Up to 80kWh of Home Battery Storage!

[@davidwebb4904]

The product is very affordable. Its the cost of the installers and bureaucracy that kills the idea for most.

[@DeveloperChris]

Home batteries are between 5 to 7 times more expensive than the same thing in a car. Make that make sense!

[@davidwebb4904]

@@DeveloperChris Tesla battery modules $100/KW.

[@freeheeler09]

In the US, Powerwalls are still about $900/kwh installed

[@davidwebb4904]

@@freeheeler09 That's why you learn to build your own

[@freeheeler09]

David, I’m not at all disparaging the idea of installing batteries. Affordable home and small business scale batteries will revolutionize and democratize electricity production and distribution. We keep hearing about sodium and other affordable chemistries.

[@pumpkinhead456]

I have a 55kwh Tesla battery pack from a Model 3 that runs my house with a Solax inverter - saves us a fortune!

[@genericuser2339]

Yeah I’d love to do this but have no spare battery pack and no idea how to do it!

[@MrNgo504]

Quanto investiu? Qual o real tempo de retorno?

[@Traktion1]

Would be great to see how this can be done. Used model 3s are getting cheaper than the batteries alone!

[@pumpkinhead456]

​@@MrNgo504I spent £6000, plus £3k on a heat pump - it will take 5 years to pay back.

[@matbowden9156]

@@pumpkinhead456 Do the rest of us a few videos on ya set up? You'll gain a sub from me 😀

[@pauldenney7908]

We have 8kws of Solar and a pure drive energy 10kWh battery. We have a large 4 bed detached house in Scotland, we don't use gas, just electricity . Discounting the feed in Tariff which we get for half our solar the system has cut out energy bill by 50%. We have just switched to a time of day tariff so we can charge the battery off peak when the sun doesn't shine. This will reduce our costs by a further 15%. Personally I think it's money we'll spent. Oh and did I mention we have more than enough solar power left over to run the family EV for half the year?

[@mattx4253]

its a terrible investment. you must be insane. the payback sucks and the savings are trivial for the investment.

[@pauldenney7908]

@@mattx4253 Pay back on the solar is 7 years, out first array is 12 years old and still outputting close to its theoretical maximum. Battery also works as a backup for power cuts. Solar going into the car is displacing petrol which is an even bigger saving, either you work for an oil company or you haven't done your own sums, possibly both.

[@mattx4253]

@@pauldenney7908 in what country?

[@mattx4253]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects well that’s a pack of lies then. Broke even at 7 years 🤣 even basic maths says that’s not possible even on the old FIT tarrif.

[@mattx4253]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects oh I bet he was using oil for heating and now he’s using solar and that’s how. Oil or LPG is very expensive so that’s why it’s paid for itself. A very fringe example though. My energy bill in a 4 bed is £130 a month. How can I make a return on £12000 to £15000 of solar and battery? Charing the car is also bullshit as that’s 7p night rate anyway so what’s the point saving 7p

[@rolandrohde]

As much as I enjoyed this Video, it was very light on details. No concrete info on battery chemistry, number of cycles, guarantee, pricing etc. Also, this seems like a pretty bog standard system to me. Nothing really new like Sodium Ion batteries or any other innovation worth mentioning.

[@thankyouforyourcompliance7386]

Guess it was the idea to present one of the friendly butter-and-bread suppliers of home grid installations that people actually can afford and can buy.

[@turbokadett]

More of an Ad than anything remotely informative.

[@jonb5493]

Cost!

[@PoolOfTrees]

Their integration with a number of providers APIs could be a differentiating factor, but unfortunately, like this video, their website seems to be light on the details about the systems.

[@jgcondron]

5.1kWh LiFePO4. 1c charge and 1c discharge. Datasheet is on their website.

[@matbowden9156]

Can we get an update on whats restricting V2X please? Why pay for a static home battery when there's already a 50 KW unit in the car

[@pauld3327]

Battery degradation

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Vehicles supporting the protocol

[@mikeselectricstuff]

@@pauld3327 Trials have shown this is not an issue and can actually improve life by keeping SoC within optimal range for more of the time

[@matbowden9156]

​@@mikeselectricstuffI agree 👍

[@matbowden9156]

@@mikeselectricstuff Such as the new range of Kia's you mean? Pretty sure Volkswagen are onboard with it as well, so yeah... Be nice to get an update video on what's going on here, and when the public will be finally able to make use of this tech, especially as Octopus is already looking at VPP via the power wall 3

[@jonathandorey8600]

At 6:24 he says that the average house has a consumption of 3650kWh per year - and a bill of £1600 - that's a unit cost of 44p per kWh. The energy price cap for electricity is currently 25p per kWh. I am fully invested in solar and battery and have seen significant savings on my energy bill. But misleading figures like these are disingenuous and can put a lot of people off. Please be more accurate.

[@rigel1632]

Standing charge.

[@jonathandorey8600]

​@@rigel1632 Ok - including standing charge at 60p per day = £219 per year. £1600 - £219 / 3650 = 37.8p per kWh - price cap is 25p per kWh!!!

[@edc1569]

@@rigel1632no it’s because he’s including cost of gas, pretty disingenuous.

[@javelinXH992]

@@rigel1632 Probably does make up the difference. And you can’t avoid that unless you go completely off grid Another thought. Is he including money for exporting?

[@michaelwinkley2302]

Absolutely right. Even after standing charges were looking at 39p/kWh which is well above price cap. I also want to know how 32x 5kWh = 80kWh. If you can stack 32 of them, why is the headline talking about 16?

[@GreenJimll]

"Pure Drive Energy. Duracell. Two names we recognise." Well that statement is half right in my case. 🙂

[@mbuurmei]

Duracell didn't ring a bell ;-)

[@beatreuteler]

@@mbuurmei If you were living in Switzerland, Duracell would have rang the bell for sure. I don't know why but alkaline primary cells used to be all over the place here. Covering maglites, watches, toys etc. etc. to drive them.

[@jvoric]

Same…

[@kiddwong4186]

​@@beatreutelerit's called sarcasm champ.

[@defaultHandle1110]

I know right ? Who the hell are Duracell ?

[@rtdl2]

Did I miss an indication of pricing?

[@davidwebb4904]

If you have to ask, then you cannot afford one.

[@frankfahrenheit9537]

80kWh is the size of a car battery, which is >20kEur?

[@rtdl2]

@@frankfahrenheit9537 I doubt most customers would be purchasing maximum capacity though.

[@rtdl2]

@@davidwebb4904 You are not wrong. I would still prefer to have some idea from the video though. Even going to the Duracell site only give an option to ‘get a quote’.

[@alchemik-79]

About £1500 per each 5kWh unit.

[@davidwebb4904]

Charge the pack with Night Rate electricity, and use it during the day.

[@Animosity6792]

Until night rate electricity stops being a thing. Then all those that don't pay for batteries get to benefit from those that have!

[@jonathandorey8600]

@@Animosity6792 variable rate electricity is going to become more and more of a thing with the move towards more renewables.

[@elinys2843]

Oh, night rate will be around a bit longer with all these stupid nuclear contracts being signed all over the world lately. Give it a few more years and true renewable energy will be no more then tolerated on the grid. The Belgian energy regulator just announced renewable energy will be shut down in favour of ‘regular’ production when needed this summer. ‘Of course nobody can expect us to stop a nuclear power plant, right?’ Western capitalists gave it some thought, found a new way to make a profit, convinced their right wing politician puppets to lobby for it, who pored some ‘divide and conquer’ sause over it, and the racist masses voted for it.

[@jonwragg3822]

Tomorrow the price of electricity is going low between 12:00 and 16:00, for my tariff, night rates are not always the best.

[@pq9727]

That was my thoughts too

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

In Ontario Canada i'am on the ultra low rate program for home EV charging. 11pm to 7am its 2.8cents/kWh 4pm to 9pm its 28.8cents/kWh Rest of the day its 12.2cents/kWh Ultra low rate home charging it costs me about $6.00 per 1000km for my LR Model Y Use my DIY solar system batteries during the 28.8 time and some of the 12.2 time, works great in the summer. In winter not so much, but do load shifting with my 22kWh battery charging at 2.8 to using at 28.8

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

With that differential, I'd build a 10MW battery and mine crypto 24x7. Load up at night.

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Such a wast of 10MW of electricity for something of no value like crypto.

[@johnwhelan2663]

And the transmission cost remains at an additional 15 cents per kWh?

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

@@johnwhelan2663 When are they going to add that cost? Since it does not show up on my bill yet?

[@johnwhelan2663]

@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 look at your bill once more. It's a separate line and is the same cost no matter what time of day it is.

[@JohnR31415]

Is that a local API, on the inverter, rather than a cloud dependant half baked api?

[@markbenson4263]

That was my first thought... What happens if for any reason Duracell decides to pull the plug. Smart battery system becomes dumb battery system?

[@torginus]

It sounds incredibly dystopian that have to think about what sort of API their inverter has rather than it just being a thing that you forget even exists.

[@markbenson4263]

@@torginus sadly... I can think of a few "cloud" connected devices that have suffered this fate. From e-bikes and cars to light bulbs and speakers, it happens with alarming regularity these days. Worst case is the device is bricked. Best case is someone takes over the API service or provides an open source version you can run locally. Generally speaking, you just lose some features that may have been a selling point as in this case with the tariff tracking feature.

[@torginus]

@@markbenson4263 Sure but I'd prefer a device that has no app, no API, no network connectivity, you just turn it on, and it works, like a dishwasher or a furnace.

[@markbenson4263]

@@torginus there is a good chance it probably works in that mode when it can't get data from its API but it isn't going to track "agile" tariffs where they set demand pricing.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

How nice to have energy supplier competition. Here in the US, other than the state of Texas, there are few states where there is real competition among suppliers. Basically the suppliers are sanctioned monopolies.

[@mischadebrouwer9855]

That doesn't sound very American...

[@nickmcconnell1291]

@@mischadebrouwer9855 No it doesn't but it is the way things are. I personally think that govts should financially assist and encourage as many homes as possible to produce their own energy. If they did this there would be no need to beef up the grid capacity to homes because of EVs, etc. All the beeotching that utilities are making about how they will have to put in more line capacity and all the millions that will cost would go out the window.

[@zombiestyled]

Same as UK really. It's a perceived competition.

[@curtisbme]

@@mischadebrouwer9855 Corporate profiteers using government to make money is about as American as it gets. The Texas shit show of them not only using government to make profit but to screw consumers with no repercussions is even more so.

[@oldrrocr]

@@mischadebrouwer9855 the American way is to claw your way to the top and crush the competition in order to stay there. BUT today's hero is tomorrow's zero.

[@MagicianMan]

Puredrive had a bit of a reputation when they were solely Puredrive. I am not suggesting that past performance is indicative of future but worth bearing in mind. With the current "Guidance" which will, in the not too distant future, likely become regulation very few batteries will be able to be installed inside the house. I can think of a a couple that would possibly be acceptable. OFC that's excluding garages. Also worth mentioning is that Duracell is NOT "Duracell Batteries" it's simply a brand name licensing deal. But I wish them well

[@DavidKnowles0]

So is this PureDrive technology with Duracell branding?

[@thankyouforyourcompliance7386]

Always appreciated if there is a CEO who has been down the road a bit instead of some buzzwords spreading hipsters.

[@davidwebster8216]

10kwh per day use seems very low compared to my Australian electricity bill . I thought the average here was around 25kwh. Thanks for the great information 😊

[@ianwingfield4814]

I'm in Australia. I charge my EV at home. I drive approx 25,000km per year. I also have a pool pump running 5hrs per day. My average daily consumption is 26.5kwh.

[@FoxInClogs]

Maybe that's due to the percentage of Australians who live in large, detached houses with A/C? Relatively few homes in Europe have A/C and most still heat their homes in the winter using gas. I've just checked the Dutch stats, which puts the average at 7.56 kWh/day, but many people here live in flats or terraced houses. The average for a detached house is 11.3 kWh/day. The average gas consumption for a detached house is 35.3 kWh/day, way more than your total Australian power consumption. (Apparently Australian domestic gas consumption is relatively low.) The UK housing stock is notoriously poorly insulated, so their gas consumption is even higher. 31.5 kWh/day(!) for the average UK home, according to Ofgem.

[@mlsasd6494]

@@FoxInClogs though you cant really compare gas energy use to electricity energy use as once you use a heat pump you will have a heating factor > 1 in almost all cases.

[@edc1569]

Most homes in the UK have gas and use the gas for heating.

[@mralistair737]

I guess you are using it for heating / cooling. plus you have th ehighest co2 per capita usage of any country in the world

[@DiedLiu]

Does Duracell will leaking and corrosion after one year like their other product ?

[@martyndavies1482]

I thought I'd start off small with my battery system, bought 5kWh pack to start, then the when I bought the 2nd pack it had nearly doubled in price, and when I went for the 3rd the same system is no longer available. So a good argument to start big instead!

[@thomasrivers2124]

Octopus say battery prices are going down 13% a year may be the reduction is not getting to the customer ?

[@worldtrav72]

I would prefer LFP batteries for home storage, if I was making that commitment.

[@ps.2]

These aren't LFP? What are they, then? I would assume they are LFP, but I don't think he said. Just like he didn't give any other details, or answer any of Imogen's questions in anything like a straightforward manner.

[@worldtrav72]

@@ps.2yeah, got impatient waiting for details and just gave my comment!

[@roddyurquhart8808]

My PureDrive batteries are Lithium iron phosphate

[@mikemellor759]

Interesting - I didn’t know Duracell was in the home energy storage market - thanks

[@RWBHere]

A few years ago, we had LFP batteries installed, by a company which was recommended to us. After the installation, the installer informed us that our battery would not ensure continuous power during a power cut; one of the things we'd asked for in advance. He 'contacted the manufacturer to check' and then reported that there was no way for that system to accomplish that, and that even using an isolator wasn't an option. We were very disappointed, as you can imagine. On the other hand, the batteries have pretty much paid for themselves in savings on our electricity bills, without having a Solar PV array installed. Pretty annoying to know that we have no protection against power dropiuts though.

[@mnhsty]

I didn’t know it was possible to have a system that incompetent. Thanks for the info.

[@residentialrenewables]

Contact Residential Renewables for a quote on getting your system working during a power outage.

[@norwegianzound]

Love this lady's voice.

[@Dutchastic]

Ok, so the Norwegians and the Dutch think that she should contact OpenAI.

[@GrahamRead101]

“Uniquely we do the software for agile charging”, hmm givenergy might want to comment on that, unless he meant something very specific. However over all it’s good to see more home grown companies entering the market.

[@genericuser2339]

So funny. I just thought I’d check out my home usage on my power wall for the day and it was exactly 10kwh!

[@dustingodin5323]

Jeeze..I've used 65 KWH. But I'm in Florida and AC is like 55% of that

[@kennethstealey1311]

How to differentiate this from Giv-energy, Myenergi, etc?

[@VinoVeritas_]

It's based on who gave them a backhander this month. There's no integrity on this channel.

[@stephen-boddy]

@@VinoVeritas_ I hope you have actual evidence that would stand up to scrutiny in a court of law. If not, you just committed libel, and you can be taken to court. Perhaps you should indulge in more veritas, and a little less vino.

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@stephen-boddy Hahaha 🤣😂

[@jamiegwozdzicki6079]

The inverter in the background looked suspiciously like a rebranded GivEnergy one now you mention it.

[@hughmarcus1]

@@stephen-boddythese are product placements. They used to tell us that what they were doing. Now they don’t even bother

[@crm114.]

I hope Duracell storage batteries don’t leak like their AA batteries do.

[@waqasahmed939]

I did notice that the Duracell booth at everything electric wasn't visited too much

[@PythosianMan]

Hah ;D Cute, but true :P With AAs, my Duracells always leak without fail, Energizers, never.

[@crm114.]

@@PythosianMan Precisely my experience

[@hitreset0291]

Or leak like my old ice car

[@thankyouforyourcompliance7386]

But you do understand that there is different battery chemistry and that the AA batteries have materialwise basically nothing to do with the mentioned batteries? Or did you just tried to be funny?

[@alexclifford2485]

Its really a case of the sums. If suppliers can focus on minimising costs especially installation, and shortening the payback time - that is what will help people take the leap.

[@0bsTalks]

so, you’ve recorded and offered to us an advertisement, without calling it that

[@alasdairdougall7868]

They are a business and need to make money, but agree that ad-ocumentry should be called that.

[@hughmarcus1]

They used to call it Fully Charged Plus so we knew it was product placement. Now they don’t bother

[@martyndavies1482]

Every. Channel. On. KZbin.

[@rushja]

I did a quote. It would only quote me for solar and battery, not just battery. It predicted I would save £105k. Then it said I would save £1886 pm. So it's predicting that the solar and battery would last for 55 years at 100% capacity? Wow, that's a breakthrough in tech! All I want to know is how much a 5kw battery would be.

[@MarcoKremer]

You mix up per year and per month. £1886 pm is 55 months and not years

[@rushja]

@@MarcoKremer oh yeah, my bad! 4.5 years then. The apps maths seems as confused as mine. Aren't solar panels supposed to last for 25 years?

[@rolandrohde]

​@@rushja Good panels will still have 80-90% of their power rating after 25-30 years. Batteries usually are only going to do 15 years until they degrade too much, though that will depend on the number of deep cycles.

[@62Skins]

kilowatts is the rate of using energy. If you want a 5kw output then that is the inverter output rating. Energy is rated in kw.hrs so if a battery was 5kw.hrs then it would supply 1kw for 5 hours or 5kw for 1 hour.

[@rushja]

@@62Skins that's great, thanks for the information, but I want to know how much the battery costs

[@sinoevc]

Great sharing, thank you

[@KavanOBrien]

What is the lifespan of a battery pack ? Why sell it back to the grid when you could use the energy from the battery instead of buying energy from one of the many suppliers, you could also get rid of the meter that would save money from a standing charge which is a con in itself.

[@crm114.]

Batteries with LFP chemistry should be good for 20 years if not longer.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@crm114. What does LFP mean ?

[@theunknownunknowns256]

Wrong channel try joe rogan for smooth brained commentary.

[@christianvanderstap6257]

Sell high, buy low

[@nigelbradshaw1948]

​@@KavanOBrienLFP battery (lithium ferrophosphate) is a type of lithium-ion battery using lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO 4) as the cathode material, and a graphitic carbon electrode with a metallic backing as the anode

[@ElectricCarAustralia]

Been waiting for my 12 year old lead acid battery bank to die to change over to lithium but they just keep on going 👍 Old school, non smart tech but reliable and more DIY friendly 😊

[@MarkWoodrow00]

I do often wonder about having everything controlled through a third party hosting. I assume you have to pay a monthly fee to Pure Drive for all this remote management? What would happen if they go bust?

[@Berkeloid0]

Same thing that happens when every other "... as a service" company goes bust. The stuff stops working, or if you're really lucky, retains extremely basic functionality without any of the useful features you paid extra for.

[@EugeneLambert]

Will check this product out. Would've been good to get a price per kWh. Also, can it do grid backup in the event of a power cut?

[@brad4013]

I have a Sungrow 12.5kwh. It usually lasts the evening but the airconditioner drains it in a couple of hours when we have to run it. The battery is modular so you can add to it but the extra modules are expensive.

[@siymann]

this product looks like sungrow rebadged!

[@kevinm234]

My philosophy was to combine one days worth of energy in the batteries with a trifuel inverter generator to charge the batteries in two hours. I live in a more rural area and we are last on the list for restoration. Turns out that solar panels are very cheap these days so I put in 6000 watts of solar which on good sunny days will charge my batteries instead of using the grid or generator. So now solar is my primary fuel, the grid is secondary and the generator third. It is nice to know that in case the sun doesn't shine and the grid goes down that I have three fuel sources to power my house: natural gas, propane and gasoline.

[@rubencaixeiro9762]

FiT tariff here, paid 5.6k cash for my 4kw solar system. It will pay for itself after 8 years between energy savings and payments back to my account. All battery storage options i have explored were not financially affordable (in my own situation). I don't own an electric car yet....

[@itekani]

Probably only available for one phase systems?

[@michaelrch]

Say you add a 10kWh battery and you can charge it fully from solar 250 days of the year. Our rate from Octopus is about 30p per kWp. That means there's 10kWh I don't buy from Octopus every day. So £3 per day and £750 per year. I looked up the price for a 10KWh battery and it's over £6k ex VAT. Let's call that £7500 Inc installation. And more if you're not a business. That means a payback of 10 years. I think I'll wait for the prices to come down some more.

[@nickbea3443]

30p/kWh! Try 7.5 and soon to be 7p kWh by choosing a better tariff. Buy cheap power at night and sell PV at double that price during the day.

[@robsalvv5853]

Payback is one way to view it, alternatively, you would be doing amazingly well if you invested £10k in an income/yielding product that gave you the equivalent benefit of £750 / yr after tax.

[@michaelrch]

@@nickbea3443 the less I pay for grid power, the less I need this battery. I don't have a variable tariff. We are a business with a lot of usage and they weren't keen on offering us one.

[@ps.2]

A payback of 10 years _if your solar panels were free,_ and if you actually use 10 kWh per day during periods your panels are not producing energy.

[@michaelrch]

@@ps.2 i have factored in the payback on the panels separately. They pay pay in 5-6 years. The battery is a marginal addition with its own payback now. And we easily use 10kWh overnight. Actually a lot more.

[@flukeylukey7559]

Can they connect the battery to the EV with DC or AC for charging and V2H. This will help the household and the grid.

[@bimblinghill]

It's not correct that this product is the only one which can be wall mounted or stacked. I work for an installer and we do Pylontech batteries , which can be wall mounted or stacked in a server rack.

[@johntuffrey9908]

Why aren't you talking about PAS 63100:2024?? It makes it very difficult (or impossible) to site domestic batteries and will kill off any attempts to roll out solar/battery installs for many homes in the UK. (Batteries will have to be more than one metre from a door or window and also not in a loft.)

[@matthewwhite8129]

Unfortunately in the us the 2023 NEC will cap residential battery storage at 20kwhs.

[@paulkearsley9509]

Was this video sponcered by Durecel

[@danielroden9424]

how many kwhs can the battery be expected to provide over the course of its lifetime? what's the amortized cost per kwh compared to a gas or propane generator backup?

[@dienekes4364]

I've been thinking about adding a battery system to my house. I currently pay 6¢/kw from 9pm to 5pm, then 24¢ between 5pm and 9pm. If I had a decent battery, I could set up a switch that would automatically move me from grid to battery for those 4 hours every day and then charge the battery back up when the power is cheap. That would also give me a battery backup if the grid goes down. I can DIY a 15kwh battery pretty easily from a kit for about $2200. It'd take a long time to recoup the cost, but I'd never have to worry about the grid going down (which happens occasionally where I live). Then I can add solar to it as I get the money.

[@cg986]

This is what I need

[@masterofthepinkside]

Hi fully charged. I have a question, mostly curiosity: Is there currently a home product that can charge your car DC, off the solar/battery without having to lose penergy converting to ac and back in between? If not is that something anyone's thinking of and would it be worthwhile?

[@ps.2]

Seems unlikely, as EV batteries are generally wired to natively use anything from 400 to 1000 VDC, and home stationary batteries ... aren't. So you'll still need to step the voltage up quite a lot. I expect the conversion losses would be at least comparable to those from the inverter and the AC battery charger.

[@hughmarcus1]

There’s an American unit that does that I’m not sure if they’re planning to sell it in the UK

[@zapfanzapfan]

I'm hoping for such a system that can transfer power from home battery to EV or back directly on CCS from the home battery. Maybe an EV-maker has to make it's own home battery for that integration to work properly?

[@ps.2]

@@zapfanzapfan I think the problem is one of scale. EV batteries are often 50 kWh or higher. Home batteries are more like 5 to 15 kWh. So, if you want to charge a 60 kWh EV from a 10 kWh home battery, the most you can add to the car is 17% charge. That's not compelling enough, IMO, to design a system for that purpose, as you're suggesting. It just seems like not that useful of a use case. (A much more likely use case is _to use your EV as your stationary storage_ while you're at home. You may not need a separate home battery at all, and if you do, it need not be a very large one, if it only has to run your refrigerator while you're out.) There's also the matter of voltages. EV battery packs are usually engineered for 400V or higher (800V for newer or higher-end cars). Assume the home battery is LiFePO₄ and each cell carries 2 Ah, that's about 1650 cells. To run this at 400V would require running about 125-130 cells in series (as the chemistry is nominally 3.2V), so you'd have about 12 banks of these. Doable, but I think it's more common to run 15 cells in series, for 48VDC.

[@zapfanzapfan]

@@ps.2 I was thinking more like instead of daisy chaining two or more home batteries the EV-battery is the last in the chain soaking up the excess solar-PV when the car is parked at home, or used to power the house in a blackout. If a long blackout then the EV can go charge and then come back to charge up the home system. But if/when most cars can deliver AC output directly to the house that might be more convenient.

[@jonb5493]

The Tesla Powerwall 3 spec is exactly what we need. Someone must make an exact equivalent for half that price. Someone else must provide a service to reliably install it. I'm waiting.

[@SimonHollandfilms]

i have a 52kw battery sitting in my driveway....lets use our EVs for home battery storage.

[@jonb5493]

Yes, that helps. It's not the complete solution.

[@armandvermeulen2947]

Definitely not the only battery with these options 😂😂

[@paulaschofield]

Would love a solar battery to go with our system, but they are still too expensive once the installation costs are taken into account. No subsidies here in NZ. Based on our annual power bill (we own 2 EVs) it would take 30 years to offset the upfront cost.

[@frejaresund3770]

I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.

[@nr5494]

How many bunnies will they run, and for how long?

[@gordienj]

Can a battery module run the lawn mower, or add solar electricity to the electric car?

[@martyndavies1482]

Yes, via a hybrid inverter.

[@gordienj]

@@martyndavies1482 so then the appliance (the car in this case) would have the inverter, and room to place or stack the batteries?

[@wlhgmk]

Questions. Can I just get the battery. I already have solar panels and a fast charger. Can your software only send the excess energy that I generate to the battery and only when it is full, or the output exceeds the C value, send the excess to the grid. What is the cost in NZ dollars per 10kWh of battery capacity. If I can acquire a used leaf with 20kWh of capacity left, can you sort out the soft ware to use this battery as my home battery - preferably leaving the battery in the Leaf.

[@Berkeloid0]

Generally with these designs you can't send power to a battery, you have to tell the battery to charge at a given rate. This is why a lot of controllers are only compatible with certain battery models - because the controller only knows how to send the start/stop charging commands to a limited number of battery models. The way it works is that the solar energy all goes into the grid, but the battery takes what it needs from those wires before they hit the meter box, reducing the amount going to the grid. So in order to only use your excess power to charge the battery, you need the controller to monitor how much power is going to the grid, and then tell the battery to charge faster or slower in order to keep your grid export as close as possible to zero. If you want to buy an old Leaf to do it, you don't need the controller here, you can look on KZbin for the many videos about running your house off a used Leaf battery. Most of them use a DIY controller that has its own current meter, adjusting the charge rate to use up all your excess solar, or via timer to charge the battery when the electricity rates are low. But generally speaking these off-the-shelf systems only work when you buy all the parts from them at the same time. As soon as you want to DIY any part of it, you're far better off DIYing the whole thing. When you DIY it you also have the advantage that your system will keep going even if a company goes bankrupt, which is often not the case with modern subscription-based services.

[@HenkBronkhorst-c8c]

looks good i am more interested about cost and voltage you are talking about also type of inverter single, three phase so i hope to find more answers on the inter net, thanks

[@Ian-gf8id]

When I think of Duracell batteries, two things spring to mind => average performance, and a high price premium. Neither of those things would tempt me towards this product/service. I have analysed my electricity smart meter data (our daily domestic consumption is 10-15kwh) and spent considerable time doing the calculations regarding battery storage. Breakeven doesn't occur until 7-9 years (without solar), by which time the batteries are likely to have lost 30% of their usable capacity. For me, the numbers don't stack up yet.

[@ravenfeeder1892]

What are the economics like for batteries if you don't have your own solar and still have to get the juice off the grid. If you put yourself on the right tariff to recharge overnight is it worth it?

[@martyndavies1482]

I'd say if you buy a hybrid inverter and batteries at the best price and install yourself then its better than just solar on its own. I wouldn't install just solar and expect to make worthwhile savings.

[@dbas2]

To use or export solar Is it better to use the solar energy in the home, or charge up the battery and immersion heater over night on the cheap rate and simply export during the day. The later gives the biggest return on investment as you benefit from the difference between the night rate and the export rate. However, which is best for the planet? The former assumes that the greater need is for exporting when the national picture is for a higher load, using the night supply when there is surplus. I can’t work out which is best. Any advice Imogen?

[@edc1569]

You don’t state where you live, so it’s impossible to answer, normally cheap electricity is very green and expensive is dirty, so the financial motive typically aligns with the environmental.

[@dbas2]

@@edc1569 Thanks. UK based with 4kw panel array and 10kw Libbi. We don’t have a BEV so night rate is currently 13.5p against export of 15p per unit. If we did have a BEV then the night rate would be around 7-9p per unit. Hence the financial benefit. However, I’m more concerned to establish what is best for the climate and Stop burning stuff.

[@martyndavies1482]

@@dbas2 What would you spend the £54.75 profit on?

[@computerbob06]

Ah ha! That powercut thing again! I've had 1 powercut in 25 years!

[@philbull1112]

We had a power supply cable fail. Took three days to fix. House ran off-grid from our PV + Tesla Powerwall for the entire period (fortunately we had three sunny days!). Explaining to our DNO that we had no power but the house was running OK blew a few brain fuses at their end:) The alternative would have been a smelly generator in the drive:(

[@Berkeloid0]

Then good news! With climate change bringing along more severe weather, you'll be having many more power cuts in the future!

[@gargar3]

Maybe compare this to Tesla powerwall.

[@davidevans4609]

Apparently customer service and technical support has taken a sharp downturn since Duracell came on board.

[@NickAskew]

I am deeply skeptical, not especially of this product or other home energy storage systems, but of the market. When I bought my solar system a decade ago, I was told that my bills would be slashed because effectively I could use the grid as a kind of battery. Now I'm told that my bills will rise either because I deliver to the grid or because my usage is low. So I need to invest roughly the same again for a battery system that has roughly the same life expectancy as my panels. I also fully expect that the utility companies will penalize me still further. Eventually being off grid will be the only way to get out of their reach. I would like to see grid based storage that can even out the supply and demand. For example the pumped storage system in North Wales. This would allow society to benefit from the cleaner energy we solar owners provide, without punishing us for daring to supply.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

It will be interesting, Having the ability to operate without the grid if need be is probably the real core benefit. Who knows how reliable the grid will be in the future? Lots of talk of lack of transmission pylon lines for distribution as demand grows.

[@MagicianMan]

That's not really correct. You could add an GivEnergy AIO AC Coupled for maybe £6500ish. You could, depending on heating hot water, add a solar immersion diverter for £500ish Unless you receive FIT payments that are based on actual generation then this wouldn't have any impact of your export payments. If you do receive FIT with an actual export component then you would need to look at the pence/kwh you receive. Failing that get yourself onto a decent energy tariff with a decent Export Tariff (NOT just standard SEG) you could export for 15p/kwh with Octopus, 16p i think with EON/EDF (not sure which and there are conditions to satisfy). . However I do agree that there is something 'we' could do differently. Instead of building Wind Farms/Solar Farms (like Ripple or Octopus something-or-other). We could build "community" funded battery storage and everyone can buy shares and receive discounts on their bills.

[@martyndavies1482]

Agree, late stage capitalism won't allow a penny of profit to get out of its reach. Have you ever asked an energy supplier to explain why the standing charge is so high? You sure do get some professional-grade BS as a reply.

[@terryinozland]

The production trail of the "petrol" or "gas" supply really needs to be properly expressed and in short format so we can type it in these KZbin comments en masse and regularly. Add to this the production trail of any combustion engine plus gearboxes/ autos/ differentials etc Including materials and where the metals come from / weights and fluids and , production machinery costs and labor etc etc etc you get the idea. A Quick synapse of this in total would look awesome and if it could show comparison to electric motor/ battery/ converter production etc i think the unconverted gasheads would see the advantage. If they could read.

[@Nightowl_IT]

Still waiting for more LTO storage options and portable packs with LTO.

[@frankenscience3553]

this that mole from that other show?

[@rhysbevan429]

While not exactly "late" to the market, there are already half a dozen established products out there that companies should start integrating with. I won't buy Duracell AC-coupled if it won't work with my existing solar+battery set up, for example.

[@ahaveland]

Standards are important - as the cells are all LFP chemistries and most likely 48V 16S. Batteries should be interchangeable, interoperable and infinitely expandable. It's only the BMS controllers, monitoring and integration electronics that are proprietary and make integration more difficult than necessary. However, a winner will emerge from the explosion of wannabees in due course, but only if they embrace open standards.

[@trevorberridge6079]

Not sure what he meant when he said Lithium doesn't work at all at zero degrees. Lithium battery powered cars have been bombing around in sub-zero temperatures for years and that includes the Nissan Leaf which has no thermal management.

[@zapfanzapfan]

I think you shouldn't charge them if the battery is at sub-zero but discharge works fine, just a bit less efficient.

[@krslavin]

Cosmetics aside, why not buy battery rack(s) and something like EG4 48V nominal 100Ah LFP 7000-cycle batteries (up to 6 batteries per rack)? These run around $200 per KWh, plus costs of cabling. Then (for U.S for 120V/240V) use an EG4 6000XP (no grid feed), or for hybrid (grid back-feed) outdoor-capable EG4 12K (12KW panels, 8KW inverter), or EG4 18K (18KW panels, 12K inverter). Everything else seems a lot more expensive these days. DIY systems are attainable for many - dramatically cutting costs. Just use a qualified electrician for the grid connection. You can even do your own permit applications for grid back-feed.

[@vincentdeleonjr1039]

outstanding information

[@HorizonimagingCoUkPhotography]

A useful video for those new to batteries 😊 It would have been interesting / useful to actually see examples of their installations to show how the batteries can be stacked / hung on the wall. Also, the guy said 32 modules can be connected together which = 160kWh rather than 80kWh in the video’s title? I was puzzled by his comment that lithium “doesn’t work at all at 0°C” … what about all those Lithium batteries in cars and home energy packs operating just fine in very cold climates around the world? Ok the efficiency will be lower as the resistance is higher, but they don’t just stop working! Otherwise another great video Imogen and the FCS! 😊🙏🏻👍🏻

[@oliver90owner]

NMC Lithium batteries should not be charged below about zero Celsius. They can be discharged at a much lower temperature with some efficiency losses. That said, no Lithium storage batteries, these days, should be the NMC chemistry - LiPO4 chemistry should be employed😮 I’m not sure of the minimum charging temperature for LiPO4 cells. I understand Sodium ion cells, which should soon be a cheaper/better purchasing option, do not have the same problem.

[@t1n4444]

​@@oliver90owner The frig around the problem is to preheat (condition?) the cells/pack. Once it was clear that lithium cells are not much use in cold climates then heated mats (for aquarium use) were cobbled up and then interior heating was "invented". There's a technical paper by Ford America on this topic. It deals with taxi cab outfits in Chicago trying to charge lithium cells at high rates in below freezing temperatures. Plenty online if arsed on the topic of lithium plating to an electrode which was irreversible. Can't recall if the anode or the cathode as they change in a battery depending, or so is claimed. Anyway this home storage idea may become "complicated" what with BS 63100 and what that evolves into. As mentioned some weeks ago the YT sparky (UK) platforms are interested in the outcome of new regs to reduce fire issues. It won't appear that some properties, terraced, will have to have the battery bank mounted away from properties. This might end up having said batteries mounted in the garden in a non flammable enclosure. There again it might mean more work for sparkies as in retro engineering existing battery equipped properties. There again it might result in area battery farms in rural areas. We'll know soon enough. That said with a new political "scene" it could be a while before legislation is introduced.

[@oliver90owner]

@@t1n4444 Why “frig” around a problem when a simple solution already exists? Some retrospective action may be required, but EV batteries (with comprehensive BMS control of all parameters) are not a threat. Oft quoted/paraded battery fires are likely mishaps from earlier in the short period of EV development - or plain lies. One particular highway fire, which was reported by anti-EV morons as an EV going up in flames, was actually an ICE vehicle loaded with gas cylinders.

[@t1n4444]

@@oliver90owner Well, now, a "frig" exists for early generation lithium batteries prior to an inbuilt heating pad and suitable software updated to deal with the ambient temperature. The anecdotal stuff? Your point being? Battery EVs are "bad' enough in themselves without other folk making up nonsense. You should factor in also that if one EV battery can self ignite then they all can. If one ICE car can self ignite then all ICEs can self ignite. The putative battery EV buying public have decided that's a disincentive to buy. Is that logical? To those people clearly this is logical. Plus the cost, the residuals, the wildly optimistic ranges and the wait for a charger then the wait for recharging is enough to put off car buyers. In UK most people become impatient behind a wheel, as we all know, so these people are very likely too impatient to wait for recharging. In short battery EVs are too inconvenient for most hence the fall in sales for battery EVs in UK. Argue if you must.

[@t1n4444]

@@oliver90owner Posts getting deleted. This is excellent as it demonstrates I'm rewriting some silly preconceived ideas. Heated batteries weren't available in early versions of lithium battery technology and evolved as necessary. Hence the frig using heated pads. ........... Pointless coming out with that sort of anecdotal burning cars pretending to be battery EVs nonsense. The stock response is either "so what" or "and your point is".

[@drewcipher896]

It's so weird to see a recognizable brand like Duracell stay relevant.

[@Berkeloid0]

Good point, it'd be more in character for an established brand to pay off some law makers to introduce a ban on lithium batteries and require all EVs be powered by AAs.

[@nigsok]

Interested but looking at your app rating trustpilot 2/5 it’s off putting

[@milan_dobias]

You either make one of your conferences to central Europe (Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Budapest), or I move myself to UK, start working in Eco industry to get my 0.001% chance that Imogen comes to interview me one day!

[@ericvet8b]

Not sure those figures for consumption average house are right though.

[@Zebsy]

04:50 - "I recommend a mix" - what exactly is he talking about here? PS The question was asking if it was worth using a battery without solar. Not sure what he's mixing.

[@EGbattEnergy]

Normally for household use. 30kwh to 50kwh will be good. Batteries are not that expensive anymore now.

[@spiritualdeath101]

Tesla Powerwall 3 has 10yr warranty - which is excellent.

[@peterxyz3541]

Groups like Duracell, Energizer and Generac MISSED the train with their branding. They were established in consumer market DECADES BEFORE a “Tesla”

[@samheyman09]

Maybe modern new build houses consume 10kWh/day. I live in Norway and even with heat pumps a more realistic figure for a 150m2 house is more like 50kWh!

[@hal3137]

Great video , but can we please drop the term " game changer " most cliché and over used term of the 2000's

[@andyparker7615]

no game changer is a game changer!

[@capitanocorelli1781]

This is pretty much a Marketing spot put out by Pure Energy and subsidized by Duracell. But their message is a strong one: it is an idea whose time has come. Just one of these 5 KWh battery packs used in conjuction with, for example, my IONIQ 5's 77.4 KWh battery and a V2G (Vehicle to Grid) connection would power a house for three days. (I think 10 KWh / day is rather optimistic) . Yes that's how much raw power most EV's carry. Even without any kind of power generation this would benefit most households. Particularly, if you have peak/off-peak cost variation like mine 17¢/KWh | 8¢/ KWh. Also, install items like the more modern heat pumps to replace the furnace and either an electric water tank (extremely quiet - no blower motor) or electric tankless water heater (uses a lot of power all at once but saves electricity compared to water tanks). By doing so you would avail of even more energy savings. When all is said and done, energy is a shared responsibilty. As we begin transitioning to a de-centralized grid this set up would benefit you the most. First, you would do away with fossil fuel burning. Second, you would never suffer brown outs, spikes or power blackouts. Your power would be conditioned - An uninterruptible power supply for your home. Just being connected to the grid would further serve to reduce noise on the grid. Third, you would have the option to be a producer and further reduce your monthly bill, if your supplier allows it. But at the very least you have somewhere to connect your panels or turbines. Most forward thinking power companies are already looking at VPP - Virtual Power Plants. These are devices able to take power from a number of different resources and distribute them. Think of them as power nodes that intercommunicate and manage power demand response. The can redirect power and so reduce outages. This type of setup would mean communities would literally house some if not most of the energy on the grid.

[@suthie1953]

I am shocked that someone who is out there heavily promoting Green Energy does not have a solar panel array and electric storage system installed in their home already. Clearly I don't know the personal circumstances of Imogen or why she wouldn't have a system installed, but wow.

[@carlbeaver7112]

The thing to now consider is utility companies are beginning to whine about lost profits and are charging customers that 'push' their excess solar/wind/whatever production into the grid as a way of paying for their system expenditures. Pay attention and consider that only building a system large enough to serve your needs may be the wiser choice.

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

The UK needs more solar and batteries. We should build what is economic for ourselves and that our local grid can cope with.

[@B0jangle5]

Which companies?

[@gammarisktrader1681]

what i don't understand is how come they just don't use iron air batteries for home storage. seems like the ideal situation for at least grid backup. even though they maybe only 50% efficient. buying grid power is cheap and iron air batteries cost only $2 to $5 per kwh, so a home system for say 1 megawatt hour should only cost a few thousand and should be able to power a home for a month or more without power in the event of a prolonged power outage.

[@lukehebb]

At 8:00 he says lithium doesn't operate at 0 and they've fixed that... but doesn't say how and is never asked how? I assume he means they stuck a heater in the battery but not mentioning that (and that it will use energy to warm the battery) is disingenuous especially since unlike on an EV which uses the same tech it doesn't come with a highly efficient heat pump so will be resistive heating which uses more energy If they've actually solved this in a chemical way inside the battery then this needs to be brought forward as a massive breakthrough in battery technology Really disappointing that none of this was questioned or challenged, it feels like this needs to be classified as being an advert

[@whophd]

6:15 "an average home consumes about 10 kWh of energy a day" - fact check, is this too small? 10 kWh, is this a British home's average? I have a small 1920s-era suburban house in Sydney Australia and it consumes 25 kWh/day in the summer and 35 in the winter - right now the reverse-cycle heat is pumping it out, and granted our houses are not built for thermal insulation like Britain's, but the numbers just seem unreasonable. Perhaps "10 kWh of energy a day" is presuming some heating from a gas boiler? I'm pure electrically powered since installing solar and battery (12 kW system, which struggles to produce 10-20 kWh a day on a cloudy or rainy winter's day). None of this helps answer the question "how much battery should I get", because the answer is purely "how much can you afford?" The reason I say that is because the wholesale power tariffs mean you can put 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 batteries on a house my size and still make savings all the way up. Just keep selling at dinner time and buying at lunch time or overnight (the "duck curve"). I currently have 2 x Tesla PW2 (and 12 kW of panels, both just like Robert Llewellyn) and the bills are negative for 11 months of the year, or would be averaging $0 with just one PW2 at 13.5 kWh usable capacity (and 20% reserve).

[@t1n4444]

Hmm ... but is this notion of home battery storage increasing throughout UK, or just an idea for a program? Plus a gag from Imogen ref stacked cells ... "so you could, potentially". Not bad Imogen ... who knew!

[@danielmadar9938]

Thanks

[@xenasloan6859]

good game!! see how often we can show and say duracell....

[@mikesmith71]

Batteries to save energy from solar panels is a fantastic idea. But, the problem starts with people charging their batteries with cheap overnight energy to then use during the day. Energy suppliers will start losing money quickly and then scrap cheap rate tariffs which some people rely on for EV charging. As always, the rich can afford to jump on the bandwagon and save lots of money until the market crashes, while the average person will end up paying for it when the cheap tariffs disappear.

[@glenny2960]

This is incorrect. The energy is provided at a cheap rate overnight as it is excess available whilst demand is low, and because demand is lower it is sold by the national grid at a cheaper rate than it is supplied at. The energy then being sent back to the grid during daytime from the likes of solar owners (residential properties) is paid by the energy suppliers at a cost far lower than would be from other suppliers (non sustainable resources) therefore energy suppliers (in my case Octopus) still save considerable money and make profit. If I buy from the grid in the daytime then it’s about 27p/kWh, but Octopus buy my solar supply at 15p/kWh. I’m sure if night time demand gets too great compared to excess available then prices will climb slightly. As it is, they are just reducing again in July to 7p/kWh.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

No. it helps the system or they would not do it. If they do not buy from you and your battery, they have to pay to fire up a big, usually gas, entire power station. This is very expensive, having a whole plant built that is only used parts of a day. I suspect they are paying a fraction of what their alternatives are when they need peak power capacity, so are making loads out of it. Same with selling cheap, the always on power stations would have to be turned off or the power 'thrown away' otherwise.

[@DavidKnowles0]

Not neccessary because they will lose money on having turn off wind turbines/hydro/geo thermal over night.

[@martyndavies1482]

You might be right on the direction of the market, but when did the rich ever suffer after a crash.

[@vladx2]

Is going off-grid really a great goal to have? I’d rather help the grid be greener and better, and home batteries can be an amazing help to the grid

[@yournickshere]

i think im right in saying that not all home batteries protect you during a power cut. check the details before you take that as a given advantage.

[@martyndavies1482]

You are right, in fact no out of the box hybrid inverter would do that as they must be anti-islanding during a power cut to avoid back feeding to the grid. Unless you genuinely have an issue with power cuts (personally I can't remember the last one I had) or you own a tin-foil hat, then its not worth paying for an automatic change over set-up which is the only way to do it.

[@brianbailey4565]

All sounds very good but some examples with costs of installation and the savings would of been useful. I installed solar at a cost of 7.7k 2011 get paid now 61ppkWh. This paid for its self in approx 5 years. What I get now more than covers any I import. Great for me because everyone else is subsidising it. Usual thing those that can afford it make the money those that can't pay for it. The system is wrong even though I am benefiting from it.

[@pauladams1829]

A big question is the relationship between landlords, tenants, and sustainable technologies.

[@constructioneerful]

Indeed. I just added vast solar array and battery to a rental house - made next to no difference to the proposed rental amount.

[@Zebsy]

He talks about saving 60% of your bill with solar + battery, but then later talks about saving 75% with just variable rate tariffs. This is either confusing or wrong IMHO.

[@bradleyarcher9840]

I found some of the comments in this wrong and a very poor choice. In the UK we will always have time of use tariffs, secondly it makes perfect sense to have batteries in your property without solar, also the impact of having your batteries outside are negligible. I don’t like bold sweeping statements, it’s more of a fossil fuel thing. There will be people watching this thinking of just installing batteries, people who like in flats or who rent who cannot have solar and you may have just talked them out of it.

[@jvoric]

Would love solar and battery but we rent and our landlord won’t want to fork out the cost of a system.. we have an ev, and ohme home pro , which the landlord let us have installed at our expense, fair enough . We’re on octopus I.G tariff which is soon to decrease their off peak unit charge .. even if I could get just battery storage installed to charge at night off peak for use during the day would save me money!

[@lancashirebob3]

He can't keep his face straight, she is simply too cute.