I don't think this is fair, let's talk about Blood Bowl 3 reviews!

[@Galrukh]

A basically unplayable single player is enough to warrant a mixed review. You can argue it is a solely multiplayer game BUT only hardened players know that AND if thats the case, dont even bother putting in single player outside of a tutorial.

[@cKnoor]

I would personally disagree since it's specifically a multiplayer game, but I think it's fair to not be pleased with BB3 if you are looking to play solo.

[@ijmbvck]

​@@cKnoorThen why even add it to the game? It feels like it adds nothing but frustration.

[@filipmaly6603]

@@cKnoor Sir, if you promise a feature but failed to deliver it is missing feature. Why I, as customer, should tolerate it? Not ready to launch a product, do not launch said product.

[@JorisVDC]

Blood Bowl is, like chess and any digital card games, a PvP game at heart. This will never change and the single player mode will always remain an afterthought or something of an extended tutorial, where you can test potential builds or have dumb fun.

[@Galrukh]

@@JorisVDC If thats their plan then they absolutely, 100% need to say that in the game description. "This is a multiplayer game, single player is not a proper game mode". They did NOT do this. EXACTLY what I said in original post, not everyone knows this beforehand. Your arguement is NOT a good excuse. They F'ed it and deserve every single bad review they got.

[@vampuricknight1]

The pricing structure is awful and has only gotten more predatory with time. I remember finding this channel after Cknoor taught TotalBiscuit and friends how to play all the way back in Bloodbowl Chaos edition. That was a standalone $15 game and had 23 races and was a lot of fun for that price point even if it wasn't a perfect product. Then bloodbowl 2 came out and was priced at $20... but only a fraction of the teams from Bloodbowl 1... you then had to buy DLC's totally up to around $90 in total if you wanted all the teams... BUT you did get some nice new animations and updated/cleaned up rules and graphics... pricey but you got what you paid for in terms of quality with each team feeling like a proper expansion in terms of models, animations, cosmetics and even additional rules. Now in Bloodbowl 3 you pay $30 (notice how the initial barrier to entry goes up and reviews go down... because prices set expectations) you get all the teams whenever they are made (which always sucks if one of your favorites isn't available) and an updated ruleset but the animations/graphics tend to be very basic and you will get nickel and dimed if you want cool looking cosmetics many of which would be free in previous iterations. (also note for a DLC of cosmetics for a single team you are expecting to pay the same for 2 full teams in bloodbowl 2, in terms of direct value comparisons thats awful). Also don't get me started on the "blood pass" thing. Passes are almost always more predatory than letting the consumer make an informed decision for a specific item... be it a game, a DLC, etc. That is probably why reviews have been low/poor... general audiences do not like microtransactions at all... but if they are included players like to feel they are getting their money's worth by purchasing them... and in this case BB3 had dropped the ball and its effected the reviews appropriately.

[@cKnoor]

BB1, was not 15 bux, you just joined late when the rest of us had already paid for the developement with the expansions. :D As in it did go on sale quite often, but you still needed to pay for each itteration if you wanted to play with the new teams. There was no way to unlock them without paying for them. This was also the model for BB2.

[@jmurray2018]

@ yup that was my experience of BB1 & 2 You had to buy the other teams and then buy official team colors like the gouged eye but you can also grind to unlock them but the grinding system is really unfairly priced/implemented encouraging people to spend money. I do agree they use predatory practices. In today’s world we never buy a complete game we buy a small part and end up buying DLC worth more than an initial game maybe 6 times over. It’s one way game developers can stay in business and continue to employ people. The cost of living is ignored by major companies as they know it’s human nature and greed to keep wanting more. So really we are to blame for these predatory practices as we are dum enough to spend thousands of $ For skins. My views on BB3 are positive apart from the micro transactions I find them indeed predatory but they have given us a way to gain these items freely (according to cknoor) From what I’ve seen it looks great I bought the advanced edition can’t remember its title so it’s been sitting on my stream account waiting for me to play since it was first released . I haven’t played it once as I decided to wait for all the bug fixes and it to be more of a full game with all the teams. Releasing teams in stages keeps the longevity of the games shelf life but I’m aware of its history of complaints. Does anyone remember the very first blood bowl game ? Chaos league 2004 I bought that and thought that game was great

[@NapoleonSoares]

Or maybe, you just joined BB1 late, but then was a fan of the product and paid full price for the second game... like most people do? No one else is going around complaining about spending $60 on dark souls 1, 2, and 3 and then other people being able to get them super cheap way after they came out... thats a very normal business model. You werent there for the start of BB1, so you didnt pay full price, but you were for the later titles.

[@sh1k4]

We had historical spike in inflation. Even chicken fillets doubled in price. Maybe manage your expectations

[@tripp9278]

I used to regularly watch Blood Bowl 2 games on KZbin. Blood Bowl 3 is so much worse at giving information at a glance that I find it nearly unwatchable.

[@cKnoor]

I can't really agree with that, but at launch it was pretty rough. Now though having the roster available at all times for example is real nice.

[@JRDeBo]

​​​@@cKnoorI would have agreed with you a week ago. But then I decided to watch Crendor's matches (which he still does in BB2) and it just felt better. And I've been playing BB3 since it launched so it's not like I haven't had time to get used to it. Yes the QoL changes are great, but not being restricted to GW figurines for their models allow for more distinct models. As someone who plays BB3 I know what those circles mean, but if someone hops into stream not knowing a thing about BB (or very little) those circles mean nothing. So BB2 is easier to read. You don't need to be told what the circles mean and the skill icons are very readable even on a cellphone (and while I like customizable dice, they can make some things harder to read) . If you know a bit about BB BB3 is acceptable, and if you are the one playing it, BB3 definitely is better. So I gotta agree with the previous person, for someone watching, even after all this time with BB3 (both watching and playing), Crendor's games on BB2 were just easier to watch. Edit: I still think BB3 deserves a positive review, just seconding the persons point.

[@RossBunceFKK]

@@JRDeBo I'm in the same situation as you. I've been playing bb3 since launch, and though i feel it has definetely improved, I much prefer bb2. For all the reasons you gave and more. I feel stressed when playing bb3. Whether its the readability of the player models, or the clunkiness of the UI. Whenever i take a trip back to BB2 its as though a sweet summer breeze just took me (comparative to BB3) and I long for the iron tinted scent of bloody mist as my Chorf piles on an Orc Blitzer and i hear the sickening 'Kerrunch' of armour breaking.

[@garfy1000]

@@cKnoor I struggle to watch BB3 on my TV compared to BB2. The pitches are way too busy and everything is harder to see (even with skill rings and the red/blue colours). I have to maximise BB3 and not show chat, or sit closer. For me, visibility of play-state in BB3 is still a huge issue. It's great that it's not a problem for you though.

[@motokuchoma]

This game has been extremely adamant on making singleplayer unfun. And I dont mean this even in terms of AI - they don't let you do hotseat play, you cannot play a local league at all. They are TERRIFIED of letting people play this game who might not have bought a copy. If Cyanide is still short charging me and not letting me play solitaire which I would LOVE to do - then they can fuck right back off with their FOMO event monetization garbage.

[@cKnoor]

I was going to say hot seat is available, but I am guessing that you're talking about it not being available as an option for a private league? You should give that feedback to them if that is the case, as it seems like a solveable problem.

[@christopherzajonskowski7123]

Sorry, but I rarely heard worse arguments being made. And I came in without any prior knowledge of what is going on specifically with BB3 right now. Season passes being 'common' in other games is NOT a good argument for them. Just because other games to stupid shit it doesn't magically become less stupid shit. So people rating the game low because they are not comfortable with it is clearly FAIR. The game's single player AI being 'potentially improved' also changes nothing about the current status quo. Since people rate the game based on what is true NOW and not what might be true in the future, this seems FAIR to me as well. Arguing pro for BB3 based on some minor improvements compared to its predecessor is also quite weak. It's a full-price game - of course people expect it having at least some benefit over the previous iteration, otherwise there wouldn't be any incentive to pay the same software again. But that is the bare minimum expectation the consumer has - that usually doesn't earn something a particularly positive reception. In general choosing the term 'fair' here seems more than questionable. One could even argue that using your influence as a content-creator to potentially generate positive reviews which are not generated 'natively' might be unfair. In fact, checking the review graphs right now it seems as if there are already some weird things going on - I saw even some reviews that are suspiciously parroting things said in this video which are all just from the last few hours. Hard to really put my finger on it, but something doesn't sit right with me...

[@JRDeBo]

For the season pass, which option would you prefer? 1. If you want a new team you must hand us money to get it. 2. If you want the newest team you can earn it for free by playing the game you already bought. And if you don't want to take the time to earn it, you can buy I like in #1. Would you mind explaining how 1 is better than 2.

[@cKnoor]

I agree with @JRDeBo , I personally can't think of a better way to continualy monetize the game then what they currently have. But I am genuinly curious what other options you can think of. "Arguing pro for BB3 based on some minor improvements compared to its predecessor is also quite weak. It's a full-price game - of course people expect it having at least some benefit over the previous iteration, otherwise there wouldn't be any incentive to pay the same software again. But that is the bare minimum expectation the consumer has - that usually doesn't earn something a particularly positive reception." Not minor improvements, major improvements... "In general choosing the term 'fair' here seems more than questionable. One could even argue that using your influence as a content-creator to potentially generate positive reviews which are not generated 'natively' might be unfair." The opposite happened with the rage bait videos around pre-season. It seems fair to me that I point out that I think the game is good.

[@bvddh]

​@@JRDeBoOr you know, launching the game with the same teams that were in BB1 over a decade ago for half the price of just base BB3 today. That's my biggest reason for not even buying bb3, it just seems to be a less complete remake of a game I already bought ages ago that I could just go play. And even if they reach content parity, half or more of it'll be locked behind bs battle passes or more purchases.

[@filipmaly6603]

@@cKnoor None. Blood Bowl should not be perpetually monetize. It is full price PC and console game.

[@NapoleonSoares]

Something being common in other games is ABSOLUTELY a reason why complaining about it and review bombing a SPECIFIC game makes no sense. How is that even an argument you can try and make in good faith? It doesn't matter if you don't LIKE a particular thing if you don't apply that dislike to all kinds of that thing, otherwise you just sound like a hater. if you go around saying you don't enjoy processed fast food and therefore Mcdonalds SUCKS but then you eat at every other fast food restaurant, your entire basis for why Mcdonalds is bad in the first place is illogical. If the practice of battle passes is common in the industry, and most of the games people play willingly and enjoy have battle passes, why is Blood Bowl getting clowned on for it but everyone is happily playing Marvel Rivals right now which uses the EXACT same model? And its not the same software or minor improvements to its predecessor, there are entirely new teams and an entirely new ruleset. 2k has been doing this with every brand of sports game since they started making them for instance. Cyanide has made a ton of improvements to the game and introduced an entirely new ruleset, people paid for it on tabletop without complaining because that's what you DO for games like this, why would the digital version be different?

[@adamcronk86]

This is a weird video. I respect that you’re significantly more knowledgeable about the game, but I feel like it’s a bad sign for any game to be in a position where the product doesn’t speak for itself. I also feel like the value proposition of the passes needs to largely defend itself - and people have to be welcome to have a difference of opinion on what *feels* better even if passes make more business sense or are an industry standard. I’m still making my way through the video, but to some extent this feels like the argument about mutations from earlier on in that it comes down to taste or opinion. I definitely understand that you are enjoying this iteration of Blood Bowl, but I don’t think you can argue others into feeling the same. *Added after finishing: it’s hard for games to make up ground after a rough early going, and it seems like that’s ultimately the challenge BB3 faces - getting coaches who left earlier negative reviews to try the game again. In that context, I think the unfortunate reality is that the pass model (with its FOMO) actually works against the game.

[@cKnoor]

I mostly agree with you, and my intention for the video is more to reach out to other coaches that also enjoy the game and make them aware of the review situation. I specifically didn't try and sway someone that left a negative review, as everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[@NapoleonSoares]

Why are positive review videos where someone says something nice about a game considered weird but comments or videos saying the game is unplayable garbage are totally... fine? One type of opinion we "have to be welcome to have a difference" Well don't you as well? He's just saying that he thinks people who are currently saying the game "sucks" haven't actually touched it since launch and that what was once an ENTIRELY reasonable review of the game is now no longer the truth. I agree that it's on Cyanide - launch a better product - but I don't think its weird to say "hey guys, remember that game that is bad... well, turns out, it's not bad anymore"

[@NeiroAtOpelCC]

I skipped out on bloodbowl 3 because I had run out of goodwill with cyanide long before. I own 3 versions of bloodbowl 1 and don't think they delivered what they promised. For instance they promised an option to use the older rules we knew from the physical game and fumbbl. Of course they didn't. Bloodbowl 2 was somehow even less stable than 1 and a general disappointment. So when a bloodbowl 3 with micro transactions was announced it was clear to me that these people don't care for players at all, except for our money. If they don't know how to craft a good AI, hire a programmer that does. I didn't even know the singleplayer was missing, but knowing that now I definitely will not invest in half a game.

[@cKnoor]

I've never heard them promise older itterations of the rules for BB1, but then again I might have missed it. BB1 was a lot more fractured in where the playerbase talked to each other.

[@ArsonBjork]

You can't tell people their reviews are wrong If a game is good it will get good reviews Cyanide/GW keeps disapoining every step of the way from launch to season 7 with broken promises This video is a very copium take

[@LateNightZythix]

I think you've got an unconscious bias here. You want the game to be good because you've been involved with the community for so long and its popularity directly effects the growth of your channel and platform. This game came out broken, took years to make even remotely playable, and is completely inaccessible to new players. Mixed is beyond fair in my opinion, probably a bit generous considering how badly Cyanide fumbled the ball on this one.

[@cKnoor]

I agree that it did deserve a worse rating at launch, however I think a Steam rating should reflect the current state of the game, and not the launch state of the game.

[@LateNightZythix]

@@cKnoor I would say mixed reflects the current state of the game. It's UI is still visually and functionally inferior to 2, it's still relatively inaccessible to new players, and whether or not you want to respect single-player, the fact is that it's a feature in the game and it's trash.

[@sharpdressedgoblin]

no it's deserved they released a broken unfinished product and after a year and a half we still have no eternal league or AI for single player users that isn't brain dead. a lot of us don't like playing on ladder because i use eternal league to try out new teams for tabletop.they really should of just delayed until it was ready and i would of respected them more if they did that. however i still enjoy watching you play on ladder though but god is it hard to read when i'm watching you when you were playing Norse on Norse literally couldn't tell who was your player and the opponents. if they want a no man's sky redemption arc they better hop to it... been wanting to do a video on all the blood bowl games including chaos league and the dos game but been waiting for this to subside so i can give it a fair shake.

[@cKnoor]

www.bloodbowl-thegame.com/blood-bowl-3-eternal-league-status/ Please go help them fix it, I care about multiplayer, so I gave feedback on that from launch onwards. And that is in a great spot. You have the chance to do the same.

[@earwig1000]

I personally hate the monetization for BB3. It's priced as if it's a free to play game. I hate the seasonal passes. I hate that the seasonal passes are worse now. Crammed full of worthless titles and profile garbage. Is anyone else mad that the pass no longer includes the cheerleader?

[@cKnoor]

What type of purchase model would you prefer?

[@earwig1000]

Oh, and I recently experienced a game crashing bug when my opponent used the dump off skill that cost me the match I was winning. A problem reported by many - at the launch of the game.

[@earwig1000]

​@@cKnoora simple DLC model. Pay a price, get the thing. No fomo, no predatory nonsense, no currency. No piecemealing individual pieces of armor for specific members of specific teams. What do you like about the current model?

[@cKnoor]

That's literally the current model, except you can also unlock the current team for free if you play around 35 matches in 3 months.

[@earwig1000]

@@cKnoor no, it isn't. If I want the latest Stellaris DLC pack, I pay the $15-$20 and I get everything. If I want to buy new BB3 content I need to buy specific amounts of warpstone currency (an obfuscation tactic) to buy the pass. I then have a limited amount of time to unlock a portion of content (still plenty of ala cart items only available in the shop not included). My question stands. In your vid you explained you didn't think this system was as bad as it could be, but what do you think is really GOOD about it? That you can get a team for free? That's it?

[@903i9]

Here's my single player AI input. Kill guy with ball. Pickup ball, put into endzone. 1000% improvement.

[@motokuchoma]

Playing the first turn of Bloodbowl has more variations as the entirety of chess if every player was a basic human lineman. This game is crazy complex.

[@JorisVDC]

If only it was this easy. Sadly the best way to play any game is dependent on so many different factors. So to develop a half decent algorithm, Cyanide would need to build or buy an actual AI program, and this is very expensive and it would put a lot of drain on the server or your PC. But I do agree, that it should be feasible to come up with an algorithm that is capable of making better decisions. I always think that Cyanide should organize a competition designed to attract AI students, to show off which UNI has the best performance of the algorithm.

[@tominieminen66]

If they keep working on the game and making meaningful improvements the game will eventually get better scores. It's hard to earn back broken trust, but it's not impossible. They reaped what they sowed and hopefully they will sow something better going forward. And it's not all their fault either, some of the problems are because of the stricter rules GW laid out. My comment might be too optimistic 😂

[@strach76]

No offence but your under the influence of cyanide and im guessing they have approached u and a few other "VIPs" to boost the game as much as possible. Clever tactics from them but kinda selling your soul a bit here. The game right now IS improving but it is still full of bugs and as of right now the SP ai very very poor.

[@cKnoor]

I do cover the AI. But again, it's not something I personally care about. If you don't believe me based on previous videos then I am not going to convince you regardless. But I do think my track record with BB games do speak for itself.

[@TheOtakuKat]

I'm just waiting for BB3 to come to GOG like the first two Blood Bowls.

[@MauveMalcontent]

My father purchased the game on sale for £12.50 and has acquired every team bar shambling undead without haven't spent any additional money. People are just upset that they jumped on the bandwagon at release and double down at every opportunity.

[@Seelenoede]

I started watching again now after stop watching after BB3 came around. And I can agree that things seem much clearer now. Also the AI topic is somewhat sensible, but only if you already know the AI issues with BB. Also the argument for the season pass was pretty... lame. Bringing up FOMO as a good thing is wild. And saying "other games do it too" is such a weak argument. I think, you make a mistake by pointing out how much BB has incremented, instead of maybe addressing concerns have, who touch BB 3 for the first time. Maybe the franchise as a whole. Because, they don't know the improvements and only see the current state and might be disappointed by it.

[@cKnoor]

I genuinly think only relying on Fomo on a season pass is "a good thing". It means you don't actually have a worse time playing if you don't buy into it. There are so many other monetization routes they could have gone with, and one that is purrely cosmectic makes a lot of sense to me. If you are playing the game for the first time, you are a lot less likely to have a bad time compared to those that only played at launch.

[@shocknawe]

Does it have local multiplayer? As in 1 PC 2 players.

[@reliantoppo]

This is what I was looking for. I have been an avid fan of Blood Bowl (physical tabletop) and enjoyed the video game as well. I was extremely hopeful for BB3, but the reviews and anecdotal reviews from friends has kept me away. I searched this out hoping they finished this game (heard lots of bugs upon release).

[@JorisVDC]

Totally of topic here, but I wish that people stopped calling algorithms AI. IMHO even neural networks aren't true Artificial Intelligence, as Intelligence, in the core meaning is the ability to 'read between the lines' while all I have algorithm see do is to optimize results based on feedback mechanisms. I have tried all version of Single player mode, from BB 1 over 2 and now 3 and it seems that it has only gotten worse. If it had some form of learning, it would be better, but in the current algorithm, it prioritizes getting 2 die blocks over anything ball related positioning. It also has no awareness about the clock and it now even ignores relevant skills: not prioritizing players with Block for Block or Blitz actions, hell even the thrower is rather part of the cage, than being the one who actually picks up the ball. So you might understand why people who have some knowledge about Blood Bowl call it miserably bad. It's only good at learning you the mechanics of the game, but it actually hurts your development of actual strategy to winning games, as it rarely punishes any mistakes you have made. Of course AI is possible, by I don't think that any game developer is willing or able to invest the hardware it would require to run in order to perform good enough.

[@Phelixc]

I'm purely playing single player, so not having that in the game ruined this game for me. It was terrible in blood bowl 2 as well, but this is worse.

[@DouglasIrby-k2u]

AI is bad, but better than it was. They're working on it, and so I think it'll get there. The game is working, with only minor issues for me. The biggest problem I've had recently is that the die rolls are backwards. If you try and dodge, and roll a one into a four, it shows the four and then shows the one. This is strange, but hardly justifies anger.

[@BalgaBear]

as someone who does not play sports, the only sports game I have ever played was NFL BLITZ

[@JorisVDC]

Thank you for this video: I will make a positive review as the game has been developed into an actual playable state. I no longer feel the urge to go and play on Fumbbl. Although I really have loved that platform, it's no longer appealing to go through all the steps, just to have a flat interface for playing the game. Although the GUI is far more practical than what Cyanide has summoned from the Warp, it seem like a brainchild of Tzeentch!

[@jmurray2018]

Not played BB3 yet. But if I can get it all free I’m good for BB3 I only have a current positive opinion of it. BTW I still found it difficult watching your videos on KZbin with Norse vs Norse I didnt understand who was who? I think I worked out the team with the double ring around them is the team In possession is that correct ?

[@cKnoor]

I think I turn on red / blue at some point in the game, which makes it easier to see the different teams.

[@jmurray2018]

@ Thanks I didn’t noticed I just got so confused by all the teams looking the same . What becomes blue and what becomes red so I can look out for it next time?

[@ijmbvck]

It's only relying on FOMO not pay to win. That's setting the bar really low dude. Yeah we are shit but others are really shit is not the defence you think it is.

[@cKnoor]

What system would you prefer for monetization?

[@ijmbvck]

@cKnoor No battle pass. No locking customisation behind a grind wall, or just pay to unlock it right now. I know its just cosmetic but there are many gamers who dont play games for hours every day. And having to pull my creditcard just to make my team look the way i want it sucks. I know everyone does micro (macro) transactions but please just count how much it cost to buy everything in the game right now. And tell me its worth that much mony.

[@dark1stknight555]

last season I played half a game of blood bowl 3 against real people I had an error happen at an incredibly crucial part of the game where I couldn't activate my players I saw they said they imporved the AI (which trust me that wasn't a high bar) so I gave it a look and turn 1 they did a rush turn 1 to walk into a square they walked past. Now that is hilariously an improvement. I bought this 'game' on release and don't get me wrong it has improved since then, but when I look at the improvements the only ones that were already in BB2 are the team colours changer and the positional rings the changing of automatic skills was in 2 there was less options of what skills you could see in 2 but it wasn't bad everytime I was asked what I wanted I have said give us the ability to put 3 players up for MVP as as much as it might help the really bashy teams necro can't level the wraiths without them getting MVP I get it the game has improved and I am impressed with the effort cyanide is putting in but I only think its comparable to 2 now and that's not good enough when they released the game the way they did

[@cKnoor]

If solo play is important, then yes I don't think they've earn a positive review yet. "everytime I was asked what I wanted I have said give us the ability to put 3 players up for MVP as as much as it might help the really bashy teams necro can't level the wraiths without them getting MVP" This is not according to the rulebook, and it seems like those types of tweaks are not going to happen in BB3. If they did implement custom rules I would personally be against it, as it's just too powerful. But in a solo campaign, that can be really really fun.

Thanks for the review. Ill wait for single player to be playable

[@sprite9849]

Why you should not give BB3 a positive review: 01 Asking fans to be free QA testers because the dev team is too understaffed to test and develop a functioning AI is not how any game should be developed, if a product doesn't work or can't be fixed in the short term it shouldn't be released. Quality matters. 02 Predatory business practices shouldn't be tolerated whatsoever. Customisation is a vital part of the game. We are not talking about players looking a bit cooler, we are talking about the necessity to grind away loads of time, or pay real money to get any sense of distinction between players of similar positions at all. We are talking about functions being cut in order to gatekeep and monetize. „This is the current industry“ should never be taken as an excuse for such practices. Otherwise in 10 years knoor is going to tell us why it's actually fine that all playermodels are magenta coloured placeholder cones, because if you really need textures and 3D models, you can always buy them, like you'd buy a miniature in real life as well. Jokes aside, even for modern standarts the monetisation model of BB3 seems very shady. 03 Honesty is good, but a statement like „we couldn't put decent effort in our game, because we only produce assets that can be sold off for cash directly, in a game that already has quite a hefty pricetag“ is not acceptable. Look at what small indie developers manage to do with way smaller teams and budgets. At the end at the day quality doesn't matter to Nacon. Sales do. Exclusively. If they get encouragement after releasing a product in this shape they will continue to do so, and to blame are those who bought the game and talked others into doing so. I feel bad for the development team who is putting so much effort into creating a product just to get held back by extremely questionable business practices.

[@cKnoor]

01. In this case I think it has more to do with the fact that you need a lot of BB knowledge to understand the choices made in games. And generally I agree that having qualified QA is very important and is something the games industry as a whole is missing. However certain behaviors are only really visible when a lot of games are played, and with BB having so many different ways of playing a turn that effect is even more pronounced. In these type of case it makes some sense to ask for player feedback for people already playing the game. 02. This has never been the case of digital BB, in BB1 you have armor changes as the player levelled up, and in BB2 you could change the face of players. These faces were only really visible to your opponent and not you. You could also buy in-game store skins, but could only apply them to a fresh team. The idea that previous versions had this type of content in the box is simply not true. Nor are they needed, with positional rings and customized visible skills you can keep track of your players. Having a burning treeman is cool, but it's not really used to keep track of which tree has block on a fling team. 03. Comparing games in another genre is false equivalence, the cost of developement in graphic assets vary wildly, and successful indie games tend to have a lot of grind, sweat and passion behind them. This is all great, but we should not expect developers to work for scraps just to get a chance at a succesful game. I am of the opinion that most developers should be paid more for less work, and not have other games devalue their efforts.

[@sprite9849]

@@cKnoor Thank you for your thoughts, I want to clarify a few points: 01 I might have been to vague here. In no way would I expect a dev team to develop an AI that has any resemblence to a human player. This would be far to complicated to pull off, I just would love to have an AI that gives you at least a whiff of a challenge. Otherwise I'm with you here. 02 You are wrong about this. BB1 had at least a bit of visual progress and customisation through its level bound armor changes. BB2 had quite a bit of customisation through the ability to choose different heads and on certain teams mutations. Why do you think the devs made the „design decision“ to get rid of visible mutations, one of the most interesting visual features? It's because it interfered with the plans to sell off customisation items for each body part of a model. BB3 has no customisation that isn't locked behind a paywall (which creates revenue) or a grindwall (which boosts steam ratings due to active players). Those changes were made deliberately, they are scammy and predatory and should not be justified or tried to be explained away. BB3 is a full price game that tries to sell items to players that were in the game already on launch. Yes, 30 $ is full price for a nieche game with the amount of content that BB offers. Also, it is not really up to you to generally decide what features are needed or not. 03 You seem to be under the impression that sales of assets are directly influencing the developers salaries. This is not how companies work. Unfortunately the developers won't profit much from ripping off players. It's the publisher that gets the money. And though BB might not have the luxury to be able to fall back on Asset store items, the props in the game do in no way justify the way they are distributed. Different games can obviously be compared. It all depends on using correct metrics. A game that in my opinion has a very fair pricing policy is X4. It is way more complex than any BB game and also done by a small studio. Their DLC policy is outstanding to me. I absolutely understand that your channel depends on people having positive associations with the game, and that you are probably more eager to defend the game than people who are not dependend on content creation. However that's why I would argue it is even more important to push for quality and fair pricing and content distribution. All the mentioned problems (excluding AI) could be solved easily over night.

[@adubs365]

My thing for the play to get a free team model is it shouldn’t take 30 hours. 3/4 of a work week over a month or two is a lot. Some people are busy i would say maybe 10 hours would be good. You would have more casual players interested with more content. You would even cash in on the short attention span people because it wouldn’t take 1000 years to do.

[@cKnoor]

I agree that the blood pass can be tailored for progress quicker, however with the weekly quests you get it done decently fast. In theory I think you can speedrun it quicker than 30 hours if you have good quests. But 30 hours / 30 matches seems to be a decent average for the time it takes currently.

[@Baraz_Red]

Returning consumer here :P Beyond the negative reviews, there are also the people like me who did not buy the game (though as a BB2 player I was hopeful) because I did not like many actual aspects at release, notably how the MTX worked. But I keep an open mind and came back to check it out now. I like the changes they have made, from basic customizations being now applicable to many players, the addition of some teams, etc. It is now on my Wishlist.

[@Baraz_Red]

Visuals : I actually prefer the BB2 visuals, UI, etc. (which is superficial: I will get BB3 in time) The leagues UI in BB2 (even just vs AI) though was confusing for me.

[@Loremaster17]

Damn cKnoor getting slaughtered worse than a Snotling caught between an Ogre, Troll, and Minotaur in the comments section.

[@cKnoor]

Nah, it's fine. I get why some are still annoyed, I've seen it all twice before. 😅

[@NapoleonSoares]

@@cKnoor It is crazy how many people seem to be telling you that you are coping for liking this game because "they got a complete game on launch with bb2 or bb1" and I'm just sitting here like... y'all weren't there when those games launched, were you?

[@Biggi2Biggi]

I recently started watching you vids again and I agree the game is 100% better than on release, I might get it if it is on sale(not because the game is not worth it but because of my current financials). There are still some readability issues I have with it tho, kinda hard to tell what player is on what team for me, I get that the current turns player has 2 circles around their dudes but I wish the opponents tiles were tinted red or something, which there might be an option for something like in the the settings and you don't happen use it, could also just be an issue with your recent matches being norse vs norse xd. Still unsure if a battlepass is correct for this type of game though, blood bowl is the type of game where I play like one or two matches a week so the battlepass just looks like a collection of stuff I will never get to use.

[@Biggi2Biggi]

Should also add that I don't think the steam review score will change much since people don't tend to update their reviews

[@cKnoor]

To be fair, if you play 1-2 games per week you are likely to unlock the whole thing in time. And I agree, I don't think the coaches that have left an early review and are not longer playing will update their reviews. This is more for those that stuck around, and have not review should consider leaving a review.

[@DiafolEternal]

Maybe if every patch didnt break something major which remains broken for a week or two.

[@Tarmenell]

The best Jehovah's Witnesses video about religious conversion I've seen on KZbin so far. :-D

[@MarketResearchReading114]

I believe they substantively improved the game. They got my negative review changed, not too too long ago. Was happy to see the improvement.

[@dlanorsoved]

Asking people to leave a positive review for a game they don't like is asking them to be hypocrit.

[@cKnoor]

I would agree

[@NapoleonSoares]

Agreed. The game launched poorly, but has made up for it mostly by now, including giving us stuff i never thought we'd get. It's not perfect, but there are so many reviews with complaints that are fixed or not real anymore.

[@TheMadwizz]

I love Blood Bowl and I think it is close to being the perfect competitive board game. But I was very disappointed with BB3 when it first came out with its awful microtransactions. At that time I do not think that BB3 had anything more to offer then what BB2 already had. So I forgot about BB3 and had not thought about that game until I saw this video.

[@overelemental]

While I do feel Mixed is fair, I don't think it's entirely Cyanide's fault. In my opinion, some of Games Workshop's rules alterations were bad, and it made the base for BB3 bad. Earlier versions had more consistent rules, even if there were obviously some logical fallacies in the old rulesets as well. But BB3 itself felt clunky and the user interface was really bad for me. While BB2s controls took some getting used to, at least I managed to get used to it. In BB3, it felt like the controls was trying its hardest to be counter-intuitive for a PC-user. It might be better on consoles, I have no idea. I also don't like how they changed from the fantasy-ish user interface to something that felt more like a basketball game with the blue and red, but that's an artistic choice, and not by itself the reason it deserves a mixed review. I bought it after release, and while I have 100s of hours in bb1 and bb2, I've not wanted to play bb3 since trying to give it a fair chance. If they release a BB4, I'll give it a go though.

[@foxyahriana]

I just can't! I had to get really drunk to try and grind the Necro blood pass I purchased cuz I love necro, they are my favorite team. I am so scared of multiplayer I can't get my self to do it. And you have to play so many games. :see_no_evil: I just wana play vs the AI and pretend I'm doing fantasy football growing my team. I did not even manage to finish the blood pass :pensive: so now I did not even get the necro stuff I wanted and payed for. I understand that this is how the world works now but I will just stick to painting figures instead. And when it comes to me helping them improve the AI. I don't know what I can do, I feel like hiring a chess AI professional programmer/strategist would help out with that more then me. And as a final thing, I miss the old rule system so much! I miss having hero units so much! I love your content Cknoor and I still love watching you play the game after all these years!

[@cKnoor]

To test AI you need people playing and pointing out weird interactions. That's something you can help with. You do not need to be a programmer for that. Also Chess has a lot less permutations on each turn compared to Blood Bowl. So it's probably not going to help much have a Chess programmer on board.

[@foxyahriana]

@@cKnoor I was mostly thinking about a chess programmer/strategist ability to make the AI think many turns forward might be a good thing for bloodbowl. But I don't know. I'm a 3D artist not a Programmer!

[@daviddemers5552]

Hello cknoor I watch your videos and I like blood bowl 3 I think it looks good, I bought the game on day 1 but unfortunately I only play solo so I've never been able to play it. I'm waiting for the eternal League. Until then I'm stuck playing blood bowl 2. But love watching you play thanks.

[@cKnoor]

And that is fair, they have not delivered on that yet.

[@NotTheWheel]

I wouldn't give it a negative review I just prefer BB1 with the living rule book. Because a chaotic game like BB1 should have a rule book held together by scraps of Whitedwarf magazine articles duct taped together and fan rules and fan understandings. I don't like how GW swooped in like a neglectful parent once you became successful just to mooch off your accomplishments. I'm very much a stickler for more races = gooder. Only thing I disagree with that you said was giving a pass to a Season Pass. Just because executives push something as the new norm doesn't mean you got to capitulate to them.

[@cKnoor]

Living Rulebook = best ruleset 100%

[@NotTheWheel]

@@cKnoor As an addendum* I'm sure the season pass is fine. Lots of games have good season passes. I just don't want to make myself comfortable with it being the new normal. Anyways that was my only bones rest of your video I agree. It's unfair when people unfairly tare down a game in response to things not being exactly perfect.

[@Lars923847928374]

For pvp, it is the best game I have ever downloaded

[@Dionyzoz]

I was a big fan of BB1-2 but never buyed bb3 because of the shit they delivered. Played first Beta, Menus felt like browsing with a 56k modem and i already knew they cant fix it until launch. Launch came and what ive seen it was excatly the same, like nothing changed from the beta.

[@cKnoor]

To be fair, the menues were fixed at launch. The last bit on menu lag was gone by Season 2 I want to say. But it's been a while since then. Menu lag is not a thing anymore.

[@Dionyzoz]

@@cKnoor was it fixed !? or was it just, no more server load because no one was there anymore. I dont support the whole always online stuff for a game that really dont need it. I can understand you, but they deserve what nacon got them into. Every negative review is more then well deserved. And i dont think the game has no redeeming qualitys but overall a clear miss.

[@cKnoor]

No, it was specifically fixed.

[@Stormpack]

I love the game, biased tabletop competitive player so it might not count? I totally understand the bloodpasses, i dont like them but i cant really disslike them either, keeps the game new and fresh and as you say, you dont need to pay for it. 1 up for seasons! oh, and i sent in a like ofc!

[@ertrstytry]

i'm still waiting for the price to drop to $5 plus the 2020 ruleset from the outside look in creates dull teams and dull games

[@clifforddrewer2738]

The launch of BB3 was terrible. I know that was years ago but it also left my enthusiasm for the game behind.

[@cKnoor]

Totally fair reaction, when you get the itch to come back know that the game is in a good state.

[@jolamber]

Enjoy playing the game. Wish the bloodpass wasn't so garage for f2p

[@TheVigilante2000]

Blood bowl has alway had bad, really bad AI. I thought it was to push people into multiplayer.

[@-Charon-the-Ferryman-]

I've been playing Blood Bowl in some form since 2016. This has mostly been on Blood Bowl 2 and Blood Bowl 3, along with some tabletop. Blood Bowl 3 is the primary way I get to play. I've been playing since the closed beta sessions before launch and regularly since launch. I would like to think most of the poor reviews come from the early periods of the game. The game has massively improved over the last (almost) two years. I have purchased the Blood Passes as they arrive not because I'm super interested in the cosmetics or having the new teams early, but more to support the growth of the game. I don't particularly like the Pass model, but it's what we have. I was disappointed that the Norse Pitch and Cheerleaders were not included, but I understand why they aren't there. I hope this will change in the future. The game is in a good (great?) place and is set to get better each Season. Thanks for this video.

[@andiibrams7188]

Man, I respect you and your play, but this...nah.

[@Apeshower]

I agree. The old reviews that are stuck there for posterity, in my opinion are out of date now. So many improvements have been made and the game is decent. I am glad I have it. Perfect- no. Good- yes. One thing as more of a casual player than yourself I do find the blood pass to be a bit of a bugger, I have missed teams in league simply because I can’t get to play enough and I am too tight to pay extra! That bits on me though……

[@cKnoor]

It is easier now than it was in season 1 - 5, it went from like a 50 match grind to a 30 match grind. It's still a bit of a grind though if you do not have that much time and only play like 1 or 2 games a week.

[@DesignInDepth]

Hopefully with a positive average review score more people take the dive to play/buy the game. More people playing is always good! Unfortuantely i am unable to play due to being a new dad, but i love watching your videos while im feeding my son, thank you Cknoor

[@cyanure1320]

here is my review of the game from yesterday First match after the tutorial and team customization (customization and formation set-up is nice)the camera is broken i just passed the refund time limit. Not sorry fix your game cyanide at least the gameplay basics features, you look like crooks

[@cKnoor]

Broken how?

[@cyanure1320]

totally zoomed in so you can't see more than 2 or 3 players and you can't zoom out or move it in any ways even if it was working perfectly well during the tutorial. Since i had that for my first match i can't even imagine how unfinished is this game, uninstalled it and wait to see if i can get a refund

[@michaelhannah6843]

I love the game but the rng really seem to be off a lot of the time. Ive played 5 gamds this weekend with chosen and had mulitple serious injuries or worse. Last game against dwarfs 2 goats and a blocker died. While all this is happening i cant get anymore than a stunned or kockdown as opp just removes all my players.

[@cKnoor]

Yeah, I had a really long cold streak at the end of last season, and it sucks. And while I can see that that is just RNG being RNG, it does probably impact reviews slightly, especially if you are a beginner and instantly go on a cold streak.

[@Glaaki13]

I doubt you can be trusted here

[@cKnoor]

I think you should be able to trust in my experience with the franchise and the whole series of games. If you don't believe me when I say I think it deserves a positive review, then that is fine. I'm asking you to leave one if you agree with me. I am not asking you to "trust me bro".

[@michaelborror4399]

I just had a great first game tie game against elven union that killed and seriously hurt a total of two of my dwarves!!!, and before that you'd think that my exhibition two trollslayer team diving catch blitzer would lose rolling uphill all day to all those gaurd orcs, but somehow he snakes away with the ball to the other end of the field and alot more ties lately anyway, lol??? And there's always battle brothers to play when there's nothing to do at work, and andy sayin everybodys playin diving catch dwarves and orcs, makin great touchdown passes every once in awhile, even without farblast now that I'm better at passing, and must be because my goblins are 1-0, with everybody else bringin the win percentage down usin 70k fanatic over 80k the loon without any bribes? And good riddance to that last jump-up and I think sidestep trollslayer with a dislocated shoulder in the last 2-3-2 team and zen though anyway, and must a got at least two elf surfs with the newbie anyway, and two trollaslayersbeing nice on the sidelines sometimes like last time against undead skeletons, but usually more situational I found anyway, and double frenzys getting countered harder by the crisscrossed dark elves in the center next, and blitzin with one trollslayer rather than two less blocking players into the stacks, and always forgetting about my safety runner rather than trollslayer in the mid backfield against elves though, or as a good twelth being better in the defensive backfield against elves and orcs than two runners, and match ups based more on record than tv I think anyway, and pretty strong positional just moving up to a solo guy three squares out and blizin with the other once you get tv out of your mind with a couple rerolls and an apo, and seeing some later game equal record matchups with bribeless goblins and still not firing the twelth guy like money is infinite this time, or havin one ulf swing to the backfield from the offside seems like a good frenzy safety with yeti on the line against elves with catch that nobodys talking about with +4ag and frenzy, and prior to my thrower stops and mid-field passes on human throwers playing back in the beginning, and ya really sure ya wanna cut the 140k yeti against gaurd orcs on the line with all those noob linemen, makin a better ryu than the slayer like ken for the frenzy surfs, and alot easier to get those lob passes with two runners after dodging the unblitzed loonie and his friends on the attack, and not havin any time for chainsaws even if a blitzer happened to throw the pass that game, and can survive better at high tv against morg than alot of teams?

[@DesignInDepth]

@@michaelborror4399 i really tried, but i do not understand what you said at all 😅