I Drive Toyota's Most Pointless Car: The Four Cylinder Supra. Am I Wrong To Doubt?

[@JayEmmOnCars]

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[@h.4rry491]

Car vertical is a scam. A potential customer did a check on my car that iv owned from new with a full dealer history. The check came back as 'incorrect mileage'. I lost the sale thanks to car vertical.

[@DUPLOBAKER]

@JayEmmOnCars did you try the straigh 6 manual ?

[@benfinesilver2250]

That performance and 40 mpg is unbelievable.

[@marekhild7192]

reallity is, that those engine are about as econimical as the i6 version.

[@watsonanthony8438]

Exactly. My 430i was getting 40 mpg and making way more than the advertised 240 hp lol.

[@HansBelphegor]

​@@watsonanthony8438 my beater car is a stock 289hp 2.0 n/a dohc 4 cyl... Hyundai

[@Motorsportsgeek]

My 6L corvette can get 40mpg driving behind a prius at 55mph but why would I do such a thing in a corvette?

[@marekhild7192]

@@Motorsportsgeek the point is, if you drive the b58b30 about the same way as the b46b20 they are about as econimical. the diffference is, that one engine has a least 100bhp more and at least in the current generation a lot faster.

[@Rgh71fish]

It baffles me that some people in the comments seem to be offended that a car like this exists with a lesser, more affordable engine option. Suggesting that if people can't afford the top model, they should just opt for a completely different car altogether. Sounds childish

[@Lukey-jy4ez]

Crazy, I bet most of them don’t even own the highest spec version of the car they have. Or even own a car 😅

[@peterborrowman2041]

XR3i v RS Turbo 😂 Not everyone wanted or could afford an RS

[@LeDechaine]

"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". I'm happy it exists.

[@Salpeteroxid]

​​@@LeDechaineI hate that saying. I have a Saab 2.0t 150hp and a Ford Mondeo 2.0 tcdi 130hp. I don't have fun in any of them. Driving my M4 on the Nürburgring was the most exhilarating and fun I've ever had in my life. I drove 250 and it wasn't even on the main straight and I drove 300kph on the autobahn. Potent cars are more fun for me because you push yourself not the car. It takes you out of your comfort zone.

[@bghoody5665]

2 litre and 3 litre options don't bother me nearly as much as them being BMW 2 litre and 3 litre. It's the same with the GR86 - it's a Subaru, not a Toyota. Same with the Supra - it's a BMW, not a Toyota.

[@griffins750]

Nobody should ever forget Toyota’s successful JGTC Supras were powered by a turbocharged 4 Cylinder. (Not a 3SGTE, 503E also called the 3SGT but they are not the same engine even remotely, both are great just different).

[@jyaad]

Yes, but BMW's dont have any good 4 Cylinders, Unless its their bike engines.

[@lewisbrown51]

​@@jyaad who says??? I've found the b48 engine very good, so far... Hopefully that continues to be the case

[@weeevilswine]

@@jyaadb48 is a great engine, it just gets outshined by their straight 6’s

[@ISLAMICSTORIES13]

@@jyaad b46/b48 good. but i agree the rest suck

[@griffins750]

@@jyaad E30 M3’s S14?

[@veemacks7255]

They had lower-engined versions of the Mk.4 Supra too. I guess some people need it for the lower prices, cheaper insurance, etc.

[@jimmynickelz]

The mk4 version had basically a camry engine. Bet all of those have 2jz swaps now. They were super cheap back in the day used.

[@2JZDestroyer]

@@jimmynickelz no it didn't, only the castrol a80 had the 3sgte.

[@samsherwen6912]

There was also a 2 litre JDM version of the MK3 supra, still I6. 1GGTE.. Only really worked with a manual box due to turbo lag / non VVTI.

[@yota8325]

@jimmynickelz wasn't a camry engine the a80 was all 2jz but turbo/gte and non turbo/ge

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@jimmynickelz Yeah, nah - there were only 2 options in the Mk4, 2JZ-GE naturally aspirated, and 2JZ-GTE, same engine but turbocharged. Don't comment if you have no idea what you are talking about. That being said, the 2JZ-GE was pretty weaksauce - IIRC it only put out something like 170bhp - I had the same engine in a Lexus SC300, and it was a slug to be sure.

[@enochthewitness719]

People need to be educated. I've been into cars for 25 years and used to buy all the Car Buyers Guides each year. In all the guides since the 90s, most cars were available with a WIDE range of engine size options, as countries have different regulations and rules, and people have different budgets. Many cars always had a range of small engines, mid size and higher performance larger engine options. Why are people baffled that some cars come with smaller engine options ?

[@devanman7920]

Exactly. I dont understand peoples problem, you can't afford the highest spec so get a different car

[@Gyushinoo]

Fast and furious made people stupid and ruined car culture.

[@jeffery8168]

@@devanman7920 People want to gate keep sports cars and hero cars. Like the debate between real amg and fake amg, Real M and M sport. Like just because the m340i is a cheaper version of the m3, doesn't make it an awful car.

[@devanman7920]

@@jeffery8168 Ya thats my point but people think if you get the lesser model you should have instead got something else

[@twoMidnight2Green4649]

Forget about that, these people who complain forget that the Supra was originally the top trim of the 4 cylinder Celica.

[@garnerblair5179]

Need a 5-cylinder option. The exhaust note would be musical bliss .

[@jeffery8168]

Not sure if BMW is willing to introduce a new 5 cyl lmao. I doubt they want to take the shine away from their straight 6's. Maybe someone can swap an audi straight 5 into it.

[@matess3655]

it would be the first ever normal gasoline rwd 5 cylinder car in the world lol edit: the only two "non normal" ones that exist are a Donkervoort and the newer KTM x-bow

[@asimmalik6378]

Fat tyres are such a great look and a nice change compared to the paper thin tyres these days.

[@Loothansa]

Definitely! Looks great with matte black wheels too. Thats one thing I love about the G80 M3. They have those thick sidewalls with very nice looking matte black wheels and wide fenders, which makes them look quite reminiscent of a GT3 car imo. Much more serious and racey appearance than most other performance cars. Too damn bad about that nose.

[@initialyeet3951]

@@LoothansaYeah, BMW messed up on the front end (as well as the rectangle flatscreen they stick in the new interiors). It’s not like the front is terrible, it’s just a poor design that doesn’t make much sense (did they not consult with actual people first?)

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

Tyre industry insider knowledge: OEM tyres may look and have the same model written in them as ones you buy aftermarket off the shelf, but they are usually an "F" model (factory), that tyre companies do deals with car manufactures, to look ones you buy aftermarket, but are made of a cheaper, harder rubber. So your Pilot Sport 5s that came on the car, as not as good as the Pilot Sport 5s you would replace them with that you buy at the tyre shop. So don't judge a tyre model by the ones that come factory on a car. Same in the motorcycle tyre world. Look for an F printed somewhere on the sidewall. But now tyre manufacturers are now totally hiding the fact that they are a cheaper version of a tyre that looks identical to ones you buy aftermarket. So if you don't know, now you know. Been in the tyre industry for 15 years.

[@bigchungus7807]

Wow, I never knew that, that's really interesting 🤔 I had pirellis on a car from new once and I thought the car just didn't handle well. When it came time to change the tyres I chose a different make and all of a sudden the car handled much better! I've avoided pirellis like a plague ever since!!😮

[@alexanderstefanov6474]

@@Tight--LiNeZ they always last much longer too

[@jerrys.]

Interesting but I would add that there are examples of Premium tyre brands that supply OE tyres and are marked for meeting the Car manufacturer specifications. For example N0 or N1-Porsche, MO-Mercedes, AO -Audi etc. Even Aston Martins marketing department were recently celebrating about Aston getting their first own spec tyres.

[@J0hnny8ravo]

Thanks for the insight! I’ve always thought factory tyres lasted longer than off-the-shelf lookalikes.

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

@@jerrys. Yup, but that's bespoke tyre models for certain high end cars. Not ya normal 225/40R18 for example. Tyre's that make up the major tyre models that make the bulk of a company's range.. e.g. the tyres that come on say a new Subaru Impreza, or Suzuki GSXR600, that are a common size. Those vehicles tyres will be slightly crapper than the exact same model tyre on the shelf at the tyre store. Usually a slightly cheaper compound or some other cost saving measure, even though to the tyre layman, they appear to be the exact same tyre.

[@hgfdshtrew8541]

driven a 4 cyl z4 which is the same care, absolutely stonking drive, beautiful sound. one of the best value, best built cars i've ever driven.

[@Ranguvar13]

You had me up to “beautiful sound”

[@t3hgir]

@@Ranguvar13 *laughs in VTEC*

[@NathanMannin]

I don’t doubt all those things you said, but beautiful sound? Come on… they sound like a vacuum cleaner at best 😉

[@bankruptsee]

Would have been an excellent experience with the 6cyl

[@GM-fh5jp]

Until you've owned a Toyota for a while you don't really understand what "reliability" is all about. The engineering and testing that goes into their cars is astounding. I could fill my '94 MR2 Turbo up with petrol, check the tyre pressures and fluids and basically drive it around Australia with absolute certainty that it would not break. Glad you did this follow up test, James and, yes, the GR-86 is indeed a fine car. Thanks for posting!

[@odin5188]

Same car same year, definately correct. Mine is on the OG gassed channel (Black MR2)

[@GM-fh5jp]

@@odin5188 Mines a black Rev 3 too...gotta a link to yours?

[@odin5188]

@@GM-fh5jp kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIjJh2qko72JhaMsi=3lMaEFIn8qv1yTxw

[@newblackdog7827]

BMW 💩! NOT a Toyota!

[@watsonanthony8438]

@@newblackdog7827the b48 and b58 is one most reliable engines out there. It’s rated top 10. Try again.

[@GamusinoAlbino]

4-pot rwd configurations are not a rarity to japanese manufacturers (some even quite successful) see Nissan Silvia, 240sx, Toyota AE86, Mazda Miata, Honda S2000!

[@TheImperfectGuy]

it's just odd to see this be on sale alongside the GR86, which is 200kg lighter, only 20 hp weaker and 20k cheaper

[@john1703]

@Roadrunner_1000 Then try an Alpine A110 for even more lightness.

[@t3hgir]

@@TheImperfectGuy the supra has a totally different wheelbase and track no? Also probably handles and brakes better. Lighter does not always equal better road holding/confidence in bends

[@staLkerhu]

Those are all underpowered "curb weight" sportscars, and we are talking about a market, where Kei cars are a thing. Some people want more than that.

[@GamusinoAlbino]

@@staLkerhu in a world dominated by overweight SUVs is such a blessing to still have the ability to choose between different sports cars

[@oliverwestmoreland-caunter5234]

I love the Supra, say what you like about the BMW bits and bobs but for me, it's the look of the thing. It's such a wild looking beast, almost has shades of TVR. Love it.

[@bubbleman2002]

It does look good, but it really is just a BMW in every way. I can't really understand why Toyota felt the need to partner with BMW like this, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, since having a BMW with superior resale value because it wears a sticker on its shirt that says, "Hi, my name is: TOYOTA" sounds like a great investment to me.

[@davepaturno4290]

​@bubbleman2002 It's simple - cost to develope an engine like the B58. If Toyota had to build an i6 engine from scratch, the resulting car would cost at least $80,000. And remember, sales projections were never intended to be high. Toyota learned their lesson, as did Mazda, Dodge, Honda, and Nissan. Also, Gazoo Racing's suspension tuning made the Supra a much better handling car vs. the BMW Z4. There is no BMW that is like the Supra. It has been received almost like an exotic car on the street. It really stands out!

[@newblackdog7827]

BMW 💩! NOT a Supra! 😡

[@davepaturno4290]

@@newblackdog7827 Actually, a recent Consumer Reports magazine's overall ranking of auto manufacturers selling vehicles in the US had BMW in first place, based upon: Performance Quality Reliability Ride comfort Safety Efficiency Toyota/Lexus is still ranked #1 for reliability and quality.

[@bubbleman2002]

@@davepaturno4290 Did Toyota ever consider they already have a perfectly good V6 platform that's very receptive to forced induction? "b-b-but it's not a supra without a straight six", but it literally isn't a supra BECAUSE it has a straight six, Toyota doesn't make those anymore, you said it yourself. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[@davidburke4101]

I don't think anything killed the supra other than the price. The audience for the supra was the kids who grew up with the JDM scene, grew up with Fast and Furious/Need for speed, or grew up with gran turismo etc. The supra came in at 46,000 dollars before dealer markups, and that's the 4cyl. Almost the entire target audience for the car was priced out of the car, so all you had left were people that would just buy a Benz or BMW instead. None of these auto manufacturers realize that the sports car market is best sold to people aged 18-30, and most of these people don't have the income to buy one of these. Many of the people that can afford them now have spouses and are getting Toyota Highlanders instead of the cars they wanted when they were young. They're trying to get money out of people that just don't have it. They should have just taken the Corolla platform, put a 2 door body on it, welded some stiffening bars and put the old Camry v6 inside of it.

[@lindsaywebb1904]

@@davidburke4101 didn't they do that the GR 86? Those that grew up with the Supra now have deeper pockets and for them, this is a somewhat nostalgic purchase

[@christopherjohnston6343]

Apart from the body you just made a Toyota Blade Master

[@t3hgir]

wasn't the whole "Supra" namesake itself because of the then named Celica coupe getting an I6 upgrade over the I4? I'd put Celica badges on this for laughs.

[@jamesengland7461]

Yes, the first and second generation was called the Celica Supra; same car as the Celica but with a 6 instead of a 4.

[@harryspeakup8452]

EXACTLY!

[@tommynobaka]

The Celica badge is badass. Miss all the old Toyota model specific badges

[@Mis73rRand0m]

Not quite the same as just putting an i6 in a Celica. It wouldn't be accurate to call this 2.0 "Supra" anything but it's name plate - all Celicas came as 2+2 or 5 seaters. That said, the first 2 gens of Celica Supras had unique longer hoods, fenders, radiator core support, and front clips to accommodate the longer engine also, so this thing would have to be shortened to fit the 2.0 in order to be a "Celica." I hate BMW's even though I own one (e46), and I would never own this gen Supra. Very glad to have rescued an 83 Celica Supra from a sandy rat-filled tomb - rather put 40k into it over the next decade than finance anything new.

[@ShadowFalcon]

@@t3hgir Should the TOM's Supra be the TOM's Celica then? 😉

[@chrishumble8662]

It’s not exactly slow and more affordable makes it more appealing to me

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Might not be so good long term though, with BMW's poor history with I4 engines - not sure if this "B48" has the same issues as older I4's from BMW - but I've seen too many BMW I4's fail to basic engineering flaws too quickly to trust them. The 3 litre though, does seem to have a decent rep.

[@Screaming-Trees]

Is this the B48 4 cylinder? Because if it is, there are plenty of videos out there showing that engine tuned up to 500hp without too much trouble. And I thought the whole point of a Supra was the tuning culture no? I don't know I don't own one and have no plans on one but if it is that engine it might be a pretty good option.

[@Screaming-Trees]

@@Beer_Dad1975 Yeah fair enough although the B48 has been around since at least 2014 I think so you get 10 years of data if you want. There is this guy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJWWlXl9frV_rrM He has a bunch of videos of various B48 tunes. He reckons it's good. And there are others that's just a quick search result. I'd be tempted if I could up the power to those sorts of levels for sensible money. Don't even need to go that crazy. 500hp is probably unnecessary. Could do 400 for example and at that point that's pretty good value I would think no? AGain I don't know since I don't own one and won't but it is an intriguing proposition. And if you have a Supra but don't tune it is that a bit of wasted potential?

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@Screaming-Trees Cool, definitely not saying they can't make a reliable I4, just that I'm ignorant of them - which TBF, I've mostly only dealt with older BMW's. Now if they could only make a good V8...

[@tommynobaka]

​@@Screaming-TreesB48 is a a 4 cylinder. So is the N20. Both are tuneable and reliable besides the N20 charge pipes. B48 is essentially BMW's 3SGTE. If you go down the history of the 3SGTE, you'll realize that Toyota produced it as a high performance race engine and was heavily defined for the street. Examples are the Le Man 3S, the 3S used to break the record at pikes peak that took a paved road to beat, and JGTC

[@Kopernicus67]

Not every fun car needs to have ultimate power. This is a great chassis, and the lighter engine would make it more balanced on a tight Autocross course. If you are having fun down a country road, this is still great fun. They are cheaper to insure, eat less gas, and are less expensive to buy.

[@asimmalik6378]

These B48 engines respond really well to a simple remap, much like the bigger B58. 300bhp+ seems readily achievable on them which would make it pretty rapid car as it'll likely be a little lighter than the 6 cylinder.

[@Largeone1968]

A tuned B48 is very close to a stock (euro) b58 in power and torque but….. my B58 didn’t stay stock for long 🤣

[@Largeone1968]

A tuned B48 is very close to a stock (euro) b58 in power and torque but….. my B58 didn’t stay stock for long 🤣

[@TPD]

Jay is such an outstanding presenter and such a likeable personality. He would have been a great addition to classic Top Gear. Keep up the great work man!

[@george5040]

TPD and jayemm! Should've got jay to review raz's clio!

[@jakesmith638]

Low key

[@Lukey-jy4ez]

Could see him and that Ped guy doing the new Grand Tour. Need another British guy/girl to add to the team. General reviews would be good, not sure how they would hold up on a special episode

[@Largeone1968]

You’re right about Jay being an outstanding presenter but the BBC well and truly neutered the great Rory Reid. He’s much better away from them.

[@greebj]

He's like OG top gear. The early days that built the show. before they embraced the dark side and devolved into a car themed reality drama

[@sullivanrachael]

I ❤ my 6 cylinder B58 Supra! I would humbly suggest mine has benefited from some running in. It gets smoother and more responsive over time. It’s idrive-me-mad is the most annoying feature.

[@leccy9901]

I have the 3 litre version. Its awesome. It does need modifications though, i put a kit on it, mapped it, sorted the exhaust, mapped the gearbox. I get nearly 50mpg on the motorway if i go 70, and its very fast when i put my foot down. I personally couldn't own the 4 pot, it would always be on my mind that i could have got the more powerful one. But i do get it. If you dont want your car to be so quick your always speeding, lower insurance, cheaper to buy, and you dont mind everyone saying you should have got the straight 6, its a good car.

[@josephkelly4893]

The b48 is starting to get some serious aftermarket attention, there are plenty getting around with 350-400 horsepower. Fairly highly strung in that tune though.

[@SicSemperBeats]

The issue with the 2.0 is that its not much cheaper, and its far rarer. Over here in the states you can find a 3.0 for cheaper than any 2.0.

[@cowmath77]

I was just looking at prices and yes it’s nuts, the 2.0 is selling for nearly the same price…

[@Gentleman...Driver]

Europe is different, tho. The 2.0 is much cheaper than the 3.0.

[@GF-mf7ml]

Because there's GR86 and cheaper, it make no sense to buy 2L one.

[@f.kieranfinney457]

Over here the 2L auto was the poseur car. It looks the same but is more suited to commuting or ‘flow’ roads. The ‘girlfriend’ car. They were considerably cheaper but are rare enough that that helps keep used prices up. I live in a military town and there are quite a few of them because Marines could better afford them with deployment money and then soup them up afterwards. All you see here are BRZs, Supras, Mustang GTs and Camaros. And of course lots of jacked up trucks.

[@adrianbennett3761]

If you like the looks, and I do, it’s a superb car for the money and 100kg lighter than the 3.0. Without the collaboration with BMW it wouldn’t exist at all. The lack of any issues with the car makes it even more appealing. As the sales volumes are low it will probably be appreciated and seen as more desirable in 10 years time.

[@Largeone1968]

Some of that weight saving is down to an absence of equipment. Passive dampers, manual seats being just two of them.

[@alexanderstefanov6474]

@@adrianbennett3761 Toyota has massive resources. It developed the lexus LFA, a car it lost money on, I find it hard to believe they can't develop a straight six engine themselves

[@IdiotRace]

@@alexanderstefanov6474 The issue now is that yes they can develop their own engine, but that same engine has to pass emissions everywhere in the world and with Europe tightening their regs more than anybody else they obviously saw it wasn't worth doing. The other thing is Toyota would normally use this engine in multiple different platforms again this would spread the development costs. This is part of the reason why we have the GR Yaris and also the GR Corolla for markets that the yaris isn't sold. Even though the GR Yaris is a loss leader they still thought to use the powerplant in other cars. With a twin turbo straight 6 engine, I don't think toyota have any other platforms that they would use it in as even their big JDM only sedans are either v6 or i4 hybrid and not designed for a straight 6. Same reason why Europe never got the new Nissan Z car, they just couldn't make the engine emissions compliant for the market.

[@vulekv93]

Yeah, low spec cars are always the ones we lust for lol

[@adrianbennett3761]

@@vulekv93 Agree entirely but sometimes they’re out of reach. Once you go for a 3.0 should you pay a bit more for an M2 and then a bit more again for an M3 and so on

[@realitycheck469]

I own a 22 2.0 Supra. I bought it new because I refused to pay the $5k markup over MSRP on the 3.0. Having put 38,000 trouble free miles on, I can assure you this car has way more speed and ability than 99% of drivers will ever need or could handle on the streets. If it was not my daily driver, which it is, and I wanted a track car I would get the 3.0. For those saying the Mustang V8 is priced about the same so is a “better value”, I would say the Mustang is not a better value if you value a true 2 seat sports car experience. The mustang is a great sporty coupe, but not an authentic sports car. Apples and oranges.

[@mobious501st]

@@realitycheck469 What about the Mustang GT makes it an inauthentic sports car? It’s rwd, offered with a manual, and handles well albeit with numb steering feel.

[@realitycheck469]

@@mobious501st It all depends on how one defines "sports car". If you can bring 3 of your friends along this does not fit my particular definition of a "sports car". I know people will have differing opinions. Ford created the "Pony car" category with the Mustang. As you know, the Camaro, Firebird and Challenger are also considered competitors in the "Pony car" category. Ford was trying to make a car that was stylish, sporty, affordable, compact yet practical, with better performance than other cars. It was a great idea and still is. But Ford never even called it a "sports car". And neither do I.

[@ZiggZacc]

@@mobious501st I like rally and I have never heard of a mustang winning rally races.

[@ThaDonJsuan]

@@realitycheck469 just to clarify, are you saying it must be 2seater to be a sports car? So a brz is not a sports car but a miata is?

[@realitycheck469]

Correct

[@mikeypv6]

The biggest issue with the 4cyl is the price... nearly 300hp is good enough for anyone... I would always prefer the 6cyl but i certainly dont hate the 4cyl... same as the FType Jag, so many hate the 4cyl just because the V6 and V8 exist... the more options, the better i think... just choose the one for you and let the others choose theirs

[@f.kieranfinney457]

255 isn’t ’near’ 300. Anyone can feel an extra 45hp boost.

[@jasonkang105]

Jay, I was glad to see you gave the Supra a second look. I owned the 3 litre for 2 years and it was amazing, and I suspect the 2 litre would also deliver. Cheers!

[@philiphawkins4684]

Wheels are flow formed which alot of companies like to use "flow forged" but they're not really forged they just roll the barrel and call it forged!

[@staLkerhu]

True, but theoretically it is still better than basic cast aluminium.

[@Trochanus]

I had one in this spec for 3 years, did a some roadtrips, a lot of narrow b roads... And the car was great with some break mods. Perfect for learning how to drive a sportscar.

[@JaneDoe-ft7ln]

Here in New Zealand many of our roads, even vast stretches of the national highways, are narrow and windy thanks to our hilly terrain. The 2.0 is plenty fast enough for these conditions, cheaper to insure, and more fuel efficient. The 3.0 seems like more of a dick swinging purchase so you can beat people in drag races to the next red light, or feel a false sense of confidence that it's safe to overtake people in a dangerous manner.

[@davepaturno4290]

Nothing further than the truth about driving a 3.0. It trounces the 2.0 on the track and on the street. Its power is highly addictive and well appreciated when rocketing past slow-moving vehicles on a long hill.

[@gchampi2]

4-pot Supra's have always been a bit of a secret weapon. They handle better than the 6's, due to the engine being wholly behind the front axle, and are easily modded to give Much Power!. There's a reason Toyota used the 4-banger as the basis for their Racing Supras...

[@ShadowFalcon]

I mean, the magnificent TOM's Supra in the JGTC was a 4-banger Supra. 👍

[@f.kieranfinney457]

I suspect it’s category rules making that engine choice for them.

[@ShadowFalcon]

@@f.kieranfinney457 Not really. The R33 GT-R they were racing had a 2.7 Straight-6. The reason TOM's picked the 503E, was because it was lighter than the cast iron boat anchor that was the 2JZ.

[@ShadowFalcon]

@@f.kieranfinney457 BTW, while we're on the topic of the 503E. It's not "just" a 4-banger 😉 And it's definitely not short of power. It's the engine used in Toyota's 87C and 88C Group C racers, and the Eagle HF89, and Eagle Mk III IMSA GTP racers, where it produced about 800hp. 2JZ is a fine dragster engine, or a cruiser. But if you race for Toyota, the 503E (sometimes called the 3S-GTM) is the go to answer 👌

[@simondebrun]

Also, road tax in some countries gets pretty crazy . Still got handling and looks

[@person1745]

I think this car still has a point when you compare it to the automatic GR86 in the used market. These are way closer to the GR86 in price. This car is almost better in every way compared to that car except for it’s practicality

[@enekoprins]

I own a 2022 GR86 and this is probably a good option for someone who is not comfortable with rattles, road noise, cheap plastics and basically a rather cheap feeling car. The Supra is a lot more premium.

[@TwoDollarGararge]

That's just budget car things it's built to a price point.

[@kc510]

Yes, but also has a premium price tag.

[@TrojanRabbit521]

Any old school sports car guy that the 86/BRZ are actually fantastic compared to cheap sports cars of 80/90’s. I owned 240sx and my 22 BRZ has much nicer interior and performance. Sure if you can afford a Supra or anything over $45K is going to be higher quality. Still the twins are fantastic value and I don’t understand why they or 2L Supra aren’t selling like hot cakes

[@TwoDollarGararge]

@TrojanRabbit521 I recommend the 86 to friends who want a sports car but aren't mechanically inclined or don't want something that needs work it's a joyful thing to drive hard. I like my 944 I prefer it but it's old and needy.

[@SChapps]

Semi forged or ‘flow forged/formed’ makes wheels lighter and stronger than cast wheels. But it’s a more cost effective process than typical forging

[@slacksmeridian]

I absolutely adore the styling of that supra. I think as standard its one of the best looking sports cars out there. Then with a few tweaks, like suspension and engine / exhaust mods and it just looks incredible. However the people who will appreciate this the most are not the people who can afford it off the forecourt

[@kodacv1612]

tbqh, coming with fake ricer stuff fresh out of the factory is a big no no for me

[@slacksmeridian]

@@kodacv1612 fake ricer stuff? What are you talking about?

[@kodacv1612]

@@slacksmeridian you're not a car guy aren't you?

[@slacksmeridian]

​@@kodacv1612 I'm very much a car guy, but I dont understand why you're talking about 'Fake Ricer Stuff' like modifying a car with basic improvements is 'Ricing' the car which is borderline racist and not even remotely what I'm talking about.

[@kodacv1612]

@@slacksmeridian The fact that I have to explain Racing Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement (hence fake air vents n stuff) to a "car guy" on youtube comments says alot

[@Islacaftz]

I had one for a while. Actually, it's a great good car, especially on B roads. Perfect to weight and great when pushed hard. Love these 2.0 Supras

[@mikevanblommestein5726]

It’s a lovely motor , 2L is very effective for everyday motoring

[@TJWCars]

Nice one James! Best review of yours I've seen in quite a while!

[@neblolthecarnerd]

My driving instructor wanted one of these. He didn't really care for the performance too much he was just in it because he thought it was cool. Apparently it wasn't too much more expensive to lease than the ev corsa he had at the time.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

I can believe that!

[@danielschongut]

@@JayEmmOnCars I currntly lease one Z4 G29 2.0 manual in Germany ,I pay 340 Euro a month (2022) ,40 euros more than my prevoius MX5 ND 1.5

[@jworpington]

You’re absolutely right. Down on power and only available as an automatic. Go for the 3.0 if you want a manual gearbox and a proper driver’s car.

[@lasersailor6684]

I bet the real stroke of genius with that little car was Ian’s decision to fit it with smaller wheels. It probably suits its dynamics to a tee and probably the only reason Toyota didn’t sell with that setup in the first place is they knew it would lack showroom appeal.

[@Jarmariv]

I for one love small engines and 4 cylinders I'm a big fan of 4 and 12 cylinders Everything in between, beyond and below is alright too, just love those 2

[@geraint8989]

Looks beautiful in that colour. But if the engine choice causes puzzlement, so does that private plate for a gentleman named Ian.

[@barrybritcher]

Deep french kiss. Probably runs an escort agency

[@coolpranx]

It's a shocker to say I didn't even know this version existed. I always thought they came with the B58 standard. Neat video! Edit: Although the decent performance and great gas mileage, I don't think I'd ever own the 2.0L model, especially considering the "marginal" price difference. It makes me feel like you're paying such a premium for the body. Regardless, still a great car!

[@vindevhunta4905]

Good content as usual.. This a good looking BMW..

[@MarkB-33]

😂👍

[@Sandy-oy2lr]

Even though I'm a Corvette owner, I'm not a big fan of the C8. James already tested one and it was just as I thought. Largely under developed. I'm also no fan of AFM (not in the Z06 or new ZR-1, thankfully). And a Porsche can be rather scary to own. So if anything ever happened to my old Z06, I'd seriously consider the 6 cylinder version. Because it's not always about huge top speed. Or ferocious acceleration. These days, for me, it's all about the overall driving experience. And the Supra seems to be a nice compromise of performance dynamics.

[@jdfriar]

toyota 's best race cars all have 4 cylinders. bmw makes throw away cars. lightness is better than horsepower. you should know these things.

[@topV85]

People forget the MA70 Supra came out with 2L twinturbo (1GGTE), 2.5L twinturbo (1JZ) and 3L Turbo (7M) so it's definitely in their 'roots' to have a 2L based on heritage alone.

[@dylansmit3883]

2L, yes. Mainly for Japanese tax reasons. But the Supra was never a four cylinder before this. That was the Celica's territory.

[@Over-kill1]

Funny how toyota is having major reliability issues right now after working with BMW

[@watsonanthony8438]

That’s because Toyota is shift to the turbo v4 instead of staying with their original natural V6 or V8. Look at their performance trucks and big SUVs

[@Mis73rRand0m]

V4? Please do a little actual research to understand engine platforms before spouting "facts."

[@money-timemilla8622]

Only thing I care about the Supra is that it was designed with bmw, broke my heart, people buy Toyotas because they like Japanese cars, not because they like German cars

[@markdavis69]

I bought a 2.0L supra 2 years ago like Ian. Great finance offer by Toyota.Now done 30,000miles with no issues. Fast enough for today’s roads and getting 40mpg. Constantly getting people coming up and asking about the car. Quite a rare sight on the road. Really good review and fully agree with your conclusions. If you can get afford a 3.0L buy one but you will not be short changed with a 2.0L if you do a lot of miles per year.

[@newblackdog7827]

BMW 💩!

[@volvo09]

That's excellent fuel economy. Must be a fun commuter.

[@aleksei8884]

In many countries if you go over 2 liters the taxes multiply literally tenfold, and I’ve had the pleasure to drive a 2 litre z4 bmw and it was hella fun, as I am sure this is too

[@ILoveTinfoilHats]

Not real countries

[@tizodd6]

As the owner of a '22 3.0 Premium, I don't understand the decision to make a 4 cylinder Supra. They should have just put the B48 in a higher trim GR86 imo (pretty sure that would have sold better).

[@mikeypv6]

The GR86 is also developed by Subaru so that's probably why they didn't put a BMW engine into it

[@john1703]

@@mikeypv6 And the engine is a Subaru, so again not Toyota powered.

[@nathanwhite2293]

One of those things takes a lot more engineering than the other.

[@f4tpie]

I think the lower power model makes a lot of sense- with roads as congested as they are you can’t fully explore the power anyway. If you’re always living within the first 250 horses the rest are surplus aside for very rare occasions. Maybe you’re the sort of person to drive into the continent once a year-so you want some power on occasion but for the rest of the year the fuel economy and tax savings matter more- plus you get the looks and dynamics of a sports car all year round.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

I don't think putting an I4 in an 86 would be easy

[@velocity211]

This will be the mk5 equivalent of the mk4 2jz-ge non-turbo. Good looking car and great all around, but it will be greatly overshadowed by the B58 6cyl. Unlike the 2jz-ge, which can simply be boosted and be almost on par with a 2jz-gte, the b48 mk5 is down 2 cylinders. So, b48/B58 mk5 has even a bigger gap than the 2jz-ge and 2jz-gte mk4.

[@Erebus-PCFX]

You could say that this version should be named "Celica Supra".

[@WhiteMouse77]

...or simply Celica which it actually is...

[@burningknuckle26]

@@WhiteMouse77 its not tho

[@Tdfries]

@@burningknuckle26 Celica Supra was the 6 cylinder version of the Celica. The 4 cylinder Celica was just called Celica.

[@ShadowFalcon]

Should the TOM's Supra also be called "Celica Supra" then? Considering that was also a 4-cylinder 😉

[@LOLA6ifyable]

I liked it since Day 1. I don't care if it's BMW part , it's still Toyota Calibration and tuning , both the 3.0 and 2.0. The 2.0 can be viewed as a Nice upgrade over a GR86 , same idea - Small ,Light, nimble RWD sports car but with Turbo on both version. What's not to like? and the 3.0 is so Tuneable - that B58 is a Gem , we need to thank Toyota it even exists in a world going towards EV Crossovers , The Mk IV will always be a legend , but the V is Brilliant , love it!

[@keithjackson4985]

We own the 6 cylinder. We like it, but it is far from just being a great car. It's a good sports car, it's not a great car!

[@manuocio]

Like what petrolheads thinks about z4. This is the point

[@TwoDollarGararge]

Atleast it was made that's been most enthiast cars since 2012 meh.

[@bobphillips2188]

Tell me, young James, why any car needs 'hill hold', any time? An auto essentially has it, er, automatically, while a manual has it via the clutch, control thereof. I appreciate that many numpties have not the wit to know how cars work, and some seem borderline terrified of 'clutch control'. But, derr, clutch control; it is what it says. Put car in first with foot on footbrake, find the bite, move foot to throttle. Bingo. While an auto box has Park, and even without the inherent lock within Park, i.e., Drive, there should easily be enough 'hold' to enable brake pedal to throttle movement before any backward movement. Except on the steepest hill start, hill hold is an affront to anyone who can actually drive (well, or well enough). Nuff said.

[@UnclaimedClock]

I wanted a Supra, couldn't afford the proper 6 cylinder so didn't see the point. Got a GR86 instead.

[@Dragon228833]

Here in the us the supra isn’t forgotten. I see one almost everyday and its a guarantee that ill see one on the weekend

[@WhiteMouse77]

The only problem is they call it Supra. It makes expectations to which this machine wasn't engineered at all. See it as GT turbo version of Toyota GR86 technically outsourced from BMW. And That's it. If Toyota intentioned bringing back Supra what they should have done is to take Lexus LC500 V8, throw all unnecessary comfort, isolation and gadgets away, simplify chassis into electronics-free classic construction, replace automatic gearbox with proper stick shift and modernise original Supra design over it..... it would go over 300kph and People would run on dealerships for getting one! If you add big turbo to GR86 and upgrade everything accordingly what you end up with is clone of this (?Supra?) which some superficial marketers incorrectly decided to be sold as Supra.... They should have been calling it Celica, price it as Celica and eeeeverything would be just fine....

[@Tacko14]

I'm actually a bit miffed about that parking sensor thing. My old cars, I never needed them. Then I got a '00 Merc C estate. Boy, did I ever appreciate them being on there! Couldn't see a ruddy thing while parking. Then I had a drive in a Golf IV estate and realised we had lost something. Why do we accept cars that are safer when you get hit, but are more likely to get hit in? Modern cars, cyclist and pedestrians are completely hidden behind the A-pillars. 3/4 back, you can't see a thing because of some stylish notch in the reardoor window. Idiots. It's all about occupant safety, not about people-outside-the-car safety. I don't need rollcage safety if I don't roll it in the first place. And you know what? I never did, nor do I plan to. Safety is not just about me surviving a crash but also about not killing that dear old mum crossing the street. Sorry for the rant. I want slimmer A and C-pillars!

[@davepaturno4290]

Then don't buy a McLaren!😂

[@murdoch9106]

Think this looks much better than the concept and I have been a bit obsessed over these since they came out, and if people can get 500 - 600 and 700+ hp out of the 6 pot, they can probably get some good power out of this too if need be, but I'd be happy with 255 hp I think! It looked from the first test drives even like it was a car with very nice manners. What I find funny is that it looks very big but in reality apparently its not, I have not gotten to see one in real life sadly... I like a bit of sidewall as well, this car looks very good!

[@alexanderstefanov6474]

What happens when people who though they bought a Toyota start getting BMW problems after a few years?

[@dominicrusho]

They sit back, relax, and enjoy the 10 year warranty.

[@alexanderstefanov6474]

@@dominicrusho hopefully Toyota had lots of input on the quality control and parts suppliers, as well as the engine, cos if it was left to the modern incarnation of BMW, I'd give it wide berth. I know magna Steyr are capable of amazing build quality (G wagon) but let's not forget they also built Euro spec Chryslers which were abysmal

[@sheilamorrison1954]

I used to easily get 40mpg on my b58 (tuned) on a cruise. The economy isn't really an argument between them at all. My average over 10k was 30 and that was with PLENTY of fun flat foot stuff.

[@JamaicanMeCrazy980]

Ya know...i get it. If you do plow through the miles, the 2.0 makes sense. If the chassis is sorted and it drives great then why not? If it was only your weekend bomber then yeah the 3.0 makes sense. The way insurance is and fuel costs are it can get very expensive. I admit only 250~ from the smaller engine is a little sad. 280-300 should have been the aim.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

Would have been too close on paper to the 3.0 with 300 horses

[@JamaicanMeCrazy980]

@@JayEmmOnCars Ah fair enough. I guess at that point what is the 3.0 competing against in the market? M240/M440? Can't imagine it would be a full fat M4. Itd need the power to be up there with the M cars at that point which obviously would make 290-300PS 2.0 more viable.

[@hamstirrer6882]

Not as bad as a 4 cylinder AMG, the jump from V8 to 4 cylinder is much greater than I6 to I4

[@MihaelTurina]

The point of the Supra is that it has an i6. If you want a 4 cylinder, buy the GR86, it's cheaper, sportier, and actually Japanese.

[@AntoniusTyas]

It was a 4cyl Supra that actually brought motorsport credentials to Supra, though.

[@MihaelTurina]

@@AntoniusTyas I know, the one with a modified 3S-GTE if I remember correctly, but that doesn't matter when you're buying the car. It's just a bit of cool trivia. That 4 cylinder may have produced insane power, but I can't imagine it lasted more than a few races, unlike the 2JZ-GTE, which was bulletproof. But if we talk about today, the production B48 is just weaker than the B58, and it's not interesting in any way. The Supra (that you can buy) isn't and never was meant to be a track weapon, it's basically a grand tourer, so having a heavier and "less efficient" i6 isn't a bad thing. It's smoother and makes more torque, which is what fits the Supra.

[@bmwman1981]

It’s the equivalent of buying a new poverty spec boxster completely pointless

[@calebwany8422]

Bro my mind is blown

[@cameronhill5220]

@@AntoniusTyasand BMW race cars are mostly V8s but everyone knows an inline 6 is the iconic BMW engine

[@AndrewFesperman]

I mean it is still as fast as a stock 1998 Toyota Supra Turbo and insurance in EU / UK being based on engine displacement can mean a big difference in cost. It still looks great.

[@painpals1]

People get (extremely) bent out of shape that toyota called it a supra and thats a shame, it's genuinely a good car on its own merit.

[@Philippinesbound42]

It’s garbage

[@TwoDollarGararge]

​@Philippinesbound42 how so rwd 2 seater sports coupe when it's an ev or 3 cylinder hybrid you will want this back

[@sammoon7897]

​@@Philippinesbound42Let me guess, you've never driven it and couldn't afford it anyway?

[@teddysadcat]

It really is, just that it should be called a 2000GT imo, even the promo material shows both cars together, a big lumbering cruiser tgat's worthy of the Supra name it isn't

[@newblackdog7827]

NOT a Toyota & NOT a Supra! BMW 💩with a Toyota badge on! 😡

[@richardjones38]

Semi-forged wheels. The hub and spoked are cast, but not with anything recognisable as a rim. Instead the casting has a very chunky, solid ring of aluminium where the rim should be. This is then forged into a rim shape via a metal spinning process. One advantage is that many different widths and offsets can be made from the same casting with little or no different tooling needed. It's a process widely used by Rotiform, Braid, etc

[@edmontontangobar4991]

Still a head-scratcher for me that with Toyota's technical might they rebodied a BMW.

[@larssonk22]

Personally didn't mind that it was going to be a collab provided it looked like the concept car, but alas it didn't. That concept car looked magnificent!

[@ianedmonds9191]

It does definitely remind me of the E86.

[@SandStormPower]

Because of high taxes on some countries, like mine, these cars actually make sense.

[@jovialgent9963]

A car that looks that good deserves more than a 4 cylinder, sorry just my opinion!!

[@kevinparker461]

Just my opinion, its pig ugly!!

[@staLkerhu]

Not just yours.

[@ProjectDefi]

mate it still looks cool. as a car guy im happy behind a wheel with the pedal mashed down no matter how fast the car is. i have owned shit boxes and 1100hp trackhawks

[@nebwastaken]

least it looks nice

[@resnonverba137]

Debatable. I'd take the Z4 any day of the week.

[@No_Use_For_A_Name1981]

Ive had mine for a year, and I love it. I could have bought the 3l, but after driving both, the 2l was more appealing. Why? Driving characteristics day to day, i could tell the 2 was feeling more enjoyable on it's test drive. I felt like i needed to be more gingerly on the 3. It could be the weight difference, it could be the mechanical diff on the 2, i don't know. Yes, bragging rights for the 3l. But at a 4.5 second 0-60 on the 2, straight line is PLENTY fun. In curves and chicanes, again it shines. Turn off TC and the back gets loose if you want. Its a plain awesome handling, fun car. Ive also achieved 40mpg highway. I didnt care about the insurance difference, or the price difference, because it wasn't huge. I'd like challenge anyone to drive either one, and buy the one you like the best. But dont let your ego in on the liters of the engine.

[@y00h000]

Sorry but the 2.0 Soup is an abomination that shouldn’t exist 😢

[@CarsofGlasgow]

Great video, I was considering a Supra before opting for the Lexus LC

[@sleepless3y3s]

Sorry it's not a Toyota Supra. It's still a BMW with a Toyota badge . If it's was a 2JZ then it's worthy to hold the Supra badge.

[@DjNikGnashers]

Badge snob. What is wrong with a BMW ?

[@cj09beira]

@@DjNikGnashers nothing, it just isn't a supra.

[@DjNikGnashers]

@@cj09beira Toyota helped develop the engine, so that is half Toyota. 2JZ is a great engine of course, but it's 25 year old technology, and times move on, you still stuck in the 90's fella.

[@stevegonzales527]

Drove both 6 cyl and 4 cyl when they were prototypes when I worked with BMWs prototypes. Don’t knock the the 4cyl it’s actually way better in the canyons with lots of twists and turns

[@C4S911]

Honestly companies don’t make cars like how they use to. Where cars are made and exclusively for their brand.

[@harryspeakup8452]

What era are you thinking of? Pre-WW2?? All through the '60s, '70s, 80s, 90s and 00's, sharing of entire platforms, engines, transmissions, suspension, all the way down to minor component sharing has been normal and mainstream. Go and look more closely at the history of the motor industry. Especially for low-volume sports cars.

[@C4S911]

@@harryspeakup8452 you are completely missing the point but it’s ok

[@rafallo1333]

​@@C4S911actually he's right and it's you who's missing the point living in some fantasy nostalgia world. Get back to reality.

[@C4S911]

@@rafallo1333 triggered off my opinion I see. Glad to know 2 sentences did that for you. People like you on social media are a joke. You would think you could have asked me to explain further but you rather be brash and insulting than have a conversation. 🥱🤧🥱

[@dawn_h6]

Semi forged wheels are when the face is cast and the barrel is forged from that.

[@qwerty69600]

The B58 will also return over 40mpg easily on a motorway run and is miles quicker and sounds better. The 2.0 is just pointless.

[@DjNikGnashers]

I agree.

[@mistermanji]

The 2.0L engine available in many Japanese cars had to do originally with the tax laws on engine size. I think Italy had(has?) similar regulations, leading to the Ferrari 208, among others.

[@3ducs]

Massive A-pillar and huge TV. No thanks. And an automatic?! Jesus wept.

[@harryspeakup8452]

The considerable majority of new-car buyers, even new sports-car buyers, disagree with you - buyers have spoken, and two-pedal cars is what they want now

[@3ducs]

@@harryspeakup8452 Why should I care what other people think? My Jaguar XJ8 VDP has two pedals, the right solution for that car, a sporting car should have three pedals. Like my Jaguar F-Type.

[@3ducs]

@Roadrunner_1000 Do you speak for the others? Or just yourself? I speak for myself, but perhaps you, as representative of the others, wishes to ban my speech.

[@bertiebasset1752]

Perfect 50/50 weight ratio(?), designed for B road driving unlike the heavier more grunty 3 litre version. So different cars for different needs.

[@Matt-il8zz]

As pointless as a 4-cylinder Mustang.

[@olino.3917]

I'd just like to chime in and say that this makes a lot of sense in the markets where emission regulations are still based on fixed displacement sizes, and where you end up x10 your insurance payments just because you have a 3.0L engine.

[@capn_shawn]

“Calibration” is not Engineering. It’s a BMW… don’t care who set the spring rates

[@SheerHippo]

You must not have a good grasp on what engineering is then. Calibration is a huge part of the discipline of engineering and is not nearly as trivial as you are making it out to be.

[@ulisesavila2879]

It is, because one MUST have to take in consideration chassis dinamics.

[@capn_shawn]

HaHa! without getting into a flex match about engineering and calibration, both of which I have 30 years direct paid experience in. Let me just ask: When you add coil-over's, boost maps, larger inter-coolers, different wheels and tires and roll-bars... does it cease to be a Toyota product? Doing this removes the parts that Toyota claims to have "calibrated", so technically all you have left is BMW hardware with either "BMW" or the roundel imprinted on every single part on the car. My point is this: you can "calibrate" all you want, but after just a few miles the rubber and shocks are wore out and those factory calibrations are void if not completely replaced with aftermarket hop-up's. Do you really want to spend good money on a BMW or a Toyota? I'm not saying one is better than the other, I've owned both (as well as much worse), but the used market makes a big distinction between prices each brings and I can assure you that the price for MKV Supras will follow the BMW trajectory and not the Toyota Supra MKIV trajectory. You want to hop up a BMW, buy a BMW and save the $$

[@SheerHippo]

@@capn_shawn What on earth are you talking about? You're getting all wrapped up in some unrelated philosophical argument. In any case, "BMW" doesn't make a vehicle that competes directly with the Supra. There's a reason why there is no Z4 coupe. This offering from Toyota is effectively that.

[@capn_shawn]

@@SheerHippo a BMW by any other name…

[@craigpavia8943]

JAY!!!! #1. Cardinal Sin: visibility in a sports car; that hood (bonnet) is absurd, I sat in one and it reminded me of a Miami Vice speed boat. #2. 4 cylinder with a slushbox auto (yes it's a good one) but a manual is an option???? #3. It's not just one or two fake vents...it's like they wanted to crush the competition at GM; looks like a Nascar with sticker'd headlights. Toyota ALWAYS just "misses the mark." I'm in the market and I need 2+2 but the GR86 has the interior out of a '89 Camry; it made the MX5 look like an Audi.

[@TwoDollarGararge]

That's most modern cars the visibility is crap unless your in a truck or full sized suv.

[@DMR777-p5o]

excellent balanced review

[@Lolingtoner]

41mpg is 5,7L/100km, that's insane for a car with this much power

[@krlos_amg]

This vid just appeared to me on "you may like"... I sure did. You convinced me to buy a Supra today lol (at least in Gt7...)

[@Angrynood]

Best Motoring did a comparison when the Supra Mk5 first came out with hirh engine trims. They had a really good analysis from a more "spirited driving" perspective.

[@deaks25]

I haven't driven either version of the new Supra, but a car like this I generally classify it as one of those that having the 'lesser' model is better than just talking about it but actually never doing it because you'd only accept the better one. The owner can say he's had a Mk 5 Supra, and that is way cooler than any boring, soulless EuroBox. Plus, viewed from upgrading from a BRZ, the 2.0l Supra sounds like a great step up! I remember Top Gear Magazine doing a piece on the Focus RS and Mustang 2.3l as both were about the same price so were asking which was better, and when it came to cool factor, the Mustang driver pointed out the Focus you have to explain, but for the Mustang, all you had to say was "I drive a Mustang". Even the Focus driver conceded that point, because a Mustang is still cool, even with a lesser engine. Sure the 5.0l is the REALLY cool one, but any Mustang is still a head-turner, and I think the same with the Supra. Yes you want the fire-breathing 3.0l 6 cylinder, but the 2.0l is still going to turn heads as it drives past or sat in a car park.

[@lrod312]

I guess this is the “SZ” trim of Mk V Supra. The Mk IV Supra had 4 (or 5 depending on who you ask) the SZ which was the base trim, the SZ-R which was the mid-level trim (but had the same engine) and the RZ which is had the 2JZ-GTE we know and love. The former had the weaker 2JZ-GE which was in 3 sub-trims. The difference was in the transmission. 5 spd, 6 spd, or automatic.