Hussain Ahmed Madani - Abdal Hakim Murad: Paradigms of Leadership

This talk was delivered on October 5, 2019.
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[@shaikmohammedabdullah5219]

Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madani was the greatest freedom fighter of India

[@bcmy7]

absolutely!

[@aroundbullbd131]

Yes

[@yourstruly5706]

🤣🤣🤣 sure

[@BeautifulBluePlanet]

It was a delight to listen to this particular lecture of our beloved Shaykh, about Shaykh Hussein Ahmed Madani, who was in more ways than one, our family Spiritual Guide - both from one's father & mother's side. It was due to his selfless & foresighful leadership & that of another giant of the era - Mawlana Abul Kalam Azaad, that Muslims of the Sub-Continent such as us, were strongly in favour for a United India for all! Today, after over half a century, we see the reality of what they could envisage as we witness the plight of Muslims & indeed other minorities in an increasingly Fascist India. May God protect this blessed land, as well as the entire world from the torment of tyranny, Ameen! 🙏 A million thanks to all at CMC for arranging a truly beautiful series on the brilliance of the soulful giants of our rich tradition. 😊

[@Asifjuk]

This was very interesting and informative. I hope the Shaykh does a similar talk on Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and on Shaykh Pir Mihr Ali Shah and Allama Iqbal.

[@ahmadusman9820]

Did he?

[@Nihatuddin]

I love all the knowledge Shakh Hakim imparts, I’ve learned so much from this lecture series. Just one little minor bumb in the road, as a Sylheti I was a bit hurt to hear the land of Hazrat Shah Jalal (rha) called a far flung backwater. Indeed it is a place filled with the bodies of so many awliyas from far off lands. The population of Sylhet until recent times have been known for their observant practice of Islam.

[@minskdhaka]

Fellow Bengali here. Sylhet is indeed a backwater when we look at it from the perspective of the centres of cultural production in South Asia at that time. I mean, even Dhaka was a bit of a peripheral town back then, as attested to by my grandfather, who had lived for a while in Kolkata before moving to Dhaka.

[@masssly]

Thank you for making these sessions freely available to the world. May Allah bless S. Murad and CMC

[@shahkaleem6601]

Jinnah was clueless about Islam but was happy to give Islamic slogans to Muslim public in order to make Pakistan.

[@aishabaajamaal5046]

I’m greatly benefiting from these lectures. I truly appreciate cmc’s knowledge sharing. Thank you 🙏 sheikh. May Allah grant you Jannah 🤲

[@MuhammadAli-hr1bj]

Thank you so much CMC.

[@naifsultan8879]

Allah Almighty bless you Sheikh ....such a wonderful lecture about one of the greatest of the subcontinent ....please do one about Maulana Abul Kalam Azad some day .....God Almighty Give more strength to you and CMC

[@mirzarizwan1408]

yes.. Moulana Abul Kalam Azad

[@abuumarali2831]

This is a great lecture series by Shaikh Murad. A wonderful exemplar of traditionalist leadership in our age will start getting the attention he deserves if Shaikh Murad delivers a lecture on the leading light of the Farangi Mahal School in late colonial India -- Maulana Abdul Bari Ansari Qadri (d.1926; along with a discussion of the role of his foremost disciples, the Ali Brothers, Muhammad Ali Jauhar and Shaukat Ali).

[@mohammedhussien1716]

Allah bless you and all

[@muslimemporium]

As'Salamu alaikum warahmathullahi wabarakathahu. Session request on Shaheed Tipu Sultan or Shaheed Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi InshaAllah.

[@onlygknows7793]

So many words he eats up, but he is still amazing.

[@jsjdjjsjdj4050]

ربنا يحفظك ويثبتك وبارك فيك وجزاك الله خيرا اخي الفاضل

[@Karim_Napaai]

Someone please get the shaykh some warm water with crushed ginger and turmeric, in shaa Allah his cough gets better. Allah bless you for your many efforts shaykh.

[@onlygknows7793]

Lol he doesn't usually cover his mouth while coughing.

[@BaatParBaat]

Kindly improve the voice quality. It is like whispering. Enhanced volume will increase its benefits.

[@Muslimah1987]

Headphones make all the difference.

[@maaz87]

@@Muslimah1987 Everybody doesn't have

[@BaatParBaat]

@@Muslimah1987 ٰI tried but they don't. There is problem in the sound quality.

[@karaeyed5057]

Closed captions sort of help

[@minskdhaka]

It sounds fine on my Bluetooth speaker.

[@mubasshirahmed673]

Great discussion but surprised that maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar's name did not come up.

[@UmmI943]

This was amazing, jazakallah khair. What is the name of the book Shaykh was quoting from?

[@alimohammad360]

Hussain Ahmed Madani - the jihad for Islam and India's freedom by Barbara d metcalf

[@ni3467]

Please do one on Anwar Shah Kasmiri

[@masssly]

Can you make a session about a sub Saharan African personality, maybe Afa Ajura from Ghana or Usman Dan Fadio of Nigeria. Please 🙏

[@osmanskhan]

Which book by Muhammad Asad on Mark Sykes is being referred to? In the 44th minute of the talk? Thank you!

[@GM-oi4vg]

Tension between the Ulema & cultural Muslims is still going on in the Sub-continent.

[@tazboy1934]

How

[@GM-oi4vg]

@@tazboy1934 Tension regarding the role & nature of sharia in the State.

[@mahimudasir6081]

I got ur introduction from Joram van klaveran

[@JaefarSABNW]

The looking at the status and wealth motivations with marriage as working for the needs of those who choose is certainly an important inflection to uphold. Hussain Ahmad Madani of October 6th, 1879-December 5th, 1957 , as the 5th Principle of the Darul Uloom Deoband Sunni Seminary, and his multicultural view of inherent nationality wasn't so much persecuted and falsely prosecuted out of real suspicion, but his tolerance and view that a Muslim could live an Islamic life in the absence of a real Islamic state was a threat to Western propaganda and plans.

[@abuumarali2831]

Leaving aside the discussion of Maulana Madani's later political perspective, I found Shaikh Abdal Hakim Murad's treatment of other contributions made by this celebrated aalim and shaikh to be highly instructive. Along with reading some excerpts from Barbara D. Metcalf's biography of Maulana Madani, it seems Shaikh Murad has also adopted the general sentiment that runs through the works of Prof. Metcalf on these topics. When she writes about Maulana Madani and Muslim Nationalism in colonial India, so-called 'modernists' such as Iqbal and Jinnah are forcefully pitted against the traditionalist ulama who had promoted Composite Nationalism -- without paying due attention to how the political landscape of colonial India had taken shape in the interwar period (1918-1939). While much is made of the modernist-traditionalist divide and it is easy to identify ulama as genuine bearers of religious authority, such historians/analysts largely ignore the role and arguments of leading ulama who had become disillusioned with the Hindu leadership of the Congress and found no utility in Composite Nationalism for ensuring the due emancipation and empowerment of Indian Muslims. Farangi Mahal was an older seat of Islamic learning than the prestigious Deoband seminary, what were the reasons for the leading aalim and shaikh of Farangi Mahal, Maulana Abdul Bari Ansari Qadri (the first and foremost traditionalist authority who became politically active in 20th century Colonial India), to distance himself from the Congress in the mid-1920s? Why, after his demise in 1926, his successor at that seat of learning Maulana Inayatullah Farangi Mahli, and his son Maulana Jamal Mian Farangi Mahli had joined the Muslim League in the mid-1930s? More importantly, the highest office bearer of Darul Uloom Deoband, its long serving Patron, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi had resigned from that post in the mid-1930s owing to the rise of pro-Congress sentiments in that seminary; and 1938 onward (till his demise in 1943), based on his understanding of relevant Sharia principles and prevailing political dynamics, Maulana Thanvi had consistently supported the agenda of Muslim Separatism championed by the Muslim League. Maulana Thanvi was a direct deputy of that illustrious Sufi master Shaikh Haji Imdadullah Makki (whereas Maulana Madani was the deputy of Shaikh Makki's deputy, Maulana Gangohi), and he was by far the most prolific and widely published Deobandi aalim -- Maulana Thanvi's religious insight and authority delivered a much needed corrective to the uni-focal perspective of Maulana Madani (and associates) who had made the mistake of only seeing the foreign colonial power as their adversary and lost sight of the local hegemonic actors that would've made the sub-continent's Muslims a permanent powerless minority (the Congress had never agreed at any stage to have a weak center with a few subjects so that Muslim majority provinces could have maximum autonomy -- a demand made in the formulas of Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind, and previously also by the Muslim League). Maulana Thanvi had rightly pointed out the wrong analogy made by proponents of Composite Nationalism with the Prophet's Charter of Medina. Maulana Thanvi had pointed out that the composite order founded by the Prophet (SAW) at Medina had granted him the positions of chief executive and head of that city state; to the contrary, the free India for which the Congress was aiming was to have little autonomy for provinces and a strong center where universal adult franchise would always install Hindu dominated legislatures and cabinets. Such a united India, wasn't acceptable for Maulana Thanvi on Islamic grounds, so the maximum number of our subcontinent's Muslims had to be given an opportunity of escaping that fate of subservience to non-Muslims. Hopefully, the highly learned and respectable Shaikh Murad will also record a lecture on Maulana Thanvi to set the record of politico-religious leadership in that era straight.

[@r2zee]

sound quality is so frustrating ! difficult to hear even in full volume.

[@bcmy7]

I know! for all this series. I hope they do something

[@osmanskhan]

Can someone please tell me which book on Mark Sykes Mohammad Assad wrote? Referred to in the 44th minute of the talk. Thank you!

[@CambridgeMuslimCollege]

www.bloomsbury.com/uk/redrawing-the-middle-east-9781786724069/

[@osmanskhan]

@@CambridgeMuslimCollege thank you!

[@faisalmajeed.8384]

Asalaam u lykum. Please a little loud.

[@Muslimah1987]

No chance, grab headphones - makes all the difference.

[@peregienfalcon]

What are you talking about when you claimed about Maududi's position that he can just tell using inner light if a Haidth is correct or not?

[@tablighibayans]

32:00 bookmark

[@tayyabkhan4440]

ملا کو جو ہے ہند میں سجدے کی اعجاز ندان یہ سماجھا ہے اسلام ہے آزاد

[@tayyabshahzad688]

16:04

[@najlaalim7358]

He cried on the way

[@hassantahir209]

In the subcontinent when recent tasawwuf is mentioned names such as Imam Ahmad Rida Khan, Pir Mehr 'Ali Shah and Iqbal come to mind. It's almost never Hussain Ahmad Madani, the guy who supported composite nationalism and had to be taught Islamic values by the Cambridge and Munich-educated Muhammad Iqbal.

[@BaatParBaat]

I've always cherished Mr Murad's lectures and greatly benefited from his erudition and sweep of knowledge. Maulana Madni (ra) is no doubt a saintly religious scholar and worthy of great admiration and genuine respect. But the political aspect of the video was poorly done and reflects deep prejudices and unfounded claims. It will be against taqwa to ascribe any motives to the worthy Murad, but his conclusions are not based on objective analysis of the circumstances leading to the partition and lack honest judgment. It is very unfortunate that he has not come up clean while judging the instrumental role of religion in the colonial politics and has expressed only his prejudices in the garb of scholarship. Very sad.

[@Muslimah1987]

Can you elaborate? Fascinated to hear more on the reasons for your disagreements.

[@BaatParBaat]

@@Muslimah1987 My submission is the extreme limit I can go to in public. But it was sad to see him dealing with a life and death problem for the Muslims in such a casual manner, only to protect his prejudices. It was even sadder to see him interpreting Iqbal and wrongfully accusing him of calumny against the worthy Maulana. This is not scholarship, mere sectarian prejudices being advanced as objective analysis.

[@abuumarali2831]

@@BaatParBaat You've made some very pertinent observations. Leaving aside the discussion of Maulana Madani's later political perspective, I found Shaikh Abdal Hakim Murad's treatment of other contributions made by this celebrated aalim and shaikh to be highly instructive. Along with reading some excerpts from Barbara D. Metcalf's biography of Maulana Madani, it seems Shaikh Murad has also adopted the general sentiment that runs through the works of Prof. Metcalf on these topics. When she writes about Maulana Madani and Muslim Nationalism in colonial India, so-called 'modernists' such as Iqbal and Jinnah are forcefully pitted against the traditionalist ulama who had promoted Composite Nationalism -- without paying due attention to how the political landscape of colonial India had taken shape in the interwar period (1918-1939). While much is made of the modernist-traditionalist divide and it is easy to identify ulama as genuine bearers of religious authority, such historians/analysts largely ignore the role and arguments of leading ulama who had become disillusioned with the Hindu leadership of the Congress and found no utility in Composite Nationalism for ensuring the due emancipation and empowerment of Indian Muslims. Farangi Mahal was an older seat of Islamic learning than the prestigious Deoband seminary, what were the reasons for the leading aalim and shaikh of Farangi Mahal, Maulana Abdul Bari Ansari Qadri (the first and foremost traditionalist authority who became politically active in 20th century Colonial India), to distance himself from the Congress in the mid-1920s? Why, after his demise in 1926, his successor at that seat of learning Maulana Inayatullah Farangi Mahli, and his son Maulana Jamal Mian Farangi Mahli had joined the Muslim League in the mid-1930s? More importantly, the highest office bearer of Darul Uloom Deoband, its long serving Patron, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi had resigned from that post in the mid-1930s owing to the rise of pro-Congress sentiments in that seminary; and 1938 onward (till his demise in 1943), based on his understanding of relevant Sharia principles and prevailing political dynamics, Maulana Thanvi had consistently supported the agenda of Muslim Separatism championed by the Muslim League. Maulana Thanvi was a direct deputy of that illustrious Sufi master Shaikh Haji Imdadullah Makki (whereas Maulana Madani was the deputy of Shaikh Makki's deputy, Maulana Gangohi), and he was by far the most prolific and widely published Deobandi aalim -- Maulana Thanvi's religious insight and authority delivered a much needed corrective to the uni-focal perspective of Maulana Madani (and associates) who had made the mistake of only seeing the foreign colonial power as their adversary and lost sight of the local hegemonic actors that would've made the sub-continent's Muslims a permanent powerless minority (the Congress had never agreed at any stage to have a weak center with a few subjects so that Muslim majority provinces could have maximum autonomy -- a demand made in the formulas of Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind, and previously also by the Muslim League). Maulana Thanvi had rightly pointed out the wrong analogy made by proponents of Composite Nationalism with the Prophet's Charter of Medina. Maulana Thanvi had pointed out that the composite order founded by the Prophet (SAW) at Medina had granted him the positions of chief executive and head of that city state; to the contrary, the free India for which the Congress was aiming was to have minimum autonomy for provinces and a strong center where universal adult franchise would always install Hindu dominated legislatures and cabinets. Such a united India, wasn't acceptable for Maulana Thanvi on Islamic grounds, so the maximum number of our subcontinent's Muslims had to be given an opportunity of escaping that fate of subservience to non-Muslims. Hopefully, the highly learned and respectable Shaikh Murad will also record a lecture on Maulana Thanvi to set the record of politico-religious leadership in that era straight.

[@tayyabshahzad688]

@@BaatParBaat I think Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad is trying to be inclusive. While I do think that Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad doesn't particularly share or support the Deobandi political views or religious views, he thinks it'd be improper to disregard the contributions they made for Islam, both in the Subcontinent and outside it.

[@robbykiller2323]

Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA the real legend of Deoband.

[@sahil16484]

It's a great lecture to know about the greatness of Shaikhul Hind Maulana Mahmudul Hasan and Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni. Their activism, their knowledge and their piety is no doubt exemplary... Jazak Allah for reminding us about these great souls... But Shaikh Abdal Hakim Murad is over simplifying the disagreements between Maududi, Iqbal and Maulana Madni. I am disappointed by his skewed understanding of Indian subcontinent and the way he gives passing statement on Maududi. Can he give evidence about his judgement on Maududi making claims about rejecting tradition to judge sound hadith? I feel he is making these unthoughtful statements without reading him properly... And this heirarchical traditionalism is also highly problematic... It sounds so Brahminical... Like if you haven't gone through the hands of the scholarly lineage a particular circle doesn't know, the other can't be credible... One can't understand Quran and Hadith from so many writings and scholars if the other circle of ulema doesn't recognise it's lineage... Read Maududi properly and you ll find him deriving so many of his thoughts from the tradition itself... How can you say that Maududi rejects tradition? Maududi didn't go to Deoband, he didn't get bait from the sufi lineage Shaikh regards highly, so he isn't worthy of speaking on Islam (it's reflected in the way he talks about Madani pointing towards Maududi as journalist, so he shouldn't issue fatwa)... What kind of Quranic approach is this? Any human being can be wrong in his/her understanding except the Prophet. You can disagree with anyone except Prophet. We shouldn't worship our scholars... That was Maududi's argument... And all this has to be based upon sound knowledge of Deen... It's not a depart from tradition but tradition itself...

[@Munzer1977]

When Jameelah Al-Mauseliyah (daughter of Sultan Nasir Abu Muhammad) made Hajj at the year 386H she gave cold drink to the entire pilgrims. brought along with her camels loaded with all sort of food, provided 500 more camels for the stranded(s), and dashed ten thousands gold coins on Ka’ba. During her stay she lit the sacred house with Amber Candles, freed 300 male slaves and 200 female slaves, and extended charity to all those who lived nearby

[@Pax-Africana]

OPEN SECRET We got conned by supremacists from either side but the primary sources tell us that Christianity=Islam and Islam=Christianity. So, rather than be talking about 2 religions, we should be talking about two Traditions as Paul himself put it: One Tradition for the Circumcised(Islam or the Authority of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15: 22-32) versus the Tradition for the Uncircumcised(the Council of Nicaea based on Paul's Gentilism or Filioism). Each one of these Traditions claiming exclusively the Pristine Apostolic Christianity. As always, remember that Messiah(Christ) is a Prophet(Messenger) like Moses... Deut. 18:15-19 Greco-Roman supremacy sucks; so does Arab-Qureish supremacy ! That said, If you want to know how the atheists' theory of "Document hypothesis" and the Protestants' "Sola Scriptura" are both the two sides of the same coin and why they are both worthless, read the article below... ------------------ ISRAEL AND THE NATIONS PAGAN Paul(Romans 9 thru 11) The Qur'an in the Qur'an(Reminder) refers to the Law of Moses. If anyone couldn't figure out that the title Qur'an on the cover of the book is a fraudulent one, then it is safe to argue that, that person doesn't understand the polemical exchanges between the pagans and the believers not even the content of the Bible for that matter. "We have given you the 7 oft-repeated verses and the glorious Qur'an..." Translation: We have given you the Fatiha and the Law of Moses as the basis for your legislations in rejection of the Roman pagan Law, the papal sacraments, and Trinity. Here is another one: "What! If this Qur'an is from God, you believe not, but a Rabbi among the Children of Israel attests to its similitude and believe while you proudly reject it..." Does this look like some words from God? What was the Jewish Rabbi doing in Mekka messing with Allah's revelation? LOL... Or was he just comparing two translations of the same Torah, one in Hebrew and the other in Arabic? The dude was a Prince-Legislator, a Founding Father, and a statesman "If you say the name(Mohammad) find the reality it names. O cross-eyed One, if you only one in two, I see two in one." Rumi PTICAL ILLUSION/FALSE REPELLENT! Jesus is Muhammad(the Praised-One), fools. A point was made but you guys missed it altogether due to your poor reading skills. But the adults and the Sufis in the room know that Muhammad is not a given or personal name but a substitute title, a euphemism for Christ(Messiah). Since Jesus is said to be that Christ(Messia), then Jesus is Muhammad. We make the difference between Islam and the Arab-Qureishits propaganda contained in the Hadiths, and the "Sira Rassul Allah," etc... That marketing gimmick was meant to capitalize on the pilgrimage to Mekka and not as historical facts. Kaabahism therefore is not Islam! For the "stone that the Mekkan builders rejected and exiled had become the cornerstone..." and it is our Lord doing. We also know that when someone promulgates a Constitution like the Constitution of Medina, receives embassies, passes legislations, proclaims a tax Codes, raises armies, signs treaties, etc... with some neighborhood nations, etc..., that person is in a role of a Founding Father like George Washington, Emperor Constantine, Cyrus the Great, Caesar Augustus or Alexander the Great, etc... We don't take the word "Prophet" in the literal sense. So, If you have ever wondered why a substitute title was needed for Jesus and a name shifting scheme for the Arabian Founding Father, here you have it: "Your people don't want to hear about Jesus. And when His name is mentioned, lo! your people burst into clamor thereby..." That is why an OPTICAL ILLUSION was created: We(the Children of Israel) send you, O Abu Quasim, among your own people so that they may believe in our God and His Messiah/Muhammad/Christ/Al-Massih, help Him, praise Him(Muhammad=the Praised-One), sing for Him evening and morning...." "Remember when Jesus asked, "who will assist me in the way of God? The disciples replied: 'we shall be the helpers of God. Bear witness we are Muslims.'" Hear O Israel, Jesus is the Messiah, i.e. Christ. By the way, According to Acts 11:26 is a Christian he who believes Jesus to be the Messiah, that is to say Christ, foretold by Moses in the Torah but rejected by Israel. "I will send the Christ/Messiah, a Prophet/Messenger like you Moses, Him, they must listen...." Deut.18:15-19; Acts 3:22-25; Acts 7: 1-49 ; John 4:24-26, etc... The word CHRISTIAN was coined in Antioch of Syria and not in Athens, Rome, or Boston. In that sense, Muslims are Christians because for Islam Jesus is the Christ(Al-Massih) announced in the Law(Torah) and the Prophets, born of the Virgin Mary. You may as well check the Transfiguration in Matthew 17:1-13 where Jesus "oversees" a meeting between Moses the Lawgiver and someone who would ratify the same Law for the Arabs(the descendants of Ishmael). In Genesis, Abraham was promised many Princes for Ishmael. So the Muslims are Christians certainly not of Paul's Tradition, yet still Christians but the Americans are not... Every American should know, then, that If Jesus is Lord, it stands to reason that Nature's god is NOT. Yet, Nature's god in the Jefferson Bible and in the so-called 'Declaration Of Independence" claims just that... And this is the official position of the American government because Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States and is the one who penned the so-called "declaration of independence" which became the Law of the land in the Constitution. Nature's god in the Jefferson Bible inspired the "Bill Of rights" and specially the First Amendment which states that every religion under nature is as valid as the next; this is why polytheism and Idol worship enjoy special protection under Natural Law which pushed out Canonical Law or Sharia Law. Nature's god states that Jesus did not resurrect because there is no such thing as resurrection of the dead; men die and worms take care of their bodies and that, most surely, wild dogs took care of Jesus' body. Nature's god claims that there is no supernatural, no miracles, no virginal birth, no revealed Law since Laws are a construct of societies and each society makes its own laws in accordance with its need. That the Ten Commandments were not revealed and are no better than the Law of Hammurabi. For Thomas Jefferson, the Apostle of Nature's god, Nature's god instituted government on earth to distribute rights without responsibility: right to liberty from morality, right to pursue happiness, happiness for all(We wonder how government will enforce happiness which is not a tangible good), and right to life... Paul, Jesus-Christ's Apostle to the "Pax Romana," on other hand instructed us that Government was instituted on earth by God to keep order, render Justice for the equality of the Children of God in view of the Last Judgment. Nature's god insists that Life stops here and that there is NO immortality: "Let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die, and nothing awaits us after death. Don't be missing out..." Jesus said man was born corrupted and can purify himself with the means God put at his disposal. Nature's god however holds that man was born perfect but got corrupted by government. We wonder If all the jails built across their lands are only for members of government. Nature's god is truly Satan who set out to contradict the True God on every single line! So If you are an American you should worry about the subversive nature of the American founding documents, America's Nature's god, and the fate of your impious founding fathers who worked hard to mislead mankind away from the Gospel. Enough of that circular reasoning. Please worry not about Islam; it has been around for more than 1000 years. I am just wondering If America would be around that long...!!! Worry about the disastrous fate of America, that house built in the sand...!!! Through Mary, God...!!! More in: 1/The Making Of The Arabian Messiah(Christ), Sole Ruler Of Mankind Like Augustus Caeasar. 2/Christianity: Circumcised(Islam) Versus Filioism(Uncircumcised)...!! 3/Son of God: Paul versus John vs. Nicaea...

[@Master-tu4kd]

Ahmed Madni, Gonghohj, Nanautvi, here mentioned were deobandi. Does the Shaykh know that in the subcontinent this stem of Islam (deobandism) is generally considered an aberration of the Sunni tradition, and we don't consider these scholars as our scholars?

[@youngomniverse35]

This is the beleif of Barelvi scholars, pretty much everyone else has no problem with it.

[@saiparker]

Wake up brother. Enemies are preparing for our genocide, unfortunately we are still stuck with division. The biggest reason for our worthless, toothless state who are being lynched at will. Unity n accommodating minor differences is the ONLY way.

[@Master-tu4kd]

@@saiparker I didn't mention anything about division. Because I made a distinction between the sects, so that people could be clear in who they follow, you concluded that my making the distinction will cause violence and the like. I did not for a moment say anything about or promote violence. I merely made the distinction so that there is a clear difference, however much or little, between the deobandis and the Barelvi. The deobandis are free to follow their own path there's no compulsion, and all Muslims will be judged against the truth. More to the point than anything to do with sectarian wars (to which conclusion the brother here jumped), I called in question the lecture because I, as a follower of the Shaykh and his work for a long time, was struck surprised that a lecture should be given on someone to whom we don't consider as a leader or scholar of our own. Allama Iqbal even was critical in his poetry, of Hussain Ahmed Madni. So you see, it's got nothing to do with sectarianism but about being clear in who you follow, because it is after all a matter of akidah.

[@youngomniverse35]

@@Master-tu4kd That's because Shaykh Hussain Madani was against the notion if dividing a country on the basis if religion. Both men held a debate/discussion on this and they reconciled terms between each other to my knowledge. Both desired what was best for the muslims but they had different ideas of this.

[@tayyabshahzad688]

@@youngomniverse35 Not only that of Barelvis, but also the vast majority of the mainstream Sunni Muslims (who are not Barelvis); those who deem celebrating the Mawlid permissible, believe in ziyarah of the graves of the righteous, etc. The aforementioned practices have the consensual agreement of the majority of the world's Sunni Muslims upon their permissibility. The Deobandis, while being traditionalists, were too pedantic about avoiding bid'ah, which explains their prohibition of such practices, living of course as they were in a country where the majority were Hindus and so they didn't want the Hindu influence corrupting their beliefs. But the mainstream Muskim tradition nevertheless made room for what is known as a bid'ah hasana (good bid'ah), based on incidents from the Sunnah and the tradition, which explains their acceptance of practices such as the Mawlid.

[@j6026]

We had expected much better from Sheikh Murad in judging and understanding Maududi, politics of the Partition, and Sufism and Deaboandi reformism in the Subcontinent. Moreover, much of the lecture is at best based on flimsy evidence and is definitely not at all balanced as we would expect from respected Sheikh.

[@abuhaaris123]

The shaykh definitely makes a blunder when mentioning Maududis method of looking at hadith. Ive heard of criticism of maududi but have never come across this accusation before! I wonder where Sh Abdal Hakim found this. Having had some experience with Maududi followers and read his works id be shocked if the accusation has any basis.