HTC Killed Their Facial Tracker! Good Thing There's (WAY BETTER) Alternatives!

[@HDFoxra]

Don't really see an alternative here. Just a DIY Solution (which is pretty good at least lol). But 'buy a new headset' is never an 'alternative'. Spend 150 bucks for a 'face tracker', or spend 1,000 USD (plus tax) on a new headset? that's insane for a solution...

[@PaperFoxOrigin]

Wow, this video practically gave 0 alternatives other than buy a new headset or build one ourselves. Not everyone is tech savy and would rather go through HTC hell rather than making a potential pipebomb for your face.

[@Tomi-always-Tomi]

how can you explode a camera?

[@PaperFoxOrigin]

@@Tomi-always-Tomi High voltage.

[@Tomi-always-Tomi]

@@PaperFoxOrigin how the hell you do mess up so bad to put high voltage in a camera, when everything on a headset is low voltage not to mention you order things that will never produce high voltage in there normal use. Also you test that shit before you put it on. If you unable t do these proper steps I think I recommend you to not even plug in a connector like usb to anything and ask someone to do it for you.

[@PaperFoxOrigin]

@@Tomi-always-Tomi Took you a month to reply that? Also, there's literally warnings on these websites that warn you to get the right components and etc cause anything slightly off from the recommendations can either cause eye/skin damage from IR lights.

[@shadoudirges]

@@PaperFoxOrigin you are bathed in IR while in sunlight, it is literally why sunlight feels warm. So unless you are mounting a heat lamp to your face or are sensitive to sunlight, then I wouldn't worry about it. Yes too much IR is bad for your eyes, but that is because the lens in your eye works like a magnify glass to focus light... and the lens in your eye is not made of glass hence less heat resistant.

[@Maggashi]

Never had any problems with my vive face tracker. Running latest software with vrcft everything just works.

[@TahvoStudio]

I’d like to see a babble setup in action, bonus ducks if it’s easy to build

[@nordic-chan]

It is stupidly simple to build. Cheap too, probably $50 all in. That said, it also performs a lot worse than the HTC one in my experience.

[@zeicanofficial]

@nordic-chan exactly, as project babble uses a monocular camera setup (1 camera) as opposed to the HTC camera, which uses two, it's not as accurate, and slower on some cameras. though Project babble basically just requires a camera, so you can literally strap a cheap webcam on your headset and though crude, it will work decently enough.

[@CorpoWolf]

It's a Tahvo

[@redotix9952]

I have to say for the vast majority of users, both buying a quest pro or building your own solution are MUCH harder than the vive face tracker. Ive been looking into the quest pro but in Europe it still over 1K even on the used market. Not to mention if you want full body you still have to deal with janky softwate that combines your playspaces. So quest pro or vive face tracker, the software is very annoying.

[@Jacobfov]

Playspace calibrator is annoying, but lighthouse FBT is far from the only option at this point in time. There are plenty of IMU based options that look more than fine for use on something like VRChat.

[@redotix9952]

@@Jacobfov I personally disagree. I havent seen a single fbt solution that was even close to the accuracy of base station tracked fbt. I wouldnt want to downgrade

[@WispOwO]

​​@@Jacobfov if you use virtual desktop you can negate that issue with the setting center to playspace you only need to calibrate once and then you don't have to calibrate again till one of your base stations move on accident (I use a quest pro and the face tracking is eeh eyes can't cross and tongue only in or out no in between so its very stiff but its mostly the eyes for me that sucks also pupil dilation isn't a thing but that isn't needed at all)

[@Boo_Night]

​@redotix9952 ( this is a very expensive redundant solution ) if you buy a vive tracker and strap it to the top of a quest pro it can act like a base station headset and continuously calibrate the trackers

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

​@@Boo_Nightpeople complain the index is expensive today. Yet to have a quest 3 match it somewhat you need to spend a total of like 2000€ it's wild. And some things are still a side grade. Comfort will never be matched and the fov being low is also unfixable. But the screen is better... Index is impossible to beat fully. It can be beaten by some headsets in some departments but you're always giving up one luxary that's a given on a index

[@qx-808drake3]

While I am sad to see the vive face tracker die, I am equally frustrated that HTC did little to nothing to actually make it a product worth a damn. That being said, thank you for informing me of Project Babble, I am so glad projects like this actually exist to fill this niche. Great video again Jacob.

[@heartbroken3344]

Vive Facial Tracker is a whole lot more sensitive and responsive compared to quest pro

[@FlameSoulis]

Can confirm. Also the tongue tracking is actually... usable? The Quest Pro pretty much requires me to build a whole new profile just to get the animations right, exclusively for JUST that.

[@brooklynforge4591]

Never touching a facebook underpowerd, overpriced, standalone piece of junk headset

Based lol Though, while I share similar sentiments, it still must be acknowledged that Facebook did help bring more VR headsets into the hands of many. Effectively normalizing it while drastically bringing down prices. I'm still holding out for the Index 2 or Dekard or whatever they'll call it. If not, I may go back to the XRE as a balanced stand-alone/PC solution (they can be had for around 600ish on eBay and Amazon (though, I think the Amazon ones might be 'used'? They show them selling between 500-600).

[@bubbalu7443]

or a inside-out tracked headset, I don't wanna calibrate controllers/trackers, and downgrade my tracking.

[@grayson9803]

Who the fuck plays standalone vr lol

[@brooklynforge4591]

@@grayson9803 plenty of users in vrchat do.

[@shawn4116]

@@grayson9803 Uhhh pretty sure the majority of VR users. That's where the money is for developers these days. This isn't 2019. Though I definitely still prefer pcvr.

[@pracalt1051]

Quest pro is cool and all but I think the reason people buy the facial tracker thing is because u don’t have to change ur current headset to get mouth tracking Plus it would be cheaper if u do everything right Not everyone wants to get whole new headset just for face tracking and eye tracking There is also pico 4 pro which is cheap but that one will have more issues due to the fact that it’s china exclusive atm sooo yeah

[@Jacobfov]

Damn, if only I also talked about something that can be added onto any already existing headset

[@pracalt1051]

@@Jacobfov too bad nothing else exists yeah..

[@itsyaboijoeysalads6300]

htc is so ridiculous. literally had a monopoly on the entire segment they made, then just dropped it outta nowhere lol while i think babble is super cool, i dont think itll be nearly as popular as something like the face tracker. while im sure its not too difficult from a diy standpoint, it still isnt a single-purchase 'slap onto an hmd' product. While the omnicept is a specific kind of PITA, it took way more time getting that going with babble than it did to just throw a tracker on there + extension. sirnipple's been fine for me, same thing goes with adapters/extension cables.

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

Yeah and babble is worse. HTC had an monopoly on the best product available.... Instead of pricing it normally they killed it... Worst company ever. They won't last much longer before bankruptcy lol

[@MiMi-hj6fe]

well..i just got my hands on a htc eye pro..what can i use for mouth tracking??

[@cheapcrackers4772]

I was worried that you might have been referring to the unreleased Eye/face tracker for the Vive XR. With the new full body trackers out, it's actually shaping up to be a really good social VR headset, so long as the eye/face module actually comes out. But the face tracker for the Vive Pro 2? Without the eye tracking, that was dead on arrival, so no big loss.

[@ehwhat9034]

wai-there's no eye tracking feature for vive pro 2, does that mean the original face tracker only works with the eye-tracking version

[@cheapcrackers4772]

@@ehwhat9034 Face tracker is independent of eye tracking and can be used on its own on any headset. There are now some open source eye tracking solutions that are compatible with Vive pro 2, but you need to build the tracker hardware yourself.

[@Crecross]

Yeah there are alternatives, But why would I go out of my way and buy a q pro just for face tracking.. when I can just use my quest 2, index, or Varjo? The cool thing about the facial tracker, is that it worked regardless of what headset your paired it with.

[@Jacobfov]

Babble can be put on literally any headset for like 30ish bucks.

[@trashyone2907]

sup cre

[@Crecross]

@@Jacobfov Yes, but when did I ever mention babble? I'm talking about the quest pro? 😭💀

[@Jacobfov]

Yeah, but I did, in the video, the video that you commented on, right after saying something along the lines of the Quest Pro not being helpful if you wanna add facial tracking to the headset you already have.

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

You can seamlessly integrate eye tracking into the index without any external components sticking out, using the frunk usb department.

[@dukeofmof]

ello i'd like to ask does it work standalone without headshet?, i'd like to use it for unity project, i wonder if track eyes too!, thank you, its realy bugging me bcs store close to me still ahve stock of it

[@Jacobfov]

It doesn't track eyes, and I think it might be possible to use without a headset? I've heard of VTubers using them outside of VR with VirtualMotionCapture. That being said you'd probably just be better off making your project using an Iphone since that can do eyes alongside face

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

I wonder how good babble compares... It uses one camera... The rest uses night vision dual cameras with ir emitters and stuff for depth.

[@CashewChickenEnjoyer]

No. It's not. The only choice now is the Vive XRE or Focus 3 face tracking or Meta. Meaning anyone using NOT one of those headsets would have to buy a whole new headset for a ridiculous amount of money. The face tracker they killed was the only one compatible with the Index as well as many other headsets. It's not "good" they killed it. It's shitty they killed it, it was an intentional way to force people who want that feature into their own ecosystem and get more money. There's nothing good about it. It's anti consumer.

[@Fillenbillen]

Can someone tell me what I should do if I want face and eye tracking on my Quest 3 specifically? 😭

[@Misteurpro]

That normal than the whole community is mad, such cool product being stopped, yes i can build my own but i don't want to, or litteraly buy a new headset when i have one already, mine is really good but cost a lot and when the quest pro have the same features than mine and cost as much it hurt to pay the same price just for face tracking! That why modular part are amazing like face tracking just put it on your headset and done. if the software part is well made of course but still.

[@CJ821_]

Watch you on tiktok. Keep up the great content. I love your style of VRNews with the bluntness and honesty

[@Lulux6]

so any face tracking could work with quest 3?

[@valzzu]

Pcvr yes

[@Cryotix18]

i dont think a $1400 (cad) headset is the greatest idea for facial tracking lol. its good if you already have it but not the greatest alternative financially. i agree with the babble one though. i might actually try that if i cant find anything else

[@UR2EZ2SVEN]

Metaquest pro is not a viable replacement. Its just not. The battery life, the accessories to make it more comfortable. The constant, unreliable calibrations you have to do to make it work in steam with fbt or knuckles controllers... its just as much of a pain as reseating the htc vive facial tracker. There is no suitable substitute at the moment and likely not any time soon.

[@delahaije25]

my tracker just works. and babble wich i build and triend is leagues behind. and yeah the " buy a quest pro bro" is not an alternative. so yeah not alot of alternatives

[@CerealBowlSystem]

love your content!! and thanks for the info, i'll try making my own Babble rn

[@newtz.]

babble i can see being usefull. but not the quest pro. having a battery on the headset and having to deal with compression is the biggest deabreaker there is when it comes to vr

[@forgottenfox3857]

Skill issue. The HTC tracker was and still is the best way to add FT to any headset. "Most people" don't have these issues you mention, and recommending babble over the FT is like recommending you cut grass with scissors instead of a mower. For anyone else who stumbles across this video, find literally any other guide. This tracker is literally plug and play, and it takes a serious skill issue to mess that up.

[@Jacobfov]

"Find literally any other guide". I don't know what to tell you other than these quite literally are the only two viable options left unless you really wanna spend 3 or 4 hundred dollars on a probably used product that originally sold for 130 brand new. That price is only going to go up as time goes on. If you can still find a new one for 130, then please enlighten the world on where. I'm glad the facial tracker was plug and play for you, but that isn't the case for a lot of people.

[@Kitfoxdragon]

Got a source for HTC Vive Facial Trackers around the normal $150 MSRP? All the common sources are either bumped to $300+ or sold out with no time for restock.

[@valzzu]

Funny enough, friend found a store that had 12 in stock so i was why not and bought one even tho literarly would have everything for babble 🤣

[@KaijuKanojoClips]

What store??? I’ve been on the hunt for one and can’t find it anywhere

[@sylphiexie]

Same I’m still trying to find one that’s not sketchy or super expensive but there’s little to none

[@sylphiexie]

Atleast for the US

[@Foxtrot445]

You got a new subscriber! Very well made and unformative video! Thanks for the info!

This might be in preparation for the XR.E's F+E module that's been tight-lipped for a while. If true and they are going all-in on that module, that might speak to the kind of formfactor headsets we can expect from HTC going forward... Unless HTC just proving they're big-dumb and absolutely refuse to listen to consumer and prosumer feedback. Surely they wouldnt do that righ-- *remebers that the XR.E actually does exist* --oh... Well thats awkward 😳

[@Jacobfov]

I sometimes find myself wondering how HTC keeps themselves in business. They seem to have this track record of doing something well for a while, and then just completely falling off.

@@Jacobfov agreed but I think what keeps them afloat is their main company, HTC. Best analogy I can think of is Ford - Ford has the GT program (in this case Vive). Ford can afford to play and take a loss, despite polarizing critics of the GT program because the main company focuses on volume cars to support themselves and pay the bills. That comparison was a bit of a reach but I hope my pointe, about what I think is happening here, was clear. On a positive note; the Ultimate Trackers might also sustain them if they bring the price down a wee bit and if people start snatching them up like crazy. But that's just my hypothesis based on what I know and have heard through the grapevine thus far.

[@cheapcrackers4772]

I've been using an XR Elite as my main headset for a while now. It's a good headset now imo and nearly all the shortcomings have been addressed (including the QC issues on launch). The thing I've had on my mind for a while now is how the heck the eye/face module would even attach. The facial interface doesn't have any space to fit anything, so I'd have to assume the module would need a different one or be the facial interface itself (Which would make it hard to clean or replace). Maybe they didn't have this figured out when they launched, and that's why it isn't out yet.

@@cheapcrackers4772 The concept (allegedly) module can be searched with some crafty keywording on Google and Bing. Based on what I've seen of it, my hypothesis is it will be like a face gasket in design; much like the module for the Vive F3. I am curious though, when you say much of the shortcomings have been sorted, which ones are you referring to?

​@@cheapcrackers4772 Refer to my updated comment to Jacob. Like I explained in response to you before, it uses the aux USB-C under the gasket :) but at 200usd entry, that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out with crowd reception