Hubie Brown on 1993 MVP Race

[@JustNeedaBeerandPark]

Had Mj not retired, the 1994 Rockets and 1995 team would've beaten the Bulls in the championship!!!!

[@saturndual32]

Its a shame that the 2 best players from that generation, Dream and MJ, didnt get to face each other multiple times in the finals, ala Bird and Magic. It would have been amazing.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

It would have decided everything.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Dream was arguably no. 1 of the Jordan and Hakeem era after 1984-85 and 86. Thru to 87 as well. 88 Jordan began to cement himself and the era as his as the #1 guy in all the lands. Hakeem's experience from 88 to 92 as a member of the Rockets really hurt him here. Still, in 89 and 90 he was still better all around than Ewing and Robinson his fiercest Center rivals and Jordan hadn't won a title yet either so the era was still virtually up for grabs as Isiah Thomas chilled the legacies of Bird and Magic for Jordan, Hakeem or Barkley presumably to takeover and challenge Bird and Magic's 8 rings. 91 Hakeem struggled to really dominate the scoreboard as he was capable and as he'd really begin doing by 93 and in 91 and 92 he was arguably less a MVP than Robinson and Ewing. In 92 Robinson averaged 23 ppg and Ewing 24 ppg and Robinson had 2.3 stls and 4.5 blks with more rebounds by a hair than Hakeem while both Ewing and Robinson shot higher % than Hakeem. Ewing's defense was never too shabby either and he had his 92 Knicks team challenging the best 92 Bulls to 7 games and he beat the 92 Pistons in the first round. The Knicks were going somewhere. The Spurs were just getting going with Robinson and he was a Terminator on both ends and younger than Hakeem... Hakeem was conceivably slipping. 21 ppg for two straight seasons? After being from 86-90 a stronger 23-25 ppg player? Then 93 came and Hakeem made Houston a real contender again, but he didn't beat Seattle for a chance at Barkley and MJ... If Hakeem beats Seattle 93 then 93-95 changes dramatically. Hakeem maybe takes back that era and becomes King 👑 even over Michael.... Barkley was always arguably the greater star ⭐ than Hakeem with the brighter smile and All American braggadocious arrogant ignorance that we gravitate towards. But Hakeem was the sleeping giant that could have owned the era for centuries had a few things changed differently from 88-98... Even if only from 93-98.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Kevin Johnson amounted to one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA (he iced the Lakers' leading scorer, Sedale Threatt, in the 1993 First Round), Frank Johnson and Negele Knight constituted solid point guard defenders, Dan Majerle made the All-Defensive Second Team in 1993 for the second time in three years, and West and Miller were both effective shot blockers and defensive centers. In fact, West led the NBA in total playoff blocks in 1990 and Miller would do so in 1993.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Wow Jason Kidd making a stubborn bid for greatest Suns of all time. He wants Barkley and Nashs head. New Jersey isn't enough. And also doesn't exist anymore.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Most of them possessed a case that was almost as good as Barkley's, if not better, and if anyone was "robbed," it was Michael Jordan, who averaged a league-leading 33.6 points and a league-leading 2.8 steals with averages of 6.3 assists and 6.9 rebounds while shooting .526 from the field, .376 on threes (3.0 FGA per contest), and .848 from the free throw line in leading Chicago to 55 wins.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

57 wins. Barkley 62 wins yes he was not better than Jordan in 93. Ewing 60 wins Jordan 57 wins and was arguably still MVP the NBA was just positioning itself for a removal of power from Jordan and the making of a new King 👑... Hakeem 55 wins Seattle 55 wins Cleveland 54 wins Funnily enough the 93 Rockets had the leagues 4th best record overall but only had a +347 point differential between them and their opponents whom only defeated the Rockets 27x on the scoreboard collectively all season. Phoenix, Seattle had a near or @600+ point differential, Chicago had a still impressive like 560-580+ point differential and New York even with their slow down lack of color and variety offense of Ewing post or Starks pick and roll, had a +500 point differential and Cleveland with one less victory than Houston still had a 525 to 540+ point differential... Houston was a hair of their teeth squad in 93. In even 94 they stay rather disproportionate in point differential to their win loss record which is curious to say the least. They maybe the greatest example of playing to their opponents but still managing back to back titles. Unlike Phoenix of this era who could run you and outthree you off the court by the 4th qtr. Or Seattle who could turn you over into a blowout. Or Chicago who could clamp 🗜️ you and spurt runs at you until you were unconscious... Or Cleveland who could ball possession you into videotape session studying their offensive skill and clinical precision. Or New York who could just stop your offense for entire quarters at a time. The Rockets just seemed to play you 80-77 or 130-126 and somehow be comfortable playing how you wanted to play and could do it better than you... These 93-95 Rockets r an incrediblly mysterious championship 🏆🏆 team.

[@FuShengAlex]

This is a good video....contrary to those revisionist Jordan Jockers that feel Hakeem only became great once Jordan retired. He was a better all-around player than MJ at that stage before he took his sabbatical....the only difference between winning and losing a title that year is Jordan was running with the core of a 55 win team without him whereas the 92-93 Rockets would've been lottery bound without Olajuwon.

[@mandodelossantos2]

Oh to be young again lol

[@joekiddlouischama]

In 1993, Olajuwon averaged more rebounds (13.0) than Barkley (12.6) despite playing alongside another very good rebounder in Otis Thorpe. Barkley had constituted a much better passer earlier in their careers, but in 1993, Olajuwon developed into an outstanding passing center. If Barkley remained better in that area, his advantage was no longer very large and more importantly, Olajuwon was not a ball-stopper like Barkley.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

What was the PPG difference? Apg difference? They matched each other pretty well here. Barkley a few more assists, Olajuwon a few more points.

[@joekiddlouischama]

One could consider their matchup a draw in terms of offense and rebounding, but Olajuwon owned Barkley in defense by miles, so how could he have been less valuable? Olajuwon averaged a league-leading 4.2 blocks, averaged 1.8 steals to boot, and led Houston to the number-three ranking in Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions).

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Hakeem's defense is often the great equalizer or exploiter.

[@joekiddlouischama]

... yes, that is true. However, one could argue that Olajuwon's ability to lead Houston's reversal of fortunes the next season with basically the same cast (plus the addition of a rookie Robert Horry) proves how impressive his 1993 season happened to be.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Robert Horry was a rookie in 92-93

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Cassell was the Rockets standout rookie in 93-94... Horry the standout in 92-93... Elie a valuable role player added with Cassell in 93-94. Maxwell and Smith joined in the early 90's... And OT was a Rocket since 89 or so... Herrera was on the team for a minute around same time as OT Maxwell and Smith. They had begun building the championship roster from about 89-93... With pieces moved like Sleepy Floyd, Buck Johnson and Winston Garland...

[@SeecretWeapon]

1993 OLAJUWON VS BARKLEY FIRST FACTOR , Team success! Suns had MORE wins. 62- 55 Suns +5 wins above PW. Houston +2 Suns #1 seed, Houston #2 seed Suns +6.66 Margin of Victory Houston + 3.57 Suns 6.27 SRS Houston 3.57 EVERY indication of Team success favors the Suns GREATLY. This is the # 1 factor when determining MVP. Team success and the player who had the most impact in contributing to that success Barkley / Olajuwon 1993 stats PPG: 24.5 / 26.1 RPG: 11.7 / 13.0 APG: 4.8 / 3.5 SPG: 1.5 / 1.8 BPG: 0.9 / 4.2 FG%: 52%/ 52.9% PER 25.9/ 27.3 Avg. Game Score: 22.55/ 23.77 EFG 54.5%/ 52.9% O rating: 120/ 114 D rating : 103 / 96 Double-doubles = 55/ 71 Triple-Doubles = 5/ 0 20pts+ 20+reb games= 3 games/ 2 Olajuwon has BETTER stats! ON THE SURFACE! Olajuwon played 39.5 minutes per game Barkley 37.6 min per. What an extra 2 minutes? A LOT! over 75 games it can be many possessions Look at their numbers over equal minutes Barkley: 24.5/ 11.7/ 4.8/ 1.5/ 0.9 Olajuwon: 23.8/ 11.9/ 3.2/ 1.7/ 3.8 or production Per 100 possessions Barkley: 32.7/ 15.6/ 6.5/ 2.0/ 1.2 Olajuwon: 33.6/ 16.7/ 4.6/ 2.4/ 5.4 the difference isn't that much! though Olajuwon is BY FAR the more dominant player on Defense which is HALF THE GAME. but this is an MVP.= value comes from Teams success first and foremost! Even though Houston had MORE SUCCESS than Phoenix did from the previous year. i fukin hate WS stat. but in their Wins i look at what the players actually did Barkley/ Olajuwon stats in games their teams won. Wins: 61 / 55 MP: 36.5/ 39.1 PPG: 25.6/ 26.9 RPG: 12.3/ 13.2 APG: 5.1/ 3.7 SPG: 1.5/ 1.9 BPG: 0.9/ 4.3 FG%: 53.2%/ 53.9% avg Game Score: 22.95 / 25.32 *(to give a comparison Durant in 2014 had an average score of 24.86/ Lebron's best year ever was 25.58 in 2010) Olajuwon was BETTER! but there are many instances where a player is better and the MVP is given to the player on a team with a better record. Olajuwon is better than Barkley this year, doesn't mean that he should get the MVP. There was a guy in Chicago who was pretty good this year also.

[@nothingdefaced]

But if the meaning of mvp is actually "most valuable player"... The Suns had a loaded team. Without Barkley, they still win maybe 40 games. What does Houston do without Olajuwon? Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, and Vernon Maxwell??? What does New York do without Ewing? Charles Oakley, Charles Smith, and John Starks??? Maybe 30 wins?? All perspective i guess.

[@sportingminds3311]

@@nothingdefaced but again, all that matters is if it translates to wins. Barkley was the most valuable player on the most successful team that year.

[@joekiddlouischama]

But behind Barkley early in the season, the Suns squeaked out a bunch of wins against middling-to-poor opponents; there was nothing "strange" about it, especially when you consider that over the previous four seasons with K.J. and without Barkley, Phoenix was the only NBA club to win at least 53 games each year and reached multiple Western Conference Finals.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Years ago before the revival of historical accuracy fans and ex players even members of the early 90's Suns were quick to promote Barkley as a routine savior of a fledgling Suns franchise who needed his star ⭐ to find their way and he made them contenders.... It was a ploy to accentuate Barkley's value as a dream teamer, a 50 greatest and arguable greatest PF ever. He didn't win in Philly. Oh that because Moses trade, Dr. J was old and retired year 3. Mike Gminski, Johnny Dawkins and who's who's. And he didn't win with Drexler, Pippen or Hakeem in Houston BUT BUT he did make Phoenix relevant and competitive contenders ... Psych. They were already knocking at the door a few times. He was the sledgehammer they needed to open it but immediately after they opened it they were kicked out and never returned to the party.

[@KarlMalowned32]

@saturndual32 Bulls/Rockets in 97 would have been a clash of the Titans. it certainly would have been a terrific series

[@joekiddlouischama]

Realistically, Olajuwon indeed should have received the MVP Award, with Jordan second and the actual recipient, Barkley, finishing third or fourth. Olajuwon and Barkley possessed similar value offensively and on the boards, but Hakeem arguably amounted to the best defensive player since Bill Russell, whereas Barkley was largely a defensive liability. Plus, Barkley enjoyed much greater offensive talent around him in Phoenix, especially Kevin Johnson.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

You can argue KJ is the third best player between Houston and Phoenix in 93. Barkley is also a sort of underrated defensive talent as he could make big plays and come up with key stops. He was even an explosive defensive player early in his career. After Hakeem Barkley and KJ it would probably be an argument between Otis Thorpe and Dan Majerle for fourth and fifth best players on either team.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Olajuwon possessed better defensive teammates, but he was the one providing most of the defensive "help," not vice-versa. And Barkley's defensive deficiencies were somewhat covered by the Suns' centers, Mark West and Oliver Miller, both of whom were good defensively. As I've said, Barkley's case wasn't bad because he was the best player on the team with the best record. However, that criteria is rather simplistic and Olajuwon made a greater overall impact on the game due to his defense.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

And the Suns were perennial 55 win teams from 89-92... Barkley joined a winner. He rode their coattails as much as they did him. Barkley was just real popular. He was and is real All American... And he was a black Bobby Knight in the 92 Olympics and he was cosigned by 1950's greaser wanna bee Chuck Daly... He was America's man even more than Jordan circa 1992-93... Hakeem was always the best or 2nd best player of his generation and maybe ever. He just had some unfortunate team circumstances from 88-92 that quieted a significant portions of his career. His defense is all time best ever. His offense had it's woes but his offense was better than Jordan's defense to his offense, and Barley's defense to his offense and Bird's passing to his shooting and Magic's scoring to his passing. Hakeem is greatest all around NBA baller ever. Unfortunately his prime from 84-97 was abbreviated by some unnecessary hardships the Houston Rockets faced. In 94 and 95 Hakeem saved his legacy and got at least the same amount of rings as Isiah, one less than Bird and trailed only Jordan, SHAQ and Magic of his generation from 80-02... U wrote a nicely written opinion up top. The paragraph just looks pretty.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

What's worse is the DPOY awards the NBA has given to Rodman and Draymond types who quadruple single or grab 12 boards in 32 minutes and are 6 men who in spurts guard Magic Johnson's and Larry Bird's tightly and harass them spectacularly but without much turnovers caused, shots blocked etc .. Hakeem was leading the league in Steals + Blocks pretty much every season from 86-94... The Cooper's, Rodman's, Robertson's as special as they were they largely were awarded for their special teams roles while ignoring every down guys like Hakeem and Pippen and Jordan and David Robinson and Ewing... Guys who on top of physical man to man harassment, could jump passing lanes, block shots, create turnovers into points, and still score and rebound 🪃 elitely... But you know those Gen X'ers and their stupid consolation trophies to spread the wealth. They pretend they're not socialists even a lil bit but they lie 🤥 to themselves.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Yeah, the Rockets possessed somewhat more continuity to its roster, but on the other hand, their chemistry hadn't been very good and on the Suns, Kevin Johnson, Tom Chambers, Dan Majerle, and Mark West had played in two Western Conference Finals and three Western Conference Semifinals together. Cedric Ceballos had also made multiple playoff appearances and played in a Western Conference Semifinals with that group. Conversely, none of those Rocket players had been past the First Round together.

[@SeecretWeapon]

1:15 Hubie Brown thinks he knows so much THE YEAR BEFORE David Robinson finished TOP TEN in FIVE categories! 8th PPG 4th RPG 5th SPG 1st BPG 7th FG% joining only TWO other players to have EVER done that LARRY BIRD and CLIFF HAGAN ( Hagan played when stats were unreliable and inconsistent so we really don't know) TWO PLAYERS! thats it!

[@joekiddlouischama]

Conversely, the only past, current, or future All-Star on the Houston roster besides Olajuwon was Otis Thorpe, who merely constituted a one-time past All-Star. Barkley played with vastly greater offensive firepower than Olajuwon, plus two shot-blocking centers in Mark West and Oliver Miller who helped compensate for Sir Charles' defensive liabilities. Indeed, the defensive difference between the Rockets and Suns lay primarily in the difference between Olajuwon and Barkley.

[@joekiddlouischama]

And he led a less talented team that hadn't even made the playoffs the previous season to 55 wins; the previous year in Philadelphia, Barkley had taken a similarly mediocre type of roster to 35 wins.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Maybe you don't understand that Olajuwon led Houston to the championship in 1994 without another major scorer on his roster or how he embarrassed league MVP and former Defensive Player of the Year David Robinson in the 1995 Western Conference Finals, averaging 35.3 points on .560 field goal shooting while scoring at least 39 points four times in six games.

[@alec9tap]

But then you can use the argument that Houston being with each other longer than Barkley's Suns actually game them an advantage and made them more of a "team"(and even though Barkley had more offensive help,Hakeem had more defensive help,Horry,Thorpe,Maxwell etc.) and they still did have 7 more losses than the Suns...You do have a valid argument for Hakeem but you can make just as good a case for Barkley and when you have the best record in the league it's hard to argue against that

[@joekiddlouischama]

One could even argue that Barkley's case that season was slightly overblown by East Coast bias and whose "turn" you think that it may be does not constitute a credible way to judge the MVP Award. Granted, I don't think that Barkley amounted to a bad choice for MVP in 1993. He was the best player on the team with the best record, a fair framework that voters had used historically and that helped account for Magic Johnson's selection in 1990.

[@joekiddlouischama]

In 1993, Olajuwon actually shot a higher field goal percentage (.529) than Barkley (.520) and averaged more points (26.1) than Barkley (25.6) and calling Barkley the better scorer is pretty stupid. Barkley amounted to a great scorer, but if anything, Olajuwon proved even more unstoppable and his post moves were even more spectacular.

[@joekiddlouischama]

But examining matters rationally and objectively, there can be little doubt that Olajuwon was really the most valuable player in 1993 or that he at least proved more valuable than Barkley. Offensively and on the boards, their value seemed to be about the same: Olajuwon led slightly in points per game, rebounds per game, field goal percentage, and free throw percentage, while Barkley averaged 1.6 more assists and enjoyed a mild edge in True Shooting Percentage.

[@alec9tap]

I do not disagree with any of your points...

[@joekiddlouischama]

So there wasn't a dramatic difference between the defenders around Olajuwon and those around Barkley, but of course you are dramatically underplaying the day-and-night difference between Olajuwon and Barkley as defenders. Olajuwon arguably constituted the greatest defensive force since Bill Russell, whereas Barkley was one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the NBA among starting forwards.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Unlike Barkley, Olajuwon could not be occassionally contained by taller defenders; if Barkley constituted the superior scorer, then why did he fail to shoot .400 from the field nine times during the 1993 NBA Playoffs and why did he fail to shoot .430 from the field twelve times in those 24 playoff games when he was the current MVP?

[@Defender80s]

You are forgeting that Barkley had KJ for only 49 Games and the Strange Thing was that the Suns had a Higher Winning % Without KJ. Also Barkley was alreadly Robbed from the 1990 MVP so it was his turn. Offensively Barkley was a Better Scorer, Had the Highest Two-Point FG% of All Time at that Time. Barkley was a Better Rebounder, Creator and Passer. Hakeem was Better Defensively but his Whole Team was Better Defensively than Chucks.

[@TwoThreeForever]

I'm sure if the Bulls won at least 60 games that season & not 57 they wouldv'e given the MVP to Jordan. Just my opinion.

[@joekiddlouischama]

And, yes, Barkley proved incredibly efficient from two-point range, but his laziness and lack of discipline led him to launch over 2,000 career three-pointers while shooting a miserable .266 on threes, thus partly undermining his extreme two-point efficiency, especially in Phoenix.

[@joekiddlouischama]

Olajuwon made his moves, decisions, and passes quickly rather than holding the ball or slowly dribbling in a limited radius as Barkley did, a pattern that led to offensive stagnation and a bogged down effect. Unfortunately, you don't seem to possess the basketball knowledge and overall intelligence to understand something like that, or you're too prejudiced in favor of Barkley to care.

[@joekiddlouischama]

And Barkley was not "robbed" of the MVP in 1990, you overgrown child. Many different players posted incredible numbers that season, including Patrick Ewing, Akeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Karl Malone, and even Kevin Johnson and John Stockton.

[@alec9tap]

Hakeem didn't make the playoffs in 1992 as well

[@jasonelliott7977]

Coaching turmoil and turmoil with the owner.

[@joekiddlouischama]

... dude, please post your educational resume because you do not seem to learn. Indeed, you are analogous to a dyfunctional robot that ought to be destroyed. Yes, Barkley "only" had K.J. for 49 games, but Olajuwon had a player of K.J.'s caliber for 0 games! Barkley also had a current All-Star in Dan Majerle, two past All-Stars in Tom Chambers and Danny Ainge, and a future All-Star in Cedric Ceballos.