HS2 WILL go to Euston & Jacobite steam train controversy intensifies | Ep 33

Jacobite steam train controversy intensifies as customers vent their frustration at increasingly poor service.
HS2 - the Government makes a sensible u-turn on funding the HS2 tunnels from Old Oak Common to Euston… but did Labour miss an opportunity with their response to the news?
We discuss the initial findings of our look into train drivers’ terms and conditions following the feedback we received to our Big Interview with Rail Minister Huw Merriman ( • Rail Minister Huw Merr... )… but it’s seriously complicated.
WiFi on trains - just when we thought a viable superfast solution was approaching, it appears to have been cruelly snatched away…
We talk to someone who can count five generations of his family working for the railways - and he has a lovely story to tell about the West Coast Main Line electrification too.
And a little update on tree clearance in the South West following our recent visit with Route MD Nick Millington ( • Weather resilience, cl... ).
In this episode:
00:00 Intro
04:21 Mayoral Elections on last episode and discussion of regional airports
08:51 Train drivers’ terms and conditions and investigating what was said in our Big Interview with Huw Merriman
16:32 Talks between ASLEF’s Mick Whelan and Rail Minister Huw Merriman
16:57 HS2 tunnels to Euston to be funded by public money
21:33 Jacobite steam train controversy as customers complain about service
32:13 A1 Steam Locomotive Trust 60163 Tornado steam train delayed
36:53 WiFi on trains - new superfast WiFi on South Western Railway
46:58 West Coast Main Line electrification personal story
55:24 Lineside vegetation management - trees cut at Bryn y Gwynan
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Credits:
Presenters - Nigel Harris (@railnigel on X) & Richard Bowker CBE (@SRichardBowker). General Manager: Stef Foster (@stefatrail)

[@richardbarrow3109]

Another great episode. I particularly enjoyed the short piece with Andrew Pennington, which clicked with me as I come from a railway family. I have reached 43 years as a signal engineer; my son is a train planner, my father did 42 years as a civil engineer, his father was railway shipping agent for the LMS, and previous to that we have engine drivers and firemen going back to at least 1870 with a driver based at Lytham St Anne’s- so that is more than 150 years and counting.

[@mikeuk4130]

I remember the Jacobite in the days before the Harry Potter effect took hold. I also remember the sheer unbridled joy of several return journeys between Glasgow and Mallaig and between Inverness and Kyle of Lochalsh behind snarling 37s. Its time for Scotrail to run these again with scheduled services, using a dedicated fleet of locos and coaches, and making the most of its beautiful railways.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

There is a significant cost implication for that but, yes, it would be good to have far better rolling stock on the Mallaig and Kyle of Lochalsh lines. As two of the most scenic routes in the UK, if not the World, they deserve a better standard of trains. Give tourists a decent train service with comfortable rolling stock and they will come. UK rail needs to learn lessons from the Swiss.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

It's good that there will be a new line between Bedford and Cambridge. Similarly, it would be nice to have the Calder Valley Line between Leeds and Halifax electrified, to match the line between Cambridge and Kings Lynn!

[@Thunderer0872]

I have to say in the early days of being on tours with WCR stock I was not impressed by the overall state of the stock, The dirty exterior as well in some cases poor interior was kind of shocking. I feel personally by reading between the lines, and yes I may be completely wrong with this? It sounds like it's a case of not wishing to spend the money? As there must be a way to do this? So now they are losing money by dragging their heels, by not being allowed to run trains must be costing them even more? So when Virgin trains went over to 220/221 Voyagers & Mk3 stock on the WCML for Pendos, I know some of the Mk2 Aircon stock is still in use with Rivera Trains. But for the stock that went for scrap, did they save the CDL mechanisms from the Mk2's & Mk3's? I doubt there was any reason to, I guess? Can that type be used with Mk1's? If not, is there a version that works with those older style of doors? I did the Jacobite late 90s and again late 2000s. I enjoyed those trips thoroughly, the last time I paid on the day as I had just jumped off the sleeper I was happy to stand on the way back after two beers and a bag of Fish and chips. This from a Class 50 fan born in 1970. p.s a great Podcast subbed.

[@michaelmcnally2331]

As I understand then Vintage Trains are going to use a system removed from Mk2 and LSL used CDL from Mk3.

[@lnerrules-iw6ry]

Another excellent video there Nigel and Richard. Going back to the West Coast Railways report, I blame the Chairman of WCR, David Smith and his Commercial Manager James Shuttleworth. They don't like been told what to do? I'm sorry nothing personal for goodness sake just fit CDL, simples.

[@mikeuk4130]

I think this is my favourite Green Signals episode to date. I find it brings a great blend of variety, balance, humour, honesty and thoughtfulness. In particular, the contribution of Andrew Pennington is wonderfully heartwarming and adds to the friendly, magazine-type feel of the proceedings. Finally, I really enjoy watching this latest phase of your respective careers. You have both mellowed since you were first together in the mid-seventies as Statler (now Stadler, of course) and Waldorf. Very best wishes to you.

[@GreenSignals]

Lovely. Not sure about the Muppets reference, but I’ll take the rest…..!

[@mikeuk4130]

@@GreenSignals I avoided referring to the Muppets; they were much-loved characters!

[@MrDixie951]

Very informative video gents as usual, keep them coming

[@GreenSignals]

We certainly will keep them coming. Thanks!

[@ricktownend9144]

Thanks, Richard, for the commendably short but pithy explanation of the issues about averages and ranges - more like that, please!

[@GreenSignals]

You are more than welcome Rick!

[@Jamie92208]

The interview with Andrew Pennington was great. His father would have worked with Ernie Whitehouse who was in charge of the former Midland electrification at Lancaster, Morecambe and Heysham. He helped lay out the scheme from Preston to Carlisle using his experience of maintaining the LMH system.

[@grenfellroad8394]

I believe Gloucester is the longest platform in the UK. Great show as always gents, keep up the great work 👍 cheers, Timmo

[@GreenSignals]

You are most welcome. Thanks for the feedback. And tune in next week to see if we agree re Gloucester…..

[@typhoon-7]

Gloucester has a long continuous physical platform that is split into 2 operational platforms (no's 1 and 2). Perth however has Scotland's longest (and the UKs?) that is one continuous and single numbered platform (No 4) at 473m.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Some lovely comments from Mr Pennington. "There's nothing new on the railways!" Yes, it's the same old story, the good railwaymen can do the job, but there's no funds allocated by the politicians for the job, e.g., urban electrification of the North.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The Wharfedale and Airedale Metro electrification was justified by the cascade of secondhand rollingbstock and has never looked back. Surely, the same model for electrification can be used for the extension of electrification to the whole of the urban area of Yorkshire and Humber Region?

[@physiocrat7143]

West Coast should sort this out by coming up with an inexpensive solution. The device fitted previously to mark one stock was unduly complex. That said, the ORR is straining gnats and swallowing camels. Getting on and off the Hitachi 800 series at some locations is perilous. There are no handrails where they are needed - there is nothing to hold on to. The handrails provided are too far inside the train. How did this slip through the ORR scrutiny? How many slip and fall injuries are happening?

[@buzzukfiftythree]

By and large, the ORR is pretty useless.

[@philipbancroft]

I used to catch Cravens DMU from Brierfield to Preston to see Class 50s (among other things). I've even got a Bachmann Cravens with Preston on one end and Colne on the other.

[@heydon2012]

I have also been on trip advisor and what also strikes you is the condition of the carriages , they look like in dire need of refurbishment

[@guyb3785]

Great pod cast again. The Government should build Euston station and link HS1. Jacobite train sounds like whole mess.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks

[@Group51]

Yes. Tunnel spur to HS1. Business case be damned.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Why does what is esentialy a Hi speed domestic line from Birmingham and the North West need to be connected to HS1 which is baically an International Railway line when there is no business case for such a link as every one from Birmingham, Manchester and Scotland find it easier, cheaper and in the case of Scotland quicker to fly to Europe than catch the train. I has alredy been tried when the Channel Tunnel opened and it never got off the ground due to lack of interest, plus how many domestic European train companies want to travel from Brussels/Paris to Birmingham or Manchester, none.

[@GreenJimll]

Good to hear acceptance and understanding of the climate change issue in this show. Rail has great potential to be a part of the UK's response to the unrolling crisis, so we need to have policies in place to make sure that happens.

[@GreenSignals]

Totally agree, though not everyone did……

[@cannyexplorer5357]

I got just as good experience and seeing the fabulous views from the Scot rail service that runs on the same track at a fraction of the cost. If you have one of the railcards then even cheaper. We live near another wonderful steam train line who has wonderful sea views. They sorted out the new regulations years ago and now are going strong.

[@jrail1992]

Re quiz: Colchester is the answer I'm submitting with a combined lenght of 620m (platform 3 & 4). Gloucester apparently is 603m. Thank you for another engaging episode.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to see if we agree re the platforms!

[@superted6960]

I've had a quick look at some of the information available online re the Jacobite. The claim from West Coast, when this kicked off, was that fitting a rake of stock with cdl would cost about £7m. It also (allegedly) carries about 750 passengers a day over the summer months. Assuming these figures are ball park correct then if ticket prices were raised to cover the cost of installation, repaid over 1 summer season it works out at about £52 per head. It would make sense, of course, to discount it over a longer period, but even a 3 year horizon comes out at £17 a throw. The existing fares vary depending on what you buy, but taking the standard Adult Day Return of £65 this would represent a substantial hike. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done (far from it) but I can see it might put the current business model in some jeopardy. Assuming they can stump up the cash to pay for it in the first place. The cynic in me would say though that this is a management failing. If West Coast had read the runes many years ago, and put an implementation programme in place alongside the exemptions the work could have been done relatively painlessly and they wouldn't find themselves where they are now. Another great podcast, highly informative, although I suspect the quiz question might get you in bother again. Continuous platform or not? 😂

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks for the kind feedback. And as for the quiz question, “bother” is my middle name…..😊

[@willseward8856]

Longest operational railway platform in the UK - Eurotunnel Cheriton ca. 790 metres.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to see if we agree!

[@wgj4813]

I have stopped going on the mainline behind steam. Steam has to be unassisted and if electric door locking is required it does not reduce the experience then do it even if the raiway authoroties decision is not well founded.

[@andrewhotston983]

The whole railtour experience is now unbearable - stay in your seat unless going to the toilet or buffet car. I will not pay well over £100 to be treated like a child.

[@peterharrison6696]

Re the Jacobite Saga maybe Richard can look at West Coast’s accounts and provide an accountant’s view of the company’s finances. From my non accountant look at them, they look pretty healthy so would fitting CDL wipe out the profit for the next however many years? Also, how many coaches does the figure of £7 million cover? There are lots of coaches at Carnforth which are very unlikely to move again : if they were included then the figure could well be £7 million but how many mark 1s are needed for the Jacobite? Based on 2 train sets probably 15 to 20 allowing for spares etc. I have seen a figure of £20,000 per coach quoted making about £300,000 to £400,000 which is about 20% of last years profit. Okay CDL may be a waste of money but it is a legal requirement so needs to be done.

[@mattjackson8226]

Great pod cast always enjoy it. There are a couple of points which I would like to point out: The West Coast situation is very much their fault as you have pointed out. However the CDL issue is not just affecting the Jacobite. West coast are also unable to run other trains which they operate in England for people like the railway touring company. How honest they are being with railway touring company I am not sure. The other point is about the overhaul of 60163 Tornado. There has been issues with the boiler and the welding as you have covered. However I believe that a lot of additional costs have come on this overhaul as they are fitting Tornado with the European Train Control System. Your coverage suggests the massive cost is purely just for a normal overhaul. But I expect a lot of the extra costs might have come from the fitting of ETCS. Might be worth checking that out with the A1 trust and do an update in a future episode on that. Will await the next episode

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Matt. We will be speaking with the A1 trust to delve a little bit more into what it takes to keep these locos running. They are doing some wonderful stuff up in Darlington.

[@stephendavies6949]

Regarding the quiz question: There is a debate on whether the answer is either Colchester or Gloucester. As I'm familiar with both, I'd say Gloucester, as the set up at Colchester is a bit strange, and the 1 "Platform" is actually 2 separate structures. More controversy for Mr Bowker to deal with! PS: I know I can't win again, but it's still fun to compete 😊

[@michaelarcher6278]

Glad someone else thought the same regarding longest platform ❤

[@stephendavies6949]

@@michaelarcher6278 Great minds think alike!

[@GreenSignals]

‘Controversy’ would appear to be my middle name!

[@wartsilaone]

Colchester definitely has break between 3 and 4. I went for Cambridge but its still slightly shorter than Gloucester even with its recent extension.

[@Adam-pk2te]

Great episode as always nice to see Nigel back

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Adam!

[@driverskid]

The competition answer depends on how precisely we define a platform. The long ones at Gloucester and Colchester are both two separate end-to-end platforms in operational terms, though they are contiguous structures. If we count contiguous structures though, we then have to include both faces of island platforms etc! In terms of a continuous platform *face* though, I think it has to be platforms 1 and 2 at Gloucester. I think Colchester is longer, but IIRC it has a kink/step-back in it, separating the platform into two faces.

[@GreenSignals]

Contiguous. What a splendid word! Almost deserve to win just for that! Tune in next week to see where we think the longest platform is.

[@phaded71]

I have been lucky enough to spend many hours with Mr Pennington in meetings, with many of his equally talented opposite numbers at other TOC/FOC's at several timetable conferences in the 00's (both in daytime plenary sessions, and afterwards at the social gatherings - one of note where both he and his brother, Nigel were holding court), and it has to be said both he and they would always find a solution to whatever timetabling challenge they were presented with - they made the Cross Country timetable work, when that was re-written, and they also helped to ensure the wider benefits of the west coast timetable were delivered, re-timing services of interfacing operators

[@GreenSignals]

It is good indeed that he is going to be helping pass on his knowledge and experience to the next generations.

[@billmmckelvie5188]

Sadly Donnie Airport, is surrounded by other airports, two to the North, which are in their catchment area. The big international one to the West and one to the South. I agree entirely with you about trains to airports. In my area Manchester has successfully done this, pulling direct trains from Newcastle and the surrounding area!

[@GreenSignals]

Stansted Express is another good example.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

According to Modern Railways the Midlands is booming. The public were told by the Tories that the North would be up levelled, so why isn't the urban rail network of West Yorkshire being electrified to take secondhand Electrostars from the London area? Where are the crumbs off the table?

[@heydon2012]

One thing that concerns me is the struggle for coal , and Chris who was in charge of the North Yorkshire moors railway , was a keen spokesman for the struggles for coal for the heritage railways , so I do hope now he’s left the NYMR he can keep up the momentum .

[@GreenSignals]

I believe the NYMR have a project underway to convert the WD North British loco Dame Vera Lynn from coal to oil fired. Be fascinating to see how that goes.

[@russellbenton2987]

For Quiz , how about Edinburgh Waverley . Certainly still operational and capable of holding two 801s. Great podcast again . Should be obligatory viewing for all politicians - probably is !

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Russell. In fairness, I do believe a good number of politicians and political advisers do listen which is rather flattering really but hopefully useful as well.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The airports in the northern regions could be scaled down, if the cross country rail services to Manchester International were equal to the London airports.

[@ayindestevens6152]

Hey Green Signals Team love the podcast greetings from the states.

[@GreenSignals]

Hello! Where abouts in the States are you joining us from?

[@ayindestevens6152]

@@GreenSignalsNew York City the big Apple!

[@GreenSignals]

Fantastic! Well, you're very welcome. Hope you're enjoying the show.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The recent Baden Wurttemberg Government Report has stated that fully electric trains are cheaper than bi-modes and hydrogen on most routes over 30 years. It would make sense, therefore, to cascade redundant Electrostars from London to West Yorkshire rather than procuring new bi-modes and hydrogen trains.

[@simonaltham9054]

Flights from Birmingham to Heathrow stopped in the early 90's, I used to be a regular as I worked for a company owned by British Midland and didn't have to pay much, if anything, for it. Birmingham to Newcastle stopped about 10 years ago as they couldn't get enough passengers to make it pay.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Simon. Agreed. I think the chap on KZbin was suggesting he’d like to see them again……!

[@andrewhotston983]

West Coast Railways is a cowboy operation, and the ORR is ridiculously bureaucratic - a nightmare combination.

[@gzk6nk]

Good news on Euston. Now how about reversing Sunak's ludicrous Handsacre decision?

[@adrianbaron4994]

Lets hope that under the next Labour government , due soon, Handsacre will be built as designed so that the continuation of High Speed services to Manchester can happen, and that HS2 trains coming off or onto the WCML feed directly into the WCML Fast lines. The land is there, the plans are there....and as for the money, well if £37 Bn could be found for a phone app that never worked during Covid, it can be found for this essential future - proofed junction. GB is the sixth largest economy in the world and not, erm........say, Rwanda.

[@v1v3k31]

And grade separating Colwich Junction. It's insane that this wasn't considered when designing handsacre

[@gzk6nk]

If HS2 phase 2a is reimplemented Colwich can remain as it is.

[@v1v3k31]

Colwich would still be a bottle neck. Maybe not immediately after HS2 operational however the new flows years from now would incrementally eat up capacity

[@don1estelle]

Many years ago my Grand fartther told me that Pontypridd Station is the longest station in Britain ( quarter mile ) and the highest in the world! It being above the half moon and Below the morning Star! Public houses. Sadly the half moon is no longer standing and the morning star is not a Pub any more. 😢 Waterloo Int, beat it when Euro Stars started running So id say St Pancras International is now the longest but im probably wrong! Phill

[@TheDaf95xf]

Welcome back Nigel 😊 As always a great podcast about our fantastic railway bringing us great information and humour 😂 Not that we don’t like you Nigel but Steff was awesome 🤩

[@GreenSignals]

We love Nigel. And we love Stef too! It’s at great team to be working with, thanks for the kind feedback.

[@callumthornelow2936]

In terms of content for your show, the Jacobite must be the gift that keeps on giving?

[@GreenSignals]

That's certainly one way of looking at it!

[@matt34028]

Just gives these guys an opportunity to bitch

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The Government appears on the brink of offering a reprieve to Alstom (helped by Green Signals recent interview of the CE) for the delivery of further EMUs for the London area. The order will likely result in the availability for the cascade of more high mileage Electrostars EMUs for less intensive service in the provinces, providing of course, the local lines are suitably electrified.

[@chrisonabike]

Is it at Scarborough Station?

[@antcraft3590]

It depends what would exactly be meant by the longest platform. If we're talking about the longest single face platform, then that'd be my local station of Gloucester at 602m, consisting of platforms 1 and 2. However, if we include platforms consisting of more than 1 face, then I believe that would go to Colchester, with platforms 3 and 4 creating a total length of 620m. Glad to see the Gov finally see sense and decide to just build the tunnels to Euston themselves - a small, but needed, win for HS2 as a whole. Now if only they could see more sense, and build the original plans for Handsacre Junction that connects straight to the fast lines - crucial to maximising capacity with no plans to do the other phases in my opinion.

[@GreenSignals]

Some great analysis there re platforms. Tune in next week as they sa6 to see if we agree!

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Should the ORR have more investment frameworks of urban electrification to match ofgem, e.g., Green Links 1 and 2?

[@grahampearce8145]

Re Jacobite. If Smithy still has a say how things are done in WCR, this is why they are in this mess with the ORR.

[@stephendavies6949]

WiFi on the railways is embarrassing. As you say, good WiFi is a hygiene factor these days, for both business and pleasure travellers. Anyone who doesn't understand this must be living on the moon. 5G would be great, but 4G would be just fine for now. The worst in my experience is on the British side of the Eurostar route. It improves slightly when in France, but not by much. But there are many others that are close behind. Having said that, Greater Anglia's seems to have improved recently. WCR needs to dump its Group-think on the Jacobite CDL issue, before it ends up losing this lucrative line of business to one of its eager competitors. Keep up the good work.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks for the kind feedback!

[@markstrainsplanes]

Longest platform - single face is my station at Gloucester with 602m although there is a longer platform at Colchester with two faces at 620m

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks - we will reveal all next week.

[@markstrainsplanes]

@@GreenSignals But you didn’t appreciate my video it appears!!!!!!!

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Similarly, the Robin Hood Airport is justified because the old main line between Doncaster via Wath and Barnsley remains disused.

[@geoffreybrown7235]

Re your recent short criticising domestic air travel. Perhaps we should, at the same time, suggest a ban on polluting steam traction and force train operating companies to use electric locomotion when under the wires. Or are you suggesting that only these should have s choice?

[@GreenSignals]

I think it's a relative question. Whilst I accept it's always a challenge when it appears there are different rules for different groups, the reality is in terms of emissions, steam trains (to use that example in particular) emit a tiny fraction of annual emissions compared to aircraft. I doubt it's even a rounding error, the percentage will be so small. As to electric trains, fair point and indeed there is considerable effort going into promoting not just electrification infrastructure but also the use of bi-mode and Battery electric trains, accepting that batteries bring challenges of their own. Thanks for your questions though. Cheers.

[@jasonmatthews5173]

Gloucester is the longest platform. Two hsts could occupy the platform plus a 2-car DMU. (18 coaches.)

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks! Tune in next week to see if we agree…..!

[@alexmckenna1171]

I can see Euston being mainly composed of tongue-and-groove planks and 4 by 2 supports. With wavy plastic roofing sheets. Good enough for the Victorians!

[@Samson47088]

Longest continuous I would say is Gloucester but could be argued that Colchester is but this one does not have a continuous platform edge

[@GreenSignals]

Certainly those two are very popular candidates! Tune in next week to find out……

[@brahnseer3512]

Have you any thoughts about the experiment being carried out by Scotrail regarding all fares being charged at off peak rates. Unfortunately not all of the timetable gets this benefit. I believe the six months experiment ends in September.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

An Airport on Teeside is used for holiday flights due to the poor rail service between Middlesbrough and the Manchester International Airport. Perversely, the local Mayor of Teeside is adding to the issue by favouring uneconomic hydrogen trains, instead of electrification.

[@davidwil58]

Isn’t there an hourly service from Middlesbrough to Manchester airport?

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Yes, however, it takes roughly 2 hours by car and three hours by train to get to Manchester Airport.

[@KlausEldritch]

Great show I think the answer is hloucester as the longest platform

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to see if we agree!

[@Johnk1sedg]

Thanks

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks very much John, that's very kind of you.

[@blairleipst4508]

Longest platform is Colchester at 620m, unless you meant the longest continuous platform then that is Gloucester at 602m

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Let’s see if that’s the correct answer. Tune in next week to find out…..

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Upgrading the important Hope Valley freight line between Sheffield and Manchester will not in itself resolve access to the airport as a cheap and cheerful alternative to reopening the more direct Woodhead route.

[@allanmorton6022]

No real national plan on airport locations, there are probably too many already. There used to be a flight from Edinburgh to Glasgow as part of a longer trip, hardly gets in the air! Good analysis on drivers conditions and why politicians should really avoid generalisations but they can't help it. Good news on HS2, can't really not build a station now that the tunnels are coming. Jacobite is a case of self harm. Great trip although my journey on it suffered from poor weather and dirty windows. Still enjoyed it though. Shocking customer comments letting down the whole of Scotland not just the one railway trip. I wonder if they licence anything Harry Potter related officially from Warners which could be revoked? Wifi is expected as you say, and better than today's offering. Great interview with images of real engineering drawings and really good point about single line working being avoided despite its benefit to the passenger. Gloucester is my answer to the quiz as I'm ignoring non continuous platforms. Great episode as ever!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Allan. Good points all.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

To be able to force passengers off aircraft and on to trains for short domestic journeys is all very well if you have a decent rail service. Routes out of London termini are generally pretty good and I’d prefer to take the train between, say, Euston and Manchester(I hate airports with a passion). However, cross-country travel is often a long-winded affair on cramped and often overcrowded trains with far too few carriages and frequent cancellations. On HS2 it would have been madness to terminate at Old Oak Common, so I’m pleased it will now go into Euston as originally planned. But then it’s madness to have cancelled it north of Birmingham. It virtually destroys the cost-benefit analysis.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Agree with the frustration that cancelling HS2 north of Birmingham made the problem much worse.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

If you live in north Lincolnshire and parts of South Yorkshire, including Doncaster it can be easier to take a train south and fly to an overseas destination from Gatwick rather than catching a train to Manchester Airport. I have actually sat next to a passenger on a Harrogate to London service with a passenger from Doncaster taking a fly cruise holiday from Gatwick rather than from Manchester.

[@grenfellroad8394]

We have issues in our control with inexperience and lack of knowledge about how railways work. Experience is truly priceless.

[@GreenSignals]

Absolutely. You can buy many things off the shelf. But not experience. That has to be earned.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

It would make sense to have an airport, east of the Pennines, with good rail connectivity, for international flights, e.g., at RAF Church Fenton

[@ianwalker2250]

quiz answer - colchester at 620m akthough technically this is two physical platforms meaning that the longest single platform is Gloucester at 602m

[@silkmoth6316]

The longest single operational station platform in the UK is Gloucester

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to see if we agree!

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Should the ORR take a leaf of the ofgem book, i.e., a more positive role?

[@jonathanratcliffe5714]

Is it Colchester?

[@stevenmoran4060]

Who cares where HS2 terminates when it doesn’t come to the north? The whole point was to create more capacity on the WCML which of course it won’t. The line should have built from the North to Birmingham to solve capacity issues. To the south of Birmingham there is already plenty of capacity and mostly 4 running lines. Oh of course, London gets more rail and us in the north have to do without. Southport to Manchester takes over an hour, it’s 40 miles! The journey was quicker in the steam days.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Upgrading the Hope Valley between Sheffield and Manchester is like saying we will upgrade the Calder Valley line between Leeds and Manchester via Rochdale while saying more direct route, via Huddersfield, i.e., TRU, cannot be justified.

[@gbphil]

Thanks for the mention as first story. You say you can’t justify and regions shouldn’t run a hub and spoke International Airport system to satisfy their regional ambitions? How do suppose trains and coaches operate in the UK? Your sustainable solution is bus or taxi to local train station, local train to hub, hub to London, tube connection, Heathrow express. ……… at what cost in time and money pulling up to 30kg of baggage each! Alternatively 2-3 hour drive to Heathrow, £300 in parking for many thousands of cars. Is that better than £30 taxi to local airport, checked in bags, wander around airport lounges until final destination and the ability to get home even easily in the middle of the night. The most apt criticism would have been how would you get another 100 flights a day into Heathrow without the third runway.😎😇

[@scottturner5655]

The longest platform is Darlington platform four , Cambridge and Gloucester are multiple platforms joined together (going for the pedant answer)

[@rafchris]

I wonder when like the aviation industry railways will move to contract drivers? No unions but pay drivers a day rate. Increase takehome by 50%, companies divest themselves of pensions, holidays and sick pay, no strikes and increase revenue. Worked for me! Drivers fund their own training with the companies too so they become cost neutral prpgrammes

[@amazoniaamazonia7225]

Increase take home 50% ?

[@rafchris]

@amazoniaamazonia7225 network rail already do it for maintenance and renewals staff as well as IT. Once you remove the final salary pension, free train travel, holiday and sick pay as well as certain employer taxes, they can offer an effective 50% increase in take-home salary and still be quids in with an in IR35 conctractor. Most of the management left band 2s at 80k on voluntary or compulsory retirement or redundancy and came back next day as 600 quid a day consultants. Also comes out of a different budget and doesnt count towards headcount, so hides staff numbers.

[@davidchandler7810]

Your assessment of the Jacobite/West Coast situation is fair in my opinion, the argument was had and lost in court. Though the legislation for CDL came in around 20 years ago, I don't think you can say the ORR have been asking for it on charter stock for 20 years. From what I have read it was around 2018 they started to talk about stopping giving the exemptions for railtour operators, following fatal incidents that were due to droplights rather than dock locks. Apologies if you have addressed this before (I haven't listened to the other episodes), but would you say the legislation is now being used far beyond its intended purpose, that being to get rid of the slam door commuter stock still in use in the early 2000s? I think it would be nice to have had a carve out written into in that legislation for heritage and charter operations, instead of the system of ORR granting exemptions to allow heritage railtours to run. All water under the bridge now. Of course those MPs who supported West Coast in the letter could propose that parliament changes the legislation, but that isn't going to happen.

[@physiocrat7143]

ORR is straining the Mark 1 gnats and swallowing the 800 series camels. Getting on and off the things is perilous due to the large step, narrow stepboard and badly positioned handrails. I wonder how many trips and falls there have been.

[@BenRattigan]

Totally agree, Teesside Airport is an utter waste of time and money. Improve Northern Rail connections to Leeds and Newcastle instead.

[@johnstorer7418]

Looks like Doncaster/Robin Hood airport will re-open in near future.

[@gwab100]

This weeks answer is Gloucester Platform 1/2 I believe

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to find out,

[@Richardhill1978]

I’m going with Gloucester which geographically is a small hamlet near Edinburgh but late to enter but never mind

[@GreenSignals]

Let’s see what the answer is next week Richard!

[@jonathandart3740]

Cambridge is my answer to this quiz.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to see if we agree!

[@stuart48br]

The light at the end of the tunnel for 5G is the inexorable march of mobile telecommunications technology. 3G is currently being switched off by the telecoms providers (it was launched in 2003); 5G radio receivers (for the on-train equipment) are currently expensive but will come down in price over next couple of years, as manufacturers start to replace 4G (launched 2012) equipment with 5G equipment in their catalogues. You can probably expect a wireless technology to last 20 years. The other issue to consider with moving to 5G on trains is 5G coverage on the routes; 5G rollout has started with towns and cities, so SWR's 44 miles probably has very good coverage but ECML and WCML will have big gaps. Worth noting that 2G is expected to last to 2033 because of its use in many data applications that only require low bandwidth such as train monitoring systems and smart meters, not to mention GSM/R.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks for the background - very interesting.

[@tonygillett6428]

Longish lower platform is york

[@terrymoore9388]

The easiest solution would be to withdraw a licence from WCR to run trains and let another operator take over the route.

[@mrcogginsgarage7062]

My vote for the longest operational platform would be Scarborough. Dating from when excursion trains used to be run.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks for the answer! You'll have to wait until the show next week to find out if you were right. 🙂

[@steamfan1991]

Yet again more controversial quiz questions, depending on how richard has determined length it is either Gloucester's Platforms 1/2 as it is one continuous platform at a length of 602 meters or it is Colchester's platform 3/4 with platform 4 being offset from platform 3 but still joined together at total length of 620 meters.

[@GreenSignals]

What I love about the quiz (and this question is a great example) is that it stimulates some great debate and demonstrates how much knowledge so many people have. Tune in next week to see which platform we think it is!

[@MervynPartin]

Good news about Euston- HS2 was pointless with it ending in Old Oak. Colchester Station has the longest platform- 620 metres.

[@adrianbaron4994]

I wholly agree. The idiotic spin the government tried to put on terminating at a station that was designed as a through station interchange and is being built as such has been found out.

[@Whiskey2shots]

Eurovision is possibly the highlight of my year most years!

[@dasy2k1]

It's not the same since it was presented by Terry Wogan starting off slightly tipsy and finishing barely able to string 2 words together coherently

[@Whiskey2shots]

@@dasy2k1 Terry Wogan was before I was old enough to watch but Graham Norton gives me a good cackle every year

[@GreenSignals]

Ah yes, happy days!

[@v1v3k31]

Would IoT enabled products help with this door locking situation? An idea is to install smart door locks that require no cabling. The locks are connected to a Local Area Network via WIFI Router. This does not need to be connected to the internet, provided the software allows offline operation. The hardware could be flashed in such a way that it does not allow unauthorised access. In power/function failure mode the doors stay locked and can be manually keyed.

[@GreenSignals]

Whether such a system would be signed off by the safety bodies I don’t know but it is very interesting indeed.

[@davidwil58]

I think most of us understand an average train driver salary by definition means some will be on a higher wage and some lower. But even the lower ones will be on a much better wage than most of the public. Thats fair enough, but maybe try to be balanced and investigate how many archaic, daft or inefficient working conditions are commonplace on the railway. It seems very reasonable to me for the hard-pressed taxpayer to expect some sensible savings and efficiencies to be made, where it is easy to do so, if the staff want a pay rise.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Is there renewed hope in the rail industry after the Government indicated it may bring forward an order for 10 new trains for the Elizabeth Line and that Alstom has secured a £8.8 million contract from C2C for a makeover of the high mileage Class 357 fleet. Subject, of course, to the Government agreeing to the acceleration of urban electrification of the North, does the recent news suggest that the high mileage Electrostars trains will eventually be cascaded to the urban lines of the North to make way for more new trains on the high intensity routes out of London, e.g., West Yorkshire?

[@clivebroadhead4381]

In other words is the makeover of the high mileage Electrostars a stop gap arrangement to increase the residual value pending an order of more new trains by C2C and other southern operators?

[@philkennedy709]

I don’t see the relevance of Richard’s comment comparing Drivers wages in the U.K. with Europe as if that was an apt comparison. There is quite a of variation in terms and taxation, conditions of service social benefits, pensions etc.

[@neilboulton9813]

They are extremely greedy and every one knows it, you can try and talk about other things such as tax/benefits to try and put up a smoke screen, but I bet they even work long hours on the continent as well as earn less. They are far from as qualified (a years training) as Doctors or Teachers and they want to be paid as such, and our tickets are more as a direct result. It is ridiculous and if only we could phase them out entirely by accurate signalling with driverless trains, but if not we should bring them in from Indian Sub Continent and pay them the average wage in this country and they would be over the moon as well as more reliable.

[@stewartlegg855]

My vote for longest platform is the down main platform at Bournemouth Central ( was platfrom 4 when I last visited ).

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. Tune in next week to find out!

[@BenRattigan]

Northerns wifi just never works. I do understand the pain of this, most of Microsofts 365 product lineup especially Teams is a massive draw on bandwidth with AI features killing it, laptops with NPUs hopefully will resolve this going forward. This has been painful in the construction sector post COVID with everyone going back to site and hammering Teams calls. The bandwidth demands have skyrocketed.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The ofgem approach: "The holistic Network [e.g., OLE] design should be seen as a departure from the more traditional incremental network build [i.e., rollouts] towards a more coordinated, top down network planning approach. It is considered that this new approach can deliver the network [i.e., Electrification] upgrades on a more programmatic basis."

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Lovely to hear Pennington emphasising that it is a network, that it has become so fragmented with excessive silo thinking.

[@nicholassunshine]

Colchester North

[@v1v3k31]

Longest Operational Platform: Colchester Town

[@GreenSignals]

Certainly Colchester is getting plenty of votes! Tune in next week to find out….

[@derekgibson7037]

Scarborough. 54:44

[@wartsilaone]

Cambridge maybe.

[@GreenSignals]

Or maybe not?😳 Tune in next week to find out!

[@johnnorman7044]

if i was a share holder of west cost i would be having a conversation with the directors or sell the shares quick

[@clivebroadhead4381]

The acceleration concept used by ofgem to meet the 2030 green energy delivery aims of the government can be similarly used to accelerate the OLE delivery aims of Network Rail with CORE.

[@Adam-pk2te]

Longest platform: would guess London Waterloo platform 24 because built for Eurostar but then St Pancras also has that although Sod’s Law it’ll probably be Euston but I’ll go with Waterloo 24 I know Scarborough has the longest platform bench tangentially

[@GreenSignals]

I think we may be hedging our bets a bit there…..! But I believe you are correct about the platform bench.

[@Adam-pk2te]

@@GreenSignals just weighing it up out loud lol!