knowledge how to build it is there that's how they build the first section. The "knowledge" missing is functional politics.

[@DevynCairns]

There are many other countries at this point who have relied on the three places you mentioned to implement a high speed line locally and many have opened. The problem is dysfunctional politics, not inability to construct something that works

[@sidex4]

Point is, if the UK had actually imported the technology both china and Japan had been using, it would have been faster and way less expensive as it had become.​@DevynCairns

[@GenericUrbanism]

And Indonesia

​​@@dennyroozeboom4795there is still a huge elephant in the room, why is it so expensive to build such a project? The London to Birmingham route is evaluated at £55 billion for just 134 miles. In comparison, the route between Tours to Bordeaux, opened in 2017, was an 188 mile line built for £7 billion. I know, the areas are not as densely populated, with vastly different infrastructures. Maybe that is the problem then and I can't help but think that this cost is partially linked with the lack of experience in planning and building such immense infrastructures.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

I don't understand how a figure can be put in front of elected officials to vote on, and that figure can end up being a laughable fantasy, and nobody gets punished for that. How are the people who made the original budget for this project not in prison right now?!?

[@conradharcourt8263]

Inflation, demands by NIMBYs for unnecessary tunnels, increased interest rates, increased import and labour costs due to Brexit. It all adds up and as you know almost every major project in the World costs more than at first estimated.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

@@conradharcourt8263 Bullshit. First, you cannot possibly add up the amounts you're pedantically itemizing here right now and come up with a 600% overrun -- and as someone who has run a present value calculation or two I'm comfortable letting you say whatever you think you can as a reply. That's just utter, steaming, bullshit. Second, this is not the first time that a professional cost calculation has had to deal with interest rates and NIMBY; even if that were the explanation, the people who put the original number in front of the government should still go to prison for gross negligence in failing to take them into account. Seriously, friend, you've got a real problem with your Dunning-Kruger impulse to pedantic replies: You're literally talking bollocks here. Utter, steaming, bullshit.

[@RayAviationYalla-Habibi]

The Elizabeth line managed to open under the cross rail network

[@Quickshot0]

I guess the most optimistic take one can have on the entire matter is, is that at least there will be a high speed line out of London from this effort. And the London area is probably one of the more expensive and difficult areas to work on such lines. So optimistically if a new government ever did want to start a new high speed line project, at least they wouldn't have to deal much with London anymore, beyond perhaps connecting HS1 and HS2. Still pretty disappointing though, even if a course change happens, it will all be many years later now, especially with the land sales.

[@Hiro_Trevelyan]

Maybe the mistake was to build too much, with too much being included in one project. I don't think the restructuration of train stations in Lyon was included in the price of the Paris-Lyon LGV, despite being part of it though I may be completely wrong about that. Train station renovations are good, but they shouldn't have put it in the price of HS2. And HS2 was cut is so many different phases, it could have been turned into HS3 at some point (for the branch to Leeds for example), thus preventing the total collapse of the entire project when shit hit the fan. Now there's barely an HS2 project at all. Also, stop listening to every single NIMBY. NIMBYs are killing economies, while being hypocrites that only care if infrastructure serves their selfish interests.

[@markb9983]

It was cancelled because doing so provided a unique opportunity for tory donors to acquire billions of pounds worth of land at knockdown prices. That is now precisely what is happening. They bankrupted Britain morally and then economically and in the aftermath have made a fortune. Follow the Money!

[@Gnefitisis]

​@@markb9983Yeah just look at Brexit. It's a shit show.

[@tensa7132]

I don’t get it… Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to scratch the London phase entirely and start phase 1 in the north? Surely it would have been good PR to focus on northern towns, save money on land acquisition and forget about significantly less useful and less desirable route from Old Oak Common. Not like London is in desperate need for it.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

What is so important about Northern Towns that HS2 should of started there

[@Devillunar]

Who would've guessed that progressing slow would lead to higher costs. It's not like the workers are paid monthly and the resources get more expensive due to inflation (!). Big projects need big funding up front. Build as much as you can, as soon as possible. That lowers cost. Simple as that! There were many more problems for sure especially on the planning. But it's really sad that such an important rail infrastructure is scrapped. And it really infuriates me that they want to sell the land that they've acquired. How can they be so stupid to do this!

[@stevencutts6314]

we should keep all the land for phase 2 in case a future government can find the funding to extend the system. it is extremely likely that the system will be reactivated at a later date and it will be expensive to repurchase this land. If we only link Birmingham to London this will still be quite good but overall its greatly disappointing.

[@Korschtal]

I can't help thinking this is the point. The Tories are trying to shovel as much cash out of the country to their chums as they can; selling the land cheaply to -investors- donors would mean the donors would make a profit later when the next government has to buy it back. The Tories get a tax cut now, and their donors get a payoff even when they are in opposition. Of course the Tories will then complain loudly at "extravagant spending".

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

Thatcherite Tory Britain is now self-harming to the degree where it is not only damaging the usual targets - workers and their unions, minorities, immigrants, etc - but extending that to gutting milestone projects in rail - one of _the_ things Britain became known for - in favour of a single party's short-term vote-chasing from its regressive voter base. A true way to ensure your country stays stuck while rivals move ahead in infrastructure, economy and so on.

[@archiewoosung5062]

Is one hope that Birmingham airport will be an extra option for people travelling from London?

[@lokesh303101]

Better thing is to expand Railway Networks with increased connectivity one-to-one with minimum interchange section.

[@wulliemac6528]

Let’s face it this project was a failure to start with

[@Seagull81006]

HS2 not going to Crewe and East Midlands Parkway (with safeguarding to Manchester and Leeds) is utterly ridiculous. Sure, not idea compared to the original Plan + NPR, but a decent network that frees up the WCML and MML unlike present which is a glorified Birmingham shuttle that will actually be slower on some parts and to be honest, i think the naming was pretty bad/meh, as it did make people think the only point of HS2 was speed, when it was moreso to relieve the WCML,ECML and MML(ish). A better name would have been West & East Coast Relief line, so as to make the purpose clearer, though it wouldnt roll off the tongue as well. Thats for sure.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

If you do a bit of reserch, HS2 trains WILL reach Manchester via a junction off HS2 onto the WCML at Handsacre in Staffodshire where by the HS2 services will reach Manchester via the WCML

[@Seagull81006]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 I am aware of this. Im on about the line itself

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

The land sale is the scummiest move by Sunak.

[@mothermovementa]

Exactly there were elderly ppl booted out of their homes

[@bellshooter]

There is a problem here, you don't actually understand the reason for this line development in the first place. It was NOT to make an even faster connection to Manchester, Birmingham ,Leeds and York. The need was to free up railway paths for FREIGHT services on the main routes to allow high speed freight services to replace long distance road transport, utilising freight hubs. The High Speed design was simply because the European Interoperability requirements meant that all new mainline projects would be built to standards that could be HS for a small incremental cost. The high overall cost was little to do with HS , just the cost of this kind of long term infrastructure rail project. Land acquisition and tunnelling underneath pretty hills rather than just building on surface.

[@Sexyoldgeraldorivera]

It should never have happened in the first place. But it was around long enough for everyone to get a slice of the pie before they canned it.

[@BigBoomOfDoom2]

Yes the political will may be an issue, but by far the larger issue is how every other western nation can build such infrastructure projects in an affordable manner, and the UK seems to always do it for 10X the cost. THIS folks, is why we can't have nice things. With that said, we CAN improve the situation, with the right people in charge.

[@Whatneeds2bsaid]

Scaling back the project is unfortunate but understandable given the exorbitant costs. Selling off the already acquired land is inexcusable given that the capacity constraints are well documented.

[@Inucroft]

The costs are far higher cancelling it than building it. Because the costs, are seen on the network and population in general.

[@adamcheklat7387]

Well, that’s a real train wreck.

[@jonathanravenhilllloyd2070]

Regarding the Spanish and French high speed networks, they DO have double the land area that the UK has. Unlike immigration, "not enough room" is an argument for it being harder to build new railways here.

[@zivkovicable]

We are talking a tiny amount of land use compared to roads. Rail is a space efficient form of transport.

[@LeslieGilpinRailways]

You say HS2 reaching Manchester Leeds and York would serve the north of the UK. It would only serve the north of England with Scotland - the north of the UK. Scotland would only be served by the HS2 trains on the existing WCML, as you say at much slower speeds than the existing trains

[@andrewbullivant8936]

The British government doubled the daily running cost of every piece of plant equipment working on this project when it stopped the use of rebated fuel and forced them to use derv. Then they wonder why the project cost went through the roof!

[@Carlos-im3hn]

excellent review. Engineering has many failures to achieve greater things later. Maybe they have to figure out their goals within appropriate funding and finance. OOC (14 platforms) is a massive west London station, on par with Euston (16 platforms). Engineering is difficult and takes time and money. Here we are.

[@user-nx3fm5rk9j]

What more did you expect. "Airmiles" Sunak wasn't interested in the project anyhow.

[@mattevans4377]

And it'll still end up costing 100 billion, because how else will the rich get richer?

[@CM73878]

And the problem now is, there isn’t enough capacity to run the new trains north of Birmingham without cancelling existing services, which means fewer freight and passenger trains and under-utilised and highly expensive new trains idling in their yards. Crazy decision.

[@stevens1041]

I still don’t understand why this project would be nixed. It seems incredibly beneficial.

[@Gnefitisis]

Because Conservative politicians only care about staying in power and putting money into their pockets.

[@Nat_Ryder]

It's politics man, politics!

[@ChrisJohannsen]

Conservatives hate trains

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

No there are zero benefits whatsoever from it. Vanity project, for political show off, it serves zero purpose. We will be subsidising the bit still going ahead it's entire life. Poor taxpayers subsidising rich travellers choices. Scrap it ALL.

[@HMSDaring1]

I cannot wait for a new Government - hopefully as soon as possible they reverse this colossal failure of a project and build the full HS2 as it should! The sooner the better - this embarrassing situation severely hampers UK development for decades to come.

[@daanwolters3751]

And moving the faster trains away from the main lines, means a lot more space for freight trains, who have an average speed comparable to regional trains. Meaning you improve your freight infrastructure by a lot as well.

[@lr7694_]

As a french fan of HS Railway I’m disappointed with all these cancellations. In comments, I read many of you complaining about the London prominence of political interests. We faced same problem in France back the 70’s 90’s. HighSpeed Rail was developed by the government, so regional interests were forgotten. Fortunately HS projects are now carried out by the regions in my country. It’s why you can see the multiple current HS projects (Marseille-Nice or Bordeaux-Toulouse for example) I have to admit UE helps also developing French network as they plan to link Italy and Spain to the rest of Europe (Bordeaux - Dax - San Sebastián project or Lyon - Turin) In UK some regional leaders can take to their own some part of HS2 original plans maybe. The original British project was too big and too complicated…tunnels for forest preservation looks like a good environmental idea at first but finally with a simpler and more affordable project the line would probably be constructed and the true road-CO2 emissions deleted. I hope Manchester Birmingham line would reemerge in 10 or 20 years

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

Its sad this didn't work and hopefully it gets back on track because the original plan would have been a project that would make building a British Isles Railway Line between Ireland and North Ireland, and may have also spurred on other projects (midlands and north) that would further improve the islands... I'm surprised there was never a proposed direct north line from London to York that would further cut times to Glasgow and Edinburgh. This project wouldn't just change the isles but Europe also, as seamless travel of the same standards (better) as the rest of Europe would be realized.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Oh Give it a rest, HS2 has since it's conception has only been desighned as a Domestic High speed line between Birmingham and he North to London Euston to ease capacity on the existing West Coast Main line, THATS IT!, it was never deighned to go all over the country let alone Ireland

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 I'm not from England, but i have a lot of railway videos from British content creators, so I don't know what you know, but I know that if it was completely built out it would make the Isles a better place to live in and to visit.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@cliffwoodbury5319 The UK has loads of High Speed train service that are electrified and run at 125 MPH, being the West Coast Mainline to Birmingham, the North and Scotlamd. the Midland Main Line from London to Leeds, the East Coast Mainline to York and Scotland and the Great Western route to Wales and Plymouth. The HS2route is eing built to improve capacity on thw West Coast Mainline route from the North and Birmingham to London and Ireland has no connections to mainland British Railways.

[@tomsmith48]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 a big portion of the MML isn't currently electrified, although it does seem to be high priority at the moment.

[@brabblemaster401]

Good. The project was a great idea, but years of mismanagement has blown it out of budget. Its just wasnt worth the cost. Hopefully they could get their shit together in the future and retry

[@gduncan8012]

The UK's north is (currently) Scotland. I think you mean England's north. Scotland was never going to benefit from HS2 despite having to pay for it. . But I doubt THAT was going to be a problem for anyone in England.

[@BronyumHexofloride]

the worst thing is HS2 could have been salvaged if they intergrated a "motor-rail" system like Eurotunnel to offload road traffic and haulage directly from the roads to reduce emissions from lorries and long distance drives, then they can say the funds were used to help combat climate change and capacity on the North-South corridoors

[@MikeWillSee]

It's a lot better for the environment (and a much better use of capacity) to just run regular trains, thereby removing the need for cars/lorries on long-distance journeys at all! A full-length HS2 train could take close to 1000 passengers. 18 of those per hour and you've got some serious throughput, far higher than you'd ever get from any 'motor-rail' service, and every one of those passengers is someone who isn't on the roads or polluting planes. As for freight, there's less of a need for it to travel at high speeds, and the West Coast Mainline already provides an incredibly useful north-south freight route, which is already connected to plenty of existing railfreight sidings. With long-distancs trains shifted to HS2, you can then run a lot more freight on the WCML, and with efficient distribution centres there should be no need for a 'motor-rail' service here either.

[@SeverityOne]

That's not what you build a high-speed line for. High-speed rail is to provide fast, reliable, high-capacity rail travel that makes it an attractive alternative to private cars. It's been shown to work in Japan and France, where Tokyo, Osaka and Paris are suddenly within commuter distance of far more people than before. In the UK, rail transport is roughly half (8.4%) of the total compared to mainland Europe (between 15% and 20%). So there is a lot to be gained there. But not over a high-speed line. That's like having a motorway, and allowing all kinds of traffic on it, including bicycles, and reducing the speed limit to 50 km/h (30 mph).

[@dez7800]

The ending made me laugh hahahaha Good one !

[@aran145]

Didnt see the poll so heres an update to the construction of Indian HSR - Real work started in late 2021 after political problems. Total - 508km Foundation - 335km + Piers completed - 251km + Viaducts completed - 105km+ ( 1km constructed in 7 months , 50km constructed in 10months , next 50+ done in 6months) . Gaining pace much faster as more and more Launchers are built. Multiple stations have constructed more than 50% out of total 12.

[@WOLFIE-96B-UK]

It was only ever going halfway up England, the north doesn't end at Leeds, there's another 150 miles north of Leeds. It's the same with the M1. As usual the infrastructure in the North East is completely ignored by our London centric government.

[@henrytudor8537]

It is unfair to compare with France as there is bigger case for its High speed. It is in mainland Europe and links ot a lot of other countries. It also has a bigger landmass and more sparsed cities that need connecting to. The case for a High speed in the UK is not easy to make as the country is not really big

[@BrotherhoodOfHam]

Sure it didn't need to be 320km/h (at least immediately). I agree France is a poor comparison, better to compare with Germany which is much more dense and their 'high speed' trains stop far more frequently.

[@kanojune5754]

Then compare it to other islands.... Java, Honshu, and Kyushu.

[@_.seraphina._]

HS2's biggest benefits would not be brought from speed but rather increasing available capacity on the British railway network

[@gerrytierney6500]

Why do I feel the same as when I heard of the scrapping of the TSR2 so many years ago? Will we look back at the scrapping of HSR2 the same way?

[@markb9983]

They did the same thing with regional eurostar and the nightstar sleeper service. Two political groupings engineered this. The first were right wing ideologues and the forefathers of Brexit, who were running a project to undermine the EU/UK alliance for 25 years. They understood that having European rail services departing from regions had financial benefits and a psychological effect of connectedness for the regions. In the late 90's they managed to bring the Grifters onboard. These figures have no ideological aim other than their own enrichment. Together, they implemented extreme security and practical barriers to viability and then a tsunami of propaganda in the right wing press. The Grifters made fortunes off the sale of assets at knockdown prices. The idealogues ensured that the regions remained disconnected from Europe and unable to feel the benefits of integration. This fuelled resentment by 'left behinds'. This union of Extremists and Grifters is what ultimately turned Brexit from a fringe pursuit into a dark reality.

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

Thanks for the vid. It's typical of the current UK government to turn their backs on a project they supported fully only a few months ago. Now it looks like we're only going to get a fraction of what was promised. It will put even more pressure on the existing West Coast Mainline where HS2 trains will have to share tracks with other services. Major upgrades to this line may be required to reduce the inpact of this, reducing any short term financial gain from cancelling phase 2. If phase 2 or at a minimum if phase 2a is not built, it will be regretted for decades.

[@jonathanravenhilllloyd2070]

It makes me so angry that they're just dripping so much. It's so important to have better links and they're wasting so much on that northern infrastructure. These things cost a LOT of money but they are a great investment. More than simply financial.

[@caliburn50a]

All of the phases above Birmingham were always going to be canclled

[@johnburns4017]

Other cities and towns in the North have different views of Manchester being the "capital of the North". The politicians who pushed this should have realised that it would become a tinderbox for discontent. The government wanted four cities to be economic centres: London, Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester. The wisdom behind this is highly questionable to say the least. So, they invented a high speed rail network to serve only these four centres, rendering the rest as second class cities. Then they are surprised when others dispute this choice of centres and mini capitals cities. Liverpool does not particularly want to be the capital of North, being a city that traditionally faced the open sea, being the key to its world-wide success. More centralisation of power in Whitehall meant the city had to turn looking at its hinterland, then its economy dropped. Liverpool, Sheffield and others object to 'economic' favouring of Manchester and heavy government spending on the city over others in the North. The government hoped a high speed railway will distort the market to economically favour these mini capitals. HS2, the grand high speed railway has been whittled down over the years to the point it is a WCML relief line. It was to connect British provincial cities to the Continent and the prime airport, Heathrow. Both were dropped with HS2s raison de etre dissolved. Since the announcement of HS2 Liverpool's economy has risen. Liverpool's London rail service is bursting at the seams needing more trains/seats, yet Manchester's frequent London trains carry mainly fresh air during the day. Peter Hendry, head of Network Rail, sees this problem, wanting the WCML north of Crewe greatly upgraded to serve Liverpool and Scotland with more capacity and speed. He realises electric freight trains need to be expanded from the Port of Liverpool with lines upgraded to take them. 60% of containers offloaded in southern ports are destined to locations outside of the south. The southern ports have better rail connections out of their ports to the North and Midlands. By moving containers to and from northern ports for northern destinations releases freight paths on the main network. The existing WCML spur to and from Crewe to Manchester can be upgraded at a fraction of the cost of HS2 to that provincial city of Manchester.

[@nbarrett100]

Selling the land doesn't mean the rest of HS2 can never be built. If one government can buy it, so can another. I suspect Labour will reluctantly invest in phase 2 out of sheer necessity (I have been on lots of train between London and the North with standing room only and our population is only going up)

[@kasbas5922]

Good !! It didn’t make sense from the get go !

[@j3j326]

The hs2 needs a major rethink!

[@dirtmcgirt168]

Why are English speakers so against or incompetent towards HSR?

[@leeroberts1192]

The whole thing should be scrapped. With so many people working from home, where do people propose the demand for the services comes from? Unless people want to get to one of the big towns/cities that HS2 would go to, they're still going to use the old lines. If the fares are more expensive than the old lines, people will use the old lines.

[@jmd1743]

They said something like that about America's rail network today Texas has a 26 lane freeway.

[@iqbang9236]

For curiosity, where does the HS2 get 400km/h technology? Currently, the highest commercial running speed for wheeled trains is 350km/h.

[@daweilaotou1269]

As I understand it the Chinese Fuxing trains, currently the fastest are capable of 400kph but are limited in commercial operation to 350kph. Maybe the same here. Maybe they should have got China to build it, it would've been finished by now!

[@iqbang9236]

@@daweilaotou1269 No. The problem is everyone wants to have a piece of it. Nobody cares how long or how much it takes. The legal system certainly doesn't help as well.

[@montumeroe9593]

This isn't the only project the Americans objected to allot of UK infrastructure projects and the UK buckled the Americans must lead in everything remember.

[@Pisca-kk5cs]

This is what happens when people put stupid people in power.

[@uptoapoint7157]

Bring in the Chinese and get it at half price.

[@timnewman1172]

The Chinese do not face obstacles like land aquisition, reasonable compensation, and regulation...

[@Bungle-UK]

Hardly a betrayal….the east-west upgrades and local improvement schemes will have much more benefit than HS2 ever would.

[@samplechannel2fiyd5idjfufjfud]

DO you know why the cost is surging? because UK does not produce anything

[@ChineseTrainGuy]

Honestly not surprising as we have Rishi Sunak as pm, of course he's going to prioritise other things. Also other projects such as improving accessibility across the network has grinded to a halt, most likely because of overspending

[@johnjephcote7636]

One thinks of First War generals squandering brave and well-trained lives on the Somme with little care in management of resources and here we have politicans and their salary-grabbing minions squandering good talented workers' efforts and ignoring their gains for a constantly differing plan. To say that 'money saved (from a mere link as opposed to a real network?) can be spent on smaller infrastructure projects is a lie. Already we have heard 'We cannot afford this' for small line reopening schemes. I have heard that the money will go on pothole filling for London's roads!

[@WallaseyanTube]

@Conrad Harcourt: "WallaseyanTube I think you'll find that the DfT disagree with you. They have recently said HS2 'is desperately needed' to relieve the WCML." - Conrad Harcourt This is not true. Patronage has still not recovered to pre-COVID levels. Many trains are running with hardly any passengers. Clearly there is room for a reduction in the number services to reduce losses. The claims about HS2 south of Birmingham were based upon growth expectations but these expectations are not now being realised.

[@monkeysausageclub]

HS2 is only there to serve those in London. Even if completed fully there would be no benefit to "The North" All it would do would be allow those working in London to live a little further out. And to that it's still a success.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

How wrong you are, HS2 is based in Birmingham where it's HQ is and is being built to relieve the WCML of congestion, nothing to do with London

[@jellyboy123]

yet we give £4.6 billion to Ukraine. Another question wales spent 5 billion for HS2 will they get their money back and not a inch of track goes into Wales. They was sold the idea that north Wales would be more connected to the south of England the track only goes as far as Birmingham that hardly connecting the north of England