I'm glad this video is wrong.

[@lilypaigeham]

About the whole thing of Evan seeing Baby scoop Elizabeth theory, if there were two children in the area, Baby wouldnt have done it, its only when she's alone would she do it. She says it herself that she was always acutely aware of how many people were in the room

[@zinmaalmi292]

I thought about that too

[@umargul6048]

There's also the fact that she was killed by Baby to begin with. Baby and other Funtime animatronics were designed to kidnap children for William, meaning that he knew about remnant, and he discovered remnant during one of his killing sprees, and his first one was 2 years after the Bite.

[@JackedThor-so]

My headcannon for that theory is that he peaked through a half closed door or around a corner when he saw it. It would make sense as to why Baby missed him, but also explain why he peaks around doors in his nightmares.

[@bluefreddy5766]

@@JackedThor-so CB is an a animatronic,ofc she would see him she was programmed to count children “Four games one story” tells us that Elizabeth wasn’t relevant to fnaf 4’s story nor was she even planned The thing is we don’t play as BV in fnaf 4’s gameplay, we play as Micheal.

[@stupidenby]

thats what i was thinking

[@Kenshar1984]

Since Scott no longer makes the games… I really wish he would come foreword and clarify everything for all of his older games… Would make the speculation so much better if we definitely knew the correct story of the early games.. As it stands now… each new game seems to throw the complete story into new directions every time… It feels like we will never know what the new games actually mean until we get confirmation that we actually have the old ones correct.

[@cornfield3034]

Scott doesn’t know. He relies on fan theories just as much as us, and then adds on cool things and watches the fallout

[@crukts7544]

@@cornfield3034 that not true

[@MrGooshy]

@@crukts7544 it's true

[@TheShape45]

​@@crukts7544it's true

[@MrScorpioreaper]

​@@crukts7544 it's true

[@smashers6971]

The funtimes being created after the original MCI makes perfect sense when you consider William was almost caught, like he was pretty much going to be arrested, but they couldn’t find the bodies, so he was let go. William created the funtimes so he could continue his research with remnant secretly, and not be at risk of being caught. Obviously those plans fell through when Elizabeth died and babies was closed, Probably leading to him pretty much getting fired from whatever high position he had at the company, and perfectly leading to what fnaf 2 establishes for the most part, the whole facial recognition system is there because William at this point is sort of an issue for the company and they don’t want him back, heck even the toy animtronic’s being shoddily built (Toy Freddy and Chica’s eyes and beak falling out when they’re offstage and everything with mangle) makes sense when you consider both robotic geniuses at Fazbear entertainment are gone. The only issue with the Funtimes being created as a result of the MCI makes the idea of William doing the spring Bonnie trick agian in fnaf 2 incredibly stupid.

[@sleepylmguy9968]

For your last part at the end. With William doing the Springbonnie thing again stupid. Maybe he did that out of pettiness aka he did it more so cause he wanted to get the fnaf 2 location close down on purpose. As a sort of payback for the company(Fazbear’s) getting rid of him. You could also easily fix that by saying, the Funtimes were created after 2nd McI or DCI(as some people called it). This way your earlier statement(1st paragraph) still works but it took 2 close calls for him to go with the Funtime idea.

[@smashers6971]

@@sleepylmguy9968 I would say that but FNAF 2 states that the restaurant is being shut down and going to reopen soon, it isn’t permanently closed like it was after the MCI. So I feel regardless if William did anything in the fnaf 2 restaurant, Elizabeth’s death would’ve already happened.

[@titan7789]

Lol,what if the reason that Toy Animatronics attack him,not because they see him as an endo,but because Michael is so much alike like William.

[@damkylan3]

Only problem with that is that FNAF2 outright confirms that William was employed at that location. Even if we don't put any stock into the clearly suspicious activity of the day guard, as mentioned by Phone Guy, we see him walking around with a badge in the same building as the Toys and the victims of the second MCI in one of the minigames. So if the facial scanners were for him, they and the management utterly failed. Now that's not necessarily out of character for Fazbear Entertainment, but I think it makes more sense that the scanners were implemented because the MCI had just happened and they wanted to set people's minds at ease. I suppose the other possibility is that William disguised himself as a guard and managed to get past security because the day guard was just a chump who couldn't do his job properly. Probably ended up taking the fall for William when the authorities took him in.

[@smashers6971]

@@damkylan3 it’s weird because Fnaf 2’s hidden plot really isn’t fallowed up at all, even in fnaf 3 it pretty much shows the toys were never possessed in the first place, hell the phone calls make even less sense considering the restaurant in 2 doesn’t even look like it’s under investigation during gameplay.

[@Khanmanlol]

For me, I always like to imagine the Crying Child to be the first child to die, since it provides a motivation (revenge) for William Afton to go and kill anyone and everyone that had wronged him and his son.

[@zinmaalmi292]

My thought exactly

[@SigilOfBaphomet]

William doesn’t need that motivation, we already know he’s not very sane and Charlie dying before Evan makes a lot of sense if you don’t take midnight motorist as proof of it not being the case

[@zAch90ed]

@@SigilOfBaphomet Charlie dying after Evan makes more sense tbh. As when Evan died, William probably saw how Henry’s life was so much better than his, so he killed Charlie because of that. Logically, it makes so much more sense. And midnight motorist, that kid that ran away, I’m pretty sure is Michael

[@SigilOfBaphomet]

@@zAch90ed William killed Charlie because he was drunk and in the middle of one of his jealously bursts. And yeah, Michael definitely was the kid who ran away in midnight motorist but there are still plenty of questions to answer, like: where did Michael run away to? Why was Fredbear outside of his window? Why is William yellow? What is JR's? What is that spot full of dirt? And who was watching the TV?

[@trumpaigaming7632]

That's not his motive at all lmao. Have you read the books or heard his dialogie? He's a cold hearted, egocentric, sadistic man who takes pleasure in the suffering of his victims as seen by FNaF AR, and he is never once portrayed sympathetically or in a positive light. Henry has his lament about Charlie's death and his wish to save her, this shows that Henry is a grieving parents who truly is devastated by the loss of his child. William on the other hand never once expresses any of these sentiments. He is always cold, calm and predatory, like a snake oil salesman. He is not phased by any of the things that have happened to him or his family and only cares about killing more people, gaining more power through remnant, and seemingly unlocking the secret of immortality. There's literally a whole tape in Security Breach that shows William infecting Vanessa with Elizabeth's memory in order to form a fake bond with her, and it quite clearly shows that William is willing to manipulate his own daughter to get what he wants. William is a pure evil that never dies, he has been characterized this way since FNaF 2 and became more noticeable in FNaF 3. He has come back to every location, time and time again to kill more people or do his other dirty work (ie: dismantle the animatronics). He has been there since the first Fredbear's, and will show up wherever a Freddy's exists. He is quite literally the demon who haunts the franchise, and will not die until the franchise dies too.

[@RabbiB0Y]

now that I think of it Fredbear's stomach mouth could possible be explained by The crying child seeing an employee enter the Fredbear animatronic (sense its a spring lock) and we know from the books and specifically how they are drawn in the graphic novel that the torso and the legs come apart so the employee can put the suit on like a pair of pants and a shirt and along with the claw (or teeth) like design the spring locks themselves have to hold the endoskeleton in place at the back of the coustume so like maybe in the crying Childs dumb little baby brain he thought that Fredbear had a mouth in his stomach when he saw the employee enter the suit and thought the spring locks were teeth just a thought

[@ender01o66]

Candy Cadet says the MCI were literally eaten, perhaps that's why

[@zinmaalmi292]

Yeah I wondered about that too

[@tropezando]

Crying child's dumb little baby brain 💀

[@RabbiB0Y]

@@ender01o66 MCI happens in 1985 which last time I checked is after 1983 when the crying child died so that can't be it

[@ender01o66]

@@RabbiB0Y there's two MCI's, one in 1983, and one in 1985 Stage 01 shows us that Cassidy possessed Fredbear in 1983, and Henry creates the Puppet to prevent Charlotte from becoming another victim of the 1983 MCI the first MCI happens on June 26th while FNaF 4 takes place in Winter 1983

[@gedar205]

The Mediocre Melodies should be absorbed into the Fazbear franchise early in the timeline because we see kids wearing masks of them in the Happiest Day mini game which happens in Fredbear's

[@siresquawks]

Who said it was in Fredbear’s? I always felt it was a generic abstract Freddy’s or general pizza place.

[@gedar205]

@@siresquawks it's the exact same layout as the one in the FNAF 4 mini games. Honestly, it's the first time I see someone disagree with that. I'm not saying it has to be right tho, but seems pretty intentional.

[@Youheeep]

True

[@titan7789]

Oh wait...you're right. Though...couldn't the Happiest Day happens in Michael's pizzeria though and not when we assume?

[@Toaster003]

The happiest day minigame takes place in a depiction of the fredbears layout in some sort of purgatory for dead children sometime in the early 90s or early 2020s.

[@BlazeWriter]

While I agree that the beginning did feel like fan fiction, trying to figure out the backstory to a major character like William does fall in line with “being a theory”. Although I much prefer his alternative of the whole “bear show” thing being a family business, that William decided to bring over to a new generation. I also agree that Elizabeth being the first death is basically impossible.

[@darak1455]

I may be wrong but wasn't matpat pro elizabeth can't be the first victim/dead child?

[@nachtderuntoten3682]

@@darak1455Think he was talking about how it makes no sense for William to build remnant extracting machines if he didn’t see remnant in action before i.e. Charlie being murdered by him. This would lead to the building of the remnant extracting machines and killer robots which would inevitably lead to Elizabeth dying.

[@heyheyitsjae2475]

To be fair, the Mediocre Melodies being in a separate cataloge in FNAF 6 doesn't mean they were owned by a different company at the time. Catalogues will often sell a bunch of different things from a bunch of different companies, and the fact that Orville is in a different catalogue than the rest seems to hammer home the idea that these are based on price-range of the buyer rather and IP ownership. Now that doesn't mean that they were necessarily absorbed into the company as early as Mat Pat suggests, but they still could've been bought out before FNAF 6.

[@siresquawks]

That’s fair

[@SigilOfBaphomet]

Considering the fact that the mediocre melodies work with batteries attached to them, it’s safe to say they’re older than most other animatronics

[@chugthug4140]

Mat pat said they were made by Henry and Henry originally owned a different restaurant

[@fishbot9902]

Counter argument lefty is $5 and the jar of pickles is $15

[@thecrazycro1622]

@@fishbot9902 Counter counter argument, those are some damn good quality pickles

[@MattGOnYT]

I feel like the Mediocre’s being purchased during Pizza Sim doesn’t work that well, as the Rockstar animatronics are purchased through the same means, most notably with Orville and Lefty being under the same auction. It seems based on this that the different shops in Pizza Sim are all owned by Henry in some way, with him using these separate shops to keep up the illusion of the “thriving franchisee” while he prepares to destroy the remaining robots. However, Elizabeth almost definitely isn’t first. It 100% has to be either Crying Child or Charlie, as Charlie causes the MCI possessions as you said, and CC was killed in ‘83. Personally, I think CC works better, as it provides an inciting incident that causes William’s spiral, while helping Michael’s personal motive

[@WeAreRisenzUPS]

I always thought that Elizabeth dying first seemed wrong just out of principle, I always thought the Crying Child seeing something could be something at Fredbears like a worker getting in a springlock suit or maybe even a springlock failure. Of course we don’t know what he saw so it could be anything related to the animatronics

[@Chillipeffer]

one point that immediately stumps Elizabeth being the cause of bv's nightmares is that Baby said she and her were alone. BV likely wasn't even there, and even if he was, Baby also states the children couldn't even hear her scream.

[@Satoru-Gojou]

Aswell in the books confirmes the events of her death happens after MCI, in 1985

[@cosmicbreath]

Frankly I'm surprised all the FNAFtubers are taking this timeline so seriously. Even Matpat called it the "Ultimate Timeline", not the "Final Timeline" or "Correct Timeline". The game canon will likely render all timelines a moot point within the next two years like it's done time and time again. At this point I just find it really interesting while seeing what creations people come up with out of the 5 different puzzles that the lore dumped out all over the table then took half the pieces away.

[@zelz3011]

I mean the point is we are all trying to solve this lore. Mat Pat is a massive channel and has been doing this for years. Of course this is going to be taken seriously it's been built up so long and finally we may gain a direction. This is sort of what we do for smaller channels to a smaller degree and bigger channels to a bigger degree we keep theorizing and throwing things at the basket until one ball finally feels like it hits. I don't know about your sort of pessimistic view on how the timeline might just change again as I don't think that's what is happening. I think these things can be figured out the issue is that we the fans are complicated it especially when we don't have certain info(AKA RUIN and such) and thus now must make things work around each other.

[@siresquawks]

Idk it’s still an event in the fandom when Matpat makes a theory no matter how bad. It’s always interesting to talk about.

[@kauricebell]

Ultimate is a synonym for final

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

Bruh

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

Hè stopped with that part pf the theory long ago

[@nadie887]

I'm surprised that when you talked about mat saying how CC could have possibly been present in the room when Elizabeth dies you didn't talk about how baby says in detail how she is programmed to leave no witness, and that she counted the kids in the room for that.

[@text1016]

I dont really get how matpat thinks Elizabeth has to be the first when there is such a big plothole with it being that way. Believing Charlie is the first has less plotholes even, the security puppet existing (even if there was no accident before) makes as much sense as William making killer animatronics out of nowhere. If matpat is willing to overlook such a flaw in logic, then what other points can we ignore just because we think the games are "implying" something? Edit: this comment was written before his timeline video, I did not know his final answer to the topic (as most didnt know).

[@fanOfMinecraft-UAs_channel]

Crying child dies, than after it and before missing children incident William kills Charlie. It makes sense, idk why does MatPat think about Elizabeth being first. Doesn't really make sense to me

[@SigilOfBaphomet]

@@fanOfMinecraft-UAs_channel Charlie has to die before Evan tho

[@fanOfMinecraft-UAs_channel]

@@SigilOfBaphomet They likely died in 2 different pizza places (Crying child at Fredbear's, and Charlie at Freddy's 0, from where withereds and puppet came), so actually it can't be confirmed like how I said it or how you said It can be both ways

[@SigilOfBaphomet]

@@fanOfMinecraft-UAs_channel but there’s no reason to think Evan would have the capacity to possess fredbear or psychic friend fredbear without Charlie, she has always been the “mother” of every possessed animatronic

[@munkin8144]

@@SigilOfBaphomet But then we run into the same problem with the thought of Elizabeth dying first. What motive would William have to kill Charlie if none of his kids are dead yet?

[@Carpale]

I feel like every time time we have a definitive answer to the lore we already have something that either shows it’s wrong or we get another plot hole. I started watching you ever since the Mike theory and it was amazing even if it’s not canon. Keep up the great work man! I’m excited for the 2 new parts of game theory and your other videos on them if you decide to make them!

[@Seba12322]

Happy that you made this video. I had a lot of gripes with the timeline, especially the beginning part. It was weird that he said he would include evidence and reference his sources but during the whole “Great Depression” and beginning of fredbears/whatever Henry was doing, he didn’t really cite anything concrete. Like you said felt very fan fiction-esc. Hope he touches up on some of this. I understand how hard it is to piece this story together and security breach, the books, and faz bear fright’s definitely didn’t help it’s case. Still I agree with some of matpat’s points and comments but that’s because those are kinda just excepted at this point, like MCA being in 1985

[@soomi5667]

Honestly I think I agree more with Mat’s take with the mediocre melodies. Idk just makes more sense to me. Don’t question this too much LOL. But, I will say it makes wayyyy more sense for CC to be first, and not Elizabeth. So good at pointing out that! Nice little video. It was really nice hearing you point out things that might be a little iffy.

[@jocosejpeg]

Fingers crossed Mat sees this. He has so much influence over this fandom's perception of what's canon and what isn't due to having a broad audience that too often takes his word as gospel, so there's a lot weighing on the accuracy of his timeline (which has some nice story ideas, but I swear to god he lifted the "young William being inspired" plot point from DSAF) I always think back to the era where EVERY other person was conviced BV was Mike or that the Toys weren't blatantly possessed because "MatPat said so and I don't really care to check," and I worry the same thing's gonna happen. His GTlive video about the jank character encyclopedia already has far more exposure than the other videos on this platform criticizing it. IMO the biggest revelation he needs to have is that Mike is the one we play as in FNAF 4 (since literally how could a comatose child see his own IV / pills or hear a phone call from like 10 years in the future in his nightmares), otherwise his timeline relies on information that just isn't compatible with what we know now. It's evident Mat's poured a metric tonne of time into this timeline from how long he's been taking about it, and it's clear as day that he genuinely does love this series regardless of whether people think he's milked it to death or not. I just don't that effort to go into another mid theory :/

[@synderthmc]

1:00 tbf, the only ones with a southern accent is nedbear and pig patch, and there isn't really anything southern about am elephant magician.

[@siresquawks]

Hippo has a more real and subtle folksy grandfather accent, and pig patch has a deep one. That leaves only happy and Orville who also has the traveling circus thing going on. Happy is the only one with no folksy towny feel.

[@synderthmc]

@@siresquawks oh yeah, forgot about pig boi

[@Talia_Foxx]

To go further off of why Elizabeth being first and Evan seeing it happen isn't possible, Baby clearly explains in Sister Location that Elizabeth was the only one in the room with her. That may not necessarily mean no one could have seen it from a separate room, but it's highly unlikely that this would have occurred in someone's line of sight.

[@Chillipeffer]

So uh, I know this video is old, but just came to a revelation about Nightmare Fredbear. He's the ONLY one with a 'stomach mouth' (aside from darkmare). BV has seen someone get put inside the Fredbear springlock suit. What if, using the principle of Occam's razor, BV saw that and thought Fredbear ate him without his head. Wow.

[@Dait_exe]

His episode two in the ultimate timeline says that the crying child died first though? He was debating the points against it with why Elizabeth should be first sure, but with what we saw in episode 2 of the timeline I don't think he actually believed she was first, but instead was just frustrated she wasn't because of the clues. Also wasn't the design of the mediocre's the main reason they were classified as Henry's creations? So to discount them like this as some group of nobody animatronics not related to William or Henry feels wrong. Although that could just be me.

[@tomasavendanozacarias5205]

like, matpat does not argue that elisabeth dies first, in his theory it goes Crying child, charlote, elisabeth, you just jumped to conclusions based on a single video and a livestream

[@GabrielOflTM]

On the topic of chica, it seems like all the main 4 rockstars are oddly similar to the nightmares so perhaps that could link to that being the original chica.

[@siresquawks]

Maybe. That said Jacko Chica a reskin of the original nightmare Chica has no accent so that’d be a little at odds with it.

[@arstotzkanplaguedoctor]

Matpat called it a "springtrap" suit instead of a springlock suit in that vid too :sob:

[@abbeysquidd]

I still, in the nicest way possible, don't know how MatPat thinks the crying child witnessed Elizabeth's death when it was confirmed that Elizabeth was alone in the room with Baby

[@Josiah-Justin]

Guys He’s Not At That Point Yet Stop Assuming!

[@finixmoon127]

Where was that confirmed ?

[@Josiah-Justin]

He Never Said The Crying Child Witnissed It!

[@abbeysquidd]

@@finixmoon127 when Circus Baby flat out stated there was one child in the room and Elizabeth said "Where did the other children go?"

[@abbeysquidd]

@@Josiah-Justin i'm not talking about his timeline now, I'm talking about his previous timelines/theories

[@MissOnana]

I firmly believe that CC was the first dead kid, and not just because it gives William a motivation for killing Charlie, although that IS bonus points. We see in the security puppet mini-game that all the kids have colored bands. It's my belief that those bands are part of the puppet's security system. Why does only that instance have this kind of security feature for the kid's safety? Because a kid already died at Freddy's. I believe the security system was Henry's response to what happened to CC, in an attempt to protect his daughter and other kids. It doesn't re-appear because it completely failed, and in a manner that lost Henry his daughter. I feel it got replaced by the facial recognition FNAF 2 mentions because of that failure.

[@tetrisbit]

i heavily agree with the fact that the start is very fanfiction-ish.

[@the_fenix_3247]

Good old title change xD

[@gdeveloper3309]

I have a bit more add to ur excellent video, i think matpat's timeline definitely needs a bit more work: chica being with mediocres: -puppet carver stating a bird was with the mediocres is also an interpretation of the story. personally speaking, i think the story makes more sense if it was a parallel to fnaf 6, an actual place we have evidence of someone owning and managing the business (like jack) and is also a place where you can mix and match random animatronics like having rockstar chica preforming with mediocre animatronics(fnaf 6 is also where they come from so that also strengthens this interpretation rather than it meaning chica is a part of the mediocre band) -matpat thinks nedd bear copied off fredbear, however as you pointed nedd bear copied off freddy fazbear (assuming the encyclopedia is true), which not only doesn't support matpat's theory, but actually goes against it, placing nedbear and the rest of the mediocres (assuming they were all made at the same time) after the creation of freddy fazbear, meaning chica can't be from a previous band before freddy's because the band didn't exist yet to rip off the freddy's band elizabeth being the first victim: -bv "what he saw" being the scooping based off nightmare fredbear's stomach design is based on the assumption/theory that bv is the protagonist of the fnaf 4 nightmares(most people think it was micheal afton, and by that point the scooping could've happen between any time between 83 to fnaf 4 gameplay might be 93 or past that to give the dreamer stomach claw nightmares but then again its weird that its on fredbear for some reason) -circus baby is most likely a she. whatever bv saw probably has something to do with the he in the "You know what will happen if he catches you!" line. as well whatever he saw probably should relate to the golden suits as well that he's so scared of. How fredbears came to be in matpat's original timeline video: -its weird for william to get inspired and go make fursuits while henry has a rival company, when by matpat's own logic, fredbear's jaw design looks like henry designed fredbear so they must've been working at the same establishment at one point -matpat says william and henry combined william's fredbear's and henry's genius of chica's party world and launched under the new name of fredbear's family dinner. we have fredbear and friends, fredbear 's singin show, fredbear's family dinner, but no just "fredbear's" so william's resturant must've been fredbear's family dinner all along -he also says whoever is experiencing the nightmares in fnaf 4(while showing bv on screen) might've seen original fursuits of the original animatronics at one point to inspire their 5 fingered nightmare form. I think personally its just because whoever is having the nightmares sees the nightmares as once people (maybe inspired by bullies with masks or kids in suits) the original 4 having fur suits doesn't make much sense though when they have henry building animatronics for fredbear's in his point of the timeline -matpat says william made the original fredbear fursuits from the security breach posters based on william appearing as glitchtrap. william made glitchtrap because serial killers have an attachment to what they create and its due to william creating the glitchtrap fur suit, meaning he created the original suits. I don't think that's right. if anything the attachment if its real is to spring bonnie in general, william could've seen the original fursuit and make it his avatar instead of making it, or its an entirely new fursuit with a little coat inspired by the spring bonnie suit he used to lure kids with(it being a brand new fursuit like vanny's) I think matpat is guilty of the theory crimes: -using dubious cannon like the character encyclopedia for neddbear and the novels for william's jealousy of henry -creating a whole dubious chunk of timeline with chica's party world largely based on speculation of a sketchy interpretation of a faz frights book -drawing from real life events(drawing parallels to chucky cheese getting another company as further proof for the melodies, i can let the fredbear's singing friends thing slide though) -a lot of storytelling and bridging the gaps with speculation (yeah him giving a whole narrative of billy afton and his raging jealousy kinda threw me off guard and which also gets william's personality from a dubious cannon the novels which also kinda contradict how fredbears came to be as it was a cofounded thing in the novels which matpat uses but whatever) #saveFnaftimelinepart2

[@ypk9604]

Maybe next time don't try to jump the gun and make a video about things that he hasn't said and wait for the video. This video would have done good to go over the points he presented in part one, discuss them, and leave it at that.

[@rannynihilius8481]

I kinda feel like the video is ragebait for everyone who watched part 2 in the future and just bait for people who weren't happy with part 1 or/and have a hate bøner for Mat. Just a thought i'm not like saying that it was his intention to do so but the vid gives me that vibe sort of.

[@NakanoMiku-chan-z2m]

I personally prefer the order being Crying Child then Charlotte ( as a result of CC death ) then Lizzy. I think if CC dies first and Fredbear was designed by Henry it would give William a reason to Kill Charlotte that reason being he wanted revenge for his son's death. Then CC goes on to possess Golden Freddy and maybe that is how William discovers remnant

[@daisukedshinyhunter226]

Another thing that proves Elizabeth being the first one to die wrong is the fact that the real fnaf 4 nights (the ones afton either induced Michael or the crying child into) only have four animatronics (freddy, bonnie, chica and foxy) When you see the map of the whole facility in sister location you can clearly see only 4 dots (4 animatronics) in the place where Afton tested the Nightmare endos into someone This could also be what the "remember what you saw" line is, just afton reminding the crying child via the fredbear plush the nights that he was put into by Afton in that facility Also we know this aren't the fnaf 4 gameplay because the whole only 4 animatronics and the hallucinations of the flower base and phone guys audio not making sense in the context of it being an actual real place And also the one put through this had to be Michael or the crying child cause of the whole 1983 code revealing the cameras in the fnaf 4 bedroom implying these where used in 1983 and it only makes sense if they were used as a tests of the nighmare endos because the crying child's bedroom doesn't match the one from the fnaf 4 gameplay Oh yeah and the existence of the nightmare endos are proved by their appearance in fnaf vr

[@New3DSLuigi364]

Honestly. . . I Mainly See The Catalyst of The Franchise's Main Antagonist's Descent into Insanity; being the Bite of 83; [more Narrative satisfying than just him ALWAYS being Guano Insane] I Still say we have YET to get ANY Games in the timeline that happen BEFORE 1983; Which we get from FNAF4. . . Seriously; the Reason It's hard to come up with a Timeline for this series; is; WE KNOW ABSOLUTELY Nothing about the very Beginning; or which game is the FIRST to happen in Chronological Order in the timeline; Since the Earliest Recorded Date within the franchise; is 1983; Which we see in FNAF4; Other than that; we know NOTHING about anything that happens BEFORE 1983; Aka the year where "The Bite of '83" Happened!!

[@titan7789]

I hope that MatPat sees this,so he can either change his theory or disprove yours, would be pretty cool.

[@matthewmatthew981]

This is why the Ooftroop timeline is the only true canon.

[@bloxxybox2576]

MatPat saying that Elizabeth's death was the first thing that happened due to the stomach mouths on the Nightmares but like- no??? Michael literally shows proof HIMSELF that he was the one who saw Nightmare Fredbear, going off of the drawing in the logbook hell, if you think about it, it doesn't even have to be linked to Elizabeth's death, it could've been referring to Michael's own "demise" due to the scooper plus, why would it be on Nightmare Fredbear & Nightmare _specifically_ ? unless they're a combination of the tragedies that Michael remembers and has either witnessed or experienced BV's death, Elizabeth's death and his own

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

Omg, a theorist makes a theory that's not all that clear, because theories aren't always right!!!

[@Jumpyman_thegamerYT]

Literally doesn't make sense. Mike is not the FNAF crying child, as scott himself has confirmed this.

[@titan7789]

Oh,so that's why he said that Elizabeth's death happened first, huh. (I didn't watch the video yet,lol) But the logbook happens after he got scooped,so I can see why he has nightmares about that, lol.

[@bloxxybox2576]

@@Jumpyman_thegamerYT I never said that Mike was the Crying Child where in the entirety of my comment did you get that from

[@bloxxybox2576]

@@ukaszwalczak1154 to be fair I just wanted to say my opinion on it with my own theory

[@PatTheFox]

IMPORTANT! Why is no one talking about this?In the fnaf 3 freadbear minigame,freadbear has a weird pixel on his belly which strongly suggests that there is a second way to get into the suit (or maybe just quickly repair freadbear beacuse in real robots the most important things are placed in the belly most of the times) Which would completly explain the bellymouth in nightmare freadbear which makes sense beacuse NF was shown in fnaf 4,few months after fnaf 3 Sorry if "bellly" isn't a good word for this theory but i'm Polish

[@grimace9670]

I love how in matpat’s fnaf encyclopedia reaction he’s so nonchalant about Gregory possibly not being a robot, mean while people have been losing sleep since he posted his gregbot video

[@personexisting123]

I mean he’s made it fairly clear that he’s not a huge fan of the idea, Matpat just says what he thinks is right, doesn’t mean he likes it

[@ComradeBobcat39]

Well the mediocre melodies have to be early in the timeline because of the mask that the children wear in the happiest day mini games since it's the exact layout as fredbears in the FNAF 4 mini games and also the very old school way they are made with the batteries on the outside

[@siresquawks]

The issue is... Happiest day doesn't actually match Fredbear's layout. It's a rectangle with tables, but door to Fredbear's is in the middle, there's a room to the right that's missing, the stage is missing, and the MM masks aren't in 4 at all.

[@ComradeBobcat39]

@@siresquawksbut it is since both are long rectangular places with the same party tables same balloon colors all the mask matches the MM's other the the blue one plus it fits in with the FNAF 4 was working with the other past games in mind The exit is where fredbears stage is in the FNAF 4 mini game so if you go into it you won't get the good ending so you go away from fredbear and the bite to give the crying child the cake giving him the birthday that was taken from him I thought this was all agreed on like 6 years ago?

[@Narnes64]

I think the actual biggest piece of evidence is BV DOESNT SEE NIGHTMARE FREDBEAR. Only Michael saw nightmare Fredbear. Although in that case it would be a cool work around as it would fuse both the deaths of Elizabeth and BV into one animatronic or Nightmare

[@potato1094]

The character encyclopedia confirms that the BV saw the nightmares in FNAF 4

[@ietmyself1405]

@@potato1094 fuck that book

[@Narnes64]

@@potato1094 ok and? It’s the character encyclopedia. The security logbook already told us that Michael was the one who saw nightmare Fredbear in his dreams. The encyclopedia with all of its errors doesn’t really retcon this

[@potato1094]

@@Narnes64 maybe they both saw them, maybe bv saw the other animatronics but Micheal saw nightmare fredbear

[@gedar205]

@@potato1094 yeah, I think both Michael and BV experienced the FNAF 4 gameplay

[@MOSCOWDEATH161]

7:14 but this is exactly what Matpat was saying? And, i could be wrong, but im sure he said that the crying child dies before Elizabeth in the actual timeline recounting

[@siresquawks]

yeah, I basically made this video because of a tangent he had in his encyclopedia reaction about all of the evidence for Elizabeth being first, and then said the timeline was "finalized" which lead me to believe that he was going to argue Elizabeht was first.

[@MOSCOWDEATH161]

@@siresquawks fair

[@uzamat5274]

@@siresquawks good ass way to explain your thought process. I was about to comment the same thing about his video only to realize that it came out like 5 days after this one xD

[@trumpaigaming7632]

It seems to me like matpat doesn't want to admit that William is pure evil. Like in all his theory videos about the Afton family he takes some kind of sympathetic angle with William in relation to his kids, like saying he really cared about his kids deep down and wants to put BV back together, or in this case that he started with good intentions, but went down a dark path. In reality William needs no reason to be the way he is other that sadistic tendencies and a desire to dominate, as is the case with real life serial killers. It likely does stem from an abusive childhood, as implied by the books, but it's never portrayed sympathetically and is always presented as more of an explanation than an excuse and never takes away from the evil of William Afton. We also know that William doesn't care about any of his kids. He is abusive to Elizabeth in TFC and is likely to have manipulated her in court to win a battle for custody against his ex wife as shown by Security Breach. He neglects Mike and the Bite Victim in the FNaF 4 minigames, and also is shown to be emotionally abusive and manipulative towards the latter through the Fredbear plush. And for the final incing on the cake, if William truly is the man in the Midnight Motorist minigame, then he is also implied to be physically abusive to either Michael or the Bite Victim. He does not care about Michael, the Bite Victim, or even Elizabeth. He is just an evil and sadistic man who starts out killing for the fun of it, and then likely leaps on the opportunity to make himself more powerful upon finding out that the animatronics are posessed and through either he or Henry discovering remnant.

[@siresquawks]

I never said William was *pure* evil, no due I exactly even think that’s where he’s going or was. William is sadistic and cruel, and the frights and silver eyes versions are complete pieces of shit, but the the game one has his own twisted logic. Tormenting countless kids to do one “right” by his logic is justified. The dark things to make and control and twist things into his perfect family are what make him a freaky villain IMO.

[@trumpaigaming7632]

@@siresquawks Interesting. I haven't really heard him try to justify himself in the games, although I may be forgetting or missing something.

[@jasongrayson4945]

I am so glad that in Part 2 he put the crying child’s death first.

[@kalkuttadrop6371]

FNAF 1 is set in 1992 based on the week days. MatPat only picked 1993 because of the IRL incident in his original video. Hope he catches this

[@siresquawks]

Actually, ‘93 is brought up multiple times by Fnaf ar’s faz facts. Stuff like “the most dangerous Job in 93’ was a security guard”.

[@bluefreddy5766]

Unused faz-facts “Fazbear's "Twisted" Pizza Recipe was voted "Most Yummy!" by 6 out of 10 children in every survey from 1988-1993!” “In 1993, the most dangerous profession in the United States was actually night security guard.”

[@legoboy7107]

Wow, we still have vestiges of that supposed real-life connection coincidence, huh lol.

[@kalkuttadrop6371]

@@siresquawks That reads more like Matpat said 1993 so many times they eventually just rolled with it, because for that to work the week would be Tuesday-Monday which doesn’t make any sense

[@kalkuttadrop6371]

@@bluefreddy5766 And that’s unused which could mean it was caught as incorrect and cut

[@codeguy7309]

If you've seen his videos, this different character vibe is something from the books. It seems that Chica was part of the mediocre gang.

[@siresquawks]

Honestly, I feel mat’s stretching on the whole puppet carver connections. All it says it weird bird thing, and loosely implies the general mediocre Melodies if you stretch it a tad. Considering that Scott only gives outlines for the stories from what we know, it’s hard to say if the gauge descriptions mean anything. This is also the only time in the franchise this is ever implied.

[@matthewmatthew981]

3:54 I also don't understand why Matpat continues to use the word "scooped" here? Like, that's just incorrect terminology? The Scooper is one device with one purpose, and Baby's claw is another device with another purpose. Why would he keep using the same term?

[@Trontotario]

William created the funtimes to be murder bots, but when it ended in disaster with his own child dying instead he ditched the idea of using animatronics and use more traditional methods.

[@zinmaalmi292]

Yeah I’m on the same train as you are, I feel like Elizabeth dies after Fnaf4, dare I say it, I strongly think the crying child is the first death in the timeline, closely followed by Charlie’s death of course.

[@janno7214]

That order of events should be common knowledge atp. It's by far the one that makes the most sense from both a narrative and evidence standpoint

[@supertrike5893]

Agreed

[@damkylan3]

There's also the fact that the perception of the nightmares potentially has nothing to do with CC, but with Michael, who would certainly have a reason to see stomach-mouths, provided the theory that the nightmares are happening during FNAF1 is accurate. However, that still comes with issues. It raises the question why only Fredbear has it (maybe because it's the only other animatronic that killed another sibling? Kinda weak, I know), and on a personal level, it annoys the piss out of me by implying that the events of SL predate FNAF1. lol

[@UltraCenterHQ]

My man Sire really made a theory video _about a theory video_

[@siresquawks]

Yes

[@hioman]

You know, matpat's "Elizabeth died first" argument made enough sense that I could at least see where he's coming from, but then he finished it with, "Elizabeth dying from a robot Afton made to murder children, prompted him to murder children" Actually, now that I think about it, I think I can still see where he got lost. He might be thinking that William accidentally discovered remnant and made the funtimes to harvest it, but forgot that Afton would have to murder someone or a kid would have to accidentally die, but the only way someone would accidentally die (that we know of) is Evan

[@cheyannegiles9772]

he didn't say elizabeth died first??? he explicitly called out why he placed cc's death before elizabeth's in his part 2. why are all of you saying he said something he didn't say?

[@hioman]

@@cheyannegiles9772 this comment was made before his new video

[@Ben7892]

@@cheyannegiles9772 3:15

[@NETBases]

Sir, this Video is a bit confusing and a bit aimless. I feel as those you're jumping from point to point without taking time to properly explain yourself. I don't have enough time to even think upon your points before you're onto the next one and you lack any definite statements. I honestly cannot tell what the video is in service of. I've tried to rewatch it, over and over and I'm trying to understand what you're saying, and please don't take this as me saying you're wrong because I have no idea. All I want to say is this: check your script. Make sure your points are well laid out and you don't have so many run on sentences. Breathe and take time to explain yourself, if you'd like, offer counterpoints that can help others see where you're coming from. Lay out for yourself what your video sets out to do. Also, please more clearly label your video with a title that makes sense; having a video labeled, "I'm glad this Video was wrong," and immediately starting on a rant with no explanation is going to confuse anyone. I just found your video, so no disrespect, but I believe there is a lot you can do to improve and make this easier to understand.

[@CharlieSimmer27]

if mike is the main character of fnaf4 and his nightmares are happening after the deaths of both his siblings it would explain the open mouth animatronic design and the hospital easter eggs

[@Lavender_Fox]

He's gonna pull William's first springlock failure from the books to explain how he learned about remnant..

[@siresquawks]

Maybe.

[@soonahero]

Of course nedd bear being a Freddy knockoff is evidence for his theory. Imagine if Freddy was a nedd bear ripoff

[@siresquawks]

Huh?

[@soonahero]

@@siresquawks 1:45-1:58

[@thekeeper1287]

I like shycrows theory. That baby's was created after 1985. Elizabeth dies. And years later after fnaf 1, afton dies and then Michael dies and goes searching for him but doesnt find him cause he's locked behind the wall in fnaf 1 location

[@DARESTDEVIL]

Right, here's my thoughts. I think the silver eyes trilogy does have important info to solve these games, the freddy files points it's importance out to us. However the fazbear frights series I don't think is important to the game lore, I think it's a continuation of the book universe and perhaps in security breach books we could meet the silver eyes gang again as well as the new charlie and figure out if she's a robot too. In terms of the timeline of the games here's how I see it, the bite victim dies first which makes William depressed and promises to rebuild his son which results in the possible creation of patient 46. He feels unhappy still like Henry in the books, instead of killing himself, he kills Charlie out of jealousy of his partner. Henry retires. Midnight motorist has Michael breaking out his window in a failed attempt to save Charlie, with 2 bear footprints (golden freddy/Evan afton) leading him there. William's jealousy continously grows, he murders 5 kids in 1985, then another 5 in 1987. FNAF 2 phone calls mentions a golden suit was stolen and we know william used the springlock suit to murder susie and he hid it in the FNAF 1 pizzeria too, so we can also likely assume the FNAF 3 phone calls take place in 1987 too. 1993, freddy fazbear's pizza finally closes down for 30 years. Right after it closes it's doors, circus baby pizza world opens "after the unfortunate closing of freddy fazbear pizza, it's clear the stage was set no pun intended." We were told by phone guy that 1985 location didn't close down, it was left to rot and the 87 location was just gonna have a fresh restart. This also makes sense technology wise, since the funtimes are so advanced, having them come right after the shiny FNAF 2 robots equipped with criminal databases makes much more sense on a logical standpoint. That's just my overall thoughts on matpat's new shenanigans

[@higueraft571]

There's likely more but to add immediatelyr... The Trilogy is a 100% separate Timeline. Unless we get into HOMESTUCK level time fuckery Book Charlie and Game Michael wont meet. We arent sure if 46 even IS a robot. Why would Michael know about Charlie's death. He's been going PRIOR to that night. He likely wouldnt know much about Charlie, or care, if he even was aware of her... Evan is absolutely *NOT* a Canon name. It's a brute-forced "answer" in a Crossword, that spat out "Eva". The closest being "Garret", and that as well is shaky as fuck. Why would William position an animatronic to guide Michael to a killing, and be EXTREMELY pissed he did exactly as expected?? Two suits were used, not just Spring Bonnie. Circus Baby's Pizza World *CANNOT* open after Fnaf 1. Elizabeth dies just before opening day, she's a child. FNAF 1 takes place a whole decade after 4's minigames, meaning she'd be at MINIMUM a teen, likely an adult. How I see it: 1983 - William's neglect and Abuse comes to a head, when Michael shoves his brother's head in Fredbear's mouth. Killing him. William is enraged by this, scaring Henry into creating the Security Puppet, as William takes his rage out on his son, blaming Henry's creation for killing CC. Gifted a sudden chance by fate itself, he sees Henry's daughter locked out, her Guardian indisposed. He strikes, leaving her to die in the Alleyway before driving off. Michael breaks out and bolts past an animatronic made to terrify him, to "that place again". Nightmares' real world counterparts are or have already been created, to torment Michael. Noticing the odd behavior of the Puppet, sometime after, Afton's interest is peaked, he concludes it's possessed, and sometching about it's circumstances is the key. 1985 - He begins experimenting with Remnant, causing the 1985 MCI. He confirms his hypothesis. Every single child stuffed in the suits possessed it. The location shuts down. Most likely same year the Simultaneous Springlock Failures occur in another location. 1986 - Circus Baby's Pizza World is set to open, a front for his means to obtain Remnant for further experimentation, however his daughter Elizabeth dies during a test run, prompting him to close down the location. 1987 - Jeremy gets Bite of 87'd, MCI 2 happens, William using the Fredbear suit (as his first means failed spectacularly). *Presumably* Henry gets framed for it. Toys are scrapped (unknown fate). 1992-1993 - FNAF 1 location closes, William breaks in to collect MCI Remnant unharrassed, gets cornered by Souls, hides in Spring Bonnie, gets Springlock'd. 1993-2022 - Sister Location takes place, Ennard is freed, Michael gets scooped and possesses himself, possibly with CC's aid, much like Afton with TOYSNHK's aid. 2022-2023 - FNAF 3 takes place, Afton is Freed, continues on...

[@DARESTDEVIL]

@@higueraft571 your probably correct on most things there, I was just getting my overall thoughts didn't actually tried to work on a theory, mainly because I'm tired of having to make 1000 word posts analysing so much of this lore. It doesn't really have a massive impact on the timeline which date Elizabeth died in. It's probably 87, because the toys got scrapped for parts, possibly to make ennard and that's why the funtimes are possessed, because of the kids William killed in 2. Elizabeth just has to die after a freddy's closes and since FNAF 1 is the pizzeria that closes for a very long time and the company never reopens for 30 years. I had assumed that would make sense, but that's probably wrong. The one thing I definitely disagree with though is that the silver eyes trilogy are not connected to the game lore at all. This is wrong. "Thoughtful fans should take a closer a look at these pages as they impact the story of the games aswell." This doesn't only mean Henry and William's relationship. The sound illusion discs were invented by the books, William afton was a name first shown in the books. Henry emily was first introduced in the books. THE NIGHTMARE ANIMATRONICS ARE SHOWN ON THE COVER OF THE TWISTED ONES, YET THET MAKE NO APPEARANCE AT ALL. unlike the silver eyes and the fourth closet where funtime freddy does indeed show up in the fourth closet. So why put a nightmare animatronic on the front cover if he makes no appearance. That's the thing, the books are connected. The twisted animatronics and the nightmare animatronics are technically the exact same thing, they just don't look the same. "A vantage point, something that isn't entirely what it appears to be" Scott.

[@bluefreddy5766]

Interesting, however the story GGY implies that Gregory is Clint 46, the therapist find records of 46 great childhood something patient 46 wouldn’t have if they were a robot.

[@DARESTDEVIL]

@@bluefreddy5766 yeah, it was just a possibility that I put out there, it's why I added possible. Mainly because if the BV was recreated into a robot as FNAF 4 implies, he must of been around for a long ass time as William gon springlocked in 1993. Since glitchtrap trusts patient 46 more than vanny. It makes more sense to me. Also, gregory is american

[@TheWizardMus]

I personally believe that Charlotte was the first given that she's already implied to be an important figure in FNaF World which takes place after the CC's death and her death would make sense for what CC 'saw' since her death occures outside Fredbears and that seemed to be CC's normal haunt. Maybe she was killed because Henry was a good parent who paid attention to his daughter and that was 'distracting' him from either the business or teaching Afton robotics. I personally never was one for the "William was a good father" given that he never did anything about Micheal bullying the CC or locking CC in his room(whichever of the two did it) or locking CC in the back room of Fredbears(definitely William). At best I think he was 'nice' to Elizabeth after CC died or before to groom her to be a proto-vanny.

[@siresquawks]

The issue is that Fnaf 4 and world, while important, it’s hazy and loose. It’s hard to say that Fnaf world is directly chronologically connected to 4 as it could just be that Fnaf world happens after Charlie’s died and finds the bite victims soul.

[@TheWizardMus]

@@siresquawks a good point because World is so floaty on the timeline but also one of the best explanations for the "dying dialouge" from Psychic Friend Fredbear is the Puppet(since "we are still your friends" references the plushies which William and Mike by the hospital bed can't see)

[@oldchannel3659]

My problem with Elizabeth dying after the MCI is: 1: The Sister's Room is there but the sister is nowhere to be seen. Every other important Afton Family member is in the minigames, we see Mike and William, so where is the sister? 2: The Underground Facility had to be made by 1983 as William is observing Fredbear's and its surrounding area in that facility. The only important things we see happen in that area is FNAF 4's minigames implying he's observing Crying Child. The facility was made for the Funtime Animatronics so they'd have to, at the very least, be getting built at the time. 3: The Springlock Suits were retired seemingly after the Bite of '83 and we know Circus Baby's had a springlock suit meaning it has to be before the suits were retired. 4: Handunit's line about the location opening after Freddy's closed is likely refering to Entertainment and Rentals, not Pizza World. 5: I try to avoid using teasers as it seems like things can change from teaser to game, let's not forget what happened with FNAF 4. I try to purely use evidence in-game and nothing in-game specifies the gap between Pizza World and Entertainment and Rentals. I don't think it's before Charlie's murder, Henry clearly states that comes first, but it seems very likely that it comes prior to FNAF 4's minigames.

[@umargul6048]

The Sister could literally be ANYWHERE in the minigames. She could be the Pigtail Girl, because there's no evidence to support the theory that they're two separate people. And Circus Baby's was opened solely by Afton, so there was no one to say no to him having springlock suits.

[@abdurrahmandureng]

​@@umargul6048 There is evidence though we see a girl different from the pigtails girl get taken by baby

[@umargul6048]

@@abdurrahmandureng And what is that evidence?

[@abdurrahmandureng]

@@umargul6048 It's from the sister location minigame

[@abdurrahmandureng]

@@umargul6048 Do you not remember?

[@PikachuGamerSMT]

I hate how literally everyone makes MatPat’s theories 100% Canon despite BEING theories (like Ballora being the mum and others)

[@SolarFlaregamer]

“You won’t get tired of my voice will you?” Fnaf world players hearing that line:

[@bossco839]

Im 90% sure that Mat is going to say that Micheal is not an Afton

[@siresquawks]

The thought scares me.

[@bossco839]

@@siresquawks same

[@rickyplaysyt4322]

This was a genuine jumpscare.

[@bossco839]

@@siresquawks thank god we were wrong

[@BooklikesBFDI]

Honestly Scott went with the flow for the lore, we can't make a coherent timeline, some flaws can't be solved.

[@siresquawks]

Eh. I don't agree with that. This isn't just "some flaw" this is him spiting the entire lead up to a game intentionally or not.

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

The fact that this video exists just because you wanted to Win over a "Theories" is pretty Sad. But, Despite your Personality. This is a good video.

[@siresquawks]

I have no clue what you’re trying to argue. Do you mean I’m trying to win over the theorists?

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

@@siresquawks Well, English is not my native language. But what i'm trying to say is you made this video because you wanted to Own Mat from your Assumptions bout him "Elizabeth died first" timeline. Which it's Funny since he uploaded part 2. But that doesn't matter, Mat owned you instead but i have to give you credit you're Reasonable man to own up to your mistakes (your assumptions on Mat), unlike some White Creature that aren't worth watching his videos. Please don't pay attention to my passive-aggressive comment, keep up your work on the videos i enjoying them so far by binge-watching.

[@willowallen4688]

With how much has been retconned, Matt's just trying his best

[@siresquawks]

Yeah, but blatantly getting something wrong that wasn’t retconned still needs to be talked about.

[@skelebonez1349]

I’d agree with you on the fredbears singing show point but.. it contains things that would’ve BEEN popular at that time. Firstly, the record player is specific and was made in the early 1900’s (before 1910 and after 1901)and stayed popular for the next couple decades, I think a total of 37 or 39 years. Second thing was general admission being 50 cents which match prices that were in the 30’s to 40’s since if I remember correctly, houses only cost thousands and foods much cheaper compared to today. The black and white with the cartoon aesthetic could be thrown off as a stylistic choice but it’s also just how the bear looks more realistic compared to what we seen before. While cartoony yes, it has things such as bear claws and contains things an actual bear would have. So, while sparse, it’s actually very likely that fredbears singing show was in the 1930’s or 40’s (maybe 50’s but I feel we’re pushing it a bit.)

[@siresquawks]

Eh I was mixed on the singing show thing.

[@skelebonez1349]

To add onto this with the things that woulda been popular at the time, he’s not wrong in the bear performance shows also being popular at the time which further connects And while this piece of evidence could be seen as something thrown out of nowhere, I wanna bring it up because it’s connection feels important. Freddy from fnaf 1’s music box was toreador March, which was a thing I think that was made in the early 1900’s or maybe late 1800’s.(I believe 1900’s last I checked but I could be wrong) This could connect to the whole poster, with the song being played being toreador March which is associated with Freddy

[@skelebonez1349]

@@siresquawks I don’t blame you for it, though I feel like Matpat definitely didn’t bring enough evidence to the table like the ones I mentioned for example to make his argument stronger. Especially with the things like toreador which (I wanna clarify I don’t think it had a purpose from the beginning, but more so that maybe steel wool is planning to give it a thematic purpose.)

[@tmills4999]

I feel like the only reason in FNAF 4 there is what is to be presumed Elizabeth’s room is to show the player the broken Mangle on the floor. It was used to tie up all loose ends for the dream theory that was intended at that time. Due to uproar Scott continued the series. I do not like to dismiss Mattpatt’s theories because I feel like they’re influential to Scott. I feel like there has been many times he’s tailored the story to them.

[@Super-wx6br]

This is the first time i noticed this but Matpat really looks like John Cena if he had an enlarged face

[@TMS-Oddbot]

I know you edited the title, and that's good...in a way, but I just find it funny that you literally show him saying that Elizabeth can't be the first victim and then say the exact same thing as if you are in disagreement with MatPat. In a way, you actually weren't wrong. You just didn't add anything new to the conversation because you both thought, and eventually said, the same thing. You jumped the gun a bit to argue with a strawman. But I guess he asked for thoughts. You still look a little funny and hopefully still would have, to me, if I saw this before seeing his actual theory.

[@siresquawks]

I mean can you blame me when he literally said shit like “everything seems to point to Elizabeth being first… And the Tim lies already finalized)

[@ellolads8127]

i don’t get this, in the clip u showed mat literally explains how elizebeth can’t be the first death and then u give more evidence and say that he’s wrong for saying she died first when he didn’t say that

[@davidbraccini4770]

About the mediocre melodies it could be that indeed Fazbear entertainment owned them, gave the license to an other company since they weren’t popular and then mike brought them back. You pointed out the fact that Nedd Bear is called a “Freddy ripoff” but I don’t think the encyclopedia is a very reliable source since it got some things wrong.

[@SociallyRazed]

Feel like taking the books to literal is a bad things from my perspective Tale from the Pizzaplex and Fazbear frights just feel like stories you tell around a camp fire to scare the younger kids. They don’t seem real.

[@siresquawks]

Except GGY and Bobbiedots yeah.

[@Irina-lv5bd]

Imo the order of deaths was the crying child, Charlie, the missing children incident, and then Elizabeth. I think the main issue of Elizabeth being first is that the technology makes no damn sense. After the missing children's incident William deemed that it wouldn't be safe to go back into the establishment since there was an investigation. Or he became a prime suspect. He didn't want to get caught. But from him observing the withered animatronics in the FNaF 2 location since the MCI was at the "old location", he got curious since he noticed their odd behavior. I think it was from William taking the night shift before Jeremy that he discovered remnant or just that the old animatronics were possessed. Then he makes the Funtime Animatronics after the events of FNaF 2. The incident that caused the FNaF 2 location to go on lockdown was William conducting his last experiment to see how remnant worked. That's why those bodies are just on the floor and not in suits and why the Funtimes are designed to trap kids inside of them. Oh and I think the reason why nightmare Fredbear has a stomach mouth is because it's actually from Michael's perspective. Michael knew how his sister died and he also feels the guilt of killing his brother. That's also why Nightmare is just recolored Fredbear.

[@gray1013]

Thank you friend, you’re single-handedly keeping me interested the continuation of Fnaf :) Keep it up!

[@survivordave]

I never took the company names in Pizzeria Simulator to be the developers of the animatronics they were selling. I think they were middlemen buying used (or perhaps in some cases new) animatronics and then reselling them. Or perhaps they were shell companies run by Henry. He clearly is Lefty's maker but you can buy Lefty from one of the companies if you don't salvage him.

[@hydrasalesman9629]

I remember a sprite in the outside areas of the fnaf 4 mini games that looks identical to Elizabeth in the secret Baby mini game. A girl in a pink shirt, with blonde pigtails and green eyes.

[@TheHyperTuber-VantaBlack]

Part 2 of the Timeline dropped and MatPat did not put Elizabeth as the first death it seems. He puts Elizabeth's death as after the Missing Children's Incident of the FNaF2 location. I'm not a master FNaF Theorist, lol. I'm just reporting what's been said.

[@valentinoricaza5696]

yeah i think that's why the title says that

[@josephmontoya6815]

either of you can be right. this sewries is so convaluted that the only way we will ever know is if or when scott just comes out and tells us

[@secretcastle1380]

I think the idea is that that since Henry was the Orignal creators of the Fnaf 1 animatronics, and also most likely built the rockstar and mediocre melody for Michael Aston to use. And if Henry built the rockstar chica he would most likely make as a true to form version that hasn’t changed overtime like with the toys and Funtime animatronics, fnaf 1 chica still doesn’t have a voice for UCN

[@SpiritProductions99]

Ryetoasts timeline makes a bit more sense then Matpats- but we won’t know unless we get a 100% yes from Scott or the current owner of FNAF

[@heatherisnotcool]

lmao the community is already here to flame the theory that isn't even out yet, classic

[@siresquawks]

I mean he did talk about the theory saying it was "Finalized." this is how it's going to be.

[@joshquatch2980]

If we need to have an excuse for the "remember what you saw" lines said to CC in FNAF 4, which to me is the biggest piece of evidence for Elizabeth dying first and something that goes unexplained if she didn't, maybe it could have something to do with him witnessing a springlock failure? Like, he was there with his dad after hours, or like snuck out to the pizzeria after hours, and witnessed an employee getting spring trapped, and this is why he's afraid of specifically the golden suits (which is why only Forebear and Nightmare have the stomach mouths, which I admit isn't the *cleanest* analogy to being spring trapped, but if you squint it could fit). This could be why William wasn't at home too often, as he was dealing with PR issues or something, why he would make the golden plush cameras if it was CC sneaking out and seeing this, and maybe if it was two employees who got killed in the forebear and spring bonnie suit, that could be where the shadow animatronics come from (remember them?). I don't think it's the perfect explanation, but tbh, there is no perfect explanation in FNAF, so this would be better than nothing

[@beef3442]

At least Matpat tried, with how this series is at this point I feel like everyone is just wrong

[@lillolli]

1:51 actually It can't be anywhere in the timeline because every game takes place In a moment after Henry and William start working together and when that happened it's logical that the animatronics of henry become property of afton too and viceversa. So if henry built nedd bear only in fnaf 6 it doesn't make sense for the copyright to strike on it because every ineration of freddy fazbear was born in a time where will and Henry were cooperating together

[@lillolli]

Sorry for the bad English, I'm Italian, I just realized my mistakes now 😅

[@t3mm73fernandez5]

This video aged poorly lol

[@PieNumber4]

Chica: *I was the first* Theorist: Hm. Yeah, no.

[@siresquawks]

To be fair that's seemingly about the MCI not the legacy of murders in general.

[@PieNumber4]

@@siresquawks Yeah, that's fair

[@Mukuro_Hoshimiya]

Guys, he litterally was saying there's all the evidence for her dying first but said he said it doesn't make sense when you bring in the motive

[@DanielSilva-sq4tj]

did you put matt saying “this doesn’t make sense (elizabeth’s death)” but continue to disagree… ? like, you are agreeing…

[@MBdynamoBostik]

Apparently if you take off Freddy's black hat and black bow-tie and replace them with a red hat and a red and yellow tie...he is Nedd Bear now.

[@akronixileo4459]

Henry owned and created Fredbear, Spring Bonnie and the main band. He was the founder of fazbear ent. Afton owned only Afton Robotics LLC but he worked in Fredbear's when they where working together.

[@siresquawks]

This is still unclear. Who created what is arguable.

[@akronixileo4459]

@@siresquawks Freddy files Ultimate edition proves

[@akronixileo4459]

@@siresquawks Also henry calls the animatronics "the prisons of my creations" -

[@zelz3011]

I won't get tired of her voice. Damn... ~ Eliza-First. See I used to think that if you can get this to happen you sort of speedrun the timeline and a lot of stuff makes sense. It's just getting it to happen first which seems like the problem. ... Was she really Mangle before everything? And this is why 4 is so weird. Honestly I don't know if we even get to go into Micheals room but at the same time we actually do at least see who is likely them the Foxy Bro so the fact we don't see Eliz we know William and the Wife is gone. Sigh... It really leaves 2 possibilities. 1: She's dead. 2: She's with the wife. I feel like with the Mangle in the room the original intention might have been 1 but now it might have just become 2 and that would happen until well the gaslighting and manipulation that gets Ms. Afton killed. ~~ Here's one thing that makes it hard for me to believe the CC/Evan saw Elizabeth die. Unless Baby is just bad at counting I might be simping for her too much. But she was counting the children and when one existed yeah. Also wouldn't he react? Why wasn't there some sort of widespread panic. Or at least a question. I know their crying personality might make them the boy who cried wolf(Twisted) but ahh... I just don't know if that event was actually seen by anyone. ~~~ "My Name's Elizabeth AHH." I guess because of how fast the MCI maybe is. AHHH! I was like maybe she could be 3rd or somewhere inbetween. It's hard to tell do we even for sure know if there was really 5 or 6?

[@jerekaneplaysthings7755]

Cool video! This is off topic, but I always wondered why Scott never chose to reveal/imply CC's name yet made a entire game (minigame wise) based around him. Granted it doesn't matter I guess, but that was always a weird detail to me. Why keep it secret? We even know the names of the MCI kids over one of the sons of the main killer lol

[@TheOnlyPedroGameplays]

In the 1930s William is a little kid, so by the 80s hes at least 60 plus all the stupid encyclopedia citing

[@Nightout88]

personally i think the timeline goes like this [keep in mind this is from mikes pov] fnaf 4 cutscenes, fnaf 2 [he was fritz and was only there one day looking for his dad at possibly 16-18 years old], fnaf SL [he dies], fnaf 1 [its the 91 location], fnaf 4 gameplay[is him trying to dismantle the nightmare which are real and reliving what he put cc though], fnaf 3 [meeting his father and stopping him], fnaf 6[2nd death], and then fnaf SB[he's GL Freddy]. if you don't like my timeline i completely understand. This is just what i believe to be happening exclusively from mike's pov, since he's who we play as.

[@bluefreddy5766]

SL has to have happened after the events of FNAF 1

[@Poppys.SugarRush]

I stopped watching Matpat because yours made more sense to me

[@LOADINGSPECS]

Cool ?

[@siresquawks]

I still watch them. I find them pretty entertaining.

[@higueraft571]

Or... watch both? Pretty sure everyone watches eachother's videos, even if it's unhinged like "gfreddy doesnt exist, MCI never happened"

[@Poppys.SugarRush]

@@higueraft571 eh, I stopped specifically with his fnaf theories, I watch his film theory Channel but thats about it

[@Poppys.SugarRush]

@@siresquawks it kinds depends for me

[@ZirconiaGacha]

The thing I take issue with is that, right at the beginning, MatPat called William a "loving father". I don't use the books much, and usually it's just characterization. But we know MatPat uses the books so heavily that a single story can make him doubt that FNaF 1-4 ever happened, so I find it funny he's saying William was a good dad. Mainly because one of the few things I use the books (more specifically the novels) for in the characterization section is that WILLIAM SLAPS ELIZABETH TWICE, at least he does in the graphic novels. And if MatPat is right about his jealousy towards Henry leading him to kill Charlie (at least, that's part of it), then he ABSOLUTELY could be physically abusive to all his kids before the murders even start. PLus I'm pretty sure that at some point Scott confirmed that Elizabeth was the most abused by William: note the use of "most abused", meaning that Crying Child and Michael also were. William may "love" his kids, but there's enough evidence that he's abusive out there that he's not really fully loving. EDIT: The stomach-mouths on the Nightmares could serve that purpose somewhat if it's MIKE having the nightmares. At first he doesn't know how Circus Baby killed Elizabeth (if he even knows that it was Baby in the first place), then he sees the blueprints somehow and put the pieces together and BOOM: the Nightmares with the stomach-mouths now have a really good reason to have them.

[@synderthmc]

Well you look at that, you were right and mat pat did think over the Elizabeth being the first victim. Thank goodness it wasn't solidified after all. I mean yiu could probably still find some flaws but yiur biggest concerned seem to be answered

[@Thelongestshrimp]

It is very possible that Evan was hiding, heck he’s even scared of the animatronics so he very well could have.

[@drquem4279]

Also, Another thing, Baby (And the other Funtimes) KILLS WHEN NOBODY ARE AROUND!!! How CC will saw Elizabeth dying?

[@siresquawks]

yes