HS2: The £100BN Railway Dividing a Nation

[@johnmunro4952]

This is a project for future generations. I live next to a viaduct that was built in around 1880. It was hardly used for 40 years as my town didn't have a train station anymore. But then labour restored the station and upgraded the line and now it has been electrified and is a direct link to London! With these infrastructure projects you have to think in half century terms! It's not for us, it's for our grandchildren.

[@ChinchillaBONK]

If only America would have as much foresight as outside the States

[@nntflow7058]

It's okay, The Tory would sell it to private companies for $500 million after 8 years and then we would see price increase + free routes cancelation for the future generations, so they don't have to use it.

[@qjtvaddict]

Pathetic

[@qjtvaddict]

@@ChinchillaBONK Americas is the most pitiful continent on earth more so than Africa

[@EminencePhront]

What if you aren't having grandchildren?

[@elliottknifton8902]

This has made me wonder what if Britain started building a high speed rail network in the 80s, around the same time that the channel tunnel was being built and high speed rail was taking a foothold in Europe.

[@Garner84]

We were still recovering from all the motorways being built

[@NaenaeGaming]

16:59 if anyone’s interested, the UK government’s way to improve Phase 2B was by scrapping the Eastern Leg in its entirety, cutting off cities like Leeds (the only major city in Europe lacking any form of mass transit) and Bradford (the worst connected city in the entire UK) from HS2, as well as scrapping the previously mentioned Northern Powerhouse Rail.

[@SamuelKristopher]

Thanks Railways Explained, for making my lunch breaks so interesting. My colleagues keep asking me now - "oh, you're watching that railways explained guy again?"

[@GIOGS]

For any idiots that think that HS2 is built around journey times need to listen very closely to 18:11 Running fast trains running on their own lines will increase the frequency of local stopping services, reduce road traffic by taking lorries off the roads and bring big cities closer together to drive economic growth.

[@lordgemini2376]

It's both but yes capacity is very important with HS2

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

@@lordgemini2376 Increased capacity is the main benefit of HS2 though

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@jermainetrainallen6416 Yes, but at the same time that doesn't mean that speed shouldn't be highlighted as being ONE OF the benefits, because there is an argument that if we're going to build it at all then we might as well make it high speed!

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

@@Inkyminkyzizwoz Oh yes of course speed is one of the benefits but it isn't the main benefit which is capacity. Obviously we should take the opportunity of building a new line by building it to a high speed.

[@91Durktheturk]

Sure, but that can be achieved by spending a lot less money than is being wasted now.

[@EdgyNumber1]

Not plugging it into HS1 was a wasted opportunity. The south-east of England could've had a direct link to the north-west via Stratford International maximising revenue and cutting journey time across London.

[@noefillon1749]

Is there no "slow speed" already existing lines that could be used to go from one line to the other ?

[@theexmann]

Couldn't the Queen just make a donation and pay for it? Or, at least have all the Royal families chip in and cover the cost? It could be a great marketing tool too saying that the Royal families are bringing the country, literally, together!

[@CreatorPolar]

This is the purpose of crossrail (Elizabeth line)

[@choobs8511]

@@CreatorPolar Crossrail would require people to change trains which is dreadfully inefficient compared to having HS1 connect to HS2

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@choobs8511 HS2 has nothing to do with international rail travel, it is designed to speed up travel on the West Coast route into London, no one in Kent would want to travel upto the Midlands like it is easier for people to Fly to Europe from Birmingham and Manchester than travel by train.

[@Andrewjg_89]

HS2 is always going to cost lots of money. That’s the whole point of building a high speed railway line.

[@richardwilliams6132]

It is NOT the point The point is to deliver something actually worth a great deal of money, HS2 fails n every justification now not just money but unnecessary capacity with 89% of organisations now permanently adopting hybrid WFH whereas HS2 case relies on massive increases in rail passenger numbers, not a 40% decline, especially at peak times.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@richardwilliams6132 You do not get the point of HS2 do you, it is to give a better high speed rail service from at least Birmingham to London with 98% of Birmingham to London Services into London Euston being transferred from the Birmingham New Street line to the HS2 line so providing extra capacity for other services through Birmingham New Street and the rest of the West Midlands and both business and tourist passengers will use HS2 services

[@happyslappy5203]

HS2 phase 1 began in 2017, opening 2029-2033, a 225 km line isn’t that big. French TGV Paris-Bordeaux : last leg (340km) 5 years building 2012-2017, cost: 7.8 Billion euros, , 3 million tons ballast, 500 heavy works (24 viaducts), 13,000 catenary supports, 1.1 M tons of concrete sleepers… In France: HST "TGV": project started in 1974, 1st line Paris-Lyon (427 km) opened in 1981. World speed record on rails: 380 kph (1981), 515 kph (1990), 574 kph (2007).. TGV Paris-Bordeaux: Wednesday 4 january 2023, departure Paris 9:11 - arrival Bordeaux 11:14mn, 630 km duration 2h03mn, 29 euros...

[@TheRailwayDrone]

Absolutely FASCINATING video on HS2. I never realized how much this project sort of parallels the California High Speed Rail project in the United states in how much the costs have gone up. Regardless, I'm looking forward to both projects being completed.

[@MrTaxiRob]

Except the UK government is fully behind HS2, while California's "progressive" governor cancelled most of our HSR project despite it being a result of a direct voter initiative.

[@theexmann]

@@MrTaxiRob The governor did no such thing. The CA HSR is still in full force and the original route between LA and SF hasn't changed at all. The only thing Newson announced was that the Central Valley would get the first batch of funds to build that section first, but the rest of the route will be built as well. And you are right. The voters approved this so the governor doesn't have the power to cancel it. BTW, the CA HSR project will be twice as long as the UK project and yet cost 30% less according to data in this video.

[@richardwilliams6132]

HS2 £106Bn and rising fast.

[@davidwebb4904]

Bureaucracy and administration are singularly the largest budget item.

[@NothingHereButMe]

Absolutely. I can’t imagine another reason why this would cost that much

[@davidcolley7714]

Tosh

[@realpainediaz7473]

China does seem to have those issues when it comes to building high-speed rail?

[@productguru8323]

You're talking about India, not UK, right?

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

I've just watched the video. Thanks so much for this and keep up the good work. It was really good and very high quality and informative but I have a couple of notes: 1. 13:56 The official cost estimate for HS2 is still £82.7bn to £87.7bn in 2019 money. 2. 1:10 Network Rail upgraded the WCML beween 2002-2006. Network Rail didn't actually exist in 1990.

[@richardwilliams6132]

HS2 is now overspent, even all of the contingency. Totals are now well over £106Bn and racing ever upward. Wherever you look, brand new equipment on every site, everything over specified and out of control expenditure, most going to foreign companies,

[@mbohlahwoi]

100 Billion pounds will make every major island in my country having a complete HSR network

[@mapmuncher5587]

Indonesia?

[@UltimateAlgorithm]

Haha, that's probably true. Although the western world are totally on a different level in terms of cost.

[@mbohlahwoi]

@@mapmuncher5587 yes

[@lordgemini2376]

@@mbohlahwoi Buying land would be way cheaper in Indonesia wouldn't it? Along with paying workers and all the other factors that would make it add up. Can't deny the fact that we seem to be unable to bring things about in a costly manner and love to waste money tbh :)

[@mbohlahwoi]

@@lordgemini2376 land acquisition in Indonesia is becoming a problem too, Jakarta-Bandung HSR completion was delayed for 2 years because of this factor, yes they are cheaper, but with complicated bureaucracy and corruption, this can be a huge problem. 100 Billion pounds seems to be reasonable in UK because all of those factors, and this happened in every developed nation.

[@daweilaotou1269]

Having worked in China for the last decade or more, watching the development of high speed rail here, I can kind of understand why my home country, Australia, doesn't have HSR. The population of China's biggest city, Shanghai, spread across a whole continent ... not economically feasible. The UK however, a small, densely populated island nation ... !!!???

[@qjtvaddict]

Australia doesn’t even need an extensive HSR system unlike other countries it and Canada just need one line linking many commuter lines and even replacing some long distance lines with frequency upgrades on connecting local lines to be useful for Melbourne it doesn’t even need to go to the city center.

[@speedstyle.]

@@qjtvaddict Of course Australia needs HSR. The east cities are a perfect distance to compete with air, and low population density in-between makes it cheap to buy up land to make a bullet train. Typical 320kph lines could go from Sydney to Melbourne/Brisbane in under 3 hours, as fast as a plane if you include time sat in the airport. 400kph (like many lines under planning/construction today) would end those short-hauls entirely, taking barely over 2h. Adelaide is maybe a little too far to be worthwhile today.

[@richardwilliams6132]

Makes even less sense here, Why spend now well over £45Bn to save 29 minutes on a journey already served by two high-speed connections Ie Brum to London.

[@daniel11111]

@@richardwilliams6132 it’s great your kind keep holding up infrastructure projects in the west. Gives us time to outmanoeuvre and outbuild you all. Good job, Richard.

[@richardwilliams6132]

@@daniel11111 Thanks Danny Its great that your kind don't understand basic business, and what could be done with £100Bn. You can have all the time you want to build anything, whist we develop AI and Fintech. Good job Danny and good luck with schoolwork.

[@countdown4725]

That price though. Will probably be even more expensive as progress is made. In Spain, the per km price is about 9 times cheaper

[@HaroldWilsonsGhost]

That would be because Spain is incredibly sparsely populated compared to England, so land value is much lower.

[@davidwebb4904]

I know. I was talking to a civil engineer about this a few years ago, I told him the cost of high speed rail in the UK and he was convinced the number was a mistake, by a factor of ten. Crossrail could open, TODAY, but it isn’t….. Gotta milk Bessie dry before her carcass goes to slaughter. HS2 will be NO DIFFERENT.

[@GregHighPressure]

check how much motorways can cost per mile in the UK! :O

[@theexmann]

@@HaroldWilsonsGhost How does this compare with the California HSR project? Land in CA is not cheap either.

[@scottwhitley3392]

Because England’s population density is 1,143 per square mile compared to Spain’s 235 per square mile. Land is far more expensive, there’s more urban obstacles, labour is more expensive and H&S is stricter.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

Ditching the through link to HS1 is such a waste - £700m is peanuts compared to the overall cost! Yes, I understand that it's not simply a case of connecting the two lines and you have all the border and security issues as well, but putting in the connection would certainly be a start! Once that was done, they could look at the possibility of international services to and from the North and Midlands in the future, and in the meantime perhaps have HS2 services run as far as Ebbsfleet. Even if they couldn't run directly to the Continent, at least they'd provide a same station interchange with the ones that do

[@binarysignals9593]

Sadly the only potentially viable routes exceed 500 miles and beyond that HSR is unable to compete effectively against air travel.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@binarysignals9593 The fastest journey from London to Paris takes 2 hours 15 minutes and London to Birmingham is proposed to take 45 minutes on HS2, so Birmingham to Paris would take about 3 hours, which is about the same as what London to Paris used to take before HS1, so I'd say that's certainly viable!

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@binarysignals9593 that might change along with the cost of jet fuel in the future.

[@MohdArif-pl3sy]

The propose people mover between Euston and St Pancras probably will cost more than through tunnel.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

You could not run HS2 trains into St Pancras due to it's constraints, hit has a number of platforms for HS1 international channel tunnel service, then a number of platforms for the South Eastern high speed javelin services to Kent and the rest is for MML services, so you could not fit HS2 services into St Pancras Station.

[@noeldunford4955]

Can you imagine if we had no railways in the UK it would be hell on the roads

[@Lodai974]

We will have to be patient, but it seems to have started at least for phase 1. As for the uses of HSLs, I do not know those of our neighbors but the LGVs which use the ERTMS (ETCS 2) can put up to 20 trains / H. Half of the lines currently use it and the LGV Sud est (Paris Lyon) is being installed for an opening in 2023 (the line is currently saturated)

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Surprised to realise how far England, where railways started, is behind continental Europe in developing high speed rail and that the only existing high speed line is the short link between London and the Channel tunnel and that the planned top speed is well below what today’s trains can do. Will be great to reduce London to Edinburgh to two hours. Amazing to realise that not just France and Germany but also Italy and Spain are so far ahead. The lack of a link with the channel tunnel line is surely a big mistake and a false saving. Travelling from Birmingham to Brussels would in train time take three hours but having to change trains, allow for the schedules and get from Euston to St Pancras and do security and immigration will add maybe an hour. On the other side of the Channel trains leaving London can already go through Brussels to Antwerp and then Amsterdam and, though not sure it is scheduled but technically possible to Cologne and then Frankfurt. Beyond this distance and time increase above four hours

[@qjtvaddict]

Just fly the immigration is not worth it

[@scottwhitley3392]

The U.K. has a far greater challenge when it comes to high speed rail. England is 1/4 the size of France with the same population. Land is more expensive, There are more urban obstacles ect..

[@Difdauf]

​@@scottwhitley3392 The first french high speed line is nearly 50 years old, it was longer, and only took 7 years to build. This seems like a really cheap excuse for a high level of incompetence.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

HS2 trains will do 250MPH + compared to the top speed of existing trains of 140MPH

[@Hastdupech8509]

Well considering you're on a railway channel you'd know that Italy has been quite active in developing faster trains since Fascism and has built the first HS railway line (the Direttissima Rome-Florence) in Europe. Is this Anglo superiority I smell?

[@godzillamothra5983]

China is like: "You called that Mega??? I called it monday schedule."

[@NaenaeGaming]

And with the speed that China can build things like this at, it’ll probably only take that Monday!

[@keiming2277]

@@NaenaeGaming And 5000 billions in debt for the railroad authority

[@godzillamothra5983]

@@keiming2277 meh, where do you pull out that number?

[@keiming2277]

@@godzillamothra5983 www.xinhuanet.com/2021-04/30/c_1127399414.htm Don’t know if you can read Chinese but Google translate can do it 2021 Q1 the China Railroad Authority announced themselves , they are 5795.5 billions in debt and the debt is controllable as the reported by their state-owned press

[@Jinkypigs]

@@keiming2277 these are investment for the future .. and it definitely made the movement of people and goods way faster in china, a key factor in the development of such a huge country. most importantly they can afford it. UK... will they actually manage the cost well AND actually get these track build, train in operations and the lines running on time and efficiently? Well only time will tell. But the track record doesn't inspire confidence

[@mikepowell2776]

Given that HS2b and Northern Powerhouse plans have been scrapped whilst the line may not now reach central London and a further 2 year delay has been agreed, an update to this tragic comedy might be useful.

[@jasonleahy5543]

There will be two types of HS2 rolling stock, UK loading gauge trains that will run to Glasgow and Edinburgh, Scotland, and Continental GC loading gauge trains that will terminate at Manchester and Leeds stations, Britain had the first railways but the problem was that early steam engines like George Stephenson's Rocket were small and not powerful enough to climb steep hills, to save money the British Victorians built low and narrow bridges and tunnels, when railways were introduced in other countries, France, Germany and other countries on the continent and elsewhere steam engines had become bigger and more powerful so the structure gauge, height and width of the infrastructure e.g. bridges and tunnels was increased because the loading gauge, height and width of the trains had increased, further in 1913 the continental gauges were standardised with the Berne loading gauge agreed in Bern, Switzerland which allowed larger German trains to travel cross border to France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland ect, and vice versa, it's because UK bridges and tunnels are low that tall double decker trains are not used, however the AeroLiner 3000 double decker train design was a finalist of the RSSB ( Rail Safety and Standards Board ) tomorrow's trains design today competition 2014 developed by Andreas Vogler Studio and German Aerospace Centre ( DLR ) which is UK loading gauge and was proposed to run on HS2 London to Birmingham and on the existing lines as far as Edinburgh, Scotland phase one, the AeroLiner 3000 double decker train can carry 30% more passengers than single decker trains, Alstom in 2016 said it could build Continental GC loading gauge double decker trains with 40% extra passenger capacity but only for phase 2 that will terminate at Manchester and Leeds, there is however a more recent plan for a through station instead of a terminus at Manchester, I don't know why the Department of Transport hasn't funded R&D into double decker trains as 12 tph ( trains per hour ) or less could carry the same number of passengers as single decker trains 18 tph. The low UK loading gauge is also the reason that only existing Class 314, Class 319 and Class 321 trains are being converted to hydrogen as new hydrail trains such as Alstom Coradia iLint have the fuel tanks mounted in the roofs and are too tall for British tunnels and bridges.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Do not know where you got the idea there will be two types of rolling stock for HS2, It may have European in cab signalling and overhead bridges highered to accommodate double deck trains, bit the width of the trains will be the same as conventional British rolling stock, trains designed to the European Berne Gauge are wider than British Rolling stock so will not run on HS2 as it is being built primarily to the British gauge and the Berne Gauge also refers to the gap in between the two running lines which is wider than our 6 foot gap allowing wider coaches and loco's, they are just allowing more height the gauge is will be the normal standard gauge, and the width of the trains will be no different to conventional trains. You mentioned train designs, no manufacture has been chosen yet so god knows where you got the ideas of Aeroliner Trains and the Italians are involved in the running of HS2 as it is being run by Avanti West Coast ( First trains ) and TransItalia as the only companies operating it in total. It is not the Government who will order the trains it will be First Trains ( Avanti West Coast ) / TransItalia who will be operating these trains when it opens.

[@richardwills-woodward5340]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 There will be two rolling stock types. He is right. These will be procured much later when the full line to Manchester and Leeds is complete.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@richardwills-woodward5340 Well I do not know where he gets his information from as no train on any part of HS2 is being built to the Berne Gauge as no international trains will travel on it. It is a Domestic Hi Speed line only initially running from Birmingham to London, when the line from Birmingham to Manchester is completed the trains running on phase 1 of HS2 will also run when added electric H Speed train sets are added from Birmingham and London up North, They are not classed as " Rolling Stock", that refers to Coaches and wagons only which are pulled by a locomotive, they will be Electric Hi Speed Trains with a power car each end comprising of about 14 coaches between the two power cars and will be similar design to the Italian Hi Speed Trains, their are no plans for double deck trains even though I believe the line may be designed to take them and all HS2 trains even those going passed Birmingham will be one design to British Loading Gauge only. I live in Birmingham, the Head quarters of HS2/Avanti West Coast / TransItalia who will operate this Railway as well as the WCML and we get all the latest news in Birmingham about HS2 and I have also googled it and only one type of train is mentioned. a 14 coach single deck train of European design or similar to a Pendolino Train with a higher top speed, plus I have interest in HS2 being a Railway Enthusiast as well as a Birmingham Citizen so have followed HS2 reports for ages, plus our local BBC news tells us everything, so god knows where you got this from, as the line will only be operated by one company, why do they need two different types of train, a load of unsubstantiated crap with no proof as I have looked it up and there is no information on types of trains to be used just images of proposed designs.

[@richardwills-woodward5340]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 There will be trains that *only* run on the high speed network when it is completed in the 2040's. New trains will be required by then, far more in fact. The new orders were to see continental gauge trains working the high speed only routes with newer rolling stock. The conventional line trains can then be redeployed to classic compatible services and freed up to be divided between east 'Y' and west 'Y' routes. I have read this several times over a decade ago. There is not reverence to it now as it isn't relevant for the foreseeable future. In fact, I don't think HS2 in its full capacity will be completed until toward 2050 if you factor in HS3. That's if it happens. For as long as HS2 replaces the West Coast services, and the eastern leg is not complete (in full) then the conversation is a dead duck anyway.

[@ce1834]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 Berne gauge is not used anymore, will be built to the larger UIC GC gauge for futureproofing and future continental size trains

[@Croz89]

My prediction is the HS2-HS1 link will be built with Crossrail 2. It doesn't make sense not to build a link if you're going to be digging up the area anyway. There are still plans to merge the two stations completely and build a massive "mega-station", and a set of perpendicular platforms for HS services would be an ideal link.

[@leobragaurbe]

What St. Pancras is a historical station, it cannot be demolished. Theres no way they are going to build some type of original penn station for London

[@Croz89]

@@leobragaurbe I don't think they plan on doing much demolition, just extending what is already present.

[@davidwebb4904]

Which is what they should have done to begin with. The British love to build things ‘for today’ without a care for what is needed tomorrow.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

Exactly. It seems ridiculous to cite the impact on Camden as a reason for not doing it when Crossrail 2 will involve digging a tunnel through there anyway!

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@leobragaurbe The plan is for the Crossrail 2 station to be positioned in such a way as to connect the two stations, forming a double ended station - Euston St Pancras

[@antaryjczyk]

Could You do one on high speed trains and future plans for for them in Poland ;)

[@etbadaboum]

Very complete and synthetic! Thank you.

[@RailwaysExplained]

You're welcome.

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

OMG YESSSSSSSSSSSSS YOU'VE RELEASED IT!!! I can't watch rn but I'll put forward my thoughts on the video when I do. Thanks so much for this. Keep up the good work

[@MikeWillSee]

I keep bumping into you don't I 😂

[@jermainetrainallen6416]

@@MikeWillSee 😂😂🤣Yes you do

[@PanglossDr]

50 years late, the UK finally tries to build proper high speed train systems.

[@Notthecobracommander]

Another great video, I think you where spot on. Nothing can delay a mega project more than finance and politics. I get using the money more efficiently, however I would question the motives of some of the objections/ lawsuits.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

*were

[@ameserich]

Good vid as always 😁

[@RailwaysExplained]

Thank you ☺️

[@phatmeow7764]

IMHO having a national intercity mass rapid transport system makes more sense than building a fast-charging infrastructure even in rural areas? we could get on trains between cities and drive ultra-efficient ev/hybrid/ICE within cities...

[@ZZZ-zl4mz]

I won't feel surprised if the final price tag doubles that.

[@jari2018]

they could use the tunneling boring machie and connect all major cites for 100 billion if they choose cheap station and cheap trains but if like - "I must be forever famous and remember so we wont do that" its a sickness that politicians and kings share

[@theexmann]

Very interesting and complex HSR project. So this will be roughly half the length of the CA HSR line currently under construction and appears that it will cost around 30% more. Both this project and the CA HSR project are very much needed for the ongoing development futures of both the UK and CA. It also seems these two mega projects have shared a very similar path with respect to getting them off the ground. The CA HSR project started construction in 2015, but they could both be completed around the same time according to current timeframes. However, at the video states, plans continually change on huge projects like this, but it's clear that is more the norm than not.

[@lindavainomae3489]

Thanks for another comprehensive video. Such a long history to get HS2 underway. I have grave fears for the eastern extension though - going back to the drawing board to redo the design does not bode well.

[@MrTaxiRob]

As long as they break ground sooner than later, future extension proposals will have proof of concept to point to. Once the public gets accustomed to it, they'll be more eager to build.

[@gpurunner3407]

AnsaldoBreda + Bombardier made ETR 400 which can operate at 360km/h in 2013. It is easy for Hitachi + Bombardier JV but some British customize is needed.

[@johnp139]

How can you have an independent review when it’s headed by the former chairman?

[@keithboddey]

I remember the ridiculous passenger number predictions for HS1. Here we go again

[@daisuke910]

There is HS1?

[@septology]

@@daisuke910 HS1 is London to the Channel Tunnel

[@daisuke910]

@@septology ahhh is that the EuroStar line? Havent tried that yet.

[@septology]

@@daisuke910 Yeah, it was build to speed up journey times to Paris but there's also scheduled domestic services

[@HesterClapp]

Why is building an automated peoplemover between St Pancras and Euston any cheaper than a few hundred metres of high-speed track?

[@MRclassrailfanMG]

Replacing buses and coaches (long distance)

[@EastofVictoriaPark]

Quick, California hire more consultants! The British are catching up!

[@jwarmstrong]

Based on the increases from planning to $100 billion - will be at $200 billion by 2025 & the ticket price will be so high few will be able to afford - this is a pie in the sky project.

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

Just like the Hyperloop?

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Since when has HS2 been a pie in the sky project, the way you are quoting costs in $ not £ suggest you are an American, if so you do not know the first thing about HS2, it is being built primarily from Birmingham to London to relieve the existing 2 track line from Birmingham To Rugby and on to London, so relieving the existing line for other train services and HS2 providing the main train services from Birmingham to London

[@Mayangone]

Not $ but £.

[@johnburns4017]

Strong leaks from Whitehall to the press is that the eastern leg of HS2, Birmingham to Leeds is cancelled. All papers are running the story, including the qualities, indicating it is true. The best thing to save HS2 is to use what is under construction. Make HS2: *1) a line from Old Oak Common in London to Rugby via Aylesbury* *2)* have a branch at Aylesbury onto an uprated Chiltern Line to Birmingham *3)* Have a station at Aylesbury for Buckinghamshire, the most aggrieved people. In short, HS2 from London to Aylesbury, where it branches. *a)* One branch to the WCML at Rugby; *b)* The other branch onto an uprated Chiltern Line to Birmingham. Continue HS2 from Old Oak Common, through the under construction Chiltern tunnels, then divert it at Aylesbury up the disused Gt.Central trackbed to branch onto the WCML at Rugby. That means recommissioning just 40 miles of Gt.Central trackbed. HS2 plan is to use a small section of the Gt.Central's trackbed from north of Aylesbury to around Brackley, this would mean just carrying on to Rugby. This reopened section of the Gt.Central can be called HS2 to appease the trainspotters. Also leave a station at Aylesbury to serve Bucks. Reopening an Beeching closed line would have popular appeal. North of Aylesbury the HS2 track can vitally branch into the Chiltern Line. All Birmingham trains can run onto this line taking them off the WCML, increasing capacity on the WCML. The Chiltern Line is a shorter direct route, giving a London to Birmingham journey time similar to HS2 times, or better. Trains on the WCML heading south, at Rugby then get two extra tracks to London. Removing the Birmingham trains off the WCML and diverting some WCML services into London gives all the capacity needed on the WCML - the line HS2 Ltd state will be is overcrowded as it stands. Of course remove bottlenecks on the WCML, MML and ECML, as a matter of course. Plans are in line to do this on the MML and ECML. This is the best solution all around.

[@JaidenJimenez86]

£9bn before they even started...

[@davidty2006]

spent on MP's paychecks proberbly.

[@FromtheWindowSeat]

Very comprehensive. Thank you! 👍

[@abarcengsuisse]

shame they abandoned the opportunity to have cycle routes alongside, due to cost. Hardly worried too much about budget up to now and yet another opportunity missed

[@jasonleahy5543]

I agree, The Guardian published an article that claimed the HS2 cycle lanes have a cost-benefit ratio of 5-6x far higher than the rail line, adding cycle lanes probably won't cost £100 million for a line that could cost £106 billion, HS2 new boss a couple of years ago during his first meeting with the transport committee said he didn't know about the cycle lanes and he would look into it, I think HS2 Ltd is missing a trick as the line is so hated that getting cyclists on side is a very good idea for a small extra cost.

[@ronclark9724]

Why would anyone wish to get blown off their bicycle by a 200 mph high speed train? I don't even like to bike on a highway with 60 mph speeds, preferring to stay on city streets of 30 mph or less...

[@abarcengsuisse]

@@ronclark9724 one would envisage a barrier between trains and cycles!!

[@Croz89]

@@jasonleahy5543 I can see that being the case in some of the more built up areas, but in the middle of the countryside? I'm not so sure. It would only be useful for long distance leisure riders.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@jasonleahy5543 Are you sure this was not an April Fools joke.

[@darksars3622]

If they even dare to use the fainsa sophia on teh rolling stock i swear to god...

[@KingAsa5]

Do a video on Teaxas High speed Rail.

[@greyfox8194]

im all for the highspeed rail im one of the biggest autistic train people within my friend group everyone will always find me in a book about british rail usually, but i have issues with HS2 being its construction of underouting forests, again all for the infastructure but it will cause irreperable damages to seed and soil life in the areas they plan to build witch i cant condone as us in the UK struggle as of recent to keep the govt from tearing up our forests

[@cathaypacific2118]

Bravo such a detailed and accurate video.

[@daanwillemsen223]

I can see why they decided to cancel the HS1 link seeing the current UK EU relationship

[@UltimateAlgorithm]

Aren't HS1 already completed a long time ago?

[@dixiedean1955]

@@UltimateAlgorithm he means the link between HS1 and HS2

[@UltimateAlgorithm]

@@dixiedean1955 but why have 2 unconnected high speed lines? I would presume the connection cost will be insignificant compared to the total construction on the line.

[@dixiedean1955]

@@UltimateAlgorithm Indeed. But I guess something might get built later in time if a need is identified. Most rail commentators think it unlikely people will chose rail over air from places such as the East or West Midlands to near Europe

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

That was cancelled long before Brexit

[@jossdeiboss]

It seems that Alstom is the most favourite one and it's probably the one that will win. The problem is that competitors might be angry because after the fusion of Alstom and Bombardier Transportation it is as Alstom has double chance to win. But as you said, nothing official at the moment. As for the costs, I never focus too much on the costs as it is about very long projects and so, even if we go over 100 billion pounds, it means 10 billion pounds a year for 10 years, which is not that much. Not cheap, but absolutely manageable.

[@route55qatar]

Nothing compared to the amount UK spends in war together with US all over the world.

[@davidwebb4904]

The Scamdemic response has already cost the country £300 Billion, so with that perspective, money is no obstacle. Our “Magic Money Forests” are unlimited it seems….

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@davidwebb4904 It ISN'T a scam!

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

Exactly - people just can't look beyond the figure and forget the time period it's being spread over!

[@kommandantgalileo]

it should be enough, if there are no delays of course

[@davidwebb4904]

This project is incredibly shortsighted. Its designed to cost as much as possible and be far from efficient.

[@tomrogers6510]

Ooooh. How do you know?

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

Yeah cuz automobiles are far more efficient, right?

[@inwedavid6919]

How a country who invented the train could have been so distanced by other countries in this area. I France all high speed line has develop and make richer each area connected.

[@CountScarlioni]

It's down to politics in the end. Since WWII successive UK governments have viewed British railways as a filthy Victorian throwback and endless money pit. They thought cars and planes were the future and that the rail network had no economic value. Rail lines ended up brutally pruned back, and what remained was starved of resources for decades. British Rail's attempts at modernisation were met with political scorn. Passenger numbers continued to plummet until the 1980s. THEN it all began to reverse and passenger numbers began climbing again. At the very moment British Rail started to show a profit each year, the government broke the system up and sold it off to private companies. Decades of privatised rail has seen only slight improvements, but linespeeds and service regularity has barely budged in all that time, mostly because many UK lines are running at max capacity. So it's only since rail became economically useful to them again that the government suddenly started taking High Speed rail seriously.

[@CountScarlioni]

@@basilmagnanimous7011 So...er... how exactly does this relate to my comment? Or did you just feel like a rant about Brexit? Don't get me started on that as I think it's the worst act of self-mutilation by the UK since the Suez crisis. Although if you are Swiss, not sure why you'd care given you aren't members of the EU either. Incidentally, we've had a number of referendums this past decade. Brexit was only one of them. There were also ones on the constituency voting system and Lords reform, on Scottish independence, on local governance and on policing.

[@thomasbowen7613]

Wales paying for this too but getting nothing from it, madness

[@robertsimpson2474]

North Wales to/from London will be quicker/less congested?

[@thomasbowen7613]

@@robertsimpson2474 doesn’t really benefit us in the south though, railways in wales are in massive need of restoration

[@misterflibble9799]

As mentioned in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJeYkql5irODZq8 Trains on the Cambrian Line (Birmingham-Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth) should improve in frequency and reliability; possibly the North Wales Coast Line (Crewe-Holyhead) too. The extra capacity at Birmingham New Street might also help Cross Country trains running from South Wales (Cardiff, at least) to Birmingham. Congestion around Birmingham causes issues to a large proportion of the UK rail network. If every national project were blocked unless it provided direct benefits to every single member of the population, then nothing would ever get done. For example - should the electrification of the Great Western line from London to Cardiff (cost ~£5.5bn, as far as I can work out) have been blocked because it didn't give any benefit to people in Edinburgh?

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Yep and Wales gets free prescriptions and Hospital car parking and Westminster pays for it, but us in England have to pay for prescriptions and Hospital Parking, it is called swings and roundabouts. Sorry.

[@matthewharry677]

Ah yes, HS2. The England and Wales project, that goes nowhere into Wales - yet is classed as a Welsh project. Preventing Wales from getting its Barnett money that both Sootland and Northen Ireland will get. The south Wales economy will lose out on £200m (according to DfT) when it is finished.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Since when has HS2 been any thing to do with Wales, it is a high speed line from Birmingham in the West Midlands to London Euston 🙄

[@matthewharry677]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 Exactly, if only the uk government also understood this too

[@bfapple]

It’s going to release capacity on the West Coast line, this will enable a proper all-day service to Holyhead.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@matthewharry677 Wales has never had anything to do with HS2, so how does it work, you catch a HS2 train at Birmingham Curzon Street, stop at Harlech, then Swansea and Cardiff then zip off to London.😒🤣😜✌

[@Wellyyoung]

Which century? 22nd?

[@rexstout8177]

Your pronunciation of British place names is exemplary.

[@doughart2720]

Hi RE. I thought you guys would have put up something about Australia's Inland Rail project, which is currently under construction, by now!. It will will join Brisbane and Melbourne, probably the equivalent of half way across Europe. Cheers

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

And take 5 days to complete the journey, in the 1970's Australia purchased the XPT train a development of the UK's HST 125 train, where as the UK's Intercity HST 125 did just that 125 mph, the XPT also capable of 125MPH barely in its life time went above 100 MPH because of shoddy track. So does not give much hope for high speed rail in Australia.

[@doughart2720]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 it's definitely not high speed. It's intended for freight. High speed trains won't be built in Australia in my lifetime! Political parties about to loose an election are the only one's who ever promise to build them. I'm actually surprised that Inland Rail is being built.

[@AaronShenghao]

I wonder, if the British government start this project 20 years earlier like China did, would it be easier due to lesser environmental concerns during construction?

[@jakehowie442]

8 out of 10 with only 3 being served by actual high speed rail...London to Birmingham project, both cities don’t really require added investment. Already cities with the most UK investment! Stupid idea

[@aoilpe]

How many millions are lost for the finances of the project due to Brexit?

[@jacksimper5725]

Maybe it would have been cheaper to build a Maglev system from the start ,But you cannot blame everything on Brexit ,although that is just an excuse for many who disagree with Brexit . HS2 has had financial over runs even before Brexit ,this is bad negotiations from the start ,if a company says any project will cost x amount they should have a penalty clause, so the company pays for over run as is done on road systems

[@archiebald4717]

Completely irrelevant.

[@taipizzalord4463]

@@jacksimper5725 Brexit Is causing massive losses to trade. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZfag4ejqNF9rbs kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2Osgmd7bN51bK8

[@zopEnglandzip]

@@jacksimper5725 penalties on financial over runs leads to poor quality and dodgy dealings, it's been tried before. Incentives to keep to schedule seem more effective but still it's important to deal with unforseen engineering problems properly rather than come back in a few years and have to rip it all out.

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

@@jacksimper5725 How the hell is a maglev system cheaper than conventional railway?

[@mfaizsyahmi]

HS2 Cost Overrun £1Trillion Speedrun

[@peacefinder9635]

Anyone tell me Which train image use thumbnail ?

[@B-A-L]

If we had stopped arguing and just got on with it it could have been built by now and cost less than half the cost quoted now!

[@ericdodd1420]

No! contracts given out on a hope that the guess the contractors made will be accurate, regarding costs, but as normal start the project then come back for more and more money.

[@trevorwilliams632]

It's all about the scope of works in every individual Contract not being fully known. So Contractors are tendering on insufficient information then claiming additional monies through the mechanism in the Contract..

[@mmtransport]

Top class video!

[@RailwaysExplained]

Thank you ☺️

[@johnburns4017]

The Integrated Rail Plan of November 2021 redefined HS2. It is now a London to Wigan line, largely paralleling the West Coast Main Line (WCML), not a network. The eastern leg of the *Y* has been largely dropped. HS2 will run onto the existing WCML at Wigan in north west England onwards to Scotland. There are two prime branches off the HS2 line: *1)* Northeastbound from Birmingham to East Midlands Parkway station where train run north onto the exiting Midland Main Line. *2)* Branching off east of Warrington eastbound to Manchester. HS2 largely parallels the WCML and is now merely a WCML relief line. The section from London to Birmingham is quite slow as it is full of green tunnels, defeating the whole notion of high speed rail. Grant Shapps, the Transport Minister, has said that the section from the WCML at Wigan to the branch east of Warrington, called the Golborne Spur, is to be axed. This leaves an incomplete and cludgy HS2, with phase 2B (north of Crewe) serving only Manchester via a circuitous line around Tatton past Manchester airport then though a 10 mile tunnel into the city centre. This circuitous line, costing billions, was incorporated to run past Manchester airport _in case_ private funding wanted to build a station at the airport. No kidding. The funding has still not been found for the HS2 Manchester airport station, which is to be separate from the existing station and a bus ride from the terminal. No kidding. This is an horrendous cost for a rail line to just one rather unimportant provincial city in case a station _may_ be built at an airport. Manchester already has a _direct_ line to HS2 at the Crewe junction, the WCML Spur, which can easily and cheaply be upgraded. As HS2 will not run onto the WCML at Wigan for Scotland bound trains, Scottish trains can only run onto the WCML at Crewe about 55 miles further south. Expect HS2 to be terminated at Crewe, being a London to Crewe line. The Integrated Rail Plan outlined upgrading the existing Midland Main Line (MML) and East Coast Main Line (ECML) to 140mph running in many sections, with advanced digital signalling and removal of bottlenecks, giving the English eastern cities equivalent journey times to London as HS2. The WCML from Crewe to Warrington, and the Liverpool & Manchester spurs off the WCML need upgrading which would improve Liverpool to London journey times and be not far short of HS2 times on the London-Manchester run. Then no more massive needless expense on duplicating rail infrastructure - infrastructure that only needed upgrading. HS2 was a fantasy line with its only real use being from London to Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland, in getting to these cities under the ideal three hours. The gains for the northern England cities was minimal to justify the project. Upgrading all of the existing ECML to 140mph running, which the Integrated Rail Plan recommends, will bring the Scottish cities in under the three hours.

[@richardwilliams6132]

Recent HS2 information shows a further massive escalation in costs, now well in excess of £100Bn to complete this awful mess.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Oh John Burns still talking rubbish about HS2, the HS2 route from Birmingham to London is to be run at 250 MPH, these tunnels like on the TGV lines in France are specially designed to allow high speed running with out slowing down, if HS2 was built to Scotland it would take nearly 50 years or more to complete the Scottish section and HS2 is definitely not a fantasy line. None of the existing WCML, ECML or Midland Main line could not be upgraded to HS2 standards with out loads of total disruption to existing passenger and freight services on these lines and cross country for years.

[@johnburns4017]

@@richardwilliams6132 It is now a London to Manchester line as the section from Golborne to Wigan has been dropped. This means trains to Scotland have to leave HS2 at Crewe then run onto the WCML to Scotland. The WCML from Crewe to Preston is being upgraded. The upgrade makes no difference in time. All HS2 needs binning. The section from London to Aylesbury can be kept as it is in advanced construction. It can run onto an upgraded Chiltern Line to Birmingham equalling HS2s time. Also taking Birmingham & West Midlands trains off the WCML. Also the London to Aylesbury commuter corridor is greatly improved and Aylesbury gets a station.

[@johnburns4017]

@@richardwilliams6132 I got off Eurostar yesterday. Max speed is 186mph. Very rare do high speed trains run over 186mph as they drink electricity, not being economical. Most run at 160mph. UK trains run at max 125mph. Many UK trains are capable of running at 140mph but they never fitted in-cab signalling. No kidding. Remove bottlenecks on the mainlines, fit state of the art signals then 160mph is achieved on the UK mainlines, equalling the Continent. HS2 needs a *full power station* to operate at the proposed speeds. Madness.

[@johnburns4017]

@@richardwilliams6132 Recent study says upgrading the ECML London to Edinburgh time will be 6 mins slower than HS2. The ECML *is* to be upgraded.

[@richardwilliams6132]

Oct 17th 2022. Two out of the four main contractor joint ventures (JVs) working on HS2 Phase 1, London to Birmingham, lack “sufficient capability to manage all the various obligations placed upon them”, according to a leaked internal review document. The document, seen by the Financial Times, is report by HS2 Ltd deputy chair Sir Jon Thompson to the HS2 board. Thompson, who was formerly head of HM Revenue & Customs, adds that the four JVs are “too large to effectively manage and control”. The four JVs working on HS2 are: SCS JV: Skanska, Costain, Strabag Align JV: Bouygues Travaux Publics, Sir Robert McAlpine and VolkerFitzpatrick EKFB JV: Eiffage, Kier, Ferrovial, Bam Nuttall BBV JV: Balfour Beatty, Vinci SCS is working on the tunnels in London. Align is currently working on the Chiltern tunnels and the Colne Valley Viaduct. EKFB is working on the route beyond the Colne Valley, through Buckinghamshire, including the Thame Valley Viaduct and the precast green tunnels in Chipping Warden. BBV is building the West Midlands section of the route, including the Water Orton viaducts. Thompson’s report, according to the Financial Times, also says that HS2 Ltd is receiving “bids for money from contractors on a continual basis and significant and lengthy commercial discussions around them”. The report states that the final cost of HS2 Phase 1 will be “many billions more than the reported estimate” of £40.3bn. This means it will also likely overrun its contingency budget of £44.6bn. Thompson says that HS2 has continued to record costs in 2019 prices, which means that none of the figures truly reflect “what has or is being paid”. The report continues: “In almost every area reviewed significant developments are planned in 2022/23 which impact on the estimates and risk.” It also highlights the “significant and growing challenge” of inflationary cost pressures. Last week, Lord Tony Berkeley, who served as the deputy chair of the government-ordered review into HS2 which concluded earlier this year, said that allowing for inflation using Office for National Statistics indices, he believes HS2’s overall cost for Phases 1 and 2a now sits at £155.52bn - over £100bn more than what has been budgeted for. Despite this, the Department for Transport has said: “There are no plans to cancel HS2, this vital project is already well underway, significantly contributing to Britain’s economic growth and setting the foundations for additional schemes as Northern Powerhouse Rail.”

[@johnburns4017]

The level _corruption_ is astonishing. They just do not care being overt in their dealings. When the Tories are in power things like this happen.

[@Worldwithoutboarders]

What a waste of money! We could build 100 new hospitals and schools.

[@reggiesmith3866]

I will not be around when this thing is completed and up and running but I predict that far fewer passengers will use it than the very large numbers expected as since Covid much more business is being conducted via Skype etc over the internet than face to face with many more working from home. This will surely increase in the future.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Why do you think HS2 is being built for Office workers, it is replacing train services from Birmingham New Street to London Euston so strait away it has a captive audience

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

People said the same when the telephone was invented

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 *straight

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@Inkyminkyzizwoz You are sounding like a prat now you are just picking flies mate, try looking at other debates and if spell check does not pick things up I couldn't care too hoots.

[@gabrielfelippemateus]

PLEASE TALK ABOUT GRAND PARIS EXPRESS

[@Paul_C]

Nope, the pound is tanking.... double it, maybe even triple.

[@marcoducceschi3849]

Where they are building high speed trains lines the station are not in the cost as local authorities pay for it

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Well I can Assure you that Birmingham City Council are not paying to build Birmingham Curzon Street Station on HS2, the Government is.

[@derrickemptage854]

Since writing the piece last week I have ow done a lot more research and read a lot of reports on the HS2 super railway.the work that has been carried out all ready . Plus buying up the land that the railway will run on has already used up 1 billion pounds all ready. It has been already talked about is stopping the Easton link. Because it has run out of money before it has really started. Now it has been calculated that the HS2 railway section from Crewe to BUMFORLING near to Wigan will cost I billion pounds so my calculations work out at between three .five and four billion pounds. That is if it ever gets North of Crewe

[@mike21216]

which country are they going to invade to fund this railway project?

[@davidwebb4904]

Based on Crossrail, £200 billion wont be enough.

[@rudolffabrie3233]

Costs have become ridiculous

[@theochao2361]

I wonder how much baked beans can I buy in bulk using 100 billiion pounds?

[@mattevans4377]

You know for a fact someone is getting very rich off this project.....

[@DaveJNoel]

Who?

[@binarysignals9593]

@@DaveJNoel The shareholders of all the sub contractors for starters.

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

That's just the reality of most free market societies

[@DaveJNoel]

@@binarysignals9593 So nothing unusual with HS2 compared to other big projects? I assumed Matt meant HS2 was some sort of scam or something.

[@binarysignals9593]

@@DaveJNoel Capitalism is a scam.

[@perhapsme988]

Interestingly that all of English speaking nations don't have REAL high speed rail service at all. Only one reason. That the Frogs (the French) have them so anything 'French' isn't welcome in these English speaking nations at all.. Well the losses are with the English speaking nations...

[@davidsrogers]

Route pronounced Root not Rowte

[@kama3422]

It's a complete waste of money. I assume the price for a ticket will be double the cost of a normal train ticket anyway.

[@controlZchannel]

I bet you'll still be forced to stand in the aisle of the train even though you've purchased an airline priced ticket just like everyone else.

[@Hession0Drasha]

The uk is so far behind our friends on the continent 😑

[@johnburns4017]

We are not.

[@Hession0Drasha]

@@johnburns4017 every other country in western europe has hsr that connects almost all of their largest cities, by 2030 it will be ALL of their largest cities, and not even just that, but across all of their borders as well. By 2030 the UK might have finally linked it's 1st and 2nd largest citiy together. How is that not behind?

[@johnburns4017]

@@Hession0Drasha The towns and cities in the UK are too close together to justify high speed rail. HS2 was a fantasy line with its only real use being from London to Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland, in getting to these cities under the ideal three hours. The gains for the northern England cities was minimal to justify the project, hence why one leg was dropped. Upgrading all of the existing ECML to 140mph running, which the Integrated Rail Plan recommends, will bring the Scottish cities, with maybe some high speed line in Scotland in under the three hours.

[@Hession0Drasha]

@@johnburns4017 it has largely replaced internal air travel in italy, which is only about an ireland larger than the uk in size. With a similar population density.

[@johnburns4017]

@@Hession0Drasha Internal air travel in the UK is primarily Scotland, Newcastle and N Ireland. Upgrading the ECML and WCML will vastly reduce that. From Scotland it is the magic 3 hours for London-Scottish cities.

[@Twmpa]

The British government has a long history of cost overruns on large projects so it is extremely doubtful that the cost of HS2 will remain at £100bn. After Covid, serious questions need to be asked about whether the passenger demand will actually be there when it is completed - 300,000 people per day sounds very ambitious to me.

[@jos4669]

In all fairness, the rail network is already seeing passenger numbers that are close to matching pre-pandemic levels - the whole idea that the pandemic and wfm has killed rail travel is VASTLY overblown and anyone who travels on the train regularly can see that for themselves. The case for HS2 is very much still in place.

[@trevorwilliams632]

250 billion will be closer to reality.

[@jimmeade2976]

Interesting and informative video. Why do you use a comma for decimal point for a video about UK rail when UK uses a period for a decimal point? That's very confusing since a comma is used to indicate thousands in the UK. I am aware that other countries use a comma for a decimal point, and suggest that you customize your videos to use whichever is appropriate for the region the video is about.

[@RailwaysExplained]

Thanks for the helpful advice. We will do like that in the future.

[@jameswalsh477]

Says rowt instead of route too many times.

[@msingh2333]

Flying cars will be out before this is finished, big waste

[@timtim4603]

Why couldn’t they use lines already there, the cost is ridiculous already and will come out of our taxes I guess only good thing is keeping people in work, country churned houses lost? And why are we doing this when journey times will 20 mins faster? My apologies that is wrong, now they spent so much money they can’t stop

[@johnburns4017]

HS2 connects only *FOUR* cities _directly,_ not eight. For example, the London to Liverpool HS2 trip will spend most of the time on the slower tracks. Hardly _high speed._

[@richardwills-woodward5340]

Most time will be spent on high speed tracks. At Crewe it goes onto high speed rail. Even in phase 1, the London to Lichfield/Birmingham suburbs will save lots of time to Liverpool. All high speed railways in Europe use conventional rail in most cases on some routes. Even with 125mph trains, point A-B times are still faster in the UK than anywhere else in the world except for France, Germany, Spain due to rail alignments, junction rationalisation, and running through cities instead of route and branch systems we have here and are designing for HS2. Even the 247 miles between London and Newcastle is as fast as the 247 miles Tokyo-Osaka due to alignments. No two cities in England are further apart than that. It is quite astonishing.

[@johnburns4017]

@@richardwills-woodward5340 The London to Liverpool HS2 service will be London to Crewe on HS2, then 40 miles on slow 2-track WCML and a slow WCML spur. *The train spends more time on the slow tracks than on HS2 track.* If the bottleneck were removed on the WCML and WCML spur with trains running at 140mph average, with digital signalling, London to Liverpool/Manchester would at least equal the HS2 time or most probably even improve on it. The whole plan of HS2 is plain *bad.* A very poor design.

[@richardwills-woodward5340]

@@johnburns4017 That is wholly incorrect. The West Coast is 125 mph capable and beats most high speed lines in the world anyway due to its alignments, junction rationalisation, trunk and branch design. Most high speed lines in Europe use conventional tracks to get to destinations. HS2 is one of the few in Europe where the tracks will be high speed right into the centre of cities. Liverpool won't have that luxury but journey times will hardly be slow!

[@johnburns4017]

@@richardwills-woodward5340 What is incorrect? *WCML has bottlenecks.* The WCML spur to Liverpool cannot get anywhere near 125mph. It is quite slow. The spur from Weaver Junction can be *much* faster.

[@picandvideo]

No. Not enough. Needs double it. 😂🤣

[@AlohaBiatch]

Can they just stop dicking around and hire JR Central or JR East to design the route? It's absolutely unbelieavable that their routes are costing so much. Japan has massive mountains unlike the UK which are very difficult to build in0, even more expensive land than the UK (for property acquisition) yet they can build lines for cheaper. This mess of a route must have been designed by "consultants" that don't have experience in making high-speed rail, and you end up with this sort of nonsense!

[@epincion]

Will 100 billion be enough for HS2? Short answer is no. Currently costs run at 1 billion a mile to construct. It’s a money pit.

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

Source on that?

[@EdMcF1]

Just spent more, whatever it takes, even if we all have to eat grass 3 days a week, it'll be worth it to take 30 minutes off the Birmingham-London run.

[@oscarfeatherstone6688]

The point isn't to reduce journey times, it's a capacity enhancement. Speed is a bonus.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

But it ISN'T just about that, it's about CAPACITY!

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

@@oscarfeatherstone6688 Exactly. In fact, next time someone says that it's a lot of money just to save 20 minutes, maybe the response should be that it is, and hence that's the biggest indicator that it isn't just about that!

[@oscarfeatherstone6688]

@@Inkyminkyzizwoz That's the most succinct way I've heard of putting it. Thanks for this, will make good use of it!

[@TheIllSc]

100B for 500KM ? Wut? China built the tibet high speed rail train at half the cost with almost 4 times the length. Pretty sure Tibet geographical challenge is much more difficult than England.

[@rowanvisvalingam5353]

because england has human rights standards and pays people properly

[@Croz89]

Tibet is mostly an empty desert. Sure, there are terrain constraints, but you don't have to deal with a lot of people. Plus the tibet HSR isn't really that fast, some might not call it high speed at all.

[@peterd788]

Building this kind of thing in the UK and particularly England is incredibly expensive because the UK, at less than half the size of France, has to balance very strict planning rules, environmental standards and almost unlimited legal challenges by interested parties. The CCP can simply disappear environmental protesters and put people who complain in concentration camps.

[@TheIllSc]

@@Croz89 It's 160 km/h . Main challenge is that Tibet is very mountainous

[@seanrodgers1839]

@@peterd788 What environmental protesters, in China? Maybe you mean people protesting the demolition of their houses and being forced off of their land for minimal compensation. China is a dystopian wasteland, nobody cares about the environment.

[@johnmayell3801]

Are the German's building this , commentator's curse . £100 billion will just about get to Bham , costs are spiralling , particularly in and around Euston which is the wrong station to go to . Tine to abort and spend money on local Rail improvements , who's going to use It now , probably London commuters to London fron newtown at Solihull where they could afford a house .

[@istoppedlaughing5225]

Make a video on China's homemade maglev train.

[@mattpointer8495]

Course it won’t

[@iaw7406]

if it doesnt even go to leeds, what's the fucking point ? birmingham and manchester already have decent transport. leeds is poorly linked and is in dire need of more transport.

[@Wonderkid44]

British railways so outdated slready, unfortunately if they want to modernise they’ll have to pay, by the time some developing country have railways this will be the international standard.

[@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk]

Isn't it already a standard, though?