"I’m Thinking of Ending Things" Director Roundtable (Kaufman, Linklater, Jenkins, Lanthimos, Riley)

Watch this exclusive roundtable of four beloved indie filmmakers talking with Charlie Kaufman about what makes his latest film so unique.
It only took a matter of seconds for the “I’m Thinking of Ending Things” IndieWire Filmmaker Roundtable to become as probing, neurotic, and compellingly plagued by other people’s thoughts as the Charlie Kaufman movie that the event was created to celebrate. The 45-minute Zoom conversation between Kaufman and four other iconoclastic filmmakers who all self-identify as major fans of his work - Tamara Jenkins, Yorgos Lanthimos, Richard Linklater, and Boots Riley - plunged straight into the depths of the artistic mindset when moderator David Ehrlich kicked things off by asking Kaufman how he felt about the polarized response to his Netflix adaptation of Iain Reid’s novel, a dizzying psychological horror story about a girl (Jessie Buckley) who joins her joins her maybe-soon-to-be-ex-boyfriend (Jesse Plemons) for dinner at his parents’ snowbound farmhouse.
After lamenting that he couldn’t stop himself from reading what the internet had to say about it, Kaufman told the group about the most recent sting: In the comments section of the New York Times’ list of the year’s best movies, some random troll had cheered the omission of “I’m Thinking of Ending Things,” and a handful of other people had piled on in agreement. “You got what you wanted!” Kaufman wanted to say to those strangers, but he wisely saved his grievances for the more sympathetic crew that Netflix had rallied together for this online chat. “It’s not the critique,” he explained, “it’s when it gets weirdly personal. I sort of feel like ‘why do you hate me?’”
That’s when Linklater chimed in to offer some well-earned wisdom and sincere words of encouragement: “It does suck,” he told Kaufman, “and [when you release a movie] you really have to deal with what the world is bouncing back at you for a window of time. I think [those commenters] are sort of impoverished people who are poisoned by the storytelling tropes they’ve come to expect. You’re in pure cinematic territory. Rest assured, when we look back at 2020 - at this period in history - you have offered the world maybe the greatest cinematic gift.”
So began a rare, honest, and revealing dialogue that see-sawed between an interview and an intervention as the topic shifted from the nature of criticism, to the value of originality, the future of streaming, why Boots Riley sees Kaufman as the cinematic equivalent of Morrissey, and a wide variety of other subjects that all stemmed from a dizzying film with a lot on its mind. You can check out the conversation in its entirety at the top of this page, though - for any number of different reasons - we recommend that you make sure to watch “I’m Thinking of Ending Things” before you do. The film is now available to stream on Netflix.

[@PomegranateStaindGrn]

I love the way everyone came together to support Charlie Kaufman during this round table.

[@schmootheonly]

Charlie I loved this movie I’ve watched it 10 times and it got me through a suicidal time of my life, to feel seen and understood. Every time I watch I crawl into that world that’s so sad and weird but comforting at the same time. Having a piece of art touch me like that started the process of digging myself out of depression and being interested in life again.

[@ellaprice9657]

The authenticity of Charlie Kaufman's work is so inspiring. He's making real human art in an industry that's mostly just interested in marketing.

[@RustinChole]

I always love his work. This one required some research, (I wasn’t familiar with Oklahoma) for me but once I knew what was happening, think it’s my favorite.

[@DevyanshBahri]

@@RustinChole do you think specifically watching Oklahoma helped you in understanding this movie? Cause I haven’t seen the musical and didn’t really feel the need to watch it to understand the movie to a large extent. I definitely don’t fully understand the movie though, as is expected by a Kaufman film.

[@RustinChole]

@@DevyanshBahri no - but being familiar with the basic story beats, Judd’s character, the knife fight, and the song “lonely room” absolutely provided much needed context for the final act - in my experience. I don’t think there’s much in that movie to not understand, honestly. Once you know what’s happening it all makes perfect sense. It just requires some random, likely obscure to most people, pop culture knowledge without which it would seem much more abstract than it is. I have never, and likely will never watch Oklahoma. I just LOVE Kaufman - specifically ESOASM, Adaptation, Synechdoche New York, and I’m Thinking Of Ending Things. I don’t think Kaufman’s films have random unexplainable stuff in it. They just require full, phone turned off no talking attention, and repeated viewings. Absurdity? Sure. But things you aren’t meant to understand, I don’t take that away from his films, (or his book).

[@RustinChole]

@@DevyanshBahri in fact - I often recommend people watch an explanation video first. Even having a basic understanding of what’s gonna happen doesn’t spoil the movie. Easily my favorite meditation on suicide I’ve yet seen on film. The first time I watched it I had no idea the woman was fictional, and that the title was a direct reference to the janitor contemplating suicide, I thought it was about the girlfriend thinking of ending the relationship. I didn’t even catch that Plimpton could hear his gf’s thoughts till I saw it the second time after an explanation video. I didn’t even make it to the second act the first time I watched it, cause I was so lost, and I knew CK has a narrative through line, I just couldn’t see it until I knew what to look for.🤷🏻‍♂️ Amazing film.

[@prod.fullright8319]

This my dream blunt rotation

[@christopherthompson651]

The way Boots talks about streaming and being able to do research while watching is super interesting. It is a new mode of spectatorship that is only possible in the streaming era. I do this myself but I've never thought about it in the way he described it. Fascinating stuff.

[@AdDeRidder]

CT - especially given the number of literary references in this piece in particular. Charlie even said somewhere that some phrases that the characters speak are lifted from other sources, beyond what the characters expressly reference. I'm tempted to rewatch with the intent of googling notable phrases to see if they are quotes from elsewhere. I watched this film having already read a satisfactory resolution of the movie (I only watched because I understood the movied and liked the concept) So it was like my first viewing of the movie was what most people would get from their second viewing. It was less confusing, but knowing mostly what was happening made me appreciate all the more the crafting of the story. I might have been one of those viewers that walked away confused and unimpressed had I not known beforehand.

[@JohnNobody_]

OMG! just the presence of these people at roundtable is the most awesome thing in itself! ❤️

[@diegom-a7970]

34:01 "Yogurt" Lanthimos 😂😂😂

[@dimentoplexitronum4923]

Incredible group of directors.

[@pburns6961]

Thank GOD I'm Thinking Of Ending Things isn't mentioned in this video

[@mroberts2002]

wow- what a treat to get to know a little bit about all these amazing people. Cinema is alive. I have so many threads to follow from this that my head is spinning!

[@morganreinwald7374]

Charlie this film is a genuine masterpiece! For certain my faviroute film of the year

[@megamoviez]

Mine too! I’m still thinking about it!

[@RustinChole]

@@megamoviez same. Can’t stop watching it. Every time I discover something I missed. Such an incredible accomplishment.

[@harrysvu]

Charlie Kaufman is the greatest mind of this generation

[@manuu759]

Thank you I'll take it as an compliment

[@megamoviez]

True

[@g0dzilla_au]

Holy shit that summary around 7:00 really described something about Kaufman that I haven't been able to express

[@AdDeRidder]

Writing, editing and producing are HARD. Charlie did all three for this movie. In addition the way he tells the story is designed to stir up emotion, including some confusion. Some people do not appreciate that tension of the unknown. They want the director to 'tell the story' in a more standard way - exposition, tension, climax, resolution (usually with a twist). But it's beautiful (although painful for him) how Charlie leaves room inside the story for people to find their own experience of the movie. It's amazing to me how openly he solicits other peoples' views and feedback (I read that actors would give them their interpretation and he'd never correct them - he'd listen to their experience. Similarly I watched interviewers tell Charlie what he meant to say in his own movie - to his face. And Kauffman would listen intently. That's AMAZING! ) It's surprising to hear his comment at around the 20 min mark that despite all the feedback, he did not change the movie very much movie between the time that he wrote it and its release. The changes were as a result of feedback on the almost final product solicited from friends and advisors. So despite the constant feedback, it would seem that Kauffman DID have a clear version of what the movie should look like from the beginning.

[@DevyanshBahri]

Actually he’s not credited as an editor on this movie

[@captain_eclectic]

Thank God for this. I could watch this call all day.

[@heatherrel7978]

can't believe this has been viewed less than 6000 times. what a great interview.

[@PogieJoe]

I second that I could have watched this conversation for hours.

[@DonnieBrook69]

Thanks for pulling me off of the ledge in 2020, Charlie.

[@MAFion]

I think Tamara Jenkins has it right comparing Kaufman's writing to Sam Shepherd plays. I recently re-watched Synecdoche too and wondered if he was inspired by La Turista, True West, or Buried Child. A kind of American surrealism.

[@flynnjaman]

This movie has so much in common with The Shining, and I love that Tamara brought in the play Buried Child. All have themes of the absurd, cyclical nature of the family system breaking down over time, with TIME also as a character, which also plays into the horror genre. Horror is cyclical in its nihilism & it’s absurd continuous acts of murder. Child abuse is also a central theme in everything mentioned above, and here’s something I’d like to throw out there: who else thinks The Janitor molested that girl with the “birthmark” at the Tulsi Town/shy girl he passes in the hall? That looked more like scrapes than a birthmark, and at the end Jake says, “He’s looking at us like a pervert! A look I’m very familiar with!” Sure, some might think it’s just a perception the mean girls & kids place on him at school. Jake or The Janitor is an unreliable narrator, so it could just be an urge, someone he thinks he could connect with, since they both seem invisible to everyone else. Who knows? All I know, is that I’ve seen this movie 17 times Ah yes, PS: The Yellow Wallpaper is also in here, too. The woman becoming an object of the house of his mind, or the fact that she’s wearing a floral dress, similar to his wallpaper. Come join us

[@moosemush]

Great roundtable, so fascinating to listen to! I love to hear filmmakers heap praise on each other like this.

[@adilrhyder]

Loved this! Hope you guys do more round tables like this!

[@paulwheeler6888]

This was a delightful conversation amd I would love to see these people all together again

[@GoatgutsRecords]

3 of my favorite moviemakers in a call, amazing!

[@agastyasingh4548]

Who are those?

[@heytherescooterboys922]

If I had to guess: Kaufman, Linklater, and Lanthimos, but I could also just be listing my top 3 of the bunch

[@bennyjones1502]

David Ehrlich, one of the books on Charlie Kaufman’s wall, and Boots Riley’s glorious sideburns.

[@emergentwave]

Fascinating conversation!

[@kylebookout1789]

High praise from Linklater! Didn't even know this was out. Definitely watching it! Great talk.

[@volcancism.a.d6010]

I hope this becomes a series with different films. More please!

[@leoelliondeux]

Seeing Linklater trying to get a word in in the beginning is killing me.

[@refoliation]

This rocks I’d vastly prefer to listen to these brilliant people talk about the movie than somebody’s nephew at an entertainment outlet trying to build a career in Hollywood asking Charlie fatuous questions. 👍

[@Jibbolino]

Wow, what an amazing discussion. Thank you guys. This movie is, by the way, excellent in so many ways.

[@megamoviez]

This is the best movie of the year! I’m still thinking about it. Excellent discussion with all these cinema masters!

[@LLlap]

I just watched it. It was really good. I recommended it to many people. Amazed that you start off about some critics.

[@oliveoil5278]

Charlie Kaufman boots Riley collab when

[@flrnce]

This deserves more attention

[@sallyip271]

Please do more of these for other films!!

[@rollacoastaride1937]

"I DON'T WANNA LIVE IN A WAREHOUSE", I was living just to hear that line

[@username1939]

That ending got me tear up

[@agastyasingh4548]

I love Charlie Kaufman !

[@manuu759]

Hi ! My name is Charlie Kaufman

[@DanA-bt7dr]

Charlie rocking a Wellington brewery shirt? Cheers from Canada 🍻

[@castingyule530]

❤️

[@kalai_doscope]

NOICE

[@ashwins8276]

I'm thinking of ending things was unlike any movie I'd ever seen

[@lonelyone]

This was a great roundtable interview, but I'm kind of sad that Yorgos didn't get to answer the last question. It felt like it got rushed at the end.

[@grapes9h5]

This is a murderers row line up!!!!!

[@cranberrycanvas]

It’s is my favorite movie of all time mr. Kaufman if that helps at all lol

[@bernardogonzalez4337]

Charlie Kaufman es Dios

[@emilianomarquez1629]

Y se sale con la suya.

[@DavidRosen]

I want that shirt

[@DanA-bt7dr]

Charlie's shirt? Look up Wellington brewery up here in Canada!

[@thequitestupid]

Does Yorgos have a corded phone in the back?

[@zekec6088]

I had the same impulse to watch 'Woman Under the Influence' as it was being discussed in I.T.O.E.T. but I didn't follow through, immediately. Did anyone else?

[@BunnyMan456]

Well the movie basically ended right before that monologue, so I understand that instinct.

[@howard5992]

Woman Under the Influence is a pretty amazing film. If you see it I recommend you follow it up with " Mikey and Nicky "

[@guysimchony309]

I relate very much to what Tamara was saying, the main reason I had trouble connecting with the film was the betrayal when the complex mind we had been living inside for at least the first half turned out to be some male construction. I was both disappointed by that turn and didn’t really buy it

[@JEEDUHCHRI]

But did you buy it before the realization? Because on the first level, the complex mind we were living inside was a construction of Kaufman’s.

[@guysimchony309]

@@JEEDUHCHRI I appreciate Kaufman’s looseness with the boundaries between his characters’ self-determination and their obvious constructed-ness, but it doesn’t make for an engaging film narrative IMO. I was invested in Buckley’s character and still aren’t willing to concede to her being merely a cerebral plaything.

[@ParanoidAndroid29]

@@guysimchony309 the female complex mind existing in a male complex mind is the construction of a male complex mind. Do you think that the janitor is not a complex mind? or does your enjoyment of the character rest on the ability to identify with a particular gender narrative?

[@DevyanshBahri]

Kaufman had said that one of most important things that he was working on for this film was turning the young woman’s character into a fully developed human being on her own though

[@oliveoil5278]

I agree I was also thrown for a loop and initially denied the interpretation that she was a projection at all. but in a lot of Kaufman’s movies the boundaries between gender are flipped or gradient. Lots of transformation. I guess with this in mind and an expectation going in I didn’t find it disappointing but actually touching, real and indicative of Charlie’s mind.

[@FillBar]

Charlie, mainstream audiences are the morons who gave over a billion dollars to Minions and trash remakes. Your film will outlast the mass' incompitence.

[@debrachambers1304]

What if we all trashed the movie in the comments regardless of our actual opinions

[@nukembear2345]

What about Larry elder's documentary Uncle Tom, it's a fabulous documentary on how black people can change their mindset and be successful anywhere!

[@johnnystevens1248]

the "shut the fuck up Richard Linklater" challenge

[@bernae1902]

Who invited Linklater?

[@SBphd]

This movie was horrible. Lazy writing and poor story telling.

[@cappingbeara3212]

Cool! Except the writing was the opposite of lazy and the only reason you could consider the storytelling “poor” is that you weren’t interested enough to pay attention. Which is fair, but you can’t shit on the director for your uninterest.