I Found 2 Hi3 Veterans to Talk About Our Potential End Game Meta

[@IyoXS]

Also guys, I am very well aware of the Zhu Yuan weapon change/DPS comparison since the making of this video. While I don't know/have the combo numbers themselves, I am still interested to learn how much a difference the changes make using my own combos (if at all). No matter how we spin it, this is a big positive for all Zhu Yuan havers tho. Each Engine just slightly alters the way you'll approach her combos so it's all gravy.

[@Casual233]

Advance combo with negative edging with a bit of touch of kara cancelling

[@jethbodi4648]

The difference without her signature w- engine. You need to build stacks vs her sig that you can pop all the damage all at once without worrying any set up just her bullets and crit buff from ex skills.

[@Wyqkrn]

Starlight Engine needs quick assists, but you should be doing those anyways since it gives her ammo as well

[@DjBlaze3d]

What is the Zhu Yuan engine change?

[@SerraAbyssAlisaris]

Zhu Yuan Wengine will be the Exception not the Rule.

[@imtheinfamous]

38:46 "our only healer is a bangboo" i love the little avocado gremlin, so true though 😂

[@averagejohn2786]

I'm gonna be real, I-I sometimes negative edge to your videos 😳

[@yuorion3056]

make sure you kara cancel right before the point of no return to have infinite uptime

[@jilvermazariegos]

LMFAO

[@smittywababla]

What?

[@Alecajuice]

This is funnier than all of the other negative edging comments combined

[@therealjome]

Is someone capable of understanding this dialect and willing to explain it thoroughly to me?

[@famimame]

HI3rd you absolutely need not only the weapon, but the stigmata as well. In ZZZ I have yet to feel the need for signature weapon, I've pulled Ellen and Zhu Yuan without their weapon.

[@GryphonTooth]

Also keep in mind, characters are at 100% rate up in HI3 so Hoyo needed to monetize gear. The 50/50 in ZZZ with lower pity count really incentivises spending when you lose.

[@MrGoodra17]

You don't always need stigmata though unless you're aiming for Nirvana. I've been clapping others in Red Lotus with my 2/4 s0 Luna and Weapon+g4 s0 Hare

[@dorvilmoi599]

You can pretty much do with f2p stigma the only thing you really need is the signature weapon

[@Juimimi]

​@@GryphonTooth It doesn't excuse needing 3 different stigmatas + the signature weapon to compete. I'm really glad they moved away from the HI3rd monetization in their other games. Plus, the fact that it had competitive leaderboards in the only game mode where you could get crystals in the end game was extremely predatory and overall atrocious. This is a perspective from someone that quit when the infamous global anniversary controversy happened so I don't know if it changed but I doubt it got better regardless.

[@diazpramudita5165]

​@@JuimimiIt's still shit 😂.

[@iamkurogane]

Zhu Yuan is a great example of a character who doesn’t really NEED her weapon. In fact I’d go as far to say her M1 makes her feel a lot more complete than her weapon. Having the quick reload that lets you go to town on the bosses is so much fun

[@IyoXS]

This falls under Jay's own theory that he describes in the video where he caught some flack for recommending a particular character's ascensions over the weapon. haha I can agree for sure.

[@tamho6202]

Does her M1 really worth it in ur opinion? As i see on Prydwen the damage calculator of M1 doesnt increase, compare to her M0

[@anonymoususerhere]

As someone who has Yuan at M1 and her W-Engine, I 100% agree. With her M1, she's sooooo much better. Prior to getting her M1 and just having her W-Engine, I was severely disappointed at how mid her weapon is.

[@iamkurogane]

@@tamho6202 imo it’s a night and day difference. There’s literally no point you’ll run out of shots in a boss stun phase. Without the M1 you need to manage a lot of things like doing like timing EXs and autos to make sure you have full shells at the start of every stun window. The M1 just smoothens all that out and basically gives you infinite ammo with Chains and Ultimates. I’ve been running Shiyu 10 Part 1 as a test and I’m already 1 entire phase faster because of the higher uptime on my the shotgun shells. If you can pull off the switch with Nicole to fire her EX once extra during stun then the M1’s extra shells really come in clutch. Also it syncs really well with Brimstone and Starlight because of the longer DPS window M1 gives you. If you’re thinking Sig or M1, I’m super glad I went with M1.

[@iamkurogane]

@@IyoXS ZY and Doggo are exceptions. That said I 100% agree with the philosophy of needing Sigs to complete the characters. We’ll see this more with Qingyi and Jane

[@REISGaming24]

Hey Iyo, XS, this video is really great to see. I've also noticed this very quickly. Lv 55 in ZZZ. Posted a few vids with Jane, she's completely ridiculous. Thanks for putting this one out. Sorry I haven't found this stuff from you sooner.

[@Lonnh]

I'm more inclined to think ZZZ wengines are more similar to ligth cones in HSR than weapons in hi3, especially so after Zhu's release, but I think so even with like Ellen. In HSR some characters have great f2p options like Fall of an Aeon while others can see up to 30% dmg increase with their sig. The difference though is how, from what I've seen from hi3, the weapons there literally changes how you play a character, while ZZZ mostly just increases/decreases your dmg. Notable outlier is nekomiyas sig emphasizing giving your enemies backshots, but that's something already present in her kit aswell. In her example specifically star light engine has the exact same condition as her passive, making it almost a 4 star sig just giving you less dmg than with the 5 star. Also the fact units like lycaon don't even have their sig as bis suggests it isn't at the level of hi3. For Ellen, while there is a big dmg difference between starlight engine and her sig, the difference in gameplay is minimal with the only difference being pure dmg. Her kit isn't locked behind her sig at all, which is what was described in hi3. It enables the dmg ceiling to go crazy like HSR however, but in both those games you can also just use a f2p option and still clear with time to spare once you've invested enough. I agree in the sentiment that sigs will be an important part of ZZZ, and that sigs are relevant when tiering different characters. For instance, with Ellen and Zhu you should look at both their dmg ceilings, i.e with their sig, and how big of a difference the sig will make. The fact that Ellen gets an insane boost from her sig should be accounted for, but also the fact that Zhu might not even need a sig to access her dmg potential is an equally valuable trait when ranking characters.

[@KilerPlays]

Amazing vid Iyo, i dont think they will make zzz as much weapon demending as HI3, but still, great insight, thanks jay and rehoo as well, im excited for the future of ZZZ for sure ❤

[@poliwb1]

i dont think this will happen. i think they're focus is making you pull more characters by forcing the faction bonuses. W-engines are pretty much reusable for other characters unlike HI3. You think Ellen's engine is not gonna be good for Miyabi??? how about Qingyi using Anby's weapon? or Soldier 11's weapon being good for almost any DPS. i think the focus later will be on matching factions, element, and types. forcing you to get more characters to type match, or element match, or future characters being locked into specific comps. forcing you to get that spefic character set. clear example is Zhu yuan, who gets damage amp on stunned targets, while her core passive requires a support character. so if you want to play her, you need ZY, stun, sup. and then the stun and sup core passives should also be activated. the team comp meta also applies to bangboos skill B.

[@poliwb1]

p.s. Jayniro and Rehoo made me update ng HI3. lmao.

[@yuulb.alwright]

in my opinion, it will happen, just not as much as hi3. What i mean is that they will also put a lot of emphasis on faction bonuses as much as weapon

[@Zarozian]

Yeah I think so too

[@poliwb1]

also, i see something like this: they're releasing characters on exact the same element/position to make W-engines cross compatible with each other.. example with Qinyi's release, Electric/Stun, her S-rank W-engine will allow to push A-rank Anby's power higher.. while Anby's A-rank W-engine allow you to still play Qingyi F2P.. Exactly the same for Piper (Physical/Anomaly) into Jane Doe.. they're W-engines can be used for each other to allow A-ranks to become even stronger, or allow S-ranks to be played F2P. Of course, signatures will still likely be BIS. but they're not forcing you to get them like in HI3, where your Valkyrie is likely a display barbie doll if you dont get her Weapom, and 3 stigs all from gacha.

[@tactaillike]

Having future W-engines become that integral to characters' kits while still not being 100% guaranteed on their banners sounds predatory on another level like if HI3 had a 75/25 on the weapon banners that would be stupid AF (same for 50/50 considering you really don't get that many crystals per patch)

[@jilvermazariegos]

Honestly i really hope that the signature weapons are not required especially since it is not guaranteed... I think if content is impossible to beat without signature especially in the first year of the game... I'm sorry but this is grounds for actually quitting ZZZ.

[@smittywababla]

Thank God it's not, at least so far

[@narrrrr6805]

It not impossible, it just harder (take more investment and min max)

[@GryphonTooth]

I wouldn't worry about it, just pull the characters you want. Even if Shiyu Defense becomes impossible to S-rank without sig weapons in a year, does that really matter? Like all other Hoyo games, it will be extremely easy to get 75-85% of the gems from endgame modes. Are you really going to spend almost a whole character's worth of gems just to make a few characters a bit stronger, so you can maybe get another 60-120 gems every other week? I'll probably wait at least a year before pulling W-engines, since I'll get bored of the game without new characters to keep the gameplay/teambuilding interesting.

[@Rinkha_AMVs]

Hey Iyo, I think u should give black desert online a try. It’s an mmorpg, but it actually has a LOT of fighting game terms and combos. On top of that it has open world PvP and endless grinding with a fun open world. The combat imo is peak and the PvP is fun once u catch up to the gear curve. And even if u don’t u have gear balanced arenas. If ever u see this comment, I think u you have a blast labbing combos and doing combo resets. It’s got frontal guards, super armor, s, floats, stiffs, stuns, knockdown, knockback, etc. any fighting game term u might want, bdo has. While having a key combo format where certain abilities flow into others faster if u do certain inputs. Basically a fighting game enjoyer’s wet dream if u also like mmorpgs and PvP. If ever u start covering the game in any way, I think the space would love a creator like u in it.

[@tweezy5804]

I think this game is going to be just like wuwa, star rail , whatever, there are some characters like ellen where there limited weapon does 20 to 25% better, those weapons are a must for the character. Some are only going to do 5% to 10% better like zhu yuan. Just like star rail , acheron needs hers, firefly doesn't, wuwa - jiyan wants his weapon, changli really doesn't matter. Its all the same and there are countless examples. Kinda what that one guy was stating , how there are nuance takes and of course some characters really prefer it. Soo far tho for zzz, it is a good sign that at least zu doesnt need hers..Nice vid!

[@hndkp.]

15:56 "if you dont have the character with their weapon, they are effectively useless" the lantern example here because her weapon gives 2 whole new passives for her that provide extra resource that let her do faster rotation, not just stats. 16:45 thelema sig. weap provide time frozen domain that basically let u cheat the system 25:41 resource are always hard for these games at the start, its nothing new 33:14 honkai had this with shield weather where enemies take less dmg when their shield/armor is unbroken, then take more when broken. genshin also had this in the early boss event, but they have shifted to buffing a certain reaction or element instead, and as far as i know they have never done it with any of the abyss weather whether in genshin or star rail. and my take in this is that they have acknowledged nerfing something is not a good way to implement a challenge, especially in their main game mode. and ur own point about a potential future where enemies only weak to specific element makes it horizontal investment better than vertical lol. the rest of the talk about w-engine is basically just stat stick and nowhere near to honkai signature gear level. i dont roll for ellen, but i think the part about her w-engine is probably exaggerated because people are still in early game phase with very limited access to crit rate stat so those extra crit rate early on "feels very noticeable". another interesting thing in zzz is the in-combat %atk buff that implemented differently than all hoyo previous games, that a lot of people are probably unaware and thus underestimating starlight engine and brimstone.

[@grayrest]

I quit HI3 with the launch of 2.0 (planned to move to WW or ZZZ) but I spent two years before that in global NA Nirvana. The ZZZ w-engine system is not at all the same as HI3 where you literally can't complete rotations (e.g. PE knight) without the signature. The two weapons we've seen so far are very much in line with GI/HSR signatures. I would not be surprised if we got HSR Acheron/Topaz type signatures where they're pretty important but not critical a la HI3. I do expect the ZZZ endgame to progress to a HI3 weather system as the roster expands over the course of the year (specifically elements but not status). It's very much in hoyo's interest to force a wider roster than GI, particularly with 3 agent comps.

[@the_knut]

Not a single W-Engine has made me think of HI3rd weapons. To be clear for those reading this that have not played HI3rd. Weapons in that game truly are a part of that characters kit. This stems from weapon actives initially being an additional 'skill' players can use on their character, later being made into active and passive buffs to the character's core gameplay. If these W-Engines were in the trend of HI3, Zhu Yuan's W-Engine would give her Enhanced Shotshells, at the very least. HI3 signatures literally name their intended character in their ability, giving special powerful bonuses to that battlesuit alone.

[@samsan4644]

weapon is a trap. knowing Mihoyo, weapon WILL definitely be essential to complete ALL endgame stages which would only account for like 2-3 pulls. BUT the thing is, even with those weapon 3-4 patches in the future, it would still not be enough to complete all contents anyway. The Meta WILL constantly be changing, and so are those endgame stages. This is designed so you need to constantly pull for new characters and their weapon. You just have to ignore those few 100 polychroms and ya'll be fine.

[@rurarararagi3394]

This is nonsense and literaly not true in either Genshin or HSR. You can easily get 36* in abyss and 10 cycles MOC. Even though HSR got more powercreep PF is far more about having the flavor of the month team.

[@sehrish1837]

sounds more like they're talking about hi3rd than hsr and Genshin bro ^^^^

[@BrianCarreraShaw]

I think ZZZ eipl branch out into a wide spectrum of slow characters mixing with super fast ones. When Soukoku plants her paddle and you swap in the wolf, cat or ellen to do their fast attacks, it feels very satisfying. If Mihoyo develops on this then its almost liek were controlling 3 characters in one go. I remember Aponia feeling so clunky, but having her float abovebyou doing big po samage while youre using your onfield was interestng and fun. Rina kinda feels this way too in ZZZ.

[@ItsWoop]

I appreciate the video Iyo, you replied to me and said you'd drop this to explain the w-engine take more after Evo. I still think I disagree. Some of the reasons and things yall brought up even make me feel stronger about not feeling like I need to pull w-engines. If you do actually read this comment, some points: Element typing being important is a reason in favor of horizontal investment. ZZZ seems to focus on it a lot (though not as much as you all mentioned for HI3). Element weaknesses/reses, the huge late game mode buffs to certain elements, and element specific shields that otherwise turn enemies into damage sponges if you lack the the correct element damage. EX: someone would be better off pulling for Ellen and ZhuYuan than Ellen and her W-engine as using an ether DPS instead of another element is a larger damage boost in lategame than Ellen's w-engine is for herself. HI3 does do locked character passives behind weapons, but ZZZ is the literal opposite. ZZZ locks them behind teammates. For example, if you want to run Nicole with ZhuYuan, then the only stunner that gets their additional ability this patch is Anby (much worse than the S stunners). Players will want to pull for a stunner that can slot into the team and work at max potential (if Lycaon can't activate his passive, his team deals 19% less damage to stunned enemies). In comparison, w-engines (known and leaked) are all just stat sticks still. Just like HSR where the closest LC to a character passive is maybe Aventurine. There's nothing close to a time slow down mentioned in the vid. Late game difficulty won't be known until like patch 1.3 or 1.4. HSR and Genshin were the same thing where low spenders/F2P can't clear for several patches at the beginning. It takes 3 months at max rank to just level 6 units in ZZZ to max, not including drives. Late game will largely be time gated. Spenders/whales can push to clear early, in which case they will definitely want w-engines, but average meta players will just need to be patient. Bangboos probably won't be like elves because (afaik) you can't pay for bangboos and it's too slow to get them naturally. Lastly, I think end game is more likely to be like HSR than HI3 (PvP). Mihoyo has removed all PVP elements from their games, as they make more money from casuals than hardcore players now. Their solution is to have multiple end game modes that require horizontal investment from players. First, HSR got 3 end game modes requiring different types of characters and then Genshin finally got theater (which is as horizontal focused as you can possibly get). ZZZ has 2 additional circles/categories in the floor selection menu of shiyu which I'm guessing will be different modes that require different types of units.

[@NewWave3313]

Just a quick opinion as someone who’s played Honkai Impact since it’s pre-launch, 7 or so years ago, I’m glad Hoyo games after HI3 didn’t adapt the absolute need for gear. Honkai Impact has changed so much but the gear system is still so so gacha dependant. They tried to introduce crafted gear but it’s all bad. They made it harder to even level up your gear in Part 2 now. It’s rough. They seemed to just throw Part 1 under the bus. I haven’t heard many happy opinions of what they’ve done with Part 2 characters and gearing. At the very least, I’m happy the other Hoyo games didn’t go this route.

[@emiya1986]

3:25 "Alleeeluuuia! Alleeeluuuia!" ;D It reminds me of a scene from "Bruce Almighty" where Morgan Freeman said that everyone just adapted to the dim light) The bottom line is that we have a similar system in Star Rail: Erudition is not used openly against bosses and so on. I don't think that miHoYo will make it difficult for all players, but they said something about thinking about it for those who want to. It might be a good option to add another level of difficulty, where, for example, opponents began to parry or something like that. It would also be possible to add battle settings where you could disable hints - if people want to be punished, then why not give them that

[@lemonchanisrandom1531]

💀 the way the sun is in his hair. I thought he had his hair like death kid.

[@PaulHofreiter]

The gacha system in ZZZ doesn’t show that we will have an HI3 style gear system. Combat or whatever doesn’t matter at all. The currency income and banner mechanics are Genshin style (like HSR) whereas HI3 was set up entirely differently so I see no reason that weapon will be required in ZZZ on the same level that HI3 required. PvP leaderboards are also not present in ZZZ - all of these things affect the type of player they cater to and what they think players are willing to spend. I just don’t see ZZZ as being similar to HI3 other than the surface level (which doesn’t affect monetization models).

[@NCG420]

This is late but For me it depends on the weapon how much value are you getting? and what are my other choices? and how much do I love the character? are there other characters that I want In future? in ZZZ Starlight Engine and Brimstone are not that far off the limited weapons we have so far so I'm good there, I love Ellen and her weapon gives so much value in the crit rate area, 44% crit rate if you play her right and since I'm skipping the next couple patches this is a must. I think it just depends on you and your account, weapons are worth to get BUT they are not worth the gamble depending on the game in HSR its a nope the standard lightcones are not that good besides Bronya's but after getting one or maybe two copies of it you don't need it anymore, unless you use the standard character but after getting one copy of the LC its not worth anymore. In ZZZ I think its worth because the standard weapons are so good and are not that off from the limited ones so if you lose the 75/25 its not a full lost cause, example would be my little brother I did 20 pulls on his account at 0 pity on Zhu weapon banner and lost the 75/25 but it was to solider 11 weapon so it was worth cause it was early, not that far off Zhu main, and my brother has and uses solider 11. In WuWu its worth cause its 100% and even if it wasnt and it was a 75/25 it would still be worth is because the standard weapons are really good. TDLR It just depends on your account and what you enjoy if you are like me and pulling 1 character and skipping everyone else then go for it, if you are pulling a fair amount of characters then don't pull, if you are kinda in the middle just see if you have anything else and how much you love the character, there is not really a right or wrong answer on pulling weapons just depends on you and your account state.

[@horriblepizza4647]

I totally agree with Soldier 11 being more hype than Ellen. I have the exact same 300 dilemma you had, except I actually have Brimstone, so I'm actually leaning toward Soldier 11, especially considering I'm using Ellen with Anby and Rina atm and really enjoying the combos.

[@wmedo59]

I don’t have any sig weapon on HSR and I easily clear every end game content. And the situation is the same in Genshin.

[@kiyonobu2833]

But his point is that ZZZ is following HI3's footsteps in terms of its weapons. Where in Hi3 your character is missing a huge part of their kit when you don't have it. Hopefully ZZZ doesn't go that route because it will become much more pay2win to consistently win the endgame.

[@MrDisphoric]

And that's dope, one of the good parts of Genshin and HSR... But that is the exception not the norm. Characters needing their weapons to feel complete, or even be playable, is very much the standard practice for a lot of gachas.

[@tintedplot96]

Well, as long as you properly goober cancel all your moves, it’ll be F2P friendly and you should be able to clear ALL endgame content, sending love brother❤️

[@Jayniro]

Thanks for having me on! Was super fun and glad we recorded this before I got hacked 😅

[@tranquocanh5229]

1 important thing these 2 guys forgot to tell u is: Elf and astral OP have rank too like valkyrie, and the difference is huge, like the newest S rank astral OP, if u whale her to SS rank, u have a huge advantage against player who only has her as S rank, eventhough the team and gear are basically the same. Also the disturbance system defied by how well players do at previous abyss cycle. The higher average score is, the higher the disturbance goes and makes enemies tankier and has more resistance and DEF. And its opposite if the average score is low.

[@archerkuro4158]

Because some signature weapons are locked to rng I don’t think they can use those for teir list as the standard since it’s potentially impossible to get it

[@alekseyp.9124]

We need to prepare. And by "prepare" I mean "get a second job" because that is the only way to get more pulls. This really kills my enthusiasm for the game.

[@tanzatroll]

So....what to do if you don't have Solider 11? I have lucy+sig/piper+grace w-engine and I'd really like to play anomaly/disorder team, but I don't see any possibility w/o 11...😢

[@senelclark101]

Hugely disagree. (1) Brimstone and Starlight engine pretty good DPS weapons (2) The fatal flaw of your argument is Hi3rd has PvEvP scoring system So no. I think you are clearly mistaking this.

[@XenderPlays]

The new mintpicker is back! 🎉

[@vertigovain]

Infinite Abyss - is a 99 level TV dungeon in ZZZ.

[@samya519]

I was lucky and got ellen early so i went for her w-engine. Tbh i only did this because i wanted her to resist power creep for a little longer than without it but when i saw how much damn crit rate i actually got i had a stroke XD.

[@plvto1]

gah damn i wanna live where lyo is living it looks so perfect there

[@walipp]

another thing beyond the weapons are also teams. The whole faction mechanic makes it so that bejond some specific characters, most will probably have quite strickt best in slot teams, with high dmg loss compared to alternatives. If we look at it, it seems pretty certain that for Zhu Yuan for example the bis stunner will be Qingyi, even compared to future limited stunners. This is good at one hand, as it puffers power creep, but also problematic, as it means that for every character you pull there will probably one in the next half/version you 'need' to pull too. Making it more important to save up polycromes prior to pulling a character, not only to guaranteed them and the engine, but probably also at least one other character with engine.

[@dev1lykt14]

nah its not just fractions, its also triggers due same element, and like Zhu Yuan by role. so it will be more easier to build a team with all passives activated.Zhu Yuan plays with Anby just fine, sure Qinqyi will be better but u dont need her.

[@walipp]

@@dev1lykt14 I'm not that concerned about triggering the passives, that shouln't be a big problem, but more like support A: increases Fire dmg by 50% and (non ex) special skill crit dmg by 50% DPS B: Is fire and playstyle revolves around using the unenhanced skill a lot which is a direction they could easely go into (es specially with the faction allowing for passive combos that would not work otherwise, like an ether agent that specialises in boosting dash attacks, could not be easely used by ellen, despite her wanting those buffs, while the physical dash attack character of the same faction has no problem doing so) we actually see a lesser form of this with ellen and Lycaon already. Lycaon is the strongest stun at the moment by virtue of being the only one to raise the stun dmg multiplyer, but that is something that definitely will get powercreept or at least reached by future stun units soon. but the other part of his kit (the 25% Ice RES down) will probably stay unique way longer, making him ellens best in slot for a long time. It is no problem with those two because Lycaon is standart, but for future characters that seems to be the kind of relationship that requires pairing, to get the full performance out of both the units

[@eddystylez]

If endgame seriously requires sacrificing pulling potential on new characters as F2P, fuck that. New Characters/Fun > min-maxing endgame rewards.

[@Moonestone]

I love how the faceless person is the one who loves to interrupt the most

[@hollowficate]

HI3 need more than just the weapon. The characters need their signature equipment (weapon+stigmata).

[@himalkanwar77]

u get stigmata from the weapon banner after part 2 all the part 2 character stigmata is farmable.

[@Jmerithew87]

Releasing this video so long after you recorded it and the newest character/weapon really running counter to your arguments was a bizarre call…

[@IyoXS]

Can't let it go to waste, y'know? Big unfort for the vid, but massive dub for Zhu Yuan havers.

[@Jmerithew87]

@@IyoXS just seems like an odd decision for the most passionate creator in the community with no peers on their level to put out dated information 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@MoarVolume]

@@Jmerithew87 Just give it a fucking rest already 🙄

[@Jest3r101]

@@MoarVolume ride it harder till you negative edge then kara cancel till you can negative edge infinitely while doing B-hops fudc

[@MoarVolume]

@@Jest3r101Nice comeback, same copy pasta shit we've been seeing in the last 52,000th comment section. Figure out something more witty rather then just dick biting on internet memes. Some people are here for actual in game mechanics not for your baby ass elementary commentary.

[@mimo5383]

Saw this coming early so built 3 teams in ZZZ and will likely just level up each character and try to get at least a single copy of their matching weapon over time.

[@JayceRustia]

No Egg and Pokemon invited ? No figthing games/evo pros ? Kara-canceled ?

[@BocchiTheBox]

Ayo I feeled called out for the sunlight thing. Kek

[@IyoXS]

I could see into the future last week apparently. LOL

[@zaythleon5847]

I think the biggest problem with Hi3 is that it's too expensive. Even with all the changes it still feels like even genshin is cheaper then Hi3

[@OutboundFlight87]

Im so happy i sniped soldier on my ellen 50/50. The girl is the smoothest to play

[@syarilezzuddeen]

What do people mean 50/50? I pulled S-11 on Zhu Yuan's banner does that mean if I go another 80 pulls I'll get Zhu Yuan 100%?

[@noahcastro9525]

50:12 min yap session 😵‍💫

[@CodeTetsu]

Honestly yeah. Feels like it’s a lot of off regurgitated takes made in previous videos.

[@foxiki387]

I would argue the sig thing where they're making these limited weapons more mandatory is much small concept than this video makes it out to be, just to jump off of an example, sigewinne's bow in genshin. You are NOT pulling that unless you really like sigewinne, because that weapon is very exclusively made around shoed in mechanics that only sigewinne has in that bow user catagory and its only purpose is to increase her personal damage which is an unnecessary factor of sigewinne's best teams again unless you like her and want to kill enemies with the lethal dose. In Zeez, they also just released a sig that's barely competitive over standard and free options for Zhu Yuan, so much so that it almost feels like a mistake. Basically, never played hi3 but I'll take players words for it that sigs do so much more in their game, and aside from some niche star rail cases I can't see the idea that hoyo limited weapons are pushed in ways that reduce the quality of a units base kits should you choose not to get them.

[@MuniC-z8c]

In hi3 you literally get new skill with sig weapons or just some weapons in general

[@sswave8915]

One guyed

[@deviant315l6]

I’m guessing this video was made be4 finding out that the account lv cap is lv 50. I’m guessing by 1.1 a lot of people will be there. I’ve done no refreshes and missed some days but I’m at 44 right now from in game exp. So I don’t really think it’ll be that hard to lv characters unless it’s the DD.

[@FoxYinnyy]

Yeah there was a significant difference when I played Ellen and Nekomata without their W-engines. So you can still enjoy the game without but if you want to feel like you actually are doing nuking-big damage, I do feel like you have to pull for their W-engine. Zhu Yuan felt already pretty strong without hers, but when I decided to pull for it (and getting it), my god but.. it feels so absolutely OP and disgusting. If you wanna try to get the S in Shiyu Defence or try to aim for all those S-ranks after combat? W-Engines feel like a must sadly enough.

[@jamesdavid2893]

As Welt would say, Grind or be destroyed.

[@vertigovain]

HI3 is not directly comparable because in HI3 characters are farmable. So theres bigger focus on premium weapons rather than char itself.

[@naminode]

Sooo want old abyss mode with all the sabotaging in zzz

[@ДимаАрхаров-з4т]

Well, so far dmg comparasins between Ellen and Zhu Yuan weapons with their respective alternatives are similar of genshin system: 10-20% more dmg is not somthing any character would "need" anytime, so i think mb a little too harsh takes on the future of endgame and weapon needs.

[@Addvant]

Listening to this makes me think i got pretty lucky on my rolls lol

[@taylorreed4338]

Thanks for the video, love you content and glad you express your opinion. We should take everything with a grain of salt and not as law. I’m happy to keep these points in mind as more characters come out. Some I’ll pull weapons for but some I probably won’t. Example I pulled for JY and won’t be pulling her weapon

[@REHOO]

i have severe gacha addiction

[@robotoboy30]

Something I don't think people look at enough is that every character has access to every stat, with different properties on all of their moves. Every character has access to daze damage, and some of their EX's, Ults, and even tag assists deal huge daze damage... if they fix disorder it opens up so much more diversity in team building. You can effectively make some really creative team comps. We always talk about characters in terms of their specialties... but some characters have multipurpose utility. Like in MvC know some characters are just better for support vs being point characters... but they still might have ulterior utility --- like team trench coat lol.

[@captaindanger13]

finally someone who's making the hi3rd connection. since launch, i've been noticing some surface level similarities (only surface level cuz i haven't played hi3rd much so i don't know everything about it), and every time i watched youtubers talk about ZZZ (and sometimes HSR cuz people pointed out that forgotten hall was that game's spiral abyss but nobody mentioned that sim u is basically elysian realm) and its features, none of them brought up the easy connections to hi3rd. Most likely because they don't know anything about it since it's a lot less popular than the other hoyo games.

[@campsky17]

you might be cooking bro, keep going

[@ДаниилТитнер]

90% of content is story or events that require no gameplay at all. 9% of the content can easily be closed with 3 star weapon. 1% is closed behind paywall. Just dont play the Abyss and have fun using sub-dps Ben. Pulling SIGs is stupid.

[@scorpioneldar]

Ellen feels like her weapon is optional but amazing. but the Cop lady honestly her weapon barely makes a difference over starlight engine. Not gonna pull for the weapon. just use the FTP.

[@Moonnverse]

Hi mister iyo

[@IyoXS]

Hello mister Moon.

[@davidm3678]

Dang man 50 minutes? I'm all in

[@IyoXS]

First.

[@davidm3678]

​@@IyoXS Loved it bro. I play Hi3 as well. Vet of nearly 6 years and loved all the comparisons. Many of them are spot on and I do think people are gonna have to be smarter on their pulls. I'm going for Zhu Yuan's W-engine right now and then gonna save for a while before pulling anyone else. I want their weapons for anyone I get. Treating it like Hi3

[@vertigovain]

Also, in ZZZ there is no "weapon types". So every weapon is usable on any char of same class (also might be not very useful if element mismatches), but basically you can use earlier weapons on later chars and exchange them, while in HI3 you need SPECIFIC weapon of specifc tyle i.e. canon, katana, etc. like in genshin.

[@Jayniro]

Nah there still is and it coincides with the agent specialty as well like star rail and the paths. In both ZZZ and HSR you can technically equip any w-engine/lightcone on any character, but the additional abilities/effects of it will only activate if it's specialty/path matches the equipping character's

[@OutboundFlight87]

Bruh on the final node of hollow zero one of the corruptions makes on field characters lose hp per second

[@HTMAV]

“Not so much with fighting games” lmao I just barely started watching your videos and seeing people hate you is so funny, do you have a channel with fighting game vids?

[@IyoXS]

I do, but I stopped uploading there years ago because gacha games started to consume too much of my life. LOL 2XKO is on the way tho! Got some exclusive footage from them so I might get back to it.

[@gabrielwildner4852]

Love your content 👌

[@RafaelBanks69]

Hard disagree, weapons really not that important especially when there are such great replacements

[@yuulb.alwright]

Great video as always iyo

[@jilvermazariegos]

Also that comment "rotations dont exist in this game... Its more like a fighting game" that shit would blow up Twitter 😂 but yeah i agree so far from what I played.

[@IyoXS]

It'd start a whole new war to be honest. lol

[@Silio-pz1oc]

the sun light is giving you death's kid strips lmao

[@Juimimi]

I wouldn't use HI3rd as a reference. The business model they have there is extremely outdated and way more predatory than the one they have in GI and HSR. As a company, they should've learnt something. Hopefully through feedback they give us more f2p options so signatures are not required. Ellen with the f2p one does like 30% less damage than with sig. It's ridiculous

[@FrEnZyfoX42079]

Man, it really do be just another bad video after another lately.

[@azuremoon4754]

I think this is something you say after a few month not 1.0

[@TRemIk42]

Yeh i played Hi3rd was a ton of fun :D Getting the weapon with the character will give such a boost it’s crazy! But in ZZZ i either roll all the 4* weapons or dupes on Chars i already own. I can barely build two teams .-. Guess spending big is the way to go in this game :/

[@BlAdeZ197]

As a Honkai Veteran myself, I can only say based, I fucking love this game, regardless of it's faults

[@ShuLucas]

welcome to the gacha community as a Clownerist Negative Edgy Kara-Cancelling a Career

[@Tsukuyomi2024]

is this an old video just reuploaded

[@reydez84]

Yes it is, it just takes time like in every gacha game lol

[@ImproperStandby]

Let's be honest here, what are you doing if you aren't attacking or dodging, you're mashing attack to kill things that are sponges of health. Soldier 11 is hitting attack at the right time to light the blade. At the end of the day you're still mashing the attack button to kill things, it's just doing it differently. You say this and that about mashing but come on now, you basically hit attack until you or the enemy dies. You just dodge and avoid their attacks, gacha games aren't as deep as some people make it.

[@CodeTetsu]

You can do things like time freeze on an enemy. Freeze I believe stops the stun bar from going down, so you freeze them then ultimate so the long animation doesn’t eat your dps as much. Also with anomaly units you can built it up, but switch characters mid through animation so you can have the proper order of elements for disorder. Also things like Ellen being a little faster when you do scissor cut from a support tag in are also factors, because now you order characters in a way to get more benefits. There’s a little something, it’s just not ultra complicated, just fun facts more or less.

[@ImproperStandby]

@magmaspacer1967 That's pretty nice and sounds very similar to how elements work in Genshin, it's cool I'll admit however to me depth in a gacha game is as deep as a puddle.

[@honkedoffjohn]

I play HI3 and the fact of the matter is their weapon and their stigmata are designed to unlock parts of their kit. If you don't pull the whole character the character is useless. Now look at ZZZ, Ellen's weapon in particular makes her natural gameplay and numbers go way up. Zhu Yuan as a well. If you think your Starlight Engine is gonna carry you in Shiyu Defense then I'm sorry but you are straight COPE. If you don't beat the contest fast enough you don't beat the content which is why you need the W Engines. It worked like this in HI3, some characters work like this in Star Rail, Genshin has never done this. If your gonna be F2P (like I am) you need to accept that if you want to go far in the hard content, you need the W-Engine, period. If you wanna collect waifus and not care thats fine too. Just don't be surprised you can't beat content cause you don't have the stats.

[@jimmypalacio4562]

i havent seen the video but as i am its kind offf2p

[@darko6115]

Its sad hoyo let pt2 flop so hard. They really should of just graphically updated the game as much as possible and added en va’s to the new content and characters and revoice existing characters. That with advertising and the game would of popped off and had a larger player base

[@Crainshaw83]

true ,but HI3 is more generous on the gacha, also there are alot of character you can skip, wich makes it very f2p frienly. Also alot of f2p option (grindy tho) to get signature weapons for past characters

[@hndkp.]

lol, how much more generous? most if not everyone in the honkai discord will tell u u get around 15k-18k per patch which equal to 60ish pulls. thats less than genshin avg.

[@hamutasa3]

that's completely wrong. VERY FKIN WRONG. There are A LOT of characters in HI3 you can't skip if you want to stay in the meta. and to make it worst you can't even play the character if you not pull the weapon and their stigmata set. you can say it's more generous, whatever, it's subjective. but to put that in to context, HI3 endgame content related to competition to others player. heck there's even a leaderboard for that. and as any other online rpg game who put competitiveness in the gameplay, it's almost always p2w. especially if you just started playing the game lately. (sorry i don't really know the condition after HI3 part 2) of course you can enjoy just the story without caring about meta at all. but at that point you can do that to any other gacha games too bro. it'll never going to exclusive to a single game. the point of f2p is only apply if you can clear any game content without spending money on it. there is someone who make it, but for majority of people it's not worth the effort. it requires to much skill and tiniest detail improvement to make that happen.

[@dekahoe]

Even if ZZZ would take the direction you believe, its not really an issue even for f2p. We pretty much get enough poly for a character and their weapon per patch, and you dont have to pull for every single character (especially as f2p)

[@thelastgamurai]

🤔 Hmm

[@BugCatLove]

King is back 👑

[@jaegybomb]

One of the coolest things about zzz is seeing all these smart content creators come from other spaces. I feel like in genshin a lot of them got bullied out by the louder is better crowd.

[@KniveMikoto]

Bro I just uninstalled the game. Weekly Shiyu is just boring to maintain. WuWa just set the bar higher with Changli in terms of fun and engaging combat.

[@chefpi]

I asked for sure

[@shotgunshogun4707]

Not related to the vid but zhu yuan has NO right being as smooth and fun as she is as a character by any gacha standard and this coming from a PGR player, aka I'm spoiled sensless in terms of banger characters. Kinda feel like if zhu yuan was the starting banner unit in 1.0, she'd outsell ellen and bring way more traction to zzz and it's combat imo.

[@ItsNatu]