I'm Thinking of Ending Things reviewed by Mark Kermode

[@jeevaneshsawhney9726]

Charlie Kaufman is a "genus".

[@gemmazoey9298]

did he get a pin?

[@merdufer]

The luck of the draw, really.

[@MH-yu7gw]

Lol good one.

[@BenPole90]

But I told all my friends!

[@Voeris1]

..... bruh

[@hjfleeds]

Surprised by the criticism that it feels like a radio play. I found it visually extraordinary, even during the conversational scenes. Kaufman uses so many weird shots and editing tricks to make this feel like a waking dream and constantly disorientate the viewer. I really loved it.

[@ben0000000000]

Yes!!!!!

[@zacharyfarr5044]

Right before the parents age starts changing, he uses the famous Fellini shot from La Dolce Vita where you think the camera is a POV of the character, and then it pans as the character walks into frame and you realize it's not.

[@nsimmons8620]

I couldn't agree more.

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

yes, i love his style! great edits. but those scenes are mired in overlong talk which ends up distracting from what we've discovered, as if we weren't meant to figure it out yet. frustrating.

[@pobbityboppity1110]

The dialogue already establishes that. The visuals don't add anything throughout so much of the film. I agree with the radio play take. Or rather that its boldness would be better on stage.

[@finhulkster]

"Yeah. Whatever" -Simon Mayo

[@stalfithrildi5366]

@@johnulcer I thought it was that he remembered Kaufmann being mean to his mate and was not gonna stand for that

[@maryconnor6173]

I thought he was affronted at Mark’s suggestion that he interviews himself

[@fluff975]

synecdoche new york _is_ a masterpiece

[@killerdls]

That movie is so much better then I’m thinking of ending things

[@fluff975]

@@DisasterArtist1997 yes--virtually by design

[@iain2080]

@@DisasterArtist1997 I think people who say this or variations on this didn't understand it

[@MrShort]

NYS is my favourite film. I watch it all the time.

[@MaximTendu]

@@DisasterArtist1997 let's compromise on "messterpiece"

[@gareththornton8028]

Completely baffled how anyone could say the film had no heart. It’s such a deeply human story - full of honesty, tenderness, pity and love. Still haunting me 2 days later and probably will for some time.

[@crappymcdick]

I agree with you! I think what they mean is that the movie is so cold and hopeless. It's very uncomfortable in that way. But it's almost more subtle in it's execution because the movie isn't straight up telling you that it is hopeless, it isn't in your face about it, which in turn makes it more depressing.

[@gareththornton8028]

CrappyMcDick I agree Kaufman paints a fairly bleak picture of the human condition, but his films are far more than an intellectual mediation on meaninglessness and absurdity. They are much more about how people try and deal with that fate. That’s where the heart comes in. I think this film especially (and Synecdoche) burst with a sense of pity, sympathy and compassion for his characters’ attempts to find connection with the world or each other. They are also full of small acts of kindness, moments of love, that are all the more beautiful for being set against a nihilist backdrop. Just couldn’t disagree more with Mark. Kaufman’s films probe deep into the human experience and the human heart.

[@markhales5441]

Yes !!!

[@cosmofuckingbrown]

Completely agree I felt horrible for a while

[@123rockfan]

That’s pretty interesting, I just watched the movie tonight and you basically described the complete opposite of what I experienced while watching the film. The movie left me cold, and I think it’s quite forgettable. And honestly, while the watching the movie I almost thought it was meant as a satire about people who read too much into things

[@minkstar9021]

The first hour of this film is so strange and bizarre it's down right uncomfortable.

[@AngryLittleGnome]

Not to mention the second hour.

[@joecook5689]

Didn't need naked janitor with cartoon pig in my book. But Charlie's book is brighter than mine obviously.

[@joecook5689]

Critics need to remember their expectations skew their critique.

[@AngryLittleGnome]

@@sumeya1923 No thanks. Movies are meant to adapt books successfully so that you don't need to read them 😋

[@mutualinsanity2514]

Thats the point.

[@cameronkaercher919]

I woke up this morning and pressed play. Kind of like Da 5 Bloods, I checked my hesitations at the door and just took it for what it is. I don’t really watch Kaufman for self restraint. I personally loved it.

[@EscargoTouChaud]

Whatever. I was enthralled from beginning to end. Didn't read anything about it or see the trailer (because they always manage to spoil and ruin things), just went in. Very unsettling and fascinating experience. Lynchian at times.

[@zab416]

It's not my fave of Kaufman's, but I see the Lynch thing. I thought the dinner had strong Eraserhead vibes while being its own thing.

[@EscargoTouChaud]

@@zab416 And when people suddenly disappeared from view, it was a bit Mulholland Drive. In fact, once I understood the deal, it reminded me very much of MD. - The "wish it were like this".

[@EscargoTouChaud]

@@matttully1904 Dumbledore in Harry Potter: "Of course it's all in your head. But does that make it any less real?". :D But, er, it actually does in a way, and Mulholland Drive and this film meditate so hauntingly on these things!

[@alexanderlangenberg201]

That house was Eraserhead, Lost Highway and Inland Empire all rolled into one.

[@heeeyyy2947]

I loved the film BUT I do understand Mark's criticisms-- particularly as someone that also read the novel-- HOWEVER-- rather than putting one work's climax over the other-- I'll say that I personally found both to be equally rewarding for different reasons: Reid's original ending is more emotional, if not somewhat predictable, while Charlie's is more interpretable and experimental, if not perhaps a bit more impenetrable and, thus, less "emotional" -- I think it makes for a great case to both read the book AND watch the film!

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

The film's ending did leave me puzzled, but I kind of got it at the same time.

[@schmuck.on.wheels]

I read the book first too, and it kind of reminds me of the differences between the book and movie of 2001. Honestly, I think the best way might be to watch the movie first, then read the book, then return to the movie.

[@treehuggingveggieboy]

It wowed me! Synecdoche is my favourite film of all time. ITOET feels self indulgent because it reflects how we are all so self absorbed; it’s one man contemplating his life. Similar to Synecdoche (I’m just a little person), it deals with the paradox of feeling like life revolves around you yet being constantly reminded of your insignificance.

[@SinspaW]

I'm not very familiar with Charlie Kaufman's work. I only recently watched Eternal Sunshine, and I didn't know coming to this movie that it was written by the same person. I do understand the criticisms from both Kermode and Mayo, even if Mayo seems a little bit overly angry about it. That said, the film touched me on a deep level. I'm going through a bit of an existential crisis myself at the moment, at the same time I'm still not completely over a breakup of a long relationship, and perhaps because of that the film got to me more than it will to the average viewer. It made me have profound thoughts about reality, and existence, and love, and it helped me on this voyage of life. I can't say I enjoyed every moment of it. In fact a lot of the times the film felt very dark, very unhappy. I felt I wanted to get out of the car scenes too, and some others as well. But I felt like that was the point. That trip was not supposed to be comfortable, neither was dinner for that matter. If you're feeling that way, it's on purpose. Anyway, it was a very intense experience for me, regardless of whatever faults it may have, so a completely worthwhile experience.

[@erikmchatton]

That's a shame because this film moved me profoundly. The scene where she and the janitor hug made me genuinely cry. Brilliant film.

[@calum8498]

Me too, found this to be an incredibly moving film, the scenes where he's caring for his ageing mum were heart wrenching

[@pobbityboppity1110]

The scene where during the hug the janitor leers at the young woman, the same way all of the olde men do at women through the whole movie? Really? So unsettling. No kindness there.

[@OkLetsPlayTv]

I saw it as an internal narrative to dementia.

[@georgepool2241]

I agree with Mark here but understand why others love it

[@WAAAAAAAAAAAY]

"Turns a pot-boiler in to a chin-stroker" that's great

[@pocketsesmcflurry2146]

What are some other adaptations that's applicable to? The only other one I can think of is the remake of Suspiria from a few years ago.

[@WAAAAAAAAAAAY]

@@pocketsesmcflurry2146 Good question. The Suspira remake is a great example. Benjamin Button is something comes to my mind also but Suspiria is perfect in the context of this film

[@nicheman3612]

@@WAAAAAAAAAAAY Benjamin Button was the inverse: a moving and sharply written short story turned into a rather clunky and schmaltzy 3 hour film.

[@WAAAAAAAAAAAY]

@@nicheman3612 that's not the inverse, it's the same. Kaufman's turned a moving, sharply written short story in to an over-indulgent bore-fest

[@nicheman3612]

@@WAAAAAAAAAAAY The terminology doesn't fit. I just don't think you can call an F Scot Fitzgerald story a "pot-boiler". If anything that is the chin-stroker in a good way. The Button film is the pot-boiler because it's more banal. But I get what you're saying.

[@nicholaspoulos7694]

Even if you don’t find the movie spectacular it at least has very interesting ideas. Same with synecdoche. Both are very thought provoking.

[@TheCuggsmeister]

Different strokes for different folks. I absolutely loved Ending Things. And Synecdoche New York is one of my favourite movies ever.

[@toshcameron366]

Who cares about the box office!!! Most of todays top grossing films will be forgotten, Charlie Kaufmans work will live on.

[@ryanwhittaker2167]

When was the last time you heard people talking about last years billion dollar movie Aladdin😂

[@pradeep_sekar]

Ryan Whittaker Endgame is a masterpiece

[@williampb4166]

I remember that Zodiac bombed at the box office, that movie is a masterpiece

[@Superphilipp]

Well, if he doesn't make money, he cant keep making movies.

[@toshcameron366]

@@Superphilipp These guys are critic's right? Not entertainment "journalists."

[@stevegoodson9022]

Can't believe I almost missed a new Kaufman film, praise be to reviewers for bringing it to my attention.

[@tbastdgagitw]

Its a movie about growing old with all the anguish heartbreak and regret. Almost perfect. I felt all he wanted to convey.

[@joshuafairhurst5891]

Think there's lots to be admired with this, beautifully directed, deeply unsettling, gave me the "fear" but I completely lost patience with it by the end. Kauffman desperately needs an executive producer on board who can tell him "no". Also, a 2 and a half hour film *that* bleak really is a tough watch. An achievement for sure but hard to feel like it's not a missed opportunity

[@joshuafairhurst5891]

Also, was it me or did he invoke "Up" during the dance scene, especially with the score

[@chrismuskha]

Curious, I felt this one worked more as a visceral experience rather than a cerebral one.

[@fifimelville2434]

Me too.

[@pobbityboppity1110]

I think it started that way but gave way to something that didn't draw in emotion or empathy. Too much I was trying to decode, to connect with.

[@millionaire5]

Did anyone else like the film ending better than the book’s? I thought the tonal shift from weird horror to straight horror didn’t work that well and the rug pull twist was a bit too abrupt. Most of all I don’t think it served the “characters” as well as it could have, I thought the same story presented in a different way in the film allowed you to process what was happening and the emotional reality of it a lot better. I also wonder how critics would react to a more faithful adaptation of the book if they found this one morose and depressing. Overall loved the film.

[@hunterbwoodward]

It was kind of abstract and surrealist kind of, which is very kaufman.

[@cynicshminic]

The movie telegraphs the 'twist' a lot harder than the book does, yet actually pulls back in the execution of the ending. I liked it, I think it works for the shift in medium.

[@clairelodge72]

I liked the film 1000x more than the book.

[@joekratman1872]

I don’t even really think the film treated the “twist” as a twist. Upon rewatching it’s very clear from the beginning what Kaufman is trying to do, he just doesn’t spoon feed the audience which is why it’s getting such a polarizing reception. Personally, I love the book and film for different reasons, but the film just edges the book out in terms of my personal enjoyment.

[@roneteus]

Interesting. I thought Synecdoche was a masterpiece and this one put me through the wringer while I was cuddled up inside my blanket. In a good way, of course. I need to rewatch his Kaufman's earlier works again because I was a late teenager when Eternal Sunshine came out. Those are gonna feel a whole lot different as a thirtysomething.

[@horrawist2766]

Did you forget how old you are?

[@briansmith2163]

Synecdoche is a brilliant gigantic work. Like great literature or painting or music, when it is challenging, the audience needs to get off their complacent spoon fed butts and work at it a bit more. Let it breathe in your mind. Mull it over. Revisit it. It is worth it. These are not Disney films.

[@elipersky1591]

I don't see how you can find those long conversations boring. Everything is in motion throughout if you are paying enough attention. Not just the factual details which eerily morph in a dreamlike way but also the subtle shifts in the tone of the conversation which constantly bounce you around from line to line.

[@lucianos099]

I loved it.. but he is right, i started to love the movie when i solved mentally part of the puzzle, then the characters really got me.. i felt really identified with them, especially Jake.. i think that this movie is directed for certain kind of people, who can really emphatized and connect with this characters.. for me it was like i was watching my life.. really inspiring and touching.

[@CHROMIUMHEROmusic]

*Warning: SPOILERS and opinions ahead* I was really enjoying this film until near the end when the switch of perspective occurred, Jake seemingly fought and killed himself during a dance and then there was some singing and its over. Maybe this is a bit of a standard/cliche ending to expect but I was disappointed there wasn't a moment of clarity/lucidity for Lucy, or at least a HINT of what she IS/WAS in the film. Did she even exist ?? If she does, what role does she actually play in Jake's life and where did she go in the end???? Why does she get called different names? The Janitor=Jake reveal was nice and that scene where Lucy forgets who he is was honestly heartbreaking, but the ending after that made me question the relevance of most of what I'd watched as Lucy is relegated from the POV of the story to a side character that may not even be real. Maybe slightly too many unanswered questions in this one for me. Overall I did enjoy watching it and the confusion from Lucy's perspective was fantastically disoriented, really intriguing and kept me invested throughout, but that got abandoned for a pretty unsatisfying string of scenes with no meaning (that I as of yet can figure out) and way more questions with not enough answers. This is just my opinion though!!!!! :)

[@snutssss]

wait, what? by her own words at the end he met her once and didn’t even talk to her. she’s clearly was a fantasy

[@ilash81]

Hahaha. Simon's "yeah, whatever" may just be the greatest review ever.

[@lwaves]

I took that as being aimed more at Mark than at the movie.

[@mehulkoshti08]

@4:53 lmao to "yeah, whatever.."

[@muhammadfauzan6864]

man, i love simon.. he is funny in his own way

[@MrKstate21]

I laughed out loud

[@mguevarra61]

I Can't. I'm Dead!

[@ConnorJamming494]

I like the chilled out Mark in this video. He wasn’t a fan but was just cool about it.

[@stalfithrildi5366]

Interesting how recently Mark said that he hated the Angry Kermode persona that sometimes came across because a reviewer shouldn't be the centre of attention regarding a film. I think that view is incredibly valid and noble with most cinema, but not with SatC2, which most definitely is dripping wealth porn

[@ggfffgggds]

Brilliant movie. I still think Synecdoche NY is his best, but there are many things in this film that are very similar. I'm surprised Mark doesn't mention the incredible sound design or the visual style of the film. It's a talk heavy picture, but the cinematography carries it quite well along with the performances. And yes Mayo, Charlie Kaufman DOESN'T care what you think.

[@davidbullen1966]

Put off watching, partly because of this review. Eventually watched and found it interesting and involving. Adaptation was my favourite for a long time but I think that comparing the two, this latest shows Kaufman maturing as an artist (and I can remember very little about Spotless Mind except for the cleverness of its central idea). All reviews are subjective to a certain extent but this seemed biased against the movie.

[@pshearn4253]

The film started out intriguing and unsettling, but morphed into something that was surreal and detached. Like Kermode, I found it was challenging without offering any substance. A difficult watch without much to offer. Bring back the old Kaufman of Adaptation.

[@brianchristopher3816]

I liked it a lot. Most of all because it took such a left turn at the end. I kept comparing it to The Shining. The blizzard and freezing conditions. The fantasy sequence. The focus on the snow covered car. In The end the heroine dies. Not a spoiler because nothing is explicitly stated. I'm glad it was ambiguous. We are left to decide for ourselves. But I have no doubt something very sinister happened.

[@TheRockerX]

huh?

[@MLElf]

Ah man, I love you guys but this film is amazing , I could have sat and watched them talking in the car for hours and hours, not knowing what was happening and which direction the convo would go in. That was the whole point. Kept you on edge! Until the dinner scene which reminded me of eraserhead. The drive back was also awesome, the end was just nuts! And why the hell not.

[@jamesbaxterfromax]

I felt like it hard a lot of heart through the parents scenes. I found them very sweet

[@triquepersonalwork6369]

This movie was great, I got misty eyed during the part when the girl was talking to the old janitor telling him that their interaction didn’t matter to her. It was like he formulated all of these fake ideas about her in his mind for his whole life, and nothing even existed. He didn’t even exist in her mind. Then, the part when the pig animation was leading him was symbolizing him being led into the afterlife. Not sure how that is how others interpreted that part, but that is how I saw that.

[@lurcharoni]

Not a fan of Kaufman but this was mesmerizing ... just go in knowing nothing and it will suck you in. I have to admit I was thinking it's a story about the other character ... some youtube videos cleared things up afterwards. Worth a rewatch.

[@mattjames7386]

I think it's a very good film. But it is devastating and, depending on the kind of person you are, it will leave you feeling incredibly depressed and alone.

[@BaronVonPenguin]

Way too long and confusing for me. Her poem in the car set alarm bells off

[@halloweenfriday]

I’m Thinking of Ending Things isn’t Kaufman’s best, but it has a lot of interesting moments.

[@samfartson881]

Kaufman has set a ridiculously high bar so that didn’t disappoint me

[@cynicshminic]

If the movie left you a little cold I think the book will aid in terms of the two complimenting each other

[@alwaysknow3356]

One of the weirdest movies ever...I loved the dialogue earlier on, and the poem 'Bonedog' was immense. I was really enjoying this when it had a story, but when it segued into far out trippiness and reflections on the absurdity of life, it became too much. But life really is a bit like that. Oddly, I loved the musical ending and song. Excellent performances too - Jesse Plemons and Jessie Buckley were both brilliant.

[@Dippedwithsweet]

“Charlie might have thought it was clever “...

[@MmM-gw3lc]

Profoundly stupid thing to say. I’m loosing respect for these two.

[@daveteves]

He literally ended this movie with a round of applause.

[@highwind1991]

Synecdoche, New York was the best film of the 2000's decade. Ebert's review pretty much understood that. There's a sizeable amount of people in the film community that think that as well. It was a flop because of a lack of marketing and the studio not putting it on a lot of screens. Anomalisa was the best animated film of the decade.

[@charliepanayiotou4305]

Whatever one thinks of Synecdoche, it was never going to be a hit

[@dhan07404]

@@npe9483 as a huge Kaufman fan myself anomolisa is probably my least favourite of his films I love the idea animation and themes but I feel he already accomplished some.of it in synecdoche in a way I'm thinking of ending things is his best film since synecdoche to me has that same feel and writing to me that makes it incredibly interesting

[@nicheman3612]

@@npe9483 I thumbsed up your comment because of the first part. Although I definitely disagree about Anomalisa. Hopefully you will give it another chance one day.

[@nicheman3612]

Yeah I'm not sure you can just outright state it was the best film of the decade. It was certainly one of the most ambitious when it came to making a Big Statement about life, the universe and everything but definitely not without flaws. Sometimes people put a little too much stock what the intention of a film was rather than the actual experience of watching it.

[@imkitti1942]

I want to know what ppl think that read this book?? I wrote this before I watch each video cuz this is one of my favorite books, along w/ Foe, his 2nd novel.. This book is a literary genius by a 1st time author & got many deserved accolades in 2016. Reviews either hated or loved the book. I was excited when Kaufman wrote the script. Until Jake walks into the school, it stays true to the book & u don't even notice there is no score! (music) I have never finished a movie /series developed by Netflix. Except for this & it did have so many inherent flaws but I can overcome them to say this is the best project I have ever seen on Netflix First part, I was hoping ppl that didn't read said book knew how Kaufman's other movies plays w/ time & reality & the intent of confusing the viewer w/ a journey into a complex bizarre psyche. Also the way he uses long & wide shots to tell a story. My fiance asked if the janitor was Jake? I didn't answer & threw him the book. This book is a proverbial psychological thriller. Plus when you finish it, you ask..WTF JUST HAPPENED???!! The movie.. Obviously you notice how the "unamed girlfriend narrator" or wait..her name changes 3/4 times, then she may not even be there or she was there @ some point in time! Her job changes just as much. Obviously her viewpoints shift, are re-written, then erased. The beginning stays true to the book by the narrator saying multiple times I'M THINKING OF ENDING THINGS but what does she mean? It was seriously ingenious by adding.."David Foster Wallace" & his book Infinite Jest (who committed suicide & is called one of the most influential authors of the last 30 yrs & how his death is the story & not his work) You go from thinking of suicide to ending the relationship w/ Jake to maybe an ending of how she sees the world? She says..she grew up in an apartment, then again, she said multiple times she grew up on a farm. There are the unsettling things such as the basement, barn & picture & ofc the dog!!! There is not one frame that can tell us what year it is. The car they drive? The clothes they wear? The music they put on? What is real, a dream or a memory? Obviously everything til they leave the farm is surreal! The book, in plain terms was so much darker, weirder, scarier & so much better for telling the story of this human existence. Netflix didn't do justice to this book. But...I am still thinking about it a days later.. Then I watched it 2 more times til I figured out the ending & I finally did! (Jake, the janitor committed suicide in the car & the animated pig took him to his afterlife) It does try to show that time moves in one direction and memories move in another direction. It does ask the question..Does anything really end? Do our opinions really matter? It doesn't mention anything about mental health or issues the narrator may or may not have .. He does have multiple personality disorder & the book is basically written from the notebooks they found by his dead body. They didn't show how Jake became the narrator & his memories of how he met the girl & wished he gave her his number. The movie does this elaborate dance where as when I come to that part in said book, she hands the janitor a picture Jake's mom gives her as they leave the twisted farm & she realizes the picture is him & bleeds out by stabbing herself in the neck & turns into Jake again. ( the viewer may not understand the protagonist is only Jake & he is the only one in this twisted story) You end the movie not knowing if Jake is said janitor but if you read the book, you know. As I mentioned before, the book is more like life...Darker, Weirder & oh so much scarier. Personally I like life better that way! Edit...FINALLY I WATCHED A VIDEO BY A CRITIC WHO READ SAID BOOK! Post edit..I had to look u up & I am changing my comment. Yes, u may have read the book but you really didn't answer any questions that the viewers might have had. I saw a review on one of our products & you sir are an idiot! I inherently agree w/ u abt the ending of the book. I was almost furious the 1st time I watched the movie because how he changed the ending! I work for a PC company. I am getting ohh so tired of watching humans that think, just like social media pages, just because they have a voice, they think they have this perspective viewpoint & take assumption that their conclusion, has to be the right one!! It's a crying shame! I liked Kaufman's book. Yes, if you read THIS book, the ending of the movie is a huge disappointment. Considering I never thought this could be made into a movie, I think his 20 page uncut dialogs was brilliant. It was his script & his movie based off a beloved book. Critics like you is why I don't have social media anymore. After my first credit, I was left crying @ ignorant humans saying evil s@@t. They know absolutely nothing abt. the process. Just look at the results & sometimes don't watch every episode!

[@BrendanBlake42]

I love that Mark is just trying to defuse the situation between him and Kaufman here, and Simon having none of it

[@rmilrta]

The length of the talking in car scenes was kind of part of the point of them. And I love talking scenes. There doesn't seem to be much in this review other than "I thought it was indulgent", "I preferred the way the book ended". I'd like critics with the immense film knowledge of these guys to be a little more specific about what didn't work and why it didn't work. Because the techniques of this film were pretty specific. Also, Simon's comment basically that it was only Buckley's performance that gave the film a heart? Maybe that was why she was cast - an artistic decision? Of course the girl is the heart of the film in a way, given what we know it was about. (I know someone else was going to play the part but the same thing will apply there.)

[@jacob8949]

Amazed to hear this described as "indulgent" and "intensely annoying", because I absolutely loved it! Bit worrying really... maybe there's something wrong with me? 😁

[@Conked_]

Nahhh, everyone's allowed an opinion. If you thought it was great, then why care if they didn't?

[@unhallowed45]

I thought I didn't like this, but I've seen it 4 times already, so I guess I do like it. I'm pretty sure that this is the kind of detachment people of age deal with everyday. It taps into things like regret and all the scary things that come with it. Good flick.

[@lewatoaofair]

Mark is probably right that his scripts are, objectively speaking, better when filtered through the eyes of another director. However, I also think that they're less interesting. Less wild. It's funny to hear Simon talk about his experience of being bored to death by the scenes of the two main characters talking. I found it riveting. The way the dialogue interweaves and gets interrupted by the internal monologue, and the atmosphere of the car and house, the great performances from the two leads, the whole thing. The only time I paused the movie was to google Pauline Kael's review of Woman Under the Influence, to confirm a suspicion, lol.

[@judekristo]

Why is it that people like Kaufman, whom kermode admits is a genius, gets flack (from more than one person about more than one film) on being self indulgent for his conversations and yet Tarantino (who I don’t dislike by any means) gets praised for the exact same thing? I don’t think Kaufman, since synecdoche, is trying nearly as much to pull your heartstrings... is that really so bad? Would people say any of those things about filmmakers like Mike Leigh or Michael Haneke who attempt to push boundaries in film? Just sayin’.

[@tanver1443]

I think its more about the content of their movies. Kaufmann deals with existential crisis and has in most of his movies independent stars and not star names things that audiences don't connect with in general. Tarantino gives what the blockbuster loving public like and has star names. Also in Tarantino's last few movies he deals with horrible historical events but changes the ending so the antagonist doesn't get the last word. Mike Leigh with his movies creates them from ground up. He works the scripts with his actors. Haneke feels like a smarter Von Trier, both deal with provocative works but Von Trier becomes obsessive with the content.

[@ilash81]

Um, have you heard most of Mark's Tarantino reviews? Gives Tarantino a free pass on self indulgence, he really really doesn't.

[@judekristo]

@@ilash81 wasn't talking about Kermode, I don't watch all of Kermode's reviews, some of what was said reminded me of other reviews id seen, but in any case fair enough.

[@judekristo]

@@tanver1443 I agree that Tarantino uses big stars but that definitely wasn't what Kermode was saying and having a big star doesn't always have to be the difference between the audience connecting with the character and not. But you are right in the sense that unfortunately more people want pure escapism than anything even remotely thematically difficult nowadays (it would seem). And I'm not sure why you gave little summaries of directors whose work I'm familiar with already, (or I wouldn't have brought them up). I wasn't comparing them in any sense except that they are directors whose movies push their audiences (as I think I already mentioned). but I guess now people scrolling the comments have a vague idea of who those people are for context...

[@tanver14]

@@judekristo haha I just started to waffle on after making my initial point. Was waffling about Mike Leigh and Haneke just in case someone else replied to you and was being ignorant of who those 2 individuals were. Lots of people I've seen online praise Nolan and Villenuve but need to know that there are more directors out there that are great. Just like when people think of South Korean cinema they only think of Bong or Park. There are other great directors such as Lee Chang Dong and Kim Ki Duk. I know Kermode is not a fan of most of the recent work of Tarantino. He has said on numerous occasions that Jackie Brown is the best work from Tarantino.

[@GolazoDan]

Really enjoyed this review. Mark does a great job of explaining why a film didn’t work for him but a lot of those same points wouldn’t be negative for others who liked it more. I can’t disagree with much of what he said but I think I liked it more than him. I can also see why Simon bounced off it completely. There’s some challenging aspects but the incredible performances (which everyone seems to agree with) make all the difference. There’s a fine line between “artsy” and “pretentious”, YMMV on where this falls.

[@omgsolikevalleygirl]

There are some aspects where this film really succeeds, the core moment being the encounter between Lucy/Lucia and the Janitor in the school. Definitely made me feel like I was awake at 4 am in the morning even though it was only 7 pm when I watched it. But something broke down at the end with the ballet and Nobel Prize scenes - those seemed like cheap knock-offs of the style of Kaufman's (or even Gondry's) earlier films. Also - the final scene in the car broke "immersion" for me completely.

[@badboy14132]

The Nobel Prize scene is actually A Beautiful Mind's ending word per word. The ballet is from "Oklahoma!" the 50's movie, which was referenced earlier in the movie. I guess same with the movie the Janitor was watching, these scenes where movies that the janitor watched and absorbed into his imagination.

[@omgsolikevalleygirl]

@@badboy14132 interesting! I love A Beautiful Mind very much but did in fact not recognize the scene - the old people makeup on the audience looks very artificial - as if the entire movie was turning into a highschool stage play... possibly a metaphor for the way the janitor's mind is breaking down... it requires a lot of not taking what you see literally, a little like Kernmode says: rather cerebral as opposed to visceral. Still not sure what to make of it, even though the more I think about it the more i admire the unapologetic darkness and audacity to inflict all that on an "unsuspecting" audience.

[@arblankenship54]

Honestly the fact that that guy just said that the movie felt “self indulgent” is a moot point. Kaufman makes it clear with all of his work that he is self indulgent. Also, maybe you connected more with eternal sunshine because there’s something in the thesis that connects with you. Mental neurosis is very close in my family and on that point it was very personal so maybe change your perspective a bit before you say that this is a “boring” movie.

[@DoubleFAqua]

As soon as I finished the film I sat alone for an hour reflecting on it, then I went to my sister and said regarding the film "it's admirable to experiment and be artistic, but how dare you be boring."

[@amugsgame9936]

That's how I felt about Tenet.

[@pamelaludwig5556]

I absolutely loved Synecdoche New York and having seen that one first, ITOET just seemed like a watered down version of that. Couldn’t really appreciate this one on its own because of that

[@elvatonegro4880]

I wanted to love this film because i love Charlie Kauffman´s work but i agree with Mark, i think its lacking a bit of emotional grip. I liked the perfomances, i think Toni Collete is a great great actress and i would have love to see more of the parents. Also the ending was very Lynchian to me, reminded me for some reason to Mulholland Drive but without the impact. Anyway, i still love Synechdoque

[@schmuck.on.wheels]

@@Rodrigo-bd5tz More Linklater than Tarantino to me

[@isabellagaskill7335]

If you want something that's more unsettling and less completely unhinged, check out the book the film was adapted from. The tone was consistent all the way through and it gave me chills. Honestly the book is creepier than the movie but its a good creepy.

[@omgsolikevalleygirl]

in long stretches, the movie also plays like one of the intimate existentialist plays of the 50ies/60ies - Sartre's "No Exit", Albee's "Who is afraid of Virginia Wolf", Harold Pinter's "A slight ache" and so on, to which it compares ... unfavorably?

[@ChicoCabra]

Maybe it depends on how close you hold cerebral things to your heart. I personally prefer the film to the book by far.

[@leilahouston267]

i liked it. it was odd. its like existence in every way and detached and leaves u feeling displaced ....if i wasnt feeling detached already so not quite sure where its left me. might watch it again. a maze of emotion , sensation, thought and references to texts ive either read or know about and keys that do and dont make sence . im kinda glad this made it to netflix.i even like thet text at the end thats too small and the out of focus image leaving u feeling that u cant see and are older and they talk all the way through about being able to see . and they are mostly in a blizard....ive not read anything about it but first thoughts are its about life , life as a journey, how we are trying to work ourselves out and much of this is done by how we mirror everything around us and we see us in other people also. i think he create s many possible endings and its not linear . as life is . but im gonna watch it again . life, the train , the car journey , other peoples lifes, including watching our parents grow old , references to school and the theatre - 'the play' 'the act', 'the lie' - its a blizard. even like the reference to women and men in films and esscially the film isnt about the couple. but will be perceved as such - and it is and yet isnt · i think there multiple things going on. whilst the film ended something else hasnt . 'im thinking of ending it' the irony..its an art work that needs re visting.

[@baldinggrey5368]

I definitely get what they mean by self-indulgent but I personally got a lot out of this movie. Not only this nightmarish surreal atmosphere but the thread of of identity crisis, constant need to name drop and define oneself through other people's cultural output and this relentless stream of time that has you constantly live in the past and fear for the future. I'm pretty sure Kaufman knew that parts of it would come over pretentious

[@ACey96]

I loved the film, but absolutely respect the opinion

[@DavidClucas13]

The performances were great, couldn’t get into this one much either though - didn’t really get what was going on and didn’t enjoy the ride.

[@PatrickTouma]

Wait, what does Kaufman think of Mark?

[@Fed804]

Mark mentions on the Podcast that Kaufman refers to Mark in a book as an asshole in some way. I don’t know much more than that tbh

[@attckonutube]

Charlie Kaufman wrote a book called Antkind about a miserable film critic who lives in a bizarre world. The film critic character in the book calls mark an asshole. I think he’s taking it way too personally. The film critic character also calls Charlie Kaufman an asshole at several points so I don’t think the characters views are a reflection of Charlie’s actual views.

[@orinG424]

I dont know how you can call this highly frustrating and self indulgent then lavish praise on TENET

[@thankskelley5543]

Anyone else resonate more deeply with the films Kaufman directed? As much as I love the films he's written, I feel much more connected to the like of Synecdoche, New York and I'm Thinking of Ending Things. This is probably my preference for a surreal, dream-like style of directing, but I felt like the voice and the appearance of these movies felt much more in sync. I certainly enjoyed the films he wrote, but the story and the visuals always had a little more of a disconnect to me.

[@duckarm6969]

Got to agree that some of it was a bit tedious - but wow! the creepy scenes blew me away. So horrifying!

[@bengreenyeah]

Agreed

[@VicenteTorresAliasVits]

I'M THINKING OF ENDING THINGS essentially has only 3 locations. 1 of them is the road, and this is where everything falls apart. The characters drive and talk about different topics. It allows viewers to have an idea of what kind of people they are, but not how they're feeling in the moment, making their exchanges dull. And due to them being inside a car, there's a limited amount of camera angles. It's not low enough to make these scenes visually boring, but it's not high enough for the shot compositions to look as good as in the other 2 locations, which are a farm and a school. Due to the ambiguous nature of the plot, the audience can't decode everything that's going on, but the focus on the characters' emotions (including the most awkward dinner I've seen in a long time) absorbs us into wanting to interpret the surreal elements. There's a man who gets nervous the moment someone talks about marriage, yet he doesn't seem to want to break up. There's a woman who feels trapped both literally (inside a house she can't leave, despite being in a hurry) and figuratively (in a relationship she wants to end, especially when she realizes what it would mean for her to stay by her boyfriend's side while he takes care of his old parents), resulting in her losing the grasp of time. There's a janitor who constantly stares at actors rehearsing a play. Is he longing for a happier life and a romanticized world seems like the perfect escape from reality? *Mild spoilers ahead!* That would explain why he also watches a cheesy movie directed by Robert Zemeckis. I was confused as to why his name was picked, since he's not known for making independent romantic comedies. Writer/Director Charlie Kaufman said in an interview that the choice was at random and that's why it's supposed to be funny. The problem with that is that we're talking about a parody. He should've either selected a filmmaker who specializes in the genre or one whose projects are the complete opposite. Robert is somewhere in between (he *has* made feel-good dramedies, except with big budgets), so the joke gets muddled. Also, the color palette and maybe other visual elements should've been different. You need to separate the film-within-the-film and the film itself, and giving them a different look is usually the best option. 6/10

[@raisedonpopcornwithgrant9670]

this is one of the rare times i sharply disagree with mark this is a terrific film and i agreed with his stances on last days and film socialisme but this film is so much layered it’s a film and it’s a stage play, a black comedy, a horror, a production of oklahoma! and a zemeckis rom-com all in one flick it’s so odd because his best of 2020 saint maud i adored and will most certainly put it on my best of for 2021 (it came out in the us this year) but this film i put on my best of 2020 i thought it was brilliant

[@samcohen99]

I love Kaufman's films so much but why does he give a crap what critics think?? No other filmmaker seems to care about them as much as him

[@looney1023]

We live in a world where a Rotten Tomatoes score is literally used to market a film. Critics have way more power and sway than they realize, and while there will always be audiences for each film, a good portion of the general public will decide what they want to see based on the consensus of critics, whether they realize it or not.

[@linkinpark4everize]

Where did you get that he cares about what critics think , did you just take Mark's word for it ?

[@samcohen99]

@@linkinpark4everize he talks about it in interviews

[@linkinpark4everize]

@@samcohen99 I've never heard him talk about it anywhere , link???

[@rosssquigham]

@@linkinpark4everize There's literally a recitation of Pauline Kael’s negative review, in The New Yorker, in 1974, of John Cassavetes’s “A Woman Under the Influence” in the film.

[@markwilliams3174]

I was disappointed too. Maybe in 5 years, it will be reassessed as a masterpiece. But not for me now.

[@TheT4xid3rmist]

My problem with the movie is it's designed for film and theater snobs. Anybody who is going into this movie just look at Jake as the main character going in and I think you'll get more out of it.

[@Superphilipp]

What a cynical view. Don't you think Kaufman just made a movie the way he wanted it to be?

[@TheT4xid3rmist]

@@Superphilipp I didn't say he didn't? Just saying there were a lot of references to film/theater that an average person might not get which makes it less accessible.

[@sb_dunk]

Stupid question: At 1:32, Mark says "if you're a genre fan...". Can someone explain what he means by this? Is he referring to genre art, or this particular genre? (Or something else?)

[@owenbuckley8716]

i think he means if your a fan of examining genre in film and the associated tropes you can kind of see where things were going from very early on. The whole couple on the verge of breaking up visiting an old home in an isolated area is a very common trope and you can predict a lot of the story beats to follow.

[@sb_dunk]

@@owenbuckley8716 Thanks, I've never really heard the word "genre" used this way, so jumped to thinking he meant genre art - i.e. it represents everyday life. ...The only issue being that no-one seems to describe films this way!

[@alexanderlangenberg201]

Markie Burnhope yes. Felt like The Shining.

[@drewcampbell8555]

I was drawn in by it. I love most of Charlie Kaufman's work - Synecdoche, New York being the exception - and Adaptation is one of my all time favourites. This won't be in any top ten lists but it's melancholic sense of defeat is compelling nonetheless.

[@fiazrahman4552]

I’m thinking of ending things is the newest Netflix film directed by Charlie Kaufman. This was a film I was very excited for, it had so many things going for it. All the talent in front and behind the camera and the story just looked fascinating. Did it deliver though, in short answer kinda but there’s more to be said. First of all let me just say how much I respect and admire Charlie Kaufman as a Screenwriter and even director. His work is always super unique, different and they seem to focus on characters that are well realized. I’m thinking of ending things though, feels like a 2020 Charlie Kaufman film monitored by Netflix where he is under restrictions on creativity and can’t fully express this story the way he would have liked. I know that this film is based on a book so that may explain why this story and the outcome of it all is so unfulfilling but it had so much potential to be something better. Let me just give credit where credit is due though, because there’s a lot of positives to I’m thinking of ending things and there’s no denying that. It’s a well done film overall, the way it was shot, the musical theme the film has throughout its runtime is pleasant and joyous, the acting from everyone is excellent but the standout for me was Toni Collette. She was always an actress of such range, where she is able to go with the characters she plays, her commitment and her performance here just gave me more respect for her. I’m thinking of ending things is a character driven film that prioritizes conversations that characters have with each other. It has a lot of dialogue, and there aren’t many locations that are explored. Most of the settings are in locations that are seen often and we’re supposed to get comfortable spending time in them. Since the film has so much dialogue it’s important for the screenplay to be strong. The screenplay is intriguing at times and I liked the tone of it all but I felt like what the film was trying to convey it didn’t do a good job of conveying. The first two acts of the film are great, I liked the setup, where the story was potentially going and how the film wasn’t afraid of not explaining itself. Let’s talk about that, how the film doesn’t explain itself. From the get go a lot of how this story unfolds is odd, weird, creepy and you have a lot of questions. That’s how we the audience relate to the protagonist because we're experiencing the same things and have the same questions as she does. So there is some sense and search to find out what is going on but I felt like all that went to waste in the clumsy third act. The third act didn’t wrap things up at all, but instead got more confusing, weird and I checked out. I’m thinking of ending things is a film with a lot of depth, hidden meanings and there’s so much more under the surface. I give it praise for not trying to go the straightforward route but with a third act that doesn’t care about giving the answers and explaining itself the outcome of it all made me ask what was the purpose of all that just happened.

[@Cyst11]

You should join Facebook. It's a great way to connect with people and get your opinions out there.

[@yigeren55]

i love Kaufman's scripts and I even enjoyed "Antkind". But this directorial debut is sheer self-indulgence, period.

[@ideologyideology2021]

this isn't his debut

[@williampb4166]

It's gonna divide people, people will say it's artsy, some will say it's pretentious. I thought it was okay but the acting excelled, the performances were really the only thing that kept me interested.

[@Azuwat]

I love all his projects. Not perfect but perfect!

[@joshuawilson8564]

Started off a bit cringey but got better, didnt understand all of it but could definitely see a decent bit heart in it aswell as art so i thought it was good.

[@mikegcopyful]

Just watched it today. This is perhaps the most spot on (with me, all subjective) review I've ever read.

[@friendlypup5650]

I loved it, but if you didn’t like Synecdoche, you DEFINITELY won’t care for this that much.

[@kikomaga1]

"Baby, It's Cold Outside" will never be the same after this film.

[@lockekappa500]

I've actually heard this impression of the song before, so it didnt come as much of a surprise. I think you really have to think of the context of the song in its current time tho.

[@iain2080]

Public reactions to films like this make me realise how impatient and ignorant most people are. Time, identity and death. This and Synecdoche are the best films on those topics in the 21st century. If you can't decode symbolism, fine. A sizeable amount of people who label these films as pretentious simply can't or don't want to understand them. It's trying to confront you with your own death and identity in relation to others and if either of those things can even be known or understood.

[@ItsHiatt]

Kaufman's problem is that is symbolism is obvious, not that it's too hard to unpack

[@iain2080]

@@ItsHiatt I don't see how it's obvious when the critics of his films never mention the symbolism, giving the impression that it was lost on them. If you looked at Twitter the morning the film was released there was an onslaught of people saying they didn't understand it or outright calling it a bad film.

[@ItsHiatt]

maybe if you're reading the layman's take. synecdoche NY comes across as baby's first film about death, the symbolism isn't mystifying and a lot of the visual metaphors are veeeeeery clunky and fall flat when brought to life. this new one has the same problems, Kaufman is far from a great director and doesn't know how to get his imagery to screen without it being stripped of any sort of cleverness. his images may be neat when written, but he has a big problem translating things to screen without it just seeming so on the nose. the last line of synecdoche maybe being the best example of an eye roller

[@iain2080]

@@ItsHiatt I disagree entirely. Once again we can argue on sensibility but it's not baby's first film on death seeing as it sails over the heads of most who watch it. It's a complex film and I think the visuals represent the ideas brilliantly. Even in the first scene the movement of time we pass weeks and months from sentence to sentence. The chair upturned outside among two upright, the missing owl clock with two others to represent Cayden being of his family but being seperate. The magazine about lung issues to reflect his wife's death reflecting the later line "the end is built into the beginning". No offence it sounds like you didn't like the film and implying the film was poorly made to fit your opinion. Synecdoche is many things it is not poorly made. If you think the films are overdone with symbolism that's fine but you don't have to think something is deep for it to ring true. We will die. He wants us to be brought together in confronting that. By doing so we may not he like Cayden or the Janitor in I'm Thinking of Ending things. We can lead meaningful lives and leave behind family or art which will effect people we couldn't even imagine, but we have to accept death.

[@choboutube]

I enjoyed it a lot, as I enjoyed Synedoche NY, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. I couldn't get into Anomalisa though.

[@toshcameron366]

I watched the film last night and i think i have to watch it several more times before im qualified to talk about it. These critics should really marinate on the material before plowing ahead with their review's

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

i think Synechdoche NY is a masterpiece. IToET is just too long. so many scenes outstay their welcome, and kill the excitement and momentum of the story. to sum up, "Yeah, whatever"

[@THEDONTTELLSHOW]

Can't wait to see this. Synecdoche was fantastic...didn't care much for that claymation one starring Hillary Benn though.

[@omgsolikevalleygirl]

i think Syncdoche, Anomalisa and Ending Things might be from the same "cinematic universe"

[@hunmiliengtipi9218]

Interesting.

[@crappymcdick]

How so?

[@hunmiliengtipi9218]

The Depressive Individual Cinematic Universe maybe, in short DeCu.

[@GiantSandles]

I think he's like Tarantino in that he's inarguably extremely talented but he does kind of need someone to balance out some of the excesses

[@zab416]

Good review. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. Seemed kind of like the poor man's Synecdoche, New York, which I do love though I sure didn't on my first viewing. Charlie would have to do a lot to make me lose my fangirl status for him, but I agree he's probably a better writer than director and this seemed kinda self-indulgent. It was interesting and engaging in a lot of places though.

[@sakurathornsickle5681]

Well all I can say is while listening the David Fincher’s commentary for Zodiac he inserted a very thinly veiled jibe at Charlie Kaufman and... I couldn’t exactly disagree.

[@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL]

fwiw it helps to have some familiarity with Oklahoma!.... Jud Fry character especially

[@Sarah06294]

I absolutely love this film. The scene at the ice cream shop was soo lynchian.

[@TheGreg_T]

The dinner table scene reminded me a lot of Eraserhead in a strange way

[@amugsgame643]

Mark is trying to seem objective but I think it is pretty obvious that himself and Simon dislike Kaufman as a person considering they have had some pretty awkward interviews with him in the past. I feel like Mark felt Kaufman was condescending towards him in the Anomalisa interview and it has stuck with him. If this film was written and directed by someone like Jennifer Kent, I have no doubt Mark would be praising it a lot more.

[@harveydean7952]

I was a big fan of Kaufman's off-beat spin on romance themes up to Anomolisa. That film was cynical and sneery and had none of the redeeming charm and underlying optimism of his earlier work. Syndoche was a tipping point of sorts, it was a study of sadness but it still contained an element of compassion. Anomolisa and I'm Thinking don't. I utterly hated this new film. I havent detested a movie this much since David Lynch's Inland Empire. He's another director I really admire, Elephant Man & Straight Story are two of my all time favourites but with Inland Empire Lynch seemed sadistically intent on punishing his audience. I'm Thinking is no different. Its relentlessly tedious and wilfully obscure, an utter chore to sit through.

[@PrenticeSummerscales]

The British film critic fraternity seem to have taken this film into their hearts. The BBC Culture page, The Guardian, Time Out, The Telegraph, The London Evening Times, Empire, Scotsman, The Observer, New Statesman, Financial Times, The List -all positive. And in the negative column you've got Kermode and The Daily Mail.

[@rtl4x4]

at 1:58 he says something like "if you're familiar with things like ..." but what's next? Squid Life? Can someone clarify?

[@Eddydowd]

He says 'It's a Good Life' but I suspect he meant the film 'It's a Wonderful Life' as they have a similar theme

[@rtl4x4]

@@Eddydowd Thank you! That makes sense.

[@m.j.nicholls]

Simon Mayo watching this is, in the words of Stewart Lee, like a dog listening to classical music.