I asked Steely Dan's engineer what makes a recording sound good

[@davidhartley94]

Thanks for watching! If enjoyed this video, please consider subscribing! 🙂 My classical guitar course is also available on Skillshare! 🎸 skl.sh/3T1wUCi

[@lucasoheyze4597]

This sucked.

[@markgoodman5412]

This fellow completely is right. I like him, and a very interesting guy@@lucasoheyze4597/

[@SherylKilgore]

@@lucasoheyze4597 jerk!

[@officialWWM]

The irony of the music industry is that at the age of 58, I finally think I have something worthwhile to say. I’ve also developed enough skill to play and produce it. The problem is, no one wants to hear music from an old guy. When I was young and enthusiastic, I didn’t have the skills or experience to write a decent song 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@drbassface]

Imagine if when Paul met John Lennon, John said sure….go read these Pro Tools Manuals and then give me a call…

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

If its good enough people will listen to it

[@Rebelrenaissance]

I'll listen. What's the link?

[@officialWWM]

@@stopmakingeyesatme1290 thanks, that’s great advice!

[@officialWWM]

@@crazyprayingmantis5596 maybe but you need money to get it front of them.

[@odmusicman]

He made a great point about trying not to let the tech get in the way of the music. It's a real problem. I'll guarantee you Elton and Billy Joel never had to spend all night figuring out sidechain compression settings.

[@jagmarc]

They had their own people to do what they couldn't do themselves. Well aside from the mad rush to be who's first to make a hit using the 'factory demo mode' settings of the latest just purchased tech, the Engineer has to control the tech and try best not let it control him or her.

[@fess04]

now musicans have to do it all themselves@@jagmarc

[@jagmarc]

I feel for modern engineers now it's more than ever the technology tries to control the engineer @@fess04

[@Gang-25j]

I mean that’s common sense

[@Alex-Defatte]

Lol it shouldn't take anyone all night. I can do all my compression and E.Q. for every instrument going through my interface within 20 minutes. Also, a good musician becoming a producer will spend nights just trying things, experimenting. Most people can't play instruments and their music is crafted digitally, which is fine, there's an art to it and it doesn't always get the credit it deserves. You even heard him say it's not about where you mic the grand piano, it's what sounds the best and what is euphoric through the speakers. Music nowadays has become more about what feels good instead of the chemistry between a band and their musicianship. There's nothing wrong with that and I say that as someone who loves cranking a Marshall and jamming with fast punk drummers.

[@artysanmobile]

Bill is a magical mixer. I’ll never forget my one time working with him, how quickly and intuitively he found the very essence of the song, on strange equipment to him, and just nailed a brilliant mix. I was hired to bring my barely complete second Artisan Mobile to record Whitney Houston with no audience at the Fontainebleau Hotel on Miami Beach. Hmmm…. As it turns out, take 4 of that session is the “I Will Always Love You” that sat at the top of the charts for 16 weeks. What an auspicious start that was for my second truck. This is all etched permanently in my memory. Bill’s otherworldly ability at the mixer, his clear impatience with the incomplete lighting in the truck, approaching a visibly shaking Whitney to change to a different microphone and offering her my reassurance. Such strange things are the lifeblood of remote recording and this was a bit of a high point. I remember looking down the length of my truck at, left to right - Kevin Costner, David Foster, and Bill Schnee. How do you forget that?! Kevin was her rock, her loving support in what I now know was a very difficult life. I became a fan of his work just by watching that tenderness. Everyone knew #4 was it, but of course we did one more and laughed it off. I hope Bill’s memories of that day are fond as well.

[@billschnee8219]

Very much so!

[@DrunkGuru]

What was the most impactful strategy or technique applied to the mix ?

[@mumbles215]

I saw a interview with Clive Davis where he said he took the rough mix of that song that David sent him and he carried that DAT for months. Clive’ said that why went out. That rough mix. He said foster did more to the track. More orchestra. Proper mixing. But Clive didn’t like it. He liked the rough mix that he heard for months off of that DAT. So it seems that song was never “mixed” it was a great sounding rough that captured the song.

[@groverw7507]

What's your thoughts on Tom Dowd? He is credited with engineering the best live rock album 50 years ago, Live at Fillmore East.

[@artysanmobile]

@@groverw7507 I considered Tom a friend, seeing him regularly for years. It was a terrible loss when Tom passed away. He was a natural collaborator, a source of endless, fascinating life stories, and a genuinely modest, kind man. I missed his glory years, working as his engineer in the 80s on a project he was producing. The hours flew by working with Tom, a true raconteur. His work speaks for itself, filling hallways with platinum at Criteria. He is so missed.

[@grene1955]

Wow, great interview! I am 68 and released my first album of original songs in 2019. I would have LOVED to have someone like Bill guiding me!

[@garrettbrown6770]

I love how well established he is, but he doesn’t present like a guy with an old brain. He has both retro and modern perspectives that expresses authentic wisdom through the eras because he has actually been paying attention and kicking ass the whole time. I am a Bill fan now

[@igor5041]

The one name that always pops when the subject is late 70's and 80's music production is Jeff Porcaro. Amazing how respected and remembered he still is 30+ after his passing. Great video. Didn't think I'd watch it all but the whole thing was as fast as a click. Thank you.

[@JRouben]

I had the good fortune of assisting Bill back in the late 1970's at Sunset Sound. He had come in to mix an Olivia Newton-John album. In two hours he had a song completely mixed and sounding perfect. Some of the world's greatest engineers had walked through those gates but no one worked as fast with such amazing results. This interview is a must-watch for anyone working in music. He speaks the truth about the abundance of technology out there. It's the paradox of choice. Pick a handful of tools and learn them really well. Would love to hear what he's been working on.

[@redplanet9162]

Nice

[@_caseyjames]

I bet that was an incredible experience! Awesome

[@markr.devereux3385]

I'm in awe of this guy. I would feel honored to have this exceptional engineer working the board. Him and EDDIE KRAMER.

[@hbrookes]

I have at least 100 plugins and use maybe 4!

[@dannyhood4007]

@@markr.devereux3385 I would love to hear a music production eddie Krame. Electronic psychedelic music with heavier drums instead of sample presets. Heavy electronic drums are thunderous sound. But electronic music doesn’t really do heavy drums except amatures.

[@carlasker9285]

Aja and Gaucho are masterclasses in engineering and mixing.

[@griffini19]

True that!!! Gaucho is one of the best sounding records I’ve ever heard.

[@etamommy]

I wish the Gaucho songs were better though; still good but nowhere near those of Aja which are all perfect!@@griffini19

[@edaudio]

It started with the arrangement and performances - at which point the engineer's gig was to not £¢€¥ it up. Not to discount the engineer's work, but they had a lot to work with and plenty of sonic real estate.

[@williamflinchum-qo6ch]

I bought them both the weeks they came out inn77/80 and I wore them out. Steely Dan has been my favorite band since 74! To me Steely Dan and Stevie Wonder are the two best groups out there!😊😊

[@billyidol2115]

Gaucho is still my favorite album by Steely dan. I just love Babylon Sisters, Hey Nineteen, and Time out of Mind, I consider to be one of their best songs they ever did. It's just got everything Steely Dan ever aspired to be in that one song. Hell even Glamor Profession is a pretty cool tune from Gaucho

[@soupernutt9508]

Roger Nichols was "Steely Dan's engineer". This man, Bill Schnee, was one of three other engineers who helped record the tracks on "Aja". I am not at all minimizing Bill's contributions to the beautiful sound of the album- only trying to give credit where due.

[@scotthoyt8970]

Yes. Roger "The Immortal" Nichols and his sidekick drum computer, "Wendel", who is doing the drumming on "Hey Nineteen".

[@bassiclogic]

Aja was one of the best engineered/mixed albums ever!

[@wiseoldfool]

In the same league as DSOTM, imo.

[@ronniesnakehissiii9413]

Aja is amazing to listen to. Definitely one of if not THE best engineered & mixed albums.

[@sseltrek1a2b]

yup....it sounds amazing...

[@ryanboyce3365]

That solo Gadd plays on Aja is to this day mind blowing! Great record. That shuffle Purdie plays on Home At Last….. Beautiful.

[@patrickmckibben1932]

Yes! Yes it is.

[@sea-ferring]

In an age of hundreds of takes and comps and pitch correction and quantization in an effort to get the perfect sound, Bill's ideas are so important and many modern producers should understand them.

[@christophermitchum6829]

Thanks, we need to reconnect to reality 😎🎶👍🤔🤪

[@griffini19]

If musicians are taking hundreds of takes… they would be much better off practicing and becoming better musicians. So silly. Great musicians do 1, 2, maybe 3 takes. Usually 1. Get to work

[@ampstudios]

that is not always true, unrealistic expectations all the time @@griffini19

[@sea-ferring]

@@griffini19 I was exaggerating. I understand the urge. Producers who have musicians ears hear music differently. When you are capable of hearing the slightest pitch problem or timing that is off and you have the tools to rid yourself if these issues that most people don't notice it's somewhat understandable. It's just unfortunate that these producers/musicians don't understand that they are removing the humanity from their music and as a side effect they are creating an audience that doesn't know what organic music sounds like. It's not super smart but it sure mskes these people huge amounts of cash so perhaps I'm the dummy.

[@keithsquawk]

unlike the 8o's and 90's where it took weeks to get the right snare sound or take after take of the vocals? 😊

[@isaacjohnklein]

Bill Schnee is my boss, Steve Tyrell’s engineer. He’s a very kind man and has a very talented son, Oliver, who is a genius in his own right.

[@pangeaproxima3681]

ok, ok...

[@moosey62]

So, the engineer's engineer's engineer?

[@mortonwilson795]

" 48 tracks, just a little too much to handle." Master of understatement. We started working with a Neve w Flying Faders & a Studer 24 Track in 83 and it was wonderful given we were knocking out a TV commercial almost every day . . . and for bigger soundtrack and album projects it made life a lot easier, for sure. One of the key benefits was that once levels were more or less in place you could turn your attention to the more subtle aspects of the process - Lexicon & Plate Reverb, Eventide Harmoniser etc. etc. I still tend to see ProTools as a multi-track and follow the same process using analog rack mount stuff where it's preferable to plug-ins (and actual recording in the room, of course). Thanks for a great interview! (Big Steely Dan fan, BTW).

[@Guitar_Wolf]

Hey Morton, I agree. I'm a musician and composer (real instruments) and I just started with Pro Tools a few months ago. I'm not great at tech, so I mostly see it as a tape machine with more flexibility. I try to get the sound right, at the mic and with my performance so I have to do as little as possible dicking with the computer. Never using more than 8 tracks Any quick tips or advice to refining this approach and improving upon it? I just want to focus on great songs and performances, and use the DAW to capture that well and sound clean.

[@mortonwilson795]

@@Guitar_Wolf , sounds like you are well on the way already. I think getting the best sound from your live source is a start. We tend to mic it up and then record a bit so I can check what's going down against what I'm hearing in the room. I prefer a touch of reverb in the cans when recording. Listen to the take and then EQ as necessary. Then go for a few takes and look at modulation / delays etc. (if working with a backing track) and maybe double track - again, depending on the part and the role it plays in the track. With plug-ins I find it's best to wait for mix stage so all the parts work as whole . . . I guess that's pretty obvious 😀It's easy to get carried away with a million tracks available and countless plug-ins but over time I've arrived at a few core FX depending on whether it's nylon string, steel string or a particular electric - I see it like 'refining my pedalboard' so there's a coherence, continuity across tracks if it's an EP or album type project. Anyway, thanks for the reply and have fun! Cheers.

[@Guitar_Wolf]

@@mortonwilson795 Fantastic advice, thanks so much for taking the time! 👍🏻

[@steenstube]

In my younger audiophile days, an album with BS automatically got my attention, and often got in my bag because of him as a producer or recording engineer. The sound was transparent, has punch and sounded dynamic.

[@docsavage8640]

😆 another guy who has music to show off his stereo system instead of a stereo system to play his music

[@steenstube]

@@docsavage8640 It was in my younger days, which is about 45 years ago, my friend. My preferences for using my music system has changed. Politeness is appearently not one of your competences.

[@thetonetosser]

The Dan's drum tracks from Katy to Gaucho still sound amazing and like they were recorded yesterday. They're right up there with the lead vocal. Incidentally, Bill Engineered Jeff Porcaro's one and only instructional video.

[@allenf.5907]

I always wanted to give Gary Katz the credit. The drum sounds on the Dan recordings - brilliant sound.

[@AidanMmusic96]

Rick Beato’s interview with Chuck Rainey was remarkable. Supposedly Steve Gadd’s drums on Aja was an overdub, and Chuck remembered Jeff Porcaro at the kit during basic tracking for the tune!

[@Zif-the-Old-Herring]

I had my main computer die and when moving to the back up I realized I didn't need 304 plugins. I painfully thinned out the herd down to 3 comps, 3 eq's, and only 3 of any other plugs. There was, indeed, a withdrawal angst going on. I have swapped out a few plugins, but only after spending honest time with what was available. Trusting your ears becomes so much more productive without the illusion there is a magic plugin just waiting to be the hero of the session. I did move to an analogue MT22.

[@LesterBrunt]

Yeah one time I deleted all plugins and all presets and just went with bare stock plugins. Learned so much from that period.

[@darrynfarrugia9904]

This is so great. Thank you David for a great interview. Bill has recorded so many of my favourite albums and his book is wonderful. I even had the pleasure of going to a session in his studio. I love what he says about drummers here, too (I'm a drummer). A true living treasure.

[@timbushong4387]

What a great interview and grateful attitude Bill has - gotta get the book now!

[@ValentinoBurton-b1r]

Aja and Gaucho are masterclasses in engineering and mixing.. What a gem, this producer is a legend..

[@herrbonk3635]

Gaucho sounds good indeed. Aja not so much. Lots of TIM distortion in the treble on that one, and also a very uneven sonic picture among the tunes. Sounds pretty random.

[@cactusjackNV]

@@herrbonk3635 Aja not so much? 🤣🤣 I think you are describing how much you like the album and your perceived continuity of the songs/album as a whole. Sound quality wise it's excellent. Those are 2 separate discussions. The former being subjective.

[@herrbonk3635]

@@cactusjackNV _"Sound quality wise it's excellent"_ ... Hmm? Have you even listened to it? I mean, for real, not just copying what fanatics say... Again, the treble is distorted on many tracks, including "Aja" itself. Not just the typical TIM (transient intermodulation distortion) of the mid 70s, but clipping as well. Especially on snare and cymbals. And the sound balance on tracks such as "Black Cow" are totally off compared to "Aja" and others. So tired of this SD religion...

[@monnimonnickendam7289]

Aja has an epic sound. People don't engineer like Bill. Just make noise. Steely Dan's recording techniques were crazy, they were the ultimate studio session musicians, perfectionists. It would drive participating artists up the wall sometimes!

[@morbidmanmusic]

"Just make noise"? Plenty of great engineers today. He is just one of many.

[@monnimonnickendam7289]

stop crying @@morbidmanmusic I'm talking about the music - pushing the levels up to "make your ears bleed" isn't good production...learn to read

[@louise_rose]

@@monnimonnickendam7289 He replied to me too, the guy seems to have no sense of nuances, or any understanding of how the goals of studio engineering have changed since the seventies (as you implied, today's "preferred hit sound" is much more compressed and with sharper, colder edges than it was back then)

[@maxxhenry]

All I knew was that I wanted to record material. It was only when I heard Chick Corea's 'Love Castle' through my brand new Adam Audio T8V's that I realized exactly how vital the mixing process is to the overall sound of your songs. I decided to take every aspect of the recording process upon myself after that because I realized only I knew how my songs have to sound. I have been self-teaching and developing my mixing skills with the same passion and dedication as with the compositions themselves.

[@ArkAmps]

Sounds a lot like my story, and now others want me to record and produce for them!

[@ScottMcDavid-Music]

Did he ever even mention Roger Nichols? Roger Nichols invented the "Wendel" (?) and was head engineer from "pretzel logic" to "two against nature"

[@catface101]

Richie Podolor passed away in March of last year. I know him from my research of the Trident A-Range consoles which they had at American Recording Co. May he rest in peace

[@JohnSummerford]

12:52 Beautiful description. Thanks for putting this interview out, really enjoyed it.

[@davidhartley94]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jagmarc]

Second that 👍

[@letter2steve]

Thanks David. I've been telling my much younger friends how important these recordings have been. I really appreciate your efforts to document the genius of Bill's work.

[@richardchampagne7100]

Fantastic interview of the best engineer/producer. Aja is my favourite work of art…probably because of Bills talents in capturing everything those multiple drummers helped in guiding the other great musicians to what has become an incredible album

[@brilton1]

This aligns with my current philosophy around trying to capture a good, organic performance recorded well - minus a click track - and to not be too fussy about it. I wear ProTools like a familiar old house coat but the tech is subservient to the human aspect of music. Hopefully

[@johnpaulpatton9786]

Great interview! I like his last statement about remaining relevant, being able to still work with today's artists and being excited to see what comes next. Having a sense of adventure and not being stuck in a rut is definitely the key to continuum.

[@christopherlauter9403]

I ran across your page by accident, I love everything about music from start to finish, and I must say that you’re page is one of the best on KZbin. At 65 years old, I grew up during the heyday of music. I was very fortunate to have growing up in the late 60s early 70s. It’s so nice to have the younger generation take over the steering wheel so to speak keep up the fantastic work and thank you for all of your hard work. I really enjoy your channel.

[@henryjraymondiii961]

A music Great. You don't have to ne a teenager to realize what he says about DAW's is spot on. Make the song. I don't care much about lots and lots of sound tweaks, as the clock and calendar speed by, eliminating the actual meaning in favor of the "lucky" sort of effect one can...buy...and use instead of a real search for what will spread the meaning of the life experience you want to give as an Artist, Capital "A". I will re-watch/listen to this interview, and I don't even hardly have any "chops". I still get results because I need to. Translate the need to communicate for real, instead of fooling people, and then you have something.

[@manifestgtr]

12:55 Same here…I’m a career guitarist but a drum geek, at heart. I’m nowhere near as good as the guys I play with but that doesn’t stop me from playing and collecting drum stuff. The ability a good drummer has to move you is enviable…they can make you nod your head, they can make an entire floor of people start dancing with a simple drum intro, they can make you lunge your body forward into the next section with the right fill/downbeat. Bass and drums are the most important roles in any given ensemble. They’re the entire backbone of everything you do and the band is only as good as its rhythm section.

[@gerrycoogan6544]

This is true to great extent but I have never lost the belief that the most important factor is a wonderful singer who can deliver a magical tune. There are countless bands who have great rhythm sections but they don't get traction because they don't have a vocalist who delivers memorable tunes.

[@manifestgtr]

@@gerrycoogan6544 Yeah for sure…the singer is the most important element, period. I’m talking more about the ensemble…the instruments, etc.

[@heinzr9734]

Thank you very much for this super good interview with Bill. I'm just a layman and a connoisseur but Bill is so right with everything he says about the development of the music itself, but also about the recording technique. Bill explains how to achieve the best possible reproduction in my home. That is, he sees the recording as a virtual space of its own to experience the right musical emotion at home. What's great about youtube: I get to know the hidden heroes like Bill Schnee, who, unbeknownst to me, I have admired for decades because of his work for Aja and Goucho, for example.

[@stephenharding428]

Fabulous interview, thank you. Aja is one of my favourite albums of all time!

[@robpoma3874]

Mine too! Everything about that album is absolutely the best.

[@DaisyHollowBooks]

I’m one of those old dudes who moans a lot about contemporary music. I really like his attitude, and will take his advice to heart.

[@notozknows]

I was lucky enough to have a mother who was always played 'current' music since my birth in 1963. I started out listening to Motown as a baby into the disco, 80's metal. She also had a small record collection that I would sneak and play when she would leave to run errands. I remember being very careful handling them and making sure I placed everything correctly back in their assigned spots. My little brother would say, "You're going to get in trouble!" Lol. I still play rock guitar at 60 yo. This dude here is great, shoulda asked him, "Did anyone ever bug him to teach them 'how all the machines worked'" Great work I'll subscribe.

[@timmotel5804]

Good Day. I just found this channel. This was very enjoyable, informative and I defiantly can relate to much of what he talks about. I've been a drummer since 1964, and I have done some recording in studios. Thank You so much for posting this interview. I have subscribed. Best Regards

[@davidkellymitchell4747]

He's a walking encyclopedia on audio and production. With the knowledge he has he doesn't know where to begin. He's seen it all. Nice interview!

[@Torch315]

Great video, David. Congratulations. Incisive questions and interview angles.

[@kristopherkrueger4617]

I learned, & got paid to, record songs that started with getting strong, discreet (8 mics maximum) live recording of the drum kit, along with (scratch or keeper) bass & rhythm guitar tracks, but mostly, MAINLY, " building the house" DRUMS FIRST. Modern samples are getting better & better, but LIVE DRUMS ROOL, E~DRUMS DROOL!

[@thefleaflop]

Hi,.... And many thanks to you for the video, and your idea to interview Bill. Big fan and didn't even know it.... All the best and keep it up!....

[@Hammerman48]

The song and performance should always come first…..the recording medium second. The technology should be the assistant to the creative process.

[@minsterhill]

Kudos gent Bill and co. are indeed very talented!

[@lionheartroar3104]

Bill's albums sound great. Clean, punchy and dynamic. Not all the over compressed overly loud garbage that seems to be today's engineering standard.

[@bingbong7316]

A lot of that is down to modern digital mastering techniques and pushing the mix into limiters. It ends up compressed in a horrible way, stops breathing, it's dead music. If I can turn a CD up a couple of notches at home and it still sounds good, bravo. Some of the remasters of old classics are awful though.

[@dirg3music]

Yeah the loudness wars have definitely taken their toll. Thankfully tho with streaming platforms and such settings LUFS limits it incentivizes engineers to back off a little and thats causing a lot of people to start creating more dynamically interesting music. Dynamics > Loudness every time, and im glad to see more people realizing that. @@bingbong7316

[@driftking1145]

I like loud lol

[@morbidmanmusic]

It could have bee not done with old gear too. Digital has nothing to do with it.compressors are compressors.

[@231krw]

Such an interesting interview. Loved hearing what Bill had to say and his "look/vision" of music creation is very insightful and humble. Now I have a new book to go read.

[@MiC-T]

Its not about reality. It's about whatever's coming out of the speakers is euphoric. Put that on my headstone.

[@TimotheeLee]

Great interview, it hit just the right balance with your questions. Mr. Schnee answers weren't too negative or too positive which gave the feeling that he really gave an well thought out, honest answer, a pretty rare occasion now a days. Fascinating to get the mind of such a legend. Thank You very much.

[@tomsherwood4650]

Lot of recordings I enjoy were made in the 50s 60s and 70s. I can hear alot of music that is superbly recorded from those eras. The interesting thing is the identifiable "sounds" of the production that are never duplicated these days. Like some stuff recorded 67-72 has a sheen, a streak of just sunshine running thru it. A glow. That is why old stuff still sells and apparently is a rare gem that cannot be made in a jillion channel digital state of the art studio, or maybe no one knows how or cares to.

[@gerrycoogan6544]

I hear you. There are some sensational recordings of timeless "pop" classics which even date back to the 1940s. Glenn Miller, for example. "Chatanooga Choo-Choo" (1941) still sounds absolutely sensational, as does "In The Mood ", for that matter. It still gets feet tapping and fills dance floors. The engineering on Sinatra's "Songs For Swinging Lovers" (1956) is beyond criticism to this day. That album still explodes out of my sound system every time I play it. Jackie Wilson's "Reet Petite" (1957) is another masterpiece which, to this day, turns heads towards loudspeakers regardless of what has preceded it. I would also add a recording which overwhelmed me for years after I first heard it on a vinyl 45 on an old-fashioned valve powered gramophone - "I Am The Walrus", in mono, by The Beatles. For all of its technical limitations, that recording opened my ears up to an entire universe of sonic colours and possibilities. These are just a few random examples but what I'm trying to say is that there is a magical quality about these recordings which I believe would be impossible to reproduce today, regardless of how brilliantly they could be performed by virtuoso musicians in state-of-the-art studios under the oversight of the best engineers and producers. Classic recordings of great music are ultimately the almost miraculous product of the very times in which they were created by the very best musicians, engineers and producers in the business. They were born of the moment and if that moment wasn't captured as it occurred, it was never going to happen again. Referencing George Martin again, advising a sound engineer who was temporarily standing in for him as a producer: "If four Beatles are in the studio at the same time, something magical will unquestionably happen. Make sure that you capture it."

[@Vor_Tex_Sun]

I started 10 years ago. Recording myself. It sounded awful at first but now i get it. You need to pour hundreds of hours into it to get it. After while you get the flow and the feel about what is right. Weather it be mixing or even mic placement

[@svtbass]

I did a record with Bill back in the 80s NYC.. It was a fun .. Roger Nichols was in on the production too

[@StratsRUs]

Bedroom recordings really are on a better and different level to before. But you need the space to make the magic noise !

[@BitsBytesBobs]

When I studied engineering and production at Berklee College. Steely Dan's albums mixed by Bill Shnee are used as reference tracks.

[@geoffschuller4875]

Such a nice interview! Thank you! I loved the insights he gave about how record companies actually supported artists while they were developing. That was nice to hear.

[@terryhayward7905]

If you want to learn to be a good engineer, get hold of a good quality analogue desk, and work with a local band on live shows. You will learn how to do what you need with what you have available. I started out on a 16 channel no name desk working with a soul band many years ago. Now I am retired but at the end I was working festivals on Midas digital desks which saved carrying big racks of gates, compressors, effects etc, but the early days were where I really learned to get the sound without all of the bells and whistles.

[@olearyml57]

Lovely interview. Really insightful too. Well done both.

[@sseltrek1a2b]

one of the worst things to happen to the music industry was the shift away from "artist development"...now, you have to have all your stuff together at a very high level right out of the gate, or you're done...

[@juliocesarpereira4325]

Very good interview. I'll sure acquire Bill's book.

[@winstonsmith8240]

I know Aja is one of the best albums ever. It's not only great music, it captures the spirit of the time. Magnificent. D'you think he'd be interested in producing an album for me?

[@bbqdrecords5109]

It still comes down to how good your ears are! There lies the difference between a good producer and one who is not so good. What do you hear? What does the song need? John Lennon said, don't get in the way of the song, help it along. How is the EQ? Do your ears tell you instantly what the sound of the song needs? It doesn't take much. The tape or, the recorder is a canvas. It's what you put on it! Bill has the entire process down to an art. God bless people like him. The end result is just so good to listen to.

[@plugplagiate1564]

mr. schnee is speaking my words. the how to do a proper mixing job is not the ability to handle sophisticated hardware, but to recognise the human in the machine.

[@morbidmanmusic]

Stop romantasizing. It's both.

[@mvwoon]

Spot on about the sad state of over-produced, over-monopolized recording industry. They create their own products then lease them. Well said.

[@petermacmillan6756]

Bill Schnee is a brilliant engineer, and deserves every bit of the praise that comes to him. Here's another great perspective: David Briggs on How to Make Records In the Neil Young biography Shakey, written by Jimmy McDonough, there’s a long quote from David Briggs on how to make records, and a little bit about what he thought of Neil Young: I can teach you everything I know in an hour. Everything. That’s how simple it is to make records. Nowadays, buddy, the technician is in control of the medium. They try to make out like it’s black magic, or flyin’ a spaceship. I can teach anybody on this planet how to fly the spaceship. If you look at the modern console, there’ll be thirty knobs - high frequency, low frequency, midfrequency, all notched in little tiny, tiny, teeny tiny degrees - and it’s all bullshit. All this stuff doesn’t matter, and you can’t be intimidated. You just ignore it - all of it. I walk into studios with the biggest console known to mankind, and I ask for the schematic and say, “Can you patch from here to here and eliminate the ENTIRE board?” I just run it right into the tape machines. All the modern consoles, they’re all made by hacks, they’re not worth a shit, they sound terrible. None of it touches the old tube stuff - like the green board from Heider’s. It has two tone controls - high end, low end and a pan knob - and that’s it. I had great good fortune when I was a kid and started makin’ records. I made ‘em at Wally Heider’s, Gold Star, so all the people that taught me were Frank Dimidio, Dave Gold, Stan Ross, Dean Jensen - these guys were the geniuses of the music business, still are. They taught me more about sound and how sound is made and the principles of doing it, and it’s unshakably correct what they said to me: You get a great sound at the source. Put the correct mike in front of the source, get it to the tape the shortest possible route - that’s how you get a great sound. That’s how you do it. All other ways are work. The biggest moment of my life - the one I haven’t been able to get past every, really - is 1961, when I first got to L.A. I got invited to Radio Recorders to see Ray Charles, and I walk into the studio, and Ray’s playin’ all the piano parts with his left hand, reading a braille score with his right hand, singing the vocal live while a full orchestra played behind him. So I sat there and I watched. And I went, “This is how records are made. Put everybody in the fuckin’ room and off we go.” In those days everybody knew they had to go in, get their dick hard at the same time and deliver. And three hours later they walked out the fuckin’ door with a record in their pocket, man. Of course, in those days they didn’t have eight- , sixteen- , twenty-four- , forty-eight- , sixty-four-track, ad nauseum, to fuck people up, and that is what fucked up the recording business and the musicians of today, by the way - fucked ‘em all up to where they’ll never be the same, in my opinion. People realized they could do their part…later. Play their part and fix it later. And with rock and roll, the more you think, the more you stink.

[@CarpenterForeman]

I remember reading this while working my way through the book. At the time I was like, “yeah, that makes perfect sense!” 20 years of experience later and I’m not so certain. Briggs’ recordings aren’t that great. I LOVE Neil Young but there’s no way in hell I’m ever going to point to one of his records as a good example of sound engineering.

[@gianni1646]

David, this was so enlightening. Thanks to you and Bill for this interview. Gianni❤

[@thetomster7625]

"he sees music as an art form"... it pains me to some degree, that you have to say it, because for a lot of people - lets face it: studios - its not an art form, its a business... fortunately - and I'm only a hobby musician and thus only meet the low end of production - I only met musicians and engineers that all see it as an art form

[@pangeaproxima3681]

ok, ok...

[@jgunther3398]

i understand what he means when he says it's not about reality. the mic can want to be an instrument itself. but i think maybe it should be at least more about reality. i think we could appreciate a mic'ed room with steely dan playing. the song aja has something that sounds like a marimba and it would be great if it sounded exactly like a marimba and a little bit distant. all steely dan records that i remember had that "euphoric" but kind of plastic-y and not real sound. i would sneak a sony mini-disc recorder and a sony lapel mic into venues and get some truly remarkable recordings very simply (if i say so myself). including symphony orchestra with a soloist

[@urex1717]

To this old music fan, ears and soul are what make recordings sound good. I grew up around a whole bunch of music fans and while we all liked the same music, it never moved them as much as it moved me and I didn't know it at the time because when you are young, you think that everyone hears it and experiences the way that you do. Having said that, those of us with ears and soul could never have experience really good music without the Bill Schnee's of this world. As a postscript, soul doesn't refer to 'soul music' but rather whatever that essence is inside of all of us that is realized by some of us.

[@mrreemann3739]

How old was Michelangelo when he painted the Siatene chapel! The paint dropped into his eyes by candle light while he laid on scaffolding. But he never gave up❤

[@hirokomlm131]

One thing I've learned about modern music is that it's all technically perfect sounding, and that can be intimidating, but then you realize that there are no more songs that you want to listen to twice. I think modern music has left a huge opportunity open for artists who are willing to put raw, organic, primal performances down that actually resonate with humans and take them to that other world.

[@a2ndopynyn]

Why do you think that "Rich Men North Of Richmond" has lit the country on fire? Not only do the lyrics speak to the struggles of the Everyman, not only is the performance torn straight from the center of his guts, the song itself is a bona fide brand-new standard. What the newer generations don't have is that _fire_ in their bellies. There's no passion for anything but the money & fame. And that makes songs into widgets: disposable, interchangable, unmemorable.

[@sirzebra]

@@a2ndopynyn Do you really beleive that pile of horseshit you just spouted ? Talking about music as if it had anything to do with whatever is in the charts just tells the world you have no clue about what's out there these days, it doesnt say anything about music itself, just your ignorance of the best contemporary parts of it. The industry around it as always been just that : an industry. Real, raw artist have always been there, are not a dying breed, and have now access to technology in their bedroom that someone like Bill could've only dreamt of. Sure, they might not hit the charts as in "the good old days" but how many real talents just didnt make it to a studio in those "good" old days ? You just have to look at the jazz renaissance to know you're profoundly wrong about the state of "newer generation" you're just jaded, and sadly for you, not up to date with all the wonderfull music out there. Instead of wasting your time playing the grumpy old man, turn off your radio and go on finding good music that's right here, it's not like you have the goddamn internet to find it... PS : Clout chasing dummies are not a new phenomenon, if you only remember the good music from your time, it's because you forgot about the kilotons of bad, uninspired and yet popular garbage that was all too common then, just as it is today.

[@cooldebt]

This is probably why I enjoy Australian jazz band The Consouls so much. They livestream every month (Request show from the studio in even months and live gig in odd months) and record their performances. The music lives and breathes because they have that live dynamic happening and when they upload, the music is not over-edited.

[@rando29287]

yes but resonances hurt le ears

[@DanMcCheese]

I’ve always said that I don’t like 90%+ of music released after 1983 or so because it’s too “clean-and-pristine”-sounding. I’m a big disco guy, but I don’t like any of, say, Dua Lipa’s stuff because of that aforementioned “perfectness”. It’s too sleek. It lacks that analog warmth that resonates with me.

[@nickpelkey]

Finally found a book that I want to read! Thanks for this!!

[@christianmartinez1]

Mr. Schnee is a total legend.

[@pangeaproxima3681]

ok, ok...

[@simonroyjonesuk]

Fascinating interview. Thanks very much. I wIll buy Bill's book now.

[@WinstonTexas829]

A thoughtful & articulate man.

[@stephenhall3515]

This man is very wise and does not seem to realize it. What he articulates here can be applied to so much in the modern world.

[@robc1961]

A place in the sun and world's away I wore those out on my turntable. I still enjoy the hell out of Pablo Cruise.

[@TheGarageRecordingSC]

Fantastic interview!! I really enjoyed it, thank you.

[@madkeysfilms]

But Roger Nicholls was the engineer on the Steely Dan records!!!

[@BrewerShettles]

Thank you for this wonderful video!!! Bill Schnee - amazing producer / engineer

[@voxxiigen7797]

This was very enlightening, but I didn’t really get what the “leave this alone “ part was referring to. I was going to assume ‘scooped out mids ftw, but that’s just me. Anyway thanks, I really appreciated this guy’s perspective!

[@WalterDiamond]

Lots of comments just like this, so I'll answer this one. I found it quite clear in the section where he uses a house painter as a metaphor. The painter knows that one wall is perfect, another room needs paint, and another room needs new drywall and base coat and paint. So the "trick" he's referring to is knowing when to, as he says, "leave well enough alone". The thumbnail is a good illustration of this philosophy. Stop twiddling every knob and slider and leave well enough alone. Solid advice, IMO.

[@KRhyder-p5m]

As a live sound engineer, I always said the same thing to artists I was working for. This is YOUR show. My job is to make sure it goes and sound the way you want. I am a servant to the music. First and foremost. Worked as an independent for 30 years. Appreciate this immensely.

[@TyFord]

In a much lower orbit, I have the same responses. My audio life began with a Japanese reel-to-reel using 3" reels. I was twelve. This year I'm 76. Because of my penchant for detail, I would ask that you amend the title of this video to include his name, Bill Schnee. I think he deserves to be known for more than "Steely Dan's engineer." Thanks. I enjoyed it.

[@charliemcgrain]

Legend, many thanks. Totally agree, it is all about the notes. I play guitar and famously guitar players spend all day twiddling with their guitar tone. When was the last time you listened to the guitar tone on the intro to Brown Sugar or You really Got me Now? The tone is utter shite BUT, it has got tons of attitude and verve, I call it the Juice. It is all about the juice. Never go thinking if you only had another piece of gear you might be doing better. Sgt. Peppers was recorded on 2 four track machines. If you cannot do it with 8 tracks then you need to think again. I am talking to myself here, I am utter shite to this day!, but I am trying, and listening to the greats looking for clues. Channels like this are gold dust to me. Thanks again.

[@drothberg3]

I agree and disagree. Keith Richards always got great tone, but he didn’t spend a lot of time with plugins and crazy signal chains to get it. I read an interview with him in which he said something like, give me any guitar and amp and 5 minutes and I’ll get it to sound the same as I always sound. I agree that attitude and verve are key, and that the Stones were masters at that.

[@VerissimusAurelius]

Bernard Purdie was on the Aja record....Bill could have discussed him for the entire show...or many other single players on AJa it was a MAGNIFICENT MONSTER.

[@morbidmanmusic]

A few drummers were on it. AJA was gadd

[@Sam_splatter]

The most fun I’ve had recording was on a tascam 4 track tape machine. It will definitely free your mind from the computer side of things.

[@GDawg2K2]

As an engineer of Bills era, and a huge fan of AJA in real time. One question I have been dying to ask him for 40yrs. What happened on Deacon Blues. It's the only track on AJA that sounds like it was recorded in a different studio. The drums are devoid of highs, ambiance, and spread. Compared to Black Cow and AJA it's an amazingly poor recording. Love to get an answer.

[@billschnee8219]

Actually DB was re-recorded, I think by Roger.

[@mikesage9544]

This is, in my opinion, gold. I love Walter & Donald. As well as the Beach Boys. Music interests me so much I took a diploma in studio engineering. And got it. Loved your questions David. The answers to which will probably result in me buying the book. I have just subscribed too. Many thanks. Mike.

[@johanlovstedt832]

I realtid felt lost and unhappy, drowning in all tweaks and possible detail work that comes with a DAW, more than often getting lost in the fine details. The fun of recording for me really came back once I bought and learned the basics of a 4-track cassette recorder, both because of the direct limitations of the workflow, as well as the haptic experience of working with physical gear.

[@jofontaine217]

That's the direction I take right now. For the same reason 👍

[@morbidmanmusic]

As someone who did decades on tape.. the daw problem is you. It is easy to use the dAw like a tape machine. You don't have to tweak. Set limits. It's on you. Tools are tools.

[@dadnelson4008]

In gonna start recording our album soon , I'm ol school ,making ol school country,it's my computer,a mixer, good mics, being creative on getting the sound I want and a great band, for me it's as simple as that ..the rest will take care of itself, trust your ears, I always think of 2 EVH quoets I heard as a kid " if it sounds good to you,it's good " the other is " there's only 12 notes, it's up to you what you do with em"

[@onusgumboot5565]

"It's not about reality". Of course not. It's just a sonic illusion. That's what the Legendary little Jacky Vapors always said.

[@tabbycat8511]

Thank you for telling me Bill has s book out. Ordered with one click soon as it was mentioned.

[@tylerthompson1842]

You can always tell a music man that moonlights in home repairs when they come up with analogies like that lol my kinda guy

[@keithdunwoody1302]

Ha, that' screen shot of that now ancient AIR soft synth. Still a great synth actually. This interview is great, btw. Thanks! Bill's spot on about modern day tech getting in the way of creating, i.e. writing GOOD music.

[@keithdunwoody1302]

Indeed. Thought the same. A classic. That shot brought a chuckle.

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

So what is the _"leave this alone"_ in the thumbnail? 😠

[@globaldegenerates]

He explains it at 05:18

[@Cre8tvMG]

I’ve been engineering live and studio since the late 1970s. My most valuable tools are my ears and heart. Make them both happy and ignore the tech overload. As for tweaking the sound, the most important tool is the A/B switch, to instantly compare. Our ears forget eq in seconds. You have to pop back and forth and choose what’s best to you. If you love it someone else will too.

[@djefferson5669]

Bill totally looks like he could be the father of Simone and Amedeo Pace, the twin brothers from the band Blonde Redhead.

[@mileyondrumz]

Steely Dan albums changed my life. Steeped in em since birth. Jeff, Steve, Bernard, Rick, Jim etc (oh and modern Dan, Keith!). Great interview. Thanks.

[@mikj48]

This made it seem like he was the only engineer but when I looked up aja there were three engineers and the one that was on most of the records was Roger Nichols, leaving me to believe he may have been the main engineer? Does anyone know what each engineer might have done, did they split songs? instruments? thanks!

[@bruceinoz8002]

An old adage in the more aware "Hi-Fi / audiophile" crowd is: "You are supposed to listen to the music, NOT the "gear". Once the sound waves hit the microphone diaphragm, EVERYTHING downstream is an ARTIFACT. Listening with your EARS, not your eyes, is a good technique. And do not have long, late-night mix-down sessions. Ear and brain "fade" will strike. Your brain will be "filling the gaps" for you. Regret and horror, "the morning / afternoon after", will be your constant companion.

[@sirsuse]

I had the same muting issue on an SX-950. Spent too much time on it. Replaced a lot of parts in the muting circuit before giving up replacing the tuner board. It wad a chance the client was willing to take. It really bothered them. We got lucky and the used board worked.

[@MegaRlambert]

Personally I treat “in the box” no differently than a different method of ingesting or “printing” the tracks, I don’t attempt anything but gain staging relative level and editing. The rest I do as a hybrid session in post, which is very similar to the way things always were. I personally came from a background where I was a FOH engineer for 35 years, which is exactly the way he learned! I obtain mix balance and deal with relative recording levels, however I then listen to the raw tracks and start building my sonic stage for my two track bounce and final mixdown.

[@wlbrobinson]

Anyone Involved with Aja was a great talent and deserves to be listened to very closely. Great interview. I had just purchased a Crown amp/preamp and Altec model 15 speakers when I bought the album mid 70's, what an experience to hear the tech and artistry combined. Over 40 years later it still ranks at the top of all time best recordings. I feel sad for this generation and their music, not a Rap fan at all but Tupac was an amazing complex talent but haven't heard much new worth listening to since.

[@jgunther3398]

aja was one of the select few lps making the audiophile rounds at that time. i remember listening to it with hafler and modified stereo-70s through Quad '57s. and other gear at various audiophiles homes. grover washington was another i remember, maybe same engineer :)