I'm Reconsidering Taking Steroids After Seeing This...

Coach ZT watches the Vice documentary on anabolic steroid abuse in the UK.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
02:09 - Taking Steroids For Aesthetics
06:04 - Can You Just Stop?
10:35 - Gyno Surgery
13:29 - Steroid Dealers Making Gear
22:02 - Steroids in Bodybuilding
28:00 - Conclusion

[@zacktelander]

If you’re new here, please subscribe! It makes a huge difference!

[@mcfarvo]

Vice sucks, but happy to watch your coverage here, Zack, cheers

[@leonelmartinez2486]

Why did you even consider?

[@anon7843]

Yeah vice is trash bro lol. That’s the first thing I thought when I heard you say it. Someone else beat me to it.

[@eviljesus5411]

who wants to see you deep throating the mic while trying to watch the documentary you put on for us?

[@CarneGranada]

Been lifting naturally for over 15 years and I am so glad I never did steroids. In my 30's I care infinitely more about my health than I ever did about whatever I thought I could have achieved on gear in my teens/20's.

[@hiigara2085]

Or do gear in your 30s hehe

[@PinataOblongata]

You are ahead of the curve thinking like this in your 30s. I'm about to be 44 and been training and competing naturally in powerlifting for about 8 years. I have a lifting associate who is mid fifties and I can tell he's struggled with the decision, but did the stats on how much more the roiding guys can lift in comparison and decided it's still not worth it, even as strongly competitive as he is. If the absolute most knowledgeable guys find it hard to juggle all the factors to try and do it safe/smart, the average punter does not have a chance.

[@AlejandroSanchez-pl6jw]

After having kids, get in gear. If no kids, why not you should’ve been doing gear

[@MassMultiplayer]

same. i lift 120 tons per week 60 hour job week at 39 year old. and people laugh at vegan. oh well.. if being fit healthy ethical endurant strong for cheaper with 47 nutriment is funny. im extremly funny! hehe

[@coows]

@@AlejandroSanchez-pl6jw he's 30, there's no need for him to do gear.

[@peterubishfitness]

I appreciate the shoutout buddy! Steroids did wonders for my strength, but there are obviously the downsides I experienced like severe acne and the mental instability (on tren). I would definitely recommend most guys shy away from them. It's been three years now off steroids and I feel the best I ever have. It took 2 full years to get back to where I felt normal though. A lot of guys struggle with the mental aspects of that. I'd say that most people don't want to face that. You have to be patient. My levels came back to 500 ng/dL and maybe higher now, but you lose pretty much all of your strength and size initially when you start coming off.

[@K4R3N]

What a rollercoaster coaster Pete. Stay healthy man. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally

[@DCJayhawk57]

Pete, I've followed you for a long time due to your honesty and transparency, and it's been great seeing you transition to being natural over the past few years. You've matured a lot and your perspective on fitness is so much more positive and forward thinking now. You've influenced me to do more cardio and focus on things other than getting big and strong at all costs.

[@ayyylmao9022]

I agree man I think a large reason many people don't wanna try and hop off TRT is because of the mental and physical effects from having very little test in your system. Its probably not fun going around and trying to live like that when using low dose TRT can make you feel normal. It also seems to vary alot on recovery of natural production from what it seems.

[@lenny7228]

Oog

[@jonsmith3776]

@DCJayhawk57 Bro once you start taking PEDs you lose your natty card forever. The best you can do is say you've been lifting 5 years sober. Definitely good for him getting clean though, drugs always lead to a downward spiral, even if it takes decades

[@vance9090]

My dad was a high level power liter in the 70/80s. Heavy steroid user (for his time). Got off of them around late 80s after competing and my sister was born. Cold turkey. Didn’t hop on TRT till mid 2000s I believe when he was in his 50s. He’s gone fully off cycle seeveral times between then and now. Biggest thing he’ll tell ya was the depression and just the dark hell mentally that he would go through fully off, would say that’s the hardest part. He’s 68 out, still trains everyday and somewhat uses TRT(less than what his doctors prescribed him). But yeah super interesting talking to him about it.

[@trayyoutube]

I’m against everything except TRT. After I have children I’m blasting that shit 😂😂😂

[@corbindallas3220]

I didn't take steroids until I was was 28. Been an athlete majority of my life. I enjoy lifting but had a knee injury from running. Fixed my knee injury. the depression after the first cycle was hell. Also I will attest to the the "addictiveness" of steroid use. That depression is so bad most would rather just run lower doses like what some call sports trt.

[@hiebrantsify]

​@@trayyoutube"i am against drugs. Except a little bit of cocain. Just a small amount to make me feel good when i am older."

[@trayyoutube]

@@hiebrantsify coke is great lmao you’re barking up the wrong tree

[@oddmanout7755]

​@@trayyoutubeThen you aren't "against drugs," that's two you are fine with.

[@airhead533]

I didnt hit a 225 bench for reps until I was 29. I just want to be healthy and still strong for the rest of my life. Those are my goals for the gym.

[@K4R3N]

Same, that's plenty of strength for me (45). And maybe some calesthenics work after that for mobility sake

[@Winterascent]

I am impressed. I'm 44 and have been doing 65 lb dumbbell bench for years. I'm good with that. I would like to add to my 75 lb OHP but if it took me 5 years to get to 100 lbs, I would be fine. These are 4 x 10, btw, not 1 rep max.@@K4R3N

[@Wasteo]

That Morrowind background almost brought me to tears.

[@chindianajones3742]

Oh dude i just noticed it! Fuck yeah morrwind

[@wadephipps5239]

Based on the title, are we about to see the villain arc of Jacked Telander???

[@zacktelander]

Alex went absolutely bonkers on the title lol 😂

[@wadephipps5239]

@@zacktelander Between that and Saucy Sulek on the thumbnail, I didn't know what to expect😂

[@mgk-metalgearkelly5054]

Zacked Telander

[@gnotgnelf3738]

Stacked Telander

[@jkarpov3634]

Zack Trenlander

[@user-ii7xc1ry3x]

I need a 2h Derek video reacting to this - including Zach's commentary for some more insightful information, namely the "on/off" switch regarding stopping steroids once you start

[@Marklesfield]

There was a crossroad when I was about 20, where me and my pals had been at the gym for about 2 years. They all started taking gear and I chose to not, for the first couple of years it was heartbreaking because I had to follow the natural bulk/cut cycles, looking good for a few months before transitioning into the next bulk/cut cycle and looking a bit shit, whereas my friends looks massive and lean year round. 10 years on and the health consequences have started hitting them hard.

[@imhatchmantoo]

Steroids suck. And its hard to get off them. And the health consequences are real and they are serious. I just didn't get it until I did it.

[@agnidas5816]

What if I told you it is the diet and that steroids allowed them to eat more of the things that negatively impact your health ?

[@Justin0048]

@@agnidas5816 I would tell you that you are incorrect. LOL. It sounds like you either know little about them or you're trying to justify your usage of them. Steroids have an impact on many health markers outside of diet alone. I ate way less on-cycle in my early 20's and way healthier than other times in my life and I guarantee it was steroids that screwed up my liver values, cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. and it had nothing to do with my fairly low calorie chicken, broccoli, and rice diet that I ate every day. Sure, if you have a terrible diet, and are jamming in the calories on a constant bulk then yeah, it will be twice as bad for your health, but in many people's cases it's not their diet, but the drugs. In any case, its addictive to look good, feel confident & strong. Unfortunately, there are some very real consequences if you are reckless with your usage for too long. There are certainly safer ways to take them but in my opinion they are just a huge pain (figuratively and literally). I honestly hated every single shot I gave myself and out of the thousand shots over the years I have had plenty of bad shots/gear & side effects because of my use. For those that are on and want to be off of them. You can stop and recover....it just takes a bit of time depending on how long you've been on them. You will lose size but if you continue lifting and eating a good diet you wont lose all of them. Just deal with the slower, less dramatic gains, and train natural, because at some point in your life you'll want to come off of them and regardless of what you do you'll end up losing most of that muscle you built up in a short period of time. Especially so if your work outs drop off or stop completely like what tends to happen with many who use steroids and burn out at a young age.

[@kingj521]

I can't imagine eating a meal without putting on KZbin.. damn! That spoke to me 😂

[@engell3707]

Can’t imagine taking a shit without KZbin either.

[@wrektem240]

I started at 25. I’m 30 now. I’m talking high test and steroid doses. I started by my own accord. It was a personal choice id been curious about since high school. Everything I read said wait. So I did. It helped me turn into a man. Helped my facial hair and obviously my body. I don’t regret or want to stop. I’ve taken 7 months off cold turkey once and well I was off much longer than that. I don’t advocate anything beyond making your own choice, just educate yourself. For me they changed my life for the better, granted I’m aware there may be things down the line that might be serious. I like seeing someone with an open mind and capable of critical thinking narrate this, so thanks you def earned a sub!

[@_alex_y.not_]

I never considered the addicting aspect of steroids at all and this video has been hugely educational in reconsidering that. I work with addicts and am an addict myself and there are so many parallels here that I never considered (the reluctance to quit because of loss of quality of life, the lies you tell yourself to justify sustained use, the inability or unwillingness to stop even when you know you're fucked), but getting off alcohol never involved real, tangible, and severe issues like getting off steroids does. Man. My heart goes out to anyone going through it. Quality vid Zack.

[@2o3ief]

The last thing you said sounds a bit like a cope and excuse given by someone who is addicted to steroids. Getting off steroids has "real, tangible, and severe" issues but alcohol doesn't... you can literally die, have seizures, and develop other serious medical issues from alcohol withdrawal and recovery--obviously every alcoholic can and will be healthier if they successfully get off drinking. Versus having low to very low testosterone for 6 months to a 1-2 years depending how long and hard you abused them. Just a perspective--I'd be curious for you to expand on what you mean.

[@oddmanout7755]

​@@2o3iefGreat reply, I was thinking the same thing, you can literally die from quitting alcohol cold turkey if you drink enough.

[@oooooba8343]

i dont think you understand the withdrawals alcoholics can go through.. like that guy said, you can literally die. The "withdrawals" from steroids are just that your body may not produce as much testosterone

[@IISocratesII]

@@2o3ief 1-2 years of self inflicted almost garaunteed depression, in a population of people with already existing high mental health issue comorbidity is no joke.

[@stonedizzleful]

Your point on harm minimisation and testing kits is a really good one. That should be something we should be looking into providing for people. We have that at a lot of festivals here in Australia for party drugs. It doesn't just save the individual but it also saves health systems money on acute and chronic healthcare requirements.

[@carloscariasrodriguez]

So stoked you are reviewing this cause I watched it and yes a lot of it is true, it was also such a negative light towards anabolic’s. Excited to watch

[@talisb7883]

Congratulations on making this impactful video. It's a crucial step in raising awareness among young men and they really need it.

[@sbtraining1769]

I always make it a point with my clients that training is not about aestetics, its a bi product of your training. Theres nothing wrong with being proud of how your body looks, but its more important to be able to move properly, to have good circulation, to he mobile, to have dense tendons, etc. Its about being able to enjoy and live life like a human should be able to when there older. You arent going to care about your six pack when youre 70, youre going to care if you can go for a hike, or play with your grandkids, or go kayaking. Without your body being a limiting factor. This is what exercise is about! Not how our bodies look.

[@joebloggs6922]

This is why, while they have their faults, I love the Starting Strength method and philosophy. It's all about being strong so when you're in your 60s/70s you can walk around and be functional and enjoy your life and not about focusing on your looks (although getting bigger is an awesome side product). Ever since I've been thinking about things more about that way I've felt a lot healthier mentally in general and actually seen a lot of strength and physique gains anyway.

[@NeverKnowWhatHidden]

Although that is completely good and mindful point, it won't reach (well, maybe it will if your client's fall into some category of smart mid-age people). Because a 20-year old guy, who just wants to be outstanding and feel invincible, wouldn't be impressed with a story of kayaking with grandkids in some 50 years. In my almost 40, frankly speaking, I still have to moderate my trainings not to push too hard, because slow an steady progress often feels like no progress at all and things get boring,

[@sbtraining1769]

@@NeverKnowWhatHidden I find framing things around injury prevention and athletic capacity to be more appealing to younger clients for sure.

[@mattysquizzato7094]

The word I think you're looking for here is.....function. You are 100% correct.

[@philipgilliam3400]

This video is great! I totally agree with you. The whole underground lab thing is absolutely fascinating! Please consider doing a series of videos, meeting various Black Market chemists, that gets under the hood. Consider co-hosting it with Derek from the More Plates More Dates Podcast or the biochemist of your choice. The back-and-forth between you two would be amazing. That would be awesome! Cheers!🎉

[@THEEStickyxbootz]

Derek from MPMD was asked about going from full-blown cycles to being on TRT. From my understanding of what he said, it's possible to go cold turkey, but the recovery of your natural test can take longer for some than others. I think most prefer to stay on something because it might be easier than taking the step of stopping altogether, and the process probably sucks 😕.

[@jonsmith3776]

Yea forsure, you are describing all hard drug addicts too not just gearheads. Withdrawal is much harder than just staying on the drugs

[@KMSWeightsNWelding]

That’s correct, you go cold turkey and your nuts have to wake them selves up again, you’re looking at a long drop off period with a lot of lost progress. It’s better to taper down, run a hcg and pct protocol to kick start them. You’ll reduce the amount you lose.

[@TheNameIsFreddy]

Well if u had to cheat with roids of course it will too hard mentally to have shit levels

[@TheDavveponken]

hcg should help with that

[@hanzo7616]

I recently came off from heavy dosages to absolutely nothing. After 4 weeks I felt depressed. From 6 weeks onwards though I felt normal. Actually I feel a lot happier now than I was on cycle.

[@brandonmuse5532]

You and this Vice video are doing excellent work!!!! We have to put out the information. People as young as 16 to 26 really breaks my heart. I am a lifelong natural and the hard work and being healthy is what we should want.

[@jmac79ers]

Man, you really nailed it when you spoke on the philosophical side of this. What is right, what is wrong? As a 44 year old who has lifted off and on since the sixth grade, I can say that the pressure to be muscular and big as a man is tremendous. I grew up watching Sly and Arnie, and dreamt of one day looking like that. Now, with a 16 year old son, it really scares me that he will feel pressured and possibly give in. Even if it's for competion, it's not worth it. Thanks for highlighting this problem in society. If there's one thing the human race excels at, it's putting superficial wants ahead of the things that truly matter. God bless

[@salvadorromero9712]

Telling a scared parent they're right to be scared is always the last thing I'd want to do. But I can't really tell you otherwise. I'm really, really young looking (and, if I can be immodest, do get taken for "enhanced" a lot) and kids are probably more frank in front of me and it seems every year I see kids who are younger, scrawnier, more "clean-cut" or even nerdy looking, talking about their PED use even more casually. I mean it was pretty bad when we were growing up, probably a lot worse than we'd like to remember. But I swear most of us talked about creatine with far more awe (remember that?) than these kids talk about tren. Keep as involved in your kid's life as your job permits, that's for sure!

[@elder_millennial_Fboy]

I have a different story, I started at 18 because I had a rugby scholarship. The S&C dept was the one giving us the gear, I did hop back on voluntary in my 30's a bit when i got into powerlifting but never anything outrageous(500test was my max). I'm 41 now on real TRT(140 a week). But getting a free education was still worth it to me, and im so thankful i never got into training for aesthetics that seems like a empty goal

[@maxk880]

Yeah woohoo you have a scholarschip, and you hve ton inject yourself with medicine for the rest of your life lol

[@olindblo]

As much as I’m happy that you got a path to a free education, this is just another reason I think sports scholarships shouldn’t be a thing.

[@KMSWeightsNWelding]

@@maxk880you don’t have to inject your self for the rest of your life. Short term testicular atrophy doesn’t mean your testosterone production completely shuts down and with proper pct and use of hcg prior to pct and tapering down you can easily get natural production kick started and running again without a large drop as if you went cold turkey and your nuts had to wake them selves up.

[@KMSWeightsNWelding]

@@maxk880 You are entitled to have an opinion on stuff, and by all means share it. Though when it comes at the expense of others, I would like to suggest you research the subject before making the comment. There are some unfortunate people I’m sure that have a one and done story where they never recovered, though I would imagine it’s rare as hens teeth.

[@timefeymartynov5309]

Interesting I played college football Never took a single ped…… and I regret NOT taking peds It nearly killed me being so outgunned on the field. The gridiron at the high level is not kind to the weak And probably cost me a shot at the nfl Now as a recreational athelete…. You should never take peds Endangered you health to look good….rediculas

[@nightwing5405]

17:24 thats inspiring to hear, I didn't expect to hear life advice from this. Great job Zac! Be who you are

[@mikeandre7364]

i think an important narrative that should be added is that of people like myself. Qualified in sport and exercise and health and wellness. Even though I am fully aware of all the negative effects that steroids have, I CONSTANTLY am thinking of them, even though i know for myself in particular, my life would be ruined and shortened substantially (heart issues in family). The want of just wanting to be good at something is so strong that I wish I could set aside my physical health for wanting to be at least good, and possibly great, especially with my educational background, but I still try my best to stay away from it all because I am afraid of what it would do to me. Truly a painful experience at times. edit: grammar.

[@moqensen]

Hey Zack. I think it's wrong to say the cream always rises to the top in regards to the best enhanced bodybuilders also theoretically being the best natural ones if they weren't on gear. It's a fact that the response to PEDs is genetically different from person to person. So there is a high chance the best enhanced bodybuilders simply are the genetic elite in positive response to PEDs. They might not be in the genetic elite in regards to training response. Some probably were elite in both like Ronnie Coleman, and other top guys probably weren't. Love your videos man!

[@combobreaker449]

Being on my first year of training, I’m so glad I never touched that stuff. Take care of your body guys. Patience is rewarded with the right form and programming.

[@whenpigsfly8178]

You can see that in the case of people who have achieved the highest levels of bodyweight training. It's great to be strong, mobile and healthy. Gym's another way, but minus steroids..

[@ericflynn6541]

Great content man! The perspective you offer is very valuable to me personally. I'm a normal guy who is trying to navigate the fitness and wellness world. Needless to say the amount of BS is getting out of hand so thank you for what you do bro 🙏

[@valkyr_rl7169]

Im 25yo, when i was 21 i made the dumb decision to run a test cycle after 3 years of great natural gym progress. After a 9 week cycle, i ran a little bit of arimidex and nolva to regulate levels. However, my natural production never really came back. I felt weird and anxious for a few years until last year i tested my T levels and i was a 330. Before that cycle years ago, I was >800. Last year i also experienced thryoid dysfunction from Hashimotos which messed with my adrenals, interfering with gonadal function. Now ive been on HCG to recover my levels. Im on month two and I feel slightly more energetic and mentally clearer. Maybe by an increase of 15-20% if I had to put it into a percentage. I probably shouldnt have done that cycle. The food i eat is fantastic, and I Olympic weightlifting 4x a week, and run 3x a week. My natty levels hopefully should come back otherwise im getting on the TRT train.

[@stumckhall]

Testing kits definitely help reduce drug use, they’ve been trailing it in Australia and that’s the net effect. I think it’s super good to educate, inform and help people understand the truth. NATTY FO LIFE BRO.

[@onnoholling7107]

A real eye opener Zach Well done with this video

[@MrJoffe95]

Pete for instance went cold turkey as you said and he was off for a long time, his numbers were in the gutter the whole time. Pete also documented it with bloodwork and updates so you can check that out. but if he now jumped on TRT it obviously didnt work for him to get his natural production back up. but at the flipside he didnt do a PCT which might have impacted if his production could even kick back in at all. but there is cases where the guys have lived for years without hormone supplementation in the aftermath of steriod abuse or even just TRT, their numbers never went back up either.

[@purfias]

the dude at the end talking about harm reduction has his own doco called "under construction" which is a great watch for anyone interested.

[@DCJayhawk57]

I know back in the day that Dorian Yates went off cold turkey after retiring, moved to South America and took ayahuasca lol. But I'm fairly certain he eventually went on TRT. I think that in pro bodybuilding circles that the "coaches" are usually just guys with best hookup to pharma grade gear. I know this is a big reason why guys go to Oxygen Gym in Kuwait for their preps. Regan Grimes went there a few years ago and suddenly blew up, don't think that's just from force feeding, think it's that the potency of what he was taking suddenly improved drastically. I've heard this is a reason why some think the guys in the 80s and 90s looked better overall, because they had better access to pharma grade gear, especially in the early to mid 80s before they were illegal. I have a friend who is thinking of going over to the dark side, he's a fairly high level natural amateur who will probably win a natural pro card at his next show or two. His coach is some rando no-name reported pro bodybuilder (would guess in Men's Physique since they give pro cards out like candy) who is influencing his young client to take gear, filling his head with dreams of the Classic Physique Olympia. I've done my best to convince him it's not worth it, and his chances of reaching the Olympia are slim to none, but it's hard when a guy is 24 years old and sees fitness as his life. I'm lifetime natural and don't plan to ever even take TRT. I don't think it's necessary in most cases, naturals who live a healthy lifestyle can make progress into their 50s, and after that, how many of us will still care if we have a 6 pack or look aesthetic? Life goals change, and it's unwise to sacrifice your longterm health or happiness for short term gain. That's a sign of immaturity in my mind. We do a lot to glamorize these mostly average intelligence meathead bodybuilders, very few of whom make it a successful career, and some of whom do out of luck and genetics alone, not through some intellectual gift or sacred knowledge.

[@GymJones865]

Good luck on making gains into your 50s.

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

No it's from the eating, steroids haven't changed at all since the 90s. You can take grams of shit and not even look like you lift if you don't eat and train

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

And not everyone gives a shit about living till 90 and being old, crippled and with all your friends dead...it's a sign of immaturity you'd think your idea of "health" is what everyone's should be. Some want to live like lions until 60-70 instead of withering away at 80-90

[@leelunk8235]

DC PUBLISH THAT BOOK YOU WROTE U CLOWN

[@enterthemedicinegarden]

Wow, had no idea about any of this, pretty heartbreaking for these guys.

[@davidrioux611]

Anyone watching this channel the goal is more than aesthetics! 51 years of age and I have been rock and ice climbing instructor as well as a strength coach. Most people don’t realize increasing muscle mass can improve physical appearance as well ability it just as often is a liability instead of an asset. Most strength focus sports; weightlifting, gymnastics, powerlifting, rock climbing and others require loads and leverage at 2.5 to 4 x body weight to compete at high levels. While more muscle equals more potential, every pound increase in body mass requires additional strength training beyond the training for the hypertrophy. Some athletes benefit from additional weight and mass like a football offensive linemen or power lifter because weight anchors them. While other athletes find it a disadvantage like a football wide receiver, gymnast, or rock climber because they they have to move the additional weight. Some weightlifters have benefited from going up weight class but some have shown better strength to weight numbers by dropping down in weight class.

[@jordanwatts290]

at 18:28 you spoke about eating disorders, before I even listen to the whole thing I want you to know it is just as prevalent in males just not as spoken. The first day I hated my body I was 8 years old. Developed a crazy binge eating disorder, hated every inch of myself. I told myself I was either going to be skinny or die. I stopped eating. Lost 97 lbs in 9 months, 214 to like 119-120. Only ate at max 700 calories for roughly 4 years. Dropped as low as 104. (I am 5'9") now I am 160. I put on a lot of muscle and I fight myself daily on if I should do steroids or not because no matter how hard I work the body image issues will never leave. Now sagging skin I can't quite fill out, all my peers are larger than me. This has been 2 decades of self loathing. I love this video and it helps give insight but it's nothing I haven't already heard. It's hard when you know the right choices to still want to make the wrong ones.

[@diede3x060]

19:55 in the Netherlands we have a service where you can test the drugs you have bought. It is completely anonymously and it is regulated by the gouverment. The results will show you what chemicals are in the drugs and the dosage of each chemicals . They do not test anabolics tho.

[@Juggernaut-fg2up]

I have taken everything under the sun, at one point I didn't come off at all for about 8 years even though I have done gear for much longer than that. I quit completely about about 9 years ago. I don't do anything at all except for Rejuvenation type peptides. no hormones no trt no gh no Clomid no hcg nothing. Best thing I ever did. Though it took my body years to get back to normal it's possible. I'm 50 btw Let me also add that I was a stripper for 12 years I used to travel the country performing at that point my maximum body weight was about 215 lb at 5 ft 9 and I found that I made more money in tips the smaller I was. Like when I got the flu and I was only weighing about 189 pounds when I went back to work I made more money, when I dropped all carbs or would look much flatter or smaller I would make more money. When you get past a certain point in size the only ones that like you are the old cougars or the gay guys

[@K4R3N]

What about the gay cougars? 😉

[@toxicduccinator]

7:02 About being able to recover - people dont really agree if you can or not and its 50/50, but in short, in my opinion, if you didin't have your testies surgically removed, then its possible, even if you got to a point of your balls not really existing, if you have literally anything in your nuts(at least pea sized) then its almost 100% possible, but depending how bad was your usage, and what age you started/stopped at(if you started using at 17 and hopped off after a year its gonna be really easy to recover, do the same at 50 and its a totally different story), the problem with that is the PCT drugs have pretty bad side-effect profile on their own, and to recover from blasting gear, it can take a couple of years on clomid non-stop. IMO you can recover from anything (maybe some fringe cases exist where you can't), its just most people who say they where not able to recover, had extreme cycles and then they try the default post-sarm/anavar PCT of clomid for a month, with maybe also hCG, but nothing more. Extreme cycles are GOING to require some extreme PCT. Most people have a defeatist mindset on recovering from roids(pretty much the same shit as about "you cant get big or strong natty") and dont even try and hop on TRT, and dont give it their all to recover.

[@Guykhan]

Ive been lifting on and off since i was 13 and never once had the urge to hop on gear. Weak people want fast results to cover up insecurities, but dont get me wrong, i was like that when i was younger, insecure and full of anxiety. These days i workout more for functionality and health.

[@csdamirk88]

Been on trt, did a full cycle for a bodybuilding contest, back to trt, then completely off (with pct) to try for a baby. I've been off for 4 years now. Yes, there is a way to come off and get your natural levels back up. Lifestyle factors like proper sleep, diet with decent amount of animal fats daily, and heavy lifting are all factors. It's not an overnight fix but it is do-able.

[@TheSn4zzle]

My opinions over the last 6 years of powerlifting have developed a lot. A) I don't think most people should do steroids, and TRT is even iffy except for extreme cases. I don't think people realize how even people getting it prescribed are going to "clinics" which basically are a front to get prescriptions for it B) If you genuinely want to be healthy I'm not sure if strength sports are even the right approach. It seems like for health you'd be better off doing some sorta aerobic activity 4-6 days a week and lift full body 2 times a week, mostly for bone density and ligament health. But squatting 500lbs, deadlifting 600lbs, etc just probably isn't the real way to be healthy. I think most people lie about being healthy in strength sports because the barrier to entry for strength sports is pretty low. You just need to be able to get into a gym with a barbell and do the workout and add weight over time. Whereas for an aerobic sports (running, cycling, swimming, hiking, etc) you have to build an aerobic base before really even trying it. C) Influencers are all grifters in some way. Doesn't mean they're bad. Zack has always come across like a decent dude, doesn't mean he's not grifting. So you have to be extremely careful with how you interpret information from influencers.

[@sushiczar2001]

I agree except aerobic sports aren't any different from strength sports. People looking for any tiny advantage sometimes see the risks of drug use as less important than winning. At the end of the day using drugs is a personal choice but the damage it does to the standards people set for themselves is really sad.

[@Tovashi]

Can you still build decent strength lifting full body twice a week?

[@Mr.PotatoAWESOMEFitnessTips]

aye, I'm an addict, Cocaine made me feel indestructible for a while, until it was the thing that was destroying me (way more intense than roids, I'll give you that)- But the thing is, after having to stop, took me almost a decade to feel normal again, 'cause everyday life just sucked balls for while. I'm actually thankful that I was sedentary back then, and managed to use the gym as a source of "intensity" to my life after being an addict, 'cause if it wasn't for the iron, I don't really know what would have happened, the training gave me structure, a routine, something to look forward to in a situation where everything else felt kinda dull for me. Now, I can only imagine, if the healthy thing that created the intensity for me, was directly attached to the thing I had to avoid. I've never heard of a single dude that completely got off roids, and I, unfortunately, saw a lot of dudes bang their boots in their 30s and 40s... It's a sad, sad thing, bruh.

[@Jake-the-author]

Great video as always Zack.

[@saintcender123]

At 20 minutes in, what you're discussing is a harm reduction strategy (giving kids testing kits/ensuring safe supplies) and it does save lives! It's in the similar vein as safe drug injection sites. The drug epidemic and safe supply is a tricky subject, and people will always find a way to obtain and use drugs. We can at least help to decrease the amount of drug-related deaths by promoting safe use and giving people the tools and means to make smarter decisions regarding their supply. In Vancouver right now, drug testing sites are popping up specifically for this reason.

[@misledpoet]

I started steroids at 24 (34 at the time of writing). I had run multiple different protocols, with the biggest one being 1g test enanthate with 800mg tren enanthate per week. I had tried getting off multiple times, with the longest period being 8 months straight, which resulted in two suicide attempts from the depression that came from being so shut down. I then made the conscious decision to get medically prescribed TRT and have it being monitored by an endocrinologist. Would I do things differently? Definitely. That being said, I didn't start from a good place. I was morbidly obese for the majority of my life, and was a social recluse as a result. Getting lean and jacked definitely changed my life for the better, and still has lasting effects to this day. It (hard training and dedication, not the steroids) taught me how to be confident in myself, and that I wasn't some weirdo that didn't deserve to have friends, let alone romantic relationships. I honestly don't know if I would have gotten to a similar spot at that point in time in my life, without getting that chance access to steroids, considering my life circumstances (which I will not get into here).

[@FaheemRashid]

Look up Jonni Shrive (Don't know if I spelled his last name right) he is an IFBB professional bodybuilder who just took 5th place in the Masters Olympia. He has been drug-free for 2 years. Not even TRT. And he competed drug-free in the Masters Olympia

[@gunbladesheen3811]

6:20 nice pause man . Thank you 😀

[@ScottDreyfus]

I started trt at 40 post pituitary tumor removal. My hormones never recovered so full hormone replacement. It changed my life for the good.

[@sionnach1]

I did my first cycle at 50. I was always unfit my whole life. At 45 I lost weight and got healthy. At 50 I wanted to gain back some of the physicality I had lost over a life poorly lived. My first cycle (12 weeks) was anavar, test e, aromasin and post with nolvadex (6 weeks). I'm not on trt. I've recovered over time. I will absolutely do another cycle (probably a couple more). And I will end up on trt, but I would end up on trt even without ever having done a cycle just become of the natural loss of test production over time. I'm not willing to go into that good night.

[@ZebiShredz]

I´ve been on and off test for about 4-5 years (EDIT: I am 34 years old now.) (250mg/week). Always gone off cold turkey without PCT, last time I was off for about 7-8 months, got tested at the doctors and my natural T was almost 700ng/dl which is in the normal reference range. I have also abused hard drugs, mainly heroin for several years with homelessness etc that can fuck up your levels too and I never tested myself before going on test so I dont know what my actual natural levels would have been. But I don´t know, I just got a bit tired and not as much motivated when I´ve gone off but not that much of a change tbh.

[@mattmax8599]

Is this real?

[@ikiosan1]

Very similar experience myself, I don't know maybe we're the outliers but I don't understand the hoopla about getting off and it being like a death sentence or something, sure you don't feel to hot for a month or two but that's about it, after that I've always felt just like I did before. Being 44yrs and like I said lived a similar lifestyle as you mentioned 🤷🏽

[@ZebiShredz]

Yes sir 100% real. I´ve made youtube videos about my life before, you can watch them if you want :)@@mattmax8599 @ikiosan1 Yeah thats my experience too, I am 34 years old now. Out here feeling 23 tho lmao

[@PaulSteere]

Peter Bond’s excellent steroid research book (srs buy it if you have a passing interest) has a section on how PCT is one of those things people believe without there being any real evidence for it’s efficacy.

[@ZebiShredz]

Damn, I did not know that! Def checking it out! Thank you for the recommendation :)@@PaulSteere

[@DirtySouth_Offroad]

Got on test, anivar and proviron at 31 y/o, “cruising and blasting” for 2 years. Debated my whole life about doing it, but was scared. The gains were good but not great. testicular atrophy is absolutely a thing, been off everything for about a year now and all is back to normal (finally) Mood swings even these “lighter” compounds is a thing. I’m easy going as it gets and flying off the handle at loved ones was almost weakly occurrence. Very glade I refused to take the “harder” stuff. Didn’t sit well with me that I’d be injecting stuff that was developed for beef up cattle before slaughter

[@harrison3910]

19:54 it’s the abstinence argument, you can’t stop it from happening, you might as well teach them to be safe. Doesn’t mean you have to condone it, but you don’t want people getting unnecessarily hurt.

[@coltonkosto98]

Hey zach, ive been natural for years and obsessed with the gym since i was 18. Im 31 now and i was also a heavy iv drug user. I couldve taken enclomiphine and hcg but i chose trt. I also have decent gentics for bodybuilding, so the way i justify it is, i wasted years of my life fucking around and there's medical ways to turn back the clock. I did blood work, came back with almost no free test, and made the decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm gonna cycle. But in the most responsible way i can with the info available and medical guidance. I think patience is key, not doubling down

[@dwang085]

Thank you for this Zack

[@tjstevenson2414]

Excellent commentary

[@ReviveStronger]

Talking from the perspective of a drug free bodybuilder I think many are unaware of how great of a physique you can achieve naturally. Also I was disappointed to not see them talk more about the tested side of bodybuilding, almost like it doesn't exist, but truly it's a fantastic option for those wanting to compete but not take drugs. Personally I have nothing against people using, especially if they are doing it to compete at that level but if someone just wants to feel better about themselves, the answer probably isn't steroids.

[@paddiemellon1413]

Intriguing video. Since "beauty" standards change over time is it possible we will see a change in men's physiques similar to what transpired in women's bodybuilding? Thinking back to the 90s (Corey Everson, Lenda Murray etc) when women were jacked there was a backlash to those physiques as being simply too "roided". The recent Olympias show us physiques that are off the chart - at what point does men's bodybuilding declare this is too much?

[@tomasoliveira1070]

You should definitely do another one of these videos about the NatGeo Traficked episode on steroids (season 1 episode 4)

[@EmoEmu]

I think UK has been going through a cyclical (ho hum) thing. I remember a short documentary some 20 or so years ago about how a famous mens fitness magazine wanted to start up in UK, but they couldn't find a single British model who lived up to the standards of the US editorial. Maybe they had become such a state union of dadbods, that we've since been seeing an overreaction from them?

[@Mr.PotatoAWESOMEFitnessTips]

AWESOME video, bruh, AWESOME- I had to pause and comment about Pete Rubish, he's a BEAST for taking the cold-turkey route, he's as intense in his approach off-roids as he was in his approach on-roids, you know what I mean? That dude has a switch that turns on whenever he likes, kinda like some Goggins mentality type of deal, IDN, might be saying bananas here, but he's the outliar of the outliar in my eyes. Anyways, I'm natty so, just saying whatever comes to mind as the video comes along, great shit so far, bruh, as always.

[@eclipsez0r]

Turning 42yo soon, been lifting weights all my life, will be ready for medically prescribed TRT soon

[@shreddedatsixty]

I did a few cycles in my late 30s to early 40s after lifting for well over 15yrs. I got great results because I had everything else dialed in. Looking back, I did far more damage to my body abusing recreational drugs. I have had 2 kids since turning 50 so clearly my T levels are good to go! 😎 Unfortunately, people are lazy and will choose the easy way if it presents itself. I just got back into lifting myself after the lockdown (and other personal sh*t) paused my plans. I'm experiencing some impressive "muscle memory" gains! The body is a remarkable piece of equipment capable of all sorts of incredible feats if you treat it right. I can't even imagine needing to be on TRT. I feel very sorry for the young men possibly damaging their bodies irreparably.

[@mosesacevedo]

Bro, you'd get bored of the underground lab side of things fast. Plenty of guys home-brew their own gear too. Its one of those things that looks complicated on the surface but is really simple. lol

[@mosesacevedo]

Also, with how easy it is to keep things sterile, it's absolutely disgusting when you hear about "dirty" gear. Some people really don't care about the well being of others.

[@K4R3N]

@@mosesacevedo if they did care they probably wouldn't be cooking this stuff to begin with!

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Part of how users get natural production back is through “PCT” or “post-cycle therapy”. If you don’t do that between cycles, it lowers your chance of getting natural hormone production back. It seems that some people don’t try but some people legit can’t get their testes to work again, partly could be due to genetics.

[@joshuabeeker]

Great video as usual. That outro 😂

[@JuanCastelazo]

I just turned 38, been on TRT for 3 years, I’ve never done any other steroid. My life has never been better. My Discipline, Drive, Focus has turned my life around.

[@SuperVigormortis]

14:26 absolutely. The chemistry part of it is super interesting

[@jctai100]

MPMD was recently on Peter Attia's podcast. It can take awhile though according to him, like years but eventually it kicks in albeit not at peak capability.

[@awesome369]

@7:08 For some, it is actually a life long thing, because the testes have atrophied to an extent where there's permanent damage, so they can actually not produce testosterone on their own. For others, the time it takes recover their original level of test varies, if at all, but there's hardly anyone who wants to suffer for like 2 years or so only to realise that they are never getting the pre non natty level of tests

[@2o3ief]

Just another perspective: telling people that getting back to natural function is "2 years of suffering" is sensational. Thousands of stories of people, in this comment section too, quitting cold turkey to no significant issues, or not running pcts without issues between multiple cycles. Yes, the longer and more significantly you abused the more likely you're going to suffer, but also much of that suffering is psychological--not to diminish that at all. If you were blasting over a gram of gear for years 800 is going to feel like suffering, but your body as well as your mental perspective will readjust. There is not a linear relationship between how you feel and your test levels. You know what its like to have absolutely crushed test. Unless your taking steroids your test fluctuates greatly, if you drink and stay up all night your test is now completely crushed, and yet its the lack of sleep and dehydration that in that moment are actually making you feel awful. Yes, being that low for prolonged periods of time is different. If you recovered your test to 500 and it was 600 naturally, you are not going to be able to track or pin anyway on how you feel to that difference. Similarly, a guy with a 400 test level who lifts, plays tennis 3x a week, and has a normal social life is going to feel way better on average than a dude who blasts gear, is big and strong but bad shape, etc etc. My test has dropped by about 200-300 points in the past couple years and I did not start at 800, because of some other medical issues I have. It's far from the thing most impacting my quality of life and although fixing those things will likely result in my test going up, if I started steroid right now, my quality of life would likely not meaningfully improve. And even if it did, it would also be completely transient and my baseline would adjust, and those mental gains would diminish greatly. Your body is relative and homeostatic. I can totally understand why someone who choose to "be on TRT for life" after using steroids, its basically free and you just got to pin a couple times a week. I would in that situation. But to say you basically cant get off TRT unless you want to suffer for years, is cope. And prematurely shutting a potential door for people to consider in their health and life because of a cope your addicted mind is telling you is not true or sound. Alcohol withdrawal can literally kill you, develop seizures and other serious medical problems, should we also not recover from alcoholism? I'm sure a lot of people who would have a higher quality of life because they hate pinning and spending money and just generally being on a therapy for the next 60 years of their lives, who could recover with relatively little complication don't because they've simply excluded that option from their mind. Give people information not dogma.

[@Brett733]

This is where HCG and proper PCT comes in huge and to be honest as long as you didn't have low test before steroids getting back in the normal range really isn't that hard to do for most people in a matter of weeks or months. Age, time on gear, genetics etc. play a factor but the body is incredibly resilient. I blasted and cruised for 5 years from ages 26-31 and recovered to normal test levels in 5 weeks with the help of HCG. It's really not hard to come off and it's more that people are afraid to lose strength and muscularity so they just stay on. I've met people that were forced to come off due to jail and prison without HCG or any PCT and they all recovered. Bottom line is almost always : if the cause of your low T is not pathological your HPTA will recover. Human's are resilient creatures.

[@Brett733]

@@2o3ief totally agree. people under estimate the resiliency of the human body when it comes to getting your test levels back. The 2 years suffering thing is ridiculous.

[@Mikey__R]

The thing is, you MIGHT be ok and get your natural production back, but it's not 100% guaranteed. There's a very real risk it won't come back, that risk goes up the younger you start.

[@Brett733]

@@Mikey__R Almost nothing in the physical world is "100% guaranteed" and "MIGHT" in this case is >99%. But, if there is no physiological reason for you to have low testosterone to begin with, there is also no physiological reason you won't regain normal test levels once the exogenous testosterone is removed, and quite quickly with proper PCT. The aphorism in the statement "the risk goes up the younger you start" is that the longer you are on: the longer you are masking what could be a natural physiologic reason for having low test. Put it simply if your body is capable of producing normal test levels it will with proper PCT. To be honest, all this stuff is really missing the point because steroids and TRT are DANGEROUS. BUT almost never because of the risk of not recovering to normal test levels. They are dangerous for multitudes of reasons like poor cardiovascular health, Ischemia, Thrombosis, Kidney, Liver, etc. Anyone who is decides not to take steroids because they think they won't be able to get back normal test levels is completely missing the point and almost always wrong.

[@mrdgenerate]

As a 15 year opiate dependent person who takes methadone now... I could live without, but I'd have to go thru torturous mental/physical pain first. TRT feels like a similar situation.

[@melaninfarmer]

WHat the fuck bro get your shit figured out and you shouldn't tell people that lol.

[@teiwaztim1482]

seeing this makes me praise every god and devil in this multiverse that ive remained natural in my 14 years of training. im 38, in fine shape, and dont give a goddamn fuck about my numbers, so long as i keep pushing them upwards. ive beaten substance abuse on 2 other fronts and the gym was my refuge after it all. ill never, ever threaten that with the possible gains id get from gear. fuck that, to hell and back. we love you zack!

[@stevenhewes1990]

Meanwhile, I am cruising around the void on my silver surf board. After absorbing the dark matter, channelling the power of the negative zone and wielding mjolnir.

[@teiwaztim1482]

@@stevenhewes1990 in the stadha of algiz, i intone the unnaccepted gandr of KLINGKLANG, the name of our united god in the chalkdusted universe. unaccepted by the non-neophytes, who have cigarette arms and legs of bone.

[@timmysawdust193]

Every god and devil in this multiverse….? Your head is messed up dude.

[@teiwaztim1482]

@@timmysawdust193 poor me. you think the western idea of god and jesus was the first? christianity is a pretty young religion, compared to plenty others.

[@nohandskiller8912]

whats your bench bro

[@TK-en2hq]

I did like 3 cycles in my younger 20's, came off, got fat, and started coming back around 26. Lots of life-related interruptions to the workouts, but I did "proper" PCT then just didn't use again.

[@coleby77]

Thanks for this Zack so important. I think the word lab is a stretch! I naively thought roids were “shipped in” from country’s with state sponsored doping programs and were made in controlled environments. I’m 46 yol clean lifter have always thought about roids but never taken the leap…deffo a hard no from me now!!!! 🏋️‍♀️🏋️‍♀️👏👏

[@leliel12th43]

I'm a Ph.D in Philosophy, about the ethical part it does seems to me that minimize the damage of a substance like PEDs is the way to go in the broad ethical views that I consider right in the most cases (ethics is hard, to have a theory that is the right one to use in every situation is not easy and maybe impossible). The largest safety you could have is it to be legal although it's a difficult question to know if it would increase the number of users and if this would be worst than taking the right of an individual to do whatever they want with their own body (given that it doesn't damage others). If it's not openly sold you are denying self-ownership to individuals and increasing the risk of them take poisoning substances: they don't have the right about their own body to decide to by and use something they want so the state actually has the right over individuals body and is its owner. To be the property of State and don't have the freedom and ownership of your own body is really bad and worrisome. Although I recognize that there's a lot of caveats and problems to be addressed and they haven't yet in the ethical literature. I hope to do it one day but right now I have other pressing research going on.

[@janemf]

Jesus tren is so wild, i understand why people take it but still, holy moly it’s a rough drug

[@coachcallumangus]

Brilliant video!

[@josefrancoach]

Great video!

[@AndyofCT]

So as far as going natural after gear, it’s definitely a case-by-case basis. You can atrophy the testicles to a point of no return, especially if your natural base was low-normal.

[@steven21736]

RE seed oils: delatestryl (pharma brand of testosterone enanthate) uses sesame seed oil as the carrier

[@TimPangan]

Playing this while I take a break from studying and eating lunch.

[@kh-wg9bt]

Im somewhat speaking from experience here. Most can recover and feel OK, and at that point even if they're now health conscious and done with heavy cycles, if trt can offer 20% of the performance benefit plus you feel better than even pre- usage then its worth it. With trt if you're in your 30s its a definite edge. Physically and mentally. For example you can work 50 hour weeks, sleep poorly, eat poorly and still have 800ng/dl levels around the clock. A naturals t levels will suffer massively. So i think it's still enhancement rather than replacement. Just healthier than blasting the stuff.

[@fayizfz]

As a natutal lifter i don't do bodybuilder style workout or lifestyle as i newer will be big and be shredded or see any change in body. That is why i would say natural should do powerlifting seeing improvement every week/month and the main varieable is quantity food provided you know how to sleep, pick food, form etc..

[@stonksgaming7322]

I know a guy who had his natural testosterone shut down after 1 test onl cycle, so it does happen. It's also super easy to make if you can get the raw powder.

[@iielysiumx5811]

There are a couple of kids in my gym (its a styudent gym, I am at uni) who we know are taking gear as they openly admit it (test and anadroll apparently), they are all about 19-21, only a year or so of training under their belts, One failed a 130kg deadlift and a 90kg bench, both 1RM attempts. Fully natural I deadlifted 215kg and benched 130kg with 2 years of training. It just is not worth it guys, just be consistent, trust the process and get quality training under your belt then make that decision when you know what is important to you. You can still be a beast natural.

[@MrAntonioCapone]

It took me a while to notice the Morrowind background ahah. At some point I was like "Wait, these giant mushrooms..." Pretty cool!

[@K4R3N]

14:30 some scary Breaking Bad shit man. I'm sticking with whey and Creatine from reputable labs. Wherever that gets me is good enough.

[@pissoff247]

Also, Zach, I am a huge advocate for harm reduction. I used to inject heroin for years and take pills for year before that. Without needle exchanges and sterile water for free, I may have HIV or HepC or have lost an arm. So, I agree with you on testing kits, but reagent tests are just the first step and you should never put 100% of your faith in them. You can test for fentanyl, but fentanyl is not the only synthetic opiate being used to cut other drugs. Unless you have access to a GCMS, don't trust any white powders or pressed pills unless you get them from the pharmacy. Unless it's a plant or a mushroom, I'm not putting it in my body right now. Shit is too wild out there

[@TheTuita]

Yeh, on Zack's TRT point I have to say when I hear people talking about long-term TRT, it often sounds more like a "low level boost" than "replacement". That is, I'm pretty sure most who haven't been blasting for like a decade would normalize within a "normal range", it's just that it can be hard to accept if their "normal" isn't the 800+ they'd hoped... so when they find out their level is 400, they think something is wrong when chances are that's where they may have been prior to usage (or what their test levels may have dropped to naturally by that time with no steroid usage at all). This isn't to criticize people for wanting to low-level boost... their body, their choice. But as it seems Zack suspects, I don't think (for most people) TRT is an actual long-term requirement, or a "replacement".

[@rossmillington4959]

Man, you should try and get chris to have this geordie love island guy on his podcast. Would be fun to have 2 love island guys on especially when they've both evolved their careers into basically health broadcasting.

[@MellonVegan]

6:20 It really depends. It may take years for your levels to normalise, maybe a decade. I'm not entirely sure but you'd possibly always be behind where you'd have been without taking steroids in the interim (I have not fact checked this bit, that might just be bro talk, grain of salt etc.). It also depends on your pattern of use (never ever going off until you stop is becoming a lot more common these days). Taking "mild" (some guys are lying to themselves and just doing a not so extreme cycle, basically) dosages for the rest of your life may end up being better for your quality of life for the same reasons that some older men decide to hop on trt. In the end, it's a case by case thing concerning possibility and the willingness to struggle through the very long recovery process. And then there's the self-image thing like Pete said in his comment. Edit: Oh you meant as in entirely impossible? Not being able to live without exogenous test? Nah, that's not a thing. Extremely rare if it is.

[@Hakan-Firat]

I think Alexander Bromley gone cold turkey when he stopped using (I don't know if he is still not using it though). Maybe you can contact him and ask him. A interview would be nice.

[@henrismith7472]

Cottonseed oil is the carrier oil that is used in pharmaceutical steroids. It is actually inferior to some underground lab preperations that use MCT or grapeseed oil which cause less inflammation. There sre dodgy underground labs too though.

[@Elricwulf]

I'm just appreciating the Morrowind landscape in the background!

[@h3Xh3Xh3X]

Preparation: The powder is dissolved in a suitable solvent, often a mixture of organic solvents and oils which help to solubilize the steroid and improve its injectability. The solution should be sterilized to eliminate any bacterial or fungal contamination, with filtration, heat or a combination. Sometimes, additional substances like benzyl alcohol or benzyl benzoate are added as preservatives or to improve solution stability.

[@arghnews]

Having watched the VICE piece, the thing that stuck out to me, was how unimpressive that guy who's going in for surgery looked considering he's been on gear for years. Tbh when I first saw it, I couldn't believe he was on gear.

[@Nemesisthetrickster]

Literally just sat down with my lunch to watch this.

[@moonstruck336]

as someone who had made his own from raws I would rather use micron filters, and though you can eliminate the threat of infection, you still have to trust that the raw powder you bought as E.g. testosterone Enanthate is actually testosterone Enanthate so it's always a risk. That being said if you buy pharma grade stuff from a pharmacy and stick to that and some orals you can get the good of steroid use and not take any additional risks

[@MarkarthCityGuard]

One of my coworkers and friends used steroids from 10-6 (then 2 years of trt) years ago. He now claims to not even be on trt anymore. He's pretty buff and just had his first baby last month.

[@ayda2876]

7:00 its just that some people never recover hormone wise, their T levels never come back so they get depressed and anxious. Dorian Yates talked about this

[@RonVolkovinsky]

If the underground chemistry aspect of steroids are interesting to you, check out Hamilton Morris! He's a chemist and documentary maker who made a whole series on clandestine manufacture of recreational drugs called Hamilton's Pharmacopeia. He also talked to Patrick Arnold on his podcast about anabolic steroids, could be an interesting listen.