Huge Solar Panel Improvement Program has Started! Part 1

Today we have the HUGE Solar Panel Improvement Program starting at the Average Joe House!! The Goal is to FILL the ROOF with Solar Panels!!
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[@AdamDeLay07]

I had the same problems you did when I put my first array on the barn roof. Also had a big buildup of leaves and pine needles under the panels. While I thought it was "easier" it just cost me more time because I had to pull it all down and add a proper rail system. Thanks for taking us along! Looking forward to part 2!

[@Jimmeh_B]

Ay Joe! Personally, I wouldn't be worried about the fire risk from cracked vinyl, that's not gonna happen. I would however be worried about a fire from a fault condition at voltages approaching 500 DC.

[@AveRage_Joe]

TROOF!😬⚡️⚡️⚡️💥

[@terrytexas8257]

I remember when we all first started down this journey. Cheap DIY was the way to go, not really thinking about what the future might hold for us. Now that we are all more seasoned with tons of experience under our belts....we do get embarrassed at our once "proud of work". ;)

[@AveRage_Joe]

The good ole dayz😆

[@AveRage_Joe]

Im still a cheap ass tho HAA

[@slidewaze]

Of course it took a lot longer than you thought. You were filming. And for that we thank you!!

[@AveRage_Joe]

TROOF! And thank you!💥🤘

[@offgriddreaming5403]

Squirrel photo bomb 0.25 🤜🏼🔥🤛🏼

[@AveRage_Joe]

100% photo bomb lol. I almost did a zoom in on that part😆😆😆

[@soggyb4082]

I wonder if Rhino Liner would heal those vinyl cracked panel to ok status? I think it comes in a can now. Never used it myself. Cheap is good.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Its possible. I was gonna spray with flexseal🤷‍♂️

[@danielglang6312]

I would think that a solution to all the leaves and other junk collecting under the panels would be to place the struts vertically instead of horizontally. It would require a little more planning ti ensure that the edges of the panels line up with the struts.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah that is an option. Possible put them in the landscape orientation.

[@homdiddlyoh]

a quickie fix could be to add more wood blocks on top of what you got, just to raise it up a bit till you get the other equipment.

[@AveRage_Joe]

That is a good idea actually!

[@Hansen710]

a surge protector protects your items in the house from lightening.. they are in the building codes for new houses where i live.. a doctor just lost a x ray machine not far from me from lightening 150.000 € those money could have been saved for a few hundred euro for a surge protector

[@highflowhighflow9896]

In Germany its a rule to grounding the rails with 16mm2 wire to the mains groundbar, not for lightning but just to avoid other problems

[@AveRage_Joe]

Its the same here but for some reason most people here think its for lightning🤷‍♂️ I keep telling people to think of it as the air conditioning or some other appliance outside. All that metal needs to be grounded/bonded or in general ALL metal boxes cases ect need to be attached together indoors, so do all the items outside.

[@cgutowski471]

Your content rocks. Keep it coming. I’ve given up on DIY roof mount. Too much crap to deal with. Ground mount is much easier

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thank You! I would prefer ground mount!

[@timcat1004]

I installed 28 panels on my garage in April 2015. No leaks no debris yet. I used Schletter racking with shingle flashing kits and rails. So far the only problem I've had is two MC4 connecters went bad. All Enphase inverters. The micro inverters make it simple for detecting a problem using the Envoy. In your string system it could take you all day to find one bad connector.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Awesome! Ill have to look that racking up. I bet its nice keeping an eye on each panel!

[@whattheschmidt]

Nice to show the things not to do and learn from them. I read all the directions and it was crazy to me that my panels said to install 5" off the roof. I did just about that, probably 4.5" but it seems so high compared to my garage array. I have 2 arrays - 14 large panels covering south garage face, 8 smaller panels on my house roof near the peak of the back of my house. 5.4kw and 2.5kw, max I was allowed :). It's worth it to buy good racking and follow those systems, both of mine are Iron Ridge. Garage uses the small XR10 racking, my house uses the thicker XR100. I used 16x QuickBolt 2s with 3" microflashing for that 8 panel array - worked perfectly and I only missed 1 rafter and drilled right next to it and the microflashing covered that one error. No leaks. Good stuff!

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah we live and learn🤭 Iron ridge stuff looks SOLID. I would use them for sure!

[@Songomx]

Awesome, Joe!!! Loved this video and will probably love the other parts...!!! Very educational and shows everyone what NOT to do on a DIY install (the first one you did, I mean 😊). But now you have a lot of accumulated knowledge on solar photovoltaics... now you can show off all that...!!! Wish I could be there to give you a hand, Buddy!!!! Anyway, nice job and will be looking forward for parts 2 and 3...!!! Good Luck, man!!! 👌🏻👍🏻👋🏻👋🏻

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Man! Yeah I did and made a few errors lol but thats how we learn. I have for sure learned a ton since I "installed" this. Some of the new knowledge will be used and some wont lol😁😆

[@junkerzn7312]

For flat roofs you definitely want to angle the solar panels (raise one side), at least a bit. That will vastly improve air-flow, reduce the leaf accumulation issue from the wind tunneling effect, as well as improve energy production. Clips or zip-ties can be used on the undersides of the panels to raise the cabling up off the roof. If using zip-ties, you want fairly wide/thick zip-ties to avoid chafing from cutting into the cabling over time. If greater protection of cabling is desired, another option instead of sealed conduit is is to use braided sleeving. As long as it is out of the sun. i.e. its ok if it gets wet, any water that gets in will just evaporate away after the rain stops. And it is easier to clip or zip to the undersides of the panels. You already figured out that THHN is unsuitable for the roof. But those dinkle connectors don't look like they are environmentally sealed either... if not, they are a fire hazard and aren't suitable for the roof. Only environmentally sealed connectors, such as MC4s, are suitable up on the roof. I didn't see what you were doing inside but if you are paralleling strings be sure to use a solar combiner box with proper fusing. I've never seen cracked back-sides of panels before, ever. I don't know how that could have happened short of perhaps the panels over-heating... but even laid down flat there should have been sufficient airflow through those narrow gaps to avoid panel over-heating. I'm kinda scratching my head on that one. -Matt

[@emcsquare62]

Great job, Joe. I always enjoy following along. I'm almost convenienced to try solar myself.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks I appreciate that! You should do solar and do it yourself!

[@panospapadimitriou3498]

today i watched your video first i hope Andy's feelings won't get hurt!!!! nice stainless racks./// next week i make my arrays and it was extra motivating to push me do some progress

[@AveRage_Joe]

HAAA Im sure Andy would Approve. I need to stop over and watch as well! Are you doing roof or ground?

[@thedabbler2753]

If you want to feel better about your panel installation I can send you photos of mine! Thanks for the video. Looking forward to part two.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Lol you are just trying to make mine look good right😆

[@lloydprunier4415]

Sorry the roof started leaking, but thanks for showing this. I always wondered about how the roof would do under them. If I ever get panels I will put them on racks in my back yard. One of my neighbors has panels on their roof and I bet they have the same situation. Some company installed them several years ago and the husband passed away so I doubt if the widow will ever check them. I do know when driving by that the panels are covered with mold and who knows what.

[@AveRage_Joe]

I think if the roof is a "normal" pitch, it wouldnt be much of a problem. I would also think if a company did it, it would be off the roof a little moar but who knows right🤔

[@stans5270]

FYI - The pressure treated lumber will degrade when water gets into the grain. When installing it, have the grain run parallel to the ground, so the wood's grain doesn't soak in water. Trex would last much longer and is impervious to water damage. Better yet, use the "C" channel placed as a lift ("U" [_] ) so that longer lasting metal is in contact with the roof shingles, which will keep moisture from seeping into the wood. Rotten wood will damage your efforts. An upside of getting the panels higher would be more air flow underneath, which would keep them at a cooler temperature and a higher efficiency.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah true that wood will degrade. Some of them are allready. Honestly Im just gonna remove that and install the snapnrack mounts.

[@0xdeadc0de]

I hope the next parts of this project comes instantly so we can follow your work from the couch 🛋️ 😂 Thanks for your very good Videos & Description. Best regards from Germany

[@AveRage_Joe]

I hope the next part comes instantly too!😆 HAA just kiddn. Its all about the journey.....RIGHT🤔🤷‍♂️😆

[@SyberPrepper]

Thanks for the video! I learned lots of great tips.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@davidanstice]

Nice systems used. Thanks.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Mate!

[@LarryRichelli]

Why not put a racking system on the semi flat roof. That would not only give you a better angle to the sun and would be much more easy to maintain.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Will try to put them on all the roof😀

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Joe

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Wayne!

[@Lauren-ci6uv]

Make the Bond!

[@AveRage_Joe]

😲😲😲😲 GOOD ONE!!!!😆 I like it! Ill have to use that!😆

[@wallacegarciagarcia5557]

Beautiful ❤

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thank You!

[@clarencewiles963]

Experience, knowledge, and understanding! 😊

[@AveRage_Joe]

1 Hundred!😆

[@Bowhunters6go8xz6x]

On the leaf problem where wind blows leaves under the solar panels all you need to do is install an (aluminum or plastic trim strip all along the top) where the leaves are entering, also leaves may not be as big an issue up on the peak of the roof away from the trees. If you chose to do it some cheap aluminum door trim material attached to the top panel edge and held on by short self tapping screws or pop rivets can fix that issue! Need the bottom edge open to let out water. ---- Excellent call getting new hardware parts including larger gauge wiring as your system will lose less electricity with heavier gauge wiring. Should use at least PVC pipe or plastic conduit for your wire run (pipe chase) for each string of panels to keep the wires from chaffing on the roof shingles which could start a roof fire over years of chaffing. Sorry if i'm a nag ! LOL

[@AveRage_Joe]

I think I would add a "net" of some kind over a solid sheet unless I am misunderstanding. Only for cooling tho on my crappy angled roof. Yeah we might as well get all new wire, parts ect since we ripping it all up lol. Yes, for the wire runs from one string to another or to the roof box will be conduit. I guess I didnt say the words but thought I implied it. Maybe I didnt. 💥🤘

[@Bowhunters6go8xz6x]

@@AveRage_Joe - Oh Yeah - some window screen or netting would work and allow for better air flow while keeping out leaves.

[@RJ-cc1fz]

Bro, I build homes for a living.. that roof doesn't have enough pitch for shingles.. use metal, preferably standing seam if it's in the budget.. that roof will leak a lot sooner than u want it to with that little of a pitch with shingles..

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah I allways wondered. It use to be a tar and gravel roof. Anything should be better the that right? A metal roof would be sweet!

[@kennethalmond8922]

Near 23:30 you talk a bit about ground wire and lightning going inside one way or the other. I use these Midnite Lightning arrestors (MidNite Solar MNSPD-300-DC Surge Protection Device 300VDC) outside at the combiner boxes. There's one for each pair of wires leaving the combiner box -> charge controller, so in theory it will help slow things down before going into the house / charge controller inputs. What do you think about lightning arrestors?

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah lightning/surge arrestors are a must! I dont have any connected at the moment other then the one in my main panel. Good to hear you have some installed. I will install some when I can as wel get LOTS of lightning around here.

[@Shmade0304]

Joe if I lived near you I’d be helping you bang out projects like this in one day but you live far af bro 😂

[@AveRage_Joe]

I need the help on projects like this FO SHO lol. Seems everyone lives so far away🙄😀 Jimmy would help but he is at work during rhe day.

[@rodneyhunt]

Good job! My job time estimates are usually days off lol.

[@AveRage_Joe]

TROOF😆😆😆😆😆 Im like yeah this should take a few hours....4 days later HAAA

[@ursodermatt8809]

mate, if i remember correctly i asked you about leaves collecting under this array, which you denied. that was the reason i asked.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Oh....I dont remember🤔😀. It is 100% confirmed lol. If I said no leaves before, it might have been to early or I didnt have them at that time. I did lift the panels a while ago and didnt have any so not sure. The upper set doesnt get that much.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@AveRage_Joe would the blower help when regularly done?

[@AveRage_Joe]

It might. I will for sure be keeping an eye on it now.

[@offgridwanabe]

3.57 volts haha grab on to that (NOT) 357 volts be careful my buddy. Another great video. Ok I understand it now using the rapid shutdown works Thanks

[@offgriddreaming5403]

Black frame panels look so much better hey

[@AveRage_Joe]

Who knew lol🤷‍♂️

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

I love Love LOVE 60-Cell panels ... COOP ...

[@AveRage_Joe]

Is that what you are using?

[@vmoutsop]

Spray some flex seal on the back of those panels

[@AveRage_Joe]

I will do that! Then put them on a ground mount sometime.

[@vevenaneathna]

damn, nice job. maybe 2 pieces of pressure lumber or 4x4 lol

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah for sure lol. Dont do single layer😆😆

[@amio_roseto1]

Great video, do u have a video about the Tigo rapid shutdown? Are those been installed because of the shade ?

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks! No not a seperate video. These are the rapid shut down modules and are "required" by code when installing panels on a roof. The "shade" modules are optimizers. Those you can also get with the RSD function as well.

[@electro2606]

And if you don’t ground the metal parts you can get a shock i had this at work not fun when 500 panels give you static shocks

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yep, seems many dont understand this and think its for lightning. Im not gonna lie tho, I thought this way back as well😁

[@ricoma6037]

Is there a fireproof vinyl paint that can be used to reseal the back?

[@AveRage_Joe]

Could be🤷‍♂️ I was gonna use flexseal😁

[@citogrid]

You certainly seem electrically competent, but in many other ways you seem to go out of your way to find options on how to damage your roof under which you live... might be best to do some planning instead of improvising and 'see how that goes". You should: 1) remove all your panels and store them 2) fix the damage you've done to your roof 3) purchase a proper mounting solution fit for roofs with shallow pitch (ask a professional) 4) mount your panels 5) enjoy the benefits of doing something correctly!

[@AveRage_Joe]

Lol yeah thats true! We live and we learn!😆🤘

[@korishan]

Rustoleum will stick to pretty much anything!!! 😂

[@AveRage_Joe]

Good!😆

[@todamnbad]

I really enjoy watching all of your videos but would you pass inspection on your installation? Not questioning your work but just curious

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thank You! I would say probly not with the diy rack....or with the santan panels. Dont think the santan panels are in the UL range🤭

[@todamnbad]

@AveRage_Joe oh okay, I have a diy array but not on my roof, to many codes to follow, mine is safe but roof mounts are way more regulated in my area, I use Santan panels but I opted for the ones with the original stickers which has the UL info on them

[@toddwhite8149]

Mr Joe, I'm not sure if it is possible but can that old panel that's peeling be peeled completely off? Or is that there for safety reasons. What does it look like for a experiment let us know?

[@AveRage_Joe]

That vinyle is there to help seal the cells. Im gonna spray flex seal on them😁

[@mdunbar04]

👍👍👍

[@AveRage_Joe]

😆💥🤘

[@loucinci3922]

How old is your roof? Down here in south Florida, shingle roofs last about 10 yrs. Hmmm...

[@AveRage_Joe]

Its at least 10yrs old maybe a few older.

[@awbean5254]

AVERAGE JOE, 1. IS METAL EMT CONDUIT REQUIRED CODE FOR ROOF & GOING INTO YOUR HOME FOR HIGH VOLTAGE D.C. IN YOUR AREA? 2. WHEN READING TIGO DOCUMENTS THEY RECOMMEND INSTALLING IT AT THE TOP OR HIGHEST POINT OF THE PANELS, SO WATER 💦 DOES NOT FLOW INTO IT VOIDING THE WARRANTY. 3. YOUR OPTIMIZERS WILL BE NESTING 🪹 IN THE WET & DRY LEAVES 🍁, SO I HOPE YOU WILL BE INSTALLING THE SNAP & RACK TO RAISE YOUR PANELS OFF THE ROOF & ELIMINATE YOUR CURRENT DRY LEAVES 🍂 🍁& MOISTER SOLAR RAILS TRAP 🪤 THAT CAN CAUSE AN ARC FAULT FIRE 🔥!

[@AveRage_Joe]

Metal conduit is required when entering a building or structure. So once you go inside yes. On the roof, I think it can be either.

[@AlarmProGuy]

It can be exposed around the racking using PV wire but if it’s running on or across the roof metallic raceway is required.

[@AveRage_Joe]

I thought you could use pvc outside. Like the grey uv outdoor stuff. Thats what I was planning anyway🤐

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah the PV wire can be exposed around the racking but the runs no.

[@AlarmProGuy]

@@AveRage_Joe, not saying it wouldn't work but does not mean it's code compliant, some schedule 80 is rated for outside use at 600 volts but most schedule 40 is not rated for use in sunlight, just check the ratings. For me the cost is negligible compared to EMT and honestly I can bend EMT a lot faster then cutting and gluing and I get the added benefit of having a grounded metal raceway. Also the snap n rack that you have are pretty cool, I used them on my barn and no issues at all, went very fast .

[@paulcurtis5496]

Like# 1 - Woohoooooooooooo

[@AveRage_Joe]

BOOOOOOOM💥💥💥💥💥💥😆🤘

[@BajanAlan]

If u put pannels too high they become airfoils!

[@AveRage_Joe]

We have had some extream winds here(with tornado winds) and they have been solid. Not sayin they couldnt fly tho🤔😁

[@ursodermatt8809]

you might have to read up on the codes rather than watch what other youtubers do.

[@AveRage_Joe]

TROOF😆😆😆