I Don't See The Point In Private Schooling If My Daughter Wants To Be An Art Major r/Relationships

[@xlr8436]

“Anything but STEM is a waste of time” *proceeds to go watch a movie, listen to music and go on KZbin to relax*

[@PhoenixInFirestadium]

So many people don't want to pay for movies, music and games because it's just a hobby to them. It isn't worth anything to them. They don't see the time and work put into it and can't even imagine it being HARD work. The ignorance is real. "It can't be THAT hard." They'd drown trying to achieve what pros in this fields do. Guy is surely one of those. I was a programmer and heard a lot of those reasons. I actually burned out doing that job and left it.

[@ProxiProtogen]

Tbf. You don't need to go to college to make good music or make KZbin videos lol

[@bakedandbeaded]

@@ProxiProtogenIt’s the fact they think anything art wise is a “waste of time” but then they indulge in things that wouldn’t be possible without art.

[@zarahfrancisco3734]

story 1: I was in the same situation as daughter. You know what happened? I ended up taking courses that I hate and wasting years of my life and my parents money, Got low income jobs that I keep resigning a couple of months in. I was pretty much a loss cause and going nowhere. Eventually, my parents gave up and sent me to art school. Many years later, I'm still working in my dream job, working less and earning significantly more than the average person in my country. God! I wish people would just stop looking down on arts and artistic people.

[@GrumpyOldFart2]

Well, it IS pretty useless. All us non-artistic folks have to do is stop going to movies, not go to ANY museums because…what’s there? Nothing! Don’t watch animation, stop playing video games, stop reading (because literature is considered Fine Arts), don’t watch ANYTHING fashion related, hell don’t WEAR anything fashion related except the absolute basics, WE CAN ALL WALK AROUND NAKED AND BE ILLLITERATE!! WOOHOO!!! EDIT: OMG…. I CAN’T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT MUSIC BECAUSE THAT IS FINE ARTS ALSO. SO….. naked, illiterate, AND NO MUSIC. Thank you for coming to my TED talk!

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

She’s 13 and they’re acting like she’s set in stone. Do know how many kids who were in the gifted program and are average joes today? You have to give children the same opportunities and not play favourites.

[@maurer3d]

This so much, at 13 I had like 8 career paths I was considering. I didn't end up doing any of those.

[@samanthaw3845]

Not to mention that schools with actually interesting programs can foster interest in subjects that a normal public school with fewer resources and fewer programs - like you said, she’s 13, she might develop a liking for something OP doesn’t consider “low-merit” (which, super gross) if given the same opportunities afforded to her sister. Hell, I was a STEM kid who went to an Ivy. At 30, the actual things that have helped me the most in my career are: 1) the writing ability I developed in my humanities classes, and 2) the quick thinking and decisiveness I developed volunteering as a paramedic. (And probably networking haha.)

[@Scarlett.Granger]

Bruh when i was 13 i was a lazy little crap and was somewhat average because i just couldn't be bothered. I did great in all final years, finals, sat, university and all that stuff. Kids change. It's not like excelling in School is a guarantee for excellence in college or vice versa.

[@Lillith.]

I was "gifted" and dropped out of college just before graduation because I couldn't deal with the stress and my depression any longer and got a good, low stress job that allows me to pay the bills, save, and do fun stuff. I wish someone told me this was an option when I was younger.

[@CircusoftheMoon]

Also not being good at something as a kid doesn’t mean anything as an adult. I wasn’t good at chemistry in high school, but guess what my career is in? lol

[@Marstic666]

"Art is just a hobby" Medical illustrator, biomedical engineer, museum directors, animation, advertising, virtual reality, interior design, architect, engineering, clothing design, furniture design, car design, landscaping.. "We buy her art supplies" translates to "we buy her those cheap art bulk supply boxes from Walmart or Crayola colored pencils"

[@Pastel_Dreams]

So true 😅😂

[@Scarlett.Granger]

Lol imagine the art kid becomes a moderately famous artist and earns more than the ivy league stem kid and probably neither are talking to him anymore cause he's an ahole. OP would probably have a stroke and it'd be his own doing lol

[@AmitielAOT]

Graphic design and web design also.

[@vanguardangel6912]

As someone who almost gave up on her art; I just wanna say I fucking appreciate you so much.

[@sachxtrem]

"Medical illustrator" lol "biomedical engineer," lol "virtual reality" lol " engineering" lol "landscaping" lol Cmon, stop reaching.

[@PlasticBluVentRabbit]

2024 and we’re still having the “arts vs education” thing like art teachers don’t exist

[@Scarlett.Granger]

Bruh, i mean people make a living as freaking REACTION KZbinRS or doing tiktok dances. There are dozens of careers in art, design, and an abundance of related fields. People act like the joice is still between farmer, fisher and blacksmith.

[@trillionbones89]

I recommend not using *subject A* teachers as a career path for subject A. One teacher will teach hundreds of students over their lifetime. Art has plenty of very diverse career paths to go for. They might not be as streamlined as e.g. engineering, but you will find something if you are looking and networking hard enough.

[@Lillith.]

I mixed arts with stem because you don't have to choose with so many things out there that don't neatly fit in one clearly defined box.

[@reneeboone9730]

There weren't art teachers at my school. Plus I know someone that majored in art, went to a private school and now works at drumroll STARBUCKS. We all use to listen to her complain about why life isn't fair. Girl bye, you were dead set on being an art major when we tried to get her to have a double major but claimed she could do so much with her degree. She was proven wrong 😂

[@skyelindsey687]

Or tattoo artists.

[@TheVeggiekat]

I was the artistic kid who loved drawing and writing stories. My parents were very much against me pursuing an art career. I listened to them and can say I have been miserable every day of work and have occasionally prayed I’d get T-boned on my way to work just so I wouldn’t have to go in.

[@mindoablues]

Please consider dipping your toes back into your interests. Screw anyone that is unsupportive. You need to focus on what makes you happy and fulfilled. I'm not trying to downplay what you're going through either as I've felt that way too. Best wishes!

[@Zaddy-Lu]

Oh honey, that is a truly awful way to feel. I hope you are able to find a path back into art & storytelling. It is viable & worthwhile, and I'm so sorry your parents suck donkey balls. I'm sure you're great at it. Please do take care. From a random mom on the internet 💜

[@aubreymorgan9763]

Ouch I feel this in my soul

[@petitmains]

Hey Veggiekat - as someone who weirdly had an opposite experience (I come from a family of musical and artistic people who thought me chasing bugs around was weird and when I failed to sing like a professional the first lesson I was yanked out. I ended up with a theater degree the first time (which I don't regret I found the spot for kids who like logistics) And I went back for the biology degree I wanted to get the first time. Now I'm 10 years in after swapping in my late 20's. And I'm so happy. Whatever your medium of art is - take some time today and find one thing that would help you get in again - an affordable tablet, a heavy weight sketch books fresh water colors, a pile of old magazines for collage...whatever it is *get it* and...play! I wish you nothing but joy and a way back to your passion and happiness.

[@SingingMermaid4]

Story 1: Also, if the artistic daughter wanted to use art in a different way, she could work in museums in art restoration or teach art classes in a school/college setting. She would have a steady income and still able to pursue her own art as well. Art is really misunderstood as not viable professionally, but there are MANY options to still hone your craft as your hobby AND make a living wage.

[@Pastel_Dreams]

Thank you for pointing that out. Being an artist/creative doesn't mean you're gonna be trying to get your work into private galleries or high-profile institutions. Drawing & sculpting are vital skills & are applicable to a majority of job fields, mainly the entertainment arts.

[@SingingMermaid4]

@@Pastel_Dreams Yep! People like OP forget how common art is, especially within work. And not every artist wants to be in a gallery either. The daughter may love illustration for books, or want to work in digital art for advertising!

[@Pastel_Dreams]

@@SingingMermaid4 That's the thing though. When most people hear art/artist, they either assume Gallery Artist or Big Corporation Animator. There's no in-between in their perspective. I was the same way until I started taking classes focusing on my major.

[@SingingMermaid4]

@@Pastel_Dreams Oh I know. When you tell people you want to pursue art they think you want to be Andy Warhol, when you might not want to lol

[@ComaLies225]

I just wanna add that she can still get a “normal job” with an art degree as well. Many places don’t care so long as you just have an associates or bachelors and I say this from experience having an art degree and working in a non art related office job. Honing other work related skills does help though.

[@AWildJirachi]

So it’s okay to send the STEM daughter to do something that she’s already doing well in at home, but it’s not okay to send the arts daughter to do the same? Yikes

[@xelectrix]

Exactly my thoughts when I heard OPs comment. What an AH smh

[@willowwatson4130]

I noticed that as well, they don't want to send her to private school for arts because she's already good at that, but they also don't want to send her for STEM because she's not good at that... Sounds like she can't win either way

[@blackrex828]

​@@xelectrixSAME

[@jcgw2]

Art is not a profitable investment. You don't need school for art. Like you do for engineering or finance?

[@blackrex828]

@@jcgw2 just like stem courses you get to go to places and meet people in your filled that can help you later. It's just like college because most of it is to network and shake hands with people that can open doors for you.

[@mindoablues]

When I excitedly expressed that I was wanting to eventually open up a small dance studio, my parents spent the next hour basically belittling my idea. This was at dinner in a restaurant. I sat there the whole time trying (and failing) to not cry while my dad told me everything they had done for/spent on me would be a waste if I carried forward with it. I had already understood the difficulties and realities that it would take. I just wanted them to be supportive. Any time I talked about dance afterwards, they would change the subject or ignore me. So I stopped talking about it with them and never invited them to any performances. I've learned to keep them at arm's length when it comes to making decisions about my career and interests. This dad is such an AH. You don't need to understand or like something that is meaningful to another to be supportive. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up pushing away his family members over time with his attitude.

[@absintheminded203]

S1: Notice how OP equates pursuing a STEM program with being "hard working" and "ambitious" yet when it comes to art, it's "slacking" and "not worth the investment". Can't wait for OP's next Reddit post ten years down the road "Why won't my daughter speak to me?!"

[@mindoablues]

He should take an art class and see how much effort goes into producing a single piece. It takes real skill and dedication to be good at art. Having great teachers can make such a huge difference. The daughter doesn't know what she doesn't know. Just because she has an aptitude for art doesn't mean she knows all of the fundamentals that could elevate her work from amateur to professional.

[@WoodlandT]

Op 1 is such a judgmental A-hole. I’m an artist who went to an excellent private high school. That schooling gave me an incredible foundation that I still benefit from almost 30 years later. It helped me do well in undergraduate and it definitely helped me get into a top 3 MFA graduate program. Aside from his total bias & misunderstanding about the value of art and people talented in creative fields, he’s doing damage to both daughters by ranking their abilities against each other. In the end, he’s the one who’s going to lose

[@Scarlett.Granger]

People still belittling arts like it's 1300 and you can be a farmer or a blacksmith are literally insane like there aren't people out there who make their living of tiktok. It's insane to act like there aren't millions of art jobs even tho not everyones gonna be Banksy or Picasso. Crazy.

[@aduckofsomesort]

⁠@@Scarlett.Granger not to mention, farming actually requires a lot of education. The various agricultural industries of modern times are cutthroat, as are various fields of art. People like 0P really be acting like they’re living in times they’ve never even been alive in.

[@Scarlett.Granger]

@@aduckofsomesort i mean art sure is cutthroat. But so is academia tbh. And as there are more stem fields, not just academics, there are more art fields and lots of jobs and specialized fields out there. I'm pretty sure even NASA has some artists included in projects like the hubble telescope picture colouration and stuff. It's not like we're living in times where there are three different jobs and you do what your father did before you and his father did before him.

[@comicadubber1027]

First story hits home for me. I am the artistic daughter and OP is my father. I’ve wanted to go into animation for YEARS! My dad doesn’t see the worth in art or animation. I have to tell him I’m going into a different degree in order to get his support. I have to LIE to get his support. OP is ruining his relationship with his children by not supporting them. I want to hug both daughters and tell them not to give up on whatever they want to do in their lives. We all deserve support no matter what we decide to do in our lives, and if it backfires we deserve to have support from our families to push forward. I’m not going to predict the future of this situation but I don’t have a good feeling about this.

[@ebbss4]

So question, did you even go to school to study animation?

[@TheVeggiekat]

Follow your dream. I’m that kid that listened to my parents. They’re very proud of me or at least they said they were last time we spoke. I went no contact. Two suicide attempts and years of being absolutely miserable every day and I finally realized I can pretend to be that kid they wanted but I never will be. Best I can do is be me and be happy with that.

[@GLoLChibs]

Real talk, the best thing my mother ever did for me was convince me to put another occupation ahead of art while supporting my artistic endeavors. For one, I quickly found art was not a passion I could turn into a job that was on someone else's schedule and bringing only someone else's vision to life. And second, I wound up with a lot of health problems, one of them is frequent hand tremors. I would not have been able to keep making a living in the A&E industry. I can with my primary degree.

[@sksunshine4860]

This parent is prioritizing the golden child while dismissing the artist. My brother has three kids, all with different areas they have excelled in, but they put all three kids through the same private school because they wanted them to have that education. None of them decided to go on to higher education, one has gone into an admin position, another is a team lead doing construction and the other is working in a office but has a side Etsy shop with her variety of artistic passions. All very different fields but all of them were given the same opportunities. It's not just how he treats Sarah but also the expectation that he's putting on Abby, either way he's a massive AH. I feel sorry for all of the females in this overbearing man's life.

[@colleens1107]

My god, the comments by OP shows he has not the SLIGHTEST respect for his daughter’s artistic ability… and OMG A HOBBY. Would he say that to Davinci, Picasso, or Georgia Okeefe? Would he say that to Michaelangelo as he painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? All he is doing is making this poor girl think he is not at all proud of her greatest talent and passion and that must feel awful for her

[@MrJpaynebb]

OP really is being shortsighted here. I understand he knows it's harder to make it as an artist than many other professions but she's 13 not 23 or 33! Teenagers aren't set in stone and often change their interests. He should treat it like she's in sports. If she was very good in volleyball, basketball, tennis or swimming OP would encourage it most likely. Not as a career path which is possibility but just for educational reasons aka college scholarships. Still stress STEM work but encourage her art skills because schools will look at many things when sending offer letters and scholarships out.

[@havicmaking]

You know the funny thing about the artists just mentioned is that they all died poor. I’m not saying the Dad isn’t an AH I’m saying going to school for art in this economy is stupid.

[@lauragarza7585]

It also just shows how uncultured he is where he thinks artist and thinks living in a studio apartment with five roommates and not thinking of all of the other careers that are art based. Also, yeah, I laughed when he said guaranteed a spot in the ivys and I was like unless your families gone there since the beginning you’re not guaranteed a spot

[@Scarlett.Granger]

He'd probably say that to them, because they all died poor, did they not? But he needs to realise that there are art jobs and art adjacent jobs that have very similar chances to earning a good living as a stem career does. You don't have to be a big name million dollar paintings artist to do _something_ with art. And it's not like stem totally guarantees 100% high paying careers either. The main issue is that OP respects neither of his children as people that'll turn into adults, but sees them like objects that need to have their place and be put to good use.

[@Scarlett.Granger]

​@@havicmaking thats really not true tho. Going to school with the singular plan and goal to be the next picasso or whatever is stupid. But there are lots of jobs in art-related fields. Designers are artists. Car design, furniture, clothes, ... Advertising is artistic. Restaurators are artists. Hell, even NASA emplores some people with art degrees that are involved with the colouring of the space telescope pics or stuff like that. There are loads of art jobs where you can find a profitable career. There are equally some stem jobs that just don't shine bright in the career heavens, however more secure stem as a whole may be. There are no guarantees, really.

[@kali3731]

I majored in „art“ well design and have a masters degree and currently im teaching ux design, working on my own business and in a very established agency… OPs daughter could have many lucrative oppurtunities with art or design!

[@Girl-Supersonicboy]

S1 sounds like my father. I used to love doing arts and crafts as a kid; family always said I was good at it too. Well, my dad thought art was useless. I remember vividly my dad standing over me and screaming "ART WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE GIRL! ITS POINTLESS AND STUPID!". I was working on an art assignment as he was doing this, and he wanted me to focus more on my other academics. I didn't dare look up at him, as tears fell down my cheeks, because little kid me was too scared to accept "his" truth. After that day, the artistic side of me died, and I never fully healed from that. I still do art and crafts, but the passion is gone, and left in its place is a voice telling me this is stupid. I'm still struggling to ignore that voice to this day, and I'm going to be 29 this year... Parents I beg you to realize your words, actions, and decisions have an affect on your children. Once you scar them, there's no going back; a band-aid won't fix it.

[@redonyx5428]

it's never too late to pursue your passions! im getting back into drawing after having stopped it for almost 20 years. i had a really shitty art teacher in hs that just about killed it. i ended up switching industries and im slowly getting back into it as i have a lot of time on my hands these days. it's hard but you just have to ignore that mans voice. you'll find that passion again!

[@benjie128]

In 10 years, the 1st OP will be like "why does my 2nd daughter never come around anymore?" he's literally showing his kids art is worthless, and the only thing that matters is what he deems important. There may be a specific thing at the school the daughter is looking at, like the teacher, or materials. Plus, it creates a rift where one daughter has the acceptable outlook and gets special treatment, and meh stick the 2nd in public its good enough.

[@shadowkissed2370]

He is showing his second kid that she is not important.

[@williamxavier300]

I disagree, i mean he is the ahole, but if i was a parent i wouldnt pay for college for a art school education, or for an u decided track, i dont believe higher education is necessary, and is only usefull under certain circumstances. Now does this logic apply to highschool track??? Idk, i do think it makes more sense in supporting his daughters art asperations at her current age but idk if its enough to justify thousands in art school. He can spend that money on vacations and family time. But he is an asshole for treating one daughters focus as a hobby and one as a career oriented when they are so young realisticallytheir careeer paths arent set. All the comments are projwcting, their is love beyond funding an education.

[@757Bricksquad]

I agree with the dad. Why waste money on something so fruitless.

[@benjie128]

@@757Bricksquad because ultimately what he's telling his second daughter is her interests are worthless. While art may not be a reliable, there are still plenty of avenues she could go. With a varied art program, she could explore and find a means of maintaining a creative aspect in a job. And the underlying message is the second daughter isn't good enough so no need to waste money on her. And that's the message that will stick. Her sister gets the premium education, while she gets whatever is left because she's not worth spending money on. What's next? First daughter gets privilege and rewarded for her good grades. And the second daughter becomes a footnote of just wasted expenses. The private school offers experiences and opportunities. She could expand beyond her current capibilies with the resources a private education can fund. Whereas public schools are underfunded and might not even be able to offer more than basic art. That's not allowing her to grow. She could very well stagnate. The dad talks about how it's just a home hobby, disparages that shes not acedemically inclined like her sister. He puts down his second daughter's interests while promoting the first daughter. I used to draw a lot as a kid. Until 5th grade. Everytime my teacher caught me drawing (I figured out later, drawing was a fidget method that actually helps me concentrate) I received an hour long after school detention. By the end of 5th grade, I stopped drawing. And started doing poorly in school in subsequent years. And in case there is more evidence. In nearly every high school graduation I've been to, the top 10 kids are all in fine arts programs. It's like art inspires the brain.

[@HeoBaby24]

​​​@@williamxavier300but you can make a career in art tho? why wouldn't you want to pay thousands to help your child succeed? your acting like art isn't a successful career? it an art program in a private school the school wouldn't offer that for no reason. your basically saying it's okay to treat both daughters and focus on one daughter who's "thriving to succeed" like you forgot about magas,cartoons, graphic designer,video games designers, like there's a whole lot of shit thay news flags need artists.

[@Lestaticate]

Story 1: … Oh God, who else was picturing OP as Robert “Big Bob” Pataki? Literally having sad Olga and Helga imagery here. Story 2: Lol, I’ve been in K’s position growing up. Hell, I’ve finally figured out my label as an adult, like many during lockdown. Labels will change over time as you learn about yourself! (Whether or not you chose to have one at all)

[@Pastel_Dreams]

Lol 😂

[@Ace_AloneWolf]

Story one reminds me of that guy whose entire family ended up leaving him because he was a financial bully.

[@Zaddy-Lu]

I'm a lesbian. I was in a relationship for a year with a woman who was straight but had developed feelings for me. She was super confused by it & was up front with me. After a year she told me she was going back to being straight. That was the only amicable break-up I've ever had. I've had 2 lesbian girlfriends who had fallen in love with a man once, but it didn't work out because they were gay. Human attraction, both romantically and s*xually is complicated & a spectrum. Hopefully at some point in the future people won't need to put themselves into boxes anymore

[@jimbobjones9330]

As a person who's a software engineer, f*** the "dad" in that first story. My abilities in art make me a far better software engineer because I can see around corners that other engineers may not be able to. I know plenty of people who've transitioned from artistic fields into STEM fields with little problem, because it's easy to learn things like programming and technology -- far harder to learn creativity. My two daughters are good at different things -- we support the hell out of both of them, and always will. I couldn't imagine basing my support on some idea of how much money they'll make in the future. Am I happy I went into software? From a financial perspective, sure (mostly because I grew up poor, and wanted to make sure my kids never had to deal with that). From my desire to solve problems? Absolutely. Do I sometimes wish I went to art school instead and focused on art and writing to see where that path would have taken me? Absolutely.

[@jspace20]

literally, I'm studying engineering rn myself and one of the first classes I took emphasis how important it is for engineers to be able to draw. I find it so ridiculous because there's so many careers art is useful in. like if she was interested in architecture, she would be amazing at that AND it would be art AND stem

[@jimbobjones9330]

@@jspace20 I have a friend who went to art school for her undergrad, and took their masters in architecture a few years later. I work in biotech on various projects where understanding image manipulation (as in "in a tool like Photoshop") is vastly important. Granted, it's more understanding color and image algorithms than specifically how to draw, but it's still needed.

[@tfrtrouble]

@@jimbobjones9330 I agree that dad is a total AH but honestly you are the other side of the same problem. Snobbily dismissing scientists as just calculating machines with no original thoughts is as bad as snobbily dismissing artists as less intelligent dreamers. Not all STEM knowledge is quick and easy to pick up and suggesting it is is an insult to the scientists who spend years training their expertise; that's like saying "I just saw some modern art that looked like a scribble so any idiot can become a professional artist". Artists and scientists are equally important to society. It's bad to dismiss artists as less important than scientists but it's just as bad to dismiss scientists as less valuable because you think science is trivial to learn and creativity is the sole domain of artists. Some science takes years of focused study to master and anyway you cannot become a top scientist without a really creative mind.

[@tfrtrouble]

@@jimbobjones9330 Btw, my job involves commissioning freelance science illustrators and some of them who started from the art side have not "transitioned from artistic fields into STEM fields" as easily as they think. I generally prefer scientific illustrators who started as scientists and then trained in design than artists who think they've moved into STEM without any formal study, because with the latter, I waste so much time asking for revisions to correct basic scientific inaccuracies. Creativity is of course essential, but good scientists are highly creative people and many have art and design experience/training due to personal interest. I'll say again: I think artists are hugely valuable to society, and anyone dismissing them as lesser is an idiot. However, going the other way and trying to make out that scientific expertise is trivial and unimportant is not the way. That way lie antivaxxers and flat earthers.

[@jimbobjones9330]

@@tfrtrouble Fair. Perhaps saying "easy" was the wrong word choice. Sure, it can be hard to learn STEM topics -- I'm a software engineer currently in a meeting about Genes having very little clue what people are talking about -- but they _can_ be learned. If I studied enough, I could understand. You can't easily "learn" creativity... it's something you have or don't have. You can learn art techniques and things like that, but you can't really learn to be creative. I learned to play the guitar a couple years ago, but being really talented at it and writing music are outside of my ability, despite being a very creative person in many other respects. Hell -- I'm a good singer, but instruments just seem to be a no-go for me.

[@Listrynne]

A family friend's daughter came out as solidly lesbian as a teen. When she was ~22 she came home once day and said "apparently I'm bi" and introduced her boyfriend. They got married and had a son fairly quickly. Unfortunately the husband had a really bad night and ended his life a couple months ago so she's a widow at 24 with a 1 yo boy.😢

[@rachaeldumas7432]

That last hat had me absolutely hysterical with laughter!! Story 1-justice for Sarah!! Story 2-wholesome af!! Congratulations on 100k subs Markee!

[@chelseasalmonstiles9471]

Maybe it should have been made clear for years that schooling at the private school is dependent on grades so both girls would know to work hard to reach a goal

[@misslauren6798]

THIS!

[@jimmieloop8587]

Yeah i love how everyone jumped down OPs throat as if he judge her "value" when he just commented on her character. You can have a suck character or laxidascal attitude but still be very much loved. If the youngest wont put in the effort to earn scholarship or stay in goodstanding with the school, then there should be cause and effect.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

That second story is so sweet that it gave me a diabetic attack.

[@lunarheartz2133]

I guess as an artist myself that went to art school I’m super jaded, you can 100% succeed as an artist without art school. In reality it honest is such a waste of money and leaves you in so much debt…

[@littlepeeper9223]

Art is very underrated in opinion. There are many who make a lot of money from their art.

[@chickinskinz]

My boi talking about his daughter like he’s buying a new car.

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1: My sister was academically gifted, and I was creative. One of my earliest memories is of my mom bragging on the phone how my sister made “straight a’s,” so little me drew my most perfect letter A and said, “look mommy, I can make straight A’s too!” Can confirm, it fucked both me and my sister up. I never went to college because mom literally told me I wasn’t smart enough to make it (“unlike sister.” Yes, she said those words). Meanwhile sister feels incredibly anxious to be perfect all the time. S2: This could be me and my best friend lol. We were friends and had a ton of stuff in common for years, but were both in other relationships. Those relationships eventually fell apart, and I realized I was falling for my best friend. I was worried about saying anything because I didn't want to make things awkward and mess up the best friendship I'd ever had. Luckily for me, he was feeling the same way! We've been together 18 years, married with three kids, and life is amazing!

[@aubreymorgan9763]

Feel this. I didn’t have a sibling to be compared to, but mom found a way to make me never feel smart enough just the same. I was never academically inclined (cheers for childhood depression and anxiety that was diagnosed and never treated) but I was extremely artistic. No one had confidence in me and college, even myself, my attempts were even sabotaged early on. I’m in my 40s and just now taking courses as I can afford them

[@KE-hr4sb]

@@aubreymorgan9763 I'm so sorry you went through that. Hugs from an internet stranger.

[@AquaMarin-ww3qx]

One of my best friends is a professional musician who loves his job but who struggles a lot financially. He always states that he wished people would have been more direct, honest and critical with him regarding the financial risks of an art career. He himself advises tha when aiming for an arts career young people need a special awareness for these risks and always, always consider a plan b or a 2nd education if things don‘t work out. And he himself would never ever advise to spend a fortune on an arts education if somebody is not that highly talented that it would qualify for scholarships. The girls are in highschool and it sounds like the OP is not „money doesn‘t matter“ rich but the family has to make sacrifices to pay for the older daughters school. It does absolutely make no sense to pay for the younger daughter for a private school if the public school has a good art program as well, that money might be better invested to provide her more options for a wider education/qualification after highschool.

[@fireknight0146]

Yeah, I mean art is good and all but it IS a harder and less desired career path than most STEM jobs. And if OP's genuine only goal is to set up their children for life on their own, I can totally see where he is coming from, just not how he is bringing it.

[@lilywong9672]

Maybe he's not that good. My friend is a musician and a music producer. Even worked on the Dr. Who remaster DVDs. He's making bank.

[@taylorlibby7642]

Have her go to a trade school first and learn a skill that will give her the money to pay for her own arts education.

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

But this an 8th grader. Writing them off already seems shortsighted. She might be big on art now but who knows how she’ll feel in a couple years. You gotta give them both the same basic starting opportunities.

[@taylorlibby7642]

@@lilywong9672 The point is more that the kind of jobs in those fields that pay you enough on their own to even barely support yourself are few and far between. Yes, skill and talent are a part of getting those jobs but luck and connections are a larger part. Ask any successful musician and they'll tell you that. There are absolute loads of very talented and gifted musicians who make their money with their day jobs. Heck, that's why they're called "day jobs".

[@LadyJoolree]

I know I'm probably hella late but congrats on the 100,000 subs 🎉 From Ireland and dance competitions to covid stranded, to back home, to the Bat Booth that's what I call it at least! Onward and upward 🥰

[@sersastark]

he missed the transition from STEM to STEAM, and im cackling over that.

[@chanaleahsteinberg2645]

It makes me laugh when people say arts can't get you a good job. So I guess animated shows, architecture, books, advertising ext shouldn't be jobs anymore.

[@kazzuo32]

I was one of this artists students with writing, photos and paintings. I wanted to be a photographer for sports and nature . My mom insisted that I study something that will find work no matter what. Well I did study international business and after I went for photography, guess what? After a couple of big jobs for a nature magazine i quit and Im using the degree that my mother insisted on. Following passions sometimes end in nothing. Let's op and daughter come to a happy middle.

[@Russman67]

The guy mentally chose STEM daughter over arts daughter. Everyone around him sees it. Reddit sees it. But OP's eyes are shut right here.

[@brandi5126]

S1: Many of my friends are professional artists since I went to an art school. Even the ones who don't do it full-time use it to make income as side hustles. There is nothing wrong with being a creative person.

[@MCWon212]

S1: Pops is not the AH. He isn't stopping her dream of pursuing art. Just didnt want to front the bill on a private art school, where there is a solid free one she could attend. Love how people commenting believe that one shouldn't consider ROI (parental investment - child's return) when nurturing their kid's Education path. Sadly Art is not a career path that generally yields successful career outcomes in the states. You can certainly point to outliers. Reality check: Median Art Major Grad Salary: 39K Bottom 20% : 23k Top Earners: 66k.

[@LadyJuse]

She's 13. A lot could change between now and then. Plus, what if going to the private school actually gets her interested in STEM courses, and she unlocks the path to a STEAM career? She might find passion for engineering! And the eldest might burnout and decide to become a banjo instructor

[@braidygal]

As a parent to 3 very different teens that excel in different ways. One is very academically gifted and has graduated with honors and an associates degree. The other 2 are in high school, one all APs, mostly As and an athlete. The other one did 2 AP classes, but struggled, got mostly A and Bs and probably won’t do any APs next year to help with the workload. He is an artistic student that loves to dance. All 3 of my kids are amazing in their own way and I understand I can’t expect the same type of success from them, but I do celebrate the successes they do accomplish no matter how minor in the eyes of most. I enjoy watching them enjoy life and figure things out. Not one of them is worth more than the other and not one will be considered more successful in my eyes.

[@Raaslen]

Story 2: I am pretty sure the parent's were like "finally" when they saw the picture

[@srideout91]

The first stories of rage bait story and the last story is a classic feel good story. The classic best friend who is gay has feelings for someone who is straight. It could practically write itself.

[@acatnamedm4529]

Story 1: father could also encourage his daughter to look into things like running a business, marketing, and public speaking to give her a leg up in the freelance world Story 2: she could be demisexual

[@ruddiko]

Aww Markee you are still a baby, worknon being your better self and you'll eventually find and make someone happy. You have actually had a lot of positive growth alone from what I can see from your comments in these stories. You'll be fine ❤💪

[@velvetmau]

Story 2 . "Cramming herself into a box that doesn't fit" 😂

[@photoflo78]

Markee ❤ you have all of us. You might be caged, but you have our love ❤️

[@MrsGump]

Hahahha Markee, LOVE the tinfoil hat 🤣 Also, u must be super stoked about hitting the 100k subs! Ive been here since the very beginning & you deserve it my dood, so congrats ❤

[@wyvern723]

My parents are like OP. My creativity were meaningless and STEM was what mattered. They did their best to squash it.

[@maurer3d]

Story 2: Your hesitant because you a a good guy, I would recommend not starting anything with her for at least a few months, while she figures out her orientation. If she is Bi that is great and being with her could be amazing, but if she isn't and these are just confused feelings, getting with her could destroy you both. I she is bi and you get together take things slow, so as not to overwhelm either of you to quickly. Story 2 (update 4): Time to stop calling her Lesbian, and just say girlfriend, or Bi Girlfriend.

[@actuallynotsteve]

What if this so called "art" was very good and did a thing called "making money"

[@19nmiller1]

I'm going to come at this from the STEM student POV - a degree in sciences is *not* the golden ticket that older generations think it is. I have a master's in a hard science and went to a good university, but my job prospects aren't great. I'm probably going to be making just as much as someone with an arts degree who has a solid job too.

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

There are schools in the city of Ivy League schools with guaranteed admission to the Ivy nearby. A friend of mine attended such a school on a scholarship and then Harvard. Her admission was directly from guaduating that private school.

[@Squiggy8440]

Im loving markee’s hats and avatar edits, they’re great comedy for me idk lmao😂

[@jonmendelson1104]

In the past there was a dude who wasn't allowed to go to art school and bad things happened.

[@catandrobbyflores]

Ah yes the big H

[@eph2vv89only1way]

All of the comments on the title post are accurate. And something that was missed is that there are plenty of paid jobs in arts. Design and decorating, acting, singing, behind the scenes work in entertainment, forensic work such as police artist and facial reconstruction, and plenty more

[@Lillith.]

It is really difficult to find out bisexuality is an option. The first crush I had was a boy when I was 12, the second was a girl when I was 15 and I was confused because I was aware of hetero and homosexual, but bisexual was left out for some reason. Luckily this identity crisis was during the late 00s, when everyone suddenly became bi curious. It was a strange time because I had a crush on a girl and suddenly bisexuality seemed to be everywhere. I've not always felt like bisexual still fit, but I'm still attracted to men and women, so it's now just shorthand for when a person wants to know who I would potentially be interested in.

[@HeoBaby24]

if it helps. some people who are bi tend to have attraction to one gender over the other. it's like if someone bi but they more into girls than guys or the other way around. not that they wouldn't date that gender but they're not THAT attracted to it

[@tauntingsableye9474]

People: art is dead in this generation. It's an absolute disaster. AI is taking over. Also people: i'm not going to fund your passion for art! Absolutely ridiculous!

[@hiro4344]

Ug, this. There are two kinds of people in the world, the "I don't understand you but I support you," and "I don't understand you, so you're irrelevant." I recently cut a person I thought was my best friend of many years off because the _one_ time I decided to make the conversation about me and vent about my difficulties I had been facing, she cut me off to tell me because she couldn't relate to what I was going through, that she wasn't the person to talk to(Her exact words). I wasn't even asking advice, I just wanted to be the one venting and getting support for a change because I couldn't relate to her either but I supported her anyway. What is it with people disregarding the things others are passionate about just because they don't have a personal interest in it?

[@soupisgood44]

The first story is so difficult. I'm a 30 year old professional artist who actually DID go to art school (it was a private college), and in my honest opinion... a degree in art is only MAYBE worth it if you have a lot of money. I was fortunate to go on a scholarship, but honestly my advice to people who don't have tens of thousands to drop on a "Bachelor in Fine Arts" degree... DON'T DO IT. You don't need an art degree to make an art career, depending on the field you want. On top of that, the majority of my classmates came from upper middle class/wealthy backgrounds. I went to a private accredited art college, and honestly anyone with money can get it, for the most part. These schools are just filled with rich kids who didn't know what they wanted to do with their life, but liked art. I graduated about 8 years ago... and I'm one of four people I know who actually still maintain an art career from my graduating class of over 400 people. My point is: 1). it IS possible to have an art career, but the likelihood to succeed as a successful and financially stable artist is below %10. and 2). don't go to art school if you don't have the money, as it's just not necessary

[@delilahbelle2125]

Yeah, I'm in this mindset too. They can invest and enroll their daughter in an extracurricular art program to grow her skills and send her to public school for her education, rather than spend tuition money on a private school that has a strong STEM program. The daughter may struggle in those subjects and the school may not be a good fit for her. Equal is not always equitable, and I just don't agree with Reddit on this one. However, I don't think OP is representing himself well here. He does come off as dismissive towards the daughter's interests and he does sound elitist.

[@MoncheriRous]

I think both of you are missing the point. I agree with no dropping money you don’t have on a degree. Not just art. With how expensive college is and the low wages, sometimes the title is not worth the money. But the point of this is that OP agreed to send his daughter to a private school, because he thought it will help her with her studies, and will not do the same with the other daughter. He is showing favoritism and valuing one daughter and not the other. He shouldn’t have agree to send one daughter if he wasn’t planning to send the other one. Period. He is dropping thousands for one daughter in private school and just a complete of hundreds on the other one for some materials to work at home.

[@VidGirl88]

Story one: let's cut to 15 years when Op is shocked that his daughters have cut him out of their lives. Even the golden one! Shocker.

[@secretskull21]

“Art is more of a hobby, not a job.” Tell that to every interior designer that makes every building you enter look good. Tell that to the artists that designed every single picture on every product you see everywhere you go. Tell that to everyone who designs a website, a company logo, creates books, movies, TV shows, songs, everything that makes life colorful and exciting. Tell them that their work is meaningless.

[@Raaslen]

Story 1: "I don't see art as a career" well, my sister is an art major, and man she is making bank.

[@piotrfagan9672]

Yeah it's really confusing to me that people don't think art is a lucrative thing to do. Like there are so many facets to get into. There are people that just think that you're either a gallery artist or you're starving, and then that's not it

[@Raaslen]

@@piotrfagan9672 Right? I mean, basically everithing that has a visual interface to it that is good on the eyes is the work of an artist

[@northeastoperations]

OP has bad spelling and accidentally sends daughter to a private fart school.

[@sarahkelly7825]

BTW congrats on the100K subs!!

[@coreymartin6486]

4 years of high tuition is a small price compared to damaging his relationship with both daughters forever.

[@gwenp3450]

I just love seeing all the different hats!

[@sapphicgeek24]

The first story is 5 years old and I find myself wondering how the younger daughter is doing all these years later. Looks like OP deleted a comment someone quoted about how the younger daughter told him how she felt. (2nd best, unloved, etc) The older overheard and sided with her sister.

[@HeoBaby24]

you know how bad you gotta be when your golden child doesn't fuck with your bs

[@terramarini6880]

It's STEAM now, they added arts to the STEM programs

[@donnamichelerichey2878]

Just curious, any of you know what art school Basquiat, Frida Kahlo, Van Gogh, Keth Haring, Bill Traylor and Grandma Moses went to?

[@omegasobsessions]

Some private schools have entrance tests, if second kid can pass that then she is “good enough” scholastically to go to the school.

[@TheSharona10]

Unpopular opinion coming. All emotion aside- he’s right.unless she’s a prodigy, an art degree won’t come anywhere close to yielding success than a stem degree. What he’s missing is that art-daughter will feel less than. It’s also hard to decide that at 13, and that a good education at that age can be a game changer for future success. Give her the better education and at least let them both start life at the same level, after that it’s up to them.

[@darkmask5933]

Story 2: Label trapping is very much a thing, and sadly a lot of members of the LG- community can get up in arms if you wanna 'switch' your label later on, like you're suddenly becoming "the enemy". K's girlfriend very likely sensed K was not completely lesbian but instead of being there and talking it over, she lashed out at whoever she assumed K was into (OP) and broke up. That also goes to show you the old stereotype of "lesbian romances are all so calm and supportive" is wrong and sometimes harmful. Always try and support your partner!

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

First story.NTA. What an AH. Can you guess who the golden child is. My daughter went to university and studied studio art concentrating on ceramics. Was I thrilled at first, no. But it is her life and her choice. After graduating in 2021.My daughter started a ceramics business and is doing very well for herself. She was able to buy a house, on her own, at 23. Story 2. Slapping a label on yourself doesn't always work. I came out as a lesbian when I was 13. For 8 years I only dated girl and never met a guy that I was interested in having a relationship with. That is until I met my mom's best friends youngest brother. I was very attracted to him and wanted to get to know each other. We quickly became best friends and spent a lot of time together. Finally one day I asked him why he never made a pass at me, and he said, "Well, I don't have the body parts you like." I laughed my butt off then kissed him. This was 31 years ago and he is still my best friend. I didn't marry my husband because he has a penis, I married him because he is my greatest love.

[@SiFireHasSpeed]

CONGRATS ON 100K

[@tfrtrouble]

I have the same conclusion (OP is a major AH) but a slightly different perspective on the first story. If one daughter is sailing through her academics and interested in subjects that will open more traditional career options, and the other daughter is struggling a bit academically and more interested in a field that is tough to break into, then daughter 2 is in far more need of the advantages private school can provide. Daughter 1 will get into a good university and then have plenty of career options anyway, even if she went to a normal school (like I did). Daughter 2 clearly needs extra help academically, which a private school can more easily provide. She is very young; her subject focus might change, but help to get her grades up is important regardless. And if she decides to pursue art as a career (which can be very tough), she is really going to need every boost she can get, whether it's a degree from a top art school, something like a business degree to help her grow her own business, or something like a graphic design course that could help her find a more stable job that still uses her arts skills.

[@gladygalvan8069]

Mind you she's only in 8th grade. So much can change in the next few years 🤦‍♀️ I wanted to be an artist when I was in 8th grade. I was pretty good. But now I'm in a comfortable corporate job that I love.

[@HeoBaby24]

yah and so is her sister. and her interest can also change. but he doesn't care as long

[@invisigoth510]

Story one: art restoration is a real job & it’s a double major: Fine Art & Chemistry

[@ajzephyros7454]

Fish who cannot climb a tree, huh haven’t heard that one before, it’s clever is it an Aussie thing?

[@alyzu4755]

Tell Connor to let you out of the booth so you can find someone to date! ☺️ Story 2 is very sweet. 🥰

[@namename2040]

Story 1 NTA Sending a child to a private school for art is a waste of money. There are many "artists" and many don't succeed. Paying for a private school will not increase her chances enough to warrant the waste of money

[@HeoBaby24]

buddy before i internally flame you just remember. your favorite movie,books, cartoons,amine, Manga, and video games. required the main thing that makes it what it is. ARTIST. there's so many jobs that requires artists compared to stem. and you thinking it's a waste of money just shows your ignorance

[@kittykatjones]

Rich people used to pay artists so they could just live and make art all day and now they don’t wanna pay for shit 😭

[@analisaacosta974]

Please cover the last story of there are more updates, it's so cute!

[@zombiezed4927]

A private art school would allow his artistic child to further develop her technical skills in art as well as be recognized by teachers for her art. That recognition is super important, it could help her get into art colleges in the future, and if she excells then it could secure her a job that she is passionate about. All that aside, OP is fricking awful for treating his daughters so differently and poorly, he will be beyond lucky if either of his daughters talk to him after they turn 18!

[@Scarlett.Granger]

Call me cynical, but we'll never get another update from the first op, cause it's very likely reality didn't turn out like his imagination and he probably just wrote the second update to paint himself as a good guy because "he's taking the advice (even tho he's right!) for his daughter blabla". Imagine he'd had to admit something like both kids have good careers and neither got into an ivy and both stopped talking to him. Lol.

[@mariedillingham199]

"Our youngest daughters talents aren't as valuable to us as her older sisters."

[@mariedillingham199]

As an artist, I can comfortably say that those connections made in those institutes will probably make or break any potential as a career. A lot of succeeding as an artist is knowing people. There are outliers, but this has been my experience so far.

[@franciebelcher4594]

S1. YTA. All of the YTA comments were exactly what I think. I wonder if OP and wifey can even change their behavior? I do want to add, to dear papa, art IS everywhere. Daughter is So young, and her talent can take her anywhere! Architecture for one, is the most obvious example. Here's hoping the parents improve🤞🧐

[@TissuDemon]

I am so glad neither of my dads nor my mom were horrible like the first storys OP

[@KadeStringer2.0]

Story 2 is the sweetest post I ever read

[@Center-For-I.E.D.Mismanagement]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[@Marstic666]

Honestly a more likely outcome for S1 is artistic daughter was pulled from private school due to "not taking advantage of the STEM resources" like OP demanded.

[@b.c.9358]

Dude i was terrible at math all the way until college, and now I'm an engineer. Op of story 1 is a fool.

[@luismakeup08]

20:19 this is soooo cute❤❤❤, i love it!!!

[@lostfoxerin2324]

Markie being super relatable lol😂

[@sachxtrem]

Alot of people in the comments full on coping lmao. "uhhh i know a guy whose an artist and hes SUPER successful uhhh" Ya ok buddy. For every successful artist, theres 1000 others living below the poverty line, or having to work other jobs. You can be a fantastic artist/musician but have zero exposure, connections, making your career incredibly difficult. Follow your dreams sure, but people pretending like theres no risk involved in pursuing a career in arts is ridiculous. Its anything but a safe bet. Its a diverse and varied field sure, but its incredibly competitive as well, and typically involves you being at the top of your game in every sense, networking included. "I wanna be an artist" sits in the same corner as "I wanna be a streamer/actor/musician". Its entirely doable. Its also not realistic for the vast majority of people.

[@muhname6052]

Story 1: So, instead of sending Sarah to a private school to have a backup op just sees the price tag. One that he can apparently afford. In 5 years: why doesn't my daughter talk to me? I paid for so much?

[@cesaravegah3787]

My mother was an art teacher...she was able to do it because my father earned enough to support the home and my grandparents left her a sizable inheritance, she always lost money with it, supplies were hideously expensive and classes and selling her pieces never earned nearly enough, "follow your dreams" must be balanced with "pay your bills", YTA for the way you handle it, but I understand where you come from

[@hiroshi7025]

Good day Markee, guys here!

[@whimsy-chan1188]

Maybe it's just me but kids don't have to go to the same school. You can change kids high schools when they show interest/potential. Plenty of my coworkers in Australia have sent their kids to different schools in a combo of private and public depending on their interest and dedication. No point sending a kid to school specialising in STEM or Law when they want a trade - you want to pick a school with a good VET program and links to TAFE. If the public school already has a good program I wouldn't be choosing a private school at this early stage and it would be better to put that money toward extracurriculars.

[@catsncrows]

S1 Op gets on reddit and screams "I have a golden child" gets bent out of shape and defensive

[@spriken]

Story 1: Didn't WWII teach us if they want to go to art school let them go to art school!?

[@dzll]

I find it interesting that there are so many successful art stories in the KZbin comment section. In my area 3 art universities including the infamous art institute, closed down. It is difficult to make living in art. Especially fashion,

[@dre1978]

Kids know when they're parents don't like or approve of them. I'm sure OP doesn't do anything to hide his views on art either. His daughter probably already has self esteem/worth issues because her own father doesn't see any value in her

[@beckf1858]

The dad has put zero effort into researching careers for artistically gifted people. I have a very good friend who is a freelance graphic designer, and attended the Dallas Institute of Art. He easily pulls in a six figure income. His siblings are lawyers, and based on my view from the cheap seats, my friend is doing much better than his siblings. He is debt-free and far less stressed (although part of it is his personality and not so much his career). Dan and his siblings were all sent to expensive af private schools and attended prestigious colleges. Their parents are just as proud of Dan as they are his siblings. Hope this dad pulls his head from his backside, and sees that being artistically gifted isn't a ticket to a life as a penniless artist. That trope is no longer valid.