I found something very interesting inside this 365XD. Overclock, Restoring & repair vintage ThinkPad

[@ruthlessadmin]

This video was a perfect outline of why I do not collect laptops from any era. They are just too fiddly and tiny for me to work on.

[@Epictronics1]

Excellent, I'll pick them up and fix them :)

[@jeremiefaucher-goulet3365]

I love your videos. Always interesting when the repairs get so involved you also have mechanical issues, and fixing plastics in this case. I know it's a pain, but great entertainment.

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you : )

[@Hurbie_53]

I did my first overclocking in 1993. Having bought a Macintosh Performa 475 I upgraded the memory to 4 MB and put in a 256 MB Videoram card to have glorious 32k colors on my 640x480 RGB screen. True fun began, when I later that year ordered a ful 68040 CPU, because the stock 68LC040 has been castrated and had no FPU. So no 3d software and rendering for me. And since 25 MHz didn't really kick ass with Alias Sketch!, Amapi, Strata or Infini-D, I overclocked it by changing the soldering of a few specific soldering pads on the board in a specific pattern to ramp up the frequency an insane 32% to 33 MHz. Aaah, those were the days 😊

[@Epictronics1]

Sounds like good fun. I have a Performa 475. I think I'll try that frequency hack :)

[@Biaanca5036]

It is exactly why I discredit people as crazy when they say these old IBM iterations are """built like tanks""" they're always paper-thin ABS plastic and baaad baaaad solder joints and you have to hold most of the early thinkpads with both hands juuuuuust to avoid motherboard failure. They really look cool, but ownership of them especially 20 years later is _not_ for the timid 🙏 Yaaay superglue and bakingsoda trick! :D Despite that, I like my personally-owned T40pro; it beeps for everything and I love _all the beeps!_ Plug in the charger? beep! Remove the charger? beep! Go into sleep mode? Beep! Insert a card? Sooo many beeps!

[@Epictronics1]

I'd say that's partially true for many laptops this vintage. Although, this is actually the only TP in my collection that has gone brittle. Could it have something to do with how it was stored?

[@michvod]

Yeah, like 390 series. Got a large pile of them (like 100 units or so) in 2007 or 2008, they weren't even 10 years old, and the plastics around hinges failed on almost every one. I got myself 3 or 4 units that held up well and saved them. I had a 390E in 2004 (4 years old!!), that hinge plastics were starting to go, but I managed to sell it quickly. Also T2x and T3x series,.. All well, but they failed like mad. All mainboard issues. And to have a second thought, also the T4x series failed all the time (when 4-5 years old), the GPUs failed almost exclusively. And on some other IBM stuff that held kinda well (like 600 series), the case gets sticky and batteries were failing after 6 months back then. For comparison, I still own few Compaq laptops from same era, and they all survived with no problems or failing plastics. So I can say that Compaq is much better quality than IBM... Same goes for the desktops of that era. IBM always had issues with bulging caps, while Compaq PCs never had them...

[@Epictronics1]

@@michvod Damn, that's tough. I'm glad I have plenty of Compaqs too. Although, my pile of T4x and the earlier machines are still ok. Fingers crossed, I hope they will last!

[@michvod]

@@Epictronics1 Yeah, I kinda still prefer IBMs over Compaqs, they just feel like a cooler device. But still, I think IBM had a lot of problems that weren't widely discussed because of a "being an IBM". I'm bit surprised that hinges broke on yours though... About the Compaqs... If you can solder SMD components.. try getting a nc6000/nx5000. In 100% of cases it is just a CPU power delivery IC that solder has failed. It is the only side solder SMD chip on the board and it is near the CPU. I repaired 100s of them back in a day (2009-2012ish). And they are very solid machines after that... I know they will not fail on me. Ever :)

[@pentiummmx2294]

@@michvod my T42 just died after a while and i later found out that ibm t series laptops are notorious for that

[@oldguy9051]

15:50 The image on the chip actually isn't a Santa Claus but a "Daikokuten" -- "a syncretic Japanese deity of fortune and wealth" according to Wikipedia.

[@Epictronics1]

Great, I don't mind fortune and wealth at all, I'll have it

[@tomleech9753]

Baking soda is great, but I also recommend styene sheets in .5mil or 1 mil or thicker if you have the space, as they can be cut to any size and provide more reinforcement. I repair vintage toys and vintage computers so there's a lot of cross over. :)

[@Tossphate]

Love these vintage ThinkPads. I just started my collection with a 600 model sporting a p2 266mhz.

[@8BitRetroJournal]

Perfect video for what I needed. I own a 365XD that I bought used around 2001. It's worked without flaw and the case and everything was perfect. Took it off the shelf yesterday and something was rattling in the screen. Took the hinge screws off and spread the two sides apart gently for a small gap, and a bunch of standoff pieces fell out upon shaking it (two standoff's worth). So I'm not quite sure where they came from. I wanted to take it apart and watched a few videos, including yours. They all came to the same conclusion...the plastic is very brittle at this stage The other videos didn't show the process but in yours I can at least see where the standoffs are. So it's either one of the three that connect the hinge on both sides or one that connects the LCD screen. The screen is still solid (no wiggle) so for now I'm going to leave it alone and see how it progresses. I fear opening it up will just have it break in a ton of pieces. There is a 365 service manual that tells you how to take it apart and it does show were all the tabs are (that you found randomly) but I don't think that'll help prevent breakage when taking it apart.

[@8BitRetroJournal]

Oh, one follow up...what I don't understand is how the bits of plastic could have been so loose since it looks like they are all covered in that gold foil, making me think it should keep it all together. Just curious which standoffs broke off.

[@Epictronics1]

I'm still looking for a CPU to overclock some more.They turned out to be difficult to find

[@8BitRetroJournal]

@@Epictronics1 I may take the base part apart and leave the screen as is, to see if I can overclock it to what you did. Didn't know you could do that. Hopefully the base plastic is a bit more robust than the LCD one. Maybe the LCD part is weaker because of heat the screen puts out? I should measure it next time I use it for a while.

[@opfax163]

I dream of modern laptops with retro designs , I love their chunkiness and big angles . Imagine the benefit of having a big battery inside . The slim design is cool but the battery don't last very long especially if you do some gaming on it .

[@Epictronics1]

True. A modern IBM 365XD would be an awesome laptop

[@nickwallette6201]

I dunno. I was running Presonus Studio One on my M1 MacBook Pro for a few hours. Tons of analog modeling DSP plugins running on a multitrack session with dozens of tracks. I stopped when my AirPods batteries ran out, and I was hungry anyway. Laptop was good to go for a whole round 2, if I had wanted to. :-) I know it’s not a game, but I can’t imagine I would’ve believed that much processing power with that much run time in that slim of a notebook would ever be possible back when these retro laptops were contemporary.

[@KillerInc]

Quick maths but I think you could fix the FrameWork 13" laptop "Mainboard" inside an old laptop that doesn't work to get that effect. Some level of hackory would need to be done for full effect.

[@nickthaskater]

A 16" MacBook Pro has a 99.6Wh battery. The largest size (in a laptop) you can take on an airplane is 100Wh. That airplane limit is the determining factor in why 100Wh is the practical maximum for an integral battery.

[@opfax163]

@@nickthaskater interesting

[@BigBadBench]

Fun overclock! I remember swapping p166mmx for the original p120 in the thinkpad 760el. I’ll look around and see if I have any of those cpu boards around.

[@Epictronics1]

yeah, love hackable stuff like this :) I think this is a TCP320 package. Not easy to find!

[@Epictronics1]

I've been trying to find a mobile p166 without any luck. Did you swap a CPU board in the 760 or just the p120? From what I can tell, the p120 and P166MMX works at different voltages?

[@DeepestDungeon]

I'd like to see more thinkpad restoration videos

[@Epictronics1]

I've got piles of them :)

[@DeepestDungeon]

@@Epictronics1 i wonder have you ever repaired a ibm 760 series laptop?

[@Epictronics1]

@@DeepestDungeon I'm pretty sure I have one in storage but I don't think I have ever done any repairs to it. I have probably only removed the CMOS battery

[@DeepestDungeon]

@@Epictronics1 Oh, okay. I saved my 760LD from the junkyard, but it seems dead-it shows a blinking speaker icon on keyboard LCD when I turn it on and that’s it. Such a shame.

[@Epictronics1]

@@DeepestDungeon I don't remember where the CMOS battery is on the 760. Check for damage caused by a leaky battery. A very common fault with TPs this vintage

[@jwoody8815]

I purchased a used very good condition Thinkpad 300E with a Pentium II 300 back in late 2003 I used as a daily driver, I upgraded it to a PIII 500, Maxxed out the RAM to 256MB, upgraded to a more "modern" (7200RPM) hard drive, DVD Drive, wireless PCMCIA card and Windows XP, not all that hard to do, I found the older Thinkpads to be relatively easy to work on and quite modular, Especially compared to most modern day (Especially Apple) laptops. It made for a suprisingly competent early Windows and DOS game and DVD/Music player on the go for a long time. The Thinkpads were tough as nails as very well thought out, used mine in light rain more than a few times and some damned cold (and snowy) weather with no issue. Thinkpads were the premiere standard business laptop from the early 90s clear into the mid 2000s for good reason.

[@Pholiage]

Really love this channel. Learning so much about old computer repairs. Appreiciate the detailed explanations. I have a question though. Do you have any experience of repairing a memory channel on a motherboard? If so is that something you could feature in a video?

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you :) Unfortunately no. Good luck with the project

[@charlesdorval394]

Looking forward to the new CPU ! :)

[@Epictronics1]

Don't know if it's doable yet, but I will sure try!

[@SoundFantasy]

I'm very surprised you didn't have an issue with the display on this laptop. The connector on mine is very finnicky. I needed to add some pressure in order to keep a connection.

[@LotoTheHero]

Oh man, I have a ton of respect for the work you put in on that thing. The teardown looked like it would be super tedious and time consuming. I don't even want to think about putting it back together... XD I've never done any work on laptops, and I think I might keep it that way. 😅 This was really fun to watch though, and it's cool that you were able to do some decent repairs and even squeeze a bit more speed out of this thing! 👍

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you :)

[@RudysRetroIntel]

Most excellent video and work as always. Sorry I couldn't stay but work called. Thanks again for sharing

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you Rudy :)

[@ShyStudios]

I have one of these, would be nice to get a bit of an OC but man getting the cpu out without breaking all the plastic looks like hell. Mine is MINT except for one of the little latches.

[@Epictronics1]

Nice. Well, I don't recommend anyone to take the risk. But, if you do, you don't need to disassemble the display

[@kittyztigerz]

i remember i have one before and they always fragile and easy fall aparts in my hand just by touching it and got rid of it one my friends want it so he trade me for desktop for thinkpad so i let it go because i cant do much about it im more on desktop than laptop lol i love watching you taking it aparts and fix it and upgrade it else it fun learn something about it

[@thomasguilder9288]

Wow now I hve to get out my old 365xd and try that too :-)

[@jozsefizsak]

I have great fondness for old ThinkPads. My experience only goes back to the T20 so this was uncharted territory for me. 😊

[@rasz]

T20 was the start of really solid Thinkpads.

[@Trenchbroom]

As someone who paid $500 more for a P150 desktop BITD than my friend's P133 and having him consistently have better frame rates in games, I would just leave that laptop at 133 mhz. The faster bus speed likely makes more difference than the CPU clock.

[@Epictronics1]

It would have been a really interesting comparison. Unfortunately Mobile P150 (non-mmx) are rare and silly expensive.

[@bikkiikun]

It think the individual PCBs for the volume knob and the LEDs is a good solution, when thinking about repairs. Unfortunately the choice of plastics was rather poor. I don't think you can do much to rescue the screen bezel, maybe try putting the plastics in a ziploc bag with some water and leave it for a couple of days. But unless you want to keep it as museum exhibit without ever using it, I would recommend replacements of the broken bezel(s).

[@2dfx]

Nice laptops, but always preferred the 700 series for their superior upgradability and flexibility.

[@samt4202]

You could see if there is a way to increase the voltage to the CPU and then it may run at 66 MHz and a 2.5x multiplier. May want to upgrade the thermal pad to a modern one for this experiment though.

[@Epictronics1]

Interesting. Not sure how to go about this though.

[@PP-xy9bg]

It was pretty common design - the board being held by the jacks in place.

[@95Comics]

Use a hot air gun and heat the plastic up. When you know it’s brittle that gives it more flexibility.

[@xenoxaos1]

I love they made a separate USB keyboard

[@Tommi-C]

I was always a Toshiba laptop fan, then the Sony Vaio was great.

[@danielktdoranie]

I had one of these in the 90s and ran Slackware Linux on it

[@communalnoodle1356]

Ha, Love it - always great seeing old laptops etc that seem beyond repair to most people getting fixed anyway. Also, my first laptop was a Toshiba 300CDS - I would of killed for the CT/CDT version with the better screen. I nowadays have one in my collection but of course it's easier to do that now since they don't cost anywhere near what they did new. Anyway, love the videos mate.

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you : )

[@communalnoodle1356]

@@Epictronics1 100% welcome my friend.

[@lemagreengreen]

Sad to see the plastics degraded to that point :( pretty iconic machine, in 1996 that was the absolute dream laptop. Really makes you appreciate modern construction though, old laptops are absolute pain to service.

[@Epictronics1]

It's an epic machine. I wish IBM would start making awesome laptops again. The market is wide open!

[@lemagreengreen]

@@Epictronics1 Was a great video, thanks for making it. Noticed the 66MHz/2.5x multiplier options on that card, 365XD was never offered at 166MHz though was it? maybe they used that same card for other laptops at that speed though, was wondering if maybe a 166 (maybe even MMX) card exists that would fit this laptop, maybe from a Thinkpad 380? or maybe they just had longer term plans for this model.

[@nickthaskater]

​@Epictronics1, the X1 Nano would be wonderful if they put some actual ports on it and put a Ryzen chip in it. Wasted potential. I have a GPD Win Max 2 which is a chunky 10" subnotebook. It has a powerful 16-thread Ryzen 7840U, 32GB DDR5 7500, 2TB PCIE 4 SSD (and room for a secondary 2230 SSD), a wealth of ports, and a 67Wh battery. It is the closest thing I can think of to a classic ThinkPad brick and I love it.

[@mikerogers7071]

👍

[@JVHShack]

If there isn't a part of the plastic missing, 100% acetone can weld the plastic back together. Adrian Black demonstrated this method recently. With you starting out having a P-120, I'm thinking that it may have been during the Socket 5 era, which, in a desktop PC, wouldn't allow anything faster than a P-133 to be installed physically.

[@Epictronics1]

Yes, I'm thinking the same, but I'll do some reading and find out. Maybe we can push a 133 to 150?

[@vanCaldenborgh]

@@Epictronics1 When I remember right, the jump from 133 to 150 was in real life nearly useless, since 150 is not a factor of 33.3 and therefore not synchron with the bus, 166 would be the next sensible goal, 150 almost only just extra heat.

[@Epictronics1]

@@vanCaldenborgh Ok, thanks

[@awilliams1701]

thermal paste on a pad isn't as odd as you'd think. I watched a jayztwocents video this week where he was working on a modern laptop. He was having trouble with the memory temps. He remembered a while ago that EK used to recommend thermal paste on top of the pads when installing a waterblock on a GPU. So he tried it. It helped, but the pads were too thick so the GPU temps increased as a result.

[@kelvinstokes996]

Nostalgia is often more powerful than reality: I owned a 365ED when it was brand new. Total POS right from new - the internal battery charger failed in the 2nd year, the plastics were brittle from new. The screen latches and keyboard latches were really fragile. These were poorly engineered and cheaply built ThinkPads.

[@BryieURuncal2023]

JB weld

[@brendanstone3073]

Yes, why can't they give us a keyboard like that anymore?

[@Epictronics1]

It's really odd. It's a fairly simple construction. Seems cheaper and easier to make than many modern keyboards

[@ordinosaurs]

I have a 365 ; super brittle too, it develops cracks just by looking at it funny. The plastic IBM used was rubbish. I have other TP models, they hold much better in time.

[@Epictronics1]

Same thing here. The 365 is the only brittle TP I have ever handled

[@THEtechknight]

Brittle Plastic Disease strikes again! I just junked a Toshiba that was about as bad as that one. perhaps worse.

[@pentiummmx2294]

is there a cure for that?

[@THEtechknight]

@@pentiummmx2294 unfortunately no, but I am not a chemist. The only solution going forward would be 3D scanning and printing using powder

[@SoundFantasy]

I saw your post. That was quite insane how the plastic decayed like that. Green ps1 debug systems are also stupidly brittle.

[@m4rgin4l]

Please please please use the right bit size :)

[@Epictronics1]

Didn't I?

[@m4rgin4l]

@@Epictronics1 Around 16:13 I can see the bit slip on the screw's head.

[@Epictronics1]

@@m4rgin4l Ah, the right size, not enough pressure, the screw is ok

[@ricdintino9502]

"I'm not a big fan of this design" - Good God, what a fucking nightmare.

[@Epictronics1]

haha, it's not that bad, I've seen/worked on worse than this. eg HP Internet Advisor...

[@rasz]

"legendary Thinkpad" .. proceeds to fall apart :--) Imo Thinkpads that build the image of legendary bulletproof solid build quality were T(avoid discrete GPU variants) and X series with some 600 thrown in there (if you can put up with NeoMagic mistake). Go earlier and you end up with brittle mess.

[@WinPC99]

Yeah but these 90s think pads weren’t falling apart during their useful lives. A laptop that has no issues for 5-7 years in the 90s would have been incredible. Technology was moving so fast that you would have moved on years before an issue would have ever developed. Plus there are other variants that hold up better. The 760XL comes to mind. But ultimately, it has to do with how it has been stored

[@Epictronics1]

@@WinPC99 Yes, this is actually the only TP I have that has gone brittle. Very likely a storage issue

[@pentiummmx2294]

@@Epictronics1 365XD was also the budget one as well so the build quality isn't the best compared to like a 760ED/EL/ELD

[@ViegasSilva]

"O I C"