I'm not mad, just disappointed. AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K 2.1 Review

[@ThatNerdChris]

Agreed, they really are just giving up their spot on top. Probably moving to elgato when that card drops.

[@AxfNPn3l]

This was a great review for 6.5 mins with a lot of info and the honesty is always appreciated.

[@olivergoldvalente]

Wow! Love how you and your channel has evolved since 2018! Great video thanks.

[@philscomputerlab]

Really? The previous one can do 4K60 with RGB24, YUV2 or NV12. I am scratching my head...

[@NightSprinter]

Hey, Phil. I've been following the discussion in the capture card channel of Adam's server. The moment the specs dropped, everyone just sort of eyerolled. Really hoping Elgato knocks it out of the park at this point.

[@philscomputerlab]

@@NightSprinter What's also sad is these new ones don't do 800x600, 1024x768 or 1280x1024... I might stock up on the 4k as Elgato also doesn't support these older resolutions. Thanks for the info!

[@NightSprinter]

@@philscomputerlabI just had a thought from a current discussion with folks on EposVox's server. If using the capture program that Elgato has, it could theoretically be possible to use a custom EDID. Now if we could only get some good HDMI 2.0 or 2.1 to VGA adapters made..

[@philscomputerlab]

Or just keep using the previous AverMedia 4K! That one does Retro 4:3 resolutions and RGB24 without issues. It's a really good card for anything with DVI output.@@NightSprinter

[@NightSprinter]

@@philscomputerlab yeah, I might look into a used one eventually.

[@CoalitionGaming]

I really want Avermedia to bring in a USB capture card with multiple HDMI inputs. Not a lot of options out there. I've expressed this desire to them. Maybe one day.

[@Spunkylex]

And outputs as well

[@philscomputerlab]

I'm curious if inside is a USB bridge chip and it's basically the 2.1 Ultra on a PCIe card. Another company did a similar thing, just using basically a PCIe USB chip and then attach the USB capture card to that. I'm baffled.

[@IamSiza]

it sure looks that way.... 60ms of capture latency vs 30ms in the liver gamer 4k that was already out....

[@infi84]

I think that's exactly what it is, if you look for pictures of the PCB you can spot a USB 3.1 gen2 controller.

[@Knaeckebrotsaege]

Avermedia themselves have done that before with the "Live Gamer HD 2" which is just a PCIe USB 3.0 controller followed up by almost a 1-to-1 copy of one of their USB 3.0 capture boxes (forgot which) of the same time frame slapped onto a card. And ironically most of the driver issues people had were stemming from the Etron USB 3 controller on it lmao

[@philscomputerlab]

@Knaeckebrotsaege Shocking...

[@BRKsEDU]

Wow, I was super excited to buy it but now I feel like it would be a downgrade going from the GC573 to the new one. No HDR 4K60!? Awful decision. Thanks for the video! You just saved me time and money!

[@paixaojoga]

Whaaat I didn't expected to see you here Edu haha, sou um grande apreciador do seu trabalho! Abraços do Brasil!

[@og.gamer9160]

Great video as always professor. At this point I think it would be highly beneficial for both companies to find away to integrate at least two inputs and outputs 2.1 btw kind of like a splitter thats the idea. Inspiration brings innovation

[@SweetJohnnyCage]

I feel the same as you. I've been using (and loving) the LiveGamer 4k since 2019 and was really looking forward to 4k120 capture coming in this generation of cards. Super disappointed that we have to wait longer now. KZbin doesn't support 120hz, so I'm not terribly concerned, but I'd love to start capturing 120hz to futureproof myself for a bit for when KZbin catches up. I'll keep using my existing card and wait a while longer.

[@R4NIERI]

Three years waiting for a capture card with HDMI pass through 2.1 and when they launch the internal version, which could visibly be more powerful, it can't capture 4k HDR 4:2:2 at 60fps... I understand that the USB version has its limitations, but the internal version should in no way be limited like that in 4k. Now that Twitch is going to start allowing 4k streaming, unfortunately we don't have the hardware available yet to make this a reality for video game consoles. It seems to me that they should launch a card later on, perhaps a GC575 G2?

[@EposVox]

“Unfortunately we don’t have the hardware yet to make this a reality for video game consoles” I mean, 4k60 (what Twitch will support) has been possible with capture cards since 2018 lol

[@SolidMGSnake]

I think you're right about them saving the good stuff for the "pro" cards.. just gunna have to wait longer.

[@SuperDerek]

so hold up -- the HDMI 2.1 spec they tacked on is basically "passthrough" support and otherwise, it's slightly worse than the last version? And to take advantage of HDR I'd have to nerf my stream to sub 60fps gameplay? At this point I'm failing to see what this card _really_ accomplishes for streamers that its predecessor couldn't do better with an HDMI 2.1 splitter.

[@Barnacules]

I remember when AVerMedia was at the top of their game and now Elgato is eating their lunch everywhere.

[@leogald]

Great video! I really enjoyed your analysis of Specs & Supported Formats; it's the only useful video I've found on this topic. Please make one for Elgato 2.1 when it's released; I'd love to buy the Elgato 2.1 capture card.

[@A1RM4X]

Hey EposVox! Thanks for reviewing this piece of hardware. Have you tried to run it on Linux for "science"? Curious to see if it just "works" as it seems to be a copy / paste of the GC553G2...

[@TheMuso28]

Likely not. The USB implementation would conform to the UVC spec, whereas there is no equivalent for PCI-E devices so far as I know, it would require a dedicated Linux driver.

[@SydneySE_]

This is really disappointing considering I absolutely loved the live gamer 4k. So much so I bought two of them. Why take away previous abilities?! Thanks for the review and great video as always.

[@hareblix]

Thank you for talking about ultrawide! I'm looking forward to the Elgato video.

[@bobrocks95]

Thank you for the great concise video on this! I'm going to get the older GC573 since I'd really like to have 4:4:4 capture available as an option at 4K. Do you know if the passthrough for the older card adds any latency, or should I buy an external splitter to be safe?

[@yellko]

Currently I have a gaming system with a nvidia 3070 card and a RYZEN 5 5600X on a LG OLED48CX8LC from 2020 hdmi 2.1 120hz where I am using window framing for my general gaming and streaming fidelity (playing all games in windowed mode). I'm looking for slightly better gaming performance when streaming - will any card help me on the performance side? I guess I'm on a specific configuration page, but I'd love to hear your thoughts as all the specs and dependencies are driving me crazy 😂😅. Keep it up! I thank you for your video reviews and your honest opinions!

[@EposVox]

Not if you’re streaming from the same PC you’re gaming on. They only have value for dual PC

[@yellko]

@@EposVox thanks Epos for the quiet fast answer! All the best! ❤️

[@ployth9000]

waiting to see what elgato brings to the table on hdmi 2.1 capture cards

[@LKTheHorrorNerd]

So in other words, I’ll wait until Elgato drops the new capture cards before I make my decision on what kind of upgrades I’ll need to make my gaming/streaming setups efficient, running smoothly and at the specs that they advertised that we’d be able to experience not just as gamers/streamers/content creators, but as a community of nerdy cool gamers and viewers who might be watching our videos and streams in the future!

[@TheGideonGames]

Hi, please tell me is the 2 NVENC chips in 4070 and above better\faster then one? Can i stream + record better on 4070 with two chips?

[@RaincloudTheDragonXD]

The NVENC engines are for encoding video, for streaming and recording. AVerMedia's capture card and any other capture cards like it are designed to simply capture video from an external source. So in order to stream games from a console or another pc, you need a capture card, but in order to stream from the same pc you're gaming on, you only need your 4070. You don't necessarily need a dedicated GPU in order to stream games, especially if you have a capture card. Having a capture card will not make your stream encode better or faster necessarily. It can reduce load on your gaming pc, though and thus improve game performance. All of this depends entirely on your setup and plans for your stream.

[@CptPakundo]

Wow, and here I thought there was finally a proper HDMI 2.1 replacement for the GC573 I have. Guess we'll have to wait for Elgato. Hope they don't gimp their PCI-E offering...

[@birdiemaradoth]

if it can only capture at 4k 60 is that what you can only play at too? Or does the passtyhrough support 4k 120 and you can play it at that but it cant capture that

[@EposVox]

You can play in 4k120

[@Zidakuh]

Any planned coverage of the Shadowcast 2 lineup from GenkiThings? I am very curious about those.

[@EposVox]

Yeah!

[@CaptainLeemo_]

Thanks for that I was wondering whether to get the GC573 or GC575 (As an ultrawide streamer!). This helped a lot!

[@xiphosNL]

Why does the AverMedia Live Gamer 4K(GC573) have lower input latency than the new AverMedia Live Gamer 4K 2.1?

[@EposVox]

Probably added input latency from it being a usb card running through a usb-pcie conversion chip before being connected to your pc

[@Knaeckebrotsaege]

@@EposVox That, and it doesn't have a Xilinx Artix-7 FPGA to do the (very) heavy lifting like the GC573 does. That damn FPGA alone made up half the cost of the old LG 4K, and it's also the reason why it took time to "boot" ... because that's literally what it did Seems to me that they wanted to make the "ultimate" capture card on the market (even if it ended up being a loss-leader) just to get back on top, and now they're back to pulling the same lazy shortcuts as they've done a decade ago (Live Gamer HD 2 is literally just one of their USB capture boxes plus an Etron USB 3.0 controller slapped onto a PCIe card ... VERY similar to this GC575)

[@3ni6m9]

I cannot for the life of me get the audio AND video to passthrough OBS. Can anyone help?

[@EposVox]

Need a lot more information to be able to help. Would be easier if you joined our discord or posted in AVerMedia support or something. KZbin comments not great place for tech support

[@KevMuller]

youve helped me in the past so i come to you again to fix an issue im having, i have this card and i just set it up, edited the edid (switched the res & refresh rates to the one shtey provide) but they advertise up to 240hz in 1440p passthrough, but im using a 170hz display, am i stuck in 144hz passthrough being they dont show the option for anything higher

[@TonyTurbo78]

So Feb 1st for the Elgato 2.1 cards, very interesting. I think I'll wait, I reckon they will have full 4k60 HDR capture, I doubt very much they'll have 4k120 yet though, that's for next generation I'm sure. Like you, I've been a bit disappointed in these, I've held off purchasing the external card waiting to see if this internal device unlocked the extras, but nope!!! Holding off releasing the internal device makes no sense if it offers the exact same as the external device. And to almost appear like they've gone backwards in capture options is just outright dumb and extremely disappointing.

[@iFaFo_0]

Senpai gaming showed a pic of the 4K X at the Elgato TwitchCon booth. Product detail said True 4K 144hz HDR10 capture and passthrough. I will be very disappointed if it does not support full 120hz recording. I need that ability for a few projects I have kept on the back burner.

[@TonyTurbo78]

@iFaFo_0 I don't think anything will be recording 4k120 for quite some time yet. Just my opinion. But yeah saw the elgato cards and info months ago at Twitchcon.

[@iFaFo_0]

Elgato 4k 2.1 cards releasing February 1st? Is this breaking news? I have been searching everywhere for news.

[@EposVox]

They had the announcement at ces

[@philjensen5151]

Meanwhile, Avid Artist DNxIO units and Blackmagic 4k Extreme units are entering the used space right at $400 (original retail: $3000), with 4k60p capture+playback, an absolute top of the line DAC and ADC with XLR preamp and a mess of audio/video I/O. 10-bit 4:2:2 capture and hardware downsampling as well.

[@kyngb24]

​@EposVox any update on re central interface if it's working yet? I know it's been a few days i just bought the card today didn't want to take my set up apart if it still wasn't working currently

[@EposVox]

Looks like they've updated it for support, but I haven't tested

[@kyngb24]

@@EposVoxthank you sir I've been watching your videos since 2018 always great information you're #1 🏆 I'll test it today and I'll follow up with you

[@kyngb24]

@@EposVoxit’s confirmed avermedia emailed me the newest 4.77 update it is solid

[@livinghero]

I picked it up just to see if it does what I need it to do. Do you think they add these missing features with firmware updates? If not then when the elgato card comes out I will pick that one up too and see if I like it.

[@EposVox]

I would not expect any of this to be added in an update. Seems to be hardware limitation

[@CheckitMedia]

Hello @EposVox, i have a question. My son (10 years old) has made youtube videos such as gaming on his ps4 and Pokemon videos. But now we are going to build a epic gaming pc and he wants to stream and make gaming videos like hardcore. The pc okay thats no problem i have build many pcs, but the capture card well there is the issue. I see so many capture cards and i dont know what we need and is the best for streaming and game recording with friends and random people in like Fortnite and so on. Can you tell me the card we need for this? He is also getting a mic im thinking the Elgato wave 3 (because the setup is partly white and they have a whole white theme). I hope to hear from you.

[@EposVox]

Is he just wanting to capture the gaming pc? If so, you don’t need a capture card. If you want one for the PS4, the EVGA XR1 Lite is usually on sale and a good budget option, or grab the HD60 X for something a bit better (if planning to capture anything like ps4 pro or up for 4k)

[@F34RTEHR34PER]

I have the usb version and the ultra 4k pci. If I choose Multi, I can select the usb 2.1 capture box and use it properly in the ReCentral 4 latest beta.

[@EposVox]

The USB model has been out for a couple months lol

[@F34RTEHR34PER]

@@EposVox I was suggesting that might work with the pci version.

[@Capta1nAsh]

I was considering getting this I could stream in ultrawide whilst getting the most out of my monitors refresh rate. I play at 3440x1440. Does UW still get the high passthrough?

[@EposVox]

Up to 100Hz

[@CrespoFTW]

Still very odd how little Elgato are promoting their new capture cards. A single tour video and article but nothing else. I thought would be plastering this announcement all over the main Elgato website

[@EposVox]

I mean, they’re not out yet lol

[@CrespoFTW]

@@EposVox but they setup a small booth at CES to promote it and only talk about it when someone ask a question directly.....which not many know about the product in the first place. It out in a few weeks :P

[@WAJU4]

​@@CrespoFTWis out next week and I do agree,while I still own the HD 60 S+ im tryin desperately to make a jump either for the internal one or external,hopefully they deliver so I can pull the trigger

[@ponsapasengchaiyaphum6851]

Between this and elgato 4k x, which one should I choose?

[@gster109]

Have you ever had the GC533G2 cut out signal momentarily to the OLED? Mine does it every so often but I notice that OBS keeps the signal while the OLED drops signal entirely for a second or two.

[@EposVox]

Sounds like you need to replace your cable going from the card to the TV. That's always the immediate sign of a cable that's not good enough for the new formats

[@gster109]

@@EposVox been using the same cable directly to the OLED for 2 years with 0 issue. Using a zeskit maya hdmi 2.1 & the hdmi 2.1 that came in the box. Both are around 6ft each so not too long. I had another user confirm this issue. Im almost certain if you used yours consistently enough youd get the issue too. It only happens once every couple of hours & can go days without doing it too.

[@EposVox]

@@gster109 I will say it doesn't matter if you used it direct to TV, from cap card always exposes more issues. But regardless, I have not had it happen, so I don't know.

[@gster109]

@@EposVox very strange, I’ve tried 2 different cables so far. Both zeskit maya’s which are highly reputable in the OLED community for hdmi 2.1.

[@toohigh5721]

I get this. Pretty sure it’s not my cable and don’t remember it happening before I added the capture card.

[@peterbytano6600]

Can I clone any of the new 360hz 1440p OLED displays to this? Would that lower the refresh rate of my 360hz OLED to 240hz?

[@EposVox]

1440p360 would be limited to 1440p240. You could TRY to force windows to clone to it, but you’ll just get a ton of extra screen tearing in the capture that will look bad

[@bakjoul]

So, between the Live Gamer 4k and the Live Gamer 4k 2.1, which one should we pick ? I got a second-hand old but i'm wondering if i made a mistake...

[@AlejandroSuntay]

For how game changing the USB version with I feel your disappointment with this PCIE version. Hopefully ElGato will put out a 4kProMk3 with 2.1 and support for 1440p240/360hz!

[@John-sn4hl]

Why use a capture card anyways? Just use OBS and record screen?

[@EposVox]

Gave an explanation of what it’s for basically right at the start of the video…

[@АртёмСабадырь]

Even PC gamers use capture cards to stream. This is because capturing and encoding eats up some performance. It's better to have 2nd PC for that if you stream online games where FPS matters.

[@EposVox]

Just to be clear, capture cards are *only* useful for PCs if capturing with another PC. If you’re just using 1, capture card does not help

[@PeterYacono]

Thanks for calling this out. Thanks for the video.

[@QuilLocke]

Does this mean this won't support the Retrotink 4K's HDR mode? I'm only asking this because the Tink 4K has HDR10 & this capture card doesn't support it.

[@RNGwhydoihavetoregis]

can it actually do RGB24 like a magewell card? (8bit rgb without colorspace conversion to ycbcr)

[@EposVox]

for the formats I listed, yes

[@linkzellda]

How Much Volts/Watts this Capture Card need?

[@MaeVisage]

No 4k 60fps HDR Capture = boycott! Thus, waiting for new HDMI 2.1 capture card from Elgato! [1:36]

[@unsupported247]

Has this changed yet via update?

[@xVertigo101]

Yikes. I got the external captor ecard from AVerMedia that's also 2.1 I really like it as I can just simply plug my headset into it. What I dislike is over OBS the visuals look kind mucky or fringy. Not sure why but they do include text fringing.

[@MajoraZero]

Input latency is almost double what the GC573 has. What a weird product, it's worse than the old one with a 2.1 splitter.

[@LOT9T]

4k30 capture HDR pass! Damn i was chomping to get my hands on the internal version! Still might buy though as i need one! Thx Professor imma wait for Feb 1st!

[@overdev1993]

so we waited a bunch of years for a disappointed product that is also expensive, great. after all this time I expected more.

[@staiain]

In other words, nearly DOA

[@uhTrance]

I am so disappointed. Elgato is the last hope it seems.

[@iTouch4444]

where displayport 1.4/2.0/2.1 Capturcards.........

[@АртёмСабадырь]

SC720N1-L

[@gerarderloper]

Deleted. Turns out my OTHER HDMI2.1 cable was crap even thought it worked fine without the capture card. Must be picking up noise.

[@turbokiller]

Can't wait to buy it

[@Alexandra-Rex]

Glad to see they have proper passthrough at least. I hope Elgato's card will do it better with the rest of it. I don't mind using my 240Hz 1440p monitor at 120Hz (I don't want to keep swapping outputs to use 240Hz when not recording or streaming, I'm lazy), but when I do try 240Hz, it's noticeably smoother.

[@tek_soup]

yep, very lackluster. been waiting on pcie, and this is, not worth the wait.

[@JackWangila]

If you take this capture card apart like TechPowerUp did in page 3 of their review, you're pretty much spot on at 3:42. It uses a Realtek RTD2801VPF SoC and an Asmedia ASM3142 PCIe 3.0x2 to USB 3.1 10-Gig chip to connect it to the rest of the system. It is a bummer but at least it's slightly cheaper than the GC553G2. The only thing I would be curious about is how it behaves in a PCIe 3.0x1 slot if you wanted to buy one now, and upgrade your motherboard down the road.. 🤔

[@RideShareRocks]

KZbin only allows 4K at 60 FPS anyway.

[@RowdyGT]

I have to say, on a reliability standpoint, after nearly a decade of being let down by 3 different Elgato products I’ve had to an embarrassing degree, I switched to the Avermedia Livegamer 4k and I have not had a single reliability issue since. I don’t need 4k120fps capture, HDR or this passthrough (yet) but I hope it doesn’t get to the point where I have to wait for x amount of years for Avermedia to get there while Elgato has one out

[@AJCoReTV]

Sure Hope Elgato can save the day for hdmi 2.1 4k60 cap, for Mac. If not, I’ll be moving back to Windows on my next stream PC build. For now, these are just 4k 120 passthrough cards.

[@BorisRecalde]

Agreed. This is just unacceptable IMO. All eyes on Elgato lol

[@BaelzWhaelz]

No platforms support above 60fps. They're not stupid.

[@EposVox]

You've been able to stream 120FPS to Twitch for years if you could manage quality. Plus, there's tons of advantages to ingesting the framerate you're passing through outside of making content in that framerate

[@marcuszettergren8885]

There is no technical reason why this card should have any limitations at all with passthrough, absolutely none.

[@EposVox]

Well that’s not how that works lol

[@Kondakov]

Also this NEW card has no support for multi-channel sound. Not even as passthrough. This is a HUGE downgrade from previous Live Gamer 4k and a deal breaker for me.

[@RomireTV]

So i guess im gonna get a Elgato then

[@nirantali]

I have an Live Gamer 4k GC573 that was great until i got an RTX4090 from then on it was just a brick showing No Signal. Now I have ordered a Live Gamer 4k 2.1 GC575, it will arrive tomorrow. If the new flagship model with PCIe gen 3 x4 is really worse than the old one with PCIe gen 2 x4, then there will be a refund with a corresponding rating. Because the Signal that now comes out of the RTX4090 gonna be "4KVRR FRL5 RGB 10b HDR / L-PCM 192kHz 7.1ch 24bit" or "4KVRR 1486MHz RGB 10b HDR / L-PCM 192kHz 7.1ch 24bit" and I really hope the Live Gamer 4K 2.1 GC575 can handle that. And by handle I mean that I can then record. I don't care about passthrough because I split the signal with a VRRoom. I'm only interested in what it can record and from a card like this I expect 4k60HDR and LPCM 5.1/7.1 but certainly at least 1080p120HDR and LPCM 5.1/7.1. The old one could do that too, but it didn't understand FRL or VRR. I expect the same from the new one, only that it can now do FRL and VRR. In a review (cgmagonline) of the GC575 it was written "The Live Gamer 4K 2.1 delivers excellent, no-compromise 4K60 HDR game capture and pass-through for high-end HDMI 2.1 gaming. It offers full 4K60 HDR capture over PCIe, almost completely uncompressed, maintaining the visual fidelity of modern games whether you're recording or streaming." I hope that wasn't a lie.

[@MrNelahem]

So this is DOA do not buy thanks for the review!

[@The_Chad_]

WTF AverMedia? Why Why Why? ? ? Do you always pull this crap? You could be great, but you always choke on something. Are you trying to be the AMD of streaming/recording devices? I've been eagerly waiting on this. Literally just looked it up the other day to see if there were any updates on a release day. Now I see it and it's a downgrade? WTAF! Seriously, what was the point of developing this? You already have something that does it better. Was it really just to cash in on the HDMI 2.1 buzz word? Such a shame...

[@jaxxarmstrong]

A major failure from a otherwise reputable brand. Especially at this highway-robbery price point.

[@TonyTurbo78]

you can bet Elgatos upcomming 2.1 cards will be over £300, making this price not seem bad at all.

[@justjanne-de]

​@@TonyTurbo78 Tbh, the elgato cards are comparatively inexpensive. They're basically professional broadcast capture devices, often using the same chips as blackmagic decklink uses, for a lower price. If you buy the FPGAs elgato and BMD use separately you'd already pay the same price as the whole capture card costs. That doesn't mean the cards are cheap, but they're not making bank.

[@TonyTurbo78]

@@justjanne-de oh yeah agree 100%, that wasn't my point. They offer you a lot for the price, point I was making was that the Elgato cards will be more expensive making the Avermedias look cheap in comparison. If the original poster thinks the Aver cards are expensive where they are, then what are they going to think about the Elgato that are historically over £300. I'm quite surprised at the rumoured pricing of Elgatos new cards, I'm sure I paid closer to £400 for my 4k60 mk2 ;)

[@АртёмСабадырь]

Live Gamer 4K was also a garbage. Elgato 4k60 Pro Mk.2 is waaaaay better.

[@TonyTurbo78]

@user-lz2mu9uq4e I thought it was actually pretty good, I do all my 4k content with it and people always comment how awesome it looks. I also have the Elgato 4k60mk2 (actually had it longer than my Aver) on my 2nd gaming PC, it's no different really.

[@xXMasterJ360Xx]

Wow... lol so just buy the previous Live Gamer 4K and save $100

[@EposVox]

Live Gamer 4K won’t pass through HDMI 2.1 spec signals

[@joegt123]

Too late... Got the gamer ultra 2.1. Fuck

[@EposVox]

Then you didn’t miss anything lol

[@joegt123]

@@EposVox Nah I mean when you said "ehhh wait a few months and see what ElGato has around the corner."